Self-Knowledge, Self-Esteem and the Gifte | ADHD Information

Self-Knowledge, Self-Esteem and the Gifted Adult by Stephanie S. Tolan

Originally published in Advanced Development Journal, 1999

Abstract: Self-identification as a gifted adult is complicated by the great diversity among the gifted adult population. What does a gifted adult look like? Unfortunately, for many gifted adults, it looks like somebody else. Using a metaphor of Dots and Spaces, the author explains how we tend to see our own deficits (spaces) but others' gifts (dots). This negatively affects self-esteem and often causes gifted assets to be viewed as mere "weirdness."

Many gifted adults seem to know very little about their minds and how they differ from more "ordinary" minds. The result of this lack of self-knowledge is often low, sometimes cripplingly low self esteem. Most have never been formally identified as gifted, and even those who have may disbelieve the identification or have difficulty incorporating it into their sense of themselves.

Though women are particularly hard-pressed in our culture to recognize and fully utilize unusual intelligence, uncertainty about gifts can affect both males and females, especially those who are not recognized as intellectual achievers. Strangely, even among men and women who are recognized achievers, the "impostor-syndrome" is widely reported. These people go along routinely doing what few others can do, all the while dreading the moment when the world will find them out and discover that they are the fakes they believe themselves to be.

Dots and Spaces

The problem with identifying and discussing the "gifted" is that they are as diverse a population as can be gathered together under any single label. They have, of course, the individual differences of the rest of humanity in temperament, personality, size and shape, life experience, socio-economic class, gender, race, ethnic background. But they also differ from the norms and from one another because of the complexity of the workings of their minds. This diversity may be a primary reason for the inability to recognize and understand the extent of one's intelligence.

Mental Capacity and Individual Differences

In simple terms, the more limited the mental capacity or the lower the IQ, the more similarities will be apparent between individuals. It's easy to understand why this is so. In the normal range of intelligence (into which approximately 90% of the population falls) there are many different mental abilities widely and variously distributed. Consequently, within the broad limits of "normality" there are many and obvious individual variations. Most of the individual differences between people are therefore taken as just that -- individual differences -- unrelated to mental capacity.

As one moves downward from the range of "normal" intelligence, the number of mental abilities individuals exhibit is increasingly restricted -- and so the range of activities and behaviors of those individuals is similarly restricted. The result is that individuals seem to be considerably more alike.

Their similarities are fairly commonly recognized as relating to the level of their intelligence. In some cases speech patterns and even bodily postures and movements are clearly similar. Tom Hanks, portraying the fictional title character in the movie "Forest Gump" was able to convincingly give the impression of mild retardation not just through the content of the character's lines, but by molding his voice and his movements, even his facial expressions to those patterns.

At the other end of the scale, the higher the IQ or greater the intellectual capacity, the more individual differences there will be between individuals. No single person can possibly have all the many capacities available to the extraordinary, beyond-the-norms, human mind. So each individual will exhibit a constellation of these capacities that will be different from the constellation of any other individual.

If we were to think of each of these various unusual mental capacities (e.g. photographic memory, lightning mathematical calculation, the ability to visualize clearly, speed reading, quick spatial pattern recognition, ease in learning languages, metaphorical thought and speech) as "dots" and the lack of them as "spaces," we would see very different patterns in different individuals, even if IQ scores seemed to indicate great similarity.

Because of these varied patterns each highly gifted individual is likely to feel very different from other highly gifted individuals and this sense of difference is likely to create a sense of inequality.

No matter what the individual's pattern of dots and spaces may be, there is a tendency for the person to take his or her own dots for granted. "Lightning calculation is just something I do," a person might say. "A knack I have."

There is no great sense of accomplishment for an attribute that seems to have been with one all one's life, even if that attribute contributes to unusual and high levels of achievement in a culturally recognized field. "Oh, sure, I'm good at math. What could you expect from somebody who calculates that fast." We're likely to value something we've had to work at or study hard to acquire far more highly than something that comes naturally -- something that's just "me."

Meantime, the "spaces," those things that we can't do (or that we do poorly) that someone else can do, easily and well, we're likely to consider really important, particularly if there is a cultural cache to being able to do them. We will feel our lack acutely, and since there are probably a variety of spaces in our particular constellation of abilities just as there are a variety of dots, if we focus heavily on the spaces, we may feel actually incompetent rather than unusually able. We are not comparing ourselves broadly to other people in the normal ranges, but to people outside the norms who have patterns of unusual abilities different from our own.

Because individual differences within the normal range are considered ordinary, typical of the complex species humans are, and in no way related to levels of intelligence, people with the greater differences created by extreme intelligence may dismiss those differences, too, as "ordinary, typical of the complex species humans are." They may never consider that their differences are related to unusual intelligence and considerably outside the norms.

Inevitable Comparisons

A person whose dots create a pattern that allows him or her to become a theoretical physicist is likely to be thought of by most people as an unusually bright person. Our culture values scientific exploration highly and readily concedes that it takes unusual mental capabilities to engage in such activities at a high level.

But the theoretical physicist may or may not agree with that cultural evaluation, depending on what spaces (and how many) he feels he must work around. While he may not feel inferior to a novelist (because a novelist's work is not culturally perceived as either as challenging or as intellectually important as theoretical physics) he may feel distinctly inferior to another physicist who never forgets a detail from a journal article she's read or invariably remembers the specific citation. He may feel inferior to someone who is better organized or more verbal or who does a better job of writing up his findings, or can maneuver more successfully in academic politics.

On the other hand, the novelist is likely to assume that what he or she does is not particularly intellectually challenging, as compared, for instance, to the work of a theoretical physicist. Being able to envision settings and characters and transfer that complex and many-dimensional visual imagery into the linear realm of language, to develop an interesting plot or create a character that is both believable and emotionally commanding, to keep a story line and a philosophical argument balanced and moving, all may seem ordinary stuff to one for whom it is a "dot," one who does it naturally. "I'm not all that bright," the novelist may say or feel, "I just have this talent."

Meantime, if the novelist's computer goes down, the person who can come in and fix it, who understands how it works and what might have gone wrong, who can tinker with it and get it going again, seems to be "the smart one."

All these people, the computer whiz, the novelist and the theoretical physicists could have comparable (even identical) extremely high IQ scores. But each may see someone else as the "really gifted" person.

Unusually intelligent people, probably because they are used to being able to do things well that other people struggle with and have extremely high expectations of themselves, may be especially aware of and self-conscious about their spaces. The combination of focusing on one's spaces while taking one's dots for granted, perceiving that there are huge numbers of dots that others may have that one does not, and valuing other people's dots more highly than one's own, can lead an extremely intelligent person to feel "dumb" or inadequate.

Add the sense of being different that plagues many gifted people (particularly those at the highest ranges) and the result can be a seriously distorted self-image and very low self esteem. As a brilliant and internationally recognized writer friend of mine told me when I dared to suggest that she was gifted, "Oh, no, I'm not gifted, I'm just weird."

Looking at giftedness from the "dots and spaces" perspective might not instantly convince a gifted adult that she is indeed gifted, or solve the self-esteem problems of a lifetime, but it can give her a new way of looking at herself, a clearer view of the abilities she has at her command. How we live our lives has a great deal to do not just with who we are, but who we believe ourselves to be. Learning to celebrate our own constellation of dots can begin a process of self-understanding that can lead to real and positive changes in gifted lives.

Stephanie S. Tolan, M.A., award-winning author of books for children, such as Welcome to the Ark, and co-author of Guiding the Gifted Child, also writes and speaks about the needs of the gifted.

http://www.stephanietolan.com

*ack!

All I saw were the spaces...

After the abstract...

thought it may relate to you!!! [QUOTE=Davidornado] [QUOTE=kibbles002]

.[/QUOTE]

Hey KibblesnSherry,

Nanu nanu! Great for U you!

Hey, can you synopsize it into ADDer bytes, please?

Thanks!!! I like mine with a snort of coffee or, oops, what's melting?
Ā [/QUOTE]

ok here's my attempt at an ADD friendly synopsis...

gifted people seem to think that everybody is smarter than they are.. they cant seem to do what society expects of them... or so they think.

A great number of gifted people do not seem to fit in with society on a social level because the lower the IQ, the more simularities there are between people.

Whereas the gifted tend to have interests at various levels.. even 2 people with the same genious IQ may not have simular interests and knowledge, but 2 people with an IQ of say 85 - 90 would have a higher possiblitly of having something in common.

This is where the dots and spaces come in.. the "dots" are what we can do, the spaces are the things that we cant do.. kindof like a defrag on a harddrive.. the dots are the information, and the spaces are the stuff we cant do or struggle with doing..

So if my mind looked like a hard drive, I would have dots in areas of communication and writing, but I would have spaces in spelling and math. 'cause Lord knows I have NEVER been able to do math! LOL

On top of that a gifted scientest might think that a gifted artist ( who has dots in artistic creativity but spaces in scientific logic)was smarter than he because the scientist "can't paint) never mind the fact that he has the capacity to find the cure for cancer someday. They suffer from low self esteem they see all the spaces in thier own minds and take the dots for granted because that just comes naturally to them.

[QUOTE=sachetm]

Interesting and VERY germane article. From the responses here, I'm wondering if it was the ADDers who were able to finish reading it (kibbles and me) and the ADHDers who had trouble reading the whole thing.

I especially liked her analogy of dots and spaces. Sign of a good writer! The article really is worth getting through, folks!

Probably because I'm in graduate school but I was surprised to find a lack of references in a professional journal. It's a drag to have to back up your ideas and observations with what others have said. That tedium would likely drive an ADHDer nuts!

[/QUOTE]

I don't know, I think I could read the whole thing because I have a gifted son. That would make the article Highly interesting to me. I am a little on the wierd side in that i cant read mentally challenging articles, but if I am very interested in the content.. I can do so quite easily -- despite the challenge.

I've also learned to pace around the room between paragraphs -- that's how I got through assignments for College

Sherry

Hey Kibbles, thanks for changing the colors with each paragraph on the synopsis of the article. It made it much easier for us ADHDers to read!!

I managed to get through most of the article. It's funny that someone mentioned that ADDers would read the whole thing and that ADHDers would not. Being new to the board and not really having other ADHD people to compare stories to it was quite an enlightning comment.

... --- ...

I still feel some of my dots were erased and the hard drive is corrupted.

You know - this whole thing makes me feel crappy! I have never done anything more interesting than rearrange my furniture! I don't have a creative bone in my body - I like things to be ordered and normal and don't have any urge to excel or exceed expectations.

Maybe I don't have ADHD?? LOL

[QUOTE=Fallen]sachetm, perhaps you didnt understand my response then.

Some of us have spent most of our lives missing both the dots and the spaces, or see only backwards spaces and blots.

For example, I can't even begin to explain what I'm trying to say because it makes me incredibly uncomfortable to do so.
[/QUOTE]

I think you're right. I don't think I did. (Lot of thinking going on there!) Want to try again or just too uncomfortable?

[QUOTE=HeidiMarie] Edit - this is my theory on this, and it sounds wacko - but we all know everything all ready -- like an animal knows when theres trouble or bad weather is coming, etc. Our 'intelligence' , which seperates us from the animals, gets in the way and blocks our intuition. That's why our first instinct is right - it is right, based on all the knowledge that we have. Our 'intelligence' comes in and causes us to second guess. I believe that when we *don't* think, we already know. For instance, I'm hyperfocusing on the computer -- phone rings, and I say aloud "We don't want any" or "What does my mom want now?" I always seem to know who is calling when I'm not paying attention :) Given the opportunity to mull it over while going to the phone, I am usually wrong. I think ADHD people may be better at sensing intuition because the *intelligence* often gives us headaches and we just don't want to process it! AKA when we can't concentrate to read something, or whatever. Anyway this is my crazy thoughts on the matter! :)
[/QUOTE]

Oh, HeidiMarie, do I have a book for you! It's "The Whisper in Your Heart" by Stephen G. Scalese (who's ended up a friend of mine) and is about this EXACT thing! I don't think he's ADD or ADHD (although he might be) and figured it out by working with a woman with terminal cancer (he's an LCSW) who's now right as rain 15 years later! They used her intuition (which they called "the second side") to help get her well.

You can get the book at Amazon, including used copies for pretty cheap. Really think you'd love it! There are enough reviews of it at Amazon for you to get an idea.

sachetm38636.2242824074[QUOTE=kibbles002]I don't know, I think I could read the whole thing because I have a gifted son. That would make the article Highly interesting to me. I am a little on the wierd side in that i cant read mentally challenging articles, but if I am very interested in the content.. I can do so quite easily -- despite the challenge.

I've also learned to pace around the room between paragraphs -- that's how I got through assignments for College

Sherry[/QUOTE]

So, you're saying, Sherry, that motivation is REALLY important for you, yes? When it's there you can do that's hard to impossible other times. Did I get that right?

I guess that one of my dots is being able to manufacture motivation--at least when it comes to knowledge and learning (but not stuff like finances or housework--yuk!)

I worked for many years as an instructional designer and could find interest in what others considered the most boring subjects. That ability has come in handy many times and is particularly helpful in school. The more motived (and the better writer) an author is, the easier and deeper I can get into almost anything they have to say--and even stick with it--at least if they don't exceed 20 pages. After that I start to tire and need a break.

I'm much more cerebral with practically no "H" at all. I can sit in one place for hours--totally absorbed. You sound like you may have more "H" with the need to move around more in order to absorb info.

Aren't all our differences interesting!

[QUOTE=Fallen][QUOTE=HeidiMarie]Less I be confused, I'm not saying we're not *intelligent* per se, but that we're more in tune with intuition. Intelligence doesnt necessarily mean being smart, it varies. A person with a low IQ has a low intelligence, high IQ, high intelligence. An ADD/ADHD'er typically has high intelligence, but I think at the same time their "spaced out" and "absentmindness" are just letting intuition take over for a few moments. [/QUOTE]

I think we map our minds less linearly. Rather than ABCDEFG we can see

A D G
| /
C
/ |
B E F

Memory is based on linking items. When you learn basic memory techniques you learn to interrelate random objects and visualize them.

I think ADD seems to allow for this mapping instinctively, often in creative ways. I think the broken part of ADD is the organic chemistry part of the chemicals misfiring so we misplace some of that information - but since we've created this web of stuff we can still work around that deficiency.

So the question is: is it natural for people with ADD to dimensionally or merely a reaction to failing miserably at linear thinking?
[/QUOTE]

The academic answer (from "the literature") is yes--people w/ AD(H)D think much more non-linerally than "normal" people. In fact, often non-linear thinking is equated with creativity as well as intelligence.

I'm guessing that the goal isn't one or the other but having both thinking styles and being able to choose the mode that's most appropriate for a given situation. Graduate school, I've noticed, is helping me do that. Now, if I could just apply that learning to "emotional intelligence" and organization!

Okay, this is kind of heavy, so please bear with me a sec here. The universe operates by a set of laws. The law of gravity means things dropped fall down, etc. Occasionally there are anomalies, but I don't want to get sidetracked on that for now.

Maybe what's really going on is that we INTUIT those laws and are, therefore, able to predict likely scenarios. I think HeidiMarie made a good point about our intuitive sides simply knowing. What they know may well (and I believe, do) how the universe works--what the laws are.

Part of what's interesting to me is the relationship between the intuition and the rational, linear, analytical part (left) of the brain. The right side (our intuition) puts it all together or maybe already has it all together while the left side breaks it apart for further inspection.

The irony is that they fight over who's better rather than work cooperatively and harmoniously together!

What's a non sequitur?

Your signautre makes me wanna go eata sugar biscuit.

This is a timely article for me. It's very hard for me to talk about in general but the focus of my therapy, outside of medication, has been this exact issue. I kinda struggle to explain it, but I totally understand the what and why, and am working actively to become aware of my real competence rather than my self percieved competence, and my gifts being gifts rather than seeing them as things putting me outside of the 'normal' world.

i find things for you and then you kick me in the head...

Let me give it a crack.

Say you are gifted at posting annoying non sequiturs in a forum.

This article says you should never do it again.
C'mon, Brook! Ya mean I gotta read it now??? Can't you synopsize it for me, pleaseeeeeee???ah no

Ok. I'll speed read every 123rd word... [QUOTE=GlenW]

Maybe I don't have ADHD?? LOL

[/QUOTE]

very cute glen but nyet... u have a gift of writing, creative and argumentative

I especially liked her analogy of dots and spaces. Sign of a good writer! The article really is worth getting through, folks!

Brook - Pretty sure I have a triple digit IQ, but I tried to read it, really. It's just too big!

Brook,

I read it ALL ( naner naner) and thank you for posting it. My son is labeled as gifted.. ( how the heck did that happen??? 2 gifted kids with an ADD mom? go figure..)

He has a lot of what the article is describing.. he doesnt see himself as that smart because he cant spell well.. But he can do math better than anything I ever saw.. But, according to him.. "that's just because math is so easy. " yeah right.

I have read somewhere that there is a fine line between ADHD and giftedness. We have a lot of the same issues.. the reasons for those issues are slightly different but it doesnt change the fact that we have many in common.

Sherry

[QUOTE=sachetm]

[/QUOTE]

Interesting and VERY russian article. I think there was a lot of ADHD in the germans. And the white russians. And the english. The french were woosies. Woo-hoo!

Definitely this ADHDer is hADDing trouble still reading the whole thing.
Ā That's why this forum puts previous answers automatically in front of responses, in order not to back up.

[QUOTE=sachetm]

[/QUOTE]

Ā davieboy, you have trouble reading anything that isn't written in rhyme!!!

[QUOTE=Countrygirl]Brook - Pretty sure I have a triple digit IQ, but I tried to read it, really. It's just too big! [/QUOTE]

Me either. I haven't read it at all, yet. Still to big. Maybe I'll wait 'till the movie comes out... [QUOTE=kibbles002]

Brook,

I read it ALL ( naner naner) and thank you for posting it. My son is labeled as gifted.. ( how the heck did that happen??? 2 gifted kids with an ADD mom? go figure..)

Sherry

[/QUOTE]

Hey KibblesnSherry,

Nanu nanu! Great for U you!

Hey, can you synopsize it into ADDer bytes, please?

Thanks!!! I like mine with a snort of coffee or, oops, what's melting?
Ā

i can't tell if the art. was germane or not.

i tried to read it twice, and it was twice as boring the 2nd time.

i think i do understand a point re. how it's hard to think i'm special, as my gifts don't seem to serve me well in the 'real world'. they mostly seem to be albatrosses 'round my neck.

sachetm, perhaps you didnt understand my response then.

Some of us have spent most of our lives missing both the dots and the spaces, or see only backwards spaces and blots.

For example, I can't even begin to explain what I'm trying to say because it makes me incredibly uncomfortable to do so.
[QUOTE=sachetm]

Maybe what's really going on is that we INTUIT those laws and are, therefore, able to predict likely scenarios. Part of what's interesting to me is the relationship between the intuition and the rational, linear, analytical part (left) of the brain. The right side (our intuition) puts it all together or maybe already has it all together while the left side breaks it apart for further inspection.

[/QUOTE]

I'm going to follow a train of thought. This is not a direct criticism of anything you've said -

Intuition remains far too vague a term for me to comfy using it, what is it really? I know that the human brain responds to only a very tiny percentage of the information that our senses collect. In addition, we tend to be pretty bad at multitasking when it comes to sensory input (example: first time skydivers often lose time, forgetting the first 10 - 50 seconds of freefall due to sensory overload - it can also occur during landings or general canopy flight as there is a great deal of sensory input and a lot of piloting thinking going on - generally this is a BAD THING, and it can cause serious injury).

I also know that my brain operates far less linearly, and since I'm not stuck thinking serially I am able to mentally access a great deal of information much faster than most people. Does this lack of linearity allow for access to more subconcious information? (the data we dont take notice of).

Also: ADD mental connections create diversified maps with regards to interrelated data. Learning is based on gathering a chain of skills/info that are related, does this ability to create new less obvious connections let us subconciously map previously learned behavioral cues and map them on a current situation? This would be something that would develop from infancy. Why do some people have the right and wrong 'vibe'? Within 15 seconds of meeting someone I am able to create an entire profile of their life - while the details are likely incorrect the psyche profile of that person is usually incredibly accurate (I joined a new support group recently and of the 7 other members have been 100% correct in my initial evaluation of them, I also told the group I was doing this, and spoke in detail with the moderator on it - as a way to test myself). How? I dont know. Those times I've discounted that vibe I have invariably learned that my initial assessment was correct - unfortunately that usually leads to a great deal of discomfort on my part. I try to pay attention to what cues I am watching, body language, verbal patterns, confidence. While I may notice that immediate data gathering the method I use to parse and evaluate it remain pretty much mysterious.

My conclusions? I really dislike the word intuition :) Reading people is a skill that we learn from birth, it's how we manipulate our parents and caretakers, I've watched my daughter develop it from the moment she was born and into early childhood. Perhaps in our slightly modified brains we are able to retain this infor mation and 'dimensionalize' it - as our talent to judge a situation from many angles allows. I know that my true skill in life (that underlies everything I have ever done) is pattern recognition. If a pattern can be recognized within something (any object, activity or information) it is a trivial task to understand it fully and manipulate it.

I think this may also be part of the mental focus issues that come part and parcel. Approaching a new object or task is initially interesting because it's something new to learn. Once the pattern is recognized the activity/object loses its fascination. There are many people (I hesitate to call them 'normal' because this is only my theory that fits my ADD not yours) who you have to explicitly SHOW them the pattern within and still they will miss the subtler aspects of the information. Example: A good computer engineer understands that all systems are identical, learning it is merely understanding the philosophy of the person who implemented it and extrapolating. This small piece of information has massive impacts, the good tech will ramp up insanely fast - all he's doing is remembering where things are that he's already learnt. The bad tech will take far longer, with far less depth of knowledge because to him he has approached an alien system - he's reset his knowledge base to zero is will relearn massive amounts of redundant information to get to the unique variations that are in this new system.

It seems reasonable to me that there's no difference from any object. For those with Philosophy 101 under their belts: I view it similar to plato's forms. As in Object Oriented Programming, there are archetypes and base classes, from those bases (IS A [object]: A cat is an [animal]) we can extrapolate down through the tree to a blue siamese house cat named ethel who likes to eat curtains. The more we understand about the base class, both what it IS and what it ISNT (those things which can be discarded or significantly altered down through the tree), the easier it is to make accurate estimates.

Hmmm hopefully that doesnt bore anyone or sound too stupid.

great synopsis sherry. ha what about a job doing cliff notes - you'd be fantastic.

and Glen for sure you have ADHD, you just had all the negative... which you now have managed to medicate away. but the positive/creative, i don't know, i always thought it was different side of the same coin but perhaps it is not. if you didn't have the flip 'supposed positive' side then maybe they aren't connected at all. but then again i think you do have it but just in a different way, you have a whack load of tolerance and compassion and calmness (zen) i think that is part of the same thing. or it is to me.

it is just spirituality in a different form. sometimes it expresses itself through music, sometimes through art and sometimes through compassion and kindness. and i think you have the latter.
[QUOTE=GlenW]

Maybe I don't have ADHD?? LOL

[/QUOTE]

Hey Glen,

Intuitive nature is also a part of Creativity... From what I have seen and read from you, that is part of your ADD gift. Just like a truly gifted person sometimes we ADDers see the spaces instead of those wonderful little dots...

maybe you see no reason to excel is because you already have? I see you as a pretty "together" person.. much more than I think I am... see? I see spaces in me where there are dots for you..

Sherry

OMG!...I saw beef.

Must be dinner time.

i am with you on that one, heidimarie. some of it is just i can READ people really well. i know what they want to hear and i pretty much know exactly what they will say... i once annoyed an ex-boyfriend because he was being too slow to articulate what he wanted to say (it was fairly early on in the relationship). so i said 'i know, i know' --- before he had finished.

it pissed him off so much he said 'well, tell me what i was going to say then!' and i did, and i think the fact that i got it SO spot on, deliberately using his type of phrasing - he couldn't speak for about a minute. and then he came back with 'errr, no.... no i wasn't going to say that!' but he was completely gobsmacked!!

and it used to annoy my sisters something chronic because i would finish their sentences for them or in chorus. but i got into the habit of not doing it quite quickly, as i was aware it irritated people. (my 6 yr old neice has exactly the same ability - except she will also answer questions you haven't even asked out loud but are in your head, which is kinda spookY but i notice that she also doesn't do it so much as she has realised it provokes an unhappy reaction in most people).

i reckon that there is always an exact future at any given moment in time. but i also believe that it is subject to change it can go in any number of directions depending on the choice you make at that very moment (meaning you can stay on the same path or diverge quite radically onto a new one - both are possible, there are an infinite variety of possibilities but only one is existing/accurate at any given time).

but i absolutely hate it when i go against my gut instinct.... i always regret it.

that is why i am not going to go on the meds right now. because i FEEL it would be the wrong decision for me. maybe later i will FEEL it to be the right decision ---- but i am SO not going let my intellect take precedence over my intuition cos every time i do that. i feck up big time. and finally, finally, finally i have learned to respect my intuition.

but yeah. sometimes the inevitability of it is horrible. you can see exactly where something is heading but feel like you don't have the power to stop it happening.... and watch it all unfold in semi slow-motion with a sickening sense of deja-vu.

i reckon that is an ADDer trait. definitely. (maybe more a female ADDer trait perhaps?).

at the moment i have a worrying feeling i am headed toward skid row. i am not sure why but i feel it..... ah well, can always change. and maybe it is not in the way i think, perhaps i will just do a lot of work down there rather than be living there myself.

but you know that thing - when people look at you as though they KNOW you and then are slightly confused cos they know they don't, they can't place you. but it's from the future, that sense of recognition that's why they can't place it.

people can always sense future success in others too. (it doesn't necessarily bear out because their future can change, they can fall off that path --- but at the time that they are still on it, people will bend over backwards to help them without really knowing why). it's kinda weird.

or maybe that is just my own madness....! yeah, that's probably it come to think of it.

oops.

oh well, nobody diagnosed me as sane, eh. quite the opposite in fact.

I think you've got PART of the answer! I don't believe in deja vu or ESP or anything portending the future (nobody got 9/11 ahead of time - that was proof enough for me!). However - people and what they do is pretty predictable without the aid of supernatural means.

You are experiencing what I have known for a long time - EMPATHY. The ability not only to have a partial understanding of someone's feelings and wish to comfort them (which is SYMPATHY), but the ability to in a sense put on their skin and see it from their eyes. Profilers do it and so do we.

Empathy means you can put them on - project "how are they going to do X by what they did last time?" - and get it right most of the time!

It creeps them out - and me too. But I know where it comes from. When I read what goes through another I can feel it inside as if it were me. That's not always pleasant. But- -it gives a special insight into the human condition. Sounds like your niece has started about where I did - but is clearer headed than I was then.

Good stuff - keep talking about it!! I'm learning all sorts of things!

I do that all the time. I've made a career from it, in science. Hypotheses that work out. Knowing where the next swing is going to be. I do it with time, and compass directions, too. And mathematical calculations (close, but no cigar...accurate enough for what I need it for).

I always attributed it to having a coping mechanism of connecting the dots in my head, without the lines present. Like taking a bitmap and making a raster out of it.

[QUOTE=HeidiMarie]Less I be confused, I'm not saying we're not *intelligent* per se, but that we're more in tune with intuition. Intelligence doesnt necessarily mean being smart, it varies. A person with a low IQ has a low intelligence, high IQ, high intelligence. An ADD/ADHD'er typically has high intelligence, but I think at the same time their "spaced out" and "absentmindness" are just letting intuition take over for a few moments. [/QUOTE]

I think we map our minds less linearly. Rather than ABCDEFG we can see

A D G
| /
C
/ |
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Memory is based on linking items. When you learn basic memory techniques you learn to interrelate random objects and visualize them.

I think ADD seems to allow for this mapping instinctively, often in creative ways. I think the broken part of ADD is the organic chemistry part of the chemicals misfiring so we misplace some of that information - but since we've created this web of stuff we can still work around that deficiency.

So the question is: is it natural for people with ADD to dimensionally or merely a reaction to failing miserably at linear thinking?
[QUOTE=sachetm][QUOTE=kibbles002]I don't know, I think I could read the whole thing because I have a gifted son. That would make the article Highly interesting to me. I am a little on the wierd side in that i cant read mentally challenging articles, but if I am very interested in the content.. I can do so quite easily -- despite the challenge.

I've also learned to pace around the room between paragraphs -- that's how I got through assignments for College

Sherry[/QUOTE]

So, you're saying, Sherry, that motivation is REALLY important for you, yes? When it's there you can do that's hard to impossible other times. Did I get that right?

I guess that one of my dots is being able to manufacture motivation--at least when it comes to knowledge and learning (but not stuff like finances or housework--yuk!)

Aren't all our differences interesting!

[/QUOTE]

wow, that is interesting! I was diagnosed with ADHD combined type, but really disagreed with the diagnosis, because I really did not see myself as hyper... mainly inattentive... I"m learning that I actually have more H than previously thought.. I was just really good at hiding it!!

And yes, you are right, motivation is an issue for me. If I am motivated, then I am more likely to pay attention, read, or do just about anything.. but really, isnt that anyone?

My deal is that when I become interested in something, I start researching, talking about it, BORING people about it, etc.. and yes, I can sit still for quite sometime, if I am absorbed in whatever I'm doing.

I guess that's hyperfocus.. You should see the Ritlain = cocaine thread... I started posting all sorts of stuff, both pro, con , and balanced because I found it fascinating.. and also timely... I am doing great on medication, BUT, I still have this fear of waking up in the middle of the night with a heart attack or something.... Probably not a likelihood but still something I think about.

Sherry

[QUOTE=Auntie]

But boy can you creatively write. So, awe ha! You do have a talent & creativity after all!

Edited. And now that I have taken the time to read post following yours I see many others are saying the same thing. Guess that should tell ya something about yourself (and about me).

[/QUOTE]

Thanks auntie!! My mother used to call my "gift" - total Blarney. Had to look that up at age 8 - thought it was a dirty word!LOL

My ability to phrase things in new and inventive ways has helped in life. When selling computers I could judge by seeing the client what kind of simile could get the understanding of what I was conveying over. I'm always using similes and metaphors to get my point across. I guess that IS a talent!

You've all made me swell with new happiness and confidence. Thank you ALL so much! Looking back it was kind of a pity party of one - and I guess I needed the reinflation!

Fallen, this one's easy when broken apart: psycho neuro immunology. It's the relationship of those three. They've just discovered that the immune system (via T cells or something) communicates DIRECTLY with the brain (the neuro part). The psycho part (although ripe for a good stand up routine) is how we can (and do) use the brain's natural plasticity to impact that communication. Because I have cancer (breast--and for the 2nd time) and may also have a mild stage of MS (still undergoing testing to determine that), AND believe that many of these kinds of diseases are based on malfunctioning of the immune system (why doesn't it recognize and attack cancer cells, for example), that's why I'm interested in it. No more 8 hour Googling--unless you feel like it, anyway!

If I weren't so broke and knew you better, I'd make a bet with you that I'd reimburse you the cost of the books I recommended (none is expensive or even very long) if you're not really happy you read them! Steve's, especially, will fit right into the areas you've said you're into. Mind Wide Open is just a nice, funny, and highly readable introduction to neuroscience. It should be quite enjoyable to someone intellectually thirsty like yourself.

I join the cheerleading squad to at least write an article, if not a book. An article might be a good start before making the investment to write a book.

You created a DVD? Are you into DVD technology? If so, are you familiar with New Line Cinema's "Infinifilm?" I "invented" the same technology they did a year after without ever hearing about theirs. Even had some meetings in Hollywood about it. Only problem is, although they seem to have mastered the technical part, their design sucks big time. That's where I'm good. If and when I get healthy enough, may get in touch with them. (Here's a link to find out what I'm talking about if this piques any interest: http://www.pcworld.com/news/article/0,aid,54834,00.asp

sachetm38640.2544444444[QUOTE=GlenW][QUOTE=Auntie]

But boy can you creatively write. So, awe ha! You do have a talent & creativity after all!

Edited. And now that I have taken the time to read post following yours I see many others are saying the same thing. Guess that should tell ya something about yourself (and about me).

[/QUOTE]

Thanks auntie!! My mother used to call my "gift" - total Blarney. Had to look that up at age 8 - thought it was a dirty word!LOL

You've all made me swell with new happiness and confidence. Thank you ALL so much! Looking back it was kind of a pity party of one - and I guess I needed the reinflation!

[/QUOTE]

Glen, don't really know you, but given what others have said about and to you, am looking forward to doing so!

It doesn't take much from our parents to squash us. As children, we tend to overinflate what they say and do because we're so dependent on their good will for our survival. Part of getting over the depression, I think, is learning to separate their issues from our own and put it all in perspective.

Sounds like the real blarney lay more in what your Mother said to you!

My undergraduate GPA was a stellar 2.3! If they hadn't needed teachers so badly, I'd never have gotten into grad school at all. That's where it started getting interesting. Undergrad school is a drag, I admit, but the social life sure was fun!

Have a 4.0 now in a doctoral program so just goes to show. What, I'm not sure, but something! I go to a 100% online school, (fully accredited, though, so got tuition reimbursement from work) but they make us go to 3 in-person "colloquia." Went to the first one in June in Phoenix. Really good. Fun too! Everyone I met was really nice--other students, staff, and faculty. For our courses we have these weekly online discussions that get us thinking and talking to each other--mostly about what we're reading. Jones (my maiden name, BTW) would probably enjoy that part as it helps us learn to think openly, critically, and rationally. What a concept! (Helps to live in DC to fully appreciate that comment!)

Too bad you didn't get through the hoops during the hoop-jumping days, Fallen. Agree that it would be waaaaaay too much BS now. A shame that many fine, knowledgable minds--like your own--are passed over because of the lack of "credentials." Once I finish my PhD (assuming my stupid health holds out), will probably end up teaching online. Researching, too, but likely not online. Need access to an fMRI machine to do stuff I want to.

Another field that's fascinating me is called psychoneuroimmunology. Now that I may also have MS, even MORE interested in learning about that particular set of relationships. It's that kind of thing where being ADD is definitely an asset!

I wouldn't say that I grasp patterns as much as I see relationships where most people don't. They're obvious to me. Would you all call that a pattern? Maybe, I've just not thought about it that way. Oh, but I do have the "built-in lying meter" thing going. I tell by people's eyes. Not sure what about them, I just kind of know. But don't have verification so can't be sure.

Have a wonderful book to recommend, written by a friend, that's so relevant to this discussion. It's called "The Whisper in Your Heart" by Stephen G. Scalese and explains where these "intuitions" come from. Very easy to read, too, not expensive, and exceptionally powerful and useful. He gave me mine but you can get it for under at Amazon. Oh, and Fallen, Steve spent 10 years in the seminary before leaving (realized before taking his vows that he liked sex too much and that wasn't a good trait for a priest to have), so left. His book is spiritual but not a bit "religious." He's now an LCSW.

Fallen, you might enjoy "The Selfish Gene." I started but haven't finished it. I'd probably never actually read this stuff if I weren't in school. School gives me the structure and motivation to read things I find fascinating once I've got an excuse to get into them. Maybe why I'm an educator. It's always been an enjoyable experience for me, unlike most people. Odd, I guess, but thank heavens someplace is!

Another recommend for you, Fallen, is "Mind Wide Open." Check out the reviews at Amazon and see if it might tickle your fancy. Nice overview of neuroscience by an excellent science writer. Hey, maybe computer science writing might be your forte???

[QUOTE=GlenW]

Maybe I don't have ADHD?? LOL

[/QUOTE]

But boy can you creatively write. So, awe ha! You do have a talent & creativity after all!

Edited. And now that I have taken the time to read post following yours I see many others are saying the same thing. Guess that should tell ya something about yourself (and about me).

Auntie38639.6585648148 [QUOTE=sachetm]

Yeah, I tried a semester at Fort Hayes (very cheap, very high quality - cost about 30% of phoenix). Got a 4.0 GPA and then ADDed my way out of the classes. (because I was editing a weekly TV show, preparing a commercial DVD release, working a 60 hour week at my day job, doing wrestling shows 4 times a month, being a parent etc). Since the only real reason for me to get a degree would be to work in either the intelligence field (not a US citizen so can't do that) or law enforcement work (which I would be too old for by the time I graduated on the only schedule I could work out) and my complete inability to fit within a normal curriculem ( Sorry Prof, your coursework was tedious so instead I decided to write a thesis on something more interesting) it just didnt make sense to waste the investment. In all honesty Im at a point in my career where my lack of credentials dont have any impact whatsoever, and often helps in many subtle and not so subtle ways. Still, it bothers me occasionally simply because it would be nice to have someone teach me and remove the responsibility from myself.
[QUOTE]

Another field that's fascinating me is called psychoneuroimmunology.
[/QUOTE]

Argh. People have to stop suggesting new fields of study! There goes 8 hours on google sometime in the near future. My philosophy professor had a game where she'd always suggest new books based on my email discussions with her, I tapped out when the 16th was delivered by the 5th week of the semester.

[QUOTE]

I wouldn't say that I grasp patterns as much as I see relationships where most people don't. They're obvious to me. Would you all call that a pattern?[/QUOTE] Yes.

ARGH MORE BOOKS! Thanks for the suggestions, I'll follow up on them for sure. My wife's been trying to get me to write a book or two for the last 5 years, and recently my therapist has also been 'suggesting' that I do something about it. Tech stuff might be fun but I'm far more into this weird nexus of reality/perception/religion/biology/technology/quantum theory/philosophy - it's pretty much what motivates me to do everything else at this point, as one sheds more light on the other, it's like a chinese puzzle box that I want to understand (not solve). Your friend sounds fascinating, i went through a very devout period in my early teens and learnt to enjoy studying religious texts - of course since then those studies branched into some interesting areas and it's not unusual to hear my name spoken in the same sentence as 'heretic' and 'blasphemer' - eh, that's dogma for you ;) Life without hatemail is no life at all, as my wrestling persona would say.....I did mention the wrestling right?

Fallen, if you apply for US Citizenship you can work in intelligence. I hold a Top Secret/SCI Clearance and my husband and I are unemployed with no education. It can be done! Chjones,

re: evolution: it fits, it's just become far more complex than Darwin's initial theory - and what the hell is with people not understanding 'theory' when used in a scientific context??. Funnily enough I've recently been involved in a very long discussion on evolution, creationism and intelligent design - definitely fun if you can find open minded people from each school of thought (or ADD enough that they can understand each viewpoint). I've PMd you some other stuff on the subject as it's a contentious issue to some people and this isnt the forum for me to giggle derisively at them.

re: lying: Absolutely, I dont mention it in general but its that whole intuitive thing kicking in. It's like that person is shifted at an angle to the rest of reality and I just feel the distortion.

Hey, a post with less than 3 paragraphs! (this is not technically a paragraph)
hey i didn't get any pm from you....

computer genius huh? and can't work the pm system?????? just kidding! but no, i didn't get anything. could you re-send?

thanks fallen.

cj
anyway put it out here - why not? i don't think anyone would be
offended (i mean look at the crazy sh*te i post and no-one
cares) or laugh derisively. i have always been of the opinion
that questions are by definition good. who on this earth
actually knows everything?

or maybe in the hangout topic if people don't want the whole
ADD thing hi-jacked by an entirely off-topic thread.

what i find a little worrying about many scientists on the
evolution thing is that if you question it --- they automatically
presume you are doing so because of religious beliefs or
something (fricking irrational presumption to make from a basic
a priori statement that you disagree with their theory --- what
kind of a leap in logic is that???)

that i find kinda annoying. i get the point that i don't have
anything better to put in its place but that doesn't automatically
mean they are right. i hate that kind of (il)logic -- my annoying
sister used to do that all the time.

"oh well, if you had children you'd understand it." when talking
about an entirely unrelated topic. what????

madness.
chjones38639.4979513889 [QUOTE=sachetm]

{Semiotics}

If you like to "think," which you appear to, you may want to consider academia. I can imagine you as a very good professor in a computer science department.

{Neuroscience}

[/QUOTE]

Thanks for what you said, I appreciate it. In public forums I'm used to a lot of what I say being outside a lot of peoples spheres of knowledge - and I know that can turn me off of a post pretty easily so I imagine my stuff reading a lot like the parental figures in Peanuts cartoons.

I haven't taken a look at semiotics, but have studied a little linguistics - while I can't say I agree with most of Chomsky's conclusions I am fascinated by it's application to perceptual and consensual realities. Thanks for the link - bookmarked and given it a quick scan...much to think about there.

Related is what you mentioned regarding Neuroscience, the majority of my reading so far has been in the field of neurotheosophy, something I find endlessly fascinating - almost the neuropsychological/biological equivelent of quantum physics and how it breaks reality down into less concrete abstract building blocks.

As for academia: heh a couple of things...1, they tend to place some stock in academic achievment, as a high school dropout I doubt my prospects of employment would be very good. 2. College and I are simply not meant to be, even medicated it's an educational model that runs counter to my own ways of learning. 3. I would consider a degree based on credits earned from life experience to be cheating :) . 4. I flunked computer science horribly. 5. It's a very very dull subject to learn. 6. They make you learn LISP. 7. I could never force anyone to learn LISP. 8. Any teaching job I take will include a mountainside and optional loincloth (possibly fashioned out of silver duct tape as a reminder of my geek origins) - or at the very least involve me sounding like that guy in the Kung Fu tv show before entering an slickly edited montage of me kicking the crap out of my students while a slightly cheesy sounding song accompanies it that references 'heart', 'discipline', 'fight', 'eyes of a member of the felidae panthera of your choice', or something similar. 9. Comp Sci is for losers who can't work out how to read books by themselves

Not boring!

ya know i am with you on the pattern recognition thing, Fallen. i have an easy ability to spot patterns (why i work well on IQ tests i reckon) they just stand out, the pictorial ones to me. i can't see why others can't see them when they are quite clearly there!!! but hey, whatever.

i kinda feel the same even when i know nothing about a subject, i believe i can feel when i think something is 'off'.

and i can really tell when someone is lying - or it just doesn't 'ring true' for some reason too. (and i did an experiment with that too --- at school, as a test, a whole bunch of mates came in and said various things and i was to point to the one thing that wasn't true. result 100%!) so no chance of a boyfriend having an affair on me and me not realising that's for sure! and it's not even direct things. i went home for christmas two years ago to my Mum's and we were all sitting around the table and i looked up at my step-father and just looked at him looking at us and I knew, clear as a bell, right there and then that he was having an affair. weird huh? and what's more, i knew he was thinking about re-telling this particular scene to his mistress.... (i don't know how i knew - perhaps very slightly psychic or just something in his bearing, his answers, his attitudes just gave it away and all those patterns just all came together at that moment).

it's kinda useful - of course some people just simply don't believe you can know things without the benefit of intellect or prior learning but i don't buy that. i am with socrates when he said we are born knowing everything but the shock of life or whatever it is he said, makes us lose access to that knowledge.

it doesn't explain why a woman who is pregnant suddenly craves gherkins (unless she is a nutritional scientist, she is unlikely to know that it has mineral X in it which is the best thing for a developing foetus in the 24th week - or whatever) but she still knows she wants it. very clever.

but people are so quick to dismiss - like the whole evolution thing. there is seriously something wrong with that pattern (not that i say i know, and not that i believe the world was made in 7 days either) but it just doesn't fit. at all. (from what little i know of it).

if life just wants to exist ---- then why are they just not 20 million amoebas still hanging around being life... so they say well, chance mutation, ok no i don't see that leading to the extreme complexity we have now but then they say well, evolving to become the more successful species (survival of the fittest) but then again why the bright plumages and all on birds that is definitely a hindrance to have a huge bright purple easily spotted tail dragging along the ground.... oh, they say that's sexual selection (i mean c'mon talk about reaching here) --- why would you pick a mate that is likely to mean your offspring are gonna get eaten faster than dull glenda's over there? huh?.

ya know. but because i am not a scientist and know nothing about it --- people will jump up and down and say well, how can you know??? and i don't. but like with everything i do - i just look at it and say hmm seems a bit off. can't tell you why - but it just is. yes, things evolve and adapt. humans in particular evolve (but we are slightly a special case --- i think we evolve and other animals adapt, there is a difference for me!) but that is missing out the driving force somewhere. there is a huge hole, a ginormous gap that no-one has addressed within the whole thing. so the pattern as they put it to us is all off. i can recognise it as wrong even if i don't know how to make it right.... i have an intuition for that which doesn't look right.

even down to criminals --- there have been a couple of high-profile murders in England where i just know (how i don't know) that they have imprisoned the wrong guy. i don't really care so much, both of the 'guilty' guys were homeless misfits and are probably as happy in jail as out of it. and the police then can mark the case 'solved'. of course, it leaves the tricky problem of a murderer out there. but in both these cases it was a definite specific murder of a specific person rather than a random sicko running about... so i guess they are no danger to the public. why am i rambling on? it's cos i don't want to get on with any work.....

oh hoh. forgotten what i wanted to say anyways.

chjones38639.4302893519Speaking of 'intuintion' does anyone else have that happen...I'm constanly 'guessing' how much something costs, and being very accurate, what someone is going to say before they say it and other unrelated intuitive aspects that have little to no bearing is helping me in life...maybe you should be the next donald trump

money intuition? Nope not me! I'm the ADHD equivalent of rainman. How much for that jacket? "A million dollars - definitely a million dollars definitely"

I am always going on to the 'net to check out a model or style of something to see if I got ripped off. Many times I have.

I spent a long time evaluating what someone might say too far into the future and being wrong because I was a pessimistic neurotic curmudgeon. I would always assume the worst - only being right less than half the time.

I find these days that I'm much better at seeing between the words and knowing what's actually meant. I don't try and get too deep into it but it seems to be more accurate as I learn about myself and others.

Oh - thanks EVERYONE for the kind kind words. I was being a bit sorry for myself I guess. I do wish that I could have received a bit of artisitic creativity with the rest. I wanted as a child to be able to at least be par with what I saw them all put out on easel and paper. It's just not in the cards for me. I do hope to eventually sit down and learn to play guitar - I was going to years ago but ADHD tended to keep me on track long enough. Before I could build the callous on my fingers required to play I would sell whatever guitar I bought. I do play poorly on the keyboard - would have to get lessons and learn sheet music to improve at all.

Thx for the article brookelea...it was very interesting...I don't like the Donalds hair, it's not really his is it....

Maybe this is an answer to why I feel so 'space'ed out so much....

[QUOTE=pilgrim]Speaking of 'intuintion' does anyone else have that happen...I'm constanly 'guessing' how much something costs, and being very accurate, what someone is going to say before they say it and other unrelated intuitive aspects that have little to no bearing is helping me in life...[/QUOTE]

I do all the above and more. Mine help sometimes, though. Like when we're out and about, I have this uncanny knack for knowing when we're going to run into someone who could mean trouble, ex: hubby's ex g/f. It's like I can detect a ripple in the placid stream I've made for myself and my family.

Edit - this is my theory on this, and it sounds wacko - but we all know everything all ready -- like an animal knows when theres trouble or bad weather is coming, etc. Our 'intelligence' , which seperates us from the animals, gets in the way and blocks our intuition. That's why our first instinct is right - it is right, based on all the knowledge that we have. Our 'intelligence' comes in and causes us to second guess. I believe that when we *don't* think, we already know. For instance, I'm hyperfocusing on the computer -- phone rings, and I say aloud "We don't want any" or "What does my mom want now?" I always seem to know who is calling when I'm not paying attention :) Given the opportunity to mull it over while going to the phone, I am usually wrong. I think ADHD people may be better at sensing intuition because the *intelligence* often gives us headaches and we just don't want to process it! AKA when we can't concentrate to read something, or whatever. Anyway this is my crazy thoughts on the matter! :)
HeidiMarie38635.3384722222Less I be confused, I'm not saying we're not *intelligent* per se, but that we're more in tune with intuition. Intelligence doesnt necessarily mean being smart, it varies. A person with a low IQ has a low intelligence, high IQ, high intelligence. An ADD/ADHD'er typically has high intelligence, but I think at the same time their "spaced out" and "absentmindness" are just letting intuition take over for a few moments. HeidiMarie > > >I hate it when I change my mind @ something-yur right @ the 2nd guessing...I'm always wrong when i do it...but it logicalyy seems so right. Is logic the enemy of the ADhD'r...Interesting article. I'm always telling people here to give themselves more credit, and I can't even do that myself.

I heard about self esteem....I don't have it. Wait ...I do have VERY
low self esteem....

LTC - you can have some of mine - I have lumps of it out back!

Once you get some talking therapy and some meds you'll find some self-esteem. You're a person of great worth to a great many people - and you'll see when you get that fog out of your eyes. I know you will.

[QUOTE=Fallen] DVD? I also do a lot of video production work and was putting together a commercial DVD release at the time. Infinifilm might be somewhat fun - I tend to use my authoring software's abilities quite extensively when i'm bored or interested - when you build them you realize how manufacturers ignore a lot of the extended functionality of the DVD spec - it's understandable though, I can program a DVD to repsond to pretty much any kind of keypress your remote can do. You can imagine how it would pretty much render using it too complicated for many people who just use their DVD player as a VCR (was it here or somewhere else I was talking about paradigm mapping?.....hmm I think it was somewhere else).
[/QUOTE]

Which software? Scenarist? From what I understand, it's the most powerful and flexible. I could only afford Reel DVD which meant I ran into problems with the PRG (no, darn, don't think that's the right acronym--some kind of packet or other) limit which meant I could only have one menu in my subtitles per RPG (whatever) which screwed up my entire design. I wanted to put up a clickable icon whenever I wanted to and then return the person right back there when they were finished perusing the offline material. But you can't do that with Reel. And I sure couldn't afford Scenarist!

My other major problem was the public domain film I choose (certainly all I could afford) for my demo. I used a 1948 color film, "Life with Father." Even though it provided wonderful opportunities for offline material and starred a young Elizabeth Taylor, unlike something more "universal" like "It's a Wonderful Life," it was just too dated and boring for people. They couldn't see past their disinterest in the film to "get" what I was attempting to do with it.

Knowing WHEN to go offline and with what is the design part. The one Infinifilm title I saw was terrible at knowing when to do this. That's where I think I could really help them but unfortunately, even if I was in good health (which I'm decidedly not at the moment), they're in LA and that's certainly not a place I'd want to move. I was out there a few years ago and found it both ugly and superficial. Some places like Santa Monica were nice, but traffic is so bad, not to mention the cost of living.

What kind of titles do you produce and how are you doing with this business-wise?

[QUOTE=sachetm]

Which software? Scenarist? [QUOTE]

I use Sony Vegas and DVD Architect. Stable, lightweight, excellent workflow options, very professional results.

Check out www.archive.org, they have GBs of PD movies from the 30s to present day.

DVD production is a hobby, mostly pro-wrestling, but I've done music videos and a little corporate commercial work in the past. It's purely relaxation, when something isnt fun I like to be able to drop it as necessary. With a demanding day job it's relegated to a fun hobby - I think it would get annoying if it was something I HAD to do.

It's like wrestling, hitting people with steel chairs is only fun when a paycheck isnt attached to it.

Fallen, I'm hoping this won't be toooooo academic and boring for you and that given what you've said about this, you'll even be interested! It's my response to our unit on water memory and homeopathy for my alt med course.

---------------------------------------------------

Homeopathy is a type of alternative medicine in which extremely dilute preparations of natural substances are used to stimulate the body's self healing process (Pelletier, 2000). Homeopaths utilize plants, herbs, animal products, minerals, and chemicals to treat illnesses and restore health. They believe in the notion that like cures like (Pelletier, 2000; Weil, 1998). In homeopathic medicine this means that if a substance simulates symptoms of a particular illness in healthy people, then in very dilute solutions, the substance can cure individuals who have that illness.

Dr. Lo proposed a theory that in water containing very dilute solutions there are novel, stable structures which occur in water molecules at room temperature and under normal atmospheric pressure (Pelletier, 2000, p.202). Homeopaths utilize these solutions to treat many different diseases and illnesses (Milgrom, 2003). The substances in these solutions are thought to become more powerful as treatments when they are diluted (Weil, 1998). What has been questionable about theses solutions, and homeopathic medicine throughout history, is that the substances in the solutions are so dilute that they are unlikely to contain any of the molecules of the active compound in them. However, according to Dr. Lo's research the water molecules have a memory for the diluted homeopathic solutions were in them, and thus retain different structures from normal, unadulterated water (Pelletier, 2000). These solutions are then used to treat various conditions to restore health.

In support of Dr. Lo's theory, a chemist Louis Rey performed studies using thermoluminescence to study the structure of solids. This technique involved using radiation to bath a chilled sample, them warming the sample to determine how energy was released in the form of a light pattern that reflects the atomic structure of the sample. In the report by Milgrom (2003), when Rey compared the light pattern released from normal water, to that of various diluted solutions, in which no molecular compounds could still exist, the light pattern was found to be different. The studies that Rey did followed stringent protocol and the solutions were made with strict measurements of ultra-dilute lithium and sodium chloride. When the results were determined, Rey compared his findings to the theories of homeopathy from Dr. Lo, stating that he does believe that water has a memory for molecules that were diluted in them, even in very minute amounts, and that the resulting structure of the solution will remain different than that of normal, pure water (Milgrom, 2003).

There is still much controversy about this study of Rey which was reported by Milgrom (2003), just like Dr. Lo's original theory. However, there will be proponents and doubters of homeopathy forever. What is important to take out of these ideas is that in science, research will always be carried out to challenge the known, in attempts to find new realities. Scientists in opposition to Dr. Lo's theory and very inflexible in their ways are probably not open to change. This is distressing, because as we know from past history, change in medicine has always occurred, usually for the betterment of society. If medicine was still occurring in heroic ways, as in the 1700s, I think that many people would rather die than seek treatments. More research into homeopathy and other alternative medicines should continue, despite the skeptics who only hold steadfast to allopathic treatments, refuting all forms of alternative medicine. In this manner, the medical society might find other supporters of alternative remedies, just like Louis Rey supported Dr. Lo's theory of homeopathy.

References:

Milgrom, L. (2003). Is this evidence for memory of water? New Scientist, 178(2399), 22.

Pelletier, K. (2000). The best alternative medicine.