Medication Warning | ADHD Information

I quite agree but maybe its par for the course here.

As I noticed today, this site uses as its leader on ADHD the article "WHAT IS ADHD" written by Mark Domoto, M.Ed (Master of Education) rather than using a doctor, psychiatrist, neurologist, paedriatician or some other expert in the field of diagnosis.

http://www.adhdnews.com/what-is-adhd.htm

And apparently that same gentleman with a masters in EDUCATION has determined that INFANTS can be diagnosed as having ADHD.

What happens then? It would be difficult to give a young baby cognitive therapy - so whats left?

Mind altering drugs?

"ADHD symptoms in infants Extreme restlessness, crying, poor sleep patterns Difficult to feed Constant thirst Frequent tantrums, head banging and rocks the cot "

I don't know, but a baby who'd constantly thirsty? Couldn't the baby be dehydrated for various reasons? A dehydrated baby is not physically well and is LIKELY to be having poor sleep, irritable, tantrums etc. As a baby can't talk, how else is it to convey thats something is wrong than by trying to grab someone's attention by whatever means?

And what happens if a baby already physically unwell happens to have a doctor who has been persuaded by Mr Domoto's article because its there - in your face on the internet courtesy of sites who keep it there like THIS site. What happens if a physically unwell baby is given chemicals that its little developing body and brain cannot cope with - by way of ADHD meds?

What happens in the life of that baby then?

curus38666.5116782407I notice lots of people giving thier opinion on diagnosis and medication
as though they were a doctor. There is a lot of dangerous false
information here, be aware of that while reading. Many of the posts
sound like they know what they are talking when the information is
completely false. There are several dangerous people on here and they
should really be monitored.

"wouldn't it be great to exclude certain people from the conversation?"willc7338668.57I believe that is what I said before. Keep aware of what people say on here
and take it with a grain of salt. Some people are going to give false
information and present it as fact. Most of the people that do this are just
mistaken, other people are purposely misleading.
Addictive or not, taken correctly that shouldn't be a problem. However
that is my opinion. There is of course the potential for abuse, and
medications like this should be monitored by a doctor.

willc73,

What about the people who consistently claim that "addictive drugs are not addictive if you have ADHD" ?

I think we should monitor them.

The sites each of these trolls report their findings from, are owned by scientologists. what does that tell you??

XENU IS HERE

[QUOTE=psm0904]There is a lot of false information being given here by people off the street who have no credentials to be giving it. Listen to your doctors, if you trust them, not people in the internet. I've been warned by many professionals not to read the internet. I still do, but it is a haven for false information. Anybody can set up a website and put down anything they want. They can even fake credentials. LISTEN TO YOUR PROFESSIONALS. YOu can see them, you know who they are, you know if they are helping your child. Unfortunately, the internet is nameless and faceless which breeds a lot of trolling. PM these people and ask if they are willing to talk to you over the phone. I've talked to a few people on the phone because I'm not afraid of who I am--I am who I say I am. Bet they won't agree to call you! They are brave behind the computer, that's all. They have agendas. THis happens on all boards for any mental illness. You have to beware of them. They are the dangerous ones. Many are Scientologists. Just don't take them seriously and you'll be all right. To all of you who claim to know more than doctors, which makes me wonder about gradiose thinking, are you willing to let me call you or are you willing to call me so that we can talk? Send me a PM and that can be arranged. (I don't expect any of these anti-med ranters to take me up on it). I do promise that, if you call, I will be polite and give you a hearing. I admire anyone who is willing to face somebody and have little regard for those who hide.[/QUOTE]

Personally, if someone were claiming to have credentials on here I wouldn't feel that words spoken over a phone were anymore proof of their credentials than what they typed in a pm or email. Anyone on the phone could say they had credentials (if thats what they were purporting) just as easily as they could by typing it. I'd check their credentials through more reliable methods.

I don't think it would bother me if someone with the credentials of an expert happened to be a scientologist though - I'd be more concerned with the quality of his/her expertise than what his/her personal beliefs were.

Same in an emergency situation for instance, a serious accident, massive loss of blood - need life/death surgery. I can't imagine asking the only surgeon on emergency duty:

"Hey, hang on a minute - whats your personal belief, I want to know because I'd rather die in the next few minutes than have a scientologist operate on me, oh and while you're at it, what personal faith does the anaethetist have, cos the same applies there too."

I think the surgeons religion would be the last thing on my mind. Its more likely that I'd be hoping that the surgeon was one of the really good ones, because while they're all qualified, some are better than others. An accurate matching blood type would be more important to me than a matching faith type. Can you imagine the chaos if we had to chose of our physicians on their faith LOL.

curus38668.3604398148

Then curus - would you be also not worried about the medications they give during your emergency? You know that they use all sorts of meds that are dangerous - even deadly. Heparin for one - prevents brain clots but can let you bleed to death. All meds have hazards - you must trust your physician to be aware enough of both the med and your situation to gauge which is best. Dont' you see that?

Give the qualified physicians, psychiatrists and us the benefit of not thinking us idiots or unable to judge what we and the children need or desire. That's not your job any more than trying to prescreen your ER staff when you are brought in with a trauma.

[QUOTE=GlenW]

[/QUOTE]

I'd certainly hope that they had all the facts possible about the drugs they were using and that they knew about how it was important to match the blood type rather than just to give me any blood type or any drug whether appropriate or not for the situation, Glen. That way the odds would be far higher for survival and for intervention if it went wrong than if they didn't know how the drug worked, or the importance of knowing how my body is likely to metabolise it.

I challenge everyone here to ignore curus. Who cares what she says? She's that aunt of yours who doesn't believe in disorders. She's the teacher at school who thinks the kids "Just need firmer parenting." She's the neighbor on the corner who wont' let her kid play with yours because he's "bad." She is that college sophomore (by her admission) who thinks it's funny to order pizza for another person and that's what she's doing here--ordering pizza to bug ya. Do you have contact with these people? NO, you ignore them. Ignore her. By her own admission she won't call anybody and expose who she really is. Treat her like that pesky family member and ignore, ignore, ignore. psm090438668.3703472222

[QUOTE=psm0904]I challenge everyone here to ignore curus. Who cares what she says? She's that aunt of yours who doesn't believe in disorders. She's the teacher at school who thinks the kids "Just need firmer parenting." She's the neighbor on the corner who wont' let her kid play with yours because he's "bad." Do you have contact with these people? NO, you ignore them. Ignore her. By her own admission she won't call anybody and expose who she really is. Treat her like that pesky family member and ignore, ignore, ignore.[/QUOTE]

Great idea PSM, there's only a few of you intent on having a go at me, it would very nice if you could make a start at not trying to follow up every bit of info I post up with an attack on me, "ignore" sounds wonderful :)

"Expose who she really is"? I'm quite obviously someone here who can speak and type just as you are. curus is as real as psm and vice versa. If you can type and I can type, then presumably you can talk and I can talk - how would that "expose" anything. "College sophomore by her own admission", where did you get that from? From someone ELSE who doesn't know me from Adam saying on a few threads that I was a 19 year old student - and now it seems you're quoting that complete misinformation as if it were a fact - this is how confusion and misinformation spreads.

As I usually post articles and, so that its clear that the article actually exists and isn't just second hand gossip and so inaccurate, I always try to remember to leave the source, the url etc. If you doubt the information thats there then check on the source and the references etc as its not ME that has the credentials involved, I don't write those articles. Check for instance the last stuff on this thread about enzymes and psych drugs - I didn't write them - pharmacolgists did! Most of those you can trace if you really need to, ring THEM and see if you feel that they're qualified, what would you expect to get from a conversation with me?

I'm just me the same as you're just you.

Have a good day

curus38668.3866435185

[QUOTE=willc73] Just to give you a quick preview of what Scientologists believe. Aliens
originally populated the world with people, A ship will come back when
we die and bring us back to the home planet. There is some kind of point
system which I don't understand depending on how much money you
give.
Personally I don't consider L. Ron Hubbard a saint and I don't care how
tolerant we should be of others religion. That belief can go screw itself[/QUOTE]

LOL that does sound weird, I've heard Hubbard was a science fiction writer so maybe there's a bit of the creative imagination that came into that. Haven't read anything of his though, but it does sound a bit SciFi. Maybe I'll read one of his novels one day, but I don't really like sci-fi much so I might never get round to it.

Having said that, some Christian religions believe the earth was created in six days from nothing - and that could sound equally as strange to a culture that had never heard of Christianity I suppose, even though we accept it as one kind of Christian belief.

I didn't know Hubbard was a saint, or is that just figure of speech? If it wasn't, do scientologists believe in saints the same was a some Christian religions do?

I don't ever really judge people on their beliefs, I just like people for what they are as individuals, I know some great people from all types of religion, and ones without - athiests - and often I probably don't know what religion they are anyway.

"If it were posted twice then surely it would have been worded the same each time, but no matter. "

It's called cut and paste sweetie.

**************

I don't have a problem with people who do not like medications. I, for years, tried the holistic approach. I do have a problem with ANY post that are overly bias in either direction. That provides information that will confuse a person seeking answers that are helpful.

It took me five years of holistic attempts before I used "drugs". The drugs are simply the only thing that is effective for myself. Lucky for me I can function quite well in society without drugs, have wonderful friends and can keep my relationships solid and on good footing. What I did want to "harness" is my work apptitude that I somehow was not in sync with (I hope that was clear). I have chosen a combination of herbal solutions and drugs prescribed from the doctor. I know the negative effects that drugs have on the liver and kidneys, etc. To combat that I use concentrated aloe very detox formula (oral herbal "med"). I also take a digestive formula of the same aloe concentrate. I do a "shot" of this when I first get up to help flush my kidneys and liver...with 16oz of water.

I also take Ultimate Immunity in conjuction with a multi vitamin, b vitamin and 5000 mg of fish oil a day. The Ulitmate Immunity is one of these "synergy" herbal formulas that help regulate all the bodies systems. This may sound very hippy dippy to many but for me it is a good solution to me taking "real" drugs. I also jog 2-3 miles a day to help keep me "cleansed".

Now for the "real" drugs. Strattera works well for me. I tried it in the past and it gave me a terrible stomach pain I could not tolerate. This time around I decided to try the aloe digestive herb I mentioned above. This has been like a "magic" solution. I have absolutely NO stomach pain and my appitite is fine. The Strattera, for me, has made my thoughts gel. I no longer feel like my brain is organic version of "Flight of the Bumblebee". I feel mentally calm. Relaxed even. This is a first for me. I'm the ultimate fidgeter...rocking legs, picking fingers, chewing the side of my cheek, etc. I'm also not as impulsive with my replies in conversation. I actually think before I act.

I also take a very low dose of Concerta and a low dose of Ritalin in the morning to help me focus and stay on task <Concerta takes to long to kick in>. In the past...the Concerta made me edgy. The fish oil is suppose to help calm a persons mind. I have no idea if it is the fish oil but I no longer feel edgy. It could be a placebo effect but hell, the fish oil is good for me so I'll keep taking it.

I am hoping that all of the precautions I take herbaly will help negate the negative effects of "real" drugs on my kidneys and liver. So far so good. Oh, back to the work thing. I am much more productive, can organize much more effeciantly and can actually follow through with goal setting and business planning. Upper management has noticed my performance (I was recruited for my current position four months ago. That is when I began all the meds for my ADHD. Before that I attemted to manage myself...with no meds. The company I was recruited by is a fortune 100 company and I don't want to screw up. I have jumped from company to company and have also jumped from postion to position in my field <lateral change....I always got bored and needed change>. I am still at the age where it <job and position hopping> does not effect me getting hired for positions. It can be chalked up to "finding my thing"...so to speak. This is the first time I have not gotten complacent within the first two months with my position. This is also the position that I know is perfect for me with many advancement opportunities. Now my professional life can go forward and I can get to where I want to be instead of always looking at where I want to be and not figuring out how to get there. Things now seem clear and my objectives seem obtainable. Not like a dream of where I want to go with no clear path. Again, that goes back to being able to follow through with goal setting and a business plan. I don't just look at what I should be doing and shrug it off to do later. I stay on task.

I know this is a long drawn out post. The point is.....Drugs are not ALL BAD with a MUST BE AVOIDED message. Drugs are not ALL GOOD with a HELL, POP SOME PILLS message either. If one uses common sense, pays attention to what they are doing. Research your decisions, etc, then a middle ground can be met. To miss out on what I want to achieve for myself personally is not living my life to it's fullest potential. Fortunately for myself "real" drugs can help me tremendously in conjuction with herbs. Anyone who is extreme in either direction, I believe, will misguide and potentially give advice that will be detrimental to the individual. Thanks for reading!

PS, I do believe hearing other peoples personal experience in conjunction with research goes a long way when it comes to dispensing information.

sdw22738668.4530555556I'm reasonably certain that in med school, I've learned the difference between fact and fallacy... thanks anyway!

[QUOTE=sdw227]

"If it were posted twice then surely it would have been worded the same each time, but no matter. "

It's called cut and paste sweetie.

**************

PS, I do believe hearing other peoples personal experience in conjunction with research goes a long way when it comes to dispensing information.

[/QUOTE]

LOL SDW, being as you're trying to pull a slightly crafty one on the "cut and paste" comment, then I'll take the luxury of replying to it - I think you need to edit the 2nd of the 'posted twice' messages to match the first of those one - but then the two edits would have different times. So perhaps better to forget it. Its not important. It gave me a smile anyway cos I saw you'd edited the first one to match, and was expecting you were going to pull that one. I think I might try that one day myself LOL.

I'm glad the drugs are working for you and I hope they continue to do so, I have no problem with that at all. You seem to have my views on it all a bit confused somewhere along the line, but thats understandable as a few people have made a continual concerted effort to muddle up messages between several posters, scientologists views, etc, until its fairly hard to determine the individual separate personal opinions of each poster. Thats OK by me, and I'm just glad that some people have managed to disentangle it all, thats all that matters.

Have good weekend SDW. Chat to people you like and who you understand, surely time spent doing that is going to make you feel much better than going into threads mostly just to spend the time posting messages to people that you don't really like and haven't understood what they've posted.

I've got friends coming in a minute so I'm going anyway.

Curus, I posted a post. There was a typo. I changed the typo. I then copied the post to paste it on another thread. I reposted the same post on another thread. I apparently posted it here again as well. Or the other way around. I don't remember which order the edit was in relation to when it was posted. Why would I not change a typo? Even if it was posted twice? Check the other threads. You'll find the same post. Free of typo's. I also don't remember if I changed the typo before or after the cut and paste. Can I delet a message totally? Why would I want to be "crafty" about posting a message? What is your implication? See, you are not interested in helping people with advice. You are interested in stirring the pot...so to speak.

Ahh, you can delete...just saw the option. I'll delete the original message to make you more comfortable. Also, please don't tell me where to extend my efforts when it comes to posting. I trust my intellect more than your advice. Besides, it's human nature to reply to your post when they are directed to me. That should be an obvious. It is still clear from your smug replies as to your intentions.

And it's not that I don't like you. It's your condescending attitude. That's always been one of my "buttons".

Just out of curiosity....how old are you? Are you a college kid?

sdw22738668.5371990741

Alas, I was wrong about the delete option. But I cleared the message so that it is only posted once Curus. Pardon my digressions.

sdw22738668.5333912037

[QUOTE=willc73]I love this stuff. I would have a problem having a scientologist being my
doctor or operating on me. Do you know what they believe, they are
crazy!!
As far as Mormon, I was more joking than anything. However my parents
retired to St. George Utah and although in general they are nice people,
they do push thier religion. The whole town and most of the state I have
seen is set up to serve the Mormons. It is like they are trying to take over.
Lots of blonde children running around. Like the Scientologists, they have
some crazy beliefs. They do seem very nice.

As far as Utah using the most anti depressants, I don't believe it, actually
I wouldn't believe anything that guy says. He is one of the guys that
spews false information like he has diarhea.[/QUOTE]

Hi Will - No, I don't know much about what scientologists believe, but then I don't know much about moslem or most other religions than my own - but I believe in some crazy sounding ideas sometimes like the idea that there's angels somewhere in this place called heaven that we don't know really exists and stuff like that and that there's a being we've never met and also can't prove exists that we can talk to (prayer). Not always though, I'm more agnostic than anything.

LOL to having a problem with a scientologist being your doctor. Do you know what religion your doctor is? I don't - I've never asked and had never thought about it till recently when all this 'scientology' stuff got thrown around in here.

curus38668.3948842593I still find it ammusing/unusual that some select people who have no real reason to come here do so to antagonize others with a disorder. That speaks volumes about their character. If science doesn't prove it some say it doesn't exist. I think you can only really proof by tests. My issue is with Dr.'s who really don't listen and just hand you a medacine as away to solve the issue. Meds just cover symptoms that's it and doesn't look for the cause. With todays technology a cause should be findable.

[QUOTE=sdw227]I still find it ammusing/unusual that some select people who have no real reason to come here do so to antagonize others with a disorder. That speaks volumes about their character. [/QUOTE]

I read it the first time LOL and presumably you put it again because you want me to reply? It doesn't apply which is why I didn't bother to answer you the first time. The reason it doesn't apply is that I'm not here to "antagonize others with a disorder" as quite a lot of people here know judging from pms. But you're welcome to interpret my presence any way you like. Thats up to you. You don't have to keep my company or read the stuff I leave - just pass over my posts and spend the time with people you DO like here instead.

curus38668.4022685185

Actually Curus I posted it by mistake twice. I don't need a reply from you. Thanks for thinking of me however. I intended to post it under another thread.

I'm not really concerned what you bother with. It's not my issue. Read your reply to others, and yes, you do antagonize....much the same way you are doing with your previous reply. And don't worry. I'm very selective with the company I keep. You may, perhaps be someone I would keep as company. I don't know since I have no idea who you are or what makes you tick. What I do know is that you treat people on this board with a smug attitude. Perhaps you are to short sighted to see that.

sdw22738668.408587963I love this stuff. I would have a problem having a scientologist being my
doctor or operating on me. Do you know what they believe, they are
crazy!!
As far as Mormon, I was more joking than anything. However my parents
retired to St. George Utah and although in general they are nice people,
they do push thier religion. The whole town and most of the state I have
seen is set up to serve the Mormons. It is like they are trying to take over.
Lots of blonde children running around. Like the Scientologists, they have
some crazy beliefs. They do seem very nice.

As far as Utah using the most anti depressants, I don't believe it, actually
I wouldn't believe anything that guy says. He is one of the guys that
spews false information like he has diarhea.

[QUOTE=pastmember]If science doesn't prove it some say it doesn't exist. I think you can only really proof by tests. My issue is with Dr.'s who really don't listen and just hand you a medacine as away to solve the issue. Meds just cover symptoms that's it and doesn't look for the cause. With todays technology a cause should be findable. [/QUOTE]

Bren (? I think thats your name?) yes you do have some good points but I don't like generally drawing you into conversation cos in the past I've seen you being got at because of being lumped in with me, the more you post in threads where a few people are intent on having a go at me (and a few others) then the more likely it is you get a hard time from those same people.

But neither do I want you to think I'm ignoring you.

There are at least tests that could be done to find out if people are LIKELY to have bad reactions to some classes of meds - but I never heard of one case where they were done before handing out prescriptions. Quite a good proportion of people can't metabolize the relevant drugs because of something to do with the enzyme (the one in the post in this thread P450/CYP3 something) thats important. Its like docs aren't even really aware of it, and its just a specific blood test that can determine at least that likelihood of bad reactions.

They've tested a few people AFTER its gone wrong, but its too late then. Its important that people know about things like that and then find out more so they can then at least ask the doctor to do that test.

[QUOTE=curus]

[QUOTE=willc73]I love this stuff. I would have a
problem having a scientologist being my doctor or operating on me. Do
you know what they believe, they are crazy!! As far as Mormon, I was
more joking than anything. However my parents retired to St. George
Utah and although in general they are nice people, they do push thier
religion. The whole town and most of the state I have seen is set up to
serve the Mormons. It is like they are trying to take over. Lots of blonde
children running around. Like the Scientologists, they have some crazy
beliefs. They do seem very nice. As far as Utah using the most anti
depressants, I don't believe it, actually I wouldn't believe anything that
guy says. He is one of the guys that spews false information like he has
diarhea.[/QUOTE]

Hi Will - No, I don't know much about what�scientologists believe, but
then I don't know much about moslem or most other religions than my
own - but I believe in some�crazy sounding ideas sometimes like the idea
that there's angels somewhere in this place called heaven that we don't
know�really exists�and stuff like that and that there's a being we've never
met and also�can't prove exists that we can talk to (prayer).� Not always
though, I'm more agnostic than anything.

LOL to having a problem with a scientologist being your doctor.� Do
you know what religion your doctor is?� I don't - I've never asked and had
never thought about it till recently when all this 'scientology' stuff got
thrown around in here. �

�

[/QUOTE]

Just to give you a quick preview of what Scientologists believe. Aliens
originally populated the world with people, A ship will come back when
we die and bring us back to the home planet. There is some kind of point
system which I don't understand depending on how much money you
give.
Personally I don't consider L. Ron Hubbard a saint and I don't care how
tolerant we should be of others religion. That belief can go screw itself.[QUOTE=sdw227]

Actually Curus I posted it by mistake twice. I don't need a reply from you. Thanks for thinking of me however. I intended to post it under another thread.

[/QUOTE]

If it were posted twice then surely it would have been worded the same each time, but no matter.

Maybe you're OK too SDW, I don't know who you are or what makes you tick either - till you get to know someone its the same the whole world over.

Smug? I think maybe thats just how things are typed, style, language used etc, and how they're read at the other end. You cant SEE if I'm smiling, or joking or angry etc and vice versa. So when we're reading text we all have to interpret things we read ourselves and can get it wrong often. If we had 'video' forums LOL and could actually see the person we're reading and what their body language and facial expression was like it would probably save people a lot of misunderstanding :-)

People will always read things differently. People who are glad of the info etc - they feel differently than people who, like you and a few others, spend a lot of time angry at me and posting lots of messages about it.

We're all different, and its true you can't please all the people all of the time. Perhaps 'ignoring' people who post things you don't like would save you getting upset enough to keep posting messages aimed at trying to hurt their feelings?

I've 'met' what I consider to be some lovely people here and some who I personally don't like so much because of what they post aimed at me - thats life. Someone else might prefer those two lots of people the other way round because they enjoy the opposite type of company or happen to KNOW those persons better? But thats life on the internet and off the internet really.

Don't worry about it.

curus38668.4215046296Yeah, its sad to spend so much time forcing your opinion on other
people. Maybe they are religeous zealots. Maybe they believe aliens came
down and populated the earth with thier seed. Little Info on the owner of ICFDA's educational background.

Ann Blake Tracy, according to the International Coalition for Drug Awareness web site, has a doctorate in health sciences with an emphasis on psychology. There is no mention of the institution that awarded her this degree � George Wythe College, in Cedar City. Tracy explains that the Ph.D. was awarded for "lifetime experience," specifically for the writing of "Prozac: Panacea or Pandora?" which she says she has been told is the equivalent of, or "far beyond," a dissertation.
Self-published, the book contains spelling and punctuation errors and incomplete sentences (although Tracy says an edited version will be published in the next few weeks). It also contains page after page of references to studies that seem to cast a cloud over the safety of antidepressants.
Tracy argues that the whole hypothesis of SSRIs is "backwards." She maintains that the drugs increase serotonin while decreasing the metabolism of serotonin, especially in the 7 to 10 percent of the population she says that studies have shown don't have the proper enzyme to metabolize SSRIs in the first place. The drugs, she charges, can also cause REM sleep behavior disorder (RBD), which can cause people to act out their vivid, violent dreams while in a dreamlike state.

JHarman1638667.922349537

Ann Tracy is a very dangerous woman. She has a lot of followers and some very spurious opinions of things she does not understand. Like the idea of enzymes and SSRIs. No enzymes are needed for the SSRIs to work - they are metabolized primarily as is - goes to the brain and prevents seratonin reuptake (hence the name). She believes that magnets heal (total sham), that most diseases are caused by a common fungal infection and that mercury is causing autism (again - debunked). She has no technical backing (none she brings out in her "credits") and is way out of the field in her zany ideas and theories. Yet she has quite the following.

People - if you see anyone selling magnetism as a healing aid that should be your clue to run, not walk RUN from them. It is a very old and very wrong theory that has been disproven again and again and again. The only thing you get wearing a magnetic bracelet or any trinket is the ability to wipe out your bank card information. And your money from your wallet.

It's the same with the bogus attempts to try and discredit medications because of a few deaths due to user abuse and doctor error. It's like blaming the horse because the rider forced it off a cliff. But to blame the real reasons for death would take away all their thunder.

She went to school in CEDAR CITY, that is the heart of MORMON land.
Personally I wouldn't believe any Mormon when it comes to science or
religion.

Although I'm more than willing to zap an anti-med zealot - you can't hold the mormons on this one. They for the most part aren't big on going around attacking others - but within their community they do have some odd ideas (like no coffee - madness friend madness!!).

She went to school huh? Did she finish grade 12?

There's some valid points made about Ann Blake-Tracy, but one thing she has got right (and I'd always check the validity of her 'science' statements with pharmacological sources in any event, as they are the ones who discover these things anyway) is that of enzymes and SSRIs - and it also applies to many other psych drugs.

Its a very important issue because enzyme involvement and interactions of drugs etc is responsible for a lot of the problems with psych drugs.

I'm not trying to be awkward or protecting Ann Tracy, but its too important to let a (probably unintentional) erroneous statement like

[QUOTE=GlenW]No enzymes are needed for the SSRIs to work - they are metabolized primarily as is - goes to the brain and prevents seratonin reuptake (hence the name). [/QUOTE]

stand as is, sorry Glen - I think you probably just haven't checked it out, or you've misunderstood it because its 'relatively' recent stuff, not having a go at you.

http://www.preskorn.com/books/ssri_s7.html

Clinical Pharmacology of SSRI's
7 - Why Are CYP Enzymes Important When Considering SSRIs?

"...Cytochrome P450 (CYP) enzymes may be termed an "overnight discovery" a billion years in the making (Table 7.1). Only recently have we begun to understand the important role these enzymes play in determining a patient's response to pharmacotherapy. The inhibition of specific CYP enzymes is also the major distinguishing characteristic among SSRIs. Such inhibition produces the potential for specific pharmacokinetic drug interactions between specific SSRIs and concomitantly administered drugs dependent on specific CYP enzymes for their elimination. This section will provide the background information of how our understanding of these enzymes has evolved and their significance relative to the optimal care of patients.

TABLE 7.1 � Unintended Targets of Some SSRIs: CYP Enzymes Evolved over 1 billion years ago Expressed in multiple tissues Highest concentration in hepatocytes Located in: Mitochondria: steroidogenic CYP enzymes Endoplasmic reticulum: xenobiotic CYP enzymes Mediate primarily oxidative metabolism References: 105, 115, 116, 183-185, 187

Our knowledge of oxidative metabolism in the body and the role played by CYP enzymes has been relatively short, but has rapidly expanded, particularly over the last 10 years (Table 7.2). It was only about 100 years ago that drug metabolism was generally accepted to occur in the body. The pigments we now recognize to be multiple, different enzymes were identified approximately 50 years ago and named cytochrome P450 (CYP) due to their ability to absorb light at a frequency of 450 nm. The first gene to code for a specific CYP enzyme was isolated approximately 10 years ago. Due to the advances made possible by molecular biology, we can now study the effects of specific CYP enzymes on specific drugs and vice versa. We are currently "backfilling" our knowledge concerning which CYP enzymes are responsible for the metabolism of drugs.

Although our knowledge is relatively recent, the ancestral CYP enzyme from which all of the current ones evolved came into existence over 1 billion years ago, which underscores the biological importance of these enzymes to organisms, including man.106,107 They are heme-containing monoxygensase enzymes responsible for much of the oxidative metabolism occurring in the body.105

Once the genes that code for specific CYP enzymes were isolated, they could be used to produce the enzymes in purified form - their amino acid sequence could then be determined. This has now been accomplished for all of the human CYP enzymes..."

Theres more to it than that, and sorry about the box - it copies over with the text.

Here's the beginning of another one:

http://www.uspharmacist.com/oldformat.asp?url=newlook/files/ Feat/ACF2ED6.cfm&pub_id=8&article_id=20

Cytochrome P450 3A Subfamily drug interactions Melanie Johns Cupp,Pharm.D., B.C.P.S.
Timothy S. Tracy, Ph.D.

An investigative study conducted at pharmacies in several major metropolitan areas across the United States and published in the August 26, 1996, issue of U.S. News and World Report reported that 30%�50% of pharmacies surveyed, without warning to the patient or prescriber, dispensed drugs with interactions that could be life-threatening or life-altering.1 This investigation was conducted as a follow-up to a previous report in JAMA showing similar results.2 In this investigation pharmacists dispensed simultaneously presented prescriptions for astemizole and ketoconazole, enalapril and triamterene/hydrochlorothiazide, and rifampin and an estrogen-containing oral contraceptive. Interactions between these drug combinations can result in arrhythmias, hyperkalemia or unwanted pregnancy, respectively. The interaction between astemizole and ketoconazole, and between rifampin and estrogen-containing oral contraceptives, is mediated by a subfamily of cytochrome P450 enzymes known as cytochrome P450 3A (CYP3A). This enzyme subfamily is responsible for the metabolism of more medications and hormones than any other cytochrome P450 enzyme subfamily, and many interactions between drugs metabolized by this subfamily of enzymes can be fatal. It is imperative that pharmacists understand the characteristics of this enzyme subfamily, drug interactions involving this subfamily and management of these interactions (see Table 1)...."

There's a lot pharmacological evidence about this and if you do a search on SSRIs Enzymes (or other drugs) they'll come up.

Editing cos I left the title of the first out, and it the title that brings the SSRI connection in so clearly.

curus38667.9736111111curus - I'll give you the benefit of the doubt (though you should have just put the link as this is WAY too long for a forum). I'll read this tomorrow AM and let you and all know if I'm wrong or the data is. I'll respect the idea that it could be me.Glen, I'm really not trying to have go at you, but I think when you see the importance of metabolizing SSRIs and what can happen when this isn't recognised you'll realise I'm not. I hope so anyway.

Just a little education: LDS members (or Mormans) don't believe in forcing people to not take medication. (I am one, and I asked before I joined the church.) That is usually done by people with personal crusades, and then those people put the blame on [their] professed religion.

There is nothing in my bible (or church for that matter) that tells me (or anybody), that I cannot take medication for my managing disability. It is a common misconception that just because my religion doesn't believe in drinking coffee, or smoking, then we, like other religions, also don't allow our members to take medications, have surgery... And other things of that nature.

Please don't group these religions together. Personally I would never group all christians together, because they all believe in Christ, and therefor must be the same. People have different beliefs, and other's need to respect that.

[QUOTE=willc73]She went to school in CEDAR CITY, that is the heart of MORMON land. Personally I wouldn't believe any Mormon when it comes to science or religion. [/QUOTE]

In the future, try not to post something that can be taken as an attack on a person's religon. In the very least it can come across as disrespecful, and at best could be reported as a bad post. I don't believe that you [wilc73] ment anything horrible by your post, but it could be taken the wrong way if a person were to glance at it quickly.

P.S. ~ I do believe that chick from CEDAR CITY is a quack!

Akira_Murdock2438668.2666550926

[QUOTE=curus]Glen, I'm really not trying to have go at you, but I think when you see the importance of metabolizing SSRIs and what can happen when this isn't recognised you'll realise I'm not. I hope so anyway. [/QUOTE]

Your an idiot and evil. Here is you!

[QUOTE=Contrary]

Your an idiot and evil. Here is you!

[/QUOTE]

You don't half look familiar LOL. You're welcome to your opinion - fortunately NOBODY who actually KNOWS me feels that way.

There is a lot of false information being given here by people off the street who have no credentials to be giving it. Listen to your doctors, if you trust them, not people in the internet. I've been warned by many professionals not to read the internet. I still do, but it is a haven for false information. Anybody can set up a website and put down anything they want. They can even fake credentials. LISTEN TO YOUR PROFESSIONALS. YOu can see them, you know who they are, you know if they are helping your child. Unfortunately, the internet is nameless and faceless which breeds a lot of trolling. PM these people and ask if they are willing to talk to you over the phone. I've talked to a few people on the phone because I'm not afraid of who I am--I am who I say I am. Bet they won't agree to call you! They are brave behind the computer, that's all. They have agendas. THis happens on all boards for any mental illness. You have to beware of them. They are the dangerous ones. Many are Scientologists. Just don't take them seriously and you'll be all right. To all of you who claim to know more than doctors, which makes me wonder about gradiose thinking, are you willing to let me call you or are you willing to call me so that we can talk? Send me a PM and that can be arranged. (I don't expect any of these anti-med ranters to take me up on it). I do promise that, if you call, I will be polite and give you a hearing. I admire anyone who is willing to face somebody and have little regard for those who hide.psm090438668.2913310185

Just a little education: LDS members (or Mormans) don't believe in forcing people to not take medication.

Akira,

You are certainly right about that !!!

Utah County is the "heart" of Mormon country and it leads Utah in the use of antidepressants. Utah leads the USA in the use of them and the USA leads the world in the use of them.

Therefore, as a group... MORMONS LEAD THE WORLD IN THE USE OF SSRI AND SNRI ANTIDEPRESSANTS !!!!

.... AND THAT'S A FACT !!!

Some people need a hobby. Unfortunately they make us their hobby. They forget some people here actually need advice. Not force fed bullsh*t. Perhaps they should find sites that address the issues they face. Cause they seem pretty desperate.

If people don't want to medicate themselves that is fine. I do think it is
strange that some people who don't even have ADD tell us how bad it is
to take medication for our problem. Personally I tried a lot of other things
before I started on medication. Adderall has been a life saver for me.
Before I was in a fog with my mind jumping uncontrollably. Now it is
clear. I think for someone to tell me that taking Adderall is bad, when
they don't even know what they are talking about is humorous.
Scientology is truly the strangest religion, very corrupt and without
redeeming qualities. If Scientologists want to come on here and talk to us
about the follies of medications, all they do is strengthen our resolve for
finding correct medication.

bugz,

www.drugawareness.org is not owned by Scientologists.

Neither is www.antidepressantsfacts.com

Well then who owns ritalindeath.com?????

oh yeah, no one, cause it is up for sale to the highest bidder.

ha ha ha ha ah hahaha

Shakespeare, so for one thing you would know about enzymes and drug metabolism then which is good. But its obvious not everyone does. Presumably you don't have any objection to others having that information.

SDW - I don't ask you how old you are, are you a college kid etc. Its not relevant. What difference does my age or circumstances make? Read what you like into it my posts - God knows why you don't spend more of your time on threads you approve of. I don't expect you go searching for, and following everywhere, people you don't like when you're offline. Bye.

Hi Will:

Reality's post about Utah taking the most antidepressants, and your reply, got my curiousity up so I did a quick search to see if there was evidence either way. It looks as though reality is right.

What I found as well is not only do they have the highest rate of antidepressant use, but they also have the highest rate of suicides or at least at the date of the article I found.

As far as the high suicide rate is concerned, they've considered religion, weather, stress, firearms etc and put out various theories as to why, but they can't seem to agree why the high suicide rate and are "baffled" by it. Theyve looked at whether there's more AD use because there's more depression and those views are conflicting too, but the one thing they don't seem to have looked at is whether there is a higher rate of suicidality because they are using more antidepressants.

The article is dated 2002. At that time Prozac had been on the market since 1988 so it had been around for 12 years (though there was an earlier SSRI called Zelmid which had been out since 1982 ).

http://www.adherents.com/largecom/lds_LowSuicideRate.html

[ON SUICIDES]

"...The Beehive State is included in the region with the highest suicide rate in the nation..."

"...The U.S. Census Bureau reports suicide accounts for 14.3 percent of violent deaths in Utah, compared to 9.4 percent in the United States..."

"...For more than 10 years, 15- to 34-year-old males in Utah have had suicide rates markedly higher than those seen nationally. In fact, in the early to mid-1990s, suicide was the number one cause of death among 25- to 44-year-old men in the state and the second-leading cause of death among men aged 15 to 24.

[ON ANTIDEPRESSANTS/SSRIs]

"...More Utahns take Prozac-style drugs than in any other state, according to a study conducted in June of 2001 by Express Scripts, a pharmacy benefit management firm.

The study indicated that Utah residents average 1.1 prescriptions per person per year of medications such as Prozac, Zoloft, and Paxil. The national average is 0.7..."

This article is interesting considering the discussion of suicide in Utah. Seems the rate has changed little over the past two decades. This puts the whole antidepressants as a cause of suicide in a whole new light since people have not been using antidepressants two decades ago like they are now. I also found the mention of "mountian states" as having a higher suicide rate than the national average with Utah having a lower suicide rate than other mountian states.

*******************

Suicide rates nationwide and in Utah have changed very little over the past two decades. However while Utah�s suicide rate has remained relatively constant, the absolute number of persons dying as a result of suicide has increased with Utah�s increasing population. Utah's age-adjusted death rates for suicide are consistently higher than the national rate. The Utah:U.S. ratio shows Utah to be about 1.3 times that of the national rate. The Mountain States, in general, have typically had higher suicide rates than the nation. Although Utah's rate is higher than the national rate, it is lower than the rate for the mountain states region for the years when data are available.