Honest question: if not ADD then what? | ADHD Information

For those who've been telling me for weeks that ADHD doesnt exist, please tell me whats wrong with me. Please do so without cutting and pasting opinion or stuff from medscare sites.

Im 33, diet doesnt effect what happens in my head after excessive experimentation, exercise does help, so did nicotene (but I quit smoking). Lets not argue about neurological problems because they can and do exist. Lets discuss ADHD and what else it may be.

Symptomatically I'm severe combined type. Without medication and structure I cannot function - not 'feel like I cannot' but simply screw so much up that it's safer to sit and rock quietly in my chair ;)

my neuropsyche results including scores from those tests designed to pick up on ADD memory function give a median score that places me in the average/below average intelligence range.

Excluding areas of executive brain function I score incredibly high (considered genius/high genius).

Currently focalin manages my symptoms well enough that I can get things done. My ADD is severe enough that when it wears off I keep forgetting to take another pill, even though I keep telling myself i need to take another pill, and have alarms that tell me to go take another pill. So yes, it's pretty severe :)

I am open to other leads as to what the problem might be. So fire away.

Thanks for your ideas. I hope this can be a useful discussion rather than mudslinging from the various camps.
[QUOTE=reality]

According to those questions.... everybody has ADHD. There was no mention of alternatives... just questions to ask your doctor about drugs and more drugs.

All I post here is info to counterbalance the crap the drug companies are claiming about ADHD and their drugs.

[/QUOTE]

reality you're correct. I apologize for lumping you in with those posters who are obviously just being divisive.

I understand your wish to counterbalance, but when I first started reading this site I can honestly say that I found it informative and talked about the good and the bad. Meds companies are always going to put a spin on things :) Hell, the ADD symptoms are what everyone has except 'MORE SO!", they just want people pushing their doctors to buy their stuff - it's wrong yes but urhmmmm well that heads into politics but I have a healthy a belief in universal healthcare and a controlled pharmacutical industry - profit based medical care is evil. Full stop. No 'right to make a living' crap. There is no argument whatsoever for the current US system. There is no rational argument to defend it either (no matter what certain people may feel or think they know).

So yes, I understand what you mean Reality. Please accept my apology.

I do think those test on the drug company web sites would point most people to believe they have ADHD if they have any stress in their lives. I would also assume most people with demanding jobs experience stress. So I guess everyone has ADHD??? Nahhhhh!!

I saw a psychiatrist for around three years before she told me I was ADHD. I was like "HUH?" Where did THAT come from? Then after some testing and furthur discussion it all made sense. I thought I was just unusually disorgainized and couldn't finish things I start. I always felt like I failed at things because I just didn't have enough disipline. At least now I have a new excuse. I'm ADHD!! All kidding aside. I'm glad I know what the problem is. Now I have to find a solution. I need to change the Strattera dose, add a stimulant or switch. I'll find out on Monday when I see my doctor.

Fallen,

I've never told you that you don't have ADHD. From the symptoms you describe, I'd say you probably do fit the profile of someone with ADHD.

You say you've tried several things to ease it and some have worked... most didn't.

You say that the drugs work for you.

I'm glad you found something that helps you.

My personal beef with the whole ADHD thing is those questions from Eli Lilly that I posted under the heading Question 10.

According to those questions.... everybody has ADHD. There was no mention of alternatives... just questions to ask your doctor about drugs and more drugs.

All I post here is info to counterbalance the crap the drug companies are claiming about ADHD and their drugs.

Curus might have some suggestions and you might get some new ideas from www.ablechild.org.

Fallen,

You don't need anyone to tell you what you have, and I don't think you will probably not find help from the trolls who have taken over this board. They have no idea what's wrong with you because they haven't examined you and are not doctors.

I suggest looking for an adult ADHD site. Most websites are moderated better than this. I think these trolls have chased most of the posters away. It's quiet for now. They will move on when bored.

Good luck,

Pam

I realize that, but I hear a lot about how it doesnt exist so I was wondering what it might be.

Lots of stuff is written about medicating kids, but I'm not a kid.

lots of stuff is written about diet, but I've modified my diet and fitness habits over a period of years.

I'm not bipolar.

So rather tahn look at the negatives I was asking a positive question that wouldnt be about fear mongering.

Reality, Curus et al are always telling me that their private messages reflect how many people find their posts helpful.

I am geniunely asking their help because I figure that there must be something to what they're saying thats legitimate.

Or we're simply dealing with religious zealots, and I dont necessarily feel thats true. Destroying online psyche forums is pretty typical operating procedure. It's not about anger or vitriol, its about reducing the forum to babble and noise so its an unusable resource.

There's also articles like this:

http://www.fabresearch.org/view_item.aspx?item_id=456

"Date: 2003 Dr Alex Richardson, Senior Research Fellow, Mansfield College & University Lab. of Physiology, Oxford

Fatty Acids in Dyslexia, Dyspraxia, ADHD, and the Autistic Spectrum

Scientific evidence suggests that imbalances or deficiencies of certain highly unsaturated fatty acids (HUFA) may contribute to a range of behavioural and learning difficulties including ADHD, dyslexia, dyspraxia, and autistic spectrum disorders. This could help to explain the strong familial associations between these conditions and their common overlap within the same individuals...."

"...It is essential to recognise that ADHD, dyslexia, dyspraxia, or autistic spectrum disorders are simply descriptive labels for particular patterns of behavioural and learning difficulties. In practice, the individual differences between people with any of these labels are substantial, and most show features of more than one of these conditions. Furthermore, fatty acid deficiency is clearly only one possible contributory factor. There are many potential causes of behavioural and learning difficulties; and for any individual, all such avenues should be investigated. For these reasons, fatty acid supplements cannot be expected to help in every case, but potential indicators of a good response to this approach include:

Physical signs of fatty acid deficiency (excessive thirst, frequent urination, rough or dry ‘bumpy’ skin, dry, dull or ‘lifeless’ hair, dandruff, and soft or brittle nails) Allergic tendencies (such as eczema, asthma, hayfever etc.) Visual symptoms (such as poor night vision, sensitivity to bright light, or visual disturbances when reading - e.g. letters and words may appear to move, swim or blur on the page) Attentional problems (distractibility, poor concentration and difficulties in working memory) Emotional sensitivity (such as depression, excessive mood swings or undue anxiety) Sleep problems (especially difficulties in settling at night and waking in the morning) ..."

etc (the above is only parts of the articl)

And about the Durham Omega 3 trials on school children a while ago :

http://www.bbc.co.uk/science/humanbody/mind/articles/intelli genceandmemory/omega_three.shtml

"...The Omega 3 fatty acid used in the Durham trial was Eicosapentaenoic acid (EPA). It may play an equally crucial role in brain function. EPA is found only at very low levels in the cell membranes; it seems to have a functional, rather than a structural role.

“It can improve brain function at the very simplest level, by improving blood flow,” says Richardson.

EPA helps the body manufacture important, hormone-like substances called eicosanoids. Some of these substances help improve blood flow around the body. They also seem to have controlling effects on hormones and the immune system, both of which are known to affect brain function.

Western diets contain very little Omega 3 fatty acid. Hydrogenation, the process used to give foods a long shelf life, removes them. But certain people may break down Omega 3 fatty acids faster than others. Some of the children who showed greatest improvement in the Durham trial might fall into this category...."

And more about the Durham trials:

http://www.durhamtrial.org/

"...The Results

Dramatic results were seen within just 3 months of the Dyspraxia trial. The active group supplementing with fatty acids saw significant improvements in reading (9.5 months), spelling (6.5 months) and behaviour, compared to the placebo group where no overall improvement was made.

During the 3-6 month period when the placebo group crossed over to fatty acid supplementation, considerable improvements were shown in the same areas, with an average reading gain of 13.5 months and an average spelling gain at over 6 months. The active group continuing supplementation displayed further signs of progress or maintained their improvement.

At the start of the trial, children were a year behind their chronological age for reading and spelling, but after the trial, the active group who had been on fatty acids throughout the trial made spelling and reading gains over and above their chronological age..."

Curus, you missed the 'I've experimented with my diet to no effect' part of my post yes? Fatty acids arent the problem. Neither is nutrition - I've tried both excessive supplementing all the way to no supplements with no effect.

And also my 'please DONT simply cut and paste'

I dont have problems with my medication. I'm simply asking about what else my ADD might be.

Like I said, exercise has helped a little. Cigarettes helped a lot. Focalin works great.

IF ADD doesnt exist then what is wrong with me?

Thats interesting..... I watched this about everynight this summer...... The most interesting part about it - is that I think he may have moved to england? I dont know im talking of the top of my head- but anyways..... It was like an English Lady (like the host) of this show.

[QUOTE=bman30]

Did Kevin Trudeau join this discussion forum....... Sometimes I think he has (for you who Don't know - hes the guy you see on all the info commercials for his book - blasting the FDA, and is sure there is a natural "cure" for everything Believes drugs are against human nature... Hes nothing more than an Entrepreneur) I got to say - he is defenetly pursuasive.

[/QUOTE]

They did a special on CNN on Mr. Trudeau. He's a scam artist - he was jailed for fraud and the FCC and other agencies made him the only one who was ever banned from selling ANYTHING a few years back.

He scams people with his book by putting in a few bogus remedies (including crocodile enzymes, brass bracelets, etc.) but making most of the book's answers as "check out the pay-per-view website for details". He makes billions on people getting suckered into that scam.

This guy isn't an entrepreneur - he's a snake-oil salesman

He's most likely moved to somewhere the Federal Trade Commission can't get to him. He's scum - like most homeopathic salesman who try and sell pretty much anything that can be bottled or written down.

I was just watching tonight on CNN that "consumer reports" tested all the popular nutritional supplements on the market in the US and out of all of them only 13 were exactly what was labeled. Many of them had too much Chromium or the lethal kind - which damages the liver. Scary.

http://www.naturaladd.com/resources/articles/adhd.html

and this one is an article from one of the doctors mentioned in that link and is about the use of Inositol in OCD and various other disorders in adults and children:

http://www.naturaladd.com/resources/articles/natural.html

and BBC news:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/4441564.stm

"Nutrients may switch different genes on and off
What we eat may influence our health by changing specific genes, researchers believe.

Several studies in rodents have shown that nutrients and supplements can change the genetics of animals by switching on or off certain genes.

It is not clear whether foods do the same in humans, but an article in New Scientist says there is good reason to believe they do.

In the future, diseases might be reversed by diet in this way, it says.

Modifying DNA

While many disorders in humans are caused by mutations to DNA, a few, including some cancers, occur when genes are switched on or off.

There are thousands of genes in the body, but not all of them are active.

Scientists have been looking at what factors might control gene activity and have found some evidence to suggest that diet is important.

In a recent animal experiment, adult rats were made to behave differently by injecting them with a specific amino acid called L-methionine.

Researchers are studying DNA methylation

After the injections, the animals were less confident when exploring new environments and produced higher levels of stress hormones.

The change to their behaviour occurred because the amino acid altered the way the rat's genes were expressed.

L-methionine altered a gene for glucocorticoid that helps control the animal's response to stress, Moshe Szyf and his team from McGill University in Montreal, Canada, told a meeting on environmental epigenomics in November in Durham, North Carolina.

It added chemical tags, known as methyl groups, to the gene by a process called methylation.

The researchers are now looking to see if they can cause a positive rather than a negative behavioural change in animals using a naturally-occurring chemical called trichostatin A (TSA).

It's quite a strong possibility that nutrients might cause DNA changes

Professor Ian Johnson at the Institute of Food Research

TSA causes the opposite effect to L-methionine on genes, stripping them of methyl groups.

Dr Szyf said his work showed how important subtle nutrients and supplements can be.

Animal research has also shown that a mother's diet can affect the level of DNA methylation and hence gene expression in offspring.

Professor Ian Johnson at the Institute of Food Research is investigating whether colon cancer in humans might be triggered by diet through DNA methylation. His team is studying healthy people before this cancer starts.

He said: "It's quite a strong possibility that nutrients might cause DNA changes. We think diet may have a role to play as a regulator in genes.

"Ultimately one would want to chose diets that would give you the most beneficial pattern of DNA methylation in the gut. But it is too early to say that we know the dietary strategy to do that.

"We need much more research.

"Genes regulate all the processes in the body and things that change gene expression, therefore, may be linked to a number of health issues other than cancer too."

He said one nutrient that scientists believe might influence methylation is folate or folic acid.

A deficiency in folate levels has been linked to an increased risk of developing some adult cancers, including breast and colon. "

curus38673.2377430556

There's also articles on ADHD and a relationship between that and a deficiency in Essential Fatty Acids:

http://www.durham.gov.uk/durhamcc/usp.nsf/0/D7C65B6A37022E0A 80256CC5004FCB51?opendocument

"...Over the last few years there has developed a substantial body of evidence which suggests that children experiencing the developmental disorders of ADHD, dyslexia and/or dyspraxia may also have a deficiency in the fatty acids essential for appropriate structure and effective function of the brain. Two fatty acids – Arachidonic Acid (AA) and Docosahexaenoic acid (DHA) play a major structural role in the brain, with two others Eicosapentaenoic Acid (EPA) and Dihomogamma-linolenic Acid (DGLA) being important for normal brain activity..."

Good heavens. Curus REALLY is desperate in her attempts to make people fear meds. I wonder what's behind the posts. I suspect, as always, a Scientologist. It just isn't normal for a 19 year old college kid to obsess on this sort of website. Most of them are working hard in school and having fun outside of school. This is insane! Oh, well. My advice? Don't read her stuff. I never do. The kid has her own special agenda.

Fallen,

Apology accepted.

The Canadian healthcare system is doomed to fail. There was a book written about it in 1986 and the author said it would come to a point that ..."it's free... it's just not available". That has come true.

To just see a regular doctor is no problem. you can just walk in to some offices. BUT to see a specialist can literally take MONTHS !

AND, if you have the money and want to go to the US for treatment because it's faster... THAT'S NOT ALLOWED !!!

But if you can wait... a heart transplant is FREE !

So neither system works. Maybe curus can tell us about the British system.

Fallon, I've done the same as you. I tried diets and alternatives and they didn't work. The fact is, meds do work the best for these disorders. That's why most people don't use alternatives. For the most part, they don't work. We hear a lot about them, and how great it is to get the level of whatever chemical the child has, but we never hear that the child is markedly better. In my autism group there are some parents with kids are very strict gluten free diets. It has never been proven to work, but they will swear their kids are 100% better. I swear their kids are exactly as they were before, but keep it to myself. My son is actually one of the highest functioning, best behaved kids out of maybe 150 in the group and he isn't on any special diet, although many members have asked me if he is. People don't WANT to medicate themselves or their kids. I didn't want to be on meds. I thought that meds were the final nail in the coffin that meant I admitted to having a mental illness. I tried everything out there before meds, but then I got suicidal and ended up in a hospital. I was very ashamed of taking meds until a friend told me she thinks of her meds the same as a diabetic taking insulin. I haven't had a problem since. If your meds work for you, take them. I wouldn't worry about what other posters think. It's their right NOT to medicate and to question us, and it's our right to shrug and ignore them. Do I care if somebody thinks bipolar doesn't exist..or autism? Not a bit. Do I care if they think they have the answer, such as correcting serotonin and dopamine? They can think what they want. I know there has been nothing proven and look forward to the day when they finally do reach a consensus that "cures" people! ARE YOU LOST??? APOLOGIZING???

REALITY AND CREW ARE ALL TOGETHER, POSSIBLY ONE AND THE SAME,

YOU STOLE OUR FORUM FOR YOUR CRAP.

REALITY'S FAVORITE POST.... RITALIN CAUSES SUICIDE.

bugzappers38672.7652199074

Curus is a person obviously trying out for a job in homeopathic propaganda writing (which is primarily cut-and-paste), a job at the anti-med websites (again using deft cut, paste and alter) or with a lobbying group from texas looking to snatch all meds that aren't totally safe (like water - oh wait that's bad too) from our ignorant grasps.

I'm sure the postings here are going to fill curus' resume to the brim with propagandic goodness. Oh - wait WE are the propagandists!! Why - we are all paid by the pharmaceutical conspiracy!! Hey - I've never received my first paycheck - how about you fallen?

BTW - I like your new pic. Creepy - yet sublime.

So no naked pictures?

Seems a little unfair to tease everyone like that.

Shame on you.
Yes, curus has written, on the regular board, that she is a 19 year old college student. I have to think something is wrong here. I've raised three kids to 19 and none would have wanted to spam an ADHD board for fun :/ They were busy with school and friends at 19. Don't let a 19 year old tell you what to do, although, of course, most 19 years old still think they know it all [QUOTE=GlenW]

BTW - I like your new pic. Creepy - yet sublime.

[/QUOTE] If this is the best she can do to recommend herself, she will never get a job and we'll have her posting here endlessly forever......ahhhhhhhhhhhhhh!

19 years old?

Is curus hot?

I didnt read her stuff because it wasnt her stuff.

If she decided to use her brain rather than her copy and paste skills I might be interseted. If she posted hot college girl pics of herself I'd probably pay more attention

[QUOTE=psm0904]Yes, curus has written, on the regular board, that she is a 19 year old college student. I have to think something is wrong here. I've raised three kids to 19 and none would have wanted to spam an ADHD board for fun :/ They were busy with school and friends at 19. Don't let a 19 year old tell you what to do, although, of course, most 19 years old still think they know it all [/QUOTE]

I believe that it may have been YOU that started the rumor that I was a 19 year old college student? I know more than three kids who have been raised to 19, none of which would have wanted to waste their time spamming an ADHD board by posting false messages about the ages of people they don't know for fun :/ Those 19's were far to mature to assume they knew it all particularly about people they'd never met

I am not 19 and while I was once a student, I no longer am.