FDA Warns About ADHD Drug Strattera | ADHD Information

I have, just didn't want to admit, I have ADHD. I also
had addiction issues with coke. I was tested and was put
on Strattera. The doc is increasing it over a two week
period to 80 mgs. I am on 25mg now. He won't give me
stimulants.I don't want the high, I want the focus. I
have read that Adderal XR is not abusive and has great
reviews and was hoping for that. I am open-minded and
will give it time. I am the type that does not like help
or medication. So when I was put on this and reading all
the negative about Strattera I felt betrayed. On his side
he probably would not want to see me do coke and have a
bad reaction. I haven't for awhile. I need feedback. I
want to focus and calm down but there are no other non-
stimulant types that don't make you tired. I can't
because the nature of my work.Dont, whatever you do, go on 80mg a day without going up very, very slowly over a long period of time (if at all).
I have been on Strattera for over two years and I am one of those success stories that you would like to be. I have made incredible advancements in my profession and my family life, I can listen to people, I dont get too down anymore but couldnt say I am without moodswings, but everything is so much better with strattera than before. My life has started since i started taking the thing.
This week I contacted my two psychiatrists, the original one who prescribed it and the one I have now (the change of doctors was beyond their control). I just had to let them know that my dosis of 2 capsules a day seems to be the answer to the successful use of strattera.
I have heard of almost only bad stories of Strattera and its side effects. I can even support the stories, in the beginning they slowly got me up to 60mg a day. I was close to a break down if you can have a break down when on drugs. They reduced it and then I got the feeling that I needed something in the evening, that the low dose wasnt enough, you see I have lots of meetings in the evenings and have to be focused to listen well and write minutes. So then I started on 40mg twice a day and I havent looked back.
Yes the initial phase is scarey with feeling faint, car sickness if you so much as look at a kids swing. But my life has started and it seems to be still with me since March 2008!

Before I forget, I thought I would never remember to take a drug twice a day but I am very proactive about my ADHDS and so initially I had strategies and now I just remember, sometimes 3 or 4 hours late but I never forget it completely.
I wish all you ADHDsers lots of luck finding the right drug. We are not stupid, far far from it, we are locked into our brains. At least that is how I feel, I feel let out of it!
This website is fantastic. Many thanks all who contribute.Shame I dont have time anymore to contribute, I have set my account up so that the website lets me know when someone has contributed to this specific noticeboard on Stratt. I dont have time otherwise. This is very very important to me. Has anyone combined low doses of Strattera with Intuniv? The focus was so good on the Strattera, but the tics came at 40mg..We are now on day 5 of Intuniv and my 10 yr old son didn't want to take it this morning. Doctor is out until tomorrow, but my hunch is that the Intuniv won't be the answer either. At only 1mg, he is irritable, emotional and angry and falling asleep in the afternoons. The Intuniv boards don't really say whether these side effects decrease with higher dosage, but I doubt it. soworried40366.3930555556Just a little thing to add, I am a 68kg, 47 year old female with hormonal swings. I started off on the Stratt by opening a 25mg capsule and taking half of it each day. I know it is a bit unorthadox but why not if the doc prescribes it? (tastes absolutely disgusting). On this dose, after only about one week I had a life changing experience and will never forget it. I felt mellow and chilled, first time ever. First time in my life without any external cause, I just sat in my kitchen , alone at my computer, late in the evening, in March 2008 and felt calm! My 10 year old son was diagnosed with ADHD this past fall and we tried dietary changes to avoid meds, but the grades were slipping and he ASKED to be medicated. We gave in and tried Focalin first, which we discontinued after only a week as it didn't help him focus at school and he was an emotional wreck. We then tried Strattera, ramping from 18mg to 40 mg and we were going to continue to 60mg until out of the blue, he started having severe facial tics. I had always understood in the past that tics were a problem on the stimulant medications. This is heartbreaking because my son likes the Strattera and he says it has helped him at school (and at home) but I can't risk him being stuck with these tics permanently. I did not let him take his 40 mg this morning. I called my doctor yesterday and am still waiting to hear back what the next step should be, but I am feeling pretty hopeless. Maybe we should try to find a holistic doctor, but I think, deep down, the natural supplements won't be enough to really help him...I don't know....I'll do ANYTHING to help him.
soworried40295.301875That is the possible hitch. I dont know how long I can take the stuff and I dont know what it is doing to my brain in the long run.
Also, since I said I never forget to take the Stratt I have to say I have been thinking about it and it is not true. I do forget to take it, only about once or twice in two or three months but I do forget. It seems to be ok if I do forget to take it though, ie. no big consequences, but I wouldnt want to forget it more often than that.
One more thing, it is better to take it really early ie. 6.30 or 7 if you have to be at work by 9.
I think the ramping process is crucial with Strattera. Inappropriately ramped and you can drive yourself to the nearest secure clinic with an overnight bag!
I mean, too higher doses are being taken of the stuff too early on, and then people complain about the medication and give up on it spreading bad publicity about it in the meantime (so often the case with Strattera) when really they should be reassessing how much of the stuff they are taking or when and how they are ramping (the process of reaching the dose which the pharmaceutical company has worked out your body weight will need to benefit from the med). Hope I am making sense.
I just dont hear anything good about it from anyone except myself, I am afraid it will be removed from the market.
sink40394.6705208333Thanks bchilds..I will check that out. The only reason we are medicating at all is because my son asked to be. We tried supplementing with magnesium and omega 3s and have always had a pretty healthy diet without processed/artificial colors, but it wasn't enough. He finally came to me and said he wanted to try meds. Every time we fail, I ask him if he wants to go off meds completely, but he doesn't. With all the hell we've been through, I figure if I homeschool him, he can go off the meds since we haven't found the right combo yet anyway. That's great! I have a friend who's daughter finally wanted to try meds too, but then the side effects were so bad she wants to go off and try something natural. It's DIFFICULT! I'm assuming your son is probably a little older as well then. My biggest concern is with the younger kids that get put on meds because it's just easier than trying to deal with the underlying issues (and I must say I was tempted MANY times to medicate my son as well, but we persevered!) :). The latest CD's/DVD's that Kirk Martin just put out called Courageous Parenting were EXTREMELY helpful in dealing with the school issues. I think WAY too much pressure is put on our kids (AND us) about doing well in school these days. Kirk addresses all this. Anyway - good luck with everything. Just remember thath success in school is not a total indicator of success and happiness in life. Some very successful people (Bobby Flay I believe for one) did not even complete high school. I certainly don't recommend that BUT...it's just shows us that school is not the most important thing in life.Thanks..Yes, he just turned 11 and while his teachers try to help him, in a class with 30 kids and several kids that need extra attention, there just isn't enough time. He gets bored and misses the homework assignment etc... I hope that we can remove the stress of school while we work on organizational skills and rebuild his confidence at home...he's very smart, as most ADHD kids are, but school is such a self-esteem killer. Bullying is an issue too..mostly verbal, but occasionally physical. I want to explore biofeedback and some other approaches that are not pharmaceutical!

I know what you mean...there are always just a few kids that require a lot of extra attention...and the way school is becoming with budget cuts and even more students in classrooms it makes it even more difficult. My son has an IEP so he gets extra help, but he still can't keep track of anything. He is very smart also....if all he had to do was listen in class and take tests, he could probably be a straight A student, but he doesn't do a lot of the classwork, or does it very poorly, and he never brings homework home...so he gets mostly C's. He also deals with bullying, but unfortunately has learned to dish out some name calling himself. We keep talking about it but he's all into this "fairness" stuff and we're having a hard time getting him to "buy" the idea that just because others do it to him, doesn't make it OK for him to do it to others...after several years of trouble in school...I think he's in some ways just given up>>>BUT.....this celebratecalm information is helping a LOT! It just takes time to recover from 7 years of trouble! :). I wish I could home school him but I work full-time and he is not self-disciplined enough to do it on his own....plus he really does like the interaction at school, he just can't focus on doing the work when there is so much going on around him. Plus, he usually gets in trouble when someone does something to him (you know other kids are quietly mean to him and he blows up and is the one in trouble...I think that's why he's in some ways given up).

BChilds,

Does the school know what you are dealing with as far as bullying? it sounds like the kids have learned how to get to him, if you know what I mean. Kids are brutal. I am glad that your son sticks up for himself, otherwise the bullies know they can get him and he won't fight back, as our son did.

Please make the school aware of everything. They are accountable while your son is in school under their watch.

My son is 13 1/2, in 8th grade, and we have been around the world with bullying. Our son doesn't defend himself because he knows he will get in trouble, which I don't like, and doesn't tell - he waits until he gets home and tells me.

It is horrible. I can understand the giving up feeling.

The school knows but really all they see is what he does and of course because he is so outward about what he does, they only see him as the bad guy (and what he is doing IS bad, because he is picking on those that he thinks are "stranger" than he is). It really is sad, because he so badly wants friends but doesn't know how to get them, and to be honest in many ways he is a lot more mature than the other kids his age (he is 12 1/2 and in 7th grade). Even the assistant principal said this. It's like Kirk Martin said, some of these kids are like adults trapped in a child's body, but the problem is, they are still around kids their own age all day and really want to have friends. Of course the fact that he has always been in trouble since he was 5 makes kids see him as "strange" and "bad" too. If they would know him one on one, I think most of them would think he is pretty cool.

Oh and you're right about kids being cruel....I'm pretty sure some of them push his buttons on purpose, just to see him explode and get in trouble.

Do they offer "social skills" classes?bchilds...did you buy the CDs? I checked out the site, but it seems expensive...I'm just starting to read the Howard Glasser book (awful titled Transforming the Difficult Child) and it seems similar..wondering if I'd get the same info from the book? 25 mg has not been enough to help him focus at school, but they have added zoloft to help with the tics. his moods are fine, but he's having a terrible time in school remembering things (losing homework mainly) so now we are staying with 50 mg Zoloft and ramping up to 36 mg Straterra (2 18 mg pills) which is just under where we were when the tics became so severe we had to stop. I'm scared for him, but we'll try anything. School has been such a nightmare despite his 504 that I will likely homeschool him next year to give him time to mature and focus. Sink: That is inspiring to hear...maybe one day for me!

As for the Intuniv...we went off it...we stuck with it for 10 days on 2 MG and couldn't take it anymore. He hated it, and he wasn't pleasant to be around. The first four days he was off it were like he was a new kid...back to sweet self. We are revisiting Straterra and plan to stop when we reach 25 mg since the tics started at 40mg.

How long is it safe to stay on Straterra? I'm concerned about the growth inhibiting side effects.
I am amazed that they are suggesting 60mg. I was on that dosage at one go and it was terrible. That was at the beginning when I started on Strattera two years ago. I very soon after started taking two doses of 40 mg and it is great and has been ever since, two doses a day. The result is that 80mg is actually the highest dose possible and that is what I have but I just couldnt deal with it all at one go. I remember my hubby also said i was aggressive then. I have been on the right track (more or less) for two years now and would never have believed how enjoyable life could be. Quite recently driving along on my own I was overcome by the fact that life has just become so enjoyable and I have lost alot of my mega problems. I have also worked since starting the drug which I would never have believed possible.
I cross my fingers that it works out for your son. Strattera has really great potential but you need the right dosage.Because he weighs 90 pounds, they thought he could handle more than the 40mg dose...I'm still waiting to hear back from the doctor. I'm going to supplement him with magnesium, zinc and omega 3 in the meantime since I'm not letting him have the Strattera for the moment. So glad to hear it's working out for you..congrats...I'm envious...once I get my son sorted, I'd like to get some relief myself after all these years.

soworriesd ~ I am SO surprised they went to Straterra w/o trying either Concerta or Adderall. PLEASE try one of these first.

I completely wish something holistic would work, but for us it never did. My son is now a Freshamn in High School, has been on the high honor roll all year, & is FINALLY making/keeping friends. Both Adderall & Concerta work well in our house, Straterra after a while did not.

soworried.......there are so many different choices in terms of stimulant meds today and a few should be tried at different doses. The patient is always put through a trial of medication and most people don't find the right med and/or dosse right away, The protocal is trying a few stimulant meds first and then if all else fails, Straterra is tried. Is your child's doctor a specialist?She is our pediatrician and she is not the one who diagnosed him...we went to an independent Psychologist for the testing/diagnosis. We are considering switching to a psychiatrist who specializes since we only moved here recently and so we have very little history with the pediatrician. I'll be interested to see what she suggests next. I hear a lot of positive feedback on Concerta. Just because the Focalin was a disaster doesn't mean all the stimulant meds will be...I've also heard of success with low doses of Straterra combined with Concerta? We'll see what's next...thanks for the feedback!

We tried the concerta/strattera mix when we first began but strattera and my son didn't get along. He had too many negative side effects, especially the depression/suicide thoughts. So strattera was removed but he is still going strong on concerta!

He also takes guanfacine because he is impulsive and very hyper so this combo works best for him.

Adderall did not work for him so that was quickly removed as a choice as well.

The tics are really tricky. We use a psychopharmacologist for the meds. The doctor is simply amazing. The choices that people have to choose from to help with all sorts of "things" is tremendous. But I honestly recommend a specialist. This is their field of specialty, unlike a pediatrician.

Please keep posting as things are coming together. You are amongst a big group here who have been where you are, at the moment!

Best wishes & regards!

LOVE, LOVE the pediatric neurologist. I feel like we are finally getting somewhere. I will heartily endorse a neurologist over a pediatrician for ADHD. That said, we now know he does indeed have a tic disorder that we were never aware of until the Straterra brought it out. With school almost over, we will clean out and go drug free until July, where we will go back to the neurologist and she said she will likely try Guanfacine/Intuniv first. I will continue to supplement his magnesium, zinc and omega 3s since it can't hurt, but all other meds will remain suspended until then.

Great post. I am so happy that you are happy and comfortable with your doctor, that is so important.

We started meds at the end of my son's first grade. he was all over the place with side effects, different meds, and parents full of anxiety. We ended up stopping meds and starting over during the summer. It was the best thing. We found concerta was best, in addition with guanfacine. Our son is the one who put the H in adHd. He is impulsive, silly, goofy, etc.

DS is still on the same med combo and turns 13 in a month. And still seeing the same prescribing doctor. WE love him!! He joined us at a Patriots football playoff game this past January, he is awesome. He also has a son with aspergers who is attending college now, so he is not only a fabulous doctor, but is also a father who is dealing with "similar stuff"

Thanks for the encouragement...I'm so grateful to have found this site and read through other parents' experiences...it helps SO much. I think another reason we love this doctor is that she told my son the "good news about having a tic disorder with ADHD is that you can make it through medical school!" Her perspective is obviously from a place of personal experience and I have full faith she will guide us down the right path. Thanks again!! Excellent soworried! Great job

Please keep us posted

We got lucky with a cancellation and have gotten in to see a pediatric neurologist tomorrow. Fingers crossed. Since we stopped the Straterra, his tics are lessening in severity and are hopefully on their way out. I am really delighted to hear this 'so worried'. It fills me with hope for us all.
Thanks for keeping us posted!
ps. I find the Omega 3s helpful. I am 47 years old and 67kg.female.Likewise, my 16 year old on Stratera only lasted 1 1/2
months and reported, trouble sleeping, very disturbing
nightmares, increased frustration starting in early
evening, and eventually the build up of stress ended with
a hole in his bedroom wall!!

I have noticed that sometimes doctors just prefer certain
drugs and that the most objective information I have
gotten has been from the pharmacist. They will be honest
if asked direct questions especially if it is not the
pharmacist where you have put the prescription in, also
they will print you off the factual information sheets
for you to inform yourself.

Keep detailed logs on behaviour changes so nothing gets
missed or forgotten; that is the best way to recognize a
pattern in the shortest amount of time.
Regards,
bkmomI just wanted to share my experience with Strattera because I'd like to
warn others out there that may be considering this medication or
possibly wondering why they are feeling so down while taking this
medication.
I am 21 years old and I have been on Adderall for 3 & 1/2 years and
recently switched to Strattera because the side effects of adderall were
starting to bother me (anxiety) too much. After less than two weeks on
the medication, (10mg the first week, 20 or 25 the second, and starting
40 the third week) I began feeling increasingly depressed. I was
journaling and writing things that I never would have written about
before, saying how down I was and how depressed I am.
At less than two weeks into the medication, I began cutting myself
numerous times because I was so depressed, and I was experiencing
thoughts of suicide. I just felt like hurting myself. It was really scary!
The beginning of the third week on the medication the depression and
cutting continued, and now I was also having outbursts of crying that
would last for hours and mood swings of irritability and anger that are
not normal for me. I would be pouring down tears from my face and
saying, I don't even have a reason for why I'm crying. It was really
upsetting and worrying. The second day of week three I stopped taking
Strattera altogether and wouldn't go near that medication ever again!
I'm back on Adderall and happy that I no longer have thoughts of
suicide, cutting, or crying spells. Make sure that you or anyone you
love who is taking or starting to take Strattera is closely monitored
because things can get pretty bad very quickly.we recently had our 12 year old on Strattera. Fine at the
beginning. After around 10 weeks, we saw extreme irritability and moodiness. We have now taken him off
completelyWe also had our son on straterra, maybe 12 weeks or even less. He was only 7 or 8 at the time. He became depressed and mentioned wanting to kill himself ( suicide thoughts is a side effect). We removed immediately and informed the prescribing doctor. DS is now 14 1/2 and doing awesome on just concerta and guanafacin (tenex)Hi all,
I should have sent this message ages ago, kept wanting to do it. My apologies for not doing it sooner.
I had Strattera from March 2007 to January 2011 at the dose of 40mg mornings and 40mg evenings ie. 80mg per day, the hightest dose possible for a woman of my weight 70kg/11stone.
I always felt really good about it, the med certainly has changed my life for the better. I posted a few messages which reported how happy I was with the stuff.
I feel that you need to be filled in on the recent developments.
At new year 2010/11 I felt frustrated with my impulsivness and I had had a mini 'crisis' in October (2010) last year (out of control, shouting, nearly broke my vacuum cleaner in rage) I also had a little mini burn-out the December before that 2009, similar symptoms. I ,at last put it down to my meds Strattera. On my own I came down on the dosis, but got too low and the depression started to come back. I have since gone back to my psychi and he has put me on 40mg evenings , 25mg mornings and I take ritalin when I am at work.this means that some of the symptoms which are reported I have to accept are caused by the Stratt., but I am still on the stuff, still pleased with it but of course, as you can tell, take 15mg. less a day, which works out as a lot over time. I am able to cry , be emotional, laugh and feel more myself now. I was a bit more 'electric' before I changed the dose.
I only take 10mg. ritalin tabs when I am working, bit of a problem when it is a long session cos I realise when I need another one but dont want to swallow a pill in front of people.
My psychi is really pleased with me and said last visit that I am making him unemployed. I am still with the same employer which I started with in 2007 and working with the same voluntary organisation that I started with in 2007. My social life is still looking good, thanks to the years of therapy I had before my diagnosis.
I wish you all well with your meds. I dont feel it is possible without them. For me they are the pair of glasses for the almost blind.

I know I need my meds. And I know it took several YEARS for me to find the right combo of meds and doses. And I was , and am, both very compiiant with doc's instructions and very aware of effects and side effects and demanding I have the best possible solution available.

Stable on mine now for over 4 yrs

It is obviously a very individual thing.

Good luck to all.

While Strattera helped me focus, it caused suicidal thoughts. I just thought I would add that.Amyann, how old are you, what do you weigh, how many mg are you on , how often do you take it in the day? I would be very grateful if you could let me know. I didnt do so well on it when I was on 60mg once a day but am doing well on 40mg twice a day.

I am 32, I weigh about 220, I no longer take Strattera and don't remember if I took 40, or 60. In fact I think I took 40 at one point and then 60 mg at another. I hope I helped you Sink.

feel free to email me

Amy

Were you ramping or had you been taking it for a while?

think this is useful for everyone, if you would rather keep it private send me a message. it is a v important topic , specially for parents of teenagers because, that is where the suicidal thoughts have been most noteworthy, i think.

I have taken Strattera for just about 2 years.
I am a 46 year old female of about 60kg with two children and take two tablets of 40mg a day, morning and evening.
I started on 25mg about 2 years ago and within 3 days felt the benefits although was told that wasnt possible because it apparently takes weeks to feel the benefits.
Initially I also had side effects which reflect the previous contributors. Sickness, dizziness so that I had to lie down on the spot (thankfully always first thing in the morning when I was on my own). The benefits were so considerable that I was keen to see it though as a difficult phase which would lead to a better time.
I was then put on 60mg (I think)once a day which was too high and this had the most difficult side effects to deal with, psychological effects - tearful, attention seeking, a particularly nasty phase in my life (lasted approx. 4 weeks which was bad enough).

I was then put on the 'magic dose' of 40mg 2x a day which has worked exceptionally well.

My life has taken on a shape which I never thought possible. I work, get head-hunted, and at long last managing to balance work out with my family/husband.

The success of Strattera is obviously dependant on dosage. Keep it too low rather than too high.

I wish all of you finding it difficult to find the right meds all the best. It is a dreadful shame that so much potential is lost from us ADDers.

I have an ADD tandem which is helping me where this website used to be indespensible.

I thank you all for your honesty and support at the time when you were there for me, when I was on the website more often.

Strattera was the first prescription medication I was prescribed for ADHD. It
has been nearly five years since I have taken the medication, but I will never
forget the horrible headaches and nausea I dealt with while on Strattera.
Additionally, I experienced no relief from the typical ADHD symptoms that
most of us deal with on a daily basis (inattentive, impulsive, etc).
Unfortunately, I've had other problems with ADHD medications, and it took
me nearly five years to finally find a medication that has really helped me
complete my work on time in grad school, and life in general.

In short, this medication did nothing to help me, but that doesn't mean it
can't help others find relief from their ADHD symptoms. Talk to you doctor!

TTTmom- I am so sorry to hear of such awful things you and your child are dealing with! I would HIGHLY recommend that you talk to your doctor right away! If you don't feel comfortable with him then by all means you need to find another! I know that every child is different with their symptoms and their reactions to their medication. These are just awful side effects and I can't understand why a doctor would allow the child to continue to be on these! Please know that there many other resources out there for you! One that I find VERY helpful is the ADDitude magazine, and you can go to there webiste and they have mounds of great information. We have only had to try 2 different medications with our son and that was Concerta that up and stopped working and had horrible side effects for him. The other is VyVanse and when he was on it he did wonderful and this time he is off his medication and I am trying other ways to help him. With the Concerta my son became very emmotional at any given moment and became socially withdrawn. And that was not like him, then he started to complain about awful headaches, trouble having bowel movements(which we had to give a powder laxative everyday for) and stomach pain. So far we have never had severe side effects as your child has. It just makes me so sad to hear this! But it is very important that you talk to your Doctor and do alot of research yourself. And if you can join a local support group! Be impowered by the knowledge that is out there for ADD/ADHD! I pray that God will be with you and your child!! Good luck and keep us posted!

Hi there mom7804,

I just wondered what you thought, my son has been on concerta for the past 5 years and doing well, except for social. I believe it may make him withdrawn as well. I have always thought that it was the med slowing down him impulsive and hyperness, and just accepted it. But now I wonder.

My son is severely adhd, that is what the evaluting pediatric neuropsych said. He is very hyper and impulsive. With his concerta, he is great in school, teachers love him, but he isn't interested in social. He hangs with kids at school, he doesn't want to be alone, BUT there is nothing outside of school, except when he plays sports and even there he isn't looking to hang with anyone. I wonder if it shouldn't be like this and that another med would address his adhd symptoms and allow his personality to shine through?

Any thoughts from ALL would be greatly appreciated!!

Thank you in advance!!

mom7804, TTTmom's post is from Sept 2005 and she hasn't visited this board since 2006 so I assume things have changed for her child in the past 4 years or hopefully improved. I doubt you will get a response but thanks for being so supportive :)

I wason strattera for six months.

the cons

i wasn't in therapy

i was less tolerant of other.

I couldn't tell when i was on it but once i quit my personality felt like i could relax.

sexual side effect

i was still forgetful

the pros

it gave me a mental structure of thinking.

something i would only be able to do on paper.

i could keep planning and tasks in my mind like an organizer

Great post!!! looking forward on sharing my expertise and learning new ideas here at the same time..i'll see you around guys... Some of you are lucky in the fact that you can choose a stimulant and
switch. Strattera seems to be our only option since Matthew was on Ritalin
at one point but started to throw seizures.

I came into this post on Strattera with one aim and now I have read the posts I feel I have to change it a bit. I wanted to say,

one group member said the same about Stratt as I feel about it - its great! She was on a ritalin med before and it was a real roller coaster, very very wearing - spent a few months in a mental hospital overcoming the depression suffered from it. The Stratt she has been on about a year and to hear her talk about it made me so pleased that I am on it too.

I get the feeling from the posts here though that it isnt a child friendly med. I certainly wouldnt put a child of mine on it.

I am going to try some diet supplements though. I had my hair analysed by a special method whereby they can tell if you are deficient in trace elements, it is actually an organisation in England for the support of couples wanting to get pregnant where for medical reasons it isnt working. Sounds odd but they can inform the woman having difficulties conceiving of the trace elements she is either deficient in or has too much of and the results are phenomenal. But of course for me it was interesting to see that I am deficient in a trace element which is necessary in metabolism, the winning of energy from cells for my body to operate. Made absolute common sense. I checked out the element in wikipedia and will try it out sometime soon. The website for the hair thing is

Best of luck, it is one of those things that is worth a try I think.

Luvmykids0239889.9270717593No, but I'll bring it up in our next med check with the doctor. Thanks! Another help - aside from the meds - is of course learning how our kids "tick" and learning how to deal proactively with the behaviors. If you have not heard about Brain Boosters and Calm Kids Workshops, you need to check it out. Our kids as we all know are "wired" differently, but like this guy says, they are made that way on purpose! They have many gifts and passions that what schools like to call "normal" kids do not. Check out the website, if you don't know about it already, and if there is ever a workshop in your area (they are free) go to one. It was the best thing I EVER did (and a friend and I drove an hour to get there). I also ordered the parenting CD's and am listening to them over and over. A lot of the stuff is really a bit common sense, but of course most of it is not something that is easy to carry out and at my age requires constant reminding about what is the best way to handle my child. They also do teachers workshops, and if you read the testimonials you'll see what teachers say about the information as well. I could go on and on, but don't have the time. Check it out, because although meds can help, they obviously don't fix the problem because when the pills wear off you have to give them another one, so learning the WHY of how our kids act, and how to act proactively is a GREAT HELP! Luvmykids0239725.3003125[QUOTE=rosie1]

My son was the same- It was horrible and scary for all of us. My son now has straterra listed as an allergy on his med record. CW is also on Concerta. What is nice is that concerta is weight adjusted as your child grows. CW is 11 and he really understands is ADD. We have more good days now than bad. It is really weird how some mornings, you know right away if it is going to be a good day or bad. CW does not have many issues at school, but we notice more of the ADD when the concerta wears off in the evenings and am. That is why we originally tried Straterra in conjunction with concerta-bad idea! I encourage you to reach out to your resources and remember that ADD/ADHD is covered in the Disability Act. I hope your little girls school works with you. Its a challenge- but I am blessed with an incredibly bright,caring son, and I know he will become a great man one day- that is all we can really try to do:)

Pam

[/QUOTE]

Yes, thank my dd is an honor roll student. Very smart too. No learnign disabilities. Wow, I didn't know ADHD fell into the disabiliy act. Well, hopefully our kids won't have to endure that. god bless you and yours.

What kind of vitamins and diet? Does it really work? Is she more focused in school?

From experience myself, it all depends upon the child and their exact "issues". A really good multi-vitamin can do wonders - just be sure that it is a GOOD one (you usually get what you pay for, but shouldn't have to pay more than about a month or so). Be sure there are no artificial sweeteners, colors, or flavors in them. Something else that I use is a grape seed gingko supplement, as well as High DHA Omega 3's. Magnesium can also help. Peter Gilliam has a supplement - it's a kid's forumla CALM. I've heard that has helped some greatly. There is also a product by I believe Nature's Plus called pedi-active. That has also helped some. As for the diet, avoid as much sugar as possible (totally with only an occasional treat is what we do for the most part). Sometimes dairy is an issue, sometimes wheat/gluten, sometimes corn, but avoiding sugar is ALWAYS a good idea (for all of us actually). We actually went to a kenisiologist who told us that our issues were with sugar and dairy - so those are the two we try to avoid the most (sometimes hard - but worth it).

As with medications, the vitamin/supplement and diet approach is trial and error, but the one thing you know is that you won't have any irreversible side effects - or ANY negative side effects for the most part at all The only one you have to watch is the magnesium as it can cause bowel issues if you get too much (shouldn't be a problem if you follow the directions and start out with the smallest does) but you'll know at that point to cut back.

I better get to work. If you like ordering on-line, I have a couple of good sources for some of the supplements and would be happy to share with you. Otherwise, must whole food stores are pretty good about having good quality supplements.

Good luck. I know that medications have really helped some, and in some instances may be necessary; however, I also believe that there are far too many children on medication that don't really need to be and who in the long run would be much healther without them. Sometimes I think that kids just aren't allowed to be kids anymore in school, and if they don't all fit into the same little "box" that everyone wants to put them on a pill so they fit in with the rest. It's like they aren't allowed to be who they are. They all grow up, and they all mature (some slower than others) and they are ALL different - God made us that way!

[QUOTE=msanab4]What kind of vitamins and diet? Does it really work? Is she more focused in school?
[/QUOTE]

No the vitamins and diet didn't work for us. My dd is on Concerta now. She has been for 1 month. Just had a check up and all is good. So far! I'm keeping my toes and fingers crossed.

[QUOTE=BChilds]

[/QUOTE]

You are right and have some ligitimite ideas. But as for me, and I'm sure many others we have no choice but to try a stimulant. I have cried and cried and said NO i was not going to put my child on medication. But she was about to get kicked our of school and also was loosing friends. Also loosing family members that didn't want her around. I mean that is all terrible and sad. And that is what made me feel like, Ok I've watcher my dd suffer long enough. She has more friends and has since then kept friends that were about to walk away and gets to spend the night with her grandparents much more often now. Her grades are better too.

It does totally depend on the child and exactly what issues you are dealing with. Although my son has lost some friends - most of them are ones I didn't particulary care for anyway :). My son has never been formally diagnosed, but suspicion is that he has Asperger's in which case there isn't really a pill to give him anyway. None of his teachers have ever thought that he was ADD/ADHD, although some of the symptoms are certainly there, my understanding is that Asperger's children are commonly mis-diagnosed. He is VERY smart, and I really think that with a really good therapist, who is familiar with Aspergers and the way he thinks, that they could make him understand how to act differently (in the situations where it is necessary). I may end up home-schooling him, but haven't gotten to that point yet (he's such a social guy).

Anyway - the vitamins and all those other things are really good for them anyway, and my understanding is that magnesium is good in eliminating toxins from the body, so wouldn't be a bad thing to take even ON medication, as are the Omega 3's. OF course you'd want to check with your doctor to be sure (he may never admit the supplements would help, you just want to get his OK they won't hurt - and I'm pretty certain they won't. It's kind of like an MD recomending a chiropracter, they rarely do, but I KNOW they can help!) I know a lot of parents that leave them on meds during the school year, and then when summer comes, try to take them off and try different things, but then again, it depends on the child and the exact issues you are dealing with.

I better get back to work. Again - good luck!

[QUOTE=BChilds]

I better get back to work. Again - good luck!

[/QUOTE]

I still do give her the Vitamin's I got from The Vitamin Shoppe. No artificials at all. I bought Calm child and it didn't seem to affect her at all. I tried so hard for weeks, thought she was doing ok but then bam. I also was giving her on top of the Vitamin something called Attention. These all came from The Vitamine Shoppe.

Hello Everyone-

I have previously shared my son's experience while taking Straterra. He was immediately taken off once we linked the changes to the drug. You do not have to slowly stop it. It does take atleast 3 weeks to a month to clear the drug, so you may not see improvement of the symptoms right away. It is amazing once my son cleared the medication how things returned to normal. Good LUCK!!!!

PAM

Pam

[QUOTE=rosie1]

Hello Everyone-

PAM

[/QUOTE]

Hi rosie, I took her off right away but in 3 weeks to a month; like you said it is cleared out of the stystem. However...with my dd they couldn't control her in school. Disruptive, figity, impulsiveness, hyperactivity. She said the class was in such a dismay. so I took dd back to the physchiatirst and we tried Concerta. so far so good. The strat made my daughter ANGRY. Also depressed, she stared into space allot. With concerta, she smiles, no depression, and all ADHD symptoms are controlled for 12 hrs. So far so good. But it is trial and error. don't give up. It all depends on how serious the ADHD is and how much affect it is having on your child in school and family and friends.

My grandson age 7 diagnosed ADHD w/ anxiety. He also has muscle Tics. He was placed on Strattera 10 mg once a day for 1 wk. then increased to 10mg 2 x daily. His Dr. said the med would help diminish the tics and help w/ behavior.

After the 1st wk we thought we saw a diminishing in the tics. After 3 wks at the increased dosage his demeanor changed along with decreased appetite. He became depressed and we took him off the meds. After seeing his Dr. again the Dr. said to try again at the 10 mg dosage. We did and after three weeks we had a major problem.

His appetite decreased, depression again and last night he told his father and grandfather "He just wanted to die" He didn't want to talk to anybody. Luckily we had a Dr. appointment today. When the Dr. was told, he said, " stop the Strattera". Ya think?

He then gave us an RX for Focalin, I am unsure of the dosage cause my son his father has it. I told my son not to fill it yet. What I have read about the Focalin causes me concern.

1. It says shouldn't be used w/ the presence of muscle tics.

2. Can heighten anxiety

3. Can produce all the other symptoms that Strattera does.

My grandson has learning problems and attention problems but he never had depression to the point he wanted to "die". The hospital is one of the top in the country, but I am loosing faith in putting him on ANY medications if this is the result.

Never in my wildest dreams did I think the suicidal symptom would appear in MY 7 yr. old grandson. It did and my message to anyone considering Strattera to think long and hard.

My son suffered the same depression brought on by strattera as well. He was 7 and wanted to kill himself. We had him on the med for less than two months. We stopped it immediately and the depression and death talk ended immediately.

We have had success with concerta, which is a stimulant, as well as tenex/guanfacine - for overstimulation.

He is now 11 and still successful with concerta & tenex.

Have you tried concerta?

No, it has not been mentioned. My grandson was only diagnosed in June.

I just hate having to go from one drug to another and so on. It cannot be benificial to ones physical being. Then you have the great outlook of your loved one becoming addicted to the stimulants. I guess all of this is just a little overwhelming to us. My son has custody of my grandson and I know its taxing on him. I am sure we will be on this website often reviewing the events everyone else are encountering also.

concerta is a med that leaves the system after it is metabolized. Straterra is a med that builds up in the blood system over time.

In order to find the right med and right dose, you will need to do this. We were lucky to have only tried adderall besides concerta, but it took a while for my son to level off on the right dose. he metabolises quickly. But it was worth it, believe me!

Thanks for the info

You are welcome - believe me I know exactly what your family is going through -been there, done that!!

Take care!!

For us the concerta caused tics in our 10 yr old. We can't do stimulants for him because of this. Strattera is our only option with meds at this time. I a m watching him closely. He was teary for the first few weeks and not really hungry. So I gave him the pill at night for the first 3 weeks and now give it to him in the am. He eats well all day and the teariness has ended. He was started on 40 mg's and is still on that dose. I know he should have started on a lower dose now but we can't change that now.

lcso910, what is your grandsons weight? Strattera is VERY weight dependant. My daughter suffers tics also. We have tried almost EVERY med out there, so BELIEVE me I understand your frustration. A couple of things, dont completely discard Strattera as it doesnt sound like the dose was ever ramped to the approrpiate dose. If the dose is too low, you will see the side effects you mention, like emotional lability......................also it's worth trying other stimulants to see what is the right "fit" for his metabolism and symptom control. Meds taken AS PRESCRIBED will not case him to become addicted. Please try to educate yourself and your son as much as possible. We are finally able to successfully use stimulants wiht ym daughter after many years as she is taking Strattera, at the approriate dose, allowing her to take a very low dose (10mg) of generic methyphediante (same med as Ritalin). The low dose is not causing tics, nor the signifiant appetite suppression we saw with the other stims. All meds will have different effect on each child/person. I am not saying our combo would work for the next person, just try to stay patient and open minded, learn as much as you can about the different meds options and even non prescription options and make infomred choices.

Good luck to you and your family.

He is 10 and weighs 72lbs. They started him off at 40mgs at the end of July and that is still the dose he is on. When he starts to cry he will catch himself and not go into any fit but I can tell that he really has to try not to cry. I will usually give his reasurance that whatever he is upset about is just small. A little coaching I guess. Interseresting about a small does of stimulant too. We haven't talked about that.

He started too high. He should've started low and increased in increments every week until he reached target dose. My daughter is a little bigger, 82 pounds, she started at 18, went to 36, and now at 60. Your son's target is 39-58, so they went too high too start and he at the low end of target. This is why he is emotional. It also takes 4-6 for results.

Once you're at target for the right amount of time you could think about using the low dose stimulant (I wouldnt use Concerta) even if only for school.

I thought that when we got the meds. So we can do nothing now about that right? What would be his target dose with a weight of 72lbs? Also, I agree with you on the concerta. Thanks for the info. You've givien me hope. This is our last resort with meds so I hope we can get it to work.

his target is 39-58 mg.

We had about given up too. Life's certainly not perfect, but the Strattera/ low dose methylin combo, helps her and NO TICS and she is eating and sleeping normally too. We've tried a LOT of different things and different combo's, both stimulant and non stimulant. This is the best we've done. She is also almost 14 (next week) and her hormones are starting to be less erratic. STILL in full swing but not quite as crazy as the past two years...................

Thanks- I'll wait and see how he does in school. That will be the real test.

We cannot put our 10 yr old son on any stimulants because concerta- even at 18 mg's caused awful tics for him. The 1st time we tryed it it caused him to do this eye thing. A year later we tryed a smaller dose and after 2 months with no side effects he woke up and started nodding his head like 4-5 times in a row and would do it like every minute. It was horrible. When taken off the concerta he stopped within a few weeks. When he was initually on the 36mg dose he had such an improvement in his study skills- his handwrititng was noticabley better too. So I am jealous of those that can take stimulants because it did work but we couldn't have the tics so that is why we had to take him off the concerta.

He is taking 2000 mg fish oil, magnesium, multivitamin, and B-50 everyday. He hates taking all of these pills but we make him anyway. I am trying to give him more fruits and veggies too. Cutting out the sugar cereal in the AM before school.

We just started him on strattera a few weeks ago and he has been more emotional. Nothing horrible but when he gets upset he sometimes cries. He just has a harder time controling his emotions. I have noticed it getting better in the past few days. So I'm watching this closely. School startes next week so we'll see how that goes.

I've had him sit down and do school pages for the last week to get him back in the groove. He still frustrates so easily. Has no patience with sitting. I'm not sure if the strattera is doing anything to help him concentrate but I'll give it a little more time.

Also- he pees the bed still- So your ADHD kids have that problem too?

sunny what is is weight and waht is his Strattera dose? Was it ramped? You do sometimes see this during the ramp period and you will see it if the dose is off. Strattera has to be dosed exactly by weight or you will see side effects.

My daughter also suffers from tics with stimulants, especially Concerta. She has been on Strattera since last November and in the spring we added a low dose (10mg) of Methylin ER (generic methyphedinate). She's done well on this combo, we've even gone to twice aday dsoing of the Methylin ER on school days. NO TICS....it's been a good combination..............the Starttera is allowing us to keep the stimulant dose so low.

Our daughter was diagnosed with ADHD and ODD. She was placed on Strattera for the ADHD - boy was that awful!! Our doctor was increasing her dosage nearly weekly by 10mg increments. Everytime she hit the 40mg mark she would spaz out and go into thermo-nuclear-meltdown mode. I let the doctor talk me into a second try with that stuff and after hitting 40mg a second time with the same result, I called it quits permanently for Strattera. She's seven years old and the violent/aggressive behaviors were absolutely unbelievable!! In addition to suicidal thoughts, she also informed me that she would kill me too. She was absolutely uncontrollable in her rages which included her saying unbelievable things as well. I've not heard ADULTS say some of the stuff she came up with while on Strattera. I wish the FDA would retest that drug. I really don't think it's safe. Has anybody else experienced this highly negative level with Strattera?

We switched her to Concerta. We are, so far, having better luck with this drug, but I must say that I"m disappointed that it doesn't last the entire 12 hours. I still have a fight on my hands every morning and every evening. Yes, I realize that some issues are ODD related, but not all of them. I'm not sure if anything can be done about it either. I'm just thankful that, so far, she's having a more successful school year. I pray for the continued trend.
yes, my son wanted to kill himself at the age of 8! Once the strattera stopped, those thoughts and words stopped. He is now 11 and just fine with concerta!Thank you Bethann! I've felt alone in my quest to get help for my daughter. We're not out of the woods yet with the Concerta, but it's been a much better start. Have you heard of guanfacine(tenex)? It really helps smooth things for these guys. My son's concerta wouldn't be as successful without it!!

BChilds

I completely agree with you regarding diet. I was able to diet control my son for years. I still have him on a restricted diet: no artificial colors or sweetners, no msg, nitrates, or caffiene. At this point he can occassionally cheat while at a friends birthday for example. I had no choice but to seek medication because my son did not qualify for any special help because he is gifted. However that did not make him any mor attentive. As I had stated before due to my son also having a motor tic disorder Straterra was and is the only medication he is able to take. We call it our wonder drug. We have been very fortunate not to have any side effects.

This whole situation is nothing but trial and error. What works for me may not be right for you and vice versa. Don't second guess yourself if you feel strongly about the course of treatment you have chosen.

My 8 year old son has been diagnosed with ADHD for the last three years. And we have tried alot of meds. And the drug that has worked the best for him has been strattera. He is on 40 mg once a day now. And its been a miracle. But with the help of a great dr (finally) and counceling we have been doing great. I strongly think strattera works great for my son. But obviously it works different for other people. I will watch for signs of violence and suiside after reading your posts though.

I think the dose is as important as the drug. In the event you are prescribed too high a dose, your brain chemicals are going to be the same as if you were on too low a dose. It is the norm (and it should be the norm and if it isn't your doctor isn't doing it right) to try a small dose for a month, see how it works, increase it for a month if necessary, see how it works and go along in that fashion until he/she and you as a parent or self-sufferer are convinced you've fine tuned the correct dose.

And I think any group of teenagers would have a higher rate of suicidal thoughts and anger than any group of adults. It is an angst-ridden time after all.

[QUOTE=TTTmom]

My 11 year old son was just put on Wellbutrin and I was told that this drug may bring on suicidal thoughts...but that he has shown no "suicidal tendencies" he should be fine. Since then, he has carved into his bed frame "I hate myself"...and has admitted to us he is mad and sad. I am beyond feeling like this is an "attention" getting behaviour and is something that needs to be properly diagnosed. He was diagnosed with ADHD, which I am sure he has based on his compulsive behavior, inappropriate reactions and social behavior... I am not apposed to having him on a medication to curb these symptoms he has...I just want to know who else has had kids perscribed meds for ADHD, the other symptoms these kids may have had (especially bed wetting...) and how they approached it and what has worked.

Any response or help is appreciated

[/QUOTE]

My son is 9 - and has been diagnosed ADHD and has the compulsive behavior, inappropriate reactions and social behavior, including the bed wetting - although now that is happening only about half the time and we can't figure out how or why. In any case, I have REFUSED to medicate - thanks to this forum and all the information I have gotten from different people. We just decided that he had enough problems as it is without having to do the trial and error thing with the drugs - there are too many BAD reactions mentally, as well as physical side effects we just couldn't see the good in it (not that there isn't any for some). In any case, we have him on an excellent multi-vitamin, a grape seed/gingko supplement for his focus and allergies, and also on a high DHA Omega 3 supplement. He is also in a SBD class at a local public school that handles special ed kids. He is doing great MOST of the time, but of course has his moments (and when he does they are usually pretty bad - but that I think is because we have not yet figured out what works with him). I think diet can also play a HUGE role in behavior - and it's not the sugar (although it can be). It's the artificial sweeteners, flavors, colors among other things that are SO bad for the brain. FRankly, I think that is what hurt him in the first place - as he had chronic ear infections from the time he was 10 weeks old (as I had to work and put him in daycare) and many of the children's over-the-counter AND prescription medications contain Aspartame.

I'm sure I will get some disagreement to this post, but if you are interested in chatting, I believe my email is in my profile. I better get back to work!

My son is the small perecentage that had a horrible reaction to strattera. He was prescribed Straterra by our pediatrician. She gave us the overview of side effects, but never once mentioned the potential for suicide. What I feel is important to know is that when studies are published the numbers don't seem to bad until it is your child that is affected. My son went form being a kid with contolled adhd to a boy that I did not even recognize. We spent nights in the ER, going to psychologist, trying to figure what was wrong, before we made the connection that the Straterra was causing the behavior. My son was lucky . He fianally told me that he was having thoughts of killing himself and actually tried to strangle himselff. That was the scariest night of my life. We almost lost our 10 year old son because of a medication. Education is key. Before any physcian writes a Rx for Straterra they should educate the parents and patients of the potential side effects. My son stopped taking Straterra, and we got the child back that we knew and loved. Just be very vigilent when it comes to medications and don't make the same mistake we made.

My son tried it when he was 7/8, and said he wanted to kill himself. It mentions depression as a side effect, not sure about suicidal, but my son was thinking about it at such a young age! He told us he wanted to kill himself. I am glad this thread is here, just to get the information "out there"!

Some people have no problem with it, however, others do. We need to have as much information on these meds that we are giving to our young innocent children!

Once he stopped, he never said anything like that again. He is on concerta and it has been several years. DS is now 10. I don't think DS even remembers thinking those thoughts!

I am so glad that your son doesn't remember. My son does, but he understands that it wasn't something that he did. I am an RN- I have the guilt of not making the connection earlier, but I truly feel the burden should be placed in the docs lap. I have nothing but respect for our pediatrician, but during our episode with Straterra, she saw first hand how devastating it can be. The scary part is that you can think that it is part of the disorder, and not connect the two. Trial and error is unfortunately part of finding the right med, but take the extra time to research meds, question your physician, and don't be afraid to call them out if the omitted to teach some important info. It can be life or death. We now have our son on Concerta as well and he is doing great.

As sad as it is to hear all the negative stories you all have about Strattera, I have to say it has been a life saver for my son. For 18 months we tried every stimulant on the market in every conceivable dosage and never had success. The last one, Adderall, I think, even gave my 7 year old a revved up heart rate. After all the failed stimulants his Ped recommended Strattera. We are up to 36mg and it is wonderful. NO side effects and for the first time we are actually able to enjoy our son and not the zombie boy that he was with the stimulants. His true personality comes out and is much more enjoyable. No, he does not focus on school work as much as I want him to, but compared to last year he is doing 100% better.

For all those negative reports, here is at least one positive one!
O god. I am a teen and I take strattera and I have had suicide thoughts. Im going to take St. John's Wort to help. Hope it will work... I mean it has worked great for me. I'm near and if not at the top of my class.
riverbassfishin39399.6045717593

Rhonda-

Some children do great with Straterra- we were just not one of those. It is just crutial that you really pay attention to mood changes. You are right that other adhd meds have similar side effects, but Strattera is new to the treatment of ADD/ADHD. Please do not take this message board as a discouragement on any med. It is just that parents need to be informed and realize that although the numbers don't look so bad, the side effects are real and can be extremely scary to parents just trying to do the right thing. Good Luck!

oh ok, I was getting nervous. So far so good. GOOD LUCK TO YOU TOO AND ALL OF THE REST OF THOSE PARENTS TRYING TO FIND THE RIGHT MED FOR THEIR CHILD. Have a good weekend all.

Rhonda

I took strattera and ended up with a HORRIBLE allegic reaction. I had hives the size of a CD in some spots. The hives were everywhere, including my face, and even my lips. It also was the worst for decreasing my appetite. I was 5'8" and 115 lbs. I lost about 20-25 lbs on the meds over less than 2 months. I switched to Concerta and I've been using that effectively for 4 years now.
niugirl39396.6674189815

I'm a new member and a new parent of an ADD/ADHD child. I'm really getting frustrated with all the Straterra comments on how bad it is. She just started, today is her 2nd pill. If you read up on all the other ADHD med's they have similar and other side affects too, they ALL have something to watch for.

I tried Strattera several years ago in an attempt to find the right drug. I am currently 33 years old and was diagnosed at 29. It had just come out and my doc said they wanted to try it because it was non-stimulant. All I have to say is OMG!!!! I had thoughts I don't even want to discuss. It was horrendous! I was terrified of myself and what I was thinking and doing. I was racing around making no sense what so ever. When I was no longer taking it, those things stopped. I know everyone is different, but you could not get me to take Strattera if you paid me, nor will I put my kids on it. That is my opinion! Thanks! What would happen if I took it... I was thinking about taking in tea bag form... I know I shouldn't do it but if I talk to my mom about getting anti-depressants she blows it off. I like tea anyway... Also I take a multi-vitamin and it does not help... It just makes my stomach feel better...
I just left a message for a guy that I know that researches these things - he is not a doctor but was a pharmicist and knows about all these things. Just don't take anything yet. Can you talk to your doctor? Well about a year ago he suggested that I get meds... His idea slowly faded away on the topic. I quit the high milligram meds and I got better but I always mouthed off... then I got back on and Im getting depressed... Bullying has hit hard on me...

RIVERBASSFISHIN-

iT IS REALLY IMPORTANT THAT YOU SEEK OUT HELP BEFORE MIXING ANY HERBALS WITH YOUR CURRENT REGIMEN. i AM MORE CONCERNED WITH YOUR SUICIDAL THOUGHTS. ASK YOUR PARENTS FOR HELP AND MAKE SURE THEY KNOW WHAT IS GOING ON. MY SON CONFIDED IN ME AND HE IS BACK TO HIS UPBEAT FUN SELF OFF OF STRATTERA. I KNOW THAT ANY PARENT WOULD RATHER HAVE THEIR CHILD WITH BEHAVIORAL PROBLEMS AND BAD GRADES THAN NOT HAVE THEM. TALK TO YOUR DOC AND FAMILY RIGHT AWAY.

AMEN! If you can't talk to your parents, call a church and speak to a pastor. They won't ask for insurance information or payment. There are some large churches that even offer counseling by professionals to their members - and even if you're not a member I'm sure they would be happy to help.

Hopefully you can speak to your parents, but I know how it can be sometimes with communication between teens and parents.

well hummm. how do I describe... My mom wont let me off my pill. my grand father says I dont need it. I only feel like crap when someone is bullying me. Im a target for bullies because im "different" I know what right and wrong is but I just get to the edge. Im an avid hunter and fisherman and I feel better when I do those things. I also take over the counter meds that i don't need. I might be addicted.
I was just reading and I think I have over-focused ADHD. Read this...

Someone with "Over-Focused ADHD" is like Rabbit, in that he:

* May worry a LOT, even over things that don't really matter much
* Can be very oppositional to parents
* May like to argue
* May be somewhat compulsive about the way things ought to be done
* Will have a very hard time shifting from one activity to another
* Always wants to have his way

The cause of this type of ADHD is an over-active Anterior Cingulate Gyrus. This part of the brain is over-active all of the time.

And, to make things worse, when a "work load" is put on the brain, such as school work or a chore to be completed, there is the common ADHD symptom of decreased activity level in the Pre-Frontal Cortex.

In this type of ADHD some stimulants, and too much use of L-Tyrosine to increase dopamine production can actually make the problem of over-focus worse. So be careful.

So should I take St. Johns Wort???

who prescribes your Strattera? You can call them yourself.

Another option is to talk to your school counselor. Do you have any relationship with your guidance counselor at school?

Ya I do but she's not very good. She used to be my anger management teacher... She did not help...

do your parents have time to spend time with you, or are they working a lot? Maybe that's too personal - it just sounds like maybe your parents are very busy people making a living. I know what that's like. I'm one of those busy parents myself and a high-strung one (luckily my son's father is a lot more easy-going).

Na... lol... I just need help. My parents are well. err... unknowing, well kind of. they don't see that I feel this way. I feel like im getting no where. I want to know what would happen to me if I took St. John's Wort...???
riverbassfishin39399.6852546296You know - when you talked about mouthing off - I think my son does that too. He's really rude a LOT but I don't think really knows it (he's only 9). He actually has a bunch of friends, but his social skills are a little "off". Luckily he was able to go to a special ed class with other kids that are also a little "different" so to speak - but he does have a few friends that are "regular" ed kids too. I think it's all just a "mess" these days. There is too much of a push to "teach" and not let kids be kids. Even in first grade my son rarely got recess. That's crazy for a 6-year-old boy. In my opinion, the schools would get a lot more accomplished if they had more "play" time. But that's just my opinion :) Ya at the middle school we have no recess. All we have is go outside and wait for the buses to come with the other kids then go back inside...

Well - I'll get you an answer to that as soon as I hear back from my friend - but meanwhile I have to go watch my son perform at the 4th grade PTA meeting music performance (or whatever it is!). I'm glad you are laughing - and I think most teenagers' parents are - well - "dumb" because I know my Mom was (my Dad died when I was 9 - so he wasn't around to be "dumb" but probably would have been). I don't really understand it - because parents afterall - were teens too, but I guess the generations are just all different.

Hang in there - I'll get the answer to your St. Johns Wort question. If your parents are just "dumb" and not just trying to ignore you - keep trying to talk to them - maybe they'll "get it" sooner or later :)

Did you see that Last Day of Summer movie? That was great - and the one thing I remember was about them talking about how there is NO recess in middle school. I don't remember recess in middle school myself - but some "goof off" time is necessary I think!

I have to run....check back tomorrow!

lol ya. you said something about a musical performance... is it instrument orientated or singing???

it's just singing - but I have to leave now - we are supposed to leave in 6 minutes :)

Well my mom bought me st. john's wort. Ill be taking it with a vitamin. My step dad looked it up and said it will be ok... riverbassfishin39399.7808449074riverbassfishin, dont take St. Johns Wort with the Strattera, call your doctor, and talk to your parents.Yes -my understanding is you have to slowly get off of the prescription and be off for at least a week or maybe two before you should really take the St. Johns Wort - check with a doctor. You CAN however take a high DHA Omega 3 (although it doesn't hurt to ask your doctor first about that too). A really good multi-vitamin can also help - if you're like most teens (and actually most people in general these days) you probably don't get all the nutrients you need in your foods - and your brain needs nutrients to work right! Well my mom made me take it and now I feel way better... I just hope I don't feel too good in 3 weeks. It takes 3 weeks to fully work. But let me tell you I'm feeling great!

riverbassfishin, how old are you? I think that really stinks about the bullies. they are everywhere, even as adults. Just remember, they are the ones who are truly miserable inside. By bullying it makes them feel better about themselves. They are truly insecure.

Do you think the meds depressed you or the stuff going on around you?

Just keep doing what you like to do that makes you happy. Don't change. Keep posting here, you have friends on the boards!!

Best to everything, and be careful with the meds. My son had straterra depression until I stopped it. He's now on concerta and tenex with no depression.

Beth

It might be the stuff going around me. But when I went to a higher dosage, I know it was the pill because I felt guilty about things that now are no big deal... riverbassfishin39404.4829861111

You know the other thing that is also going on with you is puberty. That totally changes the way meds had worked for you.

Once puberty starts/hits, the meds need to be revisited.

I have seen some of these symptoms in my daughter. The anger that she has is increasingly getting worse. I will call the Phsychiatrist tomorrow and ask what to do. I do not want to ubruptly take her off, but ween her down from the Stat. She has only been on it since Nov. 6th. I will seek alternative and most likely natural ways for the ADHD. She is saying and doing things that are scaring me badly. My son became aggressive on straterra. He got into fights almost every day when he first started the med. We took him off immediately. The fights stopped quickly upon ending the med.

Hi.. I saw that someone mentioned concerta... I tried a long time ago to take Ritalin and I wanted to kill someone.. ( not really kill, hahaha, but just alot of anxiety..then I more recently 5 years ago tried stratera and felt the same crazy anxiety.. do you personally, any of you know about what concerta is , or If you also felt anxiety, with these others,or how in general does it make any of you feel .I am extremely high strung with chocolate or caffine.

[QUOTE=awsomemoon]

[/QUOTE]

I do not deal with prescription drugs anymore for my daughter. She is doing great on the vitamins and diet.

So can I as her parent, stop cold turkey on giving her the Stattera? I want to try vitamins and natural alternatives such as brain function, things of that nature. The Strat has caused her to be VERY moody, irritable, extra sensitive emotionally about EVERYTHING and anything. Her eyes, even look darker and more gloomy like, if that makes sense. The positives are focuses better, attentive but that is it. I don't think the Dr. will want me to stop giving meds and will want to try something else. I don't not want that however. A friend of mine suggested fish oil. I've started my son on them but haven't noticed any change as of yet. (He is also on Wellbutrin).Be careful, and ask your doc about this. Tell your friends.

We prefer silly unstill boy. Good choice your making.

When I started with Strattera, I was hit with dizziness and nausea. I lied down for a couple of hours after which it subsided. But regularly I used get dry mouth, my appetite has definitely decreased and would have regular problems in sleeping. I have to take two pills of 40 mg each. My doctor suggested to take both of them together in the morning, and this got rid of the sleeping problem. The dizziness has gone almost gone away, but sometimes after taking the medicine I still feel the dry mouth. My appetite had drastically reduced but it has recovered a little bit. But the medicine has definitely improved my situation.

che_adhd38634.9134143519

By JOHN J. LUMPKIN, Associated Press Writer

WASHINGTON - The Food and Drug Administration warned doctors Thursday about reports of suicidal thinking in some children and adolescents who are taking Strattera, a drug used to treat attention deficit hyperactivity disorder.

Manufacturer Eli Lilly & Co. announced that a black-box warning will be added to the drug's label in the United States. Such a warning is the most serious that can be added to a medication's label, and similar warnings will be added to the drug's labels in other countries. The company said a study showed instances of suicidal thinking were rare.

In a statement, the FDA said it "is advising health care providers and caregivers that children and adolescents being treated with Strattera should be closely monitored for clinical worsening, as well as agitation, irritability, suicidal thinking or behaviors, and unusual changes in behavior, especially during the initial few months of therapy or when the dose is changed."

Eli Lilly said it provided the FDA results from Strattera clinical trials of 1,357 patients that found five youths taking the medication reported having suicidal thoughts, while none of 851 patients taking a placebo reported having any. One young person taking Strattera attempted suicide, but survived, company and FDA officials said.

There was no evidence of increased suicidal thoughts in adults taking Strattera, which also goes by the generic name atomoxetine, the Indianapolis-based company said.

"The actual risk is very low," said Dr. Thomas Laughren, head of the FDA's psychiatric drug unit. Despite the warning, he said, "FDA still views Strattera as an effective drug."

At the FDA's request, Eli Lilly will publish a guide for doctors and pharmacists to give to people who are prescribed Strattera.

The warning is the result of a larger FDA review of psychiatric drugs and their possible association with suicide, the agency said. Old drug studies are being reviewed for occurrences of suicides and suicidal thoughts. Last year, the FDA ordered warnings on all antidepressants that they "increase the risk of suicidal thinking and behavior" in children who take them.

Strattera won praise from some doctors and parents when it became available because, unlike Ritalin, it is not a stimulant, a class of drug that can be addictive. But its chemical makeup is similar to certain antidepressants.

A review of other ADHD drugs is continuing, Laughren said.

About 3.4 million patients — adults and children — have been prescribed Strattera since it became available, with Lilly officials saying about 75 percent of those taking the medication are children.

Dr. Harold Koplewisz, a professor of child and adolescent psychiatry at the New York University School of Medicine, said that 19 percent of all teenagers have suicidal thoughts, making "suicidal thoughts in adolescents part of the normal experience."

"There are 2,400 adolescents thinking about suicide for every one that commits suicide," he said in an e-mail. "We are talking about a medication that may make some children and teenagers uncomfortable, which is very different than a lethal situation like a gun in a house."

Still, he said, all children and teens taking psychiatric medication should be monitored.

Attention deficit hyperactivity disorder affects as many as 7 percent of school-aged children and 4 percent of adults in the United States.

Strattera's worldwide sales have dropped lately, falling 31 percent to 3.5 million during this year's second quarter from a year earlier.

Lilly warned doctors in December to stop using Strattera in patients with jaundice or who show signs of liver problems, and it placed a warning on the label and in prescribing information after at least two patients on the medication developed liver problems.

The company said Thursday it believes the drug is safe.

"While suicidal thinking was uncommon in patients on the medication during clinical trials, it is important for parents to be aware it can occur, and to discuss any unusual symptoms with a physician, " said Alan Breier, Lilly's chief medical officer, in a statement. "Lilly continues to view Strattera as a safe and effective treatment option, and those doing well on the medication should be able to continue their treatment with confidence."

Associated Press reporter Ashley M. Heher in Indianapolis contributed to this report.

FDA: http://www.fda.gov

Eli Lilly & Co.: http://www.lilly.com/

administrator38624.6783564815

Our couselor must actually be a psycologist (MD), but she doesn't just hand out drugs, she takes the time to talk to our son. That makes a huge difference from the first guy who charged us (copay) for 10 seconds of his time while he weighed him and wrote the script.

The Dr told us the same thing about Strattera is that it was not effective in most children. We found Strattera was not effective alone. Or more accurately it was not sufficiently effective but combined with Concerta it took the edge off the times the Concerta wasn't working (i.e. first thing in the morning and as soon as he got off the bus)and a few time we were able to go through the weekend with only the Strattera.

Call me a selfish mom but I was really hoping it would work so we did not have to 1. use a stimulant on him (controlled substance) 2. get a written script each time and 3. use mail order meds. Copays are killing me but thank goodness for insurance.

Charna

How can a counselor perscribe meds.Ours we just talk with.He also has group sessions 6 times with other kids like him. Loving it so far. My issue since this is a new drug what do they not know yet about it. A LD testing lady told my wife er most parents tell her not effective in kids she as talked with. Brent38625.3463657407

I recently pulled my (10 year old) son off of Strattera. He was on it for about 9 months and things seemed fine but recently he started getting very violent. Biting one sister, and stabbing another with a pencil. Then he started talking about stabbing himself. When we talked to him he could not really tell us what was going on. Just that he started wanting to hurt people and himself. He was andry and sad all the time. When I was talking to family about it by brother mentioned that my nephew had the same problem with Strattera. This all seemed happened like in 1-2 weeks; the sudden violence, the talk and talking with family. We took him right off of it and he is back to his usaul annoying self. I never thought I would be happy to see that. It scares me to think how long he has had to deal with this himself before he started showing out ward signs.

In response to TTTmom, I started with a neurophsycologist. He diagnoised my sn with severe ADHD and Dyslexia. He recommended a counselor. We tried on and all he did was hand out meds. So we tried another and another. Finally we found a woman counselor that not only hands out meds but listens to my son and what is going on. When we thought we got his meds undercontroll and he was doing great we stopped going to her regularly; our normal PCP started perscribing his meds but we are going back. I guess the only advise I can give is 1. get him tested - it may not be ADHD, 2. find a good counselorand 3. stick with them. The only constant you will find is these kids are always changing, what works today will not work tomorrow. Sometimes they change a little at a time you don't notice but a professional should.

Good Luck!

Charna

Any response or help is appreciated

I am grateful for posts like this I did hear something on the news but missed most of it. My daughter is not on anything now and I want to be informed for when the day occurs she needs them I am prepared.My 6 year old son was on strattera for one week, His personality and physical appearance changed so drastically after the first dose and declined daily for the rest of the week. He was zombie like, very mean, had red rings around his eyes, it was the most awful drug out of all that we have tried so far. He had no highs just lows, and lower .. and very violent when he wasn't in a trance. My sons biggest problem with all of these adhd drugs are that he does tend to aggrivate much more easily and his behavior becomes much worse on them, on the other hand he doesn't talk as much (which is a godsend sometimes) and he can sit still for longer periods of time. I just don't know whats worse, having a mean bully of a child on meds or having a silly boy who can't sit still?? I am heading over to look at natural remedies as I am so tired of trying new drugs with the same negative side effects.

They said that they had no information about Straterra having this effect in adults. But that just means they had no adults in a study. When I was first diagnosed (at age 45) I was prescribed Straterra. I had several strange side effects. But after about two months of use, I started waking up in the middle of the night with strange nightmares. Eventually I started to feel desperate and began to wake up in the middle of the night feeling desperate and panicked. I started to think about dying.

I think this stuff may work great for some people, but it has a very bad effect on others.

I took it and it made my anxiety much worse. I would start thinkng I was going to die in my sleep. I'm on adderall xr now and have no problem.

This just shows what I've always stressed to both adults and parents of ADHD children. You MUST combine the meds with close and careful monitoring by a qualified professional!!

The box already showed many warnings - including that it can stunt the growth of adolescent children. Any med that works on the mind must be followed carefully. Many think it's like aspirin - just pop it and keep moving. I personally had to remind my own MD that my dexedrine had to be monitored for the side effects initially. So we must all go a little further to make sure we all stay safe.

- Glen

[QUOTE=BALANCED]

How can you say that 4 per thousand is low ????

Especially when you compare it to NONE on placebos.

Are you implying that no suicidal people took a placebo and all the suicidal people took Strattera ?

Don't you think that's just a little too odd ???

[/QUOTE]

You find me a group of 1000 that does not have 4 people with suicidel thinking.

[QUOTE=csmommy]

The average risk of suicidal thinking was about 4 per thousand patients treated with Strattera compared to no events in placebo-treated patients.

Well, thankfully that is very low. I have to wonder, is it because they already had a predispostion for suicidal thoughts?

[/QUOTE]

exactly!!

At 4 per 1000 (a .004 percent average), it's almost certain that more than that number would normally feel suicidal thoughts and have a tendency towards it - due to either genetics, social standing, upbringing, etc. You can cancel it out as an anomaly - something not caused by the meds itself. You'd need higher than the general populations' tendencies towards suicide before it begins to show as a side-effect. Also, when the number of patients studies is low like many of the test results we see - it's hard to get a real fix on numbers. The closer to 100 percent studied - the more valid the numbers become.

The average risk of suicidal thinking was about 4 per thousand patients treated with Strattera compared to no events in placebo-treated patients.

Well, thankfully that is very low. I have to wonder, is it because they already had a predispostion for suicidal thoughts?

My son cannot handle a stim, but does very well on Strattera. He is happier, sleeps better, gets straight A's, is more creative, better at sports, & handles social situations so much better on then off.

How can you say that 4 per thousand is low ????

Especially when you compare it to NONE on placebos.

Are you implying that no suicidal people took a placebo and all the suicidal people took Strattera ?

Don't you think that's just a little too odd ???

ok - where in the study did it say nobody committed suicide while taking placebo?

These meds are to help the concentration that's it. Our son on this showed he is more a loner then anything. Look at remove or doing high protein low starch meals helps a lot more with the hyper reduction. What about garlic?

It also tastes good...

Garlic is ok - in small amounts. I tend to sweat buckets at work - and that would include all the savories I eat during the day. Not a good thing in an enclosed space let alone outdoors!

So - I go it mostly garlic free. I don't take the pills - frankly my immune system is pretty good so I don't bother!

Every few years I get one of the lovely flus going around - but the last couple years I have taken my company up on their flu shot drives so I haven't gotten one yet (touch wood LOL). So far so good!

Hey, you're welcome!

I heard the square ones get .00 each in Japan! Wow!

Yeah, I was floored when I saw the stats on these studies. The other ongoing one is running at 98% still.

CvC could end up better than polio (which still flares up if not vaccinated for in Africa). I'd rather see all like Small Pox. Globally eradicated, except for the BioWarfare stockpiles in certain countries, like your southern neighbor... and northern neighbor... hey, you're in the middle!!!

Btw, it was one of the girls that found this article over in where' ya from. I thought the bashers would enjoy a new front. hehe.
BTW, sounds like it's gonna bring Merck back from some financial trials... Why not take immune builders daily this lessons your illness chances at all.

Immune builders? Sadly - the herbs claiming to hop up your immune system are being proven to be far less than effective during tests in the labs worldwide.

There are lots of regular foods that keep our immune system working fine. I try - but it's a hassle and sometimes I end up getting more protein and fiber than anything else. But I try!

My immune system is working overtime - it's one of the only nice thing about having allergies to dust and environmental factors. Studies have shown those of us with hay fever, pollen and dust allergies tend to get sick from viral infections less than the general population - and speculate that it's the T cells in the body going overboard to protect us from imagined threats due to the allergen sensitivity. So I guess the sniffles aren't so bad!!

[QUOTE=Davidornado]Hey, you're welcome!

I heard the square ones get .00 each in Japan! Wow!

Yeah, I was floored when I saw the stats on these studies. The other ongoing one is running at 98% still.

CvC could end up better than polio (which still flares up if not vaccinated for in Africa). I'd rather see all like Small Pox. Globally eradicated, except for the BioWarfare stockpiles in certain countries, like your southern neighbor... and northern neighbor... hey, you're in the middle!!!

Btw, it was one of the girls that found this article over in where' ya from. I thought the bashers would enjoy a new front. hehe.
[/QUOTE]

Even if they stay in the low 90s for efficacy - it's almost a record.

Polio - wow there's one place George W. could be flooding money into. If he paid for all of africa's polio shots - and sent UN forces over to get it done the whole continent could be polio free in a generation! But - there's no oil thar!!

Smallpox - yeah. Scares the bejeezus out of me. I just know that some bozo is experimenting with it to make some interesting bugs for us. Can anyone say "The Stand"? Not that they need the smallpox - there was a contraversial article in a science journal that showed how a modestly talented scientist could modify monkeypox or chickenpox to become a version of smallpox. I had to shake my head and look twice before I got that one and the impact of it.

It's a good topic for sure. Who knows - as they delve deep into our troubles they might find that many problems of the mind are viral in origin. We'll see.

[QUOTE=curus]

Glen, thanks for what you said and its OK - please don't worry about it.

We obviously don't agree on some things perhaps, and at times we can all 'lose it' in the heat of the moment. I know I do sometimes and can be quite a pain in the .... but when I do, I'm fortunate that people I know understand, and its over as fast as its begun.

[/QUOTE]

It's all good. I like that you feel strongly about this. People in the middle are either kidding themselves - or us about their true feelings. We all have deep feelings - but it takes guts to lay it out for others to see - and take apart.

I'm all for warning labels, and for informing people about the hazards (and benefits) of any given approach to this. I even endorse people to check out things as varied as you mention like meditation and alternative medicine (though herbalists lost my trust when a herbal company poisoned thousands when they bought siberian ginseng from russian harvesters that couldn't tell a poisonous local root from the genuine article! I believe it was the silk vine plant - but can't find the original article as of yet - but will!)

Anyway don't get discouraged at what you do. It's always valuable to get all aspects of anything. It's only when fear tactics and hyperbole is used rather than empirical science that I get really really pissed off!!!!

Fda warnings are coming on all add/adhd meds. Stims will be can cause heart problems and even a stroke. Look into the cause of attention issue. Some are caused by seizure activity. [QUOTE=curus][QUOTE=GlenW]

ok - where in the study did it say nobody committed suicide while taking placebo?

[/QUOTE]

On Strattera's manufacturer's (Eli Lilly) own site? Thats the first place I looked to check it out.

http://newsroom.lilly.com/ReleaseDetail.cfm?ReleaseID=175142

"...In conjunction with a request from the U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA), Lilly submitted to regulatory agencies an analysis of adverse event data from its Strattera clinical trials database that identified a small but statistically significant increased risk of suicidal thoughts among Strattera-treated children and adolescents (5 cases out of 1357 patients or 0.4 percent vs. 0 cases out of 851 patients taking placebo)..."

Balanced may not post links to what he says, but he does have the facts straight as far as I can see.

Please note its .04, not .004 which I realise may well have been a typo or innocent miscalculation in your earlier post, but there's a rather large difference - so needs attention.

In reply to CSMommy

["You find me a group of 1000 that does not have 4 people with suicidel thinking."]

851 (study participants that were on placebo) is more than half of the Strattera-treated children. So if its difficult to believe that anyone would find a group of 1,000 that does not have 4 suicidal people in it, particularly bearing in mind that these are children and adolescents with ADHD rather than any group of 1000, then the placebo looks rather promising as a future treatment.

Even without an expectation that 4 in any group of 1,000 people are going to be suicidal and going only on the study figures:

If 5 out of 1357 children experienced suicidality on Strattera, then between 2 and 3 children at least out of 851 should have experienced suicidality on placebo. In fact, if Strattera is an effective medication, then presumably those going UNmedicated should have experienced suicidality at an even higher rate than the group being medicated.

Presumably then, the placebo and its inactive components are effective in preventing suicidality (and should be used as treatment) or Strattera causes suicidality.

As far as I can make out. ?

[/QUOTE]

bump

[QUOTE=curus][QUOTE=GlenW]

ok - where in the study did it say nobody committed suicide while taking placebo?

[/QUOTE]

On Strattera's manufacturer's (Eli Lilly) own site? Thats the first place I looked to check it out.

http://newsroom.lilly.com/ReleaseDetail.cfm?ReleaseID=175142

Balanced may not post links to what he says, but he does have the facts straight as far as I can see.

Please note its .04, not .004 which I realise may well have been a typo or innocent miscalculation in your earlier post, but there's a rather large difference - so needs attention.

[/QUOTE]

First to start - sorry curus - I was actually referring to Balanced when I quoted his statements that we are killing our kids, turning them into drug addicts, etc. My apologies for any problem this error caused you . Sometimes I get the discussion I'm in slightly mixed together and I'll try not to in the future where you are concerned. You do give alternatives and that's all I'd like balanced to do - if you plan to naysay - give these parents a choice!

You are right - it was a typo and it IS .04 percent or 4 one-hundredths not the .004 or four one thousandths I stated. I stand in error there.

I would like to state that in this survey, as in all surveys where a small group is studied and then extrapolated to cover the larger - there is a standard variance to cover errors in the survey - I don't know what this one's is (I looked - but can't see it anywhere), but usually its plus or minus 2 to 4 percent (depending on variables such as size, expected accuracy, age ratios, etc.) but not knowing how accurate they judge their own data I couldn't judge.

I understand that you feel that ANY deaths that could possibly be attributed to a medication is unacceptable. I don't like the idea myself. However - the jury is still out on whether the medications in question ACTUALLY cause the deaths, or if the patient was suffering from a deeper psychosis that went either misdiagnosed or undiagnosed. Even peers at equal level of experience in this field are not in chorus on this yet.

You might feel I'm reaching on this - but I also have a theory at the increase in reported incidence of suicidal thoughts and attempts since the first studies on this came about in the US. No research is ongoing on this - but has anyone thought that perhaps these reports are being fabricated by parents wishing to bring class action lawsuits? The US is notoriously litigious - and I would not put it past most of the parents reporting such incidences there as being capable. It's a sad world out there.

Again - my apologies curus my friend. I did not mean to bunch you in with the target of my ire when I did. I will endeavor not to do this again. You bring up good points and I'm glad you do.

[QUOTE=pastmember/Bren]Fda warnings are coming on all add/adhd meds. Stims will be can cause heart problems and even a stroke. Look into the cause of attention issue. Some are caused by seizure activity. [/QUOTE]

Yes they can. And I agree with you about FDA warnings. Its almost inevitable that they'll be given on all add/adhd meds in the not too distant future, just like they have on many other meds quite recently. People are getting more aware now about what goes on.

Glen, thanks for what you said and its OK - please don't worry about it.

Best

Hey bashphemers et. al., Block This:
Study: Vaccine blocks cervical cancer '100 percent efficacy' against cancer-causing virus, maker says

Thursday, October 6, 2005; Posted: 8:04 a.m. EDT (12:04 GMT)

Among those still virus-free after the six months, none who received the vaccine developed cervical cancer or precancerous lesions over an average two years of follow-up, compared with 21 who got dummy shots.

"To have 100 percent efficacy is something that you have very rarely," Dr. Eliav Barr, Merck's head of clinical development for Gardasil, told The Associated Press. "We're breaking out the champagne."

Woo-hoo! Party time!

Like wow, that is very very good.

Two observations:

1. It is not yet on the market. "If all goes well, sometime in 2006 it should be on the market," Barr said.

2. It is a GMO (genetically modified organism). Some folks will have a problem with this. As for me and my house, we've been around GMO food and fiber for over a decade, and it's helping to feed the world. I support it 100%. But then again, I'm in agriculture. Gardasil, a genetically engineered vaccine, blocks infection with two of the 100-plus types of human papilloma virus, HPV 16 and 18.

3. It is a vaccine, not a cure.

4. It is not a license to licensciousness.

5. Okay, I lied, 4 observations. Who's counting?

My wife doesn't do vaccaines cause of reactions from them and has positive immunity in stead of negative antibodies. No use then needed.

Thanks for putting this up David!!

I think someday our grandkids (well your grandkids I can't have em) will look back at this vaccine the same way we do at the polio vaccine. A brave new world!

100 percent efficacy is almost impossible for anything in science. I was skeptical when I read it - but it does make sense. It's a relatively simple virus that causes the cancer and doesn't vary in it's sequence- yet. They feel that this is a good example of things to come - and I sure hope so! It's one of the most nasty cancers and once people start getting immunized from it it's bound to have ripples in all sorts of places. Sort of like birth control in the 60's.

GMOs - I get tired of the nay sayers. We as a race have been modifying organisms for 10,000 years - starting with wolves to dogs, and working our way to trying and cross-pollinate to make a blue rose. Everything we see around us has been changed by us. They've never connected the smallest danger to us with GMOs. Not that they haven't tried.

Soon hopefully we will have vaccines for things like tooth decay (bacteria), ulcers (again - bacterium or virii), herpes (lets hope so - I get sick of the simplex variety - cold sores suck!) and lots of other human ailments.

And GMO foods? I have always wanted to try the square watermelons GMO'd that way - but the local greengrocer says they are too exotic and expensive to get in. Dammit!

Oh - and if our group doesn't have reactions to vaccines like pm/Bren's wife does - I am suggesting you get this year's flu shot. It's supposed to be a bad year for flus and those of us who venture out and handle things like money, doorknobs and telephones should get it. It's cheap (canada it's 20 bucks at many places) and covers the more virulent of the strains expected to hit. I get it at work and it's encouraged as it reduces work loss and protects those too weak to resist the flus successfully.

Do your bit!! I am!!

man - that's a little too "after school special" isn't it!! LOL

Seriously - we need to keep the flu down so think about it.

[QUOTE=GlenW]

ok - where in the study did it say nobody committed suicide while taking placebo?

[/QUOTE]

On Strattera's manufacturer's (Eli Lilly) own site? Thats the first place I looked to check it out.

http://newsroom.lilly.com/ReleaseDetail.cfm?ReleaseID=175142

Balanced may not post links to what he says, but he does have the facts straight as far as I can see.

Please note its .04, not .004 which I realise may well have been a typo or innocent miscalculation in your earlier post, but there's a rather large difference - so needs attention.

In reply to CSMommy

["You find me a group of 1000 that does not have 4 people with suicidel thinking."]

Even without an expectation that 4 in any group of 1,000 people are going to be suicidal and going only on the study figures:

Presumably then, the placebo and its inactive components are effective in preventing suicidality (and should be used as treatment) or Strattera causes suicidality.

As far as I can make out. ?

curus38642.6812615741It made little difference in him at all. Even though we increased his concentration he still struggles. He doesn't comprehend well. He also is a hands on learner to tell you the truth. Working with him is hard cause he gets frustirated cause of lack of understanding. He gives up and becomes a behavior issue for Mom. We will not punish him for that like staff think we should. He also has a bad temper like his whole family and the med. made this worse.

Staterra was given to him for concentration, but since it made the hyperactivity much worse, of course, it also made the concentration worse, and thus, was totally ineffective for us.

ANy positive reactions to Strattera?? It seems, for the most part all MED's get bashed, probably rightly so but is there any med that is well tolerated? We are trying strattera this weekend out of desparation.

[QUOTE=pastmember/Bren]I refuse to medicate to help teachers out.[/QUOTE]

How about medicating to help children out?

I refuse to medicate to help teachers out.

Yippy Skippy!!I went on stratera,and it has good aspects, as well as, the negative aspects.I took a dosage of 80 mg ,and my eyes were dialating.Then I lowered the dosage to 40mg,and I am fine,but I think I could go to 60mg.I reacted right away with this medicine,and I like it alot.I read what they said about the Stratera,however medicince works diffrently with everyone.I am 21 years old and not a child,so it has a different affect on me.I have been on it only a month,howver my friend with ADHD has been on it for 2 years.

So hopefully, I will be on this medicine for a while and continue to have no problems,but more help for my ADHD.When I was on concerta before it made my anxiety disorder and depression worse,and stratera makes me feel happy,and not stressed or depressed.Concentration meds made no difference in my wifes education at all. Just ask her. She would tell what made the difference is the schools and teachers she had. To all who have had their kids on meds and those who have not yet...... I am not a professional and my son has never been formally diagnosed (he is 7 and his school is doing psychological testing now.). A friend from church who has 2 ADHD sons told me just the other day that when she first saw my son (at age 2)she thought I had my hands full, because not only did she sense he was ADHD but he was a smart kid. Anyway, his real problems started as soon as he started Pre-K, the structure and need to concentrate on something for more than just a few minutes. I started him then on a very good multi-vitamin and a few weeks later on another supplement including grape seed, grape skin, gingko, and bilberry. His behavior did not get a lot better until he was in kindergarten, and he was much better until this year (second grade) when his behavior was horrible, uncontrollable outbursts etc. I started him just a couple of weeks ago on Omega 3's (phytosterols and fish oil). He (knock on wood) has not had an outburst since. My point is this: there are many medications out there, and most of them have some significant side effects. I'm not saying they don't have their place, but my advice is that there are MANY natural supplements and even some simple (but hard to do with a kid) diet modifications that can make a difference in a child. It's up to you, but I would do just about ANYthing to keep my child off of those meds - and I HAVE found something that has made his behavior manageable again! As to the person about the bed wetting...my son is still wearing a pull-up at night....but it's getting better. I also plan on taking him to a chiropractor, which I've heard CAN have an effect on ADHD as well (not always, but certainly can't hurt).This is true most adhd people need spine manipulation therapy cause they are out of alignment in a lot of different areas. The xray shows the problem areas. Wild: look at the childs diet also. Remove dyes, refine sugars, preservatives,additives. Some kids can't process these well. Allergie testing also helps we found son has lots. pastmember/Bren38649.3347337963Helped at school only. My son has been on strattera for a week now. His teachers say the difference is huge and he was able to participate in his kindergarten halloween party w/o incident, i.e no racing around the room, grabbing things, squirting his juice everywhere. So here is my concern. While the school is happy, at home my little guy is over the top more easily frustrated. He is incapable of waiting for anything. Before he would complain about not getting his way or sulk a bit. Now it is full blown tears ala a 3year old. So in school he is a changed boy but at home he is my normal hyper guy times ten. We are giving it a month. After we run the gamut of alphabet diagnosis and drugs maybe they will have to come up with something else to control him in the classroom. By the way, he is incredibley sweet and kind and has a vocabulary of a child twice his age. I have to remind myself of these positives now and then!

[QUOTE=juliemom]ANy positive reactions to Strattera?? It seems, for the most part all MED's get bashed, probably rightly so but is there any med that is well tolerated? We are trying strattera this weekend out of desparation.[/QUOTE]

As I mentioned earilier in this thread, my son is doing wonderfully on Strattera, has been for 2 years. My son cannot handle a stim, but does very well on Strattera. He is happier, sleeps better, gets straight A's, is more creative, better at sports, & handles social situations so much better on then off.

Just to let you know, we gave him a month off meds this summer. When we started up again, just like the very first time we started, my son slept through most of the first day. After that it was smooth sailing. Since it is a ramp med, you will see different (positive) changes in him each week. For us, the 6th week the first time going on, & the 4th week were where he really clicked with it.

I wish you the best.

I have been on Strattera now for about 2 months with good luck. Doc started me low and has built up to the 60mg dose. It has helped me and my family has even noticed it more than I have! I have been on the 60mg dose for about a week and a half. He wouldn't put me on the higher dose unless I could get my weight above 100lbs, which is a struggle for me. I have rheumatoid arthritis and low blood counts which adds more challenge.

I can stay focused better and the excessive hyperness has slowed down. I'm 43 and have been this way all of my life. (Was diagnosed by my daughter's nueroligist with it in the mid 90's but I never followed up on it. And, back when I was school age, you were labeled "hyper" and that was it!;-)

The main reason I agreed to give it a try was because it is non-stimulent and I am a recovering alcoholic (4yrs). So, of course I wanted to stay clear of anything with stimulants. I really haven't noticed any side effects (of course my appetite was already bad!) and am glad I gave it a try. It does take time so be patient and give it several weeks:-)

And, my husband says that I don't "squirrel cage" nearly as often.LOL In case you don't know what that is-just imagine a couple of squirrels chasing each other inside of your head! :0

Hope this helps. Take care,

mommabird

mommabird38647.3338425926

Lots use it well - others not so much.

It works on a different receptor group in the mind - so I think some who have plenty of one will be helped by the other. Trial and error like most meds.

It's like anything reviewed. People eat out - and the restaurant is lousy - they tell all. Restaurant is good and they keep it to themselves. I think it can be like that - we tend to be more likely to voice criticism than to voice compliments. Sad but true.

My son started on just 18mg of Straterra, and in a couple of weeks, he was way, way more hyper. He is 9 and was biting my younger son and running around non stop. Needless to say, we stopped it. Obviously not right for him.

Sorry I missed all the replies. I appreciate your answering. It is 1230 here and my 5 year old is now in our bed...he has adhd too. I'lll look for further updates. sorry about the grammar. typing without my contacts in.

I just wanted to say that I am really glad I found this site. Between this and friends who are in the business of finding alternatives to medication, I realize that I will never medicate my child. He has many of the same symptoms. He hits and kicks sometimes, but most of the time he is verbally out of control (he is a very smart kid...he is 7...and he is very verbal, so although some of the things he has said are horrible, it's better than having him physically hurt someone). He is not on medication and we are working with his diet and natural supplements to see if we can get him better. He has a definite attention problem, and is very impulsive, but we think part of the impulsiveness and "fits", at least the out of control ones, always happen after he has had sugar on an empty stomach (duhhhh!). After reading all of the things people go through with the medications, it really doesn't seem like it's any better than what we are already going through. If any of you have not read a book by Dr. Mary Ann Block, called "No More ADHD", I would strongly recommend it. My son has been on some supplements for almost 4 years that I know have helped with his focus and attention (even though he still has a problem and brought home about 14 pages of unfinished work from the past 2 weeks). The Omega 3's I give him I know are good for his brain, and I am just now starting him on magnesium so we'll see how that goes. It is a long hard road to try to figure out what is beneath the ADHD symptoms, sometimes it can be food allergies, yeast, nutritional deficiencies, etc., but it is well worth taking the time to avoid putting him on mind-altering medications. I'm not saying that medication is sometimes necessary, but I just believe in trying ALL OTHER OPTIONS first. Sorry for rambling!

My daughter takes a mixture of Adderall and Straterra and we have found no suicidal side affects. I have known others who have had their children on either Stratterra or Concerta and they became very violent. However both of those children were also diagnosed bi polar as well as ADHD. So perhaps there is a corilation there.

As for putting your child on meds. I have to say that I am slightly offended by the way the statement is put. We are all here to do what is best for our children. Some of us choose meds and others take a more natural approach. I don't think either way is wrong. I have tried both. And the meds seem to be what helps her the most. Our daughter is not in school anylonger I home school her now and she still is on meds. We tried taking her off but the truth is that school is not the only situation where children with ADHD have problems. Without meds she can't function socially with other children. Without meds even in a non traditional educational environment she can't learn. It's when she is off her meds that she becomes depressed because she can't think, she can't learn. Meds are not for everyone, but there is a population out there that have good success with meds and I don't think they should be judged for that.

I too, think you need to look at all options, but when you do choose meds, it is hard because a lot of people seem to look down on you. After reading what I have, I believe that the effexor and strattera together caused my daughter to become worse, but am really concerned that strattera alone is probably not good. She was on concerta before and I need to look back as to why that did not work. It is a murky area that we tred as parents, trying to "case manage" our children vs just getting to parent them. I often feel overwhelmed by the enormity of the task but know this is my path and I need to be diligent. I'll keep reading but have to go now. Thanks to all who care enough to answer. We will not agree and of course, as each individual is different, it will not be the same for all of us. As to natural remedies, I believe that my nephew benefitted from a milk-free, yeast-free diet (he would literally try to climb the walls when he had these things when he was younger), but he was also on Ritalin. Both of these things were vital for his care. Peace to you all

Good for you willie!!

Very well put. And for a parent watching their child flounder where all you desire is they flourish it's not only frustrating but depressing and overwhelming as well!

Stratterra was designed, I believe, to allay the fears of the public due to this anti-ritalin backlash and create a non-amphetamine solution. It's nowhere near perfect and can't help many - and now we are seeing more severe side-effects than ritalin ever had. A few isolated injuries by MD's not diagnosing and monitoring and all children have to suffer - that's just obscene.

Glad to hear the positive side of your nephew. Milk is no good for children (it was designed to make small calves into big cows not baby humans into adults) so that's always a good thing to do. The Ritalin helps SO many - the anti-med people just don't wish to see that. Glad you go through this with eyes wide open and are willing to try whatever it takes for your child. That's admirable and I applaud you!!!

Hope you come back soon!

Willie,

It's KathyB. Matthew (my 7 year old son) was put on wellbutrin because it can help adhd as well as depression. The stimulants his doctor tried him on at first made his anxiety much worse and he would have fits of rage. It made his depression worse too. Wellbutrin isn't an SSRI, it deals with norepinephrine instead of seratonin. When Matthew started backsliding recently, his doctor put him on an SSRI to go along with the wellbutrin (Matthew had been getting real aggresive and down on himself again). Now my husband is on this combo (he suffers from depression) and it does wonders for him, he is fine! So, I thought this will be great it will solve everything just like it did for his dad. WRONG!!! Matthew got more aggresive and down on himself. He had an A/B average in school (even with his inattentiveness, he's very bright) but started bringing home D's and F's . The second week he was on the SSRI he came home with 16 pages of incomplete class work! Well, I found out from the doctor and the posings here that SSRI's are not good for bipolar patients. They rage or and/or cycle badly. So, now we are looking at possibly bipolar and now he is on a mood stabilizer to see if that will help. I guess that will tell the tale. But you've already read how the first two days have gone. His Dr. said it would be ok. to leave him on the wellbutrin because it is not an SSRI. About your daughter, Matthew pushes, hits kicks and yell at me too. However, I know he loves me very much. one of his biggest fears is that something bad will happen to me or his dad or sister (anxiety). When he is not having a fit he is so sweet. I know your daughter loves you too. But you are right that they can't control it. I try to talk to Matthew a lot about his feelings. He has told me that when he gets angry he feels like someone is stabbing him on the inside. He also said that "ever since the day I was born I wanted to kick everything in sight". He said, "even before I was born too because you said I kicked you when I was in your tummy!". I explained to him that that was something different etc. It must be so frustrating and frightening for these little guys. When your daughter sys or does something hurtful just remember that it's not really how she feels. Matthew has told me he hates me a million times and then turn right around and pick me some flowers from the yard! Also, Matthew has a big fear of abandonment too. He still sleeps with us. He is scared "bad guys" will come and get him at night if he is in his room and we won't know.

Your child may have anxiety too. It might NOT just be due to her being adopted. Hang in there.

KathyB

kathyb38702.8730787037

Hi. I've never been on your site before but am at my wit's end. My daughter has been on Strattera since summer. One time when we were running low on it, she seemed to do worse, so we felt like it must be helping. This past month she has been more down on herself, feeling like she doesn't fit in,etc. the psychiatrist suggested we try Effexor. She was on it for about two weeks and started getting very arguementative, tearful, and despairing to the point where I called the doctor and we stopped it. That was last Friday. By Wednesday she was aggressive,verbally and physically aggressive. The doctor wanted to start her on seroquel and the fear is that she got worse on an antidepressent so she is probably bipolar. I started her on twice a day strattera with increased dose of strattera. She seemed to get worse. Last night she was so out of control that she was pushing and kicking at me at a school concert. My daughter is adopted and has lots of abandonment issues, but the mean and cruel things she is saying are so hurtful. She states she can't stop, yet at school she was able to be polite and friendly to her friends. When I read some of the notes here I realize it might be the Strattera. I am a registered nurse, but as a mom I am floundering. There are times when I cannot stay in the room with her. She scares me. Any similar situations?

willie38702.8254050926Dr. Block came very reccomended the problem is takes no insurance and her 4 day visits are 3,000. dollars total . I have 3 tests our son lacks cause Dad won't pay them.He says he is just like him a Active child. Denial you See. . They him and his family believe like some this is not real. In there eye just let a kid be who they are. RN The only way I can truely get him what he needs his to leave the relationship. He says all I wanted to do his play so that's ok. I disagree. Thanks for letting me vent. RnWhether denial or apathy is applied, those that need treatment are the ones that suffer, plus anyone that they try to have a relationship with.

[QUOTE=Curious_Boy]This is my first time posting on an ADHD board. I haven't read all the posts in this particular topic, but I just wanna say a few things from the perspective of a 17 year old who has been taking ADHD medication for 12 years.

I was diagnosed at age 5 and put on Ritalin until I was about 11. Ritalin was great, but it killed my appetite. On the days that I forgot to take it, I ate like a horse. However, that wasn't why I stopped taking Ritalin; I switched to the newer Concerta because my doctor thought it would respond better to it.

I really like Concerta, it lasts 12 hours (give or take 30 minutes), and doesn't peak or anything; it's smooth throughout the day.

During the summer of '04 I was put on Strattera, as I wanted to just see how it worked. Don't worry, this was all handled very professionally. I don't want my casual references to "I was put on ___" to seem like I'm another statistic of overdiagnosed ADHD.

Anyway, for 9 or so years before Strattera I've been acutely aware of how my body reacts to Ritalin / Concerta on and off the medication. I can tell within 1 minute when the pills have kicked in (esp. with Concerta) and I can tell when they wear off. I know of the mild personality suppressing (more like numbing, a block without sharp edges) qualities of ritalin / concerta. Basically, I know how I respond to the medication.

Now, to the point of this reply: I reacted very poorly with Strattera. Within two days I had very awful mood swings. I was playing video games with my dad, and he'd crash the car and I would just start screaming and crying. For a mature 15 year old, this was very abnormal. About 5 minutes later I felt very sleepy and I had a small nap. I woke up, told my dad I was feeling much better and then BAM I started crying again. I knew this wasn't me, and I knew this was Strattera.

When one is experiencing a medication-induced mood swing, one is aware that this isn't a normal reaction, but can't stop the overwhelming urge to cry or scream or smash the nearest thing in sight.

So I went back to Concerta, and I'm still on it today. Strattera just responded poorly with my body. Oh, and I don't remember the dosage of my Strattera, sorry. However, I'm on 2 x 32 mg Concerta today.

Sorry if this post is out of place or just like another one, I just felt like giving a lil anecdote of my experiences.

-Curious Boy
[/QUOTE]

Actually this helps. Did the Strattera make you very moody in the mornings? My 6 year old is on it right now, and he is the grumpiest kid I have every seen. He was on Concerta before, and it worked, then they switched it becuase he lost 18 lbs in less than a year. Then they tried Ritalin XR 10mg, and that mad him pick at his skin, chew on his shirts, and anthing in sight, on on his body. Did you have this symptom?

Hi- I would like to notify you of a new video on ADHD Being in Control: Natural Solutions for ADHD, Dyslexia, and Test
Anxiety (Book & Video) by Jason Alster MSc ISBN 9659025130 is now with
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Anyone in Tx took the child to Scottish right and what did they conclude. Pm and let me know. You're right about that! My son comes home with a lot of GARBAGE and I know he doesn't just think it up on his own - and because of they way he "is" he picks up everything and thinks it's funny.....and it's NOT! I say I may be in the position to home-school him next year; however, there is always the convincing my husband that it is a good idea part!!

I was also concerned abou the socializing until someone put it to me this way. How does a child learn to be well rounded socially when they are only aruond other kids their age? And, if you could sit down and interview all 20 or so kids in your child's class, how many do you think you would really WANT them to be around 6 hours a day? Children can learn to socialize in many different environments with many different age groups. It's not bad for children to socialize with adults, eldery, younger children. If anything I think it makes them more social. There are sports not sponsored by the school, but most districts allow home schooled children to participate in their sports. Tim Tivo recently was one of the most sought after college draft picks for football this year. He lives in our county and has been homeschooled all his life but played football for the local highschool. He had his pick of colleges and chose University of Florida. GO GATORS!! Anyway, back to the subject, kids will get just as much social time, if not more productive, out of school as they would in.

You think just like I do. Give the child a environment that works for them and sucess will happen. My problem is our son will buy if he likes their food better. The school will not help with allergie control issues. They say send the lunch. No kids wants to be different. School at one time was to teach to mastery and now it's just teach to test.Some here dislike Pat wymans materials in the difference in testing vs learning. I agree with what she says. No one can be a true sucess until basic mastery happens. The iep to me is a check list/accomidations. The truth is they need to do til mastered. Bored No cause you find stuff that best suits how he/she learns and he goes at his pace not others. The other things is we all have gaps that don't get filled in. Hs can fill the gaps. I say find a hs book fare usually aug. and may. They have classes you can attend to see different material options and how they should be taught. If you think he/she will be happier I say do it. RnHs kids usually exell more social wise and in academics. Public education isn't a sucess for all it was not for me. I made the best in private schooling. We all can't afford this route so Hs is the only other best choice one has. Hs is classified as private education. There is also satelite schooling to help.My thing is how is it possible when they are being around kids who have no manners either. Our son favors his scouts friends cause he can be real there and not get in trouble for it either. We see how he is when school is out and he is way different then. Not as bad behavior wise. RnReally what ever happened to No sugar foods in elementry. I also notice schools say one thing and do another I dislike this also. We are trying to have them learn good etiquette not rebel behaviors. Our kids had well behavior in preschool cause there it was mantatory.

I also know hs kids can do more social wise cause they can go on field trips monthly with the hs coop. Hs allows a kid to go at their pace no one elses.

Meds don't fil gaps and just cause you use them doesn't really deal with the real issue. when Ld is a concern also.

oldtimer38705.5425578704Yes - I am glad I found this site as well. I have always said I didn't want to medicate my son, but after reading some of these things and reading the book No More ADHD, I know that I never will. My son has a definite problem, but it's certainly not bad enough to medicate. Fortunately if we can't get a handle on his behavior at school, I should be able to be in the position to home-school him next year (although we are trying to avoid that, because he really does need the daily social interaction). There is also a good web-site for teachers (if you have one that is willing to take the time to work with your child) called www.addinschool.com. I am waiting to see what the Psychologist we are seeing says about my son and then I plan on studying this web-site and making suggestions to his teacher. She is a great person and I think would do anything to help him!If a child is in school for social reasons. Remember they are also coming home with stuff you don't wish them to hear either. I would much rather kids be socialized in stuff that's a better example for them. They can be with Hs coop kids for field trips and classes also. [QUOTE=Butterflymom27]

[/QUOTE]

I didn't plan on coming back to this forum...but for some reason I bookmarked it, and here I am. I don't honestly remember anything about Strattera except for that one episode I mentioned. That summed up the entirety of my Strattera experience. Picking, yes. I thought that was just a "me" thing, but I do find myself picking at things. If I have a bump or scab or hangnail or anything, I tend to pick at it. Chew on shirts? Hm... Gum might work. I never had this symptom. These medications chemically alter someone, so every single medication WILL cause changes. The only thing I can advise (I have absolutely no authority on this, just so you know) is that medication be altered slowly. I have had the unfortunate experience of doubling my Concerta dose one day, and it was AWFUL. I was hyperfocusing on everything, on my thoughts, on the shape of the leaves, on the way my eyes focus to see these leaves...as if my body existed only to serve my thoughts...my emotions were mute.

You mentioned weight loss. Yes. I still find it hard to eat. I have to really force myself to eat. It's not that I'm starving myself, I just don't feel hungry! I eat a bit...and then I'm full. I know that Concerta causes this because on those days that I forget to take it, I eat like a horse. The reason you kid lost weight was because he didn't eat as much. I'm pretty sure that Concerta itself won't make him lose weight.

You may want to switch back to Concerta if it was working. I'd rather be a bit underweight, having to focus more on eating, and Normal than of average weight and totally out of control.

My thoughts again. I am not a doctor, just a 17 year old boy.

-Curious Boy
bump

I told his teachers that I will home-school him before I will medicate him. They think I am just running away from the problem, but it's not that. My son is very smart and can do all of the work. He just gets too distracted in the large classroom setting. The only thing that the teachers don't think would be good, like you said is the socializing, but where I live there are a lot of home-school groups, and we have a lot of friends from church too (many of them also home-school), so I don't think that's a problem. The other reason to home school is having more control of their diet, because I know that is a big part of my son's problem, and I can't totally control what he eats at school (and they offer WAY too much JUNK food these days). I still think he would be bored with me at home though, so we'll just have to see how the second half of Second Grade goes for him!

I know that it's not possible for everyone to do this, but I have founf that homeschooling has worked very well. I agree that the school expect the teachers to teach things just to past tests that get the schools a grade with inturn gets them more funding. Meanwhile you have kids that are left desperately behind. Our daughter had an IEP and would go to her IEP class for reading. Well while she's at reading the class is doing math so when she gets back she has to catch up to that. So what you have is a child who is constantly behind and trying to play catch up and will never be up to speed with the class. Then they end up bringing all their work they didn't get done home. It's insanity!!

You can effectivly homeschool a child in just three hours a day. Which I didn't believe either. But when you take out all the extra stuff and time spent going here and going there, and the distractions, you can get so much more done. You can also focus on a certain area. She is in the third grade and should be doing times tables according to her grade level. But she is not ready. She had yet to master addition when the school would have expected her to start multiplication. And I think we all know that children with ADHD have their good times of day and their bad. So you can tailor the times they do school work around their good times. I never thought I could have done it. And when I made the decision to try it I was terrified. But it's really been great. And I have learned so much too. I totally missed the solar system in grade school. Must have been one of those days I was day dreaming out the window. Now I can name all the planets etc. It's exciting to learn right along with them.

i wish i had been home-schooled (excepting the social part) i just know learning one-on-one suits me as an ADDer down to a T.

i think the only drawback for me might have been learning how to be sociable and all those things that you pick up from being surrounded by your peers rather than adults --- so i guess you have to be careful to make sure that the child also has adequate 'kid-time' with other children and learns how to interact because that can be as important as anything else in the 'real' world --- and it can be very painful to be an isolated 'weirdo'.

but yeah, i think it is great you are home-schooling your child. what a brilliant thing to do....

This is true about those that need the help are the ones that are suffering. I figure my son got his problem from me - of course nobody ever said I had a problem, a bit anorexic in high school, a little obsessive compulsive, and never stop moving - only slight problems back then. I think part of the problem is that kids are expected so much more today than they were back then, and the teachers are too, so all the kids really need to be as much the same as possible so the teachers can teach and the schools can get good ratings. I found out just yesterday after reading my son's report from the school psychologist that what he thinks the teacher and his parents want most from him is to do better with his school work, which tells me that his outbursts are most likely because he feels pressured to do everything and reacts inappropriately when he has a problem doing so (and the inapproriateness of his behavior has gotten out of hand). I wish I could tell the teacher to just let him be, and what he doesn't get done in class, he has to bring home as homework (because he CAN do the work, and at home it is much easier for him - less distractions), but to allow him to be the only child in the class to do that doesn't seem quite right either. We are seeing a psychologist in a couple of weeks. I hope he has some suggestions - and I would welcome any from any of you as well. We are adding some magnesium supplements to his diet - which I'm hoping will help, but I don't count on it instantly making him able to finish all his work at school. Sorry - too long again!!Strattera made a huge differences with my son in school in addition to the stimulant medication (low dose). Right now though, I am not sure if it is a pre-teen thing (he is 10), he is moody, and trying very hard to blame everyone else for his wrong doings. I am not sure what to do with him. We are adjusting meds. The reports on Strattera scare me to death. I am ready to put us on a plane to somewhere, someone who has the best answers. Know anyone??

Past.

you have a good thanksgiving
bugzappers38678.8203935185This is my first time posting on an ADHD board. I haven't read all the posts in this particular topic, but I just wanna say a few things from the perspective of a 17 year old who has been taking ADHD medication for 12 years.

I was diagnosed at age 5 and put on Ritalin until I was about 11. Ritalin was great, but it killed my appetite. On the days that I forgot to take it, I ate like a horse. However, that wasn't why I stopped taking Ritalin; I switched to the newer Concerta because my doctor thought it would respond better to it.

I really like Concerta, it lasts 12 hours (give or take 30 minutes), and doesn't peak or anything; it's smooth throughout the day.

During the summer of '04 I was put on Strattera, as I wanted to just see how it worked. Don't worry, this was all handled very professionally. I don't want my casual references to "I was put on ___" to seem like I'm another statistic of overdiagnosed ADHD.

Anyway, for 9 or so years before Strattera I've been acutely aware of how my body reacts to Ritalin / Concerta on and off the medication. I can tell within 1 minute when the pills have kicked in (esp. with Concerta) and I can tell when they wear off. I know of the mild personality suppressing (more like numbing, a block without sharp edges) qualities of ritalin / concerta. Basically, I know how I respond to the medication.

Now, to the point of this reply: I reacted very poorly with Strattera. Within two days I had very awful mood swings. I was playing video games with my dad, and he'd crash the car and I would just start screaming and crying. For a mature 15 year old, this was very abnormal. About 5 minutes later I felt very sleepy and I had a small nap. I woke up, told my dad I was feeling much better and then BAM I started crying again. I knew this wasn't me, and I knew this was Strattera.

When one is experiencing a medication-induced mood swing, one is aware that this isn't a normal reaction, but can't stop the overwhelming urge to cry or scream or smash the nearest thing in sight.

So I went back to Concerta, and I'm still on it today. Strattera just responded poorly with my body. Oh, and I don't remember the dosage of my Strattera, sorry. However, I'm on 2 x 32 mg Concerta today.

Sorry if this post is out of place or just like another one, I just felt like giving a lil anecdote of my experiences.

-Curious Boy
Just wanted to say that I have a friend that was taking Stratera. He was 23. He recently committed suicide. Not long ago he had asked his parents to take him off of it b/c he was feeling crazy. He was in the process of getting off the medicine. If you knew him, you would know that he would never so something like that, so it must have been a result of the medication, Stratera. I would not advise anyone to take it, because each person cannot react differently. God bless![QUOTE=Tater][QUOTE=csmommy]

What do you mean he was in the "process" of getting off the meds? This is one of the few meds you can just stop without having to taper off.

[/QUOTE]

ABSOLUTELY NOT!!!!

Strattera is a NSRI...in the same class as Effexor. You NEVER cold turkey an anti-depressant!

[/QUOTE]

Please explain.

My son went off Strattera in June, cold turkey, for the summer with no problems. He went back on in August, & it looks like we are going off again this month for good (his matabolism has changed so much & he would need too high a dose of Strattera to help him). His Dr. looked it up in this big med book & it said you can just stop this med. Any info I can show his Dr to the contrary would be helpful. Thanks.

Oh, BTW he is 10 & on 60mg.

[QUOTE=csmommy]

What do you mean he was in the "process" of getting off the meds? This is one of the few meds you can just stop without having to taper off.

[/QUOTE]

ABSOLUTELY NOT!!!!

Strattera is a NSRI...in the same class as Effexor. You NEVER cold turkey an anti-depressant!

[QUOTE=SBP0429] He was in the process of getting off the medicine. [/QUOTE]

I am so sorry for you & your friend.

What do you mean he was in the "process" of getting off the meds? This is one of the few meds you can just stop without having to taper off.

Watch out here it comes... I can see it now. I just know spd effects others just like adhd does. When you don't process well it effects a person in all ways cause, it's a lag meaning there brain missed something. My wife has this also. Well, I was on Effexxor for 3 years, and was "weaned" off of it by the doctor, and I still had negative side effexts, mostly dizzyness and brain shocks. So, we had to extend the weaning period for another month.

On the other hand, even a sister compound in a class of chemicals can be so different that it has other effects. I had heard you can cold turkey Strattera, too.

However, I'm of the opinion if you had to ramp up a head med, you should wean off of it, too. After the Effexxor exxperience, even more so now. To be on the safe side, read the label, and ask your doctor again, expressing your concerns.
Sorry, I meant that he was in the process of tapering off of the meds. Sorry for the confusion.

[QUOTE=SBP0429]Sorry, I meant that he was in the process of tapering off of the meds. Sorry for the confusion. [/QUOTE]

No problem.

Actually, this may help me, since I now know that having DS stop Strattera cold turkey may not be in his best interest. I hope Tater comes back & helps me out with the info he/she has.

I have a 13 y/o son who was diagnosed at 2 with a motor tic disorder at the time his neurologist did not want to jump the gun by also diagnosing ADHD as he was only 2 but we watched. I was fortunate to be able to diet control him till he was 8. By this time I had moved and he began seeing a new dr. Around 7 his ADHD was confirmed and it began effecting his schooling. However I was limited on what could be give to him as the motor tic disorder prevented him from taking all usual meds at that time ie: Adarall or Ritalan due to the effect it has on the central nervous system. So in addition to no cold meds, benedryl, having my son learn to swallow pills at a very early age because most liquid scripts have dye in them, we tried Clomidine not to be confused with Clonopin(sp?). This merely took the edge off his tics and hyperactivity. I was blesses with a wonderful school district who worked with me as far as redirection and was always willing to try different tactics to keep him focused. I was also lucky that my child fell on the gifted side of the ADHD spectrum as his dr. likes to call it. This medication stopped working by the time he was 9. He was at his max dose and you would have thought I gave him nothing. Then Strattera came out. He has been on that since he was 9 and I cannot say enough good things about the results. he has only needed 2 dose increases in 4 years and it was like night and day. It took about 2 weeks to see the change but it was remarkable. Aside from loosing about 5 lbs the first month he was on it which he put back on the following there have been no side effects.

Not all medication works for everyone. There are so many side effects on every medication not just ADHD meds. The best you can hope for is to do your research and take the long list of side effects with a grain of salt. My uncle worked for a drug company and told me that in order for it to make it on the list as a side effect it only takes 1 person in the study. I wish all parents luck and patience as being the parents of children with ADHD we are always being 2nd guessed by those who think we "drug" our kids to behave. Or have to fight the school district because a teacher may have to take an extra 5 mins with your kid. If it were a cut an dry illness like diabetes(god forbid) there would be a lot more understanding.

I'm so glad I found this site today.

Everymom...regarding your warning about potential urination issues with taking Straterra, I'd expand the warning to other ADHD drugs. I'm an adult who, when first starting Adderall (first month-6 weeks) first "had to go" all the time it seemed, and then swung the other way... had trouble urinating! Neither extreme lasted more than a couple-three days, luckily, and all was normal after that first month. Very strange though, and a side effect not mentioned by my doctor nor any of the common literature on side effects that I read. Luckily though, an acquaintance who had similar problems when taking Ritilan warned me about his experience so I wasn't surprised.

Re: FDA and SI with Strattera...Ask your doctor/psychiatrist who the Lilly drug rep is. It may be possible for you to meet with and get explanations and answers to questions. The drug rep from Lilly where I work is very knowledgeable about not only Strattera but other medicaitons as well. A good drug rep will have a wealth of information for you and can provide materials for parents and teachers such as videos and pamphlets. And the rep should be keeping up with their competitors as well. They can show you comparisons between their drugs and those of others. Ive seen strattera be the best thing to have happend for someone and also seen it not work as well as hoped. many drugs have a black warning label and they should be taken seriously(just like the warning on packs of cigarettes). That includes monitoring closely any changes in mood or behavior and staying in close contact with prescribing psych doctor.

Not sure if this has been mentioned, or even if its really relevant, but I'm going to throw it out there anyway:

I was talking to my doc about the increased risk of suicide on Strattera and antidepressants in general, and he (and I think many in the medical community agree) sugessted that the med itself doesn't "cause" people to committ suicide. Rather, sometimes the med relieves symptoms just enought to allow the pt. to act on previously masked suicidal feelings.... in other words they can treat the symptoms which have to that point prevented the person from committing suicide without treating the urge itself. This would also explain why people on a placebo don't committ suicide.

Its a little abstract, and the end result is the same, but it helps me to realize that the med itself may not be creating a suicidal urge. Still best to be cautious.

BTW I've had a good experience so far on Stratt 36mg 4 days.

My niece started with aderall but it did not have very good affect for her. She is on straterra and is doing well in school and doesn't have any bad side effects from it. In her case I guess it was the best choice. For my son who is going to be evaluated soon for adhd I am thinking about straterra...Thanks for all the great info and like all of you I guess it will be do what's best for your child... I wanted to tell folks about my son's brief experience with Strattera.
Within days of starting at a dose of 18 mg, he started having problems
with urination - specifically, after urinating and buttoning back up, more
urine would come out. As you can imagine, this was an extremely
embarrassing problem for a 14 year old to have to share with his mother
but I'm glad he did. At first I didn't make the connection with the Strattera
but then went online and found out there possibly was one. By this time
his psych had raised him to 25 mg. So I called the psych, and when he
called me back he said "Take him back down to 18 mg for one day and
then stop it." Case closed - he wants him off Strattera, period. Yesterday
was the day of the 18 mg. This morning I heard my son up at 6 a.m. when
he normally doesn't get up till 7. I asked what was wrong and, basically,
he had wet the bed.

This is a 14 year old, mind you, who has not wet the bed for YEARS.

My son's experience makes me want to issue a strong warning to parents
of younger boys. I am lucky that he's older and it was immediately cler
that there was something wrong. But what if you have a 6, 7, 8, 9 year old
boy on Strattera who still had bedwetting issues when he began on this
medication? How would you know where his normal bedwetting ends and
a problem with Strattera begins? Your son might really be having an issue
with the Strattera.

Perhaps this side effect is not as uncommon as Eli Lilly thinks it is, and
your Strattera-medicated son will never "outgrow" his bedwetting
problem. A scary thought, I think.

Diffy donna you are correct. SOCIAL ACTIVITIES CAN HAPPEN ANYWHERE. IF YOU HOME SCHOOL THEY CAN JOIN THE COP AND TAKE CLASSES THAT WAY. hOME SCHOOL GROUPS ALSO DO MONTHLY FIELD TRIPS. Glen the probiotics are what I am refering to for immune building. If the product isn't working it could be you have a immune disorder or a gi problem or Candida problem. All can effect the bodies immune function. TCMG :YOU ARE CORRECT ADD/ADHD IS THE SAME AS VISUAL PROCESSING PROBLEMS AND EVEN IRLENE SYNDROME. NOONE CAN PASS THE TEST WITH A eye MUSCLE PROBLEM. THIS PROBLEM IS VERY COMMON 1 OUT OF EVERY 4 PEOPLE HAVE IT IN SOME FORM. I use leftovers sometimes, I do hormel's Natural lunch meats w/cheese in a tortilla. salmon patties.Daniel eats well though always has pretty much. I make some ideas from southbeach diet.

DANIEL HAS SEVERE VISUAL ISSUES. THE WORST THE DOCTOR SAW. HE HAD NO VISUAL TRACKING WE HAD TO CREATE IT WITH VT. WE GOT IT FREE CAUSE HIS DAD MADE THE BOARDS THEY USED. VT INS. DOESN'T COVER.

MEALS FOR SCHOOL-high protein,vegs,fruit,water bottles.I bought the 2 sided container for the vegs. Bascially It is all the same you would eat at home but sent to school. His file at school shows all his allergies.

What do you send for protein? There are only so many types. Boiled eggs don't go over well! Do you send deli meats or what? Just looking for answers. We just got back from his psych appointment and of course the guy talked about meds and was offended that I wasn't interested. We're doing everything else first. He had a great day in school today - the first in a while - so I KNOW he can do it!Dear Papa Spot
I am glad you found a solution that works for you.

Homicidal thoughts...hmmm.....If you feel like it, please go to google.com and type in "Columbine school shootings drugs" and see if you believe anything that is written at the various sites.

Thanks.

THIS MESSAGE REALLY SCARES ME. MY ALMOST 7 YEAR OLD SON WAS JUST PUT ON STRATTERA ABOUT A MONTH AGO. IT HAS BEEN WORKING WONDERFULLY, HE HAS BEEN ON EVERYTHING ELSE BEFORE. I AM NOT SURE NOW WHAT TO DO ABOUT THIS. I GUESS I WILL MONITOR HIM FOR A FEW MONTHS AND SEE WHAT HIS EMOTIONS ARE LIKE.

Please get serious TCMG! If you google anything from toothpaste through aspirin there is a lawsuit out there by some group looking to profit from the minutiae of injuries that happen on the fringe.

All things manmade or natural will cause in a small number of cases illness or injury. The very second that a pharmaceutical company admits that there are some cases where their product could be a problem the lawsuits begin. The lawyers are out there to make money and as long as they are profit based (i.e. forever more) there will be suits to dig into the deep pockets.

Columbine was not caused by the medicine these kids took. It was caused by a combination of disconnected children, bullies, parents ignoring the clues and any number of other causes. Question how children get a hold of weapons. Question how children can run in the woods making videos of shooting up the place and practicing their final act without being noticed. Question how children can emulate nazis in their lives and not be recognized as troubled.

I can google proof that the earth is flat. I can google the fact that the moon landing was staged on a hollywood lot. I can google people who are totally convinced that the holocaust never happened. They aren't true and neither is about 90 percent of what you read.

On the subject of Strattera, the good news is that my normal sense of taste came back. I tried the med for two weeks-- losing weight and feeling lousy because 24/7 I had this nasty dirty penny taste in my mouth. It sounded like some people had side effects at first, so I was trying to stay the course and give it a real chance. Then, a few other side effects began to show up and I really didn't see any change in focus, etc. (Well, I was getting pretty good at focussing on the bad taste in my mouth!! but not much else more than usual.) I also got sick of people asking me if I was okay since I was really sleepy all the time. Since I went off the meds, the GI side effects went away pretty quickly. The others are going away as well. Since it has a long half-life, I expect it may take a while to go away totally. On the plus side, I now have a lot of jokes about bad tastes in your mouth and coins. So, I got that going for me...GlenW
I guess you are right about the lawyers. Please note that unlike the lawyers who are hovering to make a profit from injury from the ADHD meds, the doctors who took a stand and issued strong alerts for ADHD meds had nothing to gain and everything to lose. The integrity of the doctors issuing the strong FDA warnings for the ADHD meds is not at issue.

I am against it when the school system coerces parents to medicate kids with risky ADHD meds, as they did to us for eight years. We were lucky in that we constantly resisted the coercion and ultimately solved our problems with other noninvasive solutions that posed no risk whatsoever.

Columbine could of been avoided cause the kids in that class and the teacher knew what the 2 boys were up to. We have met Rachel's mom who died there. The boys brought in a video as a class project on tape of their plan. 4 days before they did it. To me I call this a problem with univolved parents! A teacher who failed to turn in the tape the day the tape was brought to school! This mom was here last year to talk with our jr. high/high school kids! She shared the story with us parent who choze to hear what parts we never herd on TV also.

Countrey kids are raised/trained how to use a gun!Very young!

Do not place all your hopes on the ADHD medicines for which the FDA has issued strong alerts. There are many other things to try!

Visit pulmonary/immunology specialist doctor and test for undetected asthma, and/or undetected allergies.

Visit a specialist optometrist and test for undetected vision problems such as insufficient ability of both eyes of maintaining clarity regardless of changes in position, distance, or posture. There are several more vision issues to test for. Please visit http://www.covd.org/membersearch.asp

Read up on ways to modify the environment to increase focus and concentration. How does your child learn best? I http://www.thomasarmstrong.com/multiple_intelligences.htm

The FDA has not placed any alerts on any of the approaches I just mentioned.

Please do not worry if you have bad results with this new medicine or if you decide that you want to reject the medicine because you cannot accept the risks mentioned by the FDA. There are a multitude of other things to try. All will be well. You are in our thoughts.
i have taken my son to the eye doctor and he has a lazy eye, that he wears corrective lenses for. He has also been to lots of doctors about allergies, gerd etc. I appreciate your support and have tried many things, i will keep trying until i get it right. medicine or not.Daniel has nystagmus in the right eye. Vt has helped some with this problem. Doesn't eye team either. He does have allergies also. A word of encouragement to all of you...Minutes ago I just found out that my son qualified to take Algebra 1 for seventh grade. (He qualified for Highest track for language arts too) This was a kid who was put in Title One after two weeks of kindergarten because teachers thought he could not pay attention. We fought the school system year after year. We said he he did not belong in Title One and did not deserve the ADHD label. This is a kid who defied all predicitions of doom. We found his underlying medical issues and got treatment. When the spcialist optometrist told us that he needed one visit to the doctor for three months, we paid out of pocket and sent him twince a week. We spent 40 minutes each day at home with vision therapy too! Our approach worked. Keep at it parents, your hard work will pay off!
Strattera also has sexual side effects that far out weigh its benefits. I'm currently on Adderall XR without any side effects

Hi,

I am writing you to tell you about an ADHD / ADD support group that is starting to thrive on a new website, http://www.DailyStrength.org.

ADHD / ADD Group: http://www.dailystrength.org/support/Mental_Health_Addiction /ADHD_ADD/

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And please forward this email to anyone you know that has ADHD / ADD or would benefit from one of our other 500 communities.

Our online support groups are a great compliment to the real-world support groups you may be involved in now. In the near future we are planning to offer support groups and other organizations great tools that will help them communicate with their members and stay organized. And we have a host of other projects planned which will make our site much more useful and effective than it already is.

I work with DailyStrength, which was started by three partners who met at Yahoo!, where they worked to create some of the biggest online communities on the web. The founders of DailyStrength know how to make successful online communities that are safe and anonymous. We're really excited to offer http://www.DailyStrength.org to the world.

I would be eternally grateful if you'd come check out the site, let us know your thoughts, and share this resource with others who it might help.

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Thanks in advance for your time and feedback.

Warm Regards,

Nicholas Jarrett

i lost my brother to strattera a few years back he just turned 10 two weeks before i guess he was part of the .04 it happend in 04 before they did that study we are currently working out a case against lilly they have their lawyer calm shes from the FDA which is not true

I am trying everything as well. I took my son,who is 8, back off of milk - sometimes that's easier said than done when they are at school and everyone around them is drinking it, but he's been pretty good about it. Also, by a friends recommendation I put him on some Omega 3's with a 500/100 ratio of DHA/EPA. He has been on those for 2 weeks now and I was told to give it 2-4 weeks to notice a difference. We're not 100% sure yet, but he seems to be better. I also started him on 100mg of magnesium glycinate a couple of days ago. I hesitated to try everything all at once for not knowing what was really working; however, we were getting almost daily calls/or at least notes from school and they were talking about sending him to another school and putting him in a self-contained class, and we really don't want to see that happen. He's also been on a grape seed/grape skin/gingko supplement since he was 4, which I'm not sure if it's made a difference in his focus, but he seems to have allergies and a runny nose when he's not on that, so we're keeping him on that one too, and of course he takes a very good multi-vitamin which I think all children need, given the foods most of them eat. In any case, sorry for the lenghiness of this, but I truly believe it is worth trying EVERYTHING natural before getting onto medications that have side effects of which you never know what you're going to get. It takes a lot more time and effort, but in the long run is so much better for everyone. It may be in the end you still need something else, but at least you know you did your best to try ALL other options.All that is excellent stuff you are using.it should help out.our son only takes vitamins now. Exercise also helps build the brain also. Carol kronowitz says hand on toys we all had are the best. Inter active stuff doesn't help that well there. For kids in the toddler age group and picky eaters try pedia sure. LOaded with vitamins also. picky adults drink protein shakes loaded with vitamins also. Don't forget you need enough minerals also. we love the sizziling minerals we won.

I've just found you have to watch out for some of the artificial things - especially sweeteners in most things. I don't know what's in the pediasure etc., but I do know that most children's vitamins have aspartame in them - and sucralose is a widely used sweetener as well. Many people think they are OK, but if you read a lot of the details and research, I believe they are not........

DANIEL CAN'T HAVE CORN SYRUP AND DIET IS THE ONLY WITHOUT IT. WE USE SPLENDA STUFF. HIS VITAMINS FROM MELALEUCA USE XYLITOL. HE IS HAPPY/LOVES HIS SELF CONTAINED CLASS AND IT'S MUCH BETTER THERE CAUSE HE GET'S THE 1 ON 1 HELP HE NEEDS WHEN NECESSARY. MAINSTREAM DOESN'T WORK WELL CAUSE OF THE LD ISSUES HE ALSO HAS.

That's funny - my son takes Melaleuca vitamins too - and the provex plus is the grapeseed product he takes. He took the Phytomega but a Melaleuca member said for what he has he needs something higher in DHA - so I bought something else. I'm lucky he will swallow large pills! We are considering the options of putting him in a self-contained class as well. I'm hoping the Omega 3's, the magnesium, and the lack of milk will help him so we don't have to, but I know if things don't change from what they have been so far this year, that will be the best option for him. As for splenda, all I know is what I've read, and of course there are two sides to every story. I do know that Aspartame is a lot worse, so splenda is better than that. I understand how hard it is to avoid corn syrup. It's in just about EVERYthing. We're just trying to eat more things straight from nature - fruits, vegetables, plain meats etc., and we try to avoid having too much bread or white potatoes (of course we can't live without our goldfish!).

Best of luck to you - and I think we're both at least giving our kids the best multi-vitamin out there!

My son has ADHD and anxiety. Our psychiatrist has explained to me that a very high percentage of children have these disorders together. He was on Straterra along with Focalin. Focalin XR did very well for him but it would wear off in the evening. The Straterra did a good job of enhancing the Focalin, when my insurance would not cover both he substituted anafranil. That seems to be working just as well. He is also on a low dose of paxil for anxiety. Having the anxiety medication helps, because with just a stimulant my child would get super anxious. This mix has allowed him to operate about as good as most other children.

MELALEUCA SUPPLEMENTS HAVE NO ASPARTAME. FRUCTOSE OR XYLITOL IS IN THERE STUFF. WHITE ANYTHING IS NON NUTRITIONAL. SON CAN'T HAVE 3 VEGS. OATS,PEANUT STUFF, YEAST, WHITE FISHES,COTTON SEED OIL. HARD TO LEAVE IT ALL OUT UNLESS YOU BAKE YOUR SELF. BOXED BAKEING IS BAD IT HAS THE BAD FATS .

ivanhoe39001.7953935185

Ivanhoe, ivanhoe, ivanhoe....

Melaleuca is a big scam. Get your vitamins at a bulk store you'll get the same ingredients at a fraction of the cost and you won't be supporting a pyramid scheme/religion at the same time!

What do you mean "white anything is non-nutritional"???? Cauliflower is white! I know what you meant - bread but frankly brown bread has a small amount of whole wheat added for color (and brown sugar often) - I worked in my cousin's bakery. Bread is carbohydrate! If a kid wants white processed bread just supplement with flax seed in other foods - it is very high in fiber! Same with the flavorless fiber substitutes that use items like guar fiber. Benefiber is one brand that is great and cheap!

Boxed baking has bad fats? No fat is bad in small amounts - even trans fats. Most baking has been transitioning to non-trans fats for a while now. Most labels on the brand-name stuff has the trans fats listed as to daily nutritional requirements (i.e. how much per day is ok) - so just stay below it for the whole diet. Kids aren't immune to heart troubles but a healthy kid shouldn't have to worry about trans fats. Give them a break! Fat isn't a kids enemy - builds all tissue, cartilage and most importantly BRAIN TISSUE - brain is 100 percent fat did you know that?

Ivanhoe
It is very hard to understand your post, with the capitalization and lack of grammar.

I strongly suspect that you and your son may need MORE vision therapy or MUCH BETTER quality vision therapy. I sincerely hope you will visit http://www.pavevision.org/
and get some advice about the vision issues. Call the PAVE (Parents Active for Vision Education) organization directly. Discuss your current vision therapy approach and ask for suggestions for improvement. Here is the contact info:
P. A.V.E.�

4135 54th Place, San Diego, CA 92105-2303 * Telephone (619) 287-0081* Toll Free (800) PAVE-988 * FAX (619) 287-0084 * Email info@pavevision.org

I agree that good nutrition is helpful and clearly it is very important to be aware your son's complex food sensitivities. Discuss this concept further at http://www.ablechild.org/board/?topic=topic1
I remember reading about successful homeopathic strategies there from a poster called Mary.

Let's stay on topic though. Let's talk about how the FDA issued strong warnings for the ADHD drugs but let's also talk about the FDA's cautious stance on "herbal remedies" to improve concentration. Parents ought to question the ADHD drugs and ALSO question the value of vitamins and dietary supplements being sold as remedies to improve concentration and focus. For instance, the FDA site states the following:
Snapple's "Moon" Tea Drink containing kava kava is claimed to "enlighten your senses." Kava kava has been a factor in several arrests for driving while intoxicated (DWI). It is also used in Apple "Eve's Tribal Tonics," "Relaxation Cocktail" and Hansen's "d�stress" sparkling drink. Ben & Jerry's "Tropic of Mango Smoothie" contains echinacea, which can cause allergic reactions, including asthma attacks, and may counteract the effects of drugs that suppress the immune system. Arizona's "Rx Memory Elixer" containing ginkgo biloba. This product is labeled as "mind-enhancing." Ginkgo biloba has anticoagulant properties Taking it with anticoagulant drugs may increase the risk of excessive bleeding or stroke. Procter & Gamble's "spire Energy with VitaLift Green Tea and Juice Beverage," containing guarana extract, is promised to provide "smooth, steady, sustained energy." The FDA has stated that guarana is not considered a safe ingredient for use in food. Visit http://www.nutriwatch.org/09Reg/cspi.html
Visit http://www.fda.gov/ola/2004/dssa0608.html
for more information about the FDA stance. Fully investigate these solutions, and see if they are TRULY backed by clinical research. Make sure you don't fall victim to trumped up claims by overeager vitamin manufacturers trying to exceed quota expectations.

Good luck!

I have not gotten Vt can't afford it. I know I have bad visual issues thanks. I am teaching my kids the difference in good vs. bad fats. I love the melaleuca stuff. Sorry you don't. We use a very GOOD therapeutic dR. i KNOW YOU ARE WHAT IS PUT IN THE BODY. I USE WHEAT FLOUR. CAULIFLOWER/BROCOLII/CABBAGE GOOD STUFF BUT SUPRESS THE THYROID ALSO. I HATE THE FDA ! HEALTH FOOD STUFF IS WAY BETTER. I love the Melaleuca stuff too. I have learned every day older that I get, that you pretty much always get what you pay for. It's not just the vitamins either, but getting the other toxic things out of your home can help as well (and certainly can't hurt), and so many of their personal care products are superior as well. Everybody has their preferences and is entitled to an opinion. Eating well is SO VERY HARD, especially keeping kids away from the junk that they are exposed to at school and the commercials on TV. We are having fish for dinner tonight! He doesn't like it much, but he eats it.ARE YOU AWARE ORGANIC FOODS ARE THE ONLY NONTOXIC FOODS?REGULAR FOODS ARE TOXIC FILLED. ORGANIC IS MORE CAUSE OF THE WAY IT'S GROWN AND THE SOIL IS TAKEN CARE OF. DANIEL HAS NO SCHOOL LUNCH ACCOUT.

I would love to know what you send him for lunch everyday. That has been the hard part. He has become picky. I have convinced him to drink only water with lunch, which he has to purchase for .50 every day. I would send him water, but he would forget to take it to lunch with him. Any kid-friendly lunch suggestions would be appreciated!

Im on dexamphetamines. Is that the same as your dexedrine? Anyway she only put me on 10mg for the whole day and it's just not enough to do the job.It's dextroamphetamine peita - yes same thing. There is two types - Adderall (dextroamphetamine salts) and dexedrine (dextroamphetamine sulphate) - the difference is the carrier they use to get it to your system. Not much difference in how effective it is.

My problem all along with our son is correct dx's. He has struggled in these areas language area,motorskills,social,academic. There are delays on all 3 areas. I had even a Ot tell me than your child is not adhd if these are what is occuring.

This drug helped none of this and from what Psm said it won't.

oldtimer38742.8286226852Yes our son was not like himself at all. The Ld person I spoke with said the parents she talks with say stims are the answer. We stopped cold turkey. We will not try any other meds until a correct dx happens.

Angela - I agree for those of us where hyper isn't our issue it seems to be like doping us up way too much. Since it works on the epinephrine (adrenaline) that seems to be where you need the work or it's no good.

I say we stick to what works. I think most of the Rx's for stratterra are from MDs who are so scared of the media's look at our meds. They'd rather not give what works and hope that the hype doesn't hit them.

I won't go off dexedrine. If they ever got it banned I'd be getting it somehow. If it works then I say do it!! The only ones who should be on alternates are the ones where our meds cause them grief.

Straterra is a really terrible drug.

I am a happy, energetic woman; it was aweful.

Angela

My 12 year old grandson ,who lives with us has been professionaly diagnosed with ADHD and has just been weaned off Strattera and is back on Concerta. We took him off the Concerta because of lack of appetite and he started on Strattera. Over a period of three months there were very negative changes. He became extremely depressed and sad and became very stressed, grinding his teeth at night and crying out with nightmares. He also became very angry and negative and started talking about .. His drawings were very frightening. All this was directed towards himself. There were several very serious meltdowns at school. He attends a special school for ADHD kids who also have dyslexia so they were very sensitive and concerned. We found a pschiatrist who specializes in medications for children with ADHD, dyslexia and depression who told us to gradually take him off Strattera and start him on a lose dose of Concerta.
The change has been dramatic although his concentration at school has not improved much at this stage. However, we no longer feel he is at risk to harm himself. He is quite calm and happy, appetite improved and no longer suffers from violent rages.. His father, too, is ADHD and is on Strattera as well although a much lower dose than what was prescribed to his son. It seems to work for him. Anyway.....it certainly was a frightening experience and I would really approach medicating any child with Strattera with extreme caution. The assumption that what will work for an should also work for a child is wrong.
Unfortunately it takes a while for the Strattera to build up and be effective and by then it the results could be devastating.

I'm so glad that I read all of this...I'm really new to the subject. My 4 year old daughter was just recently diagnosed, and it was suggested when she starts school she should begin medication like Ritalin and the like. I've started her on a herbal treatment, and have seen improvement, along with a no sugar diet. I will be very cautious next time the meds are brought up again, and will really research and think about it long and hard before I actually make up my mind. I'm quite set against the medication, and after reading these posts, it just makes me more leary.

Thank you!

I have a 6 year old son who has been taking strattera for the past 5 months, i noticed that he has been very teary and after talking to his teacher i discovered he is the same in school. He has now started talking about wanting to die, and how he could walk out infront of a car and he would be dead. I looked around on the net and found that this has become a common side affect with strattera. I rang his doctor straight away and she told me to stop the strattera now. This is not the only child she has had with these side affects. He now has to go back onto ritalin. Has anybody else had these side affects on strattera?

My 4 year old daughter has been taking two different kinds of supplements since she has been diagnosed that have helped her immensely. The more information I hear about all of these medications, the more horrified I am becoming. My daughter used to try to punch herself, kick doors, and since she's been taking these supplements, this type of behavior has stopped. If anybody is interested in trying them in combo with whatever meds they are on, please email me for more information. I'm not saying to stop whatever the doctor has recommended, but if something can help, I think it is worth a shot. My email is sberard11@shaw.ca

[QUOTE=sherber]

Thank you!

[/QUOTE]

I hope I didn't mislead you to think that all ADHD medication is bad. I have a 3.9 GPA (basically an A or mid 90% range) and a great healthy attitude to life because of Concerta. I know Concerta changed my life for the better. However, this thread is about the dangers of Strattera, so I only posted about that.

I know this section is supposed to be about parents talking about their children, but the most important aspect is feedback from the kids. You are all here because you want to help your kids. You want them to have a great healthy successful life. So please, listen to your kids. I know that some of them may not be able to successfully verbalize their reactions to ADHD, but please listen to them.

I have problems with my weight. I told my parents, and now they support me. They make sure I eat more. I'm glad they asked me how I responded to the medication instead of just switching me to a new one.

About High School - it's an education. Books and life. A healthy child should know the goods and bads of life. It's up to you as parents to tell them what is good or bad.

I hope I haven't offended or mislead anyone, I just want your kids to be happy. Hopefully your kids will respond like I did, because I'm living a great life on Concerta.

-Curious Boy

here's my story for strattera. My son was on it for 2 years. He is now 8. the med worked great for the first 5 or 6 months, then we had to up his dosage to right around 30 something mg.s then about 6 months later, upped again to 60mg! Went well, but over time (so slowly) we didn't realize how the meds were not really working Then he started getting into trouble alot at school. So, about 4 weeks ago, we took him off it and put him on adderall 10mg XR. Night and day difference. But the withdraws from the strattera were horrific! my little 8 year old was out of school for a week, was having thoughts of people killing him and him killing himself. After 5 nights of pure hell, the thoughts slowly stopped. Now he is back to his self. with less meds and happy, and he almost never gets into trouble. This is just our story. It may not happen to any one else, but it happened to us.

I hear it is not working well in most cases. This came from a LD specialist. In our son it totaly changed him like what ogram experienced for her son. Ours even got mad and broke a window. Our issue on meds with our son has been usually how it works it ends up doing the oppisite effect. I am not hearing anything good about many of these meds. I am choosing alternatives instead. Working better .

[QUOTE=oldtimer]I hear it is not working well in most cases. This came from a LD specialist. In our son it totaly changed him like what ogram experienced for her son. Ours even got mad and broke a window. Our issue on meds with our son has been usually how it works it ends up doing the oppisite effect. I am not hearing anything good about many of these meds. I am choosing alternatives instead. Working better . [/QUOTE]

the only med i was talking about is strattera. i don't know about the others. Adderall is working great!!

Strattera is what i am referring to also.

I am a 36 year old woman and was just diagnosed with ADD and am currently on Wellbutrin 300mg a day. When I started Wellbutrin ( for depression ) , I began to feel normal and alive again. However, my ADD was just out of control, so my Dr. put me on Stratera 40mg a day to start and then to go up to 80mg in a week. I could not even get through two days!!!! I feel terrible, after 30 minutes of initially taking it. I am in a sad, drunken state all day, I feel like I have a tight metal clamp on my head, my eyes feel weird, then I come home from work and cry and feel a huge lack of motivation. I am not going to take it tomorrow - I know that some say to try and get through it for a few weeks, but I can't. I don't even talk when I take it, I am like a zombie. I am just going to take the Wellbutrin, which has worked wonders for me and hopefully, when I go back to my Dr., she will be able to do something different for the ADD. Does anyone have any suggestions? I am really concerned and would like to get these ADD symptoms under control (obviously without taken Stratera).

Thanks, Pam

I take Wellbutrin and Ritalina.

Love the combo.

Best yet.

FDA Urges Stronger Warnings on ADHD Drugs

By JENNIFER CORBETT DOOREN Wall Street Journal
March 15, 2006; Page D6

WASHINGTON -- The Food and Drug Administration is calling for stronger warnings to discuss reports of psychosis or mania seen with drugs used to treat attention deficit hyperactivity disorder.

The FDA released an updated safety review of several ADHD drugs, including Johnson & Johnson's Concerta, Shire Pharmaceuticals Group PLC's Adderall, Eli Lilly & Co.'s Strattera and Novartis AG's Ritalin, which is also available as in generic form.

For the past year, the agency has been studying psychiatric and cardiovascular risks possibly associated with the drugs. The FDA review was posted to the agency's Web site yesterday in advance of next week's panel meeting of outside medical experts who will discuss the drugs.

Last month, another panel recommended that most of the drugs carry a black-box warning about possible links to heart attacks and strokes. Adderall already carries such a warning, discussing cardiac sudden death; Strattera has one about an increase in suicidal thinking. A black box is the FDA's strictest warning.

The FDA said stronger warnings are needed on the risk of psychosis, a mental disorder characterized by the inability to distinguish real and imaginary events.

"The most important finding of this review is that signs of psychosis or mania, particularly hallucinations, can occur in patients with no identifiable risk factors, at usual doses of any of the drugs used to treat ADHD," according to a memo dated March 3 from two members of the agency's ADHD psychiatric review team.

The review said current labeling neither addresses those concerns nor does it "clearly state the importance of stopping drug therapy in any patient who develops hallucinations or other signs or symptoms of psychosis or mania during drug treatment of ADHD."

The review found almost 1,000 reports of psychosis or mania possibly linked to the drugs -- which included Adderall, Concerta, Ritalin and Strattera -- from Jan. 1, 2000, through June 30, 2005. The reports were pulled from the FDA's database and from the drug companies themselves. The FDA had requested additional information from the companies for its safety review. Such reports don't necessarily mean the drug caused a problem.

However, the FDA said "in many patients the events resolved after stopping the drug."

The FDA also said a "substantial portion of the psychosis-related cases were reported to occur in children 10 years or less," an age group which the FDA said doesn't typically suffer from psychosis. It added: "The predominance in young children of hallucinations, both visual and tactile, involving insects, snakes and worms is striking and deserves further evaluation."

While the staff review recommended the issues be addressed in new labels, it didn't state whether the concerns should be addressed in a black box. Most ADHD drug labels, which are multiple pages written for physicians, do warn of the possibility of psychiatric events in some patients.

The FDA didn't release specifics on what the panel will be asked to do, such as addressing questions of how the drugs should be labeled.

But, Dianne Murphy, the FDA's director of the Office of Pediatric Therapeutics, said in a memo to the panel that the agency is "seeking your advice on how best to communicate potential risks to health care providers and parents when it has been decided a child would benefit from therapy for attention deficit hyperactivity disorder."

The FDA has been struggling to characterize the risks associated with ADHD drugs and how to communicate the risks to the public. The agency started a safety review of ADHD drugs last year after Canadian health officials temporarily ordered Adderall off the market after reports of 20 sudden deaths in patients, including 12 strokes. The drug later was returned to the market.

The number of psychiatric and cardiovascular events is small in comparison with the number of prescriptions. Information released by the FDA last month showed that 78 million prescriptions were written for ADHD drugs in children ages 1 to 18, and more than 14 million prescriptions were written for adults from 1999 to 2003.

Indeed, Lilly, which makes Strattera, and J&J said in documents that were also posted on the FDA's Web site their medications were safe and effective when used as directed, and they said the risks and benefits of the drugs need to be considered.

"Untreated ADHD is associated with severe consequences," said McNeil Specialty Pharmaceuticals, the J&J unit that makes Concerta.

ADHD is a neurological disorder in which people have difficulty concentrating or staying on a task to the extent that it causes impairment in academic, work or social settings. As many as 7% of U.S. school-age children are believed to have ADHD, according to government estimates. The disorder often is referred to as attention deficit disorder, or ADD, in adults.

Write to Jennifer Corbett Dooren at jennifer.corbett-dooren@dowjones.com

I've just finished "getting clean" from Wellbutrin XL 300mg (medicated for 11 years) with (for the past 15 months) Straterra.

And I have to tell you that I knew I had a 38 and 2 bullets and am awful glad I lost the key to the suitcase they're in!

It's been an AWFUL three weeks and I am still telling myself that intellectually I know (I guess HOPE) I am not really depressed that this is really just a living night terror and all those thoughts are just hollograms of fright and they don't really exist.

I am fine (this is all relative you know) one moment and the next in the pits. I see my shrink next Tuesday and hopefully we can come up with a better solution (medicinally speaking).

I went back on a VERY LOW DOSE (25MG) OF Straterra only because I couldn't stand the mental confusion anymore.

I heard that Provigil is about to be approved by the FDA for ADHD.

Hear of anyone on it for this?

You said: "And I have to tell you that I knew I had a 38 and 2 bullets and am awful glad I lost the key to the suitcase they're in!"

Thoughts about using a gun are dangerous thoughts. You are experiencing a reaction from your drug withdrawal. I support you in your attempt to withdraw from medication. Clearly the medication makes you feel far worse than you were before you took it.

Please find a medical doctor who also supports your committment to wean yourself off the drugs that cause a reaction. Drug withdrawals must be monitored very carefully by medical doctors who have experience in that field. Please tell your doctor all of your thoughts.There are specific medical remedies that only trained doctors can offer to help with withdrawal symptoms.

You might want to visit this site and interview the referred doctors, asking for credential information:
http://www.alternativementalhealth.com/

Write back. Have courage. Have hope! You have the power to fix your problems! You are in our thoughts. We stand behind you!

My 6 year old boy started Strattera about 5 months ago to help with his first grade work (so many papers came home crumpled up and scribbled on). The school work has been wonderful and the trips to the principal's office much less frequent, but lately has become so moody and borderline violent. I would try to find a link to lack of sleep or change in routine but having just found this website, I think it's the Strattera. I'm worried now and am trying to read everything I can and will contact his pediatrician for advice.
Thank you for all your postings and personal accounts.

qualified professionals perscribe drugs without batting a eye. doctors, pharmacists, and insurance copanys are working together, not on our behalf. people are killed because of doctors who miss diaognosis and make stupid mistakes. they love to write perscriptions, and there are enough out there for everything. the price of gas is NOTHING!Kara, if you are going to troll around leaving anti-med messages on message boards, could you please take the time to proof read your message?

The price of gas? There's a non sequiturs thread here:
http://www.adhdnews.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=18124& PN=1&get=last#199012
yes, our money in this country isnt going to be worth anything in a hand full of years due to insurance, medical and pharmicutical companys working together. im just saying that people are complaining about the price of gas, i can afford gas but what about insurance, doctor visits, & prescriptions. god forbid u dont have insurance. its a conspearcy.

It is elegal for staff to recomend medication of anykind for anyone. These people are not a MD. Vitamins are needed by us all try this first and a healthier diet. We use phytonutrients with a long the Southbeach diet. This helps and makes a great difference in our son. Check for food related issues before adding medacines.

My issue is dr.'s gives this med. to easily.

Many things can cause attention issues.

We all are to get a Free appropriate education by law remember this also.We all don't learn them same way either so what works for some doesn't work for all. My opinion is a person should be in a education that fits how that person learns best. To me a iep is just trying to force a circle into a square.

I have just been diagnosed with ADD, I am 50 and yesterday was my first day on Statera. I agree with what someone said about feeling like a zombie. I'm sad, down on myself, anxiety, head ache, the works and it's awful! Just one 25mg. pill! I don't want to take it again. I'm going in to see my therapist today and ask him for something else. I have not tried a stim yet but anything has to be better than this. I'm not hyper so I'm guessing he is going to tell me to try it for a while longer but I don't think I'm willing to do it. He told me on the phone that it probably wasn't the medication! But it was like day and night! And I'm not that way normally. I do not have huge mood swings that plant me on the couch for 10 hours! I do not sleep on the couch with the tv on to keep creepy negative thoughts away! This is not a normal reaction to this medicine as far as I'm concerned but I don't know anything about it, just that I'm not willing to feel this way on purpose! I'm worried he isn't going to listen, and I just feel like crying (every since taking this stuff) Anyone have any suggestions? Can Stratera be combined with a stim effectively?
Thanks, Fran
Hi Fran i have a 7 year old son who has ADD and while he was changing from ritalin to strattera he took both but as the strattera kicked in (after about 3 weeks) both medications were too much for him. But after about 3 months of being on strattera he was very tearfull and sad and he was also having suicidal thoughts so he stopped taking the strattera and went back onto the ritalin and hes doing fantastic now. It may be different for a adult and it is sometimes hard to get the right does but good luckI have a question.. How do they diagnose an adult with ADD?? What kind of testing do they do??Some of you might be interested in knowing that there is a website for parents who advocate a drug free and label free education, based on the findings of doctors.
If so inclined, please visit:

http://www.ablechild.org/

At this site, you can chat with parents who have successfully found lasting solutions for their "ADHD" labeled kids.

�Real knowledge is to know the extent of one's ignorance.�

Confucius

Thanks - I checked out that web-site and it's awesome. My son I believe would be labeled ODD (with a little ADHD) - that is if I believed in these labels. The only good thing I see in the labels, is they DO give you information on how to deal with these personalities without medication as well - and if anybody else has a child labeled as ODD - I have a good sheet of information that has helped me a lot!

[QUOTE=IMac]Kara, if you are going to troll around leaving anti-med messages on message boards, could you please take the time to proof read your message?

The price of gas? There's a non sequiturs thread here:
http://www.adhdnews.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=18124& PN=1&get=last#199012
[/QUOTE]

Good one IMac.

[QUOTE=kara]yes, our money in this country isnt going to be worth anything in a hand full of years due to insurance, medical and pharmicutical companys working together. im just saying that people are complaining about the price of gas, i can afford gas but what about insurance, doctor visits, & prescriptions. god forbid u dont have insurance. its a conspearcy.[/QUOTE]

Conspiracy?? Oh, geeze.

I think we should stick to the topic: FDA Warns About ADHD Drug Strattera.

Thank You.

-Curious Boy
Thank you all for your courtesy. I wish I had experienced courteous reactions in the past when I posted here. hello TCMG ---

have you also checked out annidagostini's crawling thread. this is really fascinating and she is having excellent results with it too! it's in the alternative and complementary thread here under the title Crawlers Unite!

it may not be anything to do with your son's problems but i think it is definitely worth checking out for you!

all the best

http://www.adhdnews.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=13546&am p;PN=1
chjones38865.4261689815Vision therapy is great it's the only reason our son can read. He had no tracking/eyeteaming skills at all. Lots better now. His reading speed is still slow though. He still can't keep his place. Still needs more of this. My parents never knew this existed. Thanks for the info. I am always eager to see the various things that seem to help struggling students.

Our son seems to be doing so well ever since he completed Vision Therapy in 2003, that we aren't looking for any new solutions.

I will post some info at alternatives.
well, i', just pumping down anti-rialin's thread.

[QUOTE=TCMG]You cannot find my posts because they were deleted.

http://www.pavevision.org/
http://www.blockcenter.com/

[/QUOTE]

and you wonder why they were deleted? lmao

IMac38942.918287037

REMEMBER A CHILD CAN HAVE SPECIAL NEEDS AND BE GIFTED.I SAW A BLIND/AUTISTIC GIRL PLAY PIANO. WAS ON TV. BY EAR LEARNER. TRADITIONAL MEDACINE DOESN'T TREAT THE WHY.REJECTED MEDICAL DX. IS A VIALTION OF THE KIDS/PARENTS RIGHTS. IGNORANCE IS A LOT OF SCHOOL STAFF'S PROBLEMS. THEY WANT TO BLAIM IT ALL ON ATTENTION. YOU CAN LEARN NOT JUST BY A WORK BOOK METHOD. IEP'S AREN'T COMPLETELY FOLLOWED EITHER CAUSE THEY THE STAFF HATE THE MODIFICATIONS.iN THE FUTURE SE WILL ONLY BEFORE ONLY THE SEVERE DISABILITY KIDS THANKS TO OUR US GOVT. TCMG, SCHOOL SHOULD BE WHAT YOUR NUMBER 2 SAYS. WILL NEVER GET THIS WAY CAUSE THEY WANT TO SAY LACK OF MONEY IS THE ISSUE. NOT OUR PROBLEM AS THE PARENTS/STUDENTS. ALSO i HAVE FOUND OUT SIDE EVALUATIONS THEY IGNORE. BEEN TOLD THEIR FINDINGS IS WHAT THEY GO BY ANYHOW.

DAN DR'S WILL SAY THE PROBLEM IS A TOXIC SOCIETY!

I SEE US LOOSING OUR RIGHTS IN BABY STEPS!

HIGH PRICES CAUSES A TUFFER LIFE ALSO.

GOVT. CONTROL I SEE COMEING UP ALSO.

I AM HERE TO HELP OTHERS.SUPPORT GROUPS ARE TO EDUCATE OTHERS. NAMI IS ANOTHER GREAT RESOURCE. COVERS ALL DISORDERS. "Anti Ritalin",
Don't worry about warning other parents. Worry about your sick child. Get her the best medical help that you can. Get some help dealing with your emotions so that you can be strong for your child. Make your child your highest priority. When the time is right you obviously will hire an attorney.

We offer you prayers and thoughts for you and your family.

TCMG38858.041099537

[QUOTE=TCMG]I was surpirsed that the post from the individual known as "Anti Ritalin" was published here. No doubt you will call "Anti Ritalin" a "troll" and kick him out. You will say things to discredit him. You will say he is using scare tactics when in fact it is logical to be quite afraid.

I posted my warnings here about how school officials are uninformed about how kids with correctable vision disabilities have the almost identical symptoms as those with so called ADHD. Please see http://www.pavevision.org/

People here thought I was an anti medication predator.

I was a Mom who lived through a NIGHTMARE who wanted to prevent other moms from having the similar NIGHTMARE.

I hope that "Anti Ritalin" goes to EVERY SINGLE ADD and ADHD FORUM website and warns ALL the parents! I hope his posts do not get erased, but I think they will.

[/QUOTE]

TCMG, it's not about what she posted. It's the fact that she put the same "cut and paste" on just about every board on this forum. Then after that, she got reported for spamming, not for what she posted. And the sincerity of it is not there. she went from trying to inform, to scare tactics, then to name calling and being rude in less than 20 minutes. Sorry that you don't see that is wrong. I am all for Freedom of speach. I'm not for people attacking others and trying to scare people. Think about that. It's not what she said in the first post, it's that she posted the SAME thing over and over again the attacked people for reporting spam. Not every one has to agree to get along. I'm just trying to be a voice of reason. To be open, the thread is on the debate board, you should put this there. Do you really think it's right to put the same thing on so many boards on ONE forum? Then go from nice to mean is such a short time?

You have to make the best choices for your OWN children and not listen to other people. If you listen to everything in life you would never go out. I believe that people give they children ritalin etc after a great deal of thought etc and it is not something people go into lightly but they read PROPER medical websites and seek advice from dr's not from someone in a chat room style forum!!!!!!! Sorry to of upset anyone but that is my personal opinion as is the anti ritalin your personal opinion and if you feel free to state your opinion so will I.

You miss the key points of trolldom in the postings.

Firstly - she (and that was what SHE was btw) didn't do any research. She came in with no real idea of what to do and when approached with gentle hints and indications of what to do to stay civil she flipped. Well I didnt' do that but everyone else did.

Second she brought out the ire in me and others by saying that ALL Ritalin use is harmful to ALL people ALL the time. She used some crazy theory that benzene is released causing cancer. As I and a few others pointed out to her it would be as likely to release benzene from Ritalin as to release chlorine gas from table salt. In other words no chance at all. Again - insults and denial were her way.

She came out in every thread in large font and capital letters (essentially screaming in internet etiquette) shouting that we were murderers and that she was certain that Ritalin caused her daughters cancer.

I don't shove people out of here for opposing viewpoints. But that kind of behavior is totally inappropriate. I'm sure if you step back and see this as a whole cloth you'll see that too.

You erased my sincere heartfelt account of what happened to my son. Why? I am not a troll.

If my child was possibly dying, I might use capital letters, too.

Allow the entries to stay. Consider it anger management therapy for a parent who is bitter about a terrible nightmare that could have been avoided if parents had informed consent about the true risks of the medication.

TCMG38857.7805555556

Was not a personal attack on you - merely trying to keep verbose as I just cannot stand the threads where everything gets quoted word for word for page upon page. Very difficult to keep scrolling for what seems miles of text.

People are being informed of the risks of Ritalin. Every year now it seems to be more and more with black boxes, etc. The percentage of deaths due to preexisting heart conditions hasn't changed but public awareness has - leading to press and people thinking it's an epidemic. It isn't.

There is no link to cancer in humans and ritalin. By now after over 50 years of public use there would be a clear path to follow and no way to conceal that kind of side effect. Cancer is pretty hard to cover up. This lady was not just weeping over her child (which I still have doubts over the validity as she kept mentioning she gave the child 10 years of Ritalin then suddenly came to the conclusion that it must be the benzene), but rather foaming at the mouth at others getting prescriptions for their children. She went through the whole trollish grocery list - and her benzene obsession and pretty much alienated even those that wanted badly to be on her side.

As others have seen and pointed out this one was from an email campaign to quell pro-med support for ADHD. They have been given a mandate to go out to the forums for us and attack in any way with any means at their disposal. We've seen it before. Seems also anti-ritalin is back with a more soft-spoken but almost word-for-word personna.

Everyone is entitled to their feelings and their opinions. If she'd have come in and said "LOOK - HERE IS MY STORY" and left it at that we'd all have felt sympathy for someone in pain. But she immediately attacked - and that just got me angry. Not to mention my very high-tuned BS antenna was going into the red. I still think she's a liar from the ritalindeath camp.

So sorry for trimming your quote. But I'm not sorry for the one single word that angered this woman so much. I was quite civil (more than I was for the other trolls) and gave her rope and sure enough she was hanging from it soon enough.

If your child was dying, what would you do? I am praying for the so called troll and his or her child. I am praying that this child does not die.

I am not a troll and you thought I was.

TCMG38857.8984143519

Glen!!!

ogram38857.8460416667

I've visited ritalindeath. Lies and deceipt make me physically ill. It's a den of dishonesty and misinformation - hyperbole and diversion.

If it quacks like a troll and walks like a troll.....

IMac38942.9188310185

there is no reason. it's just to be a puppet. i sure hope she never needs some thing for a head ache. head aches are stress related in some cases, so aspirin can thin you blood and cause a bleeding problem.

Smells like a troll to me. But that's how it works. I have a poem too:

Roses are red, violets are blue,

you look like a troll and smell like one too.

how's that for talent.

OK. I should not have posted the poem. I took it from the website. It was an expression of grief for a child who died from taking Ritalin at his usal dose. It was maudlin.

You know exactly why I post here. I spent considerable time telling you but you erased it all.

I mean no malice. Peace be with you. Pray for the parent named "anti ritalin" . He or she needs prayers. What could fuel such anger? Pray. Meditate. Think. Read. Peace.

[QUOTE=TCMG]OK. I should not have posted the poem. I took it from the website. It was an expression of grief for a child who died from taking Ritalin at his usal dose. It was maudlin.

You know exactly why I post here. I spent considerable time telling you but you erased it all.

I mean no malice. Peace be with you. Pray for the parent named "anti ritalin" . He or she needs prayers. What could fuel such anger? Pray. Meditate. Think. Read. Peace.

[/QUOTE]

then edit it out. i didn't delete any thing, only the admin can do that. frankly, you have handled this better than most of the anti folks do. But remember this is a SUPPORT GROUP. the last thing we need here is people assuming that we don't know what we are giving our children. You need to respect us as equals, don't talk down to us, it's insulting and wrong. Peace be with you, also. (you must be Catholic)

IMac38942.9173032407You cannot find my posts because they were deleted.

http://www.pavevision.org/
http://www.blockcenter.com/

I started taking Strattera today. I've heard and read good and bad with the drug but logically that's going to be the case with any drug that affects the brain. Especially considering the makers of Strattera and stimulants flat out say they don't know exactly how they improve ADD behaviors, just that they do.

I'm looking to improve my relationship with my family and my performance in everything I do in life. I've tried behavior modification, making lists, using a little voice to tell myself how to act in certain situations, and it has been a never ending circle of some days are good and some days are impossible (to concentrate and get things done). I'm very involved in my childrens' lives already so I'm not looking for a major change, just a way to cope with those times when the demands of five people becomes overwhelming.

That's the perfect attitude. You aren't just relying on the medication to "fix you." You're taking it into your own hands and using Strattera as an aid. Wonderful. I wish you the best of luck with Strattera

I heard that it could cause your liver to fail and you could die from it. I don't know if this is true or not, but I did read about it.

Glen, I would agree with you. Whenever people make global statements like "all these drugs are" whatever then you can pretty much write off whatever the next statement is going to be.

There are very rare absolutes in life, and a person's decision to use medications to help themselves is really their own decision made with their doctor. It's like Tom Cruise's idiotic statement about antidepressants which was so publicized. These drugs do help a tremendous amount of people in this world. How can you knock that? If a person has weighed the risks and benefits of using a medication, their decision to use it or not is nobody else's business.

For what it's worth regarding Strattera, most physicians I've talked with about this drug are underwhelmed with its effectiveness. Personally, I think it's high prescription rate is as a result of slick marketing techniques for a crappy drug. But this certainly does not mean that it may not be helpful for a minority of patients.

When I took it myself, all it did was put me to sleep and I fell asleep in some pretty inappropriate places, like during my daughter's Tae Kwan Do lesson where I was supposed to be watching her.

When the FDA issues warnings, we should pay attention.

Dear Mrstoobins

You said you are looking to improve your relationship with your family that you need a way to cope with your environment.

You may want to examine what makes the demands of the five people so overwhelming. Is your lifestyle too hectic? Do you feel valued? Do you get enough sleep? On days that it is impossible to concentrate, what exactly is going on? Do your children cause you worry? Do you get regular exercise? Are you a little isolated?

I am sure that people here will object to my post as beeing off the topic, but it really isn't. The topic was about the FDA risks inherent in using the drug. I believe that unless you fix your environment, you are at risk of not seeing the results you want to obtain.

Try to fix the problems. Reach out and talk to a therapist and sort out the issues. Make changes in your lifestyle. Get better sleep- examine what might interfere with sleep disturbances. Address any worrisome issues. (Sounds vague-I apologize) Connect with another human being and try to talk more. Have confidence that you can do this. Believe in yourself. All will be well if you take this positive approach. You might discover that maybe you don't need the medicine, which obviously has risks.

Good luck. You are in our thoughts.
Keep trying to fix the problems. Never give up! Do not admit defeat. You can be successful at facing these issues and fixing them.

Your attitude about proactively monitoring your mental health is excellent, but it might be hard doing this solo. Perhaps you could create a diary and share it with someone. Please stay connected with someone. a therapist, a freind, a spouse and share all of your thoughts. At the slightest sign of trouble, please reach out!

As a double suicide survivor, I must mention that the best drugs available did not help my mother cope and they did not help my cousin cope. May they rest in peace. In fact, I pray that they watch over you and protect you from harm.

Peace be with you.

TCMG, I tried to indicate that I've exhausted, I believe, just about anything I could do beyond trying medication without listing everything and making an internet post unbearable to read. I've observed people in my inner circle that have greatly benefited from ADHD medication and/or anti-depressant medication. At some point you have to make the decision whether you believe there is a physical problem that can be fixed by medication such as the flow of brain chemistry.

On the subject of an FDA warning, as an individual you have to weigh the consequences of your actions. If you go in knowing there is a possibility of negative side effects from a drug then you need to be proactive about monitoring yourself for this. From my research, I don't see the warning for Strattera being any worse than the warnings for any other ADHD or depression medication. That's my evaluation, but I'm sure other individuals may think differently.

Wow, my eleven year old son is on it and it has been the best treatment we have ever tried. He went with out it for five days once because our insurance company took their time sending authorization to the pharmacy. And during those five days he was really upset and started thinking about the fact that one day he will die and that really bothered him. I dont see him thinking about suicide, he is scared to death of death. We are christians so I kept telling him there is no reason to be scared....And I would have paid for the meds but the pharmacy advised against it said I may not be able to get reimbursed. since then I have made sure we call a week ahead to assure the pharmacy has prior authorization (auth is needed only every 3 months thankfully!)

These drugs are all dangerous and have bad side effcts. Schools should teach differently inplace of forceing people to try and fit a style that isn't that person way of learning. Se kids are also in improper grades most likely. If you haven't gotten down the basics you will struggle for ever. Todays education stinks it is just about learning to test that's it. oldtimer38902.218587963

Oldtimer, oldtimer oldtimer... sigh

SOCIETY - that thing that keeps people from living in caves and beating each other to death for the next meal you know? - THAT makes boundaries and constraints on people that require us to meet certain standards and do certain things to keep the whole thing going!

If school was designed to be touchy-feely and be everything for every special student there would be only a few classes chosen - creative writing, art, and music. For a society to stay solid and have educated people to be the next generation of doctors, scientists and leaders there must be required classes in very rigid methodology to make sure that the children get enough education to be able to take the reigns of society when it is their turn.

And that dig on medication that ALL medicine (oh sorry DRUGS) are dangerous and bad and have bad side effects is very troll-like and I honesty take offense to the entire tone of your posting. As has been said here and elsewhere ad nauseum pretty much anything you breathe, ingest or rub on you potentially is dangerous to a part of the population if not all. To just globally pooh-pooh the meds is ridiculous to a high degree.

The education system will never be perfected as it is ever-changing. It's a far cry better than 100 years ago when a child with a learning disability would be locked up in a sanitarium, beaten to submission or worse sent off to work in a dickensian factory. You constantly pick on teachers who are underpaid, work with 40 or more children with absolutely no allowable means of controlling them, and an underfunded supply budget. They sometimes cannot afford simple primer books or even chalk for the blackboard. Many spend their own money on supplies out of love for the children. Yes that is such a bad thing oldtimer isn't it?

I have become terribly sick and tired of sitting by and allowing you to just prance around and knock anything that isn't herbalist-approved and be kept gagged silent from knowing you yourself have learning difficulties and therefore have limited understanding about everything you post. Either learn about what you speak of or shut up.

I just think the system should have to change. It is not our problem of the lack of funds. I just believe teaching to all style is a must. Your shut up comment is down right rude. You can't force anyone to want to be in school either. If you haven't mastered the basics you will struugle in the rest of the years. I feel Ld classes teach better that's all.

I've been using Strattera now for a month. As far as ADHD symptoms, I feel when I start a project that I finish it. It's not magically making me do more, but when I decide to do something I don't get distracted by other tasks to a point where I don't come back and finish up.

As far as depression symptoms, I feel like I'm much more patient with my children. Once again, the drug isn't magically taking away unwanted feelings like anger, but it seems to be helping to control these types of emotions much better when I'm feeling overwhelmed. Before trying medication I've always attempted to control my emotions by telling myself not to start yelling just because that type of feeling was coming on. Sometimes it worked, but on a bad day this techinique had no hope of working. Now I feel like when I tell myself to hold back, that something kicks in to help me do it. That's the best way I can describe it.

This could all be a placebo effect of me feeling like I'm doing something about what I see as a problem, therefore I'm having success doing it. But a month is a pretty good length of period and so far so good for me on this medication.

My son takes 2 strattera, but it only works for like 2 hours and then he's on ritalin Traditional learning methods don't work for all is the point I am trying to tell ya Glen!College will not work for all either! Your problem is that you are doing the same thing Politicians are trying to make everyone be something they are not. Traditinal methods don't work for me to they are just to hard for me/son. We don't understand that type of method. RN/DNWhy should the person have to change and not the educational system. I disagree with anyone who believes a person should have to change to fit the educational system. I believe the educational system needs to fit the needs of all kids. I will never force my kids to fit the onesize fits all theology. Sorry you have a problem with how I view education. I agree with Old timer. Change the schools.

Harvard researchers theorize about mutiple intelligences and how some struggling students respond very well to specific learning environments. Please visit http://www.thomasarmstrong.com/multiple_intelligences .htm to read about Dr. Gardner's and Dr. Armstrong's practical approaches.

Moreover, probably more than 75 % of struggling students are not referred to a specialist optometrist for a comprehensive vision exam. The teachers seem to have no idea that a person could pass an accuity exam (eye chart) but fail a comprehensive vision exam. Most teachers don't know about how vision therapy this can help a struggling student who has problems with tracking. If you are not informed about this, read more at http://www.covd.org/od/learning.html

Don't force the parents to drug the struggling students. Provide other options, Look for solutions that are noninvasive, longer lasting and based on empiracal research.

Doctors haved pressed the FDA to issue warnings about ADHD medication. These doctors have guts standing up to the big pharmaceutical companies. We should honor them as heros, since they have nothing to gain by speaking out. They are the angels for the children, who have no voices.
I'm sure this has been said before but... Your points about intelligences is fine, but there is more to ADD/ADHD than difficulty in school. You're only arguing one symptom of the problem. Mrstoobins
Iam unsure of how you might believe that I am arguing "one symptom" of so called ADHD. I believe we should attack the problem of inattention and overimpulsivity from many angles, including educational reform, vision education awareness, and pushing for evidenced-based treatments. (We should not tolerate medical guesswork.)

1. The research done by two Harvard PHds that suggests that specific educational environments are appropriate for specific types of learners. We should focus on such research and push for educational reform.

2. Some struggling students might have symptoms that are identical to so called ADHD but that they really might have a vision problem, which is objectively measured. At the PAVE site you might read:"Dr. Don Sealock, a Behavioral Optometrist, believes eye disorders can be mistaken for ADD/ADHD. Sealock cites three eye disorders most often associated with ADD and ADHD. First a wandering eye. For example, when reading the left eye wanders while the right eye follows the sentence. The brain struggles to resolve the differing images from the two eyes. Second, a muscle twitch that affects focus. When reading, the page slips into and out of focus. And finally, an eye movement deficiency where the eye struggles to track things leaving visual gaps. According to the Better Vision Institute, only 14% of children have had a comprehensive vision exam by first grade. Based on research, the National PTA and the National Society for the Prevention of Blindness estimates 10,000,000 students suffer with undiagnosed vision problems in our schools and that good visual skills are necessary for successful learning. "

3. We should find doctors who will help us find and fix underlying medical conditions. Please see http://www.blockcenter.com/

The FDA strong alerts were issued by courageous doctors. They stepped forward and voiced their concerns. What they did was far from politically correct. It is time we paid attention to the doctors and started the hard work at finding less risky, longer lasting ways to address the problems of inattention and overimpulisivity.

Mrstoobins, if you are taking a psychiatric medication such as Straterra (sp?), I do not wish you any ill will. I simply ask that you continue to be careful about some of the risks mentioned (for your own safety and good health) and I ask that you do not assume that all parents should allow their kids to take the same risks as you have taken.

I hope that our world will change so that teachers stop coercing parents to drug their struggling students. I hope that parents will push for evidenced-based solutions in the field of psychiatry. I apologize that I am so long winded. I hope you have a better understanding of my position now. Thanks for your attention.

Is there any evidence of how many visionally impaired students are diagnosed as adhd? Does anybody really know that there is an epidemic of people being overdiagnosed with ADD/ADHD? I'm glad there are people who will question remedies that they think could be harmful. But just because medication for ADHD and the diagnosis process has come into question doesn't necessarily mean that medication is a bad thing. Is ADHD overdiagnosed, maybe. Are drugs as a way of treatment overdiagnosed, maybe. I think most of us have considered alternatives and have not made a choice for ourselves or for our children without much thought and research. Maybe I'm lucky, but I have a third grader with impulsivity and concentration issues but haven't had a teacher suggest drugs yet. I don't think every teacher or even a majority of teachers suggest drugs for children they don't think will benefit from it.

As for teaching methods, most of the "alternative" methods we're talking about come down to a major point: more one on one time or smaller group teaching. If anybody's answer to this is to 1. pay teachers less so we can hire more 2. raise taxes to hire more teachers or 3. continue to gripe about it without a real solution of how to get there (applying alternative methods) then that person's throwing useless words out there. Teachers should not get paid less, if taxes are raised it doesn't mean teachers will necessarily be hired and trained, and unless we hire more teachers and train them how are we supposed to implement these teaching solutions that will benefit us all so greatly? Different teaching methods are something that can benefit all kinds of people, this is not just an ADHD/ADD thing. So I don't really get the point. People (Harvard PHDs and those that glorify what they say) want to say "apply better teaching methods" but they don't have any solution for how we get there.

The visual isssue is very common. This common eye issue is 1 and every 4 kids. It is being found in varying disability labels. Most of our eye dr. practice is kids and some adults even. A eye chart only looks at can you see far or near. The other testing looks at perseptial skills also. You need to ask for a therapeutic exam by a therapeutic eye dr.

Schools needs to worry more about education more than the others stuff. Staff also need to be given other ways to teach something. They also need training to educate Se people. The problem is most schools teaching things visually and some people don't learn that way. Son/I don't learn this way. We need auditory/hands on learning.

Dear Mrstoobins:

Thank you for the opportunity of courteous debate. I appreciate this opportunity. Please allow me to respond to your post:

You said :"I don't think every teacher or even a majority of teachers suggest drugs for children they don't think will benefit from it."

I think teachers are uninformed about the symptoms of vision issues and almost NEVER refer struggling students to specialist optometrists and almost ALWAY refer them to the school psychologist. Regretably, I have no statistics to back this assertion. However, I read that up to fifteen percent of the population of students in some public schools are taking ADHD medication ; 50% in foster care, 60-70% in juvenile detention. I believe I read that ADHD drugs are a 3 billion dollar a year business. Are these figures accurate? If so, it means that for most of the time, teachers refer struggling students to psychiatrists to fix the problems of inattention and overimpulsivity.

You said :"Maybe I'm lucky, but I have a third grader with impulsivity and concentration issues but haven't had a teacher suggest drugs yet. "

You have no idea how lucky you are that teachers did not coerce you to get your child diagnosed with a psychiatric label , ADD or ADHD, and then have the doctors coerce you to give your child ADHD medicines, presumeably for life. Many parents have been coerced. The public list of parents who have been coerced is viewable at http://www.ablechild.org/data/thelist.asp. There are currently only 1094 entries, some of which are anonymous. It is a probably a tiny fraction of the true number of coerced parents and it obviously excludes many parents who fear grade retaliation.

My hope is that parents can understand the openness of the debate, will have the support to resist the coercion, and will seek evidenced-based solutions. This debate is wide open. All doctors do not agree on the solutions or even the way to test for inattention and overimpulsivity.

My hope is that people like Dr. David Eddy, a famous medical reformer, will use his groundbreaking computer simulation and show that the conventional approach to treating inattention and overimpulsivity is wrong. I have read that Dr. Eddy likes to cite a figure that only 15% of what doctors do is backed by hard evidence.

My sincere hope is that we can spend the considerable money allocated for educational educational reform much more wisely. I believe that we need to change the way we are teaching, in order to reach people with different learning styles. Why are so many students struggling with inattention? We need to inspire, we don't need to medicate!

I am very optimistic that if we work together, we can make a difference. We all MUST understand that the strong FDA alerts regarding ADHD medications were based on evidence. We must understand that the FDA is not a propaganda machine, trying to topple the ADHD industry. We need to applaud these unpopular doctors who issued alerts for the ADHD medications, and be aware that the doctors had nothing to gain by speaking out.

Again, thanks for the chance to voice my thoughts. I am very glad to have this forum.
I here this disorder is over diagnosed. The transmitter test will tell you what is to high and to low. It can be helped with Neuroscience products who does the testing. My issue is the side effect those attention drugs can cause. The Fda does a lot of approval and then later ends up with warning labels with lots of drugs. Side effects are just not worth it to me. This is an interesting debate.

My son was diagnosed with ADHD by a leading expert here in the UK. He
immediately said "put him on Ritalin." I replied that I understood that one
of the side effects is sleeplessness. When I explained that my poor child
has a hard time falling asleep anyway, the esteemed doctor said we could
give him another drug to help him sleep. I then said that my son is
anxious to which the doctor recommended another drug. I put a halt to
further discussion at 3 drugs for my 6 year old.

I told the doctor that a good friend had suggested Strattera due to its
positive result with her son. The doctor said that he had not found
positive results with it. Most of his patients who had tried it felt that
either it did not work or needed to be used in conjunction with Ritalin.
My brain swam with the thought of medicating my son with 4 drugs. I
thought I had to try something else. I am glad I did.

My son has had difficulties with his eyes - extremely dialated pupils,
excessive watering, teaming issues etc. He has had standard sight tests at
school and a regular eye doctor which he passed. I took him to a special
Behavioural (English spelling) Optomotrist. He has had vision therapy
from January 2006. The improvement in his work at school is vast. His
reading has skyrocketed. Prior to VT, he was doing everything in his
power to avoid reading. In no way has this "cured" his impulsiveness but
it has improved reading and close work as well as co-ordination and
therefore, sports.   All of this has boosted his self esteem. I don't think I
would have gone down this path had we decided on the drugs. As we
progress with the VT, I am going to start looking into auditory issues. He
has "bionic" hearing - he cannot filter out noises.

I think I have a mild form of whatever it is my son has (sensory issues,
adhd etc). I have used homeopathy. Perhaps it is a placebo effect, but I
am calmer. When my kids drove me nuts, I used to yell back. I no longer
feel my blood boil and the physical tightness in my chest that would
cause me to explode.     I can literally detach my feelings from the
situation (not always but the majority of the time) and deal with the crisis
in a calm, reasonable way. It has made a huge difference with my son.

And finally, the point about education. There is a great book called THE
GIFT OF ADHD in which the author says these kids and adults do not have
an attention deficit. They are attention different. My child can spend
hours playing with trains or his game boy or television. We just returned
from vacation where we went to a free outdoor symphony. In order to
keep my son quiet, we let him use his game boy. After the concert, a lady
came up to us to say how impressed she was with his "remarkable"
attention and how well behaved he was. She wished that all of HER
STUDENTS were like him!!!!

My son goes to a very nice independent (private) school. Most of the
teachers are supportive. His first half of Year 2 (rising 7s - although he is
turning 7 on 14 Aug) saw his self esteem hit rock bottom as his newly
qualified teacher and I struggled to deal with this recently diagnosed child
with ADHD. After Christmas, the headmaster called my husband and me
for a meeting to say he was moving my son out of Miss B's class and into
a more experienced teacher's class. Also, the class dynamics were
completely different with the new class being more mature and academic.

Perhaps it was the class and teacher change in conjunction with the VT
that helped him turn it around. His end of year report repeatedly stated
the improvement in written output, a better attitude and lots of well
dones. On standardized tests, he scored above a 7 year old in reading
and math (he is still six) and on par with a 9 year old for science (an oral
test). I have repeatedly told the teachers that he falls apart when asked to
write but this has improved with VT. The science result proves that
changing how children are traditionally tested (pen and paper) can
produce remarkable results. His main class teacher did say we still need
to work on his erratic and sometimes disruptive behaviour which we
address every day. Having felt incredibly bouyed by the report, I read the
closing comment from the acting head who does not know my son.
"Steady progress has been made but will be hampered by less than
satisfactory behaviour." I cannot agree that moving from a score at the
bottom of the entire Year 2 to a result equivalent to a 9 year old (in a
period of 4 months) is steady progress.

Until educators realise that each child learns in a different way as well as
having the facility to teach in a different way, a significant number of
children will continue to struggle. But do I need to drug my child in order
to fit in with the norm so he can stay with his friends? Some days I feel
like saying "give him the drugs NOW" but then I think about all the what
ifs regarding side effects.

I think an adult making an informed decision to use medication is
absolutely right if that person can feel a positive effect. I struggle with
the "am I doing the right thing for my son" debate every single day.

Having a forum like this is a fantastic way to let it all pour out - sorry for
the lengthy tome and thank you for reading it (if you got this far!).Sorry, I didn't realize how long my post was. Bonus points for anyone who
actually reads it all!I read your entire post and thank you for taking the time to send it.

Knee jerk reaction to your post- I doubt very much that your child has ADHD.

Follow your gut. You were right on track with looking into the vision issues. Please tell your story to others so that parents know that all struggling students should have a comprehensive vision exam. The ADHD thing is very subjective BUT vision problems are tested in a completely objective way. Great idea to check into auditory, allergy, and sleep issues. Be a sleuth and solve the underlying problems. Environment is VERY IMPORTANT ---Think about how your child learns best. (Visual? Auditory? Tactile, etc...) Make changes in the environment to promote an optimum learning experience for your child.

You are worried about the ADHD meds for good reason...Go to google.com or any search engine and type in the name of the drug that the doctors are prescribing for your child and then type in the word "injury" and press enter. You will see that there are lawyers specializing in Straterra Injury or Adderal Injury or Ritalin injury or whatever. Then go back tp google.com or any search engine and type in the name of the drug followed by the word " danger" or "death". See what you find.

Just as a minor FYI-I read about one legal case involving parents in the state of Delaware in the US who sued their private school and won a settlement out of court. From what I understand, this family said that the private special ed school declared that both of their children had ADHD. The diagnosis was then seconded by the school psychiatirst who treated both kids with drugs for years. Later the family discovered that the children were diagnosed and successfully treated by specialist optometrists for vision problems. The original psychiatrist declared the children ADHD free, after they completed vision therapy. The family sued and won a settlement. (Sorry this is off the topic)

There is a commmunity of doctors and parents who believe in a drug free and label free education at http://www.ablechild.org/. I believe that some of the founders of Ablechild.org have testified before the FDA .

You and your family are in my thoughts. I am sure that your child will continue to improve, given your excellent work. Have a great new school year!

I will continue to take Strattera because it actually works for me and the
chances of damage being done are so slim.Thank you so much for your post. I often feel that I am the only person who
is trying to put this incredibly difficult jigsaw puzzle together. I will google
the links you suggested.

We live in England so I don't know legal position over here. But, it is very
interesting about the case in Delaware.

Thank you. Did it say anything about HOMICIDAL thoughts?

Just kidding.

I've taken Strattera for maybe a couple or three years and a few months ago the doc also put me on a low dose of Metadate (or something like that). It's worked GREAT for me.

Papa
Papa Spot38942.5617708333

In response to TCMG's last post. ADHD is not just about the short term and how a child is performing in school. Everything you say about the teacher and the learning environment making a difference in that area is true. But there are also the long term effects to think about, like how impulsive behaviors like stealing can affect relationships with others. Not to mention the raised likelihood of drug abuse and self esteem issues that arise when family, friends, and peers react to impulsive behaviors. I don't know how you can say you doubt a child has ADHD based on a post on a message board. I think a lot of the behaviors described by nandgmum would indicate it's something to consider. I'm very happy that nandgmum's child is performing well in school without the use of drugs, but school performance is only one part of the story. A loving environment and lots of social interaction are certainly ways to help deal with the problem without drugs. Sounds like you're doing a great job with your child nandgmum.

On the subject of Strattera, I like many others have found that after two months the effects of the drug aren't very positive. So I've decided to quit taking it and will now explore other avenues for my own "issues". I think like many adults, my ADHD/ADD has turned more into clinical depression and therefore requires something more like a Prozac or Zoloft. I think I'll talk to a Psychiatrist this time rather than my general practitioner alone.