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buddy, my heart goes out to you! As a parent, if I were in your shoes I would do a google search on anti-social disorder, behavior disorder and one on tough love. I would see what they all have to say, whether there is anything I could try that I haven't, etc. It sounds like you have tried it all but it won't hurt to be sure.

The psych's were both telling you to use a tough love approach on him, but if you do a search on it, there may be some good advice about ways you can use tough love and still protect him from the likes of Hannibal. You certainly have nothing to lose by checking it out.

I will pray for you to find the best way to help him. I wouldn't just throw my kid out the door either, even if it meant tying him to his bed for years! I might go to jail for it but my kid would be safe until then! Maybe there is some way you could get him in one of those "whatever doesn't kill me can only make me stronger" type programs. Since he is 18, you would need his psychologist to get involved as you would probably need a court order or something but it just might wise him up without putting him in the danger kicking him out would. It seems like the psych would agree to give it a try since you are low on options.

Hang in there buddy! There must be a psych who uses our boards and hopefully they will have some possibilities for you. My reply shoud boost this up so they will have a chance to see it!   Barb

My baby brother and I both have ADHD. I think the psych's are both right. Make your son responsable for his actions, hold him accountable. ADHDers often have difficulty understanding the consequences of what we do and if we do understand, we may not know what to fix. Be your child's advocate by understanding his disorder but do not let it be an excuse for his actions.

Your son most likely does need to fall flat on his face and hit rock solid bottom or he will never learn. Although every one's "bottom" that they hit is different, my little brother had to go to jail before he quit doing drugs and concentrated on graduation from high school, I was failing college for the third time. My dad? Well, he has been arrested many times, is an alcoholic to boot and was homeless (with my two brothers still in high school and living with them) for about 4 years out of the last 6, evicted from 2 houses for not paying morgages, his wife is leaving him tomorrow to move into an appartment and he still can't figure out why all these bad things are happening to him... he has not hit his bottom yet. The more you do for him the less he will learn.

Besides, you are letting him stay with you and you already know what his response is to that, try kicking him out and see if he rises to the challange. Give him the information on how to find a job, explain how to look for a place for him to live on his own, but don't do it for him. He may gain alot of self-worth and pride in his accomplishments if he does these these on his own.

Your son is also an adult now. You say he does not want help. There is nothing more you can do. He may have to go to prision! By allowing him to continue to use you for food and shelter but disobaying the rules and guidelines you set you are enabling his behavior. I can almost guarantee that he will not change if you continue to try to protect him from the ramifications of his actions. You also say he cannot cope with prision life but he can obviously cope with the life that leads him there. Have you let him know the cold hard facts about what happens to most people in prision?

You have not turned your back on him, you sound like a very concerned parent with a troubled son. At this point there is little you can do because he is no longer a minor, so I don't think you can enroll him in boot camp if he does not want to go.

I guess the biggest thing you have to do is... well I think the serenity prayer summs it up:

"God, grant me the Serenity
To Accept the things I cannot change...
Courage to change the things I can,
And Wisdom to know the difference."

This has helped me understand my role better in many situations.

Also here some websites that may help you gain greater insight into his condition:

http://www.cdc.gov/ncbddd/adhd/peer.htm

http://www.chadd.org/fs/fs2.htm

http://www.help4adhd.org/en/systems/legal/justice

Above all else, tell him you love him unconditionally, regardless of what he does. You may be disgusted by his actions but you love him and want the best for him. I'm betting he has VERY low self esteem right now and needs some parental love and guidance. Then tell him you love him again, and again, and again.

I too will pray for you and your family. I know that it is difficult now and I cannot begin to understand the pain you must feel. If nothing else, I will pray that you find peace in whatever decision you choose.

Barb mentioned tough love. After the first therapist dropped him we felt that he was referring to this approach and that was the way we handled it. But the second guy was clearly talking about protecting us and getting on with our lives. He felt the only hope was for our son to seek help when he was ready. Lizzy mentioned self-esteem. He had too much as a young child and none after entering school. An effect of his adhd was that he had to be the best in the class, average was not good enough. With a little effort he could get C’s but A’s were out of reach. We were always happy with average grades but he wasn’t, so after a little while he would quit doing any work at all. The next year he would start off great and within a month would quit again. The same thing happened with his social life at school. He had to be the most popular kid in school, but the adhd made that difficult too so he would be depressed. So of course he fell in with the losers and was typecast from that point. I can understand his objections to leaving this group because they are all he has. So he has never had any self-esteem. This is something that we have always known and tried to work with. The stress of school became too much for him and on the advice of therapist and  family doctor he was allowed to quit in eleventh grade. He took his GED and passed it easily. Presently he is in court ordered boot camp for 90 days. They have all these rules about talking and how to behave, but he comes home and says he was joking with the instructor and they don’t really follow the rules and that they said he could be a group leader and so on. This has been the first week and it sounds like school all over again. Next will come the phone call saying that he doesn’t understand the rules and can we help to explain it to him, then they will punish him and he’ll lose his temper and off to jail he’ll go. He often says his life is a mess and he is going to straighten it out, but cannot lift one finger to help himself. He reacts with I don’t care and what have I got to lose. He cannot see past today and I am afraid that he will do something that will get him 10 years not to mention hurting someone else.

We had a somewhat similar situation when our son got involved with drugs (age 21). After he left the rehab hospital he wanted to move back in with us.

We attended Alanon (support group for family of addicts, similar to AA). One of the themes that is consistant is that we cannot enable the person with the problem. If you do things to make their incorrect choices easier to live with, they continue to make them. We realized that if our son was going to end up in jail or dead, it would happen with or without our help. It was tough to face up to that, but it was the truth.

People will not change unless they decide they want to. By forcing him to try to support himself and live on his own, he fortunately realized much more quickly that he needed help.

We let him know that we always would love him, no matter what. But that for him to be in the house even to visit, there were some expectations. In our case the expectations were that he was going to Narcotics/Alcoholics Anonymous meetings and that he was staying "clean". He had to dress and speak in an appropiate manner (no druggie/thug/ganster talk). We still did not give him money for anything for quite sometime. He finally did get his life together and is now employed, going to church, and has completed college.

Not all stories turn out this way. But if something terrible happens, it will happen even if you enable him. In fact, the longer you enable someone, the longer they will keep doing or not doing something.  

Also, I would not be surprised if there are drugs involved with your son. Not an indictment at all (been there, done that), it just sounds like the pieces may fit.

I highly recommend talking to other people who have had similar situations (such as in groups like AlAnon).

God bless you and your loved ones. You are in our prayers.

Chazinmo38199.281724537I have been lurking on this list for some time now. I am the parent of a child with adhd and I need the advice of some experts. I’m not interested in talking to the other parents, as they seem as lost as I am. We have known about his adhd since he was 6, he is 18 now, and has been on and off meds and is now on adderall. Doctors and therapists say he is a “classic” adhd case. Last fall he refused to go to the therapist anymore so I went myself to catch up on things. The doctor explained that he did not want any help nor did he want to change any of his behaviors. He was not interested in learning ways to cope with adhd. He very strongly advised that we let him go on his own in order to find out for himself how the world worked and that he needed some help to cope. He has always been eager to work and has had several jobs but can’t keep them for long. He has fallen in with a bad crowd and will go with whatever they do. I explained that to the therapist and he said let him get fired, let him go to jail. I could not do this so we continued to help and things got steadily worse. Finally he left and within a month was living on the street and getting arrested on a regular basis. He lost his car and license and every thing he owned. In tears he asked to come back home and of course we welcomed him. This time he suggests therapy and we find a new doctor and back on the meds. We have great hopes, but! He is still running with the same kids and getting into trouble. Now he is on house arrest and indefinite probation and has thousands in fines to pay and again no job. Last night the therapist calls us in and lays it out for us. He cannot help for the same reasons as the first guy couldn’t. Our son doesn’t want any help and is just using us for a roof over his head and dinner. His advice is to get him out of our house as soon as possible and just walk away. He claims that it will take a life shattering experience to convince our son to change. We know that he is not able to support himself and that the kids he runs with will take from him anything that we give him. With his probation he will end up in jail very quickly and cannot cope with prison life. This therapist claims anti-social behavior disorder and adhed. On top of this he brought his ‘best friend’ to therapy and the doctor says that kid is a classic sociopath. He compared him to Hannibal Lector. He said that we are not helping him grow and that we would do the right thing by walking away. Advice by two so-called experts who completely agree and have not talked to each other nor have we told the second one what the first had said. Pretty convincing, but what do they know and how could I turn my back on him. I know that there is a good kid in there. Setting rules won’t work as we do have the basic ones plus we won’t let him go out to dinner with Hannibal, but he will lie to be with his friends and I am the first to admit that we have no control over him at all. I am at the very end and need your help please. buddy38198.6547453704Wow buddy, I feel for you.  I don't think I really have much advice but wanted you to know I was praying for your family.  As the parent of an 8 and 4 year old I haven't had to deal with teenagers yet.  My son (8) is ADHD and the verdict on my daughter (4) is still not in.  She has sensory integration dysfunction but there is more to it than that we just haven't figured out exactly what it is yet.  I fear for the days when they can make their own decisions.  I can only think of one person I know who was like your son.  He may or may not have ADHD or something else but his parents bailed him out of every problem he ever had.  He is nothing but an alcoholic and good for nothing now.  I think if he had been made to face up to his own problems instead of being bailed out of every problem his life might have turned out differently.  I know it is a parents instinct to protect their children even when they are adults.  But, we are also supposed to let them go, let them grow up.  Sometimes that isn't easy to do especially when they make bad choices.  I think you know especailly with the advice of 2 experts what you need to do.  The question is do you have the strength to do it.  I honesly don't know what I would do in your place.  My thoughts are with your family.

I thought for sure that most replies would be to not abandon him. I expected to hear that some one was abandoned by their parents and it wrecked their life. I can see by his attitude that your are right to advise me to let him go, but my heart is broken. We planned for this child and gave him every advantage in life. Well I still can’t just quit. I’ll have to get through this probation thing and probably rent him an apartment so his friends can party in and get thrown out in the street and then try to say no. Thanks very much for your help and prayers. I know it’s tough to deal with adhd in your lives, but don’t forget your families.

Buddy,

I'm goint to tell it to you straight.  It sounds like you are taking responsibility for your son's difficulties.  Youre mistakes during parenting, by not teaching discipline and responsibility certainly has contributed to his current problems.  ADD kids need a very controlled and disciplined and structured life, and teaching consequences are very important.  Following through with your punishment is very, very important and it looks like youve not been able to hold up your end of being a responsible parent.  You are right, its not fair at this point to change the rules and throw him out on his ass with no compassion, when you are paritally responsible for his behavior.  We are a product of our parenting to a very lrg degree.

I would try to draw the line with force, but do it gently.  Don't let him go to Prison, this may destroy him.  Give him love, but no money or means of getting his drugs. And tell him he can't stay at your house if he is going to use drugs or drink.  You don't have to completely disown him, for him to hit bottom. 

I'm saying all this because I was in your son's postion, and I came out of it with out my parents resorting to the radical bottom-line your psychiatrist have urged you to execute.

 

I've kind of been in a warped reversal of what you're going through, Buddy. My father asked for my money over and over again from the time I was 16. My parents had co-signed my checking account and had unlimited access to it and my father stole thousands of dollars from me. He took advantage fo the fact that I could not balance my checkbook and repetedly told me that my over drawn checks were a result of my faulty math. They pawned my television when I went away for the weekend. He told me I owed it to him to pay him X amount of money since he had given me so much as a child. And then he wasted that money on trying to get rich quick. I readily gave him everything I had because I continued to tell myself that he will be making money for himself soon, and that I was being helpful. I lent him my car (because the other two cars were impounded for no insurance) which he got impounded because he lied and said that he had a valid drivers lisence. He did/does not. I paid to get it out.  My father sent me to a private college because he said he would pay for it. He was my daddy, I believed every word he said. I am now ,000 in debt and had to declare bankrupcy on the rest of the college tuition that I could not get loans to cover. The really sick part of all this is that my parents made such a meager income while I was in college that the government would have paid for all of it, but my father had not done his taxes in the last 7 years, and still would not do them even though I told him it would mean getting college paid for. He said he had more important things to do than his taxes. Oh yes, and my first week at college my parents were evected from their house and I spent 3 months not being able to contact them. My father said that he had more important things to worry about than calling me. I found a loving (hard working) wonderful man who I plan to spend the rest of my life with and my father writes me an e-mail saying that I am a bad person for living with him before marriage and he cannot understand how I could want to be with a mexican. I stopped talking to him at this point. I stopped giving him any money. He called me ungrateful. I told him he needed to do soem changing because his youngest son was doing drugs and he said that's ok because he did drugs when he was young and he turned out OK. I cannot explain the betrayl that I felt from the man I worshiped as a child. I gave and gave until it hurt. My father is unwelcome in our home and my brothers will be walking me down the isle when I get married. My mother is finally leaving him after years and years of codependancy. They have been homeless since 1998 (I have younget brothers 5 and 6 years younger than myself) and my mother got sick of it and found her own place.

This story helps illistrate what I had to go through to finally say no. Someone has to hit bottom and I sincerely hope that you do not throw away money on a dream that you can change someone. HE HAS TO WANT TO CHANGE FOR HIMSELF. Chaz said Alanon may help and I believe it will. You raised your son the best you knew how and now LET IT GO.

If you break a toy as a child and you always get a new one, why in the world would you stop breaking them when you were tired of them? You are cleaning up after your sons messes time and time again. I tell you from expirence that when he cries, it is now sorrow. I have heard the same sob story from a ADHDer in his 50's who refuses to take responsability. I've heard the "I want to be better" story too many times. If you want to be better, DO IT. If your son want's to change he will and obviously he does not right now.

You bear tremendous guilt for the way your son turned out and I am sorry for that. Regardless of your parenting skills, I'm sure that you did not teach him to be an intrusive, ungreatful, a**. This is behavior that he learned on his own and embraces. IT IS NOT YOUR FAULT. I may also be so brave as to suggest you yourself could use some counceling?

Although most of us that have responded disagree with your decision, I realize that you, like your son, will do as you see fit regardless of others suggestions. Tough love is not easy for any party. But I wanted you to know I have been in a situation that mirrors yours in some respects and I can relate. I wanted you to at least hear my unabridged story to add to the information you use to create your decision.

lizzy38200.9896643519mmmm funny place to post  if you dont want us parents to respond - but we really are the experts you know Rae7038201.1222222222He is probably telling himself he is good at NOTHING. Take
him out toplaces that will help find what he does enjoy and is
able to do. I am a woman, 37 yrs, and I have ADHD. Academic
stuff takes longer to learn and has to be explained to me.
Creative stuff is like second nature ( I am doing a Degree in
Textile Design). Your son has to find what he feels he is good
at and has to have the freedom in his mind to find out. We do
need structure, so that could take oin lots of different disguises,
for example it may be that all you need to do is take him to a
gallery where there is sculpture, or he may be more into
graphic design (I find using a computer a doddle, and Mac is
easier to use for artists that PC) A few basic lessons to use a
particular program and he can be creating magazine layouts
etc. This may or may not sound trivial to you in the great
scheme of things, but I believe that you have to get to the route
of the problem, which is not he bad behavior, but more about
his self esteem. He doesn't realise he is woth more than he is
giving himself credit for. There must be something he did, or
was interested in, as a young child that he was drawn to
naturally? What was the THING that he would like to do and
would forget about the world around him? Mine was drawing,
or looking under rocks at the beech, or climbing over ruins and
feeling the history (England Glastonbury). I chose the art/
design route, but he might be into anything from Hiking and
camping to rock climbing etc. I hope you understand what I am
saying. He needs to feel worth the space he is taking up on this
earth, and through his eyes only. Yes it matters to him that he
is letting you down, but if he has no respect for himself then it is
near impossible to respect other people. Satisfaction from my
abilities is priority to me because if all else fails I have that to
comfort me and tells me that I am not the failure I think I am. My
week times are every month (PMS) but I doubt he has those
problems, though I have to say that men have a biological
make up too so ruling out anything is not good.

If you feel you need a fresh start too then I feel I should mention
that you could move house. Yes, huge thing to do but planning
the move with your son may help get the wheel in motion and
feels he is being included. And yes, there should be some
ground rules as far as drugs and police are concerned but if he
starts a new life that shows him the contrast of the old one, all
he will want to do is move forward. I can sabbotage my own
goals, for me it is a monthly pattern that I have to remember is
happening. maybe there is a cycle of some sort with your son
that is more related to mens biological make-up. The main
problem is self worth so if you can tackle that it's a start. ADHD
people get bored easily so a change of scenerey like days out
to a colourful, slightly busy place can distract us from the
boredom. I think colour therapy has a lot of good things to offer
too. It helps autism (fibre optic lights) and can make a space
look magical and inviting, and calming.

I hope this is useful. And all the best and I hope things work out
for you. If you feel you want to, let me know how it goes.