Not sure I can do this any longer~~ | ADHD Information
Hang in there. You've come so far--know inside that you are perfectly designed to help him when practically no one else is. He doesn't sound like he can live without you. Do you ever get a break from him at all?This is very obviously a much more extreme situation than Terri's post represents. My heart goes out to you DEVOTEDTOYOU. Your child is obviously very troubled, and you have done our society and your son a great service by adopting him. I know you did not realize the problems that would ensue, but this child .... no matter how he ultimately turns out ... will be a better citizen and human being because of you. If you ever need someone to communicate with when things seem too much to bare ... you can reach me at Nova135@aol.com.
Oh I complain alot, but I'm a stay at home mom, so he's in school all day and I guess that's a break. I just feel sad that the mornings are he** and we no more than get home from school when he starts.. and I dread it so much. There is NO time I can say that we actually enjoy each other. The times that he's NOT being a butt head, I'm on the lookout as to why not. What's he done THIS time? How do any of us get into this position? When my oldest son was killed and we decided to adopt, there couldn't have been a happier mom than I was. It was the ONLY justification that I could find for the senseless death of our talented, kind, loving son at such a young age. I only want ds to be a happy, fun, loving little nine-year-old. I want to laugh again...with HIM. It seems like everything is so hard for him and in turn, for us. I feel like a nag, but if I don't nag, he does absolutely nothing, and I mean nothing, for himself. I just plain adore him and I get so angry that it feels like he's not doing one thing to try to help himself. How will he ever be an independent soul? If we could just go one whole week with kind things to say to each other I'd faint. We can't go two hours....! OK, now you all think I'm a crazy lady. I'm not crazy, just sad that our family is going through what it is....and that I see no end to it. I'm not sure the family will remain in tact......I realize this may be a bit off, but I don't suppose he feels compared to or can't compete/be as good as your first? I've heard that kids who're adopted chronically feel this way & are always out to "prove something"--like making sure they make the parent "hate" them before the parent "decides to stop loving them"--kind of like a pre-emptive defense mechanism. I, in all my ADHD Glory, used to do this to my boyfriends at school--I know it's not exactly the same thing by any stretch. This seems so stereotypical I'm almost embarrassed to post it, it's just what I've heard more than once. Even when the child didn't know they were adopted. I just feel badly for your desperation & want to help. Keep praying!This was explained to me early on when the ODD became so severe. They told me it's like an adrenalin rush when I react with venom. All I can say, is that when this has gone on and on and on, I get tired of him NEVER learning that is NO way to talk to anyone, particularly an adult. He couldn't care less what the punishment is and lots of his punishments, punish me. He has zero friends, and I don't blame them. ALL the teachers know who he is, so when it's time for school to start I feel like they say, "OOOHHHH, NOOOOOO, NOT him!!" It's too bad that there are so many uneducated about this disorder when there are so many who have it. WE are not bad parents........but we are blamed as such.I know that for kids, it looks different than the adult pattern, but I don'tknow much about diagnosis in adults. In kids, it often shows up as
aggressiveness and irritability instead of the swings between depression
and mania that are typical of bipolar in adults. My son was diagnosed
young (at around 7 -- he is 16 now). Like most bipolar kids, he was
originally diagnosed as ADHD.devotedtoyou.....im sorry to hear the problems your having im from perth WA im not sure what resources you have where you are but my 7 yr old was diagnosed with severe ADHD and ODD (oppositional defiance disorder) my husband also has ADHD my daughter has been on meds for 2 yrs and apart from concentrating more at school and no impulsity she has had more problems on meds than off i go to many seminars in perth and im not sure if youve heard of rosemary tanock but she is a prof. in adhd and many other things i believe the meds for adhd interfere with the ODD and make kids worse i was given a book and audio video to watch called 1 2 3 magic and its the best thing ive read or seen i do hope this info is of help My son was dx severe ADHD/ODD when he was four, he alsmost ten now. The meds aren't working much anymore. If you say "No!" to him, you'd better duck! I don't know if he's bp or not. He also doesn't fit the "lows" of traditional bp, but manic 99% of the time. He has VERY high energy! He's now being evaluated at the Childrens's Hospital in Houston. His second appt. is Oct. 4. I pray whatever their dx, it's correct so we can get on with a life of some sort.i hope oct 4 is the day when you find out what the problem really is..
[COLOR=GREEN] I find myself using my husband as a threat to my
daughters like at night when they won't get in bed/go to sleep/be
quiet--"Do you want to do what I say or do you want DADDY to come in
here?" I find it very wrong to threaten like that (as if I'm useless/have no
power) but I keep doing it anyway. I really dislike instilling fear in my
kids--especially of their father--someone please tell me this is okay![/
COLOR]
As a dad, I can tell you that this is not good any time. My wife did this a
many years ago when our sons were small. Unfortunately, the bigger
problem is your comment of your husbands' temper. It may be that you
are trying to keep them quiet to stop them from irritating him. This was
the case in our home. He needs professional help, as I did. In my case, my
anger issues stemmed from long standing depression brought on by the
frustration of living with ADHD. One thing that is puzzling about
counseling for thosee with add/adhd is that since it is something "new"
and "exciting", it (the attention deficit) sometimes masks the ability of the
counselor to discern whether the causes are depression, ADHD, or other
things.
This disability is frustrating for the loved ones as well as the one for
whom it is a constant companion. [QUOTE=apprehensive]Yes, the less is better. They even say sometimes that having too much stuff can trigger the bad behavior for kids - especially ADHD kids, because they "don't know where to start" or are overwhelmed, with all of the stuff. It's like they need the peacefulness of a nice, uncluttered room.[/QUOTE] Yes, yes, yes--the less the better. Uncluttered space definitely leads to a less cluttered mind & thoughts. Lower frustration level to follow. I realize the room-clearing is to be punitive, but in case there's a different opportunity maybe there's a chance to help him organize his surroundings/stuff in his room. The prospect of a yard sale to sell his things might be exciting (the prospect of earning some money) albeit an organization nightmare, or perhaps playing on their compassion & donating toys/clothes to Katrina Relief. My kids love getting into organizing their rooms when the mood strikes--I usually can't tear them away when their inherited hyperfocus kicks in. Buona Fortuna!I know this is probably not a good thing to say, but are you sure his medication is right? I mean, maybe he needs more, or another one? It also seems to me, and please don't get offended, that he acts up as soon as he sees you (which most children do) - does he act up like this at school, or only before and after? Have you taken absolutely everything out of his room? I know it sounds extreme, but taking things away from kids can have great, lasting effects.IN regards to that last suggestion (taking everything out of his room) - I saw a show on Dr. Phil - he suggested taking everything out of the room - I mean EVERYTHING - except his bed. And this worked for the family he suggested it to.... I know it's extreme but it may help, may not control the problem completely, but it may work a little... every little bit helps
The first thing I ask the kids when they come in is how was your day. If anything bad happened they let me know first off. Document what your kids also say. I do. I hug them and say I love ya. We then start afternoon stuff with a snack then the rest of what needs to happen. We do the best with time we have available. Same thing daily. It seems to give them time they don't have in mornings with me.
Our sons room only has what's needed now. The less he has the better for him.
Yes, the less is better. They even say sometimes that having too much stuff can trigger the bad behavior for kids - especially ADHD kids, because they "don't know where to start" or are overwhelmed, with all of the stuff. It's like they need the peacefulness of a nice, uncluttered room.dmbx3--just pray to God
. And stick to your guns. I understand about not having any energy left over for the "good" child. It's not fair, I know. But I accolade you for all your hard work & reaching out. Keep posting, different topics, getting suggestions. There's a wealth of ideas here. I just wish I had more. When I'm at the end of my rope & something is so desperate I don't know what to do, after I pray, I think of what could be worse: Being in jail & not being able to complain about how hard dealing with the kids is . . . one of them having an inoperable tumor . . . the house burning down . . . a disabling car accident . . . my husband losing his job--awful things like that. Scary sad, and I know it's a cliche, but things can always get worse, so sometimes I have to pretend what if they were just to appreciate where I am now & that I have the opportunity to do whatever it is I'm doing, unpleasant, depressing & frustrating as it may be.Taco: Thanks so much for the reply--i recognized my banter! I'm the one with the ADHD--my husband does have explosions although they seem to be far less often and as I gently talk with him about it afterward each time, he has been increasingly better. I tell him how it scares our twin daughters & he knows it. I was scared of my dad too, as a little girl, but I think some of that is natural. And my dad didn't explode the way hubby used to. I quit using him as a threat because it is technically speaking negative of their father & I know that is never good for a chid's self-esteem. Not to mention my daughters need to obey me & it's not fair to put the burden on him. Thx so much for your reply.I also have/had this problem with my son and I used to count to three or tell him multiple times. Now i count to one and each time I have to say2,3,4,5,etc....for each number he is grounded from something that he thinks he cant live without. It took a couple weeks to set in and it seemed to get worse b4 it got better. but wow well worth it. i now tell him to do something and he of course argues till he is blue in the face (odd as well as adhd) then i hold up my pointer finger and say one and he takes off running to do what i told him. we have draw backs about once or twice a week, but i stick to my guns. once or twice a week is nothing compaired to everyday.
hope this helps.....hang in there. at one time or another if we all are honost with ourselves we have felt the same way. Kudos go out to you for being honost with yourself and others.
[QUOTE=devotedtoyou]Oh I complain alot, but I'm a stay at home mom, so he's in school all day and I guess that's a break. I just feel sad that the mornings are he** and we no more than get home from school when he starts.. and I dread it so much. There is NO time I can say that we actually enjoy each other. The times that he's NOT being a butt head, I'm on the lookout as to why not. What's he done THIS time? How do any of us get into this position? When my oldest son was killed and we decided to adopt, there couldn't have been a happier mom than I was. It was the ONLY justification that I could find for the senseless death of our talented, kind, loving son at such a young age. I only want ds to be a happy, fun, loving little nine-year-old. I want to laugh again...with HIM. It seems like everything is so hard for him and in turn, for us. I feel like a nag, but if I don't nag, he does absolutely nothing, and I mean nothing, for himself. I just plain adore him and I get so angry that it feels like he's not doing one thing to try to help himself. How will he ever be an independent soul? If we could just go one whole week with kind things to say to each other I'd faint. We can't go two hours....! OK, now you all think I'm a crazy lady. I'm not crazy, just sad that our family is going through what it is....and that I see no end to it. I'm not sure the family will remain in tact......[/QUOTE]
I have read all of your posts and I honelsty feel we are living parallel lives. My son means so well, you can alsmost see how he cannot control himself. Teachers have told me that it looks as though he could jump from his skin. I am so afraid that all of the embarassing things he does and says and impluzive actions he has, will hurt him in time. He says he never gets invited to parites, he does not. Kids do not call to play. We may call them. He is disruptive in class and like you, I find it near impossible to praise him. Am I supposed to say, "oh , good job crossing the street." That is so gay. Anyway, I do not need to tell our entire story. I feel he might have very high functioning autism, I have taken quizes online. 2 neurologists said he was not autistic, just has sever adhd, ocd, anxiety, and snesory integration. It seems no punishment matters to him. the only thing that calms him is video games. he is a different kid on meds then when off. I am rambling. we are currently on focalin XR 20mg. We were on 27 mg concerta. It was not working anymore. the problem is on the concerta going higher we were afraid he will not eat. he is very thin, not evern 60 pounds and he is almost 9. He is very slight. SO we have tried 2 strengths of concerta now focalin, we tried adderal many years ago. I am at a loss. he also started taking zoloft. that seems to be doing okayu. I also do not like the fact the the entire home is disurpted whenever he is around. my girls hardly get any attention at all and the attention they do get is the left overs when you are dry with emotions. what oh what can I do. I want to help him so bad. It pains me everynight.
Oh, there's no doubt that he saves the best (worst) for me. He always has. The very first child psychiatrist we went to when he was four years old, told me he lets his hair down for me after keeping it together for everyone else, because my love for him is unconditional and undying. I'm glad he knows that, but in the meantime he's about to do me in. PLEASE someone tell me that if nothing else, maturity will make his behavior a little better. If it only gets worse, don't bother to post! I can't take any more!
I never, ever, ever go back on one of my threats. If I promise it, ya can take it to the bank! He KNOWS how consistent I/we are. It's like he's just asking to be punished, though I know he's not. I don't know how his mind works!!
devotedtoyou,
How much worse would he be if he didn't have any meds at all. Are the meds making things worse or better? Just wondering.
Devoted To You,
One last thing. How do you respond to his behavior emotionally? I REALLY think ....this is definitely true with my dd..... that many ADHD kids are willing to suffer any consequence in order to provoke a parental ...or other... meltdown. ADHD kids are constantly searching to stimulate the frontal lobes of their brain. Its like a surge of drugs. Your emotional meltdown .... if indeed you are reacting like that ...... stimulates him. He is seeking it and needs it. Like an addiction. If you continue to deal out severe consequences, but with NO emotion, after a while he may not be so quick to provoke. Just like an addict will stop injecting himself if there are no drugs in the syringe.
Hi, Everyone. Today was a little better. I took meds to be given to ds at school TWICE. Isn't it awful that there isn't a medication that works well enough on him that he doesn't have to do that? Besides that, I've been pretty numb today...wondering why all of us have to do this at all. I know ds needs me, and I need him, too. I just wish needing him wasn't so difficult. Having had two older children, I know what it's like to have a "normal" child and how much fun it is and being a parent wasn't so difficult. Oh, we had our times, don't think I don't remember that, but it was over in a matter of minutes. If either of them disrespected me, they paid the price! DS doesn't CARE if he pays the price. Maybe tomorrow will be better yet. Thanks to all of you for helping me hang on for one more day.......I pray Oct. comes soon and that we get a more definitive dx so we can get on with our lives. NO one should have to live like this day in and day out. Thx for posting--you're doing a great job. Day by day & all that--keep praying. I swear to you it helps.Abso-freakin'-lutely. Nice photo, Todd--I had a cat named Sh*thead.Well it could be worse. You could be living in New Orleans. Unconditonaluv--right on! Good for you! I hate to agree with you as well, but if my husband wasn't so scary (to me & my kids) I sometimes wonder whether they'd ever listen to what I say. I'm glad it's not atypical that the man has to be the mean, hurtful, scary monster & the mom might have more empathy or compassion. I guess that's why God put us together. I find myself using my husband as a threat to my daughters like at night when they won't get in bed/go to sleep/be quiet--"Do you want to do what I say or do you want DADDY to come in here?" I find it very wrong to threaten like that (as if I'm useless/have no power) but I keep doing it anyway. I really dislike instilling fear in my kids--especially of their father--someone please tell me this is okay!Devoted To You,
I was just wondering. How does your son behave at school? Is he out of control there? How do THEY deal with it. It sounds like (and I may be overreaching) he is reserving his worst behavior for you. Is this correct?
I've had similar problems with my dd. The one thing I realized is that the only way to begin to get her under control is to make consequences IMMEDIATE and severe. BUT, always react calmly. I sense that she almost self medicates by seeing me lose it. And she strives to get that reaction from me ... and is willing top take the consequences to get it. Almost like an addiction. Again, IMMEDIATE and DRACONIAN consequences .... but stay CALM. And once a punishment is given .... NEVER go back on it. Hope this helps.
Sage advice.Yes, Nova135, I guess I was just running out of things to say for support--see my previous posts, please. Thx!
Dear Devotedtoyou:
I feel your pain--honestly. My son will be 11 on Tuesday and I too have been dealing with his foul moods for about 9 of those years. What really gets to me is when he tells me that I don't care about what happens to him when I do everything and anything to help him. 
I hate to admit this (because my husband and I have debated about this for years) but my husband's harsh tones and sometimes spankings have kept him from really going over the deep end--I think he would be ten times worse if my husband hadn't been so strict with him. But of course now we don't spank him because he is a little to old for that. If your son is on meds you may want to try vitamin supplements as well, I have had success with these. Now that my son is no longer taking meds. he has less "meltdowns" and explosive behavior. If you are walking him home is there anyway you can drive--get in and get out quickly. All we can do is hang in there and love our kids through the good and the bad. One last piece of advice--when I was young, my mom was a Karate instructor so all of us kids (including my adhd brother) knew that my mom could whip our butts good if she wanted to. We just had that fear and respect for her. So remembering that, I decided to show my son that I could "take him" at any time. at any age. One day he was being awful--saying rude things to me and acting like he wanted to hit me. So I pinned him down with a wrestling move and held him there for about 20 minutes. The whole time I told him that I loved him, deserved better treatment by him and won't put up with his sh**. Plus I told him that I could pin him down like this anytime anywhere. Needless-to-say, he has never tried to hit or push me ever again.
You know, lots of people say to reward the good.....I swear, he NEVER does anything good. Do I reward him for brushing his teeth after I've said "Brush your teeth!" five thousand times? No matter what I tell him NOT to do, he looks me right in the face and does it ONE more time.
His father is harder on him than even I am. Just tonight he's been grounded to the house and had to read his library book twice as long for treating me the way he did after school. But you see, this is almost an every day thing. It's been like this since he was TWO! It seems that no matter how harsh the consequences it never deters him the next time.
I hope no one thinks I don't love my son. I do. I love him dearly, but OMG, I have no idea how we're going to get through this. I worry that he'll treat his teacher, employer, his own family, this way one day. What kind of parents cannot pull their child up just a little in NINE years??? There's only one thing that has gotten better....he doesn't hit me any longer. He still swings, he just doesn't connect. I'm glad this day is almost over.....
Devoted, I understand what you are going through. I have a 10 yr old son, that has only been on meds for the past 3 1/2 years. He treated me just like yours treats you before that time. He still has his times, but he is much better now. Now, I am able to use taking things away and rewarding him for the good. Before he was put on meds, I didn't have a male figure around for him. His Dad moved from Tx to WA, and left us here. His Dad still to this day doesn't understand that he needs to be on meds to help not only with his mood swings, but to help him be able to concentrate on homework or at school.
When Cody started lashing out, it was hard to handle. I wasn't strong enough to bust him or even stop him from swinging. The only thing I could do, was to try to calmly talk to him (I know, how do you stay calm when your being yelled at and swung at). Eventually he would calm down. I am sorry you are having to go through this....I didn't have anyone to talk to about it then,,,,I'm glad you came to the message board...I know I wasn't much help, but maybe you will soon be rid of this side of him!
Good luck, and remember, God is always here to help us get through the hard times.
No matter what I tell him NOT to do, he looks me right in the face and does it ONE more time.Devoted2U:
It sounds like a cry for the security of boundaries. That's usually why kids push. Don't forget that you HAVE gone in a positive direction in the fact that he no longer hits you directly--that "lesson/habit" WILL sink in. Anytime you can see one positive habit DO try to reward it--even if it is brushing his teeth. Positive reinforcement can be a VERY powerful motivator. You'll have the assessment soon. Ask God to sit on your shoulder.
I have put ours in a physical restraint before cause all other consequences failed with him. To him they are a game. the price should be worth your childs mental and physical health, and inever said anything about giving him meat. im not a veg and don't think a
child should be either. they need to eat why not be healthySorry about misconstruing the carnivore in you. It certainly seemed alluded to. I only eat beef, seafood/fish & veggies--can't stand starch or fruit; makes me dizzy in about ten minutes. I thought that meat was technically (one of?) the "filthiest" things we could possibly consume.Has anybody talked to you about a potential diagnosis of childhood
bipolar disorder? This is often misdiagnosed as ADD. Talk to your doc
about the possibility and if he/she doesn't know anything about it (or
denies it exists) get a second opinion. There is a lot of information at
http://www.bpkids.org.My sister always thought I was BP, but I just don't recall any of the "lows", only mania/manic (?) highs that are quite constant, & I assume you need both to have BP ? I'm a super H (hyperfocus/hyperactivity) of ADHD. your child is drepressed. bring him to talk to someone. not drug him. take
the sugar, pop food colorings and artificial dyes out of his diet. you will
amazed in the next 2 weeks what happensDefinitely can't hurt. But I do tend to balk at the price of truly healthy food, if I'm honest, am willing to trade the time I would spend cooking from scratch to be with my twins, etc. When they are tall enough to reach the kitchen cabinet, maybe we can cook together. But just the thought of my youngest twin not eating a solid protein for more than two hours makes me cringe. Convenience certainly has become the hobgoblin of today/'s schedules.I do agree that there's no way Mac&Cheese could hold ANY nutritional value unless you're a starving child in Ethiopia . . . all useless starch & Get-Ready-To-Crash sugar.
I wrote earlier about Trileptal, my son also takes 600mgs all at night.
It has really worked wonders for him. Atleast he is undercontrol with his emotions and 90% better, then where we were a year ago.
I forgot to mention, this kid was so socially withdrawn, mean, nasty, and hateful while he was on the Adderall.
This school year is looking up, he joined a football team, fishing club, signed himself up for a hunter safety course, and had sleepovers for the first time in a year. This is the kid the school told me if he hadn't got it yet he would probably just be a drop out, remember he was only in the 6th grade.
He was on medicine that was suppose to help him focus, then in return we had a highly depressed, anxiety, adhd, odd kid. Who had never shown these issues until starting Adderall.
Things will come together for you and pray to god for help. Which I know you are.
Montana Mom
[QUOTE=LIVEADHD]
I wrote earlier about Trileptal, my son also takes 600mgs all at night.
It has really worked wonders for him. Atleast he is undercontrol with his emotions and 90% better, then where we were a year ago.
I forgot to mention, this kid was so socially withdrawn, mean, nasty, and hateful while he was on the Adderall.
This school year is looking up, he joined a football team, fishing club, signed himself up for a hunter safety course, and had sleepovers for the first time in a year. This is the kid the school told me if he hadn't got it yet he would probably just be a drop out, remember he was only in the 6th grade.
He was on medicine that was suppose to help him focus, then in return we had a highly depressed, anxiety, adhd, odd kid. Who had never shown these issues until starting Adderall.
Things will come together for you and pray to god for help. Which I know you are.
Montana Mom
[/QUOTE]
Wow, I would love to throw that back in the schools face or maybe you already have - that your son is doing so well! Very happy for you.
Thank you so much Worried Auntie, for your kind words:
You are exactly right: 
I should throw it back in there face, at the next CONFERENCE...
Not one call from the school this year and he has been in school for 3 weeks.
I was getting calls atleast twice a week or notes coming home.
The teachers need to remember they are only children, and when they complain about behavior, and you are being a responsible parent by bringing your child to the doctor for help, they have to remember there are side effects to these drugs,and not everyone responds to them the sameway, Family history has a lot to do in the genes. Not everyone is aware of the family genes and what could be lying in them.
Montana MOM
devotedtoyou, do what you need to do.. i do the same.. i let dd get her own breakfast and organise herself in the morning.. she has to wear school uniform and she is responsible for making sure that she has a clean one available.. naturally i will wash and iron it!!
don't give up though.. look at lillian - her son has come home with an amazing report, something she would not have thought possible a long while back..
i too feel like giving up and then i take a look at my child as she sleeps and realise that she is only a little child and that she needs me.. i have to be there for her..
believe me, it does get better.. i've seen parents who believed wrote their kids off, but in the end, as the kids got older and some maturity sunk in, the kids amazed them all..
Let us all pray that Devoted to you, can make it to Houston for the appointment on Oct 4. Hopefully the hurricane won't do that much damage.
Yes, what ever God's will is be done. He has that little boy in his hands & is in control of everything. Try to trust. Faith can be incredibly challenging to have, unless you've been privy to one of His miracles. 
Although, as ADHDers, it's typically much easier for us to have the childlike faith, because we already ARE so child-like to begin with.
fact, try to intimidate him. Be there for him, but at same time give him
his independance. Your son must have some wants and until he backs
down do not provide those material things. If he pushes, control him and
punish him if you must. It's a difficult road, but eventually he will grow
up and he will realize that all his difficulties will eventually get in the way
of where he is going. In fact, I had no idea what was going on until I was
a teenager and realized that I had control myself and change.
I needed a lot of independance of my own when I was young. In fact,
there were times that I could have been almost uncontrollable and no
matter how my parents dealt out the punishment, I did not care, I still
could not be controlled. But on the other hand, my parents never backed
down and continually told/taught me things about the good of the world.
Then...they seemed to stop caring. They left me to learn and take care of
myself. If they asked to do something, they left it up to me to do it. It
may take one day or two weeks, but I would eventually do it without
having them tell me again. Even if I never showed it, everything my
mother and father told me always somehow managed to stick to me and I
would remember it.
Try to appeal to your kid's conscience. Put him on meds and keep up
with him. Encourage him to pursue his interests even if it's a short term
thing. Never ever call him stupid, but instead tell him that he's a
intelligent person but he just does not show it. Make him believe in
himself and one day he will use that belief to overcome his own obstacles
in ways that you cannot help him with. Make sure he knows that you love
him. My mother to this day does not know how I was ever able to
struggle and get past some of my difficulties to get through highschool.
She could have never imagined how I even got myself into college and it
was without the help of meds (though I could have used some when I was
young).
Good luck with everything and I hope one day he will realize how hard
you have worked to keep on track and that you really do love him. Until
then, tough it out. Everything will be all right.
Hi,
I will be watching the post for this. I feel utterly terrible for you. I hope when you go to the doctor on Oct 4th you can get some real treatment for your son.
I don't know what kind of medicine your son is on. But if its a stimulant maybe this is just making things way worse.
My son had a terrible time on stimulants, and our physciatrist had to put him on Trileptal to even out his moods. (Trileptal is used for Bi-polar, ADHD,ODD-Takes at night, it causes sleepiness.)
They use this medicine in low doses as a antidepressant if they are unsure about family history. Nobody on mine or my husbands side is bi-polar, that we know of. We are not even sure about anxiety, depression...etc...nobody really admits to this stuff. Nobody on either side of the family will even admit about ADHD, except myself, but tell you what my mother, sister, brother and my nieces and nephews, all show strong signs of it. I am not even sure what is lurking on hubby's side, they have a few problems of there own, that nobody admits to.
My son was on Adderall XR, and the pediatrician kept raising the dose when I would complain about the crashing in the evenings. 20,25,30 mgs. Which in return I ended up having one depressed/anxiety kid, to deal with at night.
Son takes Trileptal to even out moods, on Concerta 27 mgs for ADHD. Physciatrist is wanting to try Focalin XR, it is suppose to be a smooth medication, who knows, I'll try it, but, if it doesn't work, my son will be back on Concerta.
I can only say, that I have been in your shoes, I to wanted to just run away, My husband even told me when it was really bad, that he felt like moving out. I told him you are a minute to late because my bags are already packed. It was so funny when I said, it. He looked at me and said, what? I told him I am a step ahead of you.
The school conference that I had by myself, hubby was working, was the worse school conference I could have ever imagined, basically they told me my son was a looser and if he didn't get it by now he would probably drop out. He was only 12 years old and in the 6th grade, for god sakes, ****plus he was sick with severe depression/anxiety caused by the Adderall**** the medicine that was suppose to help him focus. I just hate thinking about it. Its just awful.
I never thought I would ever have to take my son to a shrink, but as of right now, where I am today, It is the best thing we ever did.
I can only say, my son is doing well, not great, but well.
I will pray for you...
Montana Mom
Devoted to you---I have an adopted daughter that I love dearly but for years she acted just the way you are explaining is going on with your son. She was dx'd by a doctor put on a two medications....Trileptal (my saving grace for her) and Zoloft for mood swings. She takes 300mg in the moring, 300 mg in the afternoon of Trileptal and 25mg of Zoloft in the morning. The doctor says she can go up to 1000mg safely a day but we are uping her very slowly and only as she needs it. She has been at this dose for 1year and it is amazing the change in her. She may have a tantrum now and then but she is no longer hiting, biting, screaming, and breaking things. I know the patience you have to have to deal with a child like this....I'm sorry you are going through this. Sometimes alot of times i would just cry out to God. Have faith that He will see your family through this. Maybe you can talk to your doc to see if Trileptal would be right for your son. God BlessIs he on any other medication? Many children with ODD respond well to the atypical neuroleptics like Risperdal, Abilify, or Zyprexa (although Zy can cause pretty absurd weight gain and I would generally recommend it only as a last resort).
I know your situation seems to be very complicated, but I'm just wondering if the school you son is attending is able to meet your son's academic needs. I work in a very small school for dyslexic children. Many of the parents are so surprised at the change in mood after the child enters our school. The school anxiety is gone and the parents didn't realize that in the past, mood swings etc. were all related to their child being severely frustrated at their previous school. They knew that their child wasn't doing well academically, but didn't realize that the mood outside of school was directly related.
Some of the "craziness" after school could be a release of tension related to being in a very frustrated school environment.
Not the solution - Just something else to consider.
There is a program called Love and Logic. It has helped me quiet a bit. The thing I love about it is that it helps me to remain calm and sane.
The basic rules are - when things go wrong
1- Emphathize with the child
2 - Ask the child what he or she intends to do to make it right.
When you expect that the child will make things right and make suggestions to make them right, you are giving them the total responsibility for their behavior.
If they yell at you - leave the room. Tell them you won't talk to them when they are yelling.
When they break something - ask them how they intend to pay for it or to fix it.
I had a 16 year old slam a door and break the door frame. I remained calm. I said, "Wow," That's too bad. I hate it when I break things. How are you going to pay for that? Or I guess you could fix it with clamps and wood glue." The next day he was fixing it on his own. His self-esteem even improved. He told me years later that this event taught him a lot.
There are many examples in the classes I have taken that really help with children who are out of control.
Morning. I decided to write everyone a note and let you know that this morning was a nice morning for a change. I'm so NUMB that I'm not parenting my child much at home. I'm just plain letting him take care of himself. I get him up in the morning and then tell him he's on his own. He can make his own breakfast, or skip it. He can wear nice clothes out of his armoire to school; or wear play clothes that are faded, worn, or too small; bathe, shower, or smell; trash his toy room before school, or not. 'Don't care! It didn't go too badly this morning, but he didn't eat anything, only rinsed in the shower (no soap or shampoo), wore shorts with holes in them, but he did brush his teeth! Do I need to tell anyone that I'm just plain worn out?
All of you on this post DO give me reason for hope. By the time we have his appt. at the Children's Hospital in Oct., I might find out he's been on the wrong meds for years. Now won't that be awful? At least if he HAS been on the wrong meds and/or had the wrong dx, there will be reason to think there's something else that can be done to help him. Right now I feel like everything to do has been done and this is the best it gets (YIKES!). Thanks so much for getting in my face to tell me there might still be time for things to get better. It's so easy to start giving up as the years tick on.....
Incredibly sage advice. Thx for the suggestions!it is very useful to read these posts. my father's next door neighbour who is about my age (and is a sort of friend if i can put it that way --- just cos i have known her so long although i am not particularly close) but she has a child who is the BIGGEST brat. he is now 11 and i have to admit i laid it all at her door (or rather more at her husband's - cos he is an alcoholic and a very scary, violent man although i don't believe he is ever physically violent just mentally SO STRONG. i don't know anyone who isn't terrified of him btw and i thought it was the effect of the father that made the son so horrible but now i am beginning to wonder).
basically the child's symptoms are that he is:
a. violent
b. completely unempathetic to both children and adults; totally uncomprehending of how his unpleasant behaviour affects others; has ZERO respect for other people's boundaries and space (ie if some child says 'stop i have had enough - he won't stop!!! he will just continue and laugh like a sociopath) even though i think he wants them to like him.
c. gets frustrated really easily then angry
d. if you ask him why he did something violent or unfair - he won't answer, he will just shrug and turn away. he can be very sullen and irritating.
e. not particularly responsive to adults --- actually that's not entirely true for some reason every time he was around MY mother he tried to behave impeccably (so he must have some vague idea how) but the moment she goes - forget it.
this i vaguely understand because his father is SO unpredictable and constantly shouting so just to survive you would have to be able to tune it out.
f. has no sense of being ashamed of his behaviour or the fact that strangers look at him like he is a monster (me being one of them unfortunately!)
g. i think he is a bully at school but also bullied (i am not sure about that though) certainly he doesn't have any friends
h. he can be very affectionate, loving and considerate on rare occasions when HE wants to be. i also know he has tried standing up for his mother on occasion when his father is shouting at her. so there is definitely some real sweetness in him (i don't want to make out like he is all bad at all).
i. and lastly when he did manage to make one of my nephews laughed - he was so pleased he did the same behaviour again and again to make him laugh more. so he does WANT people to like him.
anyway whenever i am over visiting my father with my nephews and/or neices she always wants to bring him over too (sometimes drops him off and sometimes stays). it is not THAT often so i don't mind and i feel some sort of duty toward her as a. her life is even worse than mine - if that's possible, so it seems only fair to give her a break a bit and b. i would want a break from that kid at any given opportunity so i can't really blame her!
so the other month she comes over when i was there with my nephews and neices (to play) and dropped him off for a few hours. BOY, i don't want to be unsympathetic but -- what can you do when the child isn't yours to discipline it??? it is NOT my right to wallop him hard!
there is my five year old neice and he felt he was within his rights to bully her. push her around. so i would walk up to him and physically (but gently) remove him and say 'that's not acceptable with such a young child - would you prefer to play with me' (even though i sure as sh*te didn't want to play with such a bully either but it seemed the best solution!)
and again when they were swimming - he just had to get physically violent again, even with my neices(!), because he wanted to be first on some floating thing...
so i tried to take a different tack - with a little ditty which i couldn't remember exactly so it came out like this and didn't scan too well but:
"never hit a woman, never ever ever, not even with a feather"
making it light-hearted but re-iterating it again and again. don't think it made a blind bit of difference anyway!
i tried to explain that 'one just doesn't behave like that and he is old enough to know better by now' --- (and it slightly made me laugh because my neice whose English is a bit wobbly as she speaks French mainly) she picked up on his manners at lunch and went calmly, a 5 yr old to an 11 yr old, as he was eating with his mouth open "we don't do like that, Alex" and then imitated his open-mouthed eating!
the thing is - it makes him SO unbearable to be around. you feel like you are putting the other children in an unfair situation too (and then again, selfishly, you are completely paranoid that they will pick up on some of his behaviour too!)
i am sure there is a sweet kid somewhere deep, down inside.
do you think he has some syndrome? will he grow out of it as a teenager? i worry with that lack of boundaries --- and only thinking of himself with no understanding of rules that he will end up raping someone...
that sounds terrible but i can see it as a possibility if nothing is done.
the trouble is the mom has so many problems of her own i don't think she can think straight and having read some of the parent/adult postings here i would like to advise her if you all think he might be helped by medication.
is it medical or is it bad parenting
(because if the latter then i'll just keep my nose out of it --- but if he and she could be helped by medication i'm sure i could find a way to suggest it without being offensive or seeming judgemental if it might help them? specially considering my own ADD dx it could be easy to bring up)
chjones38621.7963888889
My personal instinct would be to reply that yes, it sounds medical (not that parenting doesn't have something to do with it). It could be ADHD. Actually it sounds like a severe oppositional defiant disorder (ODD), especially the anger, agression, and manipulation (sweet when he wants to be). In either case if the behavior is that out of control, medication is probably in order. But then sometimes I have a tendency to think that all problems can be solved with a pill, and that's not the healthiest outlook either. But it definitely sounds like there is something going on that requires psychiatric intervention. His parents are doing him a disservice by not getting him treatment. Now I've had my say, and I'll shut my opinionated mouth...
ok - that makes perfect sense. i didn't think it was ADHD on its own i kinda felt it was something a little more than that. thanks shakespeare (haha my fave name!).i don't know quite what they can do about a psychiatrist - my father lives in such an out-of-the-way place.
hmmm - tricky. ODD. ok. well its good to know. if it can help her and him i guess i'll just drop it into the conversation - thanks for your help.
WOW, I am new to ADHD, my son has not even been diagnosed yet, we are currently going to seek psychiatric help (thanks to tips from others on here) but I cant tell you how good I feel reading your post. THat didnt sound right, I am enjoying your pain is NOT how I meant that. I just mean that I am feeling the same way that I really thought tonight I was having a nervous breakdown. I could not stop crying and thought I was going to lose it. Reading posts on here is what snapped me out of it and made me realize more that I am not the only one. I am not a bad mother becuase I cant stand my son at moments! I LOVE HIM with all my HEART but at times- I too want to drop him off and just RUN. And it PAINS me to think that let alone admit it to others. Thank goodness someone else has said it first. I guess we all have to stick together and gather strength in knowing that the next day just may be a better day. LETS HOPE
I have two sons with ADHD and i have adhd also.
I was yelled at as a child and i can tell u that being harsh like that is not the answer, you have to look at the global picture. what kind of adult are u turning your child into, so to the person who was so rough about hitting, punishing, yelling - you need to get counseling for this very long road and perhaps you need some healing from your childhood. I would rather put my child on some kind of anti-anxiety drug that would calm him down than treat him that way.
My older son is multiplihandicapped. He was never on medication. My youngest son is 12 and he is on medication. They both had problems with anger management. I am a single parent. Sometimes these symptoms are from other things - not just the ADHD. Did your child start a new school? new teacher? did you move? divorce? did one parent move away? if parents disagree on the type of medication the child feels the rift and doesn't know what to do with it;
when you can't handle the situation with your child and u escalate in anger, tell your child you have to go take a time out and go to your room or bathroom or somwhere to be alone, in a few mintues you will calm down and your child will be so dumbfounded that u stayed calm, it will begin to make a diference. when your child hits u or yells and screams at you, tell him/her that they are abusing you and you will not have that in your home and walk away. u r the parent - tell your child that - i am the parent and you r the child. in your mind you see no boundaries to what your child is doing and they sense that, even though youre mouthing something, they can feel that you;re not sure of the rules or boundary lines or what they will do, with my younger son, i have had to tell him, if he spoke to me or hit me again i would call the police. and i meant it i would call thepolice.
but the child doesn't always need discipline for poor behavior, somtimes a hug and a "i'm so sorry you have to feel t his way inside. can u tell me what it's life? do u want to talk about it." You are the mom, there is no question. that is a givenand your child will know whether you believe it or not.
and i am very serious about the antianxiety meds. ask your doctor for something light and something that is good for that age group. if your child could feel good and peaceful, you would be able to work with him/her from there.
I do everything the night before because all I can do is go throught the motions in the morning--which is very easy if i have everything set out the night before--that time of the "day" when I actually have the energy to do it. And the quiet because the kids are asleep.[QUOTE=terrie]I do everything the night before because all I can do is go throught the motions in the morning--which is very easy if i have everything set out the night before--that time of the "day" when I actually have the energy to do it. And the quiet because the kids are asleep.[/QUOTE]
i do the same thing....if i didnt set everything out the night b4 he would never make it to school on time....not just causeof his adhd but because of mine also
Totally!I have an 8 year old daughter who has done the same things. First of all, I changed my attitude. I understand that I exist for the task of making her life better. First of all, I got her off of Adderall. It helped zombie her out for about 6 or 7 hours, but after it wore off each day it was worse than it ever was before the medicine. Prior to Adderall, she took Ritalin and Concerta.
I now have her take a natural herb called 5-HTP, under a doctor's direction. She is taking 100mg in the AM and 50 mg in the PM. We are gradually increasing her dosage. I buy this from a health food store. You will need to find a doctor who believes in natural remedies.
I now have her in a special education class at school. She needs the small class size with extra attention.
Other things I do. Before we go ANYWHERE, we review the rules......she is to stay with me, not talk loud, and do as she is told. This has to be re-inforced before going in our out of an establishment. An ADHD child needs immediate reminder of the rules.
An ADHD child has no sense of time. When I want her to do something, I give her a timeframe, such as I want you to go to bed in 1 hour. I then give her countdowns of the time remaining ever 10-15 minutes.
When she tells me she hates me, I tell her I love her more than anyone in the world, no matter what she thinks. Overtime, this has dimenished her outbreaks at me.
I choose my battles. You can't lash out at everything. Remember you have a good child, with an uncontrollable medical condition.
When she is doing difficult tasks, give a lot of breaks for time out.
Praise for everything. Make praise immediate, and have praise occur 5 times or more than reprimands.
Teach working for long term goals - trip to kiddie show, etc. - by using a chart with a special notation for each good day.....with final payout the event.
You have to love more than you thought possible. Remember your child loves you.......and really wants your approval - just like any other child.
Good luck!
i remember there was nothing that made me feel more guilty when i was young as when i was bad and my parents told me how upset they were.. i know a 9 year old can't sit down and talk too seriously (sounds like it's hard for him to sit down at all) but if he listens to what you say and he knows how sad he's making you, i would think he would at least think about it. i'm sorry this isn't much help but when i read your story i put myself in his shoes and if i am yelled at or in your case asked not to do something, didn't matter to me! but you're his mother and he loves you dispite his behaviorIts October 4th,
How is Devoted to you doing after the doctor's appointment in Houston, TX.
I hope all is well and your appointment was the answers to your prayers!
Montana Mom
traditional schooling(i.e. behavior mod/respect authority, oh and a little rrr) can build to explosion. until about age 7, i hear i was a terror. something caused me to withdraw about then, and instead left school mentally/emotionally to daydream worlds. learned rrr on my own mostly, or in first 5 minutes of class. authority never got my respect by having that position, usually lost it instead thru abuse of power(respect i give to ALL others. they can only earn its loss). try home schooling, or check out alt methods. most adders i know are far from stupid, no matter their self image!!!!!!Bump upwas that to me, auntie? if so, please cite msg, as went through all, and see nothing?i wrote a few weeks ago to this posting and i'm really not writing to this, i am actually writing to all of the posts regarding adhd medication.FOR ALL OF THOSE OF YOU WHO THINK THAT SWITCHING TO SOMETHING "NATURAL" IS BETTER FOR YOUR CHILD, PLEASE THINK AGAIN. ANYTHING, ANYTHING, ANYTHING, THAT CAN CHANGE YOUR CHILD'S BRAIN CHEMISTRY IS POWERFUL.
my bet would be with the prescriptions that have been studied and researched over and over again and are being changed according to information received from you and i and the doctors. just because your child may not be showing anything outwardly since you have made the switch, does not mean there is not something going on inside of him or her. adhd, or anything else that you or your children are being treated for, should be an open subject. you should ask your child how they feel. what's different between the medications. Most street drugs come from natural substances, please remember that (pot, mushrooms, hash) and many more that i'm sure since i'm 45 i don't know about. so are you helping your child or setting them up to think if it's a natural drug it's ok. children with adhd are more inclined to use drugs and alchohol if not treated.
somewhere i think we've missed the main goal: to allow our child(ren) to have the best mental/brain ability that they can have. it needs to be an open subject - not something we're ashamed of even in front of other parents whose children seem "normal"; we need to study and research on our child's behalf adhd and the fact that those who have it usually have something else with it, for instance depression. u need to have spoken enough about with your child, that you know when they are "off". childhood depression often goes undetected, and is often mistaken for ADHD. children in the age groups of 10-14 don't make arrangements to commit suicide, it's usually within 5 minutes of their thinking about it. This isn't about bashing medications. It's about finding out through your own research about your child's illness, looking into some of the treatments yourself, realize you walk on a different road and will be there forever - and so will your child. so we need to teach them how to walk that road successfully. and teenagers are even harder because their personalities are changing anyway.
forget about what went wrong, move on and try something else. ask your child what they are feeling - don't go by your perception - u will not learn who your child is that way and won't be able to perceive even the slightest change in mood which could indicate something is wrong. our part is to do alot, alot, alot of research and to get to know are children - we need to allow them to have a part which is telling us how they are feeling, what helps what doesn't help.
if you have a horrible experience, which i have had with both of my adhd children, seeking support to walk thru it is a good thing. allowing your child the same benefit is a good thing. and then coming together and talking about it is a good thing.
so please forget about bashing the medication, and realize that anything in natural form that can change your child's brain chemistry is extremely strong and has had alot less research. and allow your child to have a large part in their treatment - it's their lives. they have to live it. and do hours and hours of research - you need to even know when to direct your doctor in a different direction if need be.
[QUOTE=geopun]was that to me, auntie? if so, please cite msg, as went through all, and see nothing?[/QUOTE]
Geopun...I P.M.'d you ...I hope you don't mind to explain in detail what it means. I'll try again for other newcomers.
Many times newbie's ask a question and rather than the sometimes long task of answering it is easier to find a previous topic that addressed the issue. Rather than posting we just type "bump" or "bump up". Doing so brings the topic up to the top page whereas it may have been several pages back and nearly impossible for a newbie to find.
Devoted, are you still around? Has anyone heard anything from her? I just finished reading this whole thread and I am so sad for her.My 19 year old brother who died 2 years ago was the exact same way your son is. It had gotten so bad, that in his teen years he'd get so violent that we'd have to call the police . . He spent many a night in jail while the sheriff talked him down. Eventually, my parents put him in a place called Crossroads, pretty much a live-in center for psychologically ill people. He stayed there for about a month and cried every day to come home, but as soon as he did, all turmoil broke loose again. They sent him to live with my grandmother for his junior school year, and it worked wonders. He helped her out (she was at early onset of alzheimers at the time), went to school, held a job, perfect. He came home for his Senior year and problems again. His doctors eventually diagnosed him with ADHD, OCD, and Tourette's Syndrome. They also said being in a large family (11 kids) was hard for someone with all of his psychological illnesses, and that's why living with my grandma worked out so well. He didn't have to *compete* with anyone, didn't have to deal with mass confusion and noise that often goes on, and didn't have to deal with my Dad, who for some reason just drove him off the deep end. Also, this had provided him a chance to 'start over'. He was 200 miles from home and nobody knew him. He made new friends, even had a girlfriend. Life was going great for him. After graduating high school, he went on to college and was able to live a life pretty much like the one he had staying with my Grandma, and living away from my parents but close enough to see them often, he developed a good relationship with them. He had friends in college and was finally being able to do things. The OCD/ADHD/Tourettes were still a big hindrance, but without the turmoil of his home life he was able to manage them well. Also, forgot to mention, he had ALOT of problems in school, and not with behaviour so much as how other children treated him. HOw do the other childen treat your son? The boys in his class were too *cool* for him, and often picked on him, beat him up, called him a queer, embarassed him in front of girls, etc. They picked on him when he talked, because his favorite topics of conversation were computers, and they pretty much made his life miserable. One kid in particular had made it his personal goal in life to make my brother miserable. Not long after my brother died, an older brother of mine and a younger brother ran into the kid at a homecoming bonfire and beat the sh*t out of him. It was great. Anyway, kids with all of these disorders just feel so left out of life, so behind, they know they're not normal and they don't know what to do. I imagine your home life isn't so tumultous, but maybe school is? You said he has no friends -- are the kids mean to him? Also, his being especially mean to you, I don't think is anything against you. My brother was like that with my Dad, and my Dad was the one who always tried to help him. My mom was very mean to him and called him names and picked on him for being antisocial and "strange" and a "weirdo". My dad, who held him as he cried about how much he hated his life and wanted to die, was the one who, when these violent episodes happened, got the worst of it. It was like he felt he was so messed up and strange and weird and unlovable that he wanted his dad to know that too . . Didn't understand how anyone would stand by him.
Anyway, I think you're doing a wonderful job with him. I honestly don't know anyone else with the patience to not only put up with such behaviour, but to still care. My own mom was happy to drop my brother off at mental wards or on other people. You are a strong, wonderful woman.
When he died, his life was finally changing for the better. These things *do* get better, he just needs to know you're there for him.
Also, my son is 21 months old and he smacks and hits me when he gets mad. I just hug him and love him and do what I can to show him that its not nice. In my psychology class, though, I learned that the reason he does it is because he feels safe enough with me to show his frustration and anger. He just needs to learn that hitting isn't good and how to redirect that anger into something else. We could never *lose it* in front of our mom, cos she just didn't give two sh*ts. We acted like zombies around her. She thought she was the greatest mother in the world i guess because her kids didn't give her much trouble. We gave my Dad hell, though, and he was the one who tried to help us, despite working 60+ hours a week to feed 11 kids.
I sure hope things are ok -- your appointment was on Oct 4, thats my brothers birthday, he would of been 22. :(
I hope it went well, and I'm rooting for you, and my heart goes out to you. Please update soon and let us know what's going on.