To all my criminal buddies... | ADHD Information

Creative in crime, I guess! It also indicates that ADHD makes us more prone to violence. Haven't they read DSM in the last 15 years? It sounds like they don't differeniate between ADHD and antisocial personality disorder or severe bi-polar. Read some of the article... BOY IT"S LONG! Anyway, I don't understand how someone could sit and spend 15 pages telling all the world how stupid people are who have ADD. Talk about unproductive time...Funny, I JUST finished reading that article. I agree, way too long and really concentrates on what I consider the wrong aspects, while burhsing over what would be more interesting ones. It's nice to hear what others thougthaboutit.

This is apparently how certain advocacy groups view attention deficit disorder. This website is provided by "The Coordinated Campaign for Learning Disabilities", a non-profit organization supposedly set up to raise awareness about learning disabilities and ADHD and this is one of the studies on their site.

http://www.ldonline.org/ld_indepth/add_adhd/ael_behavior.htm l

This was a study done by the Appalachia Educational Laboratory. According to this study, 40% of all adult prisoners may have ADHD. It also goes on to say 20 50 to 70% (huh, which one???) develop oppositional defiant disorder. I think someone didn't do their homework unless many of us are posting messages from a jail cell or are in between incarcerations.

The website that posted this study also makes many disheartening, negative implications about our disorder, like their link of the NY Times article "Office Messes: Adults with ADHD in the Workplace." I don't know about anyone else but when I read "office messes" I don't just think of a disorganized desk or papers that are unfiled.

It is very disappointing to me that there are people out there who stigmatize this disorder in such a way. It makes me afraid to tell people I have ADHD for fear of being perceived as a dishonest, delinquent individual. The fact that they claim they are raising awareness about ADHD is even more frightening.

cheekydeeky38188.7375578704Hmm. I have always read that people with ADHD are often highly intelligent and creative people. I guess the people doing the study haven't read the same things I have.I appreciate the helpful feedback,As far as doing things and getting caught,Always.I would like to know if symptoms of ADHD include Lack of conscience or remorse.I searched out 4 asight to inform and educate myself on this topic,reading the dicussed topics is very helpful.No ADHD people do have remorse - if they don't it is not ADHD.

[QUOTE=RunningOnEmpty]As the Parent of a ADHD son,I have experienced a young man (19) fall through the cracks,The education system diagnosed him and did NOTHING 4 him,sent him to Vocational school but didn't offer any trades,I had a hand full of Minor involvements with the law during his midteens,He has had a few jobs,but has lost them. On the surface you see no problem,so people think he is just lazy and not ambitious.He has never been on any Meds,But maybe I should look into this,I fear for his Future. [/QUOTE]

My Goodness - Yes try anything - definately medication - if at his age you can convince him. - Good Luck - ask for any advice and any of us would be happy to help.

runningonempty,

I have heard of so many heart breaking stories like your son's. Do whatever you can to get him the help he needs. Try Literacy Volunteers if he has trouble reading and encourage him to go for his GED. I realize he has probably given up on himself but encourage him if you can.

His school clearly broke the law by not educating him. Turn them in to your state Dept of Education. It may help prevent someone else having to go through that heart break.

Barb

Hold it right there. Lack of remorse is definitely NOT a symptom of ADHD. That is a symptom of Antisocial Personality Disorder, a psychological profile that makes you more likely to commit crime. Also, a lack of empathy. These are not ADHD symptoms.

Wow,All your responces are terrific,I feel I may have a mis-diagnoised Son,but I do know his attention span is short,he was a magnet to kids that we would not want our kids hanging with,(The good kids where to boring).Always on the go(but never finishes what he starts).Outstanding in sports(MVP 6yrs in a row),Can't stay long anywhere(Has to move).A daredevil, Lies, Steals, but I feel has very low selfesteem,Lots of Friends but doesn't hangout with anyone more than another(no Best Friend).His mother Left when he was 1,sometimes I wonder about the Bonding issues,Knowing how very important a Mother-Child is,Maybe a new challenge ADNB (attention Def.No Bond) Thanks PeterI must add,I feel he is sensative,Knows wrong from right.I am sure AD is there but so is something else.Confussing!!

i would agree completely with cheekydeeky,

i've never ever read anywhere how 'lack of remorse' or empathy is a symptom of adhd.

the only thing at all that would be related in a way is that some adhders have a hard time reading other ppl. b/c of our lack of attention we may lose out on a lot of critical learning of others' emotional physical messages..for instance facial expressions which express an unlimited amount of information btwn two ppl.

from what i've read we tend to be sensitive..i'm not saying sensitive in the sense that we are sooo sensitive that we can always know how other ppl are feeling but rather that we wear our hearts on our sleeves typically and we are emotional.

i don't think that ppl that are necessarily highly emotional can have the other issue of lacking empathy or lacking remorse (perhaps if you're a NARCISSIST which is worse than adhd i think)

anyway definitely the realm of something else completely this lack of remorse business.

i've also ready that we may feel intense guilt. i for one feel guilty all the time and i'm also so empathy laden that i cry at movies, the news, articles and other ppls' stories including posts that i've read!

if anything i'm so FULL of remorse its ridiculous..i've got more than my fair share!!!

anyone want to share some of my guilt and remorse? LOL

sumi

The first thing I notice is that they say these prisoners "MAY" have ADHD.

They also "MAY" have a variety of other problems. For anyone who has worked with surveys, studies, and statistics, these things can be very misleading.

I also think that the term "criminals" is very misleading. I believe there may well be a disproportionate number of prisoners who are adult ADD. Why? Because many of the same "EXPERTS" who do this type of research used to believe that everyone outgrew ADD and adults did not have it. So adults never were diagnosed. So many adults ended up self-medication, often with alchohol or illegal drugs. And as you may know, during the 80s and 90s a huge emphasis was put on locking up drug abusers. So some poor guy being torn apart by ADD and not knowing it starts self-medicating and ends up an addict. At somepoint the guy gets busted and thrown into the joint with the real criminals.

I wonder what the sample size of prisoners was? I wonder also if these prisoners had a complete evaluation and diagnoses by a qualified Psychiatrist? I doubt it.

Would you say they do not forsee the out come of there actions.some barb38193.8353819444

I tend to lean towards the fact there there are probably many criminals that are ADHD. I don't believe that the percentage is much higher than in the general population though. I find it impossible to believe that 70% are ADHD. There is another recent article about ADHD in the New York Times Magazine called "Office Messes" (great title don't you think, really positive reinforcement fot the ADHD community) that is about adult ADHD. It also takes worst cases and displays them as if all ADHD sufferers are like the few they profile.

Rae70, I was all for outing ADHD but if this is the way it is being portrayed I think the media is doing a great diservice to all of us because as we all well know incorrect medai coverage of any topic is hard to correct. Do you all want your friends, Co-workers and family and lets mention possible employers to view you like these articles portray us. Yes I too have piles of paper everywhere both in my office and at home. But, I can find anything you want because the piles make sense to me. Now I do admit that someone else might have a hard time finding something. But, does that make me a potential criminal. NO! Also, not all ADHD people are the impulsive type so how does that factor in?

NightStar, You may already know this (I am just repeating something I have read many times but have no personal experience with). ADHD drugs can make Bi-polar symptoms worse. You might want to drop the Adderall for a few days and only use the Risperdal to see if you bad symptoms go away. No one has said this but my daughters doctor eluded to it (she is only 4) but she might be bi-polar we haven't been able to nail down a diagnosis for her other than Sensory Integration dysfunction. We started with the thought that it might be ADHD because of her brother. She was only on Adderall for less than a week because it made her violent. I hope you can get this all worked out.

-Gettingagrip-

gettingagrip38194.3262847222

i'm not going to ever try to say that yes adhders = criminal behavior.

but if impulsivity is one of the hot issues of being adhd it lends that you might be susceptible to an increased chance of being criminal.

is it really so hard to believe that a child that is misunderstood his whole life and doesn't feel like they fit in, may have particularly horrible adhd, may be in circumstances that either prevent his support from understanding the implications and perhaps that he might grow to be a frustrated impulsive acting adult? sheer frustration would be just the tip of the iceberg..i'm not at all saying that this is the natural and inevitable turn of events i'm just thinking that we might have vulnerabilities that may lead us to criminality.

please don't all hate me for saying this. i'm not agreeing that we are 'born criminals'

but rather since society has little patience for us and our society views us as malajusted for various reasons it just goes w/out saying almost that we might be viewed as every negative stereotype out there..doesn't it?

especially for the 'normal' folks. they just simply cannot fathom the inability to get off the couch and do something you know to the bottom of your heart would be the best for you and your life. ..or to remember the simplest things.

its so damned frustrating.

i hope i did not offend anyone here. i just think it is feasible.

please don't be mad!

sincerely,

sumi

OK I THINK, AND TELL ME IF I'M INCORRECT HERE

THAT I SEE A MAJOR FALLACY IN THIS REPORT.

.Wexler estimates that up to 70 percent of juvenile offenders and 40 percent of adult prisoners may have ADHD7--a significant percentage, considering that only three to seven percent of the general population have ADHD

NOW..HAVEN'T I STUMBLED UPON, TIME AFTER TIME THAT DOCTORS LOVE TO TALK ABOUT HOW CIRCUMSTANCES SUCH AS ABUSE ETC IN A CHILDS EARLY LIFE OR BASICALLY IN YOUR LIFE AND DEPPRESSION CAN MIMIC SYMPTOMS OF ADHD.

SO ESSENTIALLY THEY COULD BE VIEWING THIS JUVENILE AND ADULT CRIMINAL POPULATION ABSOLUTELY INCORRECTLY AND BACKASSWARDS. UNLESS THEY'VE GIVEN ANY SUBSTANTIAL EVIDENCE THAT THESE HUGE WHOPPING NUMBERS OF PRISONERS HAVE SHOWN THE SAME CONSTELLATIONS OF SYMPTOMS THAT GRANT US THE DIAGNOSIS OF ADHD WITH THE ADDED CRITERION OF 'BEFORE AGE OF 7' I WILL NEVER BE CONVINCED THAT THIS PERCENTAGE IS CORRECT. THEY THEMSELVES LIST A NUMBER OF FACTORS THAT CAN BE ATTRIBUTED TO NOT ONLY A OTHER PSYCHOLOGICAL ISSUES BUT TO ENVIRONMENT...

AM I THINKING CORRECTLY HERE?

SUMI

[quote=cheekydeeky]The website that posted this study also makes many disheartening, negative implications about our disorder, like their link of the NY Times article "Office Messes: Adults with ADHD in the Workplace." I don't know about anyone else but when I read "office messes" I don't just think of a disorganized desk or papers that are unfiled.[/quote]

Now that does describe me, actually - I do have several piles of paper stacks over several desks and even the floor... and not filed as they are suppose to be.

[QUOTE=cheekydeeky] Creative in crime, I guess! It also indicates that ADHD makes us more prone to violence. Haven't they read DSM in the last 15 years? It sounds like they don't differeniate between ADHD and antisocial personality disorder or severe bi-polar. [/QUOTE]

I was diagnosed as Bi-Polar, but I am not of a "personality disorder", just have trouble with major "racing thoughts", distraction, and terrible memory problems.

But I have been fighting for a new diagnosis for ADHD, and just started two new meds, doc is messing with me, on for ADD (Ritilan) and one for Bi-polar (Risperdal). And you know what the last week has been a night mare, it just accomplished off setting my thought process off worse then before.

I do agree with some of their assessments, that with ADD that are contributing outside factors that can really mess up children and contribute to the problem more. Like me in & out of faster homes, subjected to much violence as a child. Yes, I used drugs, yes I was anti-social, but I was never a trouble maker!

They are trying to make assumptions and say that the end result is a lot of bad people that are trash needing to be cleaned up, and they are not giving any respect or consideration to how we feel, or offering suggestions, humanely to really help.

I could not read the whole article, but what I did read, was a bit irritating to see where they were taking it. Was in the end way to long for me to keep at it on the reading, I may come back to this though.

Sumi Says: NOW..HAVEN'T I STUMBLED UPON, TIME AFTER TIME THAT DOCTORS LOVE TO TALK ABOUT HOW CIRCUMSTANCES SUCH AS ABUSE ETC IN A CHILDS EARLY LIFE OR BASICALLY IN YOUR LIFE AND DEPPRESSION CAN MIMIC SYMPTOMS OF ADHD.

AM I THINKING CORRECTLY HERE?

Sumi and all you others that are so insulted and upset about the possibility that criminals have ADHD - I understand the fear and the upset this article causes. I myself suffer from ADD and have within myself experienced something very frightening. I have never committed a crime, but do you know how we want to kill our boyfriends when they hurt us so bad - I nearly did - I rounded up several men with bats and went around to see him - I think God was on my side that day as he was not there - left town. Now I am as pacifist as they come - what drove me to nearly kill someone - The inability to deal with my emotions and acting without considering the consequences - Yes I would have gone to gaol - But I am a good person

Rae7038191.0096180556I tend to agree with Sumi... Although we have to keep in mind that although criminals may have a tendency to have ADHD, those with ADHD do not have a tendency to be criminal. The article did not state how many ADHDers were criminals. Statistics, especially percentages, are always misleading. Also I would like to know what kind of crimes these people are incarcerated for? I'm willing to bet they are not violent crimes. ADHD does not a criminal make, I think Sumi hit it right on the nose by describing a poor home environment at a young age or a misdiagnosis. I may even go so far to say that it is an excuse from the prisioner or anyone looking to place blame anywhere but themselves for failing to hold up their end of the bargin (such as their parents, teachers, etc) and taking action/responsability BEFORE the crime was committed.

i think that i obviously portrayed my opinion in this thread as being relatively balanced. i did concede that there is a connection btwn impulsivity and how that could lend an adhd sufferer to a harmful path in life.

however i will not back down on my commentary about the report in that i would absoulutely require something with far MORE veracity and thorough explanation to accept that the prison population is so hugely comprised of adhd sufferers. i think its plainly a risk to throw about some really questionable 'guesstimates' when concerning what is seemingly supposed to be an official discourse and perspective on the root problems they see in children and prevention of anti social behavior.

so i do agree that impulsivity could lead to a criminal act. this could be the case whether you're bipolar, or even a normal person who happens to have a tendencey to impulsivity (which doesn't mean you have adhd or bipolar etc)

i do not agree however of the usage of some really ridiculously large guesses about suggesting that the prison population is 20 40 70 adhd.

what is the purpose of this anyway? what is the whole point of this article? if you are trying to make the public aware of the issue of prevention i don't think categorizing the prison population in such a manner necessarily contributes to your cause. afterall it would lead most that couldn't care to really understand to make the common connection without any analyzing thought...: adhd= criminals.

its rather alarmist sounding, and i don't think therefore i would grant it an 'A' as far as public education to our complex issues. i think i'd rather a focused explanation of adhd and its implications than a hodgepodge of here's some bipolar and here's some adhd and bam you got problems.

don't anyone come to me about comorbidity. i know of this.

it does not change my argument.

sumi

With the risk of being outed - I dont think the article is that off target. Children with ADHD etc do have a high chance of becoming involved in crime. They are more impulsive and more likely to try to impress their peers. Not all children with adhd will become criminals but I think most people who commit crimes MUST have some sort of social disability to commit the crime in the first place. Perhaps when they do not have the help or support they need.

Why do you believe that children with ADHD have are more likely to be criminals?

LOLLLLLLLLLLLL

that is so hilarious!

thanks for the laugh..

sumi

I really dont think there is too much to argue about personally. I think that everybody has the potential to commit crime depending on how far they are driven to it - So even though I personally think you have a higher chance of committing crime if you are adhd (but that is only based on my own opinion and personal experience within my own family) I do not believe that all people with adhd will commit crime. No I do not like to be portrayed in anyway - I want to be just taken for how I present myself. And unfortunately people will always categorise & portray others and allowing this to affect you only empowers them. I don't give a toot how people talk about me -

Has anyone considered that the criminals in prison only represent those criminals that have been caught! Perhaps what shouldbe stated that hte criminals that were suffering from ADHD were most likely to be caught. Perhaps better organized criminals without ADHD symptoms are less likely to be caught.

You can lie with stats a million different ways

BioSphereHomie,

Thats one I hadn't thought about! You could be right!

barb38192.7385300926

I don't believe that study was warped or that the article was intended to blame society's ills on those of us with ADHD.

Think about the adults in jails now. They were raised before ADHD was accepted as a cognitive disorder and either drugged into zombie status or raised with the "beat them into behaving" mentality. The ones that neither of those apply to were most likely given up on by the adults in their lives and did as they chose as teens. When you consider that other behavior disorders were recognized and treated for years before ADHD was, it stands to reason that the highest percentage would be ADHD.

The lower percentage of juveniles with ADHD in correction facilities now, reflects the changing acceptance of ADHD as a real disorder which is treatable. The fact that it is still too high is, as the article points out, because society as a whole is in transition right now concerning accepting and learning how to deal with ADHD as a treatable condition.

I believe the article is trying to show the things which affect people with ADHD negatively and explain how they are affected by it.

It points out that the school system is at fault to a large degree because they refuse to be proactive in dealing with it and prefer to blame anyone or anything other than the fact that they don't equip their teachers to deal with ADHDers in the way they learn and grow. They try to force children with ADHD into a mold which will never fit, causing them to have feelings of low self esteem and pushing them through the system without a good education.

It also points out that parents and communities have the responsibility to nurture ADHD children and that the kids can't raise themselves or thrive in an environment of blame and negative feed back. It also points out that positive reinforcement is the most beneficial.

I have to admit that I had to read it through more than once before I saw what they were trying to say because it is poorly written. The 20 50 thing is meant to mean that it is the 20th point the person writing the survey results was making. At least, that is what I gathered from every point being numbered.

I think that we adult ADHDers tend to see criticism where none is intended because that is what we grew up with and are used to hearing. We have been put on the defensive for so much of our lives, that criticism is what we expect from life.

Frankly, we are the pioneers for ADHD acceptance. It is up to us and to the parents of ADHD children to push for everything necessary to get the knowledge out to the public that ADHD is not a curse and not an automatic sentence to a life of poverty or failure. We also have the responsibility to educate the public in how to encourage the positive growth of someone with ADHD rather than discourage them. That is what I got from the article.

I have to agree that the article was very poorly written. I look back at it after reading Barb's post and try to see it through the eyes of the general population. As it describes the working styles and hardships that the people in the article endure, I still felt that the entire article had a negative connotation about those with ADHD. The title of the article clearly sets the tone for the reader, "Office Messes". I guess I fail to see how one could read through and not walk away without having a sense that the writer was attempting to show ADHD in a poor light. I do feel that the writer did make some positive statements such as the story about how the librarian was able to pick out the missing DVD because her eye just happened to catch something out of place, or the stories about other sales exec's that feel that ADHD is one of their good traits. The article also offers some good information on this disorder but as a whole the author continues to bring up the fact that the symptoms of ADHD look just like lazy stupid people, making it hard for the general population to accept this as a genuine disorder.

I did think that this was a very interesting theory: "If A.D.D. is a function of biology as old as humankind, then why this growing clamor for diagnosis at this particular moment? One answer is that medical diagnoses ebb and flow with the times. Looked at through that lens, Western society seems ripe for this disorder. Now is a time when diagnosis can lead to action -- not only are there more medications to treat A.D.D., but Americans are arguably more willing to take pills to change their temperament. Also, other eras provided more jobs for people who needed to move and do rather than sit and think -- more jobs in factories, on farms, in door-to-door sales. Go even further back, and there were adventurers and pioneers. Today we sit at desks, in cubicles, staring at screens". This statement had that "ring of truth" to it, That may be just why all of the sudden we are seeing this emerge as a "problem".

And I also liked the description of jobs that suit those with ADHD: "It is accepted wisdom in A.D.D. circles that certain types of work are a nightmare for those with A.D.D. (accounting comes to mind) and that others are virtual magnets for those with the condition: sales, contracting, waitressing, hairdressing -- any job that involves chatting and moving around. Stock trading, acting, law enforcement, emergency medicine -- any job that runs on adrenaline and deadline. Journalism is thought to be full of people with A.D.D., doctors and coaches tell me. (Yes, I took the screening test. I have many of the tendencies, but not the disorder.) Entrepreneurs with A.D.D. often thrive as well, but only if they have a partner who is good at paperwork." It's funny...just how many of us here on this board are in desk jobs? And I know for sure some of us are accountants...

Anyway, I still feel that even if this article is scrutnized (sp?) for it's meaning the overall theme seems to be neagative. Although I think that the writer is right, ADHD will soon become accepted as depression did. I just hope it's sooner rather than later.

As the Parent of a ADHD son,I have experienced a young man (19) fall through the cracks,The education system diagnosed him and did NOTHING 4 him,sent him to Vocational school but didn't offer any trades,I had a hand full of Minor involvements with the law during his midteens,He has had a few jobs,but has lost them. On the surface you see no problem,so people think he is just lazy and not ambitious.He has never been on any Meds,But maybe I should look into this,I fear for his Future. Rae70 - Your Description about ADHD is him to a tee,I have never heard of ODD.So I am now understanding that other things can go along with ADHD.ADHD has more to do with impulsivity, lack of inhibition, causing "foot in mouth", disorganisation, inability to finish projects, restlessness, poor social skills (mostly due the other problems) focuses on 'want too's' not 'have toos'. Then some ADHD people had what we call comorbid conditions including Oppositional Defiance Disorder (ODD), autism, aspergers, bi-polar

Well,

I'm glad so many people contributed to this post. I was glad to see many people unafraid to express their opinions, even if they thought I would be upset by them. I view that study with a lot of skepticism and I fear being negatively labeled if this is the kind of information the public reads about ADHD.

I have a lot of remorse over things I do that my hyperactivity contributed to. I'm an adult and I still feel bad about the time I was 6 and I hit my dad's uncle with a basketball and spilled beer all down the front of his shirt, just because I could. I apologized years later but still think about it from time to time. I have remorse for everytime people complained I was too loud or too hyper, maybe I could've kept more friends if I had just calmed down.

None of these experiences led me to a criminal life. I think it takes more than a neurological problem to become a criminal. I think it's a choice and whether you're ADHD or not, you still have a choice. And like most people out there, most of us choose not to go down that road.

Thank Heavens for the internet,prior to this type of forum obtaining info. and sharing thoughts and ideas seemed so isolated,I have appreciated the feedback and personal experiences of those who contributed to this forum topic.