By JOHN J. LUMPKIN, Associated Press Writer

WASHINGTON - The Food and Drug Administration warned doctors Thursday about reports of suicidal thinking in some children and adolescents who are taking Strattera, a drug used to treat attention deficit hyperactivity disorder.

Manufacturer Eli Lilly & Co. announced that a black-box warning will be added to the drug's label in the United States. Such a warning is the most serious that can be added to a medication's label, and similar warnings will be added to the drug's labels in other countries. The company said a study showed instances of suicidal thinking were rare.

In a statement, the FDA said it "is advising health care providers and caregivers that children and adolescents being treated with Strattera should be closely monitored for clinical worsening, as well as agitation, irritability, suicidal thinking or behaviors, and unusual changes in behavior, especially during the initial few months of therapy or when the dose is changed."

Eli Lilly said it provided the FDA results from Strattera clinical trials of 1,357 patients that found five youths taking the medication reported having suicidal thoughts, while none of 851 patients taking a placebo reported having any. One young person taking Strattera attempted suicide, but survived, company and FDA officials said.

There was no evidence of increased suicidal thoughts in adults taking Strattera, which also goes by the generic name atomoxetine, the Indianapolis-based company said.

"The actual risk is very low," said Dr. Thomas Laughren, head of the FDA's psychiatric drug unit. Despite the warning, he said, "FDA still views Strattera as an effective drug."

At the FDA's request, Eli Lilly will publish a guide for doctors and pharmacists to give to people who are prescribed Strattera.

The warning is the result of a larger FDA review of psychiatric drugs and their possible association with suicide, the agency said. Old drug studies are being reviewed for occurrences of suicides and suicidal thoughts. Last year, the FDA ordered warnings on all antidepressants that they "increase the risk of suicidal thinking and behavior" in children who take them.

Strattera won praise from some doctors and parents when it became available because, unlike Ritalin, it is not a stimulant, a class of drug that can be addictive. But its chemical makeup is similar to certain antidepressants.

A review of other ADHD drugs is continuing, Laughren said.

About 3.4 million patients — adults and children — have been prescribed Strattera since it became available, with Lilly officials saying about 75 percent of those taking the medication are children.

Dr. Harold Koplewisz, a professor of child and adolescent psychiatry at the New York University School of Medicine, said that 19 percent of all teenagers have suicidal thoughts, making "suicidal thoughts in adolescents part of the normal experience."

"There are 2,400 adolescents thinking about suicide for every one that commits suicide," he said in an e-mail. "We are talking about a medication that may make some children and teenagers uncomfortable, which is very different than a lethal situation like a gun in a house."

Still, he said, all children and teens taking psychiatric medication should be monitored.

Attention deficit hyperactivity disorder affects as many as 7 percent of school-aged children and 4 percent of adults in the United States.

Strattera's worldwide sales have dropped lately, falling 31 percent to $123.5 million during this year's second quarter from a year earlier.

Lilly warned doctors in December to stop using Strattera in patients with jaundice or who show signs of liver problems, and it placed a warning on the label and in prescribing information after at least two patients on the medication developed liver problems.

The company said Thursday it believes the drug is safe.

"While suicidal thinking was uncommon in patients on the medication during clinical trials, it is important for parents to be aware it can occur, and to discuss any unusual symptoms with a physician, " said Alan Breier, Lilly's chief medical officer, in a statement. "Lilly continues to view Strattera as a safe and effective treatment option, and those doing well on the medication should be able to continue their treatment with confidence."

Associated Press reporter Ashley M. Heher in Indianapolis contributed to this report.

FDA: http://www.fda.gov

Eli Lilly & Co.: http://www.lilly.com/

They said that they had no information about Straterra having this effect in adults. But that just means they had no adults in a study. When I was first diagnosed (at age 45) I was prescribed Straterra. I had several strange side effects. But after about two months of use, I started waking up in the middle of the night with strange nightmares. Eventually I started to feel desperate and began to wake up in the middle of the night feeling desperate and panicked. I started to think about dying.

I think this stuff may work great for some people, but it has a very bad effect on others.

ok - where in the study did it say nobody committed suicide while taking placebo?

[/QUOTE]

On Strattera's manufacturer's (Eli Lilly) own site? Thats the first place I looked to check it out.

http://newsroom.lilly.com/ReleaseDetail.cfm?ReleaseID=175142

"...In conjunction with a request from the U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA), Lilly submitted to regulatory agencies an analysis of adverse event data from its Strattera clinical trials database that identified a small but statistically significant increased risk of suicidal thoughts among Strattera-treated children and adolescents (5 cases out of 1357 patients or 0.4 percent vs. 0 cases out of 851 patients taking placebo)..."

Balanced may not post links to what he says, but he does have the facts straight as far as I can see.

Please note its .04, not .004 which I realise may well have been a typo or innocent miscalculation in your earlier post, but there's a rather large difference - so needs attention.

In reply to CSMommy

["You find me a group of 1000 that does not have 4 people with suicidel thinking."]

851 (study participants that were on placebo) is more than half of the Strattera-treated children.  So if its difficult to believe that anyone would find a group of 1,000 that does not have 4 suicidal people in it, particularly bearing in mind that these are children and adolescents with ADHD rather than any group of 1000, then the placebo looks rather promising as a future treatment.

Even without an expectation that 4 in any group of 1,000 people are going to be suicidal and going only on the study figures: 

If 5 out of 1357 children experienced suicidality on Strattera, then between 2 and 3 children at least out of 851 should have experienced suicidality on placebo.  In fact, if Strattera is an effective medication, then presumably those going UNmedicated should have experienced suicidality at an even higher rate than the group being medicated.

Presumably then, the placebo and its inactive components are effective in preventing suicidality (and should be used as treatment) or Strattera  causes suicidality. 

As far as I can make out. ?

[/QUOTE]

bump

ok - where in the study did it say nobody committed suicide while taking placebo?

[/QUOTE]

On Strattera's manufacturer's (Eli Lilly) own site? Thats the first place I looked to check it out.

http://newsroom.lilly.com/ReleaseDetail.cfm?ReleaseID=175142

"...In conjunction with a request from the U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA), Lilly submitted to regulatory agencies an analysis of adverse event data from its Strattera clinical trials database that identified a small but statistically significant increased risk of suicidal thoughts among Strattera-treated children and adolescents (5 cases out of 1357 patients or 0.4 percent vs. 0 cases out of 851 patients taking placebo)..."

Balanced may not post links to what he says, but he does have the facts straight as far as I can see.

Please note its .04, not .004 which I realise may well have been a typo or innocent miscalculation in your earlier post, but there's a rather large difference - so needs attention.

[/QUOTE]

First to start - sorry curus - I was actually referring to Balanced when I quoted his statements that we are killing our kids, turning them into drug addicts, etc.  My apologies for any problem this error caused you .  Sometimes I get the discussion I'm in slightly mixed together and I'll try not to in the future where you are concerned.  You do give alternatives and that's all I'd like balanced to do - if you plan to naysay - give these parents a choice! 

You are right - it was a typo and it IS .04 percent or 4 one-hundredths not the .004 or four one thousandths I stated.  I stand in error there.

I would like to state that in this survey, as in all surveys where a small group is studied and then extrapolated to cover the larger - there is a standard variance to cover errors in the survey - I don't know what this one's is (I looked - but can't see it anywhere), but usually its plus or minus 2 to 4 percent (depending on variables such as size, expected accuracy, age ratios, etc.) but not knowing how accurate they judge their own data I couldn't judge. 

I understand that you feel that ANY deaths that could possibly be attributed to a medication is unacceptable.  I don't like the idea myself.  However - the jury is still out on whether the medications in question ACTUALLY cause the deaths, or if the patient was suffering from a deeper psychosis that went either misdiagnosed or undiagnosed.  Even peers at equal level of experience in this field are not in chorus on this yet.

You might feel I'm reaching on this - but I also have a theory at the increase in reported incidence of suicidal thoughts and attempts since the first studies on this came about in the US.  No research is ongoing on this - but has anyone thought that perhaps these reports are being fabricated by parents wishing to bring class action lawsuits?  The US is notoriously litigious - and I would not put it past most of the parents reporting such incidences there as being capable.  It's a sad world out there.

Again - my apologies curus my friend.  I did not mean to bunch you in with the target of my ire when I did.  I will endeavor not to do this again.  You bring up good points and I'm glad you do.

[QUOTE=pastmember/Bren]Fda warnings are coming on all add/adhd meds. Stims will be can cause heart problems and even a stroke. Look into the cause of attention issue. Some are caused by seizure activity. [/QUOTE]

Yes they can.  And I agree with you about FDA warnings.   Its almost inevitable that they'll be given on all add/adhd meds in the not too distant future, just like they have on many other meds quite recently.  People are getting more aware now about what goes on.

Glen, thanks for what you said and its OK -  please don't worry about it.

We obviously don't agree on some things perhaps, and at times we can all 'lose it' in the heat of the moment.  I know I do sometimes and can be quite a pain in the ....  but when I do, I'm fortunate that people I know understand,  and its over as fast as its begun.

Best

[QUOTE=Davidornado]Hey, you're welcome!

I heard the square ones get $50.00 each in Japan! Wow!

Yeah, I was floored when I saw the stats on these studies. The other ongoing one is running at 98% still.

CvC could end up better than polio (which still flares up if not vaccinated for in Africa). I'd rather see all like Small Pox. Globally eradicated, except for the BioWarfare stockpiles in certain countries, like your southern neighbor... and northern neighbor... hey, you're in the middle!!!

Btw, it was one of the girls that found this article over in where' ya from. I thought the bashers would enjoy a new front. hehe.
[/QUOTE]

Even if they stay in the low 90s for efficacy - it's almost a record. 

Polio - wow there's one place George W. could be flooding money into.  If he paid for all of africa's polio shots - and sent UN forces over to get it done the whole continent could be polio free in a generation! But - there's no oil thar!!

Smallpox - yeah.  Scares the bejeezus out of me.  I just know that some bozo is experimenting with it to make some interesting bugs for us.  Can anyone say "The Stand"?  Not that they need the smallpox - there was a contraversial article in a science journal that showed how a modestly talented scientist could modify monkeypox or chickenpox to become a version of smallpox.  I had to shake my head and look twice before I got that one and the impact of it.

It's a good topic for sure.  Who knows - as they delve deep into our troubles they might find that many problems of the mind are viral in origin.  We'll see.

Glen, thanks for what you said and its OK -  please don't worry about it.

We obviously don't agree on some things perhaps, and at times we can all 'lose it' in the heat of the moment.  I know I do sometimes and can be quite a pain in the ....  but when I do, I'm fortunate that people I know understand,  and its over as fast as its begun.

[/QUOTE]

It's all good.  I like that you feel strongly about this.  People in the middle are either kidding themselves - or us about their true feelings.  We all have deep feelings - but it takes guts to lay it out for others to see - and take apart.

I'm all for warning labels, and for informing people about the hazards (and benefits) of any given approach to this.  I even endorse people to check out things as varied as you mention like meditation and alternative medicine (though herbalists lost my trust when a herbal company poisoned thousands when they bought siberian ginseng from russian harvesters that couldn't tell a poisonous local root from the genuine article! I believe it was the silk vine plant - but can't find the original article as of yet - but will!)

Anyway don't get discouraged at what you do.  It's always valuable to get all aspects of anything.  It's only when fear tactics and hyperbole is used rather than empirical science that I get really really pissed off!!!!

Immune builders?  Sadly - the herbs claiming to hop up your immune system are being proven to be far less than effective during tests in the labs worldwide. 

There are lots of regular foods that keep our immune system working fine.  I try - but it's a hassle and sometimes I end up getting more protein and fiber than anything else.  But I try!

My immune system is working overtime - it's one of the only nice thing about having allergies to dust and environmental factors.  Studies have shown those of us with hay fever, pollen and dust allergies tend to get sick from viral infections less than the general population - and speculate that it's the T cells in the body going overboard to protect us from imagined threats due to the allergen sensitivity.  So I guess the sniffles aren't so bad!!

What about garlic?

It also tastes good...

Garlic is ok - in small amounts.  I tend to sweat buckets at work - and that would include all the savories I eat during the day.  Not a good thing in an enclosed space let alone outdoors!

So - I go it mostly garlic free.  I don't take the pills - frankly my immune system is pretty good so I don't bother!

Every few years I get one of the lovely flus going around - but the last couple years I have taken my company up on their flu shot drives so I haven't gotten one yet (touch wood LOL).  So far so good!

Lots use it well - others not so much.

It works on a different receptor group in the mind - so I think some who have plenty of one will be helped by the other.  Trial and error like most meds.

It's like anything reviewed.  People eat out - and the restaurant is lousy - they tell all.  Restaurant is good and they keep it to themselves.  I think it can be like that - we tend to be more likely to voice criticism than to voice compliments.  Sad but true.

[QUOTE=juliemom]ANy positive reactions to Strattera?? It seems, for the most part all MED's get bashed, probably rightly so but is there any med that is well tolerated? We are trying strattera this weekend out of desparation.[/QUOTE]

As I mentioned earilier in this thread, my son is doing wonderfully on Strattera, has been for 2 years.  My son cannot handle a stim, but does very well on Strattera.  He is happier, sleeps better, gets straight A's, is more creative, better at sports, & handles social situations so much better on then off. 

Just to let you know, we gave him a month off meds this summer.  When we started up again, just like the very first time we started, my son slept through most of the first day.  After that it was smooth sailing.  Since it is a ramp med, you will see different (positive) changes in him each week.  For us, the 6th week the first time going on, & the 4th week were where he really clicked with it. 

I wish you the best.

I have been on Strattera now for about 2 months with good luck. Doc started me low and has built up to the 60mg dose. It has helped me and my family has even noticed it more than I have! I have been on the 60mg dose for about a week and a half. He wouldn't put me on the higher dose unless I could get my weight above 100lbs, which is a struggle for me. I have rheumatoid arthritis and low blood counts which adds more challenge.

I can stay focused better and the excessive hyperness has slowed down. I'm 43 and have been this way all of my life. (Was diagnosed by my daughter's nueroligist with it in the mid 90's but I never followed up on it. And, back when I was school age, you were labeled "hyper" and that was it!;-)

The main reason I agreed to give it a try was because it is non-stimulent and I am a recovering alcoholic (4yrs). So, of course I wanted to stay clear of anything with stimulants. I really haven't noticed any side effects (of course my appetite was already bad!) and am glad I gave it a try. It does take time so be patient and give it several weeks:-)

And, my husband says that I don't "squirrel cage" nearly as often.LOL In case you don't know what that is-just imagine a couple of squirrels chasing each other inside of your head! :0

Hope this helps. Take care,

mommabird

Staterra was given to him for concentration, but since it made the hyperactivity much worse, of course, it also made the concentration worse, and thus, was totally ineffective for us.

[QUOTE=pastmember/Bren]I refuse to medicate to help teachers out.[/QUOTE]

How about medicating to help children out?

[QUOTE=SBP0429]  He was in the process of getting off the medicine.  [/QUOTE]

I am so sorry for you & your friend.

What do you mean he was in the "process" of getting off the meds?  This is one of the few meds you can just stop without having to taper off.

What do you mean he was in the "process" of getting off the meds?  This is one of the few meds you can just stop without having to taper off.

[/QUOTE]

ABSOLUTELY NOT!!!!

Strattera is a NSRI...in the same class as Effexor.  You NEVER cold turkey an anti-depressant!

What do you mean he was in the "process" of getting off the meds?  This is one of the few meds you can just stop without having to taper off.

[/QUOTE]

ABSOLUTELY NOT!!!!

Strattera is a NSRI...in the same class as Effexor.  You NEVER cold turkey an anti-depressant!

[/QUOTE]

Please explain.

My son went off Strattera in June, cold turkey, for the summer with no problems.  He went back on in August, & it looks like we are going off again this month for good (his matabolism has changed so much & he would need too high a dose of Strattera to help him).  His Dr. looked it up in this big med book & it said you can just stop this med.  Any info I can show his Dr to the contrary would be helpful.  Thanks.

Oh, BTW he is 10 & on 60mg.

[QUOTE=SBP0429]Sorry, I meant that he was in the process of tapering off of the meds.  Sorry for the confusion. [/QUOTE]

No problem. 

Actually, this may help me, since I now know that having DS stop Strattera cold turkey may not be in his best interest.  I hope Tater comes back & helps me out with the info he/she has.

[QUOTE=Curious_Boy]This is my first time posting on an ADHD board. I haven't read all the posts in this particular topic, but I just wanna say a few things from the perspective of a 17 year old who has been taking ADHD medication for 12 years.

I was diagnosed at age 5 and put on Ritalin until I was about 11. Ritalin was great, but it killed my appetite. On the days that I forgot to take it, I ate like a horse. However, that wasn't why I stopped taking Ritalin; I switched to the newer Concerta because my doctor thought it would respond better to it.

I really like Concerta, it lasts 12 hours (give or take 30 minutes), and doesn't peak or anything; it's smooth throughout the day.

During the summer of '04 I was put on Strattera, as I wanted to just see how it worked. Don't worry, this was all handled very professionally. I don't want my casual references to "I was put on ___" to seem like I'm another statistic of overdiagnosed ADHD.

Anyway, for 9 or so years before Strattera I've been acutely aware of how my body reacts to Ritalin / Concerta on and off the medication. I can tell within 1 minute when the pills have kicked in (esp. with Concerta) and I can tell when they wear off. I know of the mild personality suppressing (more like numbing, a block without sharp edges) qualities of ritalin / concerta. Basically, I know how I respond to the medication.

Now, to the point of this reply: I reacted very poorly with Strattera. Within two days I had very awful mood swings. I was playing video games with  my dad, and he'd crash the car and I would just start screaming and crying. For a mature 15 year old, this was very abnormal. About 5 minutes later I felt very sleepy and I had a small nap. I woke up, told my dad I was feeling much better and then BAM I started crying again. I knew this wasn't me, and I knew this was Strattera.

When one is experiencing a medication-induced mood swing, one is aware that this isn't a normal reaction, but can't stop the overwhelming urge to cry or scream or smash the nearest thing in sight.

So I went back to Concerta, and I'm still on it today. Strattera just responded poorly with my body. Oh, and I don't remember the dosage of my Strattera, sorry. However, I'm on 2 x 32 mg Concerta today.

Sorry if this post is out of place or just like another one, I just felt like giving a lil anecdote of my experiences.

-Curious Boy
[/QUOTE]

Actually this helps. Did the Strattera make you very moody in the mornings?  My 6 year old is on it right now, and he is the grumpiest kid I have every seen.   He was on Concerta before, and it worked, then they switched it becuase he lost 18 lbs in less than a year. Then they tried Ritalin XR 10mg, and that mad him pick at his skin, chew on his shirts, and anthing in sight, on on his body.  Did you have this symptom?

Hi. I've never been on your site before but am at my wit's end. My daughter has been on Strattera since summer. One time when we were running low on it, she seemed to do worse, so we felt like it must be helping. This past month she has been more down on herself, feeling like she doesn't fit in,etc. the psychiatrist suggested we try Effexor. She was on it for about two weeks and started getting very arguementative, tearful, and despairing to the point where I called the doctor and we stopped it. That was last Friday. By Wednesday she was aggressive,verbally and physically aggressive. The doctor wanted to start her on seroquel and the fear is that she got worse on an antidepressent so she is probably bipolar. I started her on twice a day strattera with increased dose of strattera. She seemed to get worse. Last night she was so out of control that she was pushing and kicking at me at a school concert. My daughter is adopted and has lots of abandonment issues, but the mean and cruel things she is saying are so hurtful. She states she can't stop, yet at school she was able to be polite and friendly to her friends. When I read some of the notes here I realize it might be the Strattera. I am a registered nurse, but as a mom I am floundering. There are times when I cannot stay in the room with her. She scares me. Any similar situations?

Willie,

It's KathyB. Matthew (my 7 year old son) was put on wellbutrin because it can help adhd as well as depression. The stimulants his doctor tried him on at first made his anxiety much worse and he would have fits of rage. It made his depression worse too. Wellbutrin isn't an SSRI, it deals with norepinephrine instead of seratonin. When Matthew started backsliding recently, his doctor put him on an SSRI to go along with the wellbutrin (Matthew had been getting real aggresive and down on himself again). Now my husband is on this combo (he suffers from depression) and it does wonders for him, he is fine! So, I thought this will be great it will solve everything just like it did for his dad. WRONG!!! Matthew got more aggresive and down on himself. He had an A/B average in school (even with his inattentiveness, he's very bright) but started bringing home D's and F's . The second week he was on the SSRI he came home with 16 pages of incomplete class work!  Well, I found out from the doctor and the posings here that SSRI's are not good for bipolar patients. They rage or and/or cycle badly. So, now we are looking at possibly bipolar and now he is on a mood stabilizer to see if that will help. I guess that will tell the tale. But you've already read how the first two days have gone. His Dr. said it would be ok. to leave him on the wellbutrin because it is not an SSRI. About your daughter, Matthew pushes, hits kicks and yell at me too. However, I know he loves me very much. one of his biggest fears is that something bad will happen to me or his dad or sister (anxiety). When he is not having a fit he is so sweet. I know your daughter loves you too. But you are right that they can't control it. I try to talk to Matthew a lot about his feelings. He has told me that when he gets angry he feels like someone is stabbing him on the inside. He also said that "ever since the day I was born I wanted to kick everything in sight". He said, "even before I was born too because you said I kicked you when I was in your tummy!". I explained to him that that was something different etc. It must be so frustrating and frightening for these little guys. When your daughter sys or does something hurtful just remember that it's not really how she feels. Matthew has told me he hates me a million times and then turn right around and pick me some flowers from the yard! Also, Matthew has a big fear of abandonment too. He still sleeps with us. He is scared "bad guys" will come and get him at night if he is in his room and we won't know.

Your child may have anxiety too. It might NOT just be due to her being adopted. Hang in there.

KathyB

Sorry I missed all the replies. I appreciate your answering. It is 1230 here and my 5 year old is now in our bed...he has adhd too. I'lll look for further updates. sorry about the grammar. typing without my contacts in.

     My daughter takes a mixture of Adderall and Straterra and we have found no suicidal side affects.  I have known others who have had their children on either Stratterra or Concerta and they became very violent.  However both of those children were also diagnosed bi polar as well as ADHD.  So perhaps there is a corilation there.

     As for putting your child on meds.  I have to say that I am slightly offended by the way the statement is put.  We are all here to do what is best for our children.  Some of us choose meds and others take a more natural approach.  I don't think either way is wrong.  I have tried both.  And the meds seem to be what helps her the most.  Our daughter is not in school anylonger I home school her now and she still is on meds.  We tried taking her off but the truth is that school is not the only situation where children with ADHD have problems.  Without meds she can't function socially with other children.  Without meds even in a non traditional educational environment she can't learn.  It's when she is off her meds that she becomes depressed because she can't think, she can't learn.  Meds are not for everyone, but there is a population out there that have good success with meds and I don't think they should be judged for that. 

Good for you willie!!

Very well put.  And for a parent watching their child flounder where all you desire is they flourish it's not only frustrating but depressing and overwhelming as well!

Stratterra was designed, I believe, to allay the fears of the public due to this anti-ritalin backlash and create a non-amphetamine solution.  It's nowhere near perfect and can't help many - and now we are seeing more severe side-effects than ritalin ever had.  A few isolated injuries by MD's not diagnosing and monitoring and all children have to suffer - that's just obscene.

Glad to hear the positive side of your nephew.  Milk is no good for children (it was designed to make small calves into big cows not baby humans into adults) so that's always a good thing to do.  The Ritalin helps SO many - the anti-med people just don't wish to see that.  Glad you go through this with eyes wide open and are willing to try whatever it takes for your child.  That's admirable and I applaud you!!!

Hope you come back soon!

     I know that it's not possible for everyone to do this, but I have founf that homeschooling has worked very well.  I agree that the school expect the teachers to teach things just to past tests that get the schools a grade with inturn gets them more funding.  Meanwhile you have kids that are left desperately behind.  Our daughter had an IEP and would go to her IEP class for reading.  Well while she's at reading the class is doing math so when she gets back she has to catch up to that.  So what you have is a child who is constantly behind and trying to play catch up and will never be up to speed with the class.  Then they end up bringing all their work they didn't get done home.  It's insanity!! 

     You can effectivly homeschool a child in just three hours a day.  Which I didn't believe either.  But when you take out all the extra stuff and time spent going here and going there, and the distractions, you can get so much more done.  You can also focus on a certain area.  She is in the third grade and should be doing times tables according to her grade level.  But she is not ready.  She had yet to master addition when the school would have expected her to start multiplication.  And I think we all know that children with ADHD have their good times of day and their bad.  So you can tailor the times they do school work around their good times.  I never thought I could have done it.  And when I made the decision to try it I was terrified.  But it's really been great.  And I have learned so much too.  I totally missed the solar system in grade school.  Must have been one of those days I was day dreaming out the window.  Now I can name all the planets etc.  It's exciting to learn right along with them. 

i wish i had been home-schooled (excepting the social part) i just know learning one-on-one suits me as an ADDer down to a T. 

i think the only drawback for me might have been learning how to be sociable and all those things that you pick up from being surrounded by your peers rather than adults --- so i guess you have to be careful to make sure that the child also has adequate 'kid-time' with other children and learns how to interact because that can be as important as anything else in the 'real' world --- and it can be very painful to be an isolated 'weirdo'. 

but yeah, i think it is great you are home-schooling your child.  what a brilliant thing to do....

     I was also concerned abou the socializing until someone put it to me this way.  How does a child learn to be well rounded socially when they are only aruond other kids their age?  And, if you could sit down and interview all 20 or so kids in your child's class, how many do you think you would really WANT them to be around 6 hours a day?  Children can learn to socialize in many different environments with many different age groups.  It's not bad for children to socialize with adults, eldery, younger children.  If anything I think it makes them more social.  There are sports not sponsored by the school, but most districts allow home schooled children to participate in their sports. Tim Tivo recently was one of the most sought after college draft picks for football this year.  He lives in our county and has been homeschooled all his life but played football for the local highschool.  He had his pick of colleges and chose University of Florida. GO GATORS!!  Anyway, back to the subject, kids will get just as much social time, if not more productive, out of school as they would in. 

I also know hs kids can do more social wise cause they can go on field trips monthly with the hs coop. Hs allows a kid to go at their pace no one elses.

Meds don't fil gaps and just cause you use them doesn't really deal with the real issue. when Ld is a concern also.

[QUOTE=Curious_Boy]This is my first time posting on an ADHD board. I haven't read all the posts in this particular topic, but I just wanna say a few things from the perspective of a 17 year old who has been taking ADHD medication for 12 years.

I was diagnosed at age 5 and put on Ritalin until I was about 11. Ritalin was great, but it killed my appetite. On the days that I forgot to take it, I ate like a horse. However, that wasn't why I stopped taking Ritalin; I switched to the newer Concerta because my doctor thought it would respond better to it.

I really like Concerta, it lasts 12 hours (give or take 30 minutes), and doesn't peak or anything; it's smooth throughout the day.

During the summer of '04 I was put on Strattera, as I wanted to just see how it worked. Don't worry, this was all handled very professionally. I don't want my casual references to "I was put on ___" to seem like I'm another statistic of overdiagnosed ADHD.

Anyway, for 9 or so years before Strattera I've been acutely aware of how my body reacts to Ritalin / Concerta on and off the medication. I can tell within 1 minute when the pills have kicked in (esp. with Concerta) and I can tell when they wear off. I know of the mild personality suppressing (more like numbing, a block without sharp edges) qualities of ritalin / concerta. Basically, I know how I respond to the medication.

Now, to the point of this reply: I reacted very poorly with Strattera. Within two days I had very awful mood swings. I was playing video games with  my dad, and he'd crash the car and I would just start screaming and crying. For a mature 15 year old, this was very abnormal. About 5 minutes later I felt very sleepy and I had a small nap. I woke up, told my dad I was feeling much better and then BAM I started crying again. I knew this wasn't me, and I knew this was Strattera.

When one is experiencing a medication-induced mood swing, one is aware that this isn't a normal reaction, but can't stop the overwhelming urge to cry or scream or smash the nearest thing in sight.

So I went back to Concerta, and I'm still on it today. Strattera just responded poorly with my body. Oh, and I don't remember the dosage of my Strattera, sorry. However, I'm on 2 x 32 mg Concerta today.

Sorry if this post is out of place or just like another one, I just felt like giving a lil anecdote of my experiences.

-Curious Boy
[/QUOTE]

Actually this helps. Did the Strattera make you very moody in the mornings?  My 6 year old is on it right now, and he is the grumpiest kid I have every seen.   He was on Concerta before, and it worked, then they switched it becuase he lost 18 lbs in less than a year. Then they tried Ritalin XR 10mg, and that mad him pick at his skin, chew on his shirts, and anthing in sight, on on his body.  Did you have this symptom?

I'm so glad that I read all of this...I'm really new to the subject.  My 4 year old daughter was just recently diagnosed, and it was suggested when she starts school she should begin medication like Ritalin and the like.  I've started her on a herbal treatment, and have seen improvement, along with a no sugar diet. I will be very cautious next time the meds are brought up again, and will really research and think about it long and hard before I actually make up my mind.  I'm quite set against the medication, and after reading these posts, it just makes me more leary.

Thank you!

I'm so glad that I read all of this...I'm really new to the subject.  My 4 year old daughter was just recently diagnosed, and it was suggested when she starts school she should begin medication like Ritalin and the like.  I've started her on a herbal treatment, and have seen improvement, along with a no sugar diet. I will be very cautious next time the meds are brought up again, and will really research and think about it long and hard before I actually make up my mind.  I'm quite set against the medication, and after reading these posts, it just makes me more leary.

Thank you!

My 4 year old daughter has been taking two different kinds of supplements since she has been diagnosed that have helped her immensely.  The more information I hear about all of these medications, the more horrified I am becoming.  My daughter used to try to punch herself, kick doors, and since she's been taking these supplements, this type of behavior has stopped.  If anybody is interested in trying them in combo with whatever meds they are on, please email me for more information.  I'm not saying to stop whatever the doctor has recommended, but if something can help, I think it is worth a shot.  My email is sberard11@shaw.ca

My problem all along with our son is correct dx's. He has struggled in these areas language area,motorskills,social,academic. There are delays on all 3 areas. I had even a Ot tell me than your child is not adhd if these are what is occuring.

This drug helped none of this and from what Psm said it won't.

Straterra is a really terrible drug.

I am a happy, energetic woman; it was aweful.

Angela

Angela - I agree for those of us where hyper isn't our issue it seems to be like doping us up way too much.  Since it works on the epinephrine (adrenaline) that seems to be where you need the work or it's no good.

I say we stick to what works.  I think most of the Rx's for stratterra are from MDs who are so scared of the media's look at our meds.  They'd rather not give what works and hope that the hype doesn't hit them.

I won't go off dexedrine.  If they ever got it banned I'd be getting it somehow.  If it works then I say do it!! The only ones who should be on alternates are the ones where our meds cause them grief.

here's my story for strattera.  My son was on it for 2 years.  He is now 8.  the med worked great for the first 5 or 6 months, then we had to up his dosage to right around 30 something mg.s  then about 6 months later, upped again to 60mg!  Went well, but over time (so slowly) we didn't realize how the meds were not really working  Then he started getting into trouble alot at school.  So, about 4 weeks ago, we took him off it and put him on adderall 10mg XR.  Night and day difference.  But the withdraws from the strattera were horrific!  my little 8 year old was out of school for a week, was having thoughts of people killing him and him killing himself.  After 5 nights of pure hell, the thoughts slowly stopped.  Now he is back to his self.  with less meds and happy, and he almost never gets into trouble.  This is just our story.  It may not happen to any one else, but it happened to us. 

[QUOTE=oldtimer]I hear it is not working well in most cases. This came from a LD specialist. In our son it totaly changed him like what ogram experienced for her son. Ours even got mad and broke a window. Our issue on meds with our son has been usually how it works it ends up doing the oppisite effect. I am not hearing anything good about many of these meds. I am choosing alternatives instead. Working better . [/QUOTE]

the only med i was talking about is strattera.  i don't know about the others.  Adderall is working great!!

I am a 36 year old woman and was just diagnosed with ADD and am currently on Wellbutrin 300mg a day.  When I started Wellbutrin ( for depression ) , I began to feel normal and alive again.  However, my ADD was just out of control, so my Dr. put me on Stratera 40mg a day to start and then to go up to 80mg in a week.  I could not even get through two days!!!! I feel terrible, after 30 minutes of initially taking it.  I am in a sad, drunken state all day, I feel like I have a tight metal clamp on my head, my eyes feel weird, then I come home from work and cry and feel a huge lack of motivation.  I am not going to take it tomorrow - I know that some say to try and get through it for a few weeks, but I can't.  I don't even talk when I take it, I am like a zombie.  I am just going to take the Wellbutrin, which has worked wonders for me and hopefully, when I go back to my Dr., she will be able to do something different for the ADD.  Does anyone have any suggestions?  I am really concerned and would like to get these ADD symptoms under control (obviously without taken Stratera).

Thanks, Pam

I take Wellbutrin and Ritalina.

Love the combo.

Best yet.

FDA Urges Stronger Warnings on ADHD Drugs

WASHINGTON -- The Food and Drug Administration is calling for stronger warnings to discuss reports of psychosis or mania seen with drugs used to treat attention deficit hyperactivity disorder.

The FDA released an updated safety review of several ADHD drugs, including Johnson & Johnson's Concerta, Shire Pharmaceuticals Group PLC's Adderall, Eli Lilly & Co.'s Strattera and Novartis AG's Ritalin, which is also available as in generic form.

For the past year, the agency has been studying psychiatric and cardiovascular risks possibly associated with the drugs. The FDA review was posted to the agency's Web site yesterday in advance of next week's panel meeting of outside medical experts who will discuss the drugs.

Last month, another panel recommended that most of the drugs carry a black-box warning about possible links to heart attacks and strokes. Adderall already carries such a warning, discussing cardiac sudden death; Strattera has one about an increase in suicidal thinking. A black box is the FDA's strictest warning.

The FDA said stronger warnings are needed on the risk of psychosis, a mental disorder characterized by the inability to distinguish real and imaginary events.

"The most important finding of this review is that signs of psychosis or mania, particularly hallucinations, can occur in patients with no identifiable risk factors, at usual doses of any of the drugs used to treat ADHD," according to a memo dated March 3 from two members of the agency's ADHD psychiatric review team.

The review said current labeling neither addresses those concerns nor does it "clearly state the importance of stopping drug therapy in any patient who develops hallucinations or other signs or symptoms of psychosis or mania during drug treatment of ADHD."

The review found almost 1,000 reports of psychosis or mania possibly linked to the drugs -- which included Adderall, Concerta, Ritalin and Strattera -- from Jan. 1, 2000, through June 30, 2005. The reports were pulled from the FDA's database and from the drug companies themselves. The FDA had requested additional information from the companies for its safety review. Such reports don't necessarily mean the drug caused a problem.

However, the FDA said "in many patients the events resolved after stopping the drug."

The FDA also said a "substantial portion of the psychosis-related cases were reported to occur in children 10 years or less," an age group which the FDA said doesn't typically suffer from psychosis. It added: "The predominance in young children of hallucinations, both visual and tactile, involving insects, snakes and worms is striking and deserves further evaluation."

While the staff review recommended the issues be addressed in new labels, it didn't state whether the concerns should be addressed in a black box. Most ADHD drug labels, which are multiple pages written for physicians, do warn of the possibility of psychiatric events in some patients.

The FDA didn't release specifics on what the panel will be asked to do, such as addressing questions of how the drugs should be labeled.

But, Dianne Murphy, the FDA's director of the Office of Pediatric Therapeutics, said in a memo to the panel that the agency is "seeking your advice on how best to communicate potential risks to health care providers and parents when it has been decided a child would benefit from therapy for attention deficit hyperactivity disorder."

The FDA has been struggling to characterize the risks associated with ADHD drugs and how to communicate the risks to the public. The agency started a safety review of ADHD drugs last year after Canadian health officials temporarily ordered Adderall off the market after reports of 20 sudden deaths in patients, including 12 strokes. The drug later was returned to the market.

The number of psychiatric and cardiovascular events is small in comparison with the number of prescriptions. Information released by the FDA last month showed that 78 million prescriptions were written for ADHD drugs in children ages 1 to 18, and more than 14 million prescriptions were written for adults from 1999 to 2003.

Indeed, Lilly, which makes Strattera, and J&J said in documents that were also posted on the FDA's Web site their medications were safe and effective when used as directed, and they said the risks and benefits of the drugs need to be considered.

"Untreated ADHD is associated with severe consequences," said McNeil Specialty Pharmaceuticals, the J&J unit that makes Concerta.

ADHD is a neurological disorder in which people have difficulty concentrating or staying on a task to the extent that it causes impairment in academic, work or social settings. As many as 7% of U.S. school-age children are believed to have ADHD, according to government estimates. The disorder often is referred to as attention deficit disorder, or ADD, in adults.

Write to Jennifer Corbett Dooren at jennifer.corbett-dooren@dowjones.com

“Real knowledge is to know the extent of one's ignorance.”

Confucius

[QUOTE=IMac]Kara, if you are going to troll around leaving anti-med messages on message boards, could you please take the time to proof read your message?

The price of gas? There's a non sequiturs thread here:
http://www.adhdnews.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=18124& PN=1&get=last#199012
[/QUOTE]

Good one IMac.  

[QUOTE=kara]yes, our money in this country isnt going to be worth anything in a hand full of years due to insurance, medical and pharmicutical companys working together. im just saying that people are complaining about the price of gas, i can afford gas but what about insurance, doctor visits, & prescriptions. god forbid u dont have insurance. its a conspearcy.[/QUOTE]

Conspiracy?? Oh, geeze.

It is elegal for staff to recomend medication of anykind for anyone. These people are not a MD. Vitamins are needed by us all try this first and a healthier diet. We use phytonutrients with a long the Southbeach diet. This helps and makes a great difference in our son. Check for food related issues before adding medacines.

My issue is dr.'s gives this med. to easily.

Many things can cause attention issues.

We all are to get a Free appropriate education by law remember this also.We all don't learn them same way either so what works for some doesn't work for all. My opinion is a person should be in a education that fits how that person learns best. To me a iep is just trying to force a circle into a square.

I've just finished "getting clean" from Wellbutrin XL 300mg (medicated for 11 years) with (for the past 15 months) Straterra.

And I have to tell you that I knew I had a 38 and 2 bullets and am awful glad I lost the key to the suitcase they're in!

It's been an AWFUL three weeks and I am still telling myself that intellectually I know (I guess HOPE) I am not really depressed that this is really just a living night terror and all those thoughts are just hollograms of fright and they don't really exist.

I am fine (this is all relative you know) one moment and the next in the pits.  I see my shrink next Tuesday and hopefully we can come up with a better solution (medicinally speaking).

I went back on a VERY LOW DOSE (25MG) OF Straterra only because I couldn't stand the mental confusion anymore.

I heard that Provigil is about to be approved by the FDA for ADHD.

Hear of anyone on it for this?

[QUOTE=TCMG]I was surpirsed that the post from the individual known as "Anti Ritalin" was published here. No doubt you will call "Anti Ritalin" a "troll" and kick him out.  You will say things to discredit him. You will say he is using scare tactics when in fact it is logical to be quite afraid.

I posted my warnings here about how school officials are uninformed about how kids with correctable vision disabilities have the almost identical symptoms as those with so called ADHD. Please see http://www.pavevision.org/

People here thought  I was an anti medication predator.

I was a Mom who lived through a NIGHTMARE who wanted to prevent other moms from having the similar NIGHTMARE.

I hope that "Anti Ritalin" goes to EVERY SINGLE ADD and ADHD FORUM website and warns ALL the parents! I hope his posts do not get erased, but I think they will.




[/QUOTE]

TCMG, it's not about what she posted.  It's the fact that she put the same "cut and paste" on just about every board on this forum.  Then after that, she got reported for spamming, not for what she posted.  And the sincerity of it is not there.  she went from trying to inform, to scare tactics, then to name calling and being rude in less than 20 minutes.  Sorry that you don't see that is wrong.  I am all for Freedom of speach.  I'm not for people attacking others and trying to scare people.  Think about that.  It's not what she said in the first post, it's that she posted the SAME thing over and over again the attacked people for reporting spam.  Not every one has to agree to get along.  I'm just trying to be a voice of reason.  To be open, the thread is on the debate board, you should put this there.  Do you really think it's right to put the same thing on so many boards on ONE forum?  Then go from nice to mean is such a short time?

You have to make the best choices for your OWN children and not listen to other people. If you listen to everything in life you would never go out. I believe that people give they children ritalin etc after a great deal of thought etc and it is not something people go into lightly but they read PROPER medical websites and seek advice from dr's not from someone in a chat room style forum!!!!!!! Sorry to of upset anyone but that is my personal opinion as is the anti ritalin your personal opinion and if you feel free to state your opinion so will I.  

[QUOTE=TCMG]I was surpirsed that the post from the individual known as "Anti Ritalin" was published here. No doubt you will call "Anti Ritalin" a "troll" and kick him out.  You will say things to discredit him. You will say he is using scare tactics when in fact it is logical to be quite afraid.

I posted my warnings here about how school officials are uninformed about how kids with correctable vision disabilities have the almost identical symptoms as those with so called ADHD. Please see http://www.pavevision.org/

People here thought  I was an anti medication predator.

I was a Mom who lived through a NIGHTMARE who wanted to prevent other moms from having the similar NIGHTMARE.

I hope that "Anti Ritalin" goes to EVERY SINGLE ADD and ADHD FORUM website and warns ALL the parents! I hope his posts do not get erased, but I think they will.

[/QUOTE]

You miss the key points of trolldom in the postings.

Firstly - she (and that was what SHE was btw) didn't do any research.  She came in with no real idea of what to do and when approached with gentle hints and indications of what to do to stay civil she flipped.  Well I didnt' do that but everyone else did.

Second she brought out the ire in me and others by saying that ALL Ritalin use is harmful to ALL people ALL the time.  She used some crazy theory that benzene is released causing cancer.  As I and a few others pointed out to her it would be as likely to release benzene from Ritalin as to release chlorine gas from table salt.  In other words no chance at all.  Again - insults and denial were her way.

She came out in every thread in large font and capital letters (essentially screaming in internet etiquette) shouting that we were murderers and that she was certain that Ritalin caused her daughters cancer.

I don't shove people out of here for opposing viewpoints.  But that kind of behavior is totally inappropriate.  I'm sure if you step back and see this as a whole cloth you'll see that too.

Was not a personal attack on you - merely trying to keep verbose as I just cannot stand the threads where everything gets quoted word for word for page upon page.  Very difficult to keep scrolling for what seems miles of text.

People are being informed of the risks of Ritalin.  Every year now it seems to be more and more with black boxes, etc.  The percentage of deaths due to preexisting heart conditions hasn't changed but public awareness has - leading to press and people thinking it's an epidemic.  It isn't.

There is no link to cancer in humans and ritalin.  By now after over 50 years of public use there would be a clear path to follow and no way to conceal that kind of side effect.  Cancer is pretty hard to cover up.  This lady was not just weeping over her child (which I still have doubts over the validity as she kept mentioning she gave the child 10 years of Ritalin then suddenly came to the conclusion that it must be the benzene), but rather foaming at the mouth at others getting prescriptions for their children.  She went through the whole trollish grocery list - and her benzene obsession and pretty much alienated even those that wanted badly to be on her side.

As others have seen and pointed out this one was from an email campaign to quell pro-med support for ADHD.  They have been given a mandate to go out to the forums for us and attack in any way with any means at their disposal.  We've seen it before.  Seems also anti-ritalin is back with a more soft-spoken but almost word-for-word personna.

Everyone is entitled to their feelings and their opinions.  If she'd have come in and said "LOOK - HERE IS MY STORY" and left it at that we'd all have felt sympathy for someone in pain.  But she immediately attacked - and that just got me angry.  Not to mention my very high-tuned BS antenna was going into the red.  I still think she's a liar from the ritalindeath camp.

So sorry for trimming your quote.  But I'm not sorry for the one single word that angered this woman so much.  I was quite civil (more than I was for the other trolls) and gave her rope and sure enough she was hanging from it soon enough.

Glen!!!

I've visited ritalindeath.  Lies and deceipt make me physically ill.  It's a den of dishonesty and misinformation - hyperbole and diversion.

If it quacks like a troll and walks like a troll.....

there is no reason.  it's just to be a puppet.  i sure hope she never needs some thing for a head ache.  head aches are stress related in some cases, so aspirin can thin you blood and cause a bleeding problem.

Smells like a troll to me.  But that's how it works.  I have a poem too:

Roses are red, violets are blue,

you look like a troll and smell like one too.

how's that for talent.

[QUOTE=TCMG]OK. I should not have posted the poem. I took it from the website.  It was an expression of grief for a child who died from taking Ritalin at his usal dose.  It was maudlin.

You know exactly why I post here. I spent considerable time telling you but you erased it all.

I mean no malice. Peace be with you.  Pray for the parent named "anti ritalin" . He or she needs prayers.  What could fuel such anger? Pray. Meditate. Think. Read. Peace.

[/QUOTE]

then edit it out.  i didn't delete any thing,  only the admin can do that.  frankly, you have handled this better than most of the anti folks do.  But remember this is a SUPPORT GROUP.  the last thing we need here is people assuming that we don't know what we are giving our children.  You need to respect us as equals, don't talk down to us, it's insulting and wrong.  Peace be with you, also.  (you must be Catholic)

[QUOTE=TCMG]You cannot find my posts because they were deleted. 

http://www.pavevision.org/ 
http://www.blockcenter.com/


[/QUOTE]

and you wonder why they were deleted?  lmao

REMEMBER A CHILD CAN HAVE  SPECIAL NEEDS AND BE GIFTED.I SAW A BLIND/AUTISTIC GIRL PLAY PIANO.  WAS ON TV. BY EAR LEARNER. TRADITIONAL MEDACINE DOESN'T TREAT THE WHY.REJECTED MEDICAL DX. IS A VIALTION OF THE KIDS/PARENTS RIGHTS. IGNORANCE IS A LOT OF SCHOOL STAFF'S PROBLEMS. THEY WANT TO BLAIM IT ALL ON ATTENTION. YOU CAN LEARN NOT JUST BY A WORK BOOK METHOD. IEP'S AREN'T COMPLETELY FOLLOWED EITHER CAUSE THEY THE STAFF HATE THE MODIFICATIONS.iN THE FUTURE SE WILL ONLY BEFORE ONLY THE SEVERE DISABILITY KIDS THANKS TO OUR US GOVT. TCMG, SCHOOL SHOULD BE WHAT YOUR NUMBER 2 SAYS. WILL NEVER GET THIS WAY CAUSE THEY WANT TO SAY LACK OF MONEY IS THE ISSUE. NOT OUR PROBLEM AS THE PARENTS/STUDENTS. ALSO i HAVE FOUND OUT SIDE EVALUATIONS THEY IGNORE. BEEN TOLD THEIR FINDINGS IS WHAT THEY GO BY ANYHOW.

DAN DR'S WILL  SAY THE PROBLEM IS A TOXIC SOCIETY!

I SEE US LOOSING OUR RIGHTS IN BABY STEPS!

HIGH PRICES CAUSES A TUFFER LIFE ALSO.

GOVT. CONTROL I SEE COMEING UP ALSO.

I started taking Strattera today. I've heard and read good and bad with the drug but logically that's going to be the case with any drug that affects the brain. Especially considering the makers of Strattera and stimulants flat out say they don't know exactly how they improve ADD behaviors, just that they do.

I'm looking to improve my relationship with my family and my performance in everything I do in life. I've tried behavior modification, making lists, using a little voice to tell myself how to act in certain situations, and it has been a never ending circle of some days are good and some days are impossible (to concentrate and get things done). I'm very involved in my childrens' lives already so I'm not looking for a major change, just a way to cope with those times when the demands of five people becomes overwhelming.

TCMG, I tried to indicate that I've exhausted, I believe, just about anything I could do beyond trying medication without listing everything and making an internet post unbearable to read. I've observed people in my inner circle that have greatly benefited from ADHD medication and/or anti-depressant medication. At some point you have to make the decision whether you believe there is a physical problem that can be fixed by medication such as the flow of brain chemistry.

On the subject of an FDA warning, as an individual you have to weigh the consequences of your actions. If you go in knowing there is a possibility of negative side effects from a drug then you need to be proactive about monitoring yourself for this. From my research, I don't see the warning for Strattera being any worse than the warnings for any other ADHD or depression medication. That's my evaluation, but I'm sure other individuals may think differently.

Wow, my eleven year old son is on it and it has been the best treatment we have ever tried.  He went with out it for five days once because our insurance company took their time sending authorization to the pharmacy.  And during those five days he was really upset and started thinking about the fact that one day he will die and that really bothered him.  I dont see him thinking about suicide, he is scared to death of death.  We are christians so I kept telling him there is no reason to be scared....And I would have paid for the meds but the pharmacy advised against it said I may not be able to get reimbursed. since then I have made sure we call a week ahead to assure the pharmacy has prior authorization (auth is needed only every 3 months thankfully!) 

Oldtimer, oldtimer oldtimer... sigh

SOCIETY - that thing that keeps people from living in caves and beating each other to death for the next meal you know? - THAT makes boundaries and constraints on people that require us to meet certain standards and do certain things to keep the whole thing going!

If school was designed to be touchy-feely and be everything for every special student there would be only a few classes chosen - creative writing, art, and music.  For a society to stay solid and have educated people to be the next generation of doctors, scientists and leaders there must be required classes in very rigid methodology to make sure that the children get enough education to be able to take the reigns of society when it is their turn.

And that dig on medication that ALL medicine (oh sorry DRUGS) are dangerous and bad and have bad side effects is very troll-like and I honesty take offense to the entire tone of your posting.  As has been said here and elsewhere ad nauseum pretty much anything you breathe, ingest or rub on you potentially is dangerous to a part of the population if not all.  To just globally pooh-pooh the meds is ridiculous to a high degree.

The education system will never be perfected as it is ever-changing.  It's a far cry better than 100 years ago when a child with a learning disability would be locked up in a sanitarium, beaten to submission or worse sent off to work in a dickensian factory.  You constantly pick on teachers who are underpaid, work with 40 or more children with absolutely no allowable means of controlling them, and an underfunded supply budget.  They sometimes cannot afford simple primer books or even chalk for the blackboard.  Many spend their own money on supplies out of love for the children.  Yes that is such a bad thing oldtimer isn't it?

I have become terribly sick and tired of sitting by and allowing you to just prance around and knock anything that isn't herbalist-approved and be kept gagged silent from knowing you yourself have learning difficulties and therefore have limited understanding about everything you post.  Either learn about what you speak of or shut up.

I heard that it could cause your liver to fail and you could die from it. I don't know if this is true or not, but I did read about it.

Glen, I would agree with you. Whenever people make global statements like "all these drugs are" whatever then you can pretty much write off whatever the next statement is going to be.

There are very rare absolutes in life, and a person's decision to use medications to help themselves is really their own decision made with their doctor. It's like Tom Cruise's idiotic statement about antidepressants which was so publicized. These drugs do help a tremendous amount of people in this world. How can you knock that? If a person has weighed the risks and benefits of using a medication, their decision to use it or not is nobody else's business.

For what it's worth regarding Strattera, most physicians I've talked with about this drug are underwhelmed with its effectiveness. Personally, I think it's high prescription rate is as a result of slick marketing techniques for a crappy drug. But this certainly does not mean that it may not be helpful for a minority of patients.

When I took it myself, all it did was put me to sleep and I fell asleep in some pretty inappropriate places, like during my daughter's Tae Kwan Do lesson where I was supposed to be watching her.

I've been using Strattera now for a month. As far as ADHD symptoms, I feel when I start a project that I finish it. It's not magically making me do more, but when I decide to do something I don't get distracted by other tasks to a point where I don't come back and finish up.

As far as depression symptoms, I feel like I'm much more patient with my children. Once again, the drug isn't magically taking away unwanted feelings like anger, but it seems to be helping to control these types of emotions much better when I'm feeling overwhelmed. Before trying medication I've always attempted to control my emotions by telling myself not to start yelling just because that type of feeling was coming on. Sometimes it worked, but on a bad day this techinique had no hope of working. Now I feel like when I tell myself to hold back, that something kicks in to help me do it. That's the best way I can describe it.

This could all be a placebo effect of me feeling like I'm doing something about what I see as a problem, therefore I'm having success doing it. But a month is a pretty good length of period and so far so good for me on this medication.

• First a wandering eye. For example, when reading the left eye wanders while the right eye follows the sentence. The brain struggles to resolve the differing images from the two eyes.
• Second, a muscle twitch that affects focus. When reading, the page slips into and out of focus.  
• And finally, an eye movement deficiency where the eye struggles to track things leaving visual gaps.

Is there any evidence of how many visionally impaired students are diagnosed as adhd? Does anybody really know that there is an epidemic of people being overdiagnosed with ADD/ADHD? I'm glad there are people who will question remedies that they think could be harmful. But just because medication for ADHD and the diagnosis process has come into question doesn't necessarily mean that medication is a bad thing. Is ADHD overdiagnosed, maybe. Are drugs as a way of treatment overdiagnosed, maybe. I think most of us have considered alternatives and have not made a choice for ourselves or for our children without much thought and research. Maybe I'm lucky, but I have a third grader with impulsivity and concentration issues but haven't had a teacher suggest drugs yet. I don't think every teacher or even a majority of teachers suggest drugs for children they don't think will benefit from it.

As for teaching methods, most of the "alternative" methods we're talking about come down to a major point: more one on one time or smaller group teaching. If anybody's answer to this is to 1. pay teachers less so we can hire more 2. raise taxes to hire more teachers or 3. continue to gripe about it without a real solution of how to get there (applying alternative methods) then that person's throwing useless words out there. Teachers should not get paid less, if taxes are raised it doesn't mean teachers will necessarily be hired and trained, and unless we hire more teachers and train them how are we supposed to implement these teaching solutions that will benefit us all so greatly? Different teaching methods are something that can benefit all kinds of people, this is not just an ADHD/ADD thing. So I don't really get the point. People (Harvard PHDs and those that glorify what they say) want to say "apply better teaching methods" but they don't have any solution for how we get there.

The visual isssue is very common. This common eye issue is 1 and every 4 kids. It is being found in varying disability labels. Most of our eye dr. practice is kids and some adults even. A eye chart only looks at can you see far or near. The other testing looks at perseptial skills also. You need to ask for a therapeutic exam by a therapeutic eye dr.

Schools needs to worry more about education more than the others stuff. Staff also need to be given other ways to teach something. They also need training to educate Se people. The problem is most schools teaching things visually and some people don't learn that way. Son/I don't learn this way. We need auditory/hands on learning.