|
||
Question about the 3 drugs my son is on!Hi, I'm new here and my name is Susan. My 13 year old is on 3 drugs currently and has been taking all 3 for about 3 years now. My kids were with their father cause of me having medical problems and not being able to care for them. But now they are home and I have researched the drugs that my 13 year old is on and they scare me very much. David is said to have ADD along with seperation aniexty disorder. They are giving him Wellbutrin for the ADD. I am very confused by this none the less cause it is for depression. My son has NEVER been classified with depression and I know that for a fact that he is NOT a depressed boy. The 2nd drug that he is on is Trazadone before bedtime to help him fall asleep (since the Wellbutrin makes him anxious and causes restlesness). But again Trazadone is an antidepressent not a drug for insomnia! And 3rd the one that scares me the most is ZYPREXA!!! They give him this as well before bed. WHY??? This is for manic depressants and psychotic disorders. I have also read that this was initially approved for the SHORT TERM treatment of acute manic episodes. Not to last but for NO more than 6 weeks. David has been on this for 3 years! I have been trying to contact his doctor to find out WHY he has my son on these dangerous drugs but he hasn't called me back at all. Can someone please give me ANY insight to why a doctor would give these drugs to my son that has only been ruled with ADD? Any info would be helpful or any stories that you have heard I would love to hear!!! It sounds like not only are the meds maybe not the best for his disorders, but that they are meds which would contradict each other. I would not waste my time with discussing anything with the dr who prescribed them. He may have valid reasons, but it would take another dr to understand and determine that. Find another pediatrician and make an appointment with him or her. Tell them why you want one. You can go into his office a few days before your son's appointment to fill out the forms necessary to get his medical records from the original dr. They will send them in and he has to pass them on to the new dr. The new dr will then be able to not only talk to you about your concerns, but he will have access to whatever records the other one used to decide what to prescribe. Keep us posted. Welcome! I would definitely find another doctor and talk to him/her about the meds he is on. I did just see on an ADHD meds chart that wellbutrin IS listed as an ADHD drug. While I have never met anyone that has been given this med for ADHD it is listed so I am sure it is a possibility. Good luck and hopefully a second doc could be more helpful!By the way, it does say though that wellbutrin is normall perscribe for patients with co-morbid depression or anxiety. You said that you feel the drug CAUSES the anxiety so that definitely should be looked at! i totally agree with barb, getting into a ped is faster than a psych dr, but i would make an appt with one as well...keep us posted...hope all goes well. you are a great mother for noticing these things... kudos to you and a In my opinion, being aware of the evidence of risks is far less likely to scare or hurt someone than it is to discover far too late that their child's health, future - and sometimes LIFE - has been destroyed by drugs because of the agenda set both by the industry who produce the drugs and by the psychiatrists with pharmaceutical interests who vote in (literally) new 'disorders' on a regular basis in order to promote those drugs. I would rather be informed of the risks involved to children if they play on a busy highway and put up with the worry of ensuring that they don't, than to have been unaware and have to try to come to terms with the consequences.
Somsso2, I hope your doctor has researched for himself and will advise you well in the best interests of your son. In the event that he/she is not aware, being prepared with relevant questions and access to articles may improved the situation. Wishing you and your boy the very best. :-)
You might find Able Child a good source of support if there is a problem Somsso02. It has a lot of very useful links. http://www.ablechild.org/links.htm
There's also this article which includes studies (double-blind and other) done on dietary and nutritional changes and the effect on ADHD behaviour, food allergies and their effect, etc: http://cspinet.org/new/adhd_resch_bk02.pdf and the Feingold Program - downloadable from the site (by chapters) with additional information included here: http://www.feingold.org/blue-pg.html
It seems to me that curus has an agenda.... not a very good one at that. First of all, my ADDness would not allow me to read such punishingly LOOOOOOOONNNNNNNGGGGGG posts. Which kinda clues me into the fact that this is most likely ( ok I said MOST LIKELY not definatley) a person who is not suffering from ADD. But feels the need to scare and hurt those of us who do. got news for you... not all docs Push the meds so easily... I have a Dr. who won't even allow my family to have Codiene for coughs... says Robetussen is just as good.. He is also conservative with my ADD.. Started on lowest dose.. very structured.. and would not treat until recieved a diagnosis from a mental health professional. Checks my blood pressure... tells me to monitor on my own because sometimes it can get a little high. ( high as far as normal for me... my normal is 107/73 .. but here lately it has been 130/80 -- that was before meds.. I think its due to stress.. so we are watching it.) He is not treating the BP, he wants to see some long term measurments first... nOt a person that jumps the gun and dishes out meds. I know there are quacks out there.. but its not every dr. .. from what I have seen, most Dr.s genuenly care about the health of their patients... my 2 cents sherry [QUOTE=curus]To SOMSS02Tapering off ZYPREXA. How many mgs is he on? Tapering off should be taken as slowly as necessary. Everyone's metabolism differs. If a reduction in dose off brings on withdrawal symptoms then go back up to the previous dose, wait for a week or so to stabilize and then try reducing again by a little less of a drop. Pill cutters, razor blades and metal nail file are all useful when tapering, the nail file particularly at the end where the transistion from small amounts to nil may need to go slowly. Carefully consider whether you intend to taper your son off all three meds at once. Perhaps ask your doctor if it would be wisest to taper off only one at a time and which one should be first - and also for him/her to consider which should be last. The last should probably be the one with the most sedative qualities which might help counteract withdrawal akathisia. Below is one site where an average tapering procedure is set out to give you some idea on the timeline you could be looking at. It could be longer, particularly if any of those drops need recalculating. The safest way to taper off medication is to take as long as needed. The following is based on someone taking 5 mgs of zyprexa. Check also with your doctor (and perhaps research people's experience of zyprexa withdrawal) on the 'every other day' line at the end. It might be easier on your son if you can split or file off half of that last 2.5 mgs so that he gets 1.25 mgs EVERY bedtime for the last (approx) 30 days, rather than miss a dose every other night. Good luck. Dear curus, Just curious, where did you go to med school? Where did you conclude your residency? What State Board licensed you? Who is your employer? What is your agenda? Thanks, David Just curious, where did you go to med school? Where did you conclude your residency? What State Board licensed you? Who is your employer? What is your agenda? Thanks, David -------------------------------------- David, Shouldn't you be asking the doctor that put a 13 yr old on those meds about his credentials ? He's the one that created the problem. Curus's solutions will work... a lot better than almost any American doctor's will. David, I'll copy your post and show it to the people who told me that. It could be that they were just trying to explain to me how Cymbalta works on the brain. I'll have to get back to you on that. In the meantime, could you explain why the suicide rate among Entreve (Cymbalta as a "stress induced urinary incontinence" med) users was 14 times higher than the placebo group ? It seems kinda odd that a med to stop you from peeing your pants would make you kill yourself. Maybe Eli Lilly should have tried that trick they used in the Prozac trials in Germany back in 1986. The German government was reluctant to approve Prozac because of all the suicides, so Lilly just "adjusted" the clinical trial reports to read "depression" instead of SUICIDE ATTEMPT. PLEASE CONTINUE TO TRY TO DISCREDIT MY STATEMENTS. I DON'T WANT TO BE HANDING OUT FALSE INFO. THAT WAY, IF YOU CAN'T DISCREDIT IT, IT MUST BE TRUE.... SO, HOW ABOUT THOSE CYMBALTA SUICIDE FIGURES ??? That is just scary!!!Dr.'s in general seem to be quick to want to drug these kids! Our Ped. also suggested a drug for depression for my 8 yr. old. WHAT?!!! This kid is not depressed. He has trouble focusing at school and that is it. He is VERY happy-go-lucky. The one drug (adderal) he use to take caused more bad side effects than it did good. He is off drugs for good now. We are going the natural route and it's going well. Side note, I worked in a sp. ed. class yesterday at a middle school and met this little 6 grade boy. He was on several different drugs for who knows what. From what I observed they were causing him more harm. It was very very sad. curus: My son is on 7.5 mg every night of Zyprexa. I plan on leaving his meds alone until we visit with the ND on the 18th and see what she says on how to do it. I am worried about weening him myself since he has been on these drugs for 3 years now!! I know that these drugs can do alot of harm to his body if I just start doing it without knowing what I'm doing. Hopefully soon he'll be off all of them and on the right path! I know that it will be hard for awhile (afraid of the withdraws) but we plan on making it work and doing whatever it takes to take care of theis and HIM!!
Bailey: It scares me as well that the doctors are SO willing to medicate these YOUNG kids with such serious drugs without really doing any checks (blood, brain etc.). I would like to do something about it BUT I'm not sure where to start. The only place I know to start is with my son and go from there!! [QUOTE=BALANCED]... and just a little side note for all of you.... Eli Lilly's latest "FDA approved" antidepressant is called Cymbalta. It is a mix of a generic form of Wyeth's EFFEXOR and Lilly's ZYPREXA. The suicide rate among the clinical trials was 1 per 600 users. [/QUOTE] Dear Balanced, It appears that your statement quoted here is incorrect. Do you have a valid explanation for its inconsistency? This leads to a distrust of all of your statements, no matter how threatening they may be. Sincerely yours, David
Cymbalta / duloxetine
Effexor / venlafaxine
Zyprexa / olanzapine
Bailey and somsso2, For the "natural" route, check out www.truehope.com . They sell a product called EMPowerPlus that really works for depression. Of course, it's expensive. But, they list the ingredients on the site and I suggest you copy that list and discuss it with any competent people in your local health food store. I'm about halfway through translating that list into foods that contain those ingredients. I believe that it would be worth adjusting your grocery shopping and meals to include those ingredients.
Tim P.S. Every 5 minutes an American dies from an adverse reaction to an "FDA approved" prescription drug. On Wellbutrin / Buproprion withdrawal Withdrawal syndrome from Wellbutrin can occur as in SSRIs despite the fact that it does not work on the serotonergic system. Its thought that the dopaminergic and noradregnergic systems may be the cause. All should be tapered off gradually although its possible that it may be reduced more rapidly than is necessary with SSRIs. As always, taper at a speed that your son can cope with and be aware of the possible emergence of akathisia.
Article on Wellbutrin withdrawal, pdf file (acrobat reader required): http://www.psychiatrist.com/pcc/pccpdf/v01n02/v01n0205.pdf
An article on Akathisia (which is common on and in withdrawal from many psychotropic drugs) and the various treatments proposed. If he does show signs of akathisia then it is essential to address the problem. If that situation arises it may be worth seeking your doctors advice as to which of the treatments outlined would be effective when only taken episodically (such as low doses of diazepam when necessary for instance) and asking if this 'episodical' option would be more advantageous in that it would avoid his taking an additional regular drug which may present withdrawal problems of its own: http://www.smj.org.uk/1001/aka1001.htm To SOMSS02 Tapering off ZYPREXA. How many mgs is he on? Tapering off should be taken as slowly as necessary. Everyone's metabolism differs. If a reduction in dose off brings on withdrawal symptoms then go back up to the previous dose, wait for a week or so to stabilize and then try reducing again by a little less of a drop. Pill cutters, razor blades and metal nail file are all useful when tapering, the nail file particularly at the end where the transistion from small amounts to nil may need to go slowly. Carefully consider whether you intend to taper your son off all three meds at once. Perhaps ask your doctor if it would be wisest to taper off only one at a time and which one should be first - and also for him/her to consider which should be last. The last should probably be the one with the most sedative qualities which might help counteract withdrawal akathisia. Below is one site where an average tapering procedure is set out to give you some idea on the timeline you could be looking at. It could be longer, particularly if any of those drops need recalculating. The safest way to taper off medication is to take as long as needed. The following is based on someone taking 5 mgs of zyprexa. Check also with your doctor (and perhaps research people's experience of zyprexa withdrawal) on the 'every other day' line at the end. It might be easier on your son if you can split or file off half of that last 2.5 mgs so that he gets 1.25 mgs EVERY bedtime for the last (approx) 30 days, rather than miss a dose every other night. Good luck.
Relative Risks (RR) on Suicide Rates Article by an Australian Forensic Psychiatrist. As a google html version its a little more difficult to read - if you have power point then it's better to use the first link.
Google html version The evidence from all these sources is overwhelmingly supports a relative risk of suicide by SSRI users of greater than 2, and sometimes as high as 8 or 10. RR of SUICIDE Prozac v all TCAs RR = 6.6 Prozac v Tofranil RR = 1.9 Prozac v Amitriptyline RR = 4.0 Prozac v Prothiaden RR = 2.1 Prozac v Lofepramine RR = 4.04 SSRI overdoses are not fatal. SSRI suicides tend to be violent: hanging, drowning, shooting, jumping, stabbing or cutting, dying on a railway, burning, electrocution, or deliberate road accidents. Donovan S, Clayton A, Beeharry M, Jones S, Kirk C, Waters K, Gardner D, Faulding J, Madely R. Deliberate self-harm and antidepressant drugs. Investigation of a possible link. Brit J Psychiatry. 2000; 177: 551-556 1 in 500 is well above Rogers and Whittaker’s 1 in 14,000 and demands a duty to warn of a catastrophic side effect. www.socialaudit.org.uk/58096-DH%20to%20WARK.htm "...Reports on these trials list patients who have committed suicide, and list those patients as being of a certain age and as having committed suicide at a certain point during the trial, when the patient in question has a very different age and the event in question happened at a completely different point during the trial...". "...Miscoding of suicidal act as emotional lability..." " ...Lilly have resorted to treatment non-response and a range of other headings to code what happened..." [re coding/mislabelling suicidal acts happening on clinical trials] "...records on Prozac, Seroxat/Paxil and Lustral/Zoloft, you will find cases of homicidality coded as nausea for instance..." "...Discontinuation of patients from studies for primary adverse effects such as nausea when in fact there has been a suicidal act;..." "...But it is also worth adding specifically that this has been a feature of all trials of Zoloft/Lustral, Seroxat/Paxil and Prozac throughout..." Shakespeare, Trazadone was what the doc gave Justin when he stopped his Paxil to "stabilize" his mood. You're right, it certainly doesn't work as a "mood stabilizer". Fortunately for Justin, his family and friends, I was able to convince him BEFORE he stopped his Paxil, to get rid of all his guns. About a month later, Justin told me that if he had been able to get to his guns... there'd have been a couple of dead people. I was told by Doctors I trust that Cymbalta was a lot like Effexor and Zyprexa. As for the suicide rates..... the FDA hearings were on Feb. 2, 2004. At the end of it, I asked a reporter if we won. She said.... Oh yeah.. BIG TIME !! We now have the media's attention to these deadly drugs. On Feb 7, 2004, a nondepressed, non suicidal young female clinical trial patient named Traci Johnson hung herself in the washroom of one of Eli Lilly's research labs. She was participating in a clinical trial involving Duloxetine...aka, Cymbalta and Entreve. The media jumped on that one and Eli Lilly spokespeople had to admit that there had been 7 suicides among the 4,224 clinical trial patients. That is 1 per 603 users. Help me understand the logic behind this.... The FDA refused to approve Duloxetine as a "stress induced urinary incontinence" med because there had been 41 suicides and 13 other deaths among the clinical trial patients. BUT THE FDA HAS APPROVED IT AS AN ANTIDEPRESSANT !!! (Is it because they think they can hide the suicides as being caused by the "depression" ??)
"In May 2003, the maker of the SSRI Paxil, GlaxoSmithKline (“GSK”), announced that it was withdrawing claims contained in its promotional material for Paxil (called Seroxat in Ireland and the UK) that the drug worked by normalizing levels of serotonin. GSK acknowledged that the link between depression and serotonin levels is unproven and that such claims “were not consistent with the scientific literature.” ( http://www.baumhedlundlaw.com/media/ssri/Zoloft/CalifAttyGen /PFIZERCOMPLAINT.pdf Page 8 Footnote) PSYCHIATRISTS ARE LEGALIZED DRUG DEALERS !!!! In the last 5 years I have met only 2 who refused to prescribe drugs as a first line of treatment. One has resigned in disgust from the pressure to push drugs and the other has had her license in her home state lifted as a punishment. If they refuse to push drugs, they are punished. [QUOTE=BALANCED]Dear Susan, GET COPIES OF ALL YOUR CHILD'S MEDICAL RECORDS AND COPIES OF EVERY PRESCRIPTION EVER WRITTEN BY THAT DOCTOR FOR YOUR CHILD. ZYPREXA KILLS !!! The manufacturer Eli Lilly is trying to weasel out of thousands of lawsuits regarding this drug. It's an antipsychotic that causes diabetes. WELLBUTRIN is an antidepressant made by Glaxo SmithKline (GSK). It carries a BLACK BOX warning from the FDA regarding suicide in kids. Would you like to talk to some grieving parents ??..... TRAZADONE is a "mood stabilizer" that many Paxil patients are given when they start freaking out. DO NOT JUST STOP GIVING THESE DRUGS TO YOUR CHILD !!!! HE WITH HAVE TO BE TAPERED OFF SLOWLY !!!! .... and just a little side note for all of you.... Eli Lilly's latest "FDA approved" antidepressant is called Cymbalta. It is a mix of a generic form of Wyeth's EFFEXOR and Lilly's ZYPREXA. The suicide rate among the clinical trials was 1 per 600 users. I think you have a very good case for malpractice and I'd like to see this doctor stopped. Email me at prozackills2002@yahoo.ca [/QUOTE] Balanced, I agree with you on some levels, but on others you are loaded with misinformation. Trazadone is not a mood stabilizer in any sense of the word. In fact many bipolar patients are not given trazadone because it can actually induce mania. It is an old school antidepressant which is used at extremely low doses as a hypnotic/ sleep aid. Paxil users (and patients on other SSRI's) are sometimes given trazadone to help with insomnia comorbid with depression. I can't even begin to speculate where you got your information on Cymbalta. Cymbalta (duloxetine) is in the same family as Wyeth's Effexor, but is not a component or reformulation of the drug. Effexor (venlafaxine) and Cymbalta are both dual acting Selective Seretonin/ Norepinephrine Reuptake Inhibitors and are currently the only 2 drugs available in this class. That is the extent of their similarity. They are no more the same drug than Prozac and Lexapro. The suicide rate, while I don't have exact figures available (I will look them up and get back to you) is no higher than with any other marketed antidepressant. And Cymbalta has no relationship to Zyprexa whatsoever. Lilly has marketed a drug called Symbyax which is a combination of fluoxetine (Prozac) and olanzapine (Zyprexa) which is approved for treating bipolar depression, not unipolar depression, because bipolar patients frequently switch into mania when treated with conventional antidepressant medications. With regards to Zyprexa, I agree with you. Of all the atypical antipsyotics available, Zyprexa is the most effective by a small margin, but also the most dangerous. It has weight gain sometimes exceeding 100 pounds and an increased risk of diabetes which seems to be linked to the weight gain but also to glucose intolerance that the drug induces. There are much safer drugs available at present and unless they have been tried and failed I would not use Zyprexa as a first line option. Your son's doctor will not be cooperative at all. He will really hesitate to hand over all of the medical records. The Zyprexa is the deadliest one, so I suggest you get lower dose pills for your son as soon as you can. Wellbutrin is the mildest antidepressant and most people don't suffer too much when stopping it. But to be on the safe side, I suggest you lower it a bit at a time and leave the Trazadone in place for a while. Drug withdrawals generally last about 6 weeks after the last dose of the last pill. It's when you quit the final pill that trouble comes for about 2 harsh weeks. When you get to that point, he will have to be monitored 24/7..... AND I DO MEAN 24/7 !!! The warnings about antidepressants causing suicidal thoughts aren't as clear as I'd like them to be. It is not always a case of "progressive depression" leading to a suicide attempt. In many cases, the thought of killing yourself comes as a spontaneous "great" idea. OFTEN, THERE IS ABSOLUTELY NO WARNING AT ALL !!! At the FDA hearings in Feb 2004, I met a dad whose son was talking about going snowboarding the next day and wondering which college he should pick.... and 15 minutes later he hanged himself. No warning at all.... I have read all of that myself over this week-end. I plan on tapering him off of them as soon as I talk to the Doc to find out how to do it, without to much damage to David! Like I said, I have an appt. w/ a ND on the 18th, I just hope that I picked a great one like Tater did..LOL I don't know how to know that though. She is the only one anywhere even close to me. She doesn't have a website or a clinic. Her office is out of her home. Should I be worried, or meet with her and go from there and with my gut feelings??Dear Susan, GET COPIES OF ALL YOUR CHILD'S MEDICAL RECORDS AND COPIES OF EVERY PRESCRIPTION EVER WRITTEN BY THAT DOCTOR FOR YOUR CHILD. ZYPREXA KILLS !!! The manufacturer Eli Lilly is trying to weasel out of thousands of lawsuits regarding this drug. It's an antipsychotic that causes diabetes. WELLBUTRIN is an antidepressant made by Glaxo SmithKline (GSK). It carries a BLACK BOX warning from the FDA regarding suicide in kids. Would you like to talk to some grieving parents ??..... TRAZADONE is a "mood stabilizer" that many Paxil patients are given when they start freaking out. DO NOT JUST STOP GIVING THESE DRUGS TO YOUR CHILD !!!! HE WITH HAVE TO BE TAPERED OFF SLOWLY !!!! .... and just a little side note for all of you.... Eli Lilly's latest "FDA approved" antidepressant is called Cymbalta. It is a mix of a generic form of Wyeth's EFFEXOR and Lilly's ZYPREXA. The suicide rate among the clinical trials was 1 per 600 users. I think you have a very good case for malpractice and I'd like to see this doctor stopped. Email me at prozackills2002@yahoo.ca Well thanks everyone for the info about ND's. I just contacted one in my area and I have an appointment for the 18th. I am willing to try anything that will help. No one has ever died from taking B-12..LOL What can it hurt, right? I have heard so many good things about ND from this website that I figure what can it hurt to try it? If it works than GREAT and if it doesn't than we'll go from there! Wellbutrin is a stimulant antidepressant it is more on the lines of Strattera, It is listed as a drug that can work for ADHD and many other symptoms depression, anxiety...etc...doesn't mean he has all of them. I bet if you talked to his father if he tried Stimulants he probably had some really violent rages on them. That is probably why they are using Wellbutrin. If they are working I would just talk to the Dr. and show my concern. Zyprexa is a antipsycotic medication, that is generally used for ODD, and mood disorders. Just to keep his moods a little more even. I don't know anything about Trazadone. All these meds could be leaning towards ADHD/and some type of mood disorder. I would ask the Dr. about Abilfy, Seroquel and try to get him off Zyprexa....There is alot of weight gain with this drug, and I think I have seen on TV, lawsuit commericals for this drug.[QUOTE=Tamaraw1969]My 12 year olds psychiatrist put my son on Adderall & Welbutrin. I also questioned her about him not being depressed, She said depression can look different in an ADHD child. It depends on that child. [/QUOTE]
This is what kills me. My son shows NO signs of depression at all but they say what you said. I think that all these drugs WOULD make him depressed..LOL I was so lucky to find this web forum! This site is great for us who are new to this whole thing. I thank you all for responding with your great info and advise! I love to read the good turnouts, it gives me hope! I thank you all for having the courage and dedication to your families and to wanting to help others in need! |
Enter Your Email below to claim your Free Book |
Copyright© 2006 ADHDNews.com. All rights reserved