Amphetemines addictive? | ADHD Information

Ok I know this is a very touchy subject.  we just switched my son from Concerta 36 mg to Adderall XR 15 mg.  Reading the information pamphlet (like I always do) it read that Adderall is addictive and should not be taken for a long length of time.  Well I always knew this but something just hit me recently.  I am so scared.  We teach our children not to take drugs, but hear I am feeding him amphetemines, and like marijuana, what will happen when the amphetemines arent enough, will he subject himself to something harder.  The meds work for him, it has been the only thing to really help him, but now I have worked myself up.  Last Friday, we had run out of medication,  my fault but I sent him to school non medicated, thinking its Friday, one day, well he got in trouble that day, and for punishment his teacher had him write a letter describing what he did and why he did it.  You could see in the letter how the ADHD affected him, he wrote things like, I dont know why I get in trouble and nobody likes me, all I try to be is a good student and I just stay in trouble, sometimes I wish I was dead.  He is 10.  I didnt see this letter until last night.  I shook when I read the letter, rather I freaked, my heart leaped inside of me.  So I of course approached him and tried to talk to him, he threw a tantrum and said I dont want to talk about this, I cant handle it.  So I decided to write him a letter, it worked, he came and talked to me, but I still worry so much.   He is in counceling and I will bring his letter to the counseler.  But do any of you ever get to a point where you start feeling this way?  Are you scared?  I think my gosh one day off the meds and he drops like this.  Are there any suggestions on different alternatives?  I know this is a long post but I am frightened, am I doing the right thing. bugzqppers and chuckles.  Thank you so much for your support and taking the time to thoroughly describe all of it in great detail for me.  I myself, suffer from depression, which I feel my be attribituted (sp?) to undiagnosed ADHD.  It just makes sense when I read more and more.  My fear for my child is that his thoughts do not lead to the thoughts I myself have experienced so when I read his letter, I freaked.  I am scared to talk to friends and family because I dont feel they truly understand which is why I posted, I wanted somewhere to turn.  I am so sorry my post caused some aggravated results.  The letter I wrote to him was nothing more than supportive.  I told him I loved him even when he did bad things, I told him I loved him even when he was sad and that I know he loves me when I am not so perfect, I told him that he could always come to me for anything even if I get mad at first, I would promise to think it out and we would work out solutions together, I told him to never be afraid to tell me when he had ugly thoughts and that sometimes talking to each other can make us feel better.  I am a single mom.  It is just me and him, I want to be sure to have that communication wide open.  I am printing all of this out.  My son has therapy and a Dr appt today, so I will take the information even that from Reality and see what they say.  My sons Doctors are phenomenal so I know the info I bring would be greatly recieved.  Again thank you so very very much, bugzappers what you had to say really really made so much sense, and made me feel like I am doing the right thing or at least on the right path.  Oh Reality, please do not challenge me over drug classifications. If you have read any of my posts you would know that I not only work in healthcare, but I also work for a pharma company and know my fair share about medications, pharmacokinetics and dynamics.

"Schedule II drugs are those with a high potential for abuse, but recognized medical use; and a high incidence of physical or psychological dependence."

As I will point out to you for the last time: Dependence and addiction are two different things. These medications when used appropriately under a doctor's care for the correct medical issue are not addictive. When used by a person who does not have ADHD/ADD, then they may pose a risk for being addictive and that, my misinformed friend, is why the FDA and DEA must put a warning label on Schedule II controlled substances. I have used pain medication following surgery that fell into the controlled substance Schedule II family of meds and I did not become addicted to the medication....why?...because I do not have an addictive personality. If you do not suffer from the disease of addiction, then there really isn't a problem with using these medications under a MD's care and for their intended medical purpose. My husband is ADD and also suffers from alcoholism and I assure you that even with his addictive personality, he is not addicted to his ADD medication. Will he in time become physically dependent on it, most likely, but that is a completely different story from addiction. Many, if not all, medications when used for long periods of time cause the user to become physically dependent on the medication. Diabetics are physically dependent on insulin as I have pointed out before, it does not mean they become addicted to their medication.

Fortunately, you are not a medical professional and fortunately people can distinguish your misinformed crud from real information. You are having a real difficult time even understanding the signs and symptoms of ADD, so you really shouldn't be stating what is considered withdrawl and what are actually symptoms of ADD. That really is not your expertise, now is it?

As I have said before, there is nothing wrong with checking out alternatives as long as you are well informed about what you are considering alternatives. Many medications today are derived from natural sources, they are tested and the side effects are documented. Alternative therapies are the unknown in many cases and can be just as problematic as medications. Natural does not always mean safe.

Dawn Joyce, ADHD is a set of symptoms caused by an imbalance of dopamine, a powerful neurotransmitter in the brain. Stimulants, or better labeled, dopamine reuptake inhibitors, help to control this imbalance and allow a child or adult with ADD to think more like "normal" folks. My husband and my stepson have both been diagnosed and have reaped enormous benefits from medication. My stepson is on Concerta and my husband is on Adderall. You can really tell when my stepson has not had his medication, he is truly classic ADHD when he does not have it...this is absolutely NOT withdrawls, this was his behavior before starting medication. As children age, their bodies change and medications affect them differently. Expect several medication changes throughout your child's lifetime and hang in there....you are putting your child as your first priority and that makes you a good parent, whether you choose to continue with medication or not. The doses of medication used to treat ADHD and ADD are lower than what would be considered a "good" dose by an addict and the longer acting medications are not what addicts want anyway....they want a high, not a time-release dose of medication. People accurately diagnosed with ADD rarely, very rarely become addicted to their medication. Please disregard Reality's comments as this person is not well informed about medications. Consult with your physician or pharmacist as they know your child and situation better than anyone on a message board. Good luck and hang in there, you are obviously a good parent.

I'm glad to see you are not phased by the rants of Reality.  He is a follower of the anti-med websites and they are totally against us and our children having any access to the ADHD meds.  They'd rather watch us suffer than admit that there are safe and effective ways to administer medication.

If this was vicodin or percoset you'd have an easier time getting refills.  The MDs are still learning what is appropriate and would rather give out oxycontin (a truly sinister and addictive medication when abused) than give out a month of our meds.

Read up - and keep in contact with your medical providers.  If you find that you are not receiving either the care you believe you are entitled to or the information you need then look elsewhere.

Glad you are here!

Reality, people with ADHD are LESS likely to become addicted to cocaine.  When we use cocaine we do not experience the same high that people who are non ADHD experience.  It makes us hyper focus and does not supply the sensations in the brain that would lead one to abuse the substance.  Unlike stimulants for ADHD cocaine is short acting and very strong.  It makes the user feel much different from stimulants and does not supply the required relief that we get from legal stimulants designed for our condition and given to us by our doctors. 

As far as drug or alcohol addiction in ADHDers.  This is caused by the condition of ADHD.  We are more likely to abuse alcohol and marijuana.  Not cocaine.  We use these drugs to try and make us cope with what we are feeling in our heads.  Trust me, been there, done that.  And no, I did not take meds growing up.  I wish I had the opportunity to.  I also tried for 5 years to take a homeopathic route to treat my ADHD.  It did not work.  The remedies were not strong enough and the excersises helped but could not compensate for ADHD.  Only when I began meds did things start to fall in to place and my life began to progress on a positive path.

Reality, how do you cope with your ADHD?  Did you have experience using cocaine because you grew up taking ADHD stimulants?  That is a very unusual case and you should probably speak with your therapist/doctor.

What remedies do you take to help with your ADHD.  I've seen you post many times with an anti med view but you have not shared what your solution has been.  I think that would be the most helpful advise.  Your solution.

Thanks in advance

SDW, I dont believe reality suffers from ADHD, I am unsure as to if he has children that suffer from it, from reading some of the posts.  Interesting why he is even here posting on these boards.

Chuckles...thank you. You obviously know what you are talking about.  It helps to understand why the drugs would be considered for ADHD and it helps to understand why the FDA and DEA would label it as such.  This is the reason I posted here, to get well informed by individuals who know exactly what they are talking about.  I am not in the medical profession and when it comes to certain terms or things that you read you can get confused and misinformed very easily.  As I did.  He is definately classic ADHD and I saw that on Friday.  It did kind of bother me that Reality stated right away that it was most definately not his ADHD but withdrawals, but that is her (?) opinion, I appreciate all input as long as it is knowledgeable and/or thought provoking.  I am not one for the big scare tactics, this is my boy, I love him with my entire soul and I would stake my life for him.  Again I apologize for posting such a touchy subject but I really needed the information that Chuckles and Bugzappers gave and I appreciate it so so very much. 

reality doesn't have ADHD - or so he claims.  He has mentioned he works with addicts so I assume he's a councillor.  He thinks that our meds are the same as heroin and crack (he's said pretty much that in many quotes - chemically like meth, etc.) and seems to have the idea that we are all either pushers or users of illegal drugs.

He pulls out quotes from dubious sources like the anti-ritalin sites, and uses quotes by discredited people in all fields.  He distorts numbers and is so upset when I mention again and again that the meds we use are VERY VERY SAFE.  Your child has higher odds of getting abducted, hit by a car, swallowing drain cleaner, getting attacked by an internet predator (actually all of them together are more likely) than being harmed by our meds WHEN TAKEN AS DIRECTED UNDER A PHYSICIAN'S CARE. 

He mocks my words.  Well, I mock his back.  Mine are scientific - his are rhetoric and anecdotes designed to wreak havoc and fear in people who need help.  He will not typically answer my retorts directly - rather he'll shuffle about and bring up antidepressants and other meds so as to not have to deal with the safety of our meds.

I'm surprised he hasn't brought up how electro-convulsive therapy is SOOOO bad as the anti-ritalin site has that.  No idea why it's also very effective for certain disorders but they have it!

I am a strong believer in choice.  Take meds - don't take them but they are safer than most things we ingest and help a great deal.  But to tell us not to take them and just say "be afraid" is just stupid and irresponsible.

And now - a word from our local psychotic zealot - Reality?

[QUOTE=Dawn Joyce] Are there any suggestions on different alternatives?  I know this is a long post but I am frightened, am I doing the right thing. [/QUOTE]

Dawn Joyce,

You asked for different alternatives.  I have taken Adderall and Concerta.  Adderal worked for me.  Concerta didn't.

I have read a book.  There is a post and thread on the alternatives section of this message board.  There are a few people there who are trying the exercises from this book.  I have been helped greatly by the exercises.  It is amazing to me. 

Anyway, the book is Stopping ADHD, and it is written by two professors of learnign diabilities from a University in Indiana.  They trained with Miriam Bender from Purdue University.  Their research is on primitive reflexes and how they can stay with us through our lives and give us symptoms of ADD and ADHD.

I believe these authors have a breakthrough treatment. 

If you are concerned over medication, this is a great alternative.  It has worked for me.  I tried the exercises and I am still doing them, but I have noticed lots of change in myself.  I think they work better than the medication I have taken. I am not currently taking any medication. 

Good luck to you.

Chuckles,

    What is the proper balance level of Dopamine?

    How do you test it ?

    ... and when you're done with that...

    What is the proper balance level of Serotonin ?

    How do you test for it ?

    I've been waiting 14 years for someone to tell me what the proper balance of these chemicals are and how they test for it.

    I'm waiting....

   

reality, the proper levels of dopamine are when your chemical imbalance is not controlling your every move and it also is when you are not having problems.

 NORMAL LEVELS ARE DIFFERENT FOR EVERYONE, BUT IF YOU OUTPRODUCE THE DOPA WITH THE CHOLINE, YOU ARE IMBALANCED,,


 or the other way around.

 Oh, by the way, do you deny ALZ or PARKINSONS, they are dopamine level induced as well.

 


 
bugzappers38665.8360185185 Dawn,


 I am not a health care worker nor a pharm rep or anything medical. as a matter of fact, I am a sawyer. I run a mill saw and build roof trusses.

 I have no vested interest in pushing meds, or silencing quacks.

  I only go by what I have seen and personal experience.


 Unlike some, it is what I know. And anytime you need someone to yap to, feel free to post. It is your forum, more so than reality. You use it for help and research, reality needs to to push his train of thought with no regard for the posts of others.

Just remember, reality has nothing vested in any of this, I have 36 yrs of life with adhd, and I watched others surpass me and leave me behind in academics and in life.  Sure I was a city councilman, and am married and have kids, but I feel I could have done more in my earlier days and really made a difference. Maybe ran for governor or something.  Unfortunately as I get older, other things are kicking in besides the adhd.

So please use what you learn from all. I will sleep better knowing you have a better understanding of what is going on and that you can turn to us , (well some of us), for answers.

 But then I would rather be me, than reality. It is in denial of what it has, and has a complex of always being right.

 I bid you peace. bugzappers38665.8433333333

I know reality, spoke to him in person, wow his son did not die huh!!! That really p/o's me more even now.

I have had the misfortune of meeting individuals who do not want to believe that ADD or ADHD is real.. the trauma it causes us, the feelings of isolation, shame and self loathing....

People who want to point fingers you have no right - NONE, whatsoever to tell US what is real, what is NOT!!!  You have no right to tell any mom that She can learn to handle their kids better, or just "give them" discipline.. Raise them a different way for feed them a different diet.

We are different, but we are the same, we have feelings, emotions, and thoughs - more than most for sure.  We are smart, very smart and very intelligent people, and we don't need others to try to diminish what is REAL to Us. 

Yes - medication works for me, not because my doctor told me it would, but because I knew it would.. I am able to tell the difference, my husband, kids, friends and family can tell the difference.

My family and friends appreciate, respect and can tolerate me more on my medication.  I can appreciate, respect and tolerate myself more on my medication.

It is NOT drugs, it is medication - medication to treat me from my sickness/ailment/affliction/disease or what ever lable they want to put on it. It is in the same token the way you would treat a Disease/sicknes/ailment/affliction/that you may get and were prescribed with something to help you...

If you don't agree with medication for people with ADHD, like a TV, then Turn off the ADHD program.. find something else better constructive to do with your time, rather than harass the innocent who have a hard time dealing with our lives as it is already.

By the way true ADHD individuals will NOT become addicted to their medication.. They won't want to it is not in their nature to be able to  appreciate the feeling of being controlled by something else.  We already have too much going on to create more problems for ourselves..

A person who is on Medication who is worried about addiction will Not Be addicted.  My 2 cents

Great commit and i honestly would never abuse my meds because things are now starting to turn around and i would hate to jeperdize all the work i put it to build my self confidence and grades only for me to do something idiotic and possible destroy my dreams.  The have been in shambles for long enough and now the are coming back.  I was diagnosed in the summer after first thinking it was depression but the psychiartist fortunately thought there might be a bit more to it but great post Karem

bugz,

   Would you please point out where I have posted out of context on this thread ?

    Thank you

TWEEDLE, AND REALITY,,

Because this FORUM is to INFORM, not use SCARE TACTICS to make people fearful. If you want to INFORM do it properly and on the RIGHT BOARD. NOT EVERY POST.

 and for your information, your concerta suicide site reads concerta SUISIDE on the HEADER BAR OF THE MAIN PAGE IN THE BLUE BOX SHOWING IT IS A LIE.

 next.

 here is how to inform

 I have another view on the medications. This is a site that does not recommend using medications for adhd. As there may be many questions about the medications that we feel are unanswered.

 then put your web site.. www.123.com, and if you have more than one, DON'T use another post, just put the link one line down and say, I also have another opposing viewpoint site at www.456.com


and then drop it. you don't fill the whole thing with crap and post all the info . let them go to it. and you don't have your alteregos post on the same board.

 I guarantee, if your posts start making the admins mad because of bandwidth waste, I bet you will be gone. I do report everyone of them that is excessive.

ps, I don't have to answer to you.

 but to make you happy,, what does straterra have to do with adderall? nothing.
not in this thread, And HOW DO YOU KNOW IT WASN'T ADHD, for her child on that day? Have you ADHD, no YOU have told us you have no ties to adhd, or to anyone who is. And then you CLAIM people on adhd meds are 3 TIMES more likely to go on cocaine. REALLY , IS THAT SO. NO ONE I KNOW HAS, And I have adhd, and have had it for 36 yrs, and I have been on ritalin when I was 7 till I was 14 and went on dexedrine spansules.. and I am still here, and not on cocaine. AS are several OTHERS THAT I KNOW WITH ADHD LIKE ME. so if you care to step to the door and exit quickly, please do so.
bugzappers38664.8643287037Reality, once again your statistics are wrong wrong wrong. There are NO conclusive studies about addiction and ADHD medications. Stop indicating to parents that their children will become addicted to medication used to treat a medical disorder. When used correctly, under a MD's prescription and for a child with ADHD these medications can actually prevent a child from becoming an addict or an alcoholic. Untreated ADHD leads a person to self-medicate to help them deal with having erratic and unorganized thoughts, and to help them "feel" better.

Dawn Joyce, as the wife of a person who was untreated for their ADD all throughout their life, until they reached adulthood and the wife of a recovering substance abuser, I implore you to seek out the best treatment for your child. If you do not treat your child, they have a more likely chance of becoming an addict or alcoholic to still the bees in their head. My husband suffered his entire childhood and a large portion of his adult life thinking he was not good enough or hadn't achieved his potential, he suffered from depression because he felt he didn't measure up to anyone, and a few times he wanted to die....he went to treatment for alcoholism and was sober for a year before he was finally diagnosed with ADD because he could not even finish making a pot of coffee without getting distracted. My husband was successful at his career because it offered him an alternative to dopamine reuptake inhibitors (Ritalin/Concerta/Adderal) through epinephrine (he worked a very high stress, high action job), but when he went back to school, he couldn't focus without a zillion pots of coffee. My husband picked fights with everyone because the adrenaline helped him to think more clearly and my husband suffered the consequences of untreated ADD every day of his life. He started on Adderal and was taken aback by being able to think clearly for probably the first time in his life. He has been successful in school, at his job, and in our family life. He is a wonderful person to be around and all because he was finally being treated for his medical disorder. He finally feels good, really good about himself and his potential for the first time in his life and feels like he has awoken from a dream or a bad nightmare. Even with the medication, it still bothers him that he had to go his entire life feeling the way he did and sometimes that brings him down...he knows how he was treated and knows that it wasn't his fault and that makes him sad sometimes. I can totally feel why your son may feel that way occasionally and he may also suffer from depression as ADD and depression are often co-morbid. You are doing the right thing, despite how hard it is for you, your son will thank you some day...I promise. Stick in there and work on things...a therapist is a wonderful idea and keep taking the best care of your son that you can...he deserves it. My husband deserved to have a "normal" childhood, he deserved a chance....and he had to find that at the bottom of a bottle of liquor or through recreational drugs, because his parents and the medical community didn't know as much as we know now. I cannot tell you how many people we have met through AA and al-anon that have struggled with the exact same symtoms throughout their lives and it was only after they got sober and diagnosed that they were really able to live.

Keep in mind that Reality does not have ADHD, nor does this person know anyone who has ADHD and cannot possibly know the pain that this disorder can cause for people. Hang in there!

Chuckles...

    Do you know what a Schedule 2 Narcotic classification for a drug means ?

    It means that the DEA, the FDA and even the manufacturer all claim that this drug is considered ADDICTIVE.

    Most of your common ADHD stimulant drugs are in this classification.

    Therefore, most of your common ADHD stimulant drugs ARE ADDICTIVE !!!

   

     Her son's behavior after not having taken any "med" for more than 24 hours was NOT ADHD caused !!!

     IT WAS WITHDRAWALS.... and he was  cured shortly after taking another pill.

     I'm not saying that these drugs don't work.  I'm just saying that the "cure" has a lot of negatives with it.

     Perhaps her son would benefit more from "alternatives" and I have a pile of info available on that subject.

    And Chuckles, I've already admitted that I don't have ADHD.... but what makes you think I don't know anyone who has ADHD ???

.

reported Again,
 
 Reality, IE the post above ....

This is a person that is posting that has NO EXPERIENCE, HAS BEEN CAUGHT CLAIMING A SON DIED AND I PROVED HE WASN'T AND HE ADMITTED IT. To the SAME SITE HE WILL LEAD YOU TO. So unless you want spam, don't email him.

 He is anti adhd, and anti med, and anti human.

 he does not let anyone post on the board without subjecting the post to tons of anti meds and terrible things that will happen if you don't subscribe to his train of thought.

 I have reported him for trying to jump the thread and posting out of context.

 

Dear Dawn Joyce,

    Concerta is addictive too !

    "Will he subject himself to something harder ?"...   After taking addictive ADHD drugs like Adderral, Stratterra, Concerta and Ritalin, kids like your son are 3 times more likely to try Cocaine than  non "ADHD drugged" peers.

    It was not the "ADHD" affecting him on Friday.... he was beginning WITHDRAWALS from his ADHD meds. Your son is now "dependent" on his "meds". 

    Amazing how all those "symptoms" disappeared less than an hour after he took the next pill....

    There is an alternatives message board on this forum.

    If you want more info, please email me at realityab@yahoo.com

 

.

He is disappointed in being bad, and getting labeled. This has nothing to do with the medication. He feels guilty because of the behavior.

 Sounds to me like the teacher and school is very HARD on the fellow. I bet he is getting picked on at school as well.

AGAIN,
 This has nothing to do with the meds.

 I am adhd and there are times as a kid I felt bad for what I had done, and wished I was dead, rather than face the punishment.

 It is true, that he CANNOT stop the impulses to do the things he does, he also does not know why he does them.  Which makes everyone focus on him, his bad moment, and his behavior. So then he feels TOTALLY isolated and hates himself for causing all this attention to himself. And trys to make up for that personal feeling by acting out and trying to be silly and funny ALL the time. Especially when not called for. He just blurts it out. Because his feelings in that area are immature.

Then he becomes introverted, and feels no matter what he does, he can never get ahead, nor can he do it right.

 I am sure he does not mean he wishes he was dead. He is just making a statement like we do. Such as I HATE YOU, or I wish you were dead, or I wish you were never born, or something to that effect. We don't mean it, but we do say it, or we may think it.

 kids can too. and if they hear someone say it to someone else, they will pick up on it.

 Remember, his actions, thoughts, and general demeanor are going to be immature because of the adhd. And he is impulsive. Not suicidal. Don't read into it so much.

There are other medications that work as well. So if this starts to drop off, you have other areas to explore with this.

  You have found out how badly he wants to do right, but for something inside him, won't let him. Give him the credit for trying and remember, His ego is EXTREMELY FRAGILE. If you criticize him, he will be many times harder on himself, in private, than you. He will also express it outwards towards others that HE criticizes. maybe even using your exact words. talk about dejavu.

 Just remember, it is a chemical imbalance, and it takes medication to treat, and if the meds are not there, it is not being treated.

Believe you me, I can relate to him.

I am glad that you tried to write a letter to him, this may be a breakthrough for you. If you can't always communicate verbally. Try writing to him. He responded. So now at least you have another means to communicate to him, instead of just the one. Remember, I would try to keep that line open, use that line for caring and openness, not for punishment or chores. If he expects praise from you in the letters, he may become excited to read it, if it is punishment, he will not , and may totally cut off communication.

 So if verbal stops. resort to writing. or mail him a letter.

I feel bad for you since it seems no one has told you "what" you might expect with a child with adhd, or any dx like this.

This behavior is characteristic of adhd. Teenage years are so awkward for us, I can't begin to think about it.

As far as addictive, well EVERYTHING kinda is. But if he is adhd, the amounts we take are not high enough to be addictive. You will see some posting they take 160+ mgs, daily.. well my dr. told me I will never go higher than 60mg with him, and that he never has, and that at higher doses then recommended people become addicts and adderall is not working for them and something else needs to be done.

So those taking abnormally high doses, are fast metabolizers, or addicts.

 We adhd'ers generally speaking can't become addicted because we need so little to make it work.

 And if you need more, there are other meds for that. I am 36 and on adderall xr, 25 mg. and doing just fine. No addictions or nothing. one pill, every morning.

My psych is a ex prison shrink , worked there for 13 yrs, been on his own doing this for the last 8 yrs. I like that he had worked with prisoners, because that tells me he had a BOATLOAD of patients and has pretty much seen and heard it all. So my little adhd, seems like a walk in the park.

Do me a favor, print out your post and my answer, and see what your counselor thinks.

And yes, your doing the right thing. Unfortunately, for now it is the only thing.

 No matter what others who have no experience may claim, chemical imbalances will change as soon as the imbalance is restored, like when he took the medication. It is like a lightbulb. The funny thing is, unless you have it or have it explained to you by someone who has it, you won't understand it, and think your doing something wrong. Ignore the hype and the persons who show tons of data, but have no idea about what they say. I am an adult and can sense things within myself, as I am sure you can, and I know when something is wrong. I know I have adhd, and I know it is real. And I can describe for you, what I feel.

 And to further educate you on frauds. Most frauds will tell you, tons of stats, someone who took it and died or something bad happened, and never says anything good about any part of posts, or trys to lure you to another chat or site.

 remember, hysteria always has one agenda. to scare you away, and make you feel bad about what your doing.
bugzappers38664.842349537

Reality, you are completely wrong.  My mother was not on antidepressants.  Straw grasping at it's finest. 

Share some personal experiences with us.  Do you have a child who is ADHD and was your wife on anti dressants while she was pregnant?  Tell us some stories from the front lines....if you have any.  Guess what....?  I do!

Chuckles,

   So you're telling me that there is no scientific FACT regarding ADHD and unbalanced dopamine levels.  Our beloved scientists still have no way to safely "test" enough to determine what the balanced level is. All of these diagnosis/treatments for ADHD are based on a theory.

   Don't worry about the serotonin/depression connection. there's no way to safely test enough to determine a "balanced' level of it either. Isn't it funny how they focus so heavily on neurotransmitters in the brain when 95% of your serotonin is in your gut !   It's a head-tailed cat for sure !

   I do keep in mind that this is an ADHD board... but my theory relating depression and ADHD has far more credibility than any of the "chemical imbalance" ones.

   My theory is that Depression in mothers causes ADHD in children. Based on a few "facts" that I've picked up here, children with "ADHD" are 4 times more likely to have mothers on antidepressants.

   I've never really studied physiology so I don't understand much of it.... BUT I DO UNDERSTAND DRUG COMPANIES AND PROFITS !!!

 

.

dawn joyce: No problem and no thanks necessary, just use your best judgment.....reality seems to not have much common sense with regards to some of this information.

Reality: Serum dopamine levels can indeed be tested, but not enough out there have been done to determine a "normal" level. There are also issues related to the blood brain barrier and how to test brain levels of common neurotransmitters. They are working right now with testing and documenting the amount of dopaminergic receptors available in a person's brain and how many of them are occupied with stimulant therapy. You could be waiting a significant portion of your life for exact measurements because the nature of science and discovery equates to a lengthy process. Just one drug can take 20+ years to get from concept/discovery to market and I myself am working on therapies that I may never see reach the public in my lifetime. Patience....you certainly will have to eat your words in the next few years as scientists are making great strides in areas of mental health, including depression, AD, ADHD and even parkinson's disease. Your questions are tired, Reality. They have been asked by people in the field who are actually working to make things better for others and working to develop therapies for mental health diseases. My question to you would be...what do you know about the human brain? Are you on the front lines of discovery and research? Do you understand a thing about physiology? I would guess not, because physiologically speaking, the dopamine theory makes sense...common sense...and to those who suffer with mental health issues, they know there has to be a physiological base to what they feel on a regular basis. No one would choose to have ADHD, depression, alcoholism, AD, etc. As far as your question about serotonin levels and whether these levels can be tested, I will have to do some checking because this board is actually a board about ADHD, not depression. ssRI's work for depression and I will look into what the physiological processes are at a later date as I have my hands full with understanding ADHD and that is the focus here....try and keep that in mind. The thing about cocaine is that it to is a schedale II drug.  It is still used in medicine.  Most people don't know this.  When used properly, as a anesthetic.  "Cocaine is used for topical anesthesia and vasoconstriction for surgery of the nose, throat, and oral cavity. Cocaine provides rapid and profound anesthesia in conjunction with vasoconstriction and decongestion of swollen mucosa." from emedicine.com   So it has great and profound results when used properly but when abused becomes stigmatized and olny associated with addiction and illegal behavior.  This is much like the the misinformation that people distribute, like reality, about the medicine for adhd.  It has great use and profound results, atleast for me, but it can be abused and due to that some people tend to associate it with addiction and illegal behavior.  Just because something  is perceived, by some, to be bad doesn't mean it does not have great and profound qualities associated with it.  So please don't think that because something has a potential for abuse doesn't mean it can't be associated with great strides in healthcare.  And if you need a few links on the use of cocaine as a anesthetic let me know because i will happely post them.  JHarman1638665.5799537037

Very good points J!!

And - after cocaine lost it's lustre with the public (hell they used it in COCA-cola til the turn of last century) - they synthesized a dozen or more chemically similar medications that are used everywhere! Lidocaine, procaine, novocaine just to name a few! Anasthetics topical, subdermal - you name it they use it!  All of them a subtle molecule chain change from cocaine. 

But the anti-med fighters love to compare our meds to cocaine because George Dubbya and his troopers in the DEA have not been able to squash the cocaine trade (you'd have to stop the illegal immigration - and who would mow his lawn then?) so they went after abuse of legal but restricted medication.  If Ritalin was a real threat as an addictive substance you'd not be hearing about meth labs but ritalin labs instead. 

Every med gets abused - and the legitamate users get the harm from that.  Look at oxycontin - aka "hillbilly heroin".  Was once a good painkiller (not the best one but was useful nonetheless), now it's the butt of Rush Limbaugh jokes (for that - I'm truly greatful!).  I've yet to hear anyone knock oxycontin in any thread but it's a big threat as an addictive substance as people will pay outrageous amounts to get it black market or from legitamate users.

Hopefully when the Republicans get out of the White House we'll see changes where we no longer see good people punished for the very few (yes Reality - the VERY FEW)

Illegal cocaine will always be a problem because the drug lords make a 5000 - 20000% profit from production cost to street value, depends where you look for info..  Anytime there is that much possibility of money it has the ability recruit almost anyone especially poverty striken people from third world countries.  I know a fewf people that may take a small risk to change 1 dollar to 5000 dollars.

But i agree with you on the ritalin labs.  and the reason oxycontin was percieved as addictive was when people were relating it to legal herion. It is a syntheic opiate but like you said even with great benifits it was abused, and the media stigmatized  it.  So the  bad will always weight out the good in that scenrio leaving those who need it with a harder time getting it. 
JHarman1638665.5967708333