What happens after long term drug use? | ADHD Information

[QUOTE=ADHDisBOGUS]

Here's what happens when a child is forced to take drugs from a very young age, the story shared by a mother, posted to a web site recently ...

name=Joyce OOOO phone=586-0000 fax=586-000000 (Identity withheld)message=my daughter has been on ritalin, then concerta,forADHD starting at age 4ys old. when she turned 14ys old. she begain cutting her self and was very mean to me ( would hit me and kick me ) they put her on trileptal. and said she was bi polar reading what I just read as alarmed me greatly. would it be safe for me to take her off these med.? If so,how can I do this safely . If I let her stay on these drugs knowing what I know now I feel that I am harming her. Please response quickly

[/QUOTE]

Dahhhrrr.... Anecdotal evidence is good. Fire bad.

Look - I can do the same thing.

Here's what happens when a parent gets freaked and decides NOT to medicate their child when necessary for severe ADHD

Name= Identity= Fax (Fax? WTF?!?) = None of it matters - at least I admit this is fictional but could happen.

message= I went to the website for ADHD support. I asked about the medications available for my child - a 6 year old darling boy with inattentive ADHD. He has trouble staying focused in class, tends to be disruptive and can't stay out of trouble with his teacher. He is falling behind, having trouble making friends as they shy away from his behavior. He can't stop or alter how he acts - it's the ADHD not him making waves.

I was bombarded in the medications section with a number of scary-looking messages. All were supposedly from people with children who were taking meds and became dead or addicts. No names were used or anything - but hey it is on ADHDNews and it's considered legit so I read on. They said the meds are guaranteed to be highly deadly to kids causing heart attacks, making them kill (I think they were talking about ADHD - what's an SSRI?) and turn into drug addicts.

I got scared. I told the doctors not to touch my DS with any of that deadly stuff. I'll deal with my son the best I can and change his diet and feed him this fish stuff they talk about.

My wife and I aren't rich but we'll try and get him into therapy. I'm in the US and my job hasn't got much coverage over medications so I'll pay what I can handle. We'll see how it goes!

NOW - project 5 years from that point

message= My son was 6yo when diagnosed with ADHD. I was talked out of getting him medication because of the advice I found on a good ADHDNews message board. They made it seem so scary I was afraid to even try it on him.

Now he's 11. He's been held back twice because he can't focus on homework, he's been sent home often for not being able to behave well enough in class not to interfere with the large classroom that is in my son's school. They have over 40 students and no budget for special ed assistance.

I couldn't afford home schooling - my wife and I both work out of the home so that was not an option. With our son doing poorly in education and being difficult to focus his energy it's been taxing on our marriage and we may get divorced. We just can't afford councilling for him - and the food changes and health additives didn't do enough to balance him out.

My MD says if we got him on a short-term at least medicine like Ritalin at age 6, he could have learned the focus and self-control long ago - and avoided the setbacks and bullying by fellow students that he has suffered the last 5 years. He cries a lot - and we can't get him to communicate his feelings - he says we wouldn't understand and he's holding in so much.

Oh - if only I had not gone to that message group and listened! What a different life we could have had!! My son is too special for me to have not tried everything in my power!!

Wow - that felt good! You guys have the right idea!! I'll start using anecdotal evidence in every posting - don't use names or places or anything verifyable - just emotional blackmail!!

Thanks guys - I am learning a lot from you.

Oh- and this has happened in real life again, and again and again. Not all of us are rich like you want us to be. We have mortgages and lives and ex-spousal support and inadequate insurance and other kids and overcrowded schools and *deep breath in whooosh* bankrupcies and single parent households and expensive therapists and inadequate medical advice *pant pant* and family pressure and latchkey kids and the small town inadequate infrastructures. You know - the stuff you never think about?

Meds help because we NEED the help to control these things with our children. We can't afford daily therapy for them. We can't afford to hire a coach, a teacher's aide (the schools are underfunded now - what makes you think theres a teacher's aide when they don't have chalkbrushes!?!?), a specialist, etc.

Are you going to hire a helper for my children?? Are you going to pay for the dietician, the at-home teacher, the attorney to force the school to help my child learn?

Nope? didn't think so.

nuff said

We shall meet again Moriarty (well a mentally challenged version maybe snicker)

[QUOTE=reality]

bugzappers,

What is your problem with people posting factual information about prescription drugs... especially those given to children ? I realize that many of these posts paint the drugs in a very negative light.

But you are certainly free to post "positve" FACTUAL INFORMATION about the drugs.

Your personal attacks on those who post the facts simply lessens your credibility in the eyes of those members who simply read and do not post on this forum.

[/QUOTE]

Reality, that is a pretty high bar for these people to cross!!! Psychiatry has been trying to promote their drugs to children for decades and have never been able to prove any real benefit or any real existence of the accusation they make against these children. Do you think they could come up with factual information?

bugzappers,

But you are certainly free to post "positve" FACTUAL INFORMATION about the drugs.

Your personal attacks on those who post the facts simply lessens your credibility in the eyes of those members who simply read and do not post on this forum.

YOU DO HAVE ADHD,,, YOU HAVE TO GET IN THE LAST WORD... HA HA,, I KNEW IT./.... ADHD BOGUS AND CURUS AND BREN AND FAMILY ARE ALL THE SAME PERSON... THEY ARE TRYING TO CORNER THE MEDS AND TAKE THEM ALL FOR THEMSELVES... YOU SLY ADHD ERS..

ADHD IS BOGUS HAS ADHD..... HA HA HA

NOW YOUR REALITY... change monster,,, change again..

and your info is political and is NOT A PERSONAL EXPERIENCE,,, your postings are someone elses thoughts,.,,, get a life and a thought process
bugzappers38645.7583217593[QUOTE=sdw227]

Please address post pertaining to children in the PARENTS or CHILDREN section. It makes it difficult for legitamate people seeking specific medical information to wade through spam post such as these.

[/QUOTE]

Could you please refer me to the medical section on these boards? I have seen a lot of stated theories and a lot of personal attacks, and a lot of good information about the lack of any real medical evidence of ADHD, but I have not found the part that ties the field of real medicine (as in identifying biological diseases and disorders and treating their causes directly) to ADHD?

[QUOTE=curus]

NON-stimulants: SSRIs, Tricyclics, etc also given to

CHILDREN diagnosed as ADHD. Almost ALL psychotropic medication information is relevant.

http://www.ncpamd.com/NonStimulants.htm

[/QUOTE]

Thank you Curus, clearly you have been around this issue long enough to know that these psychiatrists prescribe any drug they want to kids, usually dictated by which drug companies are offering free vacations, or which experiments they want to perform that day. Sometime they prescribe five or six drugs at once.

Oh shut up bogus,,, your curus as well as bren and a few others... just shut up and go away,,,

to answer the question...eveyone would have a different response to long term drug use.
We live in a greedy and morally corrupt society and this perverts what should happen with meds, which is...(here we go, in my dreams)
drug companies or some other entity would research and produce drugs for various things, and since all western medicine is based on natural remedies (western medicine is actually "alternative medicine" and natural remedies, used for thousands of years are the established method of curing illness or altering mind/body) some of these drugs may make more use of plants etc. which is what we are supposed to be taking anyway, their complex make up is specifically what we humans need, not a prescription drug (but, when we are suffering we are all grateful for a pharm drug that helps) that mimics part of the plant, this is what causes so many side effects and problems. Then, these drugs would only be

prescribed to the people who should be taking them. I know, that's another planet. But, this is where the public perception of ADHD or depression etc. is influenced because they are hearing stuff in the press or reading about problems with pharms, especially w/kids and these problems are with people who shouldn't even be on the drug, not the people who are taking it legitimately.

I think ADHD got it bad because all it's ever described as is "inattention or hyperactive" which is lame plus how easy to push meds on brainwashed sheep who think that their “lack of concentration” or their child’s natural energy, which wears them out will be “cured ”by a pill cause they’re too lazy to get off their butts and do some hard work to help themselves Even taking the right med isn’t good enough, you have to do lots of other stuff to get better. So then these people whine and raise a fuss when they have side effects or their child has side effects or maybe they shouldn’t be on the drug at all…maybe you’ve been living in a cave in Bunga Bunga but haven’t you heard…about the greed of the drug companies, about the God Complex of docs or all the mistakes they make or how many people die in hospitals each year because of a “mistake” or how many people die every year from taking Aspirin,,,

Reading the post about the endless drug orgy I was perplexed? If you didn’t feel well why stay on the drugs? The whole thing if true only points to that person’s lack of intelligence and inability to think for them self. I’ve been through the medical maze starting 30 years ago and they gave me a couple of different drugs way back when and I only took them for a short time and stopped cause they weren’t making me feel better and over the years have always researched anything to do w/medical issues. They put me on Prozac and I went off as I was becoming a zombie…it’s your body and you listen to it and if you’re deaf to it you end up putting your life in the hands of people who sometimes don’t really give a crap about you..

By the way, ADHD is BRAIN CHEMISTRY. It’s no secret, if you want to see legitimate studies do the research, certainly there is a lot we don’t know about this but that’s the way is has been with everything.
The irony does not escape me that the drug which allows me to function each day without the constant struggle and despair would never have been developed if the drug co.’s didn’t have a plan in place to prescribe to anybody and everybody they could get hold of and they have some docs who aid in this. But, in the end, who is shoving the pill down your throat?

[QUOTE=bugzappers] YOU DO HAVE ADHD,,, YOU HAVE TO GET IN THE LAST WORD... HA HA,, I KNEW IT./.... ADHD BOGUS AND CURUS AND BREN AND FAMILY ARE ALL THE SAME PERSON... THEY ARE TRYING TO CORNER THE MEDS AND TAKE THEM ALL FOR THEMSELVES... YOU SLY ADHD ERS..

ADHD IS BOGUS HAS ADHD..... HA HA HA

NOW YOUR REALITY... change monster,,, change again..

and your info is political and is NOT A PERSONAL EXPERIENCE,,, your postings are someone elses thoughts,.,,, get a life and a thought process
[/QUOTE]

These idiots aren't trying to save children. They don't believe a word they are saying. They are Trolls who get a kick out of ticking people off. If you want to save some children get off this board and go get another job so you can donate the money to a charity that saves starving children. Do something meaningful as you are getting nowhere here. You will never change anyones mind so get lost you loosers. BTW: I begged the administration to get rid of these fools so we can have some peace for a while.

[QUOTE=ADHDisBOGUS][QUOTE=sdw227]

[/QUOTE]

Good point. The site doesn't appear to have a 'medical' section.

partial post - editing

curus38646.1499652778[QUOTE=sabina]

The irony does not escape me that the drug which allows me to function each day without the constant struggle and despair would never have been developed if the drug co.’s didn’t have a plan in place to prescribe to anybody and everybody they could get hold of and they have some docs who aid in this. But, in the end, who is shoving the pill down your throat?

[/QUOTE]

Some good point in there Sabina, but there are a couple of things that aren't so simple.

Firstly, when adverse effects on mind-altering drugs do occur, they often present as symptoms of psychiatric illness, cognitive deterioration, akathisia, agitation, delirium, mood swings, memory loss, depression, etc and patients are then persuaded by their doctors that they are in fact suffering from mental disorders. That if they remain on the drugs this will wear off in a few weeks. That if they're no better then they need a higher dose or a different medication. When the mind is 'altered' by those kinds of adverse effects its difficult for people to rationalise that it IS the drug unless a more 'physical' type of symptom presents. Because their mind is ALTERED. Their thinking is, and their perception is.

Physical adverse effects that present often do so suddenly. Heart attacks, stroke, seizures - these can kill without prior warning. Adults and children.

And of course - who's 'shoving the pill' down children's throats? It isn't the children. Children have little say in it. If they're subdued because they feel strange and unreal and are suffering adverse effects, then its interpreted as the pill working. If it makes them hyper, then its interpreted as their disorder not being corrected and so they need more, or a different drug etc.

Mothers who have tried to take their children off because they realise that it IS the drugs have been accused of child neglect. Teachers have refused education if a parent does not drug their child. Children have been taken into care because a parent does not medicate their child. So just who IS 'shoving the pill' down the child's throat?

curus38646.1467476852Curus, do you have first hand experience with ADHD or taking medications. If so, please share your experiences. We can look things up on the internet such as your above post but your first hand experiences are VERY helpful to the rest of us. Please share them!

Hi sdw, I have shared experiences elsewhere. But that is not in places where a few people are doing there best to drive others away, other than on one other site where I've seen both personal experiences and that of others used very cruelly against them.

For instance - a grieving mother who lost her child to suicide in withdrawal akathisia was accused by a small group of people on a public board IN DETAIL (detail they invented - they didn't know the mother in question) of having neglected her child, cruelly treated her child, alleging that they'd seen the child and that the child looked dirty and unhappy and in filthy clothes, hungry, etc, and that the child committed suicide because of the Mom's treatment of her. Far more (invented) detail than what I've just given you there.

First of all those perpetrators on that particular website showed a kindly interest in that mother, asked her to tell her story. And once she did so the wave of constant accusations came pouring in. For a mother already grieving, and already feeling 'guilty' as everyone does when someone dies - "if only I'd dont this" , "if only I'd done something different a moment or two earlier" if you get the picture, it happens to everyone when in grief - that was an unbearable and absolutely heartless way of attacking.

I experienced similar on my own personal story as well, though it couldn't possibly have hurt me as much as it hurt a mother distraught with grief after losing a child who hadn't yet reached teenage.

I've seen more than one person on this site people using the 'ritalinkills' site as a kind of 'weapon' against the people they think of as trolls. I believe Ritalinkills has children who haven't survived as well? People who use that show that even parents who have lost children are 'game', and so would likewise distort any personal information to attack.

You may be asking out of genuine interest - if you are, then I hope you can see from the above why I for one am reluctant to post anything personal on this website. And why I post the articles instead.

I have to leave now for the weekend, have a good one yourself.

curus38646.2644212963hey, ADHS is BOGUS, perhaps you should suck may ass. That would be the best source for you. You are just an opportunist asshole trying to play on peoples fears. Share with me your qualifications that are above mine...and keep in mind, I'm not some ignorant idoit you wish me to be...

LOL sdw!! whoa - how do you REALLY feel about it!!

Man - the reality/balanced postings are just so bad they are almost funny. I love how I never see any ADHD numbers - always the equivalent of "cars kill millions of people a year - here's my info on plane crashes to back it up"

It's not hard to brush away the nonsense postings when they constantly both bring in numbers without references, and numbers that have nothing to do with ADHD, us and our children.

Nobody's killing kids here. We are informed consumers who want to make choices with the given information available today. We don't want to wait for some far-off future where some new med may be available with bigger and better results. Our kids are TODAY. We want help TODAY - so we get it!

Its like I said, I could argue with the paperboy about the news and get further. These guys have nothing invested or nothing written to talk about.

YEAH, GO TEAM ADHDISBAD, SUCK ASS!!!
bugzappers38648.8337384259

http://www.asfar.org/zine/2nd/drugs.html

"Another class of drugs frequently used to treat young children for ADHD...

...The tricyclic category of drugs is also associated with cardiac
problems, as well as tinnitus, seizures, increased ocular pressure, vomiting, diarrhea, and anorexia. Particularly troubling with this class of drugs is the risk of tardive dyskinesia, a disabling, irreversable neuromuscular disorder which appears after years of drug treatment.8 If these drugs begin to be administered at preschool ages and continue to be taken throughout the school years, the risk of tardive dyskinesia is greatly increased..."

http://psychcentral.com/blog/archives/2005/10/17/tardive-dys kinesia-jury-victory-of-16-million/

Tardive Dyskinesia Jury Victory of .6 million

"On October 15, 2005 a Virginia jury delivered a .6 million verdict in a tardive dyskinesia case, Sylvia Jones v. Jeffrey Alan Margolis. The amount was especially large considering the small town setting of Tappahannock in southeastern Virginia. Also, the defendant was a well-known internist in the community.

In 1982 when she was twenty-one years old, her original internist placed Sylvia Jones on Triavil, a combination of the neuroleptic perphenazine (Trilafon) and the antidepressant amitriptyline (Elavil). At that time she had situational stresses that were causing anxiety..."

NON-stimulants: SSRIs, Tricyclics, etc also given to

CHILDREN diagnosed as ADHD. Almost ALL psychotropic medication information is relevant.

http://www.ncpamd.com/NonStimulants.htm

"...The tricyclic antidepressants, such as desipramine (Norpramine) imipramine (Tofranil) and nortryptiline (Pamelor) have been shown to effectively treat AD/HD..."

"...The mood stabilizers are traditionally used for Bipolar Disorder. (Manic Depressive Disorder) These medications include Lithium and several anticonvulsant (seizure) medications such as valproate (Depakote) carbamazepine (Tegretol) and others. There is debate among child psychiatrists about the percentage of AD/HD youth who have Bipolar Disorder at the same time. Some see mood swings as a part of the AD/HD. Others see it as a sign of a second separate disorder. In either case, the mood stabilizers may be useful to help modulate irritability and rapid mood shifts..."

"...The Selective Serotonin Reuptake Inhibitors (SSRIs) include paroxetine (Paxil) sertraline (Zoloft) fluvoxamine (Luvox) and others. They probably do not treat the core symptoms of AD/HD but may be helpful for irritability, anxiety or depression accompanying the AD/HD..."

"...The antipsychotics (haloperidol, risperidone and others) are not usually used to treat AD/HD. They may be useful for other disorders that may also be present. Such disorders include Bipolar Disorder, Pervasive Developmental Disorder, and Tourette Disorder We may occasionally use these medications for individuals who have AD/HD complicated by agitation and mood swings..."

(And others)

Thank you.

[QUOTE=ADHDisBOGUS]

Here's what happens when a child is forced to
take drugs from a very young age, the story shared by a mother, posted
to a web site recently ...

name=Joyce OOOO phone=586-0000 fax=586-000000 (Identity
withheld)message=my daughter has been on ritalin, then
concerta,forADHD starting at age 4ys old. when she turned 14ys old. she
begain cutting her self and was very mean to me ( would hit me and kick
me ) they put her on trileptal. and said she was bi polar reading what I
just read as alarmed me greatly. would it be safe for me to take her off
these med.? If so,how can I do this safely . If I let her stay on these drugs
knowing what I know now I feel that I am harming her. Please response
quickly

[/QUOTE]

Make a note for yourself to go out and buy some great shampoo. Because
after you get YOUR HEAD OUT OF YOUR ASS, you'll need to wash the crap
outta your hair. Oh..and do us a favor and not breed. Thank you.

More about tardive dyskenisia and

ADHD MEDICATIONS

"Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder
Medication Information...

"...Neuroleptics

Neuroleptics were developed to treat serious mental disorders such as psychosis and schizophrenia. They are indicated for use in children and adolescents with significant psychotic symptoms such as hallucinations or delusions. Two of these drugs, Haldol® and Mellaril®, have been used to treat ADD like symptoms (especially aggression and explosiveness) in children and adolescents. These medications appear to have some usefulness in controlling severe symptoms that are not helped by other medications. However the American Academy of Child & Adolescent Psychiatry cautions that "they should be used only in the most unusual circumstances because of lesser effectiveness relative to other drugs, excess sedation and potential cognitive dulling, and risk of tardive dyskinesia or neuroleptic malignant syndrome"..."

what happens after long term drug use?

You start having dreams of sexual contact with your pets??? I dunno, I give up.

Tell us your experiences first... oh wait, you have NONE... Because your just a fly, SHOO FLY
bugzappers38643.8819907407

She had the "best" medical care that money could buy....

To help you, I can cursorily ennumerate the effects of psychotropics on
just me and my family--an outline, so to speak:

1) Verbally "forced" to take Paxil. It's "not addictive; it's the newest
thing; you shouldn't have to suffer....." My doctor (at this time) is
a psychopharmacologist, head of UCLA psychopharm department.

2) Not suspecting I am intoxicated or "comfortably numb," I make
decisions
in cavalier ways I had NEVER made in my life; I destroy my career, my
life.
(No accountability; lack of responsibility; horrendous decision-making,
and
all that--the things one does on liquor, and I don't drink...)

I am also losing respect from those I love. TORTURE, and having
no
idea why....

3) The Paxil does no more than create numbness in thought; oddly, my
emotions are just as frazzled, if not more--well, what with the mess I
was making of things--but now I don't actually know why (sadly there's a
split between the calmness of my thinking and the agitation in my body--I
think my body was trying to save me, to be honest).

I'm put on a cocktail of three more drugs:
(1) to stop the myoclonic jerks, which were severe; (2) lessen anxiety,
which was now greater than before my first Paxil; (3) get out of bed in
the morning after all this sedation.

4) Become violently ill years later; 3 and 1/2 years in bed and
hospitals;

Mayo Clinic in Rochester. Gave each doc a hand-out of my meds. "Oh,
Thanks; wish all my patients would do this!"

     'Never looked at it. They were looking for an occult or atypical
cancer--the NOBEL PRIZE, for all I know--over 20 MRI's, X-Rays, CScans,
samples, Nuclear MRI, 350ish vials of blood--I started counting at what
I guessed was 12, ultrasound, skin tests, breathing tests and on--every
test in the book; my symptoms were so many and so disparate.

     When seizures were overtaking me, and doctors were acting as if I
were making them up--"they don't show up on the EEG"--I called Merck (yes,
Merck).

     Pharmacist says, "Serotonin poisoning; you're on three
contra-indicated drugs. There are nine symptoms of serotonin toxicity; the last three are seizures, coma, and death, and they go very fast."

     Stop one serotinergic drug; seizures stop. The Merck pharmacist,
whom I never saw, read the list, took it seriously, and I live. (More on
psychopharm's response!)

5) Still looking for cause of illness; am on 9 medications for physical
illness (plus the cocktail of four); appear to have Cushing's, oh, no
Lupus, oh, no Krohn's--did have hypogammaglobulinemia CVID--a primary immune deficiency; could not go out without a mask; was not supposed to go out period. But then I go on. There were far more illnesses than those
mentioned.

6) Daughter takes Prozac as a "prophylactic, in case you have bad
hormone changes," says her gynecologist.

7) Daughter has premie; he's neurologically challenged; speech impaired
and in horrendous, nightmarish withdrawal--description, if you ask....

8) Daughter gave up smoking, no liquor, took all the vitamins. Birth
and home-with-new-baby is a trauma. Why? Prozac withdrawal. The doctor
knew she was going to breastfeed.

     She bravely rides it, but starts losing herself. Has no idea this
is all about Prozac; doesn't want to even hear it, when I suggest,
"Maybe...."

     Daughter starts to become unrecognizable as a person, so full of
rage-filled disappointment and rage-filled torture to hear her precious
child SCREAMING. He didn't cry; he screamed all the time, like a
street drug baby.

9) At this time, I am still very, very sick. Have been given two death
dates, by two different doctors; "I think it's time to put your things
in order. You probably have about 3 to 6 (the other 6-12) more months."

10) I have to look into the SSRI connection; there has to be one.

11) I read Tracy, Healy, Glenmullen, Breggin, Oaks and Gadsby, Caplan,
and on. (Staying in bed, moving inches to the computer and keeping the bed
pan and toss bucket always at the ready, I can do this.)

12) I go off Paxil. Cold turkey. A withdrawal of 11 days in which I
lost 14 pounds; major description of that ride!

     Call doctor. He screams, "Paxil is the most addictive drug.
You're going to die like this. How could you do something so stupid?" Uh....

13) I go back on, and then taper myself off completely. In three weeks
after the last taper, I throw nine medicines for physical illness into
the toilet! I have clarity. I can walk without bumping into everything,
falling down, fainting; I can write by hand without having to stop, because of
the shakes. I can hold a cup of soup. I can put away the bed pan and the
vomit bucket and the bandages I had to change daily. A 3-and-1/2-year daily
fever is gone.

     I remember ME. I HAVE NO PHYSICAL ILLNESSES. NOT ONE. AND I CAN
THINK!

    (I reead* and find that the "occult cancer umbrella" for which they
were looking was the Paxil.

     Every, every disease, symptom, physical problem I had could be
found under the side-effect list. And we are talking weird stuff! How about
skin bleeding spontaneously--no bump, no scratch, just reading a book and
feeling warm, thick liquid dripping down my arm....?

14) The Re-challenge: A few weeks ago, a doctor tells me that she wants
me
to take Lexapro, because I'm anxious--I've never been "depressed," in
my
life. I do get very anxious. I argue that it will make me sick. "No,
it's
very effective," blah de blah--actually promises it has no serotinergic
qualities.

     I take ONE PILL! ONE PILL and all my symptoms were back! ALL!
And
I'm still suffering mild symptoms, I believe.

     It's as Dr. Tracy said, "It stays in your body for half as many
years
as you used it." There was the proof. It took years to get that sick,
and
ONE PILL, one year and 7 months after quitting, brought every illness
back.

15) During my studies, I meet Cassie, Vince, my "cause" people and
spend from 4-16 hours a day doing research and trying to stop PhRma.

     I try to stop California Prop 63; I speak before the CA
legislature.
'Run grassroots campaign: flyers, campus booths, standing groups in
front of
supermarkets; hold informationals at my place....

     I work with a "schizophrenic" to help him get off drugs.

15) My daughter has gone from Prozac to Effexor. She is
unrecognizable.

     She is physically violent, verbally abusive and ferociously quick
to rage out. This was not she before Effexor.

     I fear for her staying on this planet. I fear for Henry....
Although she asked me to move here to be near her, we no longer have contact.

     There's more, but I can't think of it all right now. As I did
say, please be specific in helping me to help you.

Take care.
Susan

Here's what happens when a child is forced to take drugs from a very young age, the story shared by a mother, posted to a web site recently ...

Please, do not post replies to this post.

Thank you.

This is an ADHD forum.

Please make post that are appropriate to the forums intention.

Paxil, Prozac and Lexapro are not ADHD meds.

Thank you for your cooperation.

Yeah, I know, I replied <kicks self in head>Ahhhh, there you are, peter!

Why don't you ask me yourself?

Afraid to reveal your true colors?

[QUOTE=reality]

Dear sdw227,

If we're supposed to post in the "appropriate forums, why don't you ask Davidornado why he posted this in the "FDA Warns About Strattera" spot ??.....

Study: Vaccine blocks cervical cancer '100 percent efficacy' against cancer-causing virus, maker says

Thursday, October 6, 2005; Posted: 8:04 a.m. EDT (12:04 GMT)

[/QUOTE]

DO NOT POST TO KNOWN TROLLS, Give it up bren, these people ARE seizures on the board.Not all seizures will show up on a EEG. The deeper in the Brain the less it will show up. Wife read this in a book.

[QUOTE=pastmember/Bren]Not all seizures will show up on a EEG. The deeper in the Brain the less it will show up. Wife read this in a book. [/QUOTE]

Thats true bren, they miss quite a lot of seizures on EEG (and vice versa)

"http://my.webmd.com/hw/epilepsy/aa22249.asp

"...An electroencephalogram (EEG) is not a foolproof test of whether epilepsy is present. Some people with abnormal EEG results do not have epilepsy, and some people who have epilepsy will have normal EEG results, despite repeated tests..."

Hey, I have a idea . building on the letters E and X from exorcism... I make a new work for the anti adhd and morons who can't read this site and it's purpose..

E-X-I-T

EXIT , GET IT.. NOW USE IT. and spare us the soap opera story.

PS ALL OUR IP'S are LOGGED,.,,,, DUH
[QUOTE=sdw227]

Please, do not post replies to this post.

Thank you.

[/QUOTE]

Please, do not post replies to this post. Thank you.

hey -- wait a minute ...

hey , respond to ME,,,,, dont make a soap opera and try to change my post,,, or am I more intelligent than you expected?????

POW straight between the eyes, oh my oh, how nature loves her little suprises.... joe walsh,,,,,

I don't understand what that has to do with this thread. Someone who post something that is not appropriate in another topic does not make spam here right. So sorry for you. I am here for a reason other than pushing an agenda. Bore someone else with your babble.

Thank you for your cooperation.

Dear sdw227,

If we're supposed to post in the "appropriate forums, why don't you ask Davidornado why he posted this in the "FDA Warns About Strattera" spot ??.....

Study: Vaccine blocks cervical cancer '100 percent efficacy' against cancer-causing virus, maker says

Thursday, October 6, 2005; Posted: 8:04 a.m. EDT (12:04 GMT)

Ever try an exorcism?Listen, you dumb f**k. Read the above post before you spam us with your nonsence. Post in the appropriate forums. And as I said before, THANK YOU.funny you two post together, I would say your both the same, tell us more lies mr wizard... realityneedsacheck and adhdisboguswhenyouhavesyphillis
bugzappers38648.7452430556[QUOTE=sdw227]

LadyPeace, try posting your topic under a new thread. Perhaps those with the real experience you seek will see it and share what they know.

[/QUOTE]

SDW, are you not satisfied with the level of experience that the Food and Drug Administration has with addictive drugs such as Dexamphetamine? Maybe you can suggest a more authoritative source? I know that the APA has much to gain from selling these drugs and the associated services, of course without regard to the health and safety of the children they victimize, would they be a better source of information?

LadyPeace, try posting your topic under a new thread. Perhaps those with the real experience you seek will see it and share what they know.

Based on casual observations or indications rather than rigorous or scientific analysis:

Glen,

When 106,000 Americans die every year from taking a prescription drug.... that's just a "casual observation" isn't it?

After all, the rigorous and scientific analysis was done BEFORE the FDA approved the drug.... right ?

So, what do you call Eli Lilly's adjustment of Prozac clinical trials reports regarding the increased suicide attempts among the patients ? (1986 in Germany)

Or Merck withholding clinical trial data that clearly showed there was an increased risk of heart attacks with Viiox ?

ALL OF THE PHARMACEUTICAL COMPANIES ARE GUILTY OF DOING THINGS LIKE THAT.

So, are you saying that hiding negative data and only including positive data in the clinical trial reports... that is "rigorous and scientific analysis"?

So I'm new on this board. I tried to get through this thread at first but after the first 3 pages found it useless. So i've skimmed. But seriously is there any useful information in any of this? Other than the person with the little boy on dexamphatemine and possible depression?

Does anyone know how long Adderall has been out? or anything similar? I am 23 and started taking adderall XR in december. But I want to know if anyone knows of someone who has been taking adderall for years. And i mean a long time. How is their health now? Still good? No heart problems with the amphetamine based medication? Anyone?

thanks

[QUOTE=ADHDisBOGUS]

Well if this ain't the pot calling the keetle black!!! Ha!!!

It's remarkable, a real mother's story about the process of losing her child after a decade of forced drugging is called "anecdotal" by these people ... but a cult belief that was voted in for profit by a committee (and not discovered), and has no medical or biological evidence supporting it whatsoever, is called science?? Go figure.

[/QUOTE]

I have no idea of what the color of your "keetle" is - that's not important.

Do you even KNOW what anecdotal means?? Let me help you with that one.

an·ec·dot·al (nk-dtl) KEY

ADJECTIVE:

also an·ec·dot·ic (-d

k) KEY or an·ec·dot·i·cal (-

-k

l) KEY Of, characterized by, or full of anecdotes. Based on casual observations or indications rather than rigorous or scientific analysis: "There are anecdotal reports of children poisoned by hot dogs roasted over a fire of the [oleander] stems" (C. Claiborne Ray).

The point I was making is that anectodes are garbage science. They are used to make a point when there is no evidence scientifically gathered to make your point. Typically it's used to make an emotional evocation rather than to support a theory by practical, reasonable means.

I think there are lots of words you should look up. Evidence. Science. You get my drift. ADHD is scientifically backed up. Hypothesis' were made, tests were performed and it was determined through repetition and peer diagnosis that you could determine ADHD in children and adults through a set group of questions and examinations. That's what science is about.

When you start bringing in "I was at a conference and this guy came up to me and told me his story" - you lose any credibility. That's it. Since they have not been examined and tallied scientifically - they have no credence and can't be used to make any legitamate argument.

You can use that kind of anecdotal evidence to try and prove ghosts, bigfoot and all sorts of nonsense. Until you can get them into the lab, ask the right questions and be able to substantiate any and all claims - forget using them. Paper tigers.

Loss of a loved one is tragic. Trying to use it to sell your case - disgraceful. Trying to sell me that you are serious and not trying to instill fear and your brand of ignorance of science - useless.

I did not say add or adhd doesn't exist that seizures can be mistaken for lack of attention. Only a professinal can tell you for sure. We have the right just like anyone here to give a opinion. Sorry you dislike it. I will not go away just cause you dislike my posts. [QUOTE=GlenW]

I have no idea of what the color of your "keetle" is - that's not important.

Do you even KNOW what anecdotal means?? Let me help you with that one.

I believe my message was clear about the anecdotal nature of the so-called evidence (lack thereof) of ADHD. Yes, I know what anecdotal means, this is why I used the word. Per your definition posted below, this is exactly what ADHD is -- an accusation based on purely subjective anecdotal conclusions. As you have kindly explained below, and as anyone who reads the DSM or looks at the ADHD "tests" can plainly see, ADHD is defined as and is tested as an accusation "Based on casual observations or indications rather than rigorous or scientific analysis".

Ever take a look at the Connor's scales, the most commonly used "test" for ADHD? It is not even targeted to the person being accused, it is targeted to and completed by the people around the accused, and is nothing more than a collection of "casual observations or indications" -- a survey of subjective opinions of people around the victim. So here we have a "disorder" that is labelled not by any test on the accused, but by a survey of people around the poor kid. Then we force drugs on the child not to address any particular physical condition or characteristic of the victim, but rather purely for the convenience of those around him or her. Effectiveness of the "treatment" is measured not by any particular change in the child, rather, by a change in the impressions of those around the child. In essence, if after the drugs the child poses less of an inconvenience to me, or if I am a teacher and the child finally stops asking all of those pesky little questions that are so natural in a young and inquisitive mind, then the drug is a success.

As for your somewhat odd focus on spelling, and a typographical error in spelling the word "kettle", I gather that in your mind a typo somehow reduces the credibility of an argument. Thus, based on your spelling of the word anecdotal as "anectodal" below, how shall we interpret your credibility?

an·ec·dot·al (nk-dtl) KEY

ADJECTIVE:

also an·ec·dot·ic (-d

k) KEY or an·ec·dot·i·cal (-

-k

I completely agree, garbage science. And there are volumes of this garbage science out there alleging to support claims of ADHD. They write the volumes, and then they point to the number of pages as proof that ADHD exists. If this is how we measure proof, then we have proven that Christianity is in fact the true word and the Bible is in fact the word of God, because there has been more written about that faith then any other religion. In the garbage science world of psychiatry, words constitute proof, not medical discoveries as in the medical world.

ADHD and science are opposite poles. You are correct, hypotheses were made, tests were performed that had nothing to do with testing anything on the accused victim, only those around him or her (subjective anecdotal questions), and then it was determined through peer analysis that these criteria could be applied to any child or any living being, and thus the peers could make lots of money. The Gods of the psychiatric faith declared "Let there be money"! That's what anecdotal garbage science is all about.

When you start bringing in "I was at a conference and this guy came up to me and told me his story" - you lose any credibility. (Who the heck said that anyway?) That's it. Since they have not been examined and tallied scientifically - they have no credence and can't be used to make any legitamate argument.

You can use that kind of anecdotal evidence to try and prove ghosts, bigfoot, ADHD, and all sorts of nonsense. Until you can get them into the lab, ask the right questions and be able to substantiate any and all claims - forget using them. Paper tigers.

Do I detect an income being threatened here?

[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=deborah the mum]

My replies in red ...

Ive just started my 7 year old on medication and he has shown mood swings on dexamphetamine {Yes, this is a typical reaction to all of the amphetamine derivatives}, when I look up websites on the drug I get a lot of street information. I am concerned about long term effects, Ive been told its short acting drug etc. but is there a risk of building a depedancy {dexamphetamine is a highly addictive drug, like all amphetamines. It is classified as such by the FDA and is controlled through triplicate prescriptions, the tightest control of any drug. This is easily confirmed by reading the Physician's Desk Reference or consulting with the Food and Drug Administration}? How do people go starting them on dex as a survival step & weaning them onto natural solutions (has anyone tried neurofeedback therapy) {You don't. The first thing you do is look at your child's environment. If he or she is in a public school, which is where these accusations against children typically begin, try putting him or her into a private school. Usually the behaviors that lead teachers to want to medicate children are a result of boredom, or an environment that is not fit for the child.}

Sorry I dont have any answers just questions.

[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=GlenW]

My replies in red ...

I know about doing searches on the ADHD meds. You first get a lot on addiction and danger {Yes, that might raise a red flag or two in an objective mind} . The anti-med groups have teeth and get it that way. It's a paid internet - so we live with it.

dexedrine is NON ADDICTIVE - when taken as directed. There is ZERO percent chance at low levels - the chemistry is not like methamphetamines which is addictive at any level.

For those on these boards who have persistently asked why I am here, THIS is the reason. Advice like this is extremely dangerous propaganda designed to convert loving parents into paying customers. Look at his careful wording -- "NON ADDICTIVE - when taken as directed". What does the second half of his statement mean? It means of course that it is highly addictive, but he professes to have some magic formula that makes it not so. This question is easily answered. Look the drug up under the Physician's Desk Reference at your library. You will find it is classified by the FDA under their classification reserved for only the most addicitive drugs, Schedule III. Once you have confirmed this, it will be clear that this person is posting propaganda designed to sell you a service, and you should from that point forward appropriately dismiss anything this person says as related to medical information. Once you have confirmed that the drug is addictive, research further, and you will find that the typical pattern is that ADHD salesman (psychiatrists and some unethical pediatricians) will continuously increase dosages over time, or worse, start prescribing a cocktail of addictive drugs. This is done because the body chemistry adjusts to the drug, reducing it's effectiveness. The body continues to try to offset the effect of the drug as the dosage increases. Finally, there is addiction, and sudden removal of the drug can cause sever reactions because the body chemistry is offsetting a drug that is no longer there. Death can occur in some cases. This what addiction is!

Long term - there are no lasting effects as long as your child has no pre existing heart condition. Please make sure to have your 7 year old examined for that often as it's the prudent thing to do. Within a couple days of stopping taking them - the dexedrine is gone completely - leaving no traces behind (uh huh).

There are alternative things you can do to aid in retraining the ADHD mind - but be aware that the best treatments are in conjunction with medication (the salesman speaking). Dexedrine won't cure ADHD - but will allow your child to regain control of urges, focus and attention. That's what they are for.

[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=GlenW]

yes - dexedrine is the manufacturer's brand name. We interchange things here- don't be surprised if you see us trade them back and forth. (sure, why not?)

depression - not a side effect. In fact it's opposite, usually a false sense of well-being - like euphoria comes with starting up dextroamphetamine. Not always but they warn it can make some take risks because of over confidence.

Yes, it is true that the false sense of euphoria is what leads adults to addiction as well. People like the high. Of course depression is a side affect. The amphetamine stimulant wreaks havoc on the bodies normal chemistry, causing ups and downs.

If he's not getting enough sleep - it would make sense that he might be deprived and that too can look like depression. (You mean a child might begin losing sleep when we give him amphetamine stimulants? Go figure. But let me follow this thinking through to it's natural conclusion --- the stimulant is causing the child to lose sleep, and sleep deprivation is causing the child to appear depressed, but the depression is not a side affect of the stimulant right?) It would look the same - droopy, inactive. You might try waking him a bit earlier and getting the medication to him at an earlier time. this way by bed it's all flushed out and he might get some sleep. Earlier rise time will help that too in that he will be cycling more to a daytime schedule. Will be an adjustment but could help?

with this med - you might want to check into trying a new way to use. try using through weekends (at smaller dose) - then every 2 months have him abstain and have a "drug vacation". One week off - and then back up to regular dose. Some it works much better - others doesn't help at all. It tends to "jump start" the meds to keep it working at smaller doses - but not with everyone.

Yes, build it up, why not sell it seven days a week? Keep it working at smaller doses -- what he is referring to here is the addictive cycle of bodily adjustment that I referred to above.

Good luck with his appointment. Glad you are doing all the right things!

[/QUOTE]

this is a mix of new post & response although Ive found this thread hard to follow.

Ive just started my 7 year old on medication and he has shown mood swings on dexamphetamine, when I look up websites on the drug I get a lot of street information. I am concerned about long term effects, Ive been told its short acting drug etc. but is there a risk of building a depedancy? How do people go starting them on dex as a survival step & weaning them onto natural solutions (has anyone tried neurofeedback therapy)

Sorry I dont have any answers just questions.

hi deborah! sorry the thread has become clogged with pro/anti meds - I can't resist going after them like I do. Mea Culpa.

I know about doing searches on the ADHD meds. You first get a lot on addiction and danger. The anti-med groups have teeth and get it that way. It's a paid internet - so we live with it.

dexedrine is NON ADDICTIVE - when taken as directed. There is ZERO percent chance at low levels - the chemistry is not like methamphetamines which is addictive at any level.

There are alternative things you can do to aid in retraining the ADHD mind - but be aware that the best treatments are in conjunction with medication. Dexedrine won't cure ADHD - but will allow your child to regain control of urges, focus and attention. That's what they are for.

I always try to get this across - make SURE that therapy of some kind is used as well as the dexedrine! Your child needs to learn skills to help fight the urges, to learn in his special way as efficiently as he can. He lacks the basic biological abilities that other children get naturally. He will see anxiety as something to avoid - consciously or not. Training will give him a "heads up" on what to expect - and give tools to struggle and win against the upcoming life experiences.

Neurofeedback is still a new science. If you are near a large city you may find a centre that deals with it. A skilled therapist must use the tools to make it work. It basically is a machine that shows your child the brain waves - and trains him to change them at will. It's a modern bio-feedback, and even with that medication can help him get over the hyperactivity and inability to stay on topic long enough to actually get benefits.

Good luck - and don't let the fear mongers get to you. Like anything there are pros - and cons. It will be up to you and yours to decide when you get all the information.

thank you for the feedback His tablets are called dexamphetamine, dexadrine may be a brand name.

my son has said that he likes the way he feels on the medication, although sometimes he seems a little depressed, I do not know if that is tiredness as he gets used to the drug & his sleep is less, or if it is a side effect, still waiting to see the paediatrician as appointments have been postponed (by her not me) although have had phone calls. Pharmacist does not think depression is a side effect. It may be a comparison to his hypo activity & a wrong conclusion, I will keep monitoring.

It has only been a few weeks so far & is not used on weekends unless hes out of control, used for the school day.

yes - dexedrine is the manufacturer's brand name. We interchange things here- don't be surprised if you see us trade them back and forth.

It's possible that because you are used to his high-charged personality, now that he's more thoughtful, perhaps increasingly single-minded or becomes riveted to what he does that you mistake this for a change towards depression?? His attitude will seem different - he'll be more likely to chose to do things less focused on avoiding stress and more to entertain himself.

If he's not getting enough sleep - it would make sense that he might be deprived and that too can look like depression. It would look the same - droopy, inactive. You might try waking him a bit earlier and getting the medication to him at an earlier time. this way by bed it's all flushed out and he might get some sleep. Earlier rise time will help that too in that he will be cycling more to a daytime schedule. Will be an adjustment but could help?

Good luck with his appointment. Glad you are doing all the right things!

[QUOTE=GlenW]Anecdotal evidence is only good for making people emotional. It does no scientific good and people who depend on it are of diminished mental capacity. .[/QUOTE]

Well if this ain't the pot calling the keetle black!!! Ha!!! We have an ADHD promoter, wanting people to drug their children based on a serious of "observations" and his belief in the DSM religion ... complaining about anecdotal evidence!!

Some of you guys on here seem a little paranoid. I just asked a question. I asked someone to share a personal experience. Now I will ask another question. What is the purpose of this board? To not share experiences? Or is it for drug companies to promote drugs and for the activist who are against drugs to post anti drug company propaganda?

What happens to those of us who originally try to seek out a forum to talk and share with others who EXPERIENCE THE SAME THINGS...ie, ADHD. That is why I am here. Not to push an agenda but to get information from others who are dealing with the same issues I am.

Why do the few have to ruin it for the rest of us.

I'm borrowing a quote from a fellow member and it goes something like this..

Bla, Bla, Bla, Bla & Bla. And I even make as much sense as the above poster.

Curus, I have never met you, but you are clearly very knowledgeable about the marketing tactics of the ADHD promotion crowd. I too have seen exactly the behavior you describe below, where a person shares personal infomation in an attempt to help others and then is viciously assaulted by the ADHD sales team. A quick look at the venom some on these boards have spewed WITHOUT knowing personal information paints a pretty scary picture of what they would do if they did know personal information! And yes, I have seen them throw grieving parents to the wolves in an effort to silence them. the many stories of child deaths are very bad for business.

[QUOTE=curus]

I experienced similar on my own personal story as well, though it couldn't possibly have hurt me as much as it hurt a mother distraught with grief after losing a child who hadn't yet reached teenage.

I have to leave now for the weekend, have a good one yourself.

[/QUOTE] well - that one was kind of like playing "keep away" with a blind guy's hat - so I don't feel all that witty on it. But - it's nice to vent and it remains true. Anecdotal evidence is only good for making people emotional. It does no scientific good and people who depend on it are of diminished mental capacity. Like me with gun and him with toothpick. Not really as rewarding as if he were really well armed in the mental faculties.

you did a good job saying what needed to be said Not all brain waves will show up either,,, curus lost his waves over the ocean . Now he/she is looking hi and low in this site for any signs of them . and kicking us as they fall deeper into the chasm... The more you post, the more you prove your lacking intelligence and proving your insanity... your posts belong in the alternate meds and OTHER catagory. someone please enforce this,.,, bugzappers38645.671087963
YOU DON'T RESPOND TO ANY POSTS.. YOU CUT AND PASTE AND SAY DUHHH...

Well you claim adhd is not real, And I have the symptoms of adhd and I am 35, not some kid getting bad grades and a teacher referall. and you claim to have all the research,,,, so ANSWER ME.. as an adult knowing my body and myself... TELL ME.. WHAT IS IT IF IT IS NOT ADHD????? IF ADHD IS NOT REAL WHAT IS IT , ARE YOU HOLDING OUT ON ME

bugzappers38649.8142939815

[QUOTE=bugzappers]Still awaiting my diagnosis from you dr adhdisbogus..... [/QUOTE]

Bugzappers, in case you havent noticed I don't reply to your posts, maybe you can guess why. Thought I would reply to this one just to say that unlike those in the ADHD business, I do not diagnose people unseen, and certainly would not offer any diagnosis (even if seen) that was not based in reality. So, not sure what you are asking for ... if you feel you need to be diagnosed I suggest you contact one of the DSM priests.

[QUOTE=sdw227]hey, ADHS is BOGUS, perhaps you should suck may ass. That would be the best source for you. You are just an opportunist asshole trying to play on peoples fears. Share with me your qualifications that are above mine...and keep in mind, I'm not some ignorant idoit you wish me to be...[/QUOTE]

sdw, I hope you don't mind if I quote your post unedited and in it's entirety, I think it says a lot about who you are, and could be very important to read for anyone who might be reading your material. Just a few questions ... I am doing this for NO INCOME to try to offset the bogus and dangerous information people in your profession spew forth on uninformed parents. So tell me, who is the opportunist here? Who is profiting from lies, and offering"support" to parents with a profit motive that puts the children of those parents in direct risk of serious health and life consequences? I dare say it is you who are the opportunist. As for qualifications, what exactly are you looking for? Above yours? Have you reached some devine level that puts your claims beyond reproach? Might you care to share what "level" it is that makes you beyond reproach? I am sure you are not an ignorant idiot, you have carefully chosen and fostered a very profitable profession! It's not my fault that it is a dishonest one. I sense the emperor is upset that someone said he has no clothes ...

I sense a threat to an income ....

Still awaiting my diagnosis from you dr adhdisbogus.....