New to the medication idea | ADHD Information
Dear Jillette,
Almost all of the ADHD "meds" carry a warning about "dependency". That's the drug company/FDA term for ADDICTION.
Adderrall was banned in Canada for causing the deaths of some children. It is apparently back on the market there, with much stronger warnings.
Strattera is linked to causing diabetes in children. Now it is also linked to liver failure when taken by people who drink alcohol.
The DEA did a report on Ritalin about 10 years ago claiming that it had similar effects on the brain as did Cocaine.
Concerta is basically "extended release" Ritalin.
I take Strattera. SO far I still have my liver. No side effects...I'm one of the lucky ones.
Yes, if you do not take the drugs DIRECTLY as prescribed on the bottle it could lead to dependency. I took Concerta a few years back. I did not notice any addictive qualities. I did not take it on weekends...only during the work week.
I know kids deal ritalin in school which, of course <dur> could lead to big problems. Of course they also deal caffeine pills, cigarettes, pot, booze, etc etc. It is important to be an on hands parent and interact with your child. If you just hand your kid a handful of pills when you wake up and yell at him to go to bed when it is dark perhaps prescibing ANY drug would be a bad idea.
[QUOTE=reality]Dear Jillette,
Almost all of the ADHD "meds" carry a warning about "dependency". That's the drug company/FDA term for ADDICTION.
Alchohol is far more worrysome for "dependency" - but children's cough medicine has it many times (as well as other potentially dependence-forming things like dextro-methorphan), yet if you don't let your child drink it in excess - you are fine! same with these meds - moderation is the key.
Adderrall was banned in Canada for causing the deaths of some children. It is apparently back on the market there, with much stronger warnings.
It was suspended from production - not banned. You could possess it - just not allowed to be made here until they investigated it. There were 40 deaths WORLDWIDE - of which almost all were suffering from heart defects already - and many of the patients were exerting themselves with extreme exercise which made the combo lethal. If your child is possessing a strong heart with no defect - there is zero risk of this problem. ZERO.
Strattera is linked to causing diabetes in children. Now it is also linked to liver failure when taken by people who drink alcohol.
In other words - if your child is an alcoholic - don't give them Strattera. The diabetes link is unproven - and remains so today.
The DEA did a report on Ritalin about 10 years ago claiming that it had similar effects on the brain as did Cocaine.
So does your dentists' Novocaine. So does your doctors benzocaine. Cocaine and most of the stimulants affect the same area of the brain. This is typical anti-med rhetoric which means nothing. It's like saying "the water in rain is the same as in hurricanes. Rain can kill you!"
Concerta is basically "extended release" Ritalin.
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The red comments are mine. This person is going to get ejected from this forum for the second time for producing lies and half-truths. We are working on it now. Ignore all postings from him. They don't help you at all.
Jillette - ok sorry you have to go through this pro/anti med propaganda. It's an ongoing thing we are trying hard to get rid of.
You need solid information so you can confidently make a decision. And you are very right - it isn't an easy decision and shouldn't be. But it should be one made on facts not on fear.
The talk in the office about the brain growth - sounds more like they might have been talking about autism. There are brain scans of children with and without autism(various kinds) - and the autistic brain is larger in the skull than a normal childs. They don't know if this is an effect or the cause - more research is needed. As for ADHD and brain size - last info I have says not.
First on medication - the only time to medicate is if your child is having SO much trouble with school (concentration, not able to control self when asked to often, poor social and group skills, poor memory, extremely disruptive behavior) or home or both. If you feel there are ways to work around the ADHD - please do so! There are wonderful ADHD experienced therapists (psychologists and psychiatrists), and perhaps that could be an avenue.
There are three main classes of ADHD meds - and others on the fringes that are being field tested right now. I'd stick with what's known to work - after you know the pros and cons.
Ritalin and the other Methylphenidates - they are built towards children with Hyper variation of ADHD. It tends to slow down their actions, make them able to focus on instructions and non-interesting chores. It will allow them to control the urge to misbehave and run around when asked not to. If your child is not hyper ADHD - or not ADHD at all the Ritalin and group will make him very slow moving - what many call "zombie-like". This should not be the way your child is after getting used to Ritalin. It doesn't take long to adjust so you will have to watch.
Adderall, and the other dextroamphetamine derivatives - stimulants - they tend to be more for the inattentive ADHD (non-hyper) class. The child who can watch TV for hours but can't remember what the teacher said 10 seconds ago is more likely inattentive ADHD than hyper. If they are more introverted and quiet - but show the other symptoms - then adderall or one of the other ones may be best.
Strattera is a new class - affecting the brain's norepinephrine (read adrenaline) - and works better on some with ADHD than the other classes. It seems to work best with extreme hyper ADHD - with less side effects for some. Others though report many side effects - so it must be checked on often at first. Good thing - no chance of dependence (slim even for the ones that are), can be taken if a child has a heart condition (the others must not normally).
There are also antidepressants - but they are still not sure how they could be helping - or why. But some can tolerate and find them better than the others.
Hope this might help. Don't let fear keep you from making a good decision - based on the facts.
Glen,
Out of curiosity, where did you get that information about methylphenidate-based stimulants being mostly for inattentive ADHD? My 12-year-old son has largely inattentive ADHD (never a behavior problem in school) and has been on methyl-based stims for 2.5 years (now on Focalin XR and doing well). He trialed Adderall XR last spring and got terrible facial tics so we discontinued.
SmallMom38652.4541203704
Actually Smallmom- Methylphenidate seems to work best on Hyperactive ADHD - not inattentive. I get it from this group of people - the hyper ones seem to improve with ritalin and get overly agitated with dexedrine. Also - I have seen tests run on various manufacturer's sites that indicate that Ritalin is best for children (they group them all sadly) - because the children show more incidence of hyperactivity than adults.
I can understand dropping adderall when tics occur. If you see ritalin based meds aren't doing it - you can always get the MD to try a short acting dextro a year from the last tic - many times tics are transient and a second try will be better. They don't cause them thankfully - but will aggravate some people's tics in some cases. There's also trying dexedrine instead - it's a different mix than adderall and may be better.
Ritalin SEEMS to be best in most kids - probably because most kids manifest hyperactive ADHD rather than inattentive. Each case is unique.
http://www.webwire.com/ViewPressRel.asp?aId=5058
"Ritalin – The Cover-Up Of Suicides
Janne Larsson
10/27/2005 12:48:46 PM
Treatment with Ritalin has caused suicides and suicide attempts in children...
...From the depths of the archives at the Swedish Medical Products Agency (MPA) some astonishing papers have emerged. Papers showing that Ritalin, prescribed to children with the diagnosis ADHD, causes depression and has led to suicides and suicide attempts.
The MPA knew about these disastrous effects when approving Ritalin for sales in Sweden June 15 this year. No warnings were given to physicians or the public.
FDA announced June 28 that Ritalin and other methylphenidate drugs had been linked to “visual hallucinations, suicidal ideation, psychotic behavior, as well as aggression or violent behaviour”. Nothing was said about suicides or suicide attempts...
...This medical scandal also involves the FDA. The agency can be expected to have known about the deadly effects of Ritalin – but did not act. What is buried in the files of the FDA? ..."
curus38652.4799421296[QUOTE=curus]
http://www.webwire.com/ViewPressRel.asp?aId=5058
"Ritalin – The Cover-Up Of Suicides
Janne Larsson
10/27/2005 12:48:46 PM
Treatment with Ritalin has caused suicides and suicide attempts in children...
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Janne Larsson is an anti med activist. He has been quoted on many anti med sites - but not a journalist unless you count commenting in medication forums and anti-med sites or his own blog.
This study was small, and still inconclusive. As I've said before - the smaller the sample group the less reliable the data.
Janne Larsson is no journalist, no expert - just regurgitating what you want him to for us to be ignoring now.
[QUOTE=Fallen]After a little programming you turned out great! :)
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Programming?
This is getting really pathetic.
Curus, while I appreciate a good zealot every now but you may want to remove those blinders once in a while and take a closer look at your propoganda source, this article has no legitimacy whatsoever and does not pass the sniff test with even a cursory unbiased reading.
Basically it's crap. I have no issue being against medication whatsoever, and I dont believe that you're as stupid as one could infer from the quality of your posts, but trying to prove your point with bullsh*t continually simply exposes you as having ulterior motives.
Are you a scientologist? If you are - why not say so? I can point you to several threads on other forums where Christians who dont belive in medications will step proudly forward and admit that it sbecause of their beliefs that they do not accept medication. Do you lack the testicular fortitude for that?
If you're not a scientologist, what is your story for where you stand? Please, nothing cut and pasted from the lunatic fringe sites, the truth would be nice.
[QUOTE=i_am_pauls_mom]Let's all just remember here that this is "just a PUBLIC board" where anyone can post. I'm not a Dr. and I feel certain that the one's that have posted here aren't either. This board is meant to help people. It is what it is. Talk to your DR. if you have questions regarding medications for your child; do NOT rely on people here to advise you. Now you all have a wonderful day! [/QUOTE]
After a little programming you turned out great! :)
What I suspect curus - is that the deaths by suicide are going to be like the ones with heart attacks - found to be preexisting problems that were misdiagnosed by their doctors - or the patients abused their meds and overdosed (which would cause psychosis and other episodes). You cannot blame a med manufacturer for user abuse. Almost 100 percent of the heart related deaths the MD didn't do a prelim for heart troubles - and many of the deaths were under heavy strain of exercise, and overmedicating by the patient. Again - both heavy exercise combined with heart troubles and stims, and overmedication cannot be attributed to the medication - no matter what you try to say!
and again - paxil is an SSRI - we are ADHD - stop that now.
Glen,
I'm surprised you would make a generalizion based on anecdotal evidence from parents of ADHD kids (and furthermore, you really don't KNOW their symtpoms when they post). In addition, drug manufacturers make lots of claims to sell meds (look at all the commercials on TV). I would want to see evidence from clinical trials run by researchers. Why would our docs (who are very well-educated and deal with 100s of ADHD kids) put my son on Concerta 1st when he has largely inattentive ADHD? I don't think you can make the claim that methyl-based stims works best with hyperactive kids. In fact, one doc we met with said she uses Concerta with really inattentive kids because it was like putting blinders on a horse.
Paxil is an SSRI, and IS often given to ADHD children.
Yes, I expect the children being treated on Ritalin who have died are as anecdotal as any other child on the internet - including all those on this site.
The UK Drugs Regulatory Body did give a warning about Ritalin and suicidal behaviour.
"Dr June Raine of the MHRA said: "We are advising healthcare professionals that patients should be carefully monitored for signs of depression, suicidal thoughts or suicidal behaviour and referred for alternative treatment if necessary..."
But so long as you're happy that its safe - thats OK, for you at least.
Smallmom - I spent a lot of time talking to these people - and I do mention when I say what I do when it's from a study - or from people here.
Methylphenidate is very often given for hyperactivity because it works so well on slowing their systems down and giving them better time to respond and react better to urges and stimuli. Is that why they give it to every child with ADHD? No - every case is unique.
The fact that the one doc uses it like "blinders on a horse" tells me that the doc was using it to slow responses and generate a tighter focus for those children.
There are times to generalize and times not to. To say that generally Ritalin and family work well with hyperactivity is one of them. It's not saying it DOESN'T work with inattentives - often it does. Only that it works especially well with hyperactivity.
My opinions here are that - opinions. As with everything here - it needs to be reinforced with a doctor or a psychiatrist's diagnosis. To use just my point of view from gathering data from here and from medical information available would be unwise alone. That's a given.
Thats all right then!
Why should anyone worry as to what documents have emerged - its only a few children's lives.
The whole picture will come out in the same way as the Paxil cover-ups did in its own time, which I expect won't be too long now.
Let's all just remember here that this is "just a PUBLIC board" where anyone can post. I'm not a Dr. and I feel certain that the one's that have posted here aren't either. This board is meant to help people. It is what it is. Talk to your DR. if you have questions regarding medications for your child; do NOT rely on people here to advise you. Now you all have a wonderful day!
[QUOTE=Fallen]It's a tough decision, how old is your daughter? How does she feel about it? As a parent how much do you think her life be disrupted by the ADD?
Little things like bad grades can be fixed by introducing alternative learning methods, and really shouldnt be an issue til she's older anyway. Are there education alternatives available to you? (homeschooling, montessori, experiential learning systems).
What did you and your doctor discuss regarding your own concerns? Are they based around the health of your daughter, your own fears regarding psychiatric medication and the possible stigma attached, something else?
You'll hear a great deal about the old stalwart meds ritalin and amphetamines because they've been tested for decades and are predictable and (regardless of the shrill alarmist FUD) likely the safest.
Opinions here are helpful, but eventually the disparate voices are going to create as much external confusion as what you're currently going through. You might find writing down a list of all your concerns and going over them with your current doc (and possibly getting a second opinion on those areas you are most concerned with) is a constructive step forward.
Most of all: talk to experts about the good and bad of medications, dont use the internet pressure sites, use legitimate medical sites. If you dont know them start at about.com, as their listings are maintained by real people and they'll weed out the BS - there's too much crap, and too many people that will prey on your fear of medication to play you into their own prejudices.
Just from what you've posted it's obvious that you care very deeply for your daughter, based on that I'd say that you can take a deep breath and realize that even though the task is daunting right now you're approaching the issue from the correct place: how can you help your daughter the best, in the present and for the future.
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My daughter Annette is below average in grades now and has to have someone sit with her to get her to get her work completed and is more hyper than inattentive. As for friends she really does not have any maybe one but no play dates. I can see when she is with me that she is struggling and it hurts. I was told she is moderate with ADHD and strong willed and a candidate for meds. I think I am going to go with trying the meds for I love her and want to help her so it is worth a try. Our psychologist said in one year we will take her off for a short time to see if they are still needed so we will see.
The Scums coming to our boards do not help and they obviously have no clue what hard decisions we as parents and adults have to make. There are risks in anything we do. My choices are should I try to help my child or let her fail because she is too hyper and is struggling, I choose to do what I have to for her and to give it a try. The Key to getting rid of parasites is to ignore them and do not comment for when you do they continue and love getting people angered.
My daughter is 6 years old or will be in 2 weeks.
Jillette38652.6640740741I forgot to thank everyone for their support.
At my daughters psychologist appointment he re-reviewed her testing and concluded she is a candidate for medications, his recommendations. I am devastated although I knew this day was coming. I am nervouse about meds especially with all the FDA stuff what is safe out there?
The psychologist did tell me about some study he read where kids with ADHD had smaller brains due to the transmissions problem and the study was of kids on meds and off. The conclusion was the kids on meds their brains grew and the off meds either shrunk or stayed the same. mmmm. She see's her pediatrition in a week and a half to discuss which one. I only want to help her she is not doing well in school at all and has no friends.
I know my post is everywhere like I said i am a confused nervous person. I know I have read the wonderful things meds have done for their kids and that has helped me feel better but why is this so hard? Any meds that are the best let me know. confused one
Little things like bad grades can be fixed by introducing alternative learning methods, and really shouldnt be an issue til she's older anyway. Are there education alternatives available to you? (homeschooling, montessori, experiential learning systems).
What did you and your doctor discuss regarding your own concerns? Are they based around the health of your daughter, your own fears regarding psychiatric medication and the possible stigma attached, something else?
You'll hear a great deal about the old stalwart meds ritalin and amphetamines because they've been tested for decades and are predictable and (regardless of the shrill alarmist FUD) likely the safest.
Opinions here are helpful, but eventually the disparate voices are going to create as much external confusion as what you're currently going through. You might find writing down a list of all your concerns and going over them with your current doc (and possibly getting a second opinion on those areas you are most concerned with) is a constructive step forward.
Most of all: talk to experts about the good and bad of medications, dont use the internet pressure sites, use legitimate medical sites. If you dont know them start at about.com, as their listings are maintained by real people and they'll weed out the BS - there's too much crap, and too many people that will prey on your fear of medication to play you into their own prejudices.
Just from what you've posted it's obvious that you care very deeply for your daughter, based on that I'd say that you can take a deep breath and realize that even though the task is daunting right now you're approaching the issue from the correct place: how can you help your daughter the best, in the present and for the future.
Jill:
I 'know' this news is not what you wanted to hear but knew that 'one day' it was going to come. (same situation here almost). Just know that you are a loving mother and only want what's best for your child. I know alot of the things that you've already done to try and 'not' medicate; but if there is no other alternative then I think it's best you follow your gut and the Dr. My thoughts and prayers are certainly with you at this time. The decision is heartbreakingly hard...for you. For her? It might be just what she needs. My only advice to you is to do what 'you' think is best for your child...you always have. As for what kinds? I haven't a 'clue'...I wish I did. It is true you can go to website to website and find the good, the bad and the ugly...but there are also people right here that can testify that it literally changed their lives for the better. I think that the Dr. will know what to start with; I think you just have to put your trust in the Dr.'s at this point.