Using ADHD meds to enhance performance? | ADHD Information

[QUOTE=Marketing Rat]you moron,[/QUOTE]

You ARE stressed, aren't you.

Perhaps you should consider career and life choices more suited to your own intelligence and stamina?

I stick by my opinion of obtaining Adderall under false pretenses.

I also stick by my opinion of you as someone who didn't get her ring kissed in the right way and got angry. An opposing opinion in a forum, go figure.

You may continue thinking whatever you like about me, you have shown so far that your opinion isn't worth my respect.

I think I'm done.

Hey floof - I disagree.

Wordwoman, I think you are on to something.

Think about this: the more normal people are medicated to "enhance performance" or otherwise try to trump human nature or biology with drugs, the more normal behavior will become abnormal. It will become the norm to accomodate demanding jobs or inbalanced lives or workaholism with prescribed drugs.

Think about how we deal with aging and crooked teeth: it's becoming abnormal for people to age naturally without the aid of surgery, creams and potions. It is considered unconscionable for people to have crooked teeth. If you as a parent do not get braces for your kids, it's just about considered child abuse!

The days of prescribing drugs strictly for performance enhancement is not too far down the road, I think. Corporations, not just pharmaceutical companies, would probably lobby Congress to enable it so they could get more, more, more out of their employees.

OK. Cool. Go drug it up. If you don't dig disagreement, stay out of discussion forums. And with those anger management problems showing in this post quoted below, it is my opinion you shouldn't do uppers. Ooops! There I go pissing you off again with an opinion, pray let me try again.

Anything you utter is true and unarguable.

I'd advise though, if not being too pretentious to advise one so wise, that you also drug up for your b itch. Prevailing medical opinion holds that the B itches are the worst. Drugs are the answer, twit.

[QUOTE=Marketing Rat]Resistance,

"A temporary fix for extraordinary circumstances..."

Gee, that sounds alot like something I said earlier in the first post that you allegedly read:

"Even though the healthy solution is to acheive a better work/life balance, I could really use something to help me make it through this difficult period."

So, are you "disagreeing with yourself" or just being a contentious asshole? I anxiously await some whiny "I have ADHD" defense.

Hmmmm.... Also, I'd prefer not to be lectured on "prevailing medical opinion" by some jackass who jumps on this thread to provide unfounded criticism when its pretty obvious he doesn't even read the material.

You know what "prevailing medical opinion" most likely is? BUY THESE PILLS SO I CAN AFFORD TO PAY MY INSURANCE PREMIUMS. Let's not forget, medicine is a business folks.

To everyone else who has contributed input to this thread, I'm sorry you had to read this, but this guy is getting on my nerves. Hopefully he'll go elsewhere.

[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Marketing Rat]Hi All,
Thanks for continuing to chime in after I berated that other guy a bit. Sorry if that seemed too harsh to anyone, but I came to here to get people's honest opinions about this idea (even if they do disagree), and I'm not interested in blog-trolling jerks like "Resistance".
[/QUOTE]

And whew boy do I ever feel berated. Feeling burnout over this protracted intellectual combat.....need....performance.....enhancement........

I disagreed with what you had already decided for yourself was the right thing to do and you went all ballistic. Just rubbed your apparently huge ego the wrong way didn't I?

[QUOTE=Marketing Rat]I anxiously await some whiny "I have ADHD" defense.

[/QUOTE]

I'm surprised this one was let slide by on this board.

I'd take a swing at it but you have become boring - <whiny voice> I have a short attention span </whiny voice>

<mutters> you self-rightgeous self-important .........no, no.</muttering>

For once I have to agree with Resistance on this one. Using adderall in this manner is really kindof risky. This is not like taking asparin or caffiene. For example, Adderall raises my blood pressure by 20 points on both scales. So instead of 130/70 it's 145/90 or so. That's not a good thing long term. In fact, I have some pretty bad inattentive ADD, but I take it only when absolutely necessary. If not taking Adderall will ruin your life, then take it, but to *enhance* your life?

Everyone knows that steroids can improve athletic performance. You'll die of brain cancer at 45, but you'll be a world class athelete when you're 25. Worth it? I think not. Sometimes to find happiness, we have to let go of our vanity. You can be better at what you do for a short period, but there may be a cost that is difficult to measure at this time. People always want to improve, there is no level of performance that can satisy a person until they make the decision to be satisfied. You need to be *better* at what you do? Why?

[QUOTE=taritac]

Wordwoman, I think you are on to something.

[/QUOTE]

Wordwoman, nice to see you back. Missed you!

Tartitac and Wordwoman,

I think you guys are right. And once every "normal" is on the enhancers then competition will be leveled, companies will expect even more (after all they were able to keep up using the enhancers) and then they will have to find another "better enhancer" to get the upper edge and before we know it we'll have a bunch of brains that don't have a working cell left. And I predict, if this is the case the life span of these "new enhanced robots" will be shortened by years.

Marketingrat, If you do get on Adderall and they help, I predict you will never get off as long as you are in a high pressure job or until you keel over dead. There is, afterall, just so much a body can take. I am really concerned about you.

BTW: Resistance is not a Troll and I happen to like him very much and I respect someone who speaks their mind.

The lines between "curing a disorder" and "enhancing performance" are going to continue to blur, IMHO. I just read about a new "disorder" that has to do with people not being able to adapt to night work: "shift work sleep disorder." This used to be called "human nature." Then, Provigil was developed. It's taboo (and illegal) to medicate human nature. Hence, a disorder was constructed, otherwise, this would be a drug that could not be widely prescribed. Drugs are ok in our society as long as they "cure" something -- so naturally, disorders will continue to proliferate as new drugs are developed. I don't think this is evil. I just think it's silly. Why don't we just cut to the chase? Why should Adderall only be for the ADDled? Why should memory-enhancing drugs only be for people with an official Alzheimer's diagnosis? In 20 years the debate will seem quaint -- more and more "normal" people are going to clamor for performance enhancing meds as more and more are developed, and the reasons for denying them are going to seem more and more specious. By the way, I "really" do have ADHD (big time) and am as outraged as anyone who think ADHD doesn't "exist." But I'm still betting that the concept that "medication" is only for "disorders" is going to change significantly within our lifetimes.
Wordwoman38720.9007638889

I think that if people take Adderal for a different reason than to treat a condition like ADD or ADHD, then they are opening the door to abuse.

I just watched a program on TV about LSD, Heroine, etc and how those drugs became illegal. Years ago, they were once used as psychotic drugs and perscribed by doctors!! I was amazed!

Anyway, I guess what I am saying here is that if we end up abusing our ADD drugs, they could get outlawed too, and that would be too bad for those of us that struggle and need this medication.

(Of course there is always crawling !)

[QUOTE=Marketing Rat]Does anyone have any opinions on using Adderall as a performance enhancer?[/QUOTE]
Jess, are these students getting prescriptions from physicians? If not, it is illegal and makes life harder for people who need the meds for medical conditions. I also worry about the potential for abuse. I know middleaged body builders who are suffering from their steroid use from years ago.

[QUOTE=Marketing Rat]

Does anyone have any opinions on using Adderall as a performance enhancer? Also, does anyone think that I may be developing adult ADD/ADHD, or is it more likely that I'm simply stressed and under too much pressure?

I appreciate your insight, I'm very new to all this.

Best regards, ~ Jess[/QUOTE]

Just my opinion: My guess would be that you're under too much pressure; I think most of us with ADD have had problems since we were kids. If you really don't have ADD and you are under so much pressure, I think it would be better to concentrate on finding ways to lighten your load than to rely on such a serious medication to get you through it. Also doesn't it affect people differently if they don't have ADD? Anyone out there know the answer to this?

I've read that a lot people develop ADD (especially inattenive type ADD) later in life. I don't know personally because the problems I have, I've had for as long as I can remember. I would go to your doctor and get it checked out, maybe you have developed ADD and need medication.

More likely though, it sounds like you're just burnt out at work. If that's the case try taking a vacation, look at your work in a different way, or maybe even think about making a career change. But taking medication for something you don't have just so you can advance at work is out of the question.

First of all, it's dangerous. You could end up doing yourself serious damage and making your life a lot worse than it is now. And second, it's unethical. No doctor is going to perscribe a medication for somethng you don't have. If he does, he's violating his oath as a doctor, he's violating the law, and he's going to lose his license. It's not fair for you to ask somebody to something like that so you can advance at work.

If you do have ADD, by all means, get the treatment you need. But if you don't have ADD, then don't go messing around with narcotics like Adderall.
Hi Gang,

Thanks for your input and the links posted (MindTools was pretty neat, thanks Cynthia!).

To the folks who have suggested changing jobs - I'm right there with ya! I've actually been interviewing with another company for the last three weeks and am expecting a yea or nay at the end of January (fingers crossed!). But, in the meantime, I'm still obligated to fulfill a tremendous duty to my current employer, as well as running a small business on the side with a former colleague that has its own set of demands.

IMac, to answer your question, my understanding is that these students are going to physicians or psychiatrists after taking the Adderall.com "Adult ADD Screener" and answering "yes" to the questions. So far I know of no one who's been turned down. Today I actually got a psychiatrist referral from a friend who describes his doc as a "pill pusher" - not sure I want to work with this guy, but I took his number anyway. We talked about what I should say, how I should position my interest in this medication, and of course that I should bring the Adderall.com screener with me. I'm pretty "by the book" in general, so I'm not interested in black market stuff or anything like that. Plus, if this ends up being something I want to do, I'm going to need professional advice to find the correct dose (I think?).

I also totally agree with you about the threat of eventual illegalization due to rampant abuse; however, I will say that after taking the Adderall screener I did answer "Often" to many of the questions. Whether these responses are caused by actual ADHD or are just the result of me being a burned out yuppie, I'm not sure at this point.

I'll keep you guys posted, thanks for dialogue!

Best, ~ JMarketing Rat38719.7496759259

I was diagnosed by a whole team of doctors - they made me go through a whole day of testing, and then they made me feel like a drug addict when they gave me my first prescription - so much so that I wouldn't use it - of course that was more than a decade ago.

I guess it's good that they've lightened up a little - atleast the one in twenty that really does have add can get their needs met now. As long as that's true, I really don't care if other people want to enhance their performance or not.

Actually, Auntie, someone recommended a neuropsyche in a suspicious way and it was easy to find charges, fines and temporary loss of licence. He did fulfill his probation (had to go back to school for a while) and is back in practice. He was giving out some pretty heavy duty stuff to people who had problems.

Jess, my assessment took two and one half hours and he didn't even need to read my school report cards / transcripts. My son spent more time doing aptitude tests to rule out LDs.

Jess, I was 4.0 in college also, but on my own, in my own business, I had great ideas and I'm a fantastic entrenpreneur, but I couldn't keep my business organized at all. It took me years to get the problems fixed. Little things like filing the invoices that seem to make so much sense and be so simple to others was difficult to me.

Sometime with ADD you can be extremely successful if you have channels, someone telling you what you need to do (like in school) but when you have to govern yourself, and come up with your own organizations or projects, you put things off, you procrastinate, you jump from one thing to another.

I found Adderal really helped me for a while. Then the dry mouth bugged me so much. I tried herbs and then Concerta. Herbs helped, but Concerta made me feel really down.

I have had much success with the exercises from the book Stopping ADHD by O'Dell.

Whatever you decide, be honest with your doctor. He or she can diagnose ADD and ADHD.

Yu don't want to take drugs to get you through college if you don't need them. There are many books out there that will give you an edge for studying without taking medication you don't need.

If you do have ADHD or ADD, don't feel bad about taking drugs or trying other things to help yourself. It is a different world.

[QUOTE=Marketing Rat]Greetings,

Earlier today a good friend suggested that I go on Adderall. He is studying at a top ten law school and said that virtually all his classmates are taking this drug as a performance enhancer to help them push through the grind. Even though the healthy solution is to acheive a better work/life balance, I could really use something to help me make it through this difficult period.

Does anyone have any opinions on using Adderall as a performance enhancer? Also, does anyone think that I may be developing adult ADD/ADHD, or is it more likely that I'm simply stressed and under too much pressure?

I appreciate your insight, I'm very new to all this.

Best regards, ~ Jess[/QUOTE]

Seriously, people are getting it prescribed just to enhance their performance? Seriously????

Auntie38718.9610763889hey marketing rat ----
i would change your job to one where you don't have an eejit for a manager and they give you a more decent life/work balance.

exactly what are you slaving away for there, again?????? and considering taking adderall for yourself or for whom?

you seem to me to be extremely fortunate in having a brain that works almost to perfection (hah! how typical not to value what you already got) --- in that case i would use it to change damn jobs rather than bugger it up with adderall etc. which, if you are not ADD you have a small possibility of getting addicted to aswell.

god blessed you with a great brain. a sane brain! not one that tries to kill you at every given opportunity, or one that deliberately self-sabotages. or makes you one of the most annoying, socially inept, irritating, misery-causing, forgetful, useless wastes of space around.

why would you want to tamper with that! don't you realise how lucky you are!!!!!!???????

i have no problem with people using drugs for performance enhancement either but in your case, i would say putting yourself on Adderall so that you can become a more efficient middle manager is kinda ridiculous... go for it if you want but doesn't it seem sort of warped to you. lots of people have done it in the past with cocaine et al and it didn't do them that much harm - but me, no! i don't get the mentality somewhere.... you are perfectly sane, you work hard, you are reliable and decent and clever and responsible but somewhere that is not enough so you need to take performance enhancing drugs to become an even more efficent middle manager ---- ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaaaaaaaa! man, talk about company loyalty. i can't wait till i own my own company and have people putting themselves on performance enhancing drugs (at their own cost, of course) just to increase my profits. what joy. it pleases me just to think about it.

i'm glad i am not the only nuts one around here! and i thought you 'normals' were the sane ones? its all good tho. do what you want.
chjones38719.2361921296Marketing Rat - it sounds like you may be suffering from burn out which would be like having ADHD except that all you need to do is take a vacation.

www.scs.tamu.edu/selfhelp/elibrary/burn_out.asp

www.mindtools.com/stress/Brn/BurnoutSelfTest.htm
Greetings,

First off, best wishes to everyone struggling with this problem, its been interesting reading about the struggles of people with ADD/ADHD - I didn't realize how bad this disease can be, you guys are alot tougher than me.

My situation is that I do not believe that I have ADHD (though I could be wrong). I was a 4.0 student in college, regularly spend hours in focused reading and studying, and am fortunate to have a great social life that comes from high self-confidence.

So, overall I'm a fortunate person, but I'm at a point at work where my workload has exceeded my capacity, and I'm doing extremely detail-oriented tasks that I often feel personally disconnected from while I'm working (in other words, some of the sh*t I do is a bit dull and I can't get into it). While much of my work is tedious, the rest of it is incredibly intellectually taxing, so I often have to jump from "boring data mode" into "brilliant presenter/sales person/strategist mode" and I'm not doing well. I'm stressed out, under very poor management and am generally "under the gun". I find myself forgetting details lately, tuning out of conversations and being generally absent-minded. As someone who's always been "on top of it" this is really freaking me out.

Earlier today a good friend suggested that I go on Adderall. He is studying at a top ten law school and said that virtually all his classmates are taking this drug as a performance enhancer to help them push through the grind. Even though the healthy solution is to acheive a better work/life balance, I could really use something to help me make it through this difficult period.

Does anyone have any opinions on using Adderall as a performance enhancer? Also, does anyone think that I may be developing adult ADD/ADHD, or is it more likely that I'm simply stressed and under too much pressure?

I appreciate your insight, I'm very new to all this.

Best regards, ~ Jess

I do have add and have had it all my life but, honestly, I have no problem with people taking the medication if they don't have it and it helps them. I really don't.

As an adult, I think you just need to consider all of the factors and make a decision that makes sense for your life.

However, I would only take it with a doctor's supervision because it does have the potential to cause serious side effects in some people.

Thank you for the replies! I'm definitely going to check out Stopping ADD, thanks for posting the title.

AnniD., I was intrigued by what you said about having difficulty with self governance once someone has left the structure of school. What makes me think that I may not have ADD/ADHD (and I truly hope I don't after reading about the struggles of other members) is that I have functioned very well without structure in the past. My college was highly unorthodox, no grades, school year-round, and I actually created a large portion of my curriculum that I was able to carry out on my own after department approvals. My first job out of school was as a marketing director for a small company where I was able to call my own shots, reported directly to the CEO and was judged mainly on revenue return (pretty odd for a marketer to be held to ROI). In my most recent position for the first time in my life I have a "manager" and am responsible for carrying out the directions (perhaps "whims" is more apt) of someone else. Its as if I can't become personally invested in the work because I feel my account team is headed off in the wrong direction due to poor management (couple this with a 65 hour work week and I think anyone is bound to crack?).

Given this circumstance I'm hoping that I'm neglecting details due to a mental block or personal conflict or some other neurosis :) So, I'm hoping that maybe Adderall will provide some kind of synthetic kick in the butt to get me over the hump until my situation changes (which will hopefully be soon!).

Regarding people taking these meds for enhancement, I agree that its pretty controversial. Its pretty dangerous to go tinkering around the neurochemistry (or that's my assumption) and over use of these meds by greedy yuppies like myself may lead to an erosion of positive perception about ADD/ADHD therapies in general.

Thanks guys, have a lovely evening!

Best, ~ JMarketing Rat38719.0377546296

Marketing Rat -

Let us know how adderral works for you. It would be interesting to hear.

Again, just to reiterate - at least some of us really don't care whether or not you take it just to help yourself perform more effectively - even if you don't have add. I'm not concerned that your taking it could change the perception of add therapies.

My only concern was that, for the sake of your health, you should get the medicine from a doctor and be monitored by a doctor.

[QUOTE=The Resistance!]If there were a safe daily performance enhancer for general use it would be the most popular drug ever made and we would all know its name.[/QUOTE]
It is called COFFEE. The founders of Starbucks said, "Build them and they will come."
I have been on a stimulant for ten years with no problems. Hey Resistance!

I hear you homie, but I do want to clarify, there's nothing "recreational" about the use of this stuff for me (if I end up taking it) or the people I know who are - trust me, I'd much rather not take anything. But, for kids in a 0K law school, my friend who works under extreme pressure fixing laser equipment, or myself who's struggling to manage clients worth in excess of B, anything that can help us out would be welcome.

Also, just my opinion! Marketing Rat38719.8428472222I still find it wrong. I'm not a Doctor though. I'd be interested in hearing what a doctor would say about the use of this type of drug for this purpose.
I seem to remember a specific warning on using Ritalin for energy enhancing purposes.
I'm tempted to say some thing like if you can't swing it without the drugs it isn't for you......but that would be a little hypocritical possibly. So let me say this: If you can't swing it without legitimatly obtained drugs, without what would be drug abuse at least technically, perhaps you should consider another avenue of work/study.
Now that was a little rough. The man's in burn-out, looking for another job, trying to maintain what he's got til he gets there. I've been through burn-out, and it's pretty awful. Don't judge until you've walked in his shoes. Think that's about all I have to say. ADHD is misunderstood enough already without packs of overburdened student yuppies in training picking up the medications for recreational/stimulant use.

If there were a safe daily performance enhancer for general use it would be the most popular drug ever made and we would all know its name.

My opinion. You may disagree
Hi Guys,

Antie, I don't have any firsthand experience to speak from, but I do definitely have one friend who has recieved a prescription for Adderall based on a very brief interview with answers that weren't entirely accurate - just learned this today and I've known him for years!

I myself haven't been through any assessments yet, but I do have a rudimentary understanding of pharmacuetical sales, and I'm not surprised that I've heard people say they've gotten meds with greater ease than they perhaps should have. In this instance, I think the pharma industry is as much to blame as anyone, thier marketing is second only to tobacco in lack of scruples (remember "FSAD," the made up disease?).

I'm loving the feedback, any info on health risks would be great. So far all I've seen online is long lists of drug interactions (I'm not taking anything else so I'm not terribly concerned about this) and "heart palpitations". Thanks! -J

I don't get this at all! If, in fact, psychiatrists just dole out prescriptions to whoever answers yes to the ADHD questions than rather than lining up at the gate to get my share I'd but turning them in! This is unbeleivable and I just find it hard to believe you are serious, Marketing Rat.

You don't need medication you need rest and the all mighty dollar IS NOT WORTH YOUR HEALTH. Sheesh, I keep thinking I heard everything and then someone blows my mind again.

I confess, I'm a bit confused by resistance to this idea. With minimal side effects, and a legally obtained prescription under a physician's guideance I'm not sure how this is "wrong".

I see this situation as being somewhat similar to the incredible proliferation of anti-depressants. After a few cocktails I had a manager once tell me that she had been on anti-depressants on and off for years solely to cope with the pressures of business. These situations are highly similar in that in both instances the fundamental problem is one of lifestyle, not biochemistry, yet in both instances there is a chemical "aid" - I hesitate to say solution, obviously. The ease with which people are prescribed anti-depressants is astonishing.

Regarding seeking another avenue of "work/study," this is not an option. I'm not in marketing for the money (if I were motivated by greed I'd be in finance, those people bank hard). Many people in this field, and many other fields, are willing to put up with the gruelling hours and sacrifice because we're simply fascinated by quantifying and effecting the outcomes of advertising efforts. Is there a better corporate environment out there? Most definitely, and I'm actively seeking out another position; however, I would gladly take this performance enhancer given that it is relatively safe and could have a marked impact on my work.

Thanks Cynthia, I appreciate the kind words; however, I'm actually a 26 year old woman!

When you experienced burn out, was there anything that helped you work through the situation? The support I got from friends helped a lot. In my case I waited too long to make a change in jobs and finally blew after my boss pushed me over the edge. I loved my job and refused to admit that I was up against more than I could handle even under better conditions.

Another thing is that burn out can cause depression, so that could be causing some of your lack of focus and reduced enthusiam also. It might be better to first check with a doctor to see if your depressed or not before you get get on a stimulant. That might actually be the answer, at least temporarily.

But other than that get out with friends and get your mind completely off of work. There's nothing like laughter and being around people who care. That's what held me together as long as I lasted. It is one of the easiest things to do. There are a lot of other things you can do, of course, like exercise or a hobby. I suggest you do start something like that also when you can.

It is difficult to dig out when you're there, but dig and dig as hard as you work -- for yourself.

[QUOTE=Marketing Rat]I confess, I'm a bit confused by resistance to this idea. With minimal side effects, and a legally obtained prescription under a physician's guideance I'm not sure how this is "wrong".
[/QUOTE]

It's not the same thing. I think. I object to workers/students getting Adderall under false pretenses because they think it helps their academic/work performance.

I'm replying, or started replying, to a very early post, maybe the first one.

Never read the whole thread, I am ADHD, not a student looking for a performance enhancer. I could have misunderstood.

Prevailing medical opinion can be wrong and has been wrong many, many times. But I think - and again I'm no doctor and you can disagree - that if you ask the medical community "can I have me some Adderall because I am stressed, overworked, burned out or whatever," that the medical community would say:

NO, that is a bad idea, there are better and more lasting and productive ways to approach a problem like this, UNLESS you are ADHD.

The Resistance!38719.9175462963

Coffee is considered unsafe and/or unhealthy by many, but not me!

What would an Adderall addiction do to a non-ADHD person?

I am certainly addicted to Ritalin, and many would be critical of me for this, I know this. But I was diagnosed by a doc and a shrink as a person who needed this stuff to even perform on a normal level. I suppose I could pop Ritalin and then enhance my performance with some Adderall. Hmmmmmm. I'm warming up to the idea............

[QUOTE=IMac] [QUOTE=The Resistance!]If there were a safe daily performance enhancer for general use it would be the most popular drug ever made and we would all know its name.[/QUOTE]
It is called COFFEE. The founders of Starbucks said, "Build them and they will come."
[/QUOTE]

Likening ADHD meds to anti-depressants is a little dangerous, I think. From what I understand, anti-depressants are not addictive, while ADHD stimulants have a high addiction factor. Also, stimulants can cause HEART ATTACKS, particularly if you have a pre-existing condition (even one that has no symptoms yet).

It is VERY disturbing to me that people can get these meds under false pretenses with just a short interview. I have been waiting 2 months to get an appointment with a psychologist who will be giving me a whole battery of tests for 4-6 hours.

I have heard that doctors will prescribe ADHD meds to people who are not ADHD and need a TEMPORARY boost in performance due to unforeseen circumstances. A friend of a friend is on ADHD meds without an ADHD diagnosis after her husband was suddenly shipped out to Iraq, leaving her with a toddler, a newborn, and a demanding job. She was overwhelmed to the point of exhaustion and depression, so her doctor prescribed Adderall to get her over the hump.

Perhaps you should ask your doc for a similar type of treatment-- a temporary fix for extraordinary circumstances.

A temporary fix for extraordinary circumstances sounds much better to me.

wait...........am I disagreeing with myself?

take drugs to improve performance??

duh thats the whole point!!!!

At least with some people, brain imagess displaying brain activity in different parts of the brain appear different for people with add, and this difference can appear "corrected" (to look more like a nonadd brain image) with the add medication. It can be similar for depression.

Adderral makes many people sleepy at first, then after a few days starts working most effectively.

If you're going to see a doctor, the doctor will probably test your blood pressure and ask some questin related to heart risk. For health risk, I'd really rely on the doctor and be very honest with that part of the evaluation. There have been occurrences of young people having heart attacks - although I don't know of any personally.

Adderral effects many people differently. Even people with add often try more than one stimulant before they find the right one for them.

TheDog38720.4137152778Hey-

It sounds like you are looking for some medical advice about possible
harmful effects of taking Adderall, before you approach a doctor.

I'm no expert, so please don't read the following as The Truth (TM), but
this is how I currently understand the situation.

(apologies to others for the uber-long post).

Consider three situations:

*A typical (i.e. 'normal') person who becomes depressed and takes an
antidepressant
*A person with ADD/ADHD taking ADD/ADHD drugs
*A 'normal' person taking ADD/ADHD drugs.

Case 1:

In the case of the typical person who becomes depressed, their brain is
physically okay, but their brain chemistry is out of whack. By taking anti-
depressants or going to therapy they return their brain chemistry to
normal. They can then keep it normal by doing normal, everyday things.

Case 2:

In the case of a person who has ADD/ADHD it seems fairly likely that
there are some physical problems with the brain- in particular, with how
different parts of the brain are connected to each other. As a result, the
brain chemistry isn't typical either. In this case, taking ADD/ADHD drugs
can compensate for the physical problems, temporarily. It does this by
changing the brain chemistry in various ways.

Because ADD/ADHD brain chemistry isn't typical in the first place, the way
ADD/ADHD drugs change the brain chemistry of people with ADD/ADHD
isn't typical either. Certain drugs affect ADD/ADHD brains differently than
other brains. ADDers are effectively taking a 'different' drug than people
without ADD/ADHD, because of this.

Case 3:

The case of a normal person taking ADD/ADHD drugs, or other drugs for
that matter, is more similar to the first case, where the person becomes
depressed. In both cases, the person has a physically normal brain but is
altering it chemically.

In the case of the normal, ADD/ADHD drug taking person, they are
chemically altering the brain in a way that can only be maintained by
taking the drug. This is different from the depression case, where the
person can maintain the brain by doing normal everyday things, once the
brain is reset to normalcy by the anti-depressants.

---------

Now, the question is, is there a long term health problem associated with
altering a physically normal brain in such a way that the alteration can
only be maintained by taking the drug? Well, it probably depends on the
drug and the circumstances.

In the case of a drug like cocaine or nicotine, it tends to effect the brain
chemistry as follows (as far as I understand it)- the brain decides that it is
'normal' when it is reacting to the presence of nicotine. Thus, in the
absence of nicotine, it starts, over time, to feel abnormal and bad. In fact,
it may be that, after extended nicotine use, the brain starts to physically
change, such that it really is only normal when there is nicotine in the
system. It's a bit like water wearing a groove in something after a period
of time.

Whether or not a person takes a drug enough to start to have these brain
chemistry and ultimately physical brain problems probably depends on
what the drug is and how often they take the drug, which is in itself
probably determined by how enjoyable or beneficial taking the drug is in
the first place.

So the next question is- what effects do ADD/ADHD drugs like Adderall
have on normal brains? Well- it sounds like they do have some useful
effects, in terms of enhanced performance. I think the questions you are
asking are: Are there any bad effects? What other effects/long term
effects do they have on brain chemistry?

------

Related to that- I found a summary of an article that was published in the
Journal of Pharmacology and Experimental Therapeutics about doing an
experiment with Ritalin.
(see here: http://www.bnl.gov/bnlweb/pubaf/pr/1999/
bnlpr100799.html)

It sounds like Adderall may be slightly different in terms of its effects. I've
read some sites saying that it presents a greater risk for dependancy and
a somewhat lower risk for addiction. There's some useful information on
this website (http://www.add-adhd-help-center.com/
adderall_side_effects.htm)

If you've managed to read all the way to the bottom of this gargantuan,
boring post, check out this article I just found that is talking about
exactly what you (Marketing Rat) are looking for:

http://www.usatoday.com/life/lifestyle/2004-07-07-smart-pill s-
main_x.htm
[QUOTE=The Resistance!]

A temporary fix for extraordinary circumstances sounds much better to me.

wait...........am I disagreeing with myself?

[/QUOTE]

It does sound better. Oh, pretty words!

[QUOTE=The Resistance!]I seem to remember a specific warning on using Ritalin for energy enhancing purposes.[/QUOTE]
Well, see, there's the rub. Stimulants calm me down. In fact, my last dose is telling me it's bed time.

If you do not have a need to correct a chemical imbalance, then you and anyone else, will train your brain to compensate for the extra chemicals. Eventually, you will be less capable of enjoying everything you work so hard for by the end of the Rat race.

Are you willing to risk, not feeling the rewards of early retirement?

Marketing Rat, I don't think anyone was lecturing you. This is just a discussion. We are pretty easygoing around here.

It is one thing to go to the doc expressing details of all the stress you are under and him prescribing a pill but going to the doc hoping to "test" ADHD is another thing.

And it bothers me a lot that you have taken the time to read posts because I can't help thinking, this guy is trying to learn more about ADHD so he can get his Adderall.

This whole thread makes me very uncomfortable. I know what burn-out is like and I know it is not fun but I didn't go running for a pill. I did yoga, I walked, I ate healthy, I didn't drink, I did breathing exercised during the day when stress was getting the best of me. I listened to stress reducing music. I had hobbies to distract me. I hung out with friends who laughed.

I pray you don't resort to a pill but take healthy steps instead. Instead of trying to figure out how to get Adderall, go for a walk.

I do wish you the best of luck Marketing Rat.

honey - you're 26 and you might possibly be experiencing burnout????? is it SO impossible to say to your employers you are expecting too much of me. i want you to hire another assistant to take some of this workload.

you're smart - why not use your brains to help yourself rather than others for once. rather than the Adderall. why are you buying into the guilt and thinking that you HAVE to do it, you have obligations --- why? what is going on here (and i am NOT being sarcastic, i am trying as best i can be to be honest and ask for an honest answer because i have been out of a corporate workplace for so long) but genuinely i am beginning to wonder whether you haven't been brainwashed.

i was just reading about this girl who went through scientology and has now written a little blog on the internet called 'road to xenu' --- but her unquestioning attitude toward what she had to do, what she had to put up with, what was expected of her, how she must conform, how she was WITH the scientologists and NEVER stopped to question or demand better treatment left me amazed. and funnily enough your post reminds me of her. in the end, after twelve years she finally came to the conclusion that she had been very subtly brainwashed.

and it is a mentality that confuses my own brain. you don't OWE them sh*t!!!!!!!!!!!! you don't - you just don't anymore than she owed those stupid scientologists, they just are making you think that. de-program yourself! you are 26, you are hard-working, clever, responsible don't turn to adderall for them. don't.

turn round and tell them - go to your careers/human resources person or to your boss and tell them to LESSEN your workload that what you are being asked to deal with is unrealistic. that you are not an automaton but you have a life outside work and interests outside work, that you are paid for 9 - 5 and that you will work from 9 until 5 and only those hours and get what can get done within those hours and no more. because why should you work for free? why? why give them yourself for nothing.

this slave mentality whether in scietology or in the corporate world. where, how, why, what????

Resistance,

"A temporary fix for extraordinary circumstances..."

Gee, that sounds alot like something I said earlier in the first post that you allegedly read:

"Even though the healthy solution is to acheive a better work/life balance, I could really use something to help me make it through this difficult period."

So, are you "disagreeing with yourself" or just being a contentious asshole? I anxiously await some whiny "I have ADHD" defense.

Hmmmm.... Also, I'd prefer not to be lectured on "prevailing medical opinion" by some jackass who jumps on this thread to provide unfounded criticism when its pretty obvious he doesn't even read the material.

You know what "prevailing medical opinion" most likely is? BUY THESE PILLS SO I CAN AFFORD TO PAY MY INSURANCE PREMIUMS. Let's not forget, medicine is a business folks.

To everyone else who has contributed input to this thread, I'm sorry you had to read this, but this guy is getting on my nerves. Hopefully he'll go elsewhere.

Hi All,

Thanks for continuing to chime in after I berated that other guy a bit. Sorry if that seemed too harsh to anyone, but I came to here to get people's honest opinions about this idea (even if they do disagree), and I'm not interested in blog-trolling jerks like "Resistance".

Alot of you raise some great points, I'll try to address each.

Auntie: "It is one thing to go to the doc expressing details of all the stress you are under and him prescribing a pill but going to the doc hoping to "test" ADHD is another thing."

I totally agree, if there is another more viable solution I'm quite willing to hear it; however, I'm interested in Adderall because I've seen and heard about the positive impact it is having on others in demanding roles.

Auntie: "And it bothers me a lot that you have taken the time to read posts because I can't help thinking, this guy is trying to learn more about ADHD so he can get his Adderall."

I'm a little confused here... I'm reading all the posts because I started this thread and I'm interested in hearing from other people who've experienced this already. More than anything I'm interested in hearing about side effects, but few seem to have any relevant information on that topic. As far as mining you for information about how to obtain Adderall, its already available with or without a prescription. I'm a bit disappointed - I came here looking for information and an open dialogue with what I thought would be a sympathetic crowd (and many of you folks have been great!), but by page four I'm being attacked by a Internet troll and am now viewed with suspicion.

Auntie: "I did yoga, I walked, I ate healthy, I didn't drink, I did breathing exercised during the day when stress was getting the best of me. I listened to stress reducing music. I had hobbies to distract me. I hung out with friends who laughed."

I study at a Dharma meditation center, I dance frequently and occasionally teach as well, I have a horse as well training horses, my eating habits are excellent and I'm great shape, I work out at the gym in my building when I have time, I connect daily with a host of awesome friends that I'm fortunate to have... maybe I haven't made this clear - as invested as I am in external goals I'm equally invested in personal development. I lived in the remote mountains of the Southwest studying under a Tibetan monk as an adolescent for three years. If I've given you the impression that I'm simply a mindless corporate drone that's unforunate.

Auntie: "I pray you don't resort to a pill but take healthy steps instead. Instead of trying to figure out how to get Adderall, go for a walk."

Hopefully I've addressed this comment in the above. And once again, its not a matter of having to "figure out" how to get it - that's most likely a no-brainer in the current climate.

Chjones: "honey - you're 26 and you might possibly be experiencing burnout????? is it SO impossible to say to your employers you are expecting too much of me. i want you to hire another assistant to take some of this workload."

I will spare you a voluminous account of what it is like to carefully chart your career track in my industry, and the minutia of my situation in general. Suffice it to say that I've taken an earnest assessment of my circumstance, I'm planning my next move strategically, and that next move entails fulfilling my current obligations so that I can move on to the next assignment with a clean "record". To do this effectively, I would like to find a performance enhancer - exactly why this is so hard to comprehend is beyond me.

Chjones: "you're smart - why not use your brains to help yourself rather than others for once. rather than the Adderall...why are you buying into the guilt and thinking that you HAVE to do it, you have obligations --- why? what is going on here (and i am NOT being sarcastic, i am trying as best i can be to be honest and ask for an honest answer because i have been out of a corporate workplace for so long) but genuinely i am beginning to wonder whether you haven't been brainwashed."

Hopefully the above has addressed this paragraph as well. I assure you that some misguided sense of loyalty or duty has no place in my choices. My employer has shown disloyalty and I feel in kind. At its essence Capitalism is a metaphor for the natural world. Wolves rip each other's throats out, humans form corporations, yannow?

Chjones: "i was just reading about this girl who went through scientology and has now written a little blog on the internet called 'road to xenu' --- but her unquestioning attitude toward what she had to do, what she had to put up with, what was expected of her, how she must conform, how she was WITH the scientologists and NEVER stopped to question or demand better treatment left me amazed. and funnily enough your post reminds me of her. in the end, after twelve years she finally came to the conclusion that she had been very subtly brainwashed."

Its funny you mention this, I actually worked on a documentary exposing Scientology as a junior in college, they threatened to sue and never went anywhere with it.

Chjones: "and it is a mentality that confuses my own brain. you don't OWE them sh*t!!!!!!!!!!!! you don't - you just don't anymore than she owed those stupid scientologists, they just are making you think that. de-program yourself! you are 26, you are hard-working, clever, responsible don't turn to adderall for them. don't."

In case I haven't made myself clear, this is a strategic move that has nothing to do with anything but careful planning of my next move in an industry that is highly competitive. Believe me, I'm the last person who feels anyone is "owed" anything.

Chjones: "turn round and tell them - go to your careers/human resources person or to your boss and tell them to LESSEN your workload that what you are being asked to deal with is unrealistic. that you are not an automaton but you have a life outside work and interests outside work, that you are paid for 9 - 5 and that you will work from 9 until 5 and only those hours and get what can get done within those hours and no more. because why should you work for free? why? why give them yourself for nothing."

I don't mean to be presumptuous, but I'm guessing you haven't spent alot of time at highly paid salaried positions. It just doesn't work like that. You come in to affect change given whatever the current climate is - period. No whining, no bitching to HR. Many companies are able to accommodate executive work/life balance to some degree, but more often than not executives are simply forced to rise to the occasion or get the hell out. Granted, my current employer is on the extreme negative side of the spectrum, but this reality is commonplace.

Myntz: "If you do not have a need to correct a chemical imbalance, then you and anyone else, will train your brain to compensate for the extra chemicals. Eventually, you will be less capable of enjoying everything you work so hard for by the end of the Rat race.

Are you willing to risk, not feeling the rewards of early retirement?"

And finally, the type of info I was seeking! Thank you! If your schedule permits I would love for you to expound a bit on the statement above. What do you mean by "compensate for extra chemicals"? And also, if you could elaborate on the reduction in enjoyment of life, that would be great. This is the type of thing I'm most interested in hearing, what are the drawbacks? What types of perceptual nuances could be lost due to Adderall?

As far as "correcting chemical imbalances" it is my understanding that there is relatively little known about the causes of ADD/ADHD from a quantitative level, and that essentially the situation we have here is a loosely-defined set of symptoms are indicating that some people learn differently, though the neurological reasons are little known and totally unmeasurable. Decades of experimentation with different combinations of amphetemines eventually produced a few cocktails that seemed to help the situation, though few understand exactly why. Am I wrong?

well so i can't help you on what you really want to know about --- whether there will be any negative side effects in the long term.

i doubt it tho. especially as you are not considering to use these drugs long term. they are fast-acting, they pass through your system quickly and unless you are prone to anxiety (which you don't seem to be) - i can't see why they would negatively affect you. if you are anxious then they could well make your symptoms a lot worse. they give them to children for crying out loud - so hopefully it's not that bad. but adderall itself just hasn't been around long enough to say - but people have used stims a lot in the past, i believe athletes too used some forms of dexedrine to help performance - with the only negative being a possible addiction to those stims like cocaine but i think it fairly unlikely in your case especially as Adderall has been tailored not to have that initial rush bit - but i guess it ought be a concern at least. i don't know enough about it - there are some people on here, shakespeare for example, who is studying psychiatry and can let you know all the details of dopamine/serotonin reuptake/norehephrinewhatever yada yada yada... so hopefully they'll let you know. but everyone's brain is different so you never can tell...

you are right - i haven't had a high pressure corporate job so i am poorly qualified to judge, although for reasons that are slightly inexplicable, even to me, i am a director of a small charitable organisation and a trustee on a couple of larger ones but those aren't full time positions and involve more sitting around talking than actually working, as it goes!

if you feel it is what you want to do then go right ahead.

i don't think that you should EVER feel the pressure or the necessity to take performance enhancing drugs just to get the job done. it's not that important. and if you believe it to be so, then i think you are a fool somewhere. i think they are exploiting you and i think you are allowing yourself to be exploited whilst at the same time thinking you are doing it for yourself and are being frighfully clever and tracking your career. maybe you are. what would i know?

as it is, you have bought into the system, you play by its rules, if i feel you are being a sucker - that's just me. if you feel you are doing the right thing, then good for you - just try not to make a habit of it, i guess. (and man that sounds waayyy too negative so just editing quickly to add - you are obviously bright and doing a great job i hope you use your intellect and intelligence to work for you rather than against you)

good luck.
chjones38720.2598842593

-More than anything I'm interested in hearing about side effects, but few seem to have any relevant information on that topic.-

a page of mixed personal and parental experiences -positive and negative- on adderall http://www.healthboards.com/boards/archive/index.php/t-8478. html

another mixed experiences page -adderall and preventing tolerance- http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20050927/msgs/560120.html#follo wups

Wow, this is exactly what I was looking for, thanks guys! The links to the experiential boards contained some really cautionary tales about the longer-term effects of using Adderall.

To Piper, thank you for such an informative post, great perspective. I wasn't able to access the USA Today article though, could you possibly paste the text into a post if its not too much trouble?

Wordwoman, amazing insight into these dynamics. I'm on the fence about whether these trends are wrong or silly, it seems the changes we are forced to make are so fundamental as to call into question our own essential human natures. It strikes me as exploitive somehow, though for the most part we go willingly, I think I'm on the same page with Taritac on this one.

Resistance, great to see that you are quoting things you're commenting on, as this way at least there's some assurance you've actually *read* what you're commenting on - its good to see a troll changing his ways, I commend you.

"...that you also drug up for your b itch. Prevailing medical opinion holds that the B itches are the worst." This sentence is completely unintelligable, and vaguely mysoginistic. For the last time you moron, I am a WOMAN, got it? You know, one of those creatures who generally looks at you with a curious mixture of pity and scorn.

Regarding disagreement - that's exactly what I'm seeking, the horror stories, the "don't do this for A, B & C," the intelligent people who can use thier own experience to kindly inform mine. Many people have, I hope they know that I'm taking thier perspectives into serious consideration as I decide if I want to explore using Adderall (or anything else).

Regarding the "whiny ADHD defense" - there are many people who suffer from these diseases, and my heart goes out to them, as it does to people suffering from depression, schitzo-effective disorders, social anxiety, dismorphias, etc.... and then there are people who are most likely just flawed, lazy, sh*tbags looking for a more elaborate justifiction for thier failures than "daddy didn't love me." Is that you? I have no idea.

Floofthegoof, thanks for sharing your experience, is that difference in blood pressure pretty significant? I'm not sure how that measure works. If its not too personal, I'd be interested in hearing how Adderall affected your perceptual experience from an emotional perspective. For instance, did you feel desensitized, or feel disconnected from others or anything like that?

Auntie, you raise a very, very valid point in the above. Unfortunately, for the time being I'm not in a position to apply the greater ethical picture to my own situation, though I do think that there is expoitation inherent in what I'm considering doing. I appreciate your concern very much, the firsthand experience, articles and links posted by folks on this board is making a definite impact on my process - the stories of an initial positive experience on Adderall and then the crash and burn has been really interesting (and scary!). I respect your friendship with this Resistance character, but I don't like the guy. I'm all about people speaking thier mind, but he's not even reading what he's attacking. Many online communities have awesome groups of people coming together to inform each other, but there always seems to be that one jerk who just wants to pick a fight. I guess its much easier to be unpleasant in the comfort and anonymity of cyberspace.

Again, thank you to everyone for posting, there has been some excellent information to come out of this and I'm seriously reconsidering getting involved with Adderall at all. I appreciate the time you guys have taken to share experience and knowledge with me, you've definitely made the point that this is not to be taken lightly!

Best, ~ Jess

Marketing Rat.

Will you do me(us) a favor and come back now and then and let me (us) know how you are doing? I mean it! I'd love to know if you move into a more tolerable job. If you skipped the Adderall or tried it, etc. You are so young and just starting out in life. My hope is you stay well, happy and alive.

M.R.

The more I read your posts, the more I think you are like us. I don't know if you have add = proably not - but, like us, you also have some real weaknesses that you need to fix to make your life work. I don't know if adderral is the answer for you or not but I do read the moderate desperation in some of your posts.

Let us know how the adderral works for you.

Good luck.

Well, Adderall is basically speed. If you are tired when you take it, you will become irratable and jittery. If you are well rested, you will experience a mild euphoria. I imagine that if it's used to push oneself harder and faster, one would become exhausted and feel irratable and jittery most of the time.

Adderall is an amphetamine (speed). Below is some information on amphetamines that you should know before you think about taking them for a disorder you do not have.

---------------------------------

POSITIVE EFFECTS

increased alertness increased motivation increased talkativeness positive mood shift, sense of well-being

NEUTRAL EFFECTS

reduced appetite (anorexia) dilated pupils flushing loss of coordination restlessness

NEGATIVE EFFECTS

increased aggressiveness paranoia dry mouth headache increased heart rate (tachycardia) increased breathing rate increased blood pressure rise in body temperature fever and sweating diarrhea or constipation blurred vision impaired speech dizziness uncontrollable movements (twitching, jerking, tremors, etc...) insomnia numbness irregular heartbeat (palpitations, arrhythmia) impotence / inability to achieve erection in men (high dose or chronic use)convulsions dry, itchy skin acne, sores pallorpsychotic episodessudden death

DESCRIPTION

Amphetamines are stimulants that affect the central nervous system. Medically they are used to treat depression, obesity, and other conditions.

In addition to the physical effects of amphetamines, users report feeling restless, anxious and moody. Increased doses intensify the effects, and users may become excited or talkative and experience a false sense of self-confidence or superiority. They may behave in a bizarre manner; some become aggressive and hostile.

Prolonged use of amphetamines can lead to malnutrition and vitamin deficiencies, skin disorders, ulcers, lack of sleep, weight loss, depression and even death. Frequent use of amphetamines can cause brain damage that results in speech and thought disturbances.

Note: "Speed" is used to refer to amphetamine, methamphetamine, methylphenidate (Ritalin), and other strong stimulants that feel something like amphetamine.

Addiction and Withdrawal

Users of large amounts of amphetamines over a long period of time can develop an amphetamine psychosis, which is a mental disorder similar to paranoid schizophrenia. The psychosis is manifested by hallucinations, delusions, and paranoia. Bizarre, sometime violent, behavior is exhibited by those with amphetamine psychosis. Symptoms usually disappear within a few weeks after drug use stops.

Withdrawal Symptoms

Amphetamines have the potential to produce tolerance, which means that increased amounts of the drug are needed to achieve the desired effects. Withdrawal symptoms can occur when use of amphetamines is stopped abruptly. Users may experience fatigue; long, disturbed periods of sleep; irritability; intense hunger, and moderate to severe depression. The length and severity of the depression is related to how much and how often amphetamines were used.

craving exhaustion depression mental confusion restlessness and insomnia deep or disturbed sleep lasting up to 48 hours extreme hunger psychotic reaction anxiety reactions

Effects of use During Pregnancy

It is possible for babies of mothers who use amphetamines to be born with:

cardiac defects cleft palate birth defects addiction and withdrawal

SYMPTOMS OF OVERDOSE

Manifestations of acute overdosage with amphetamines include restlessness, tremor, hyperreflexia, rapid respiration, confusion, assaultiveness, hallucinations, panic states, hyperpyrexia, and rhabdomyolysis.

Fatigue and depression usually follow the central stimulation.

Cardiovascular effects include arrhythmias, hypertension or hypotension, and circulatory collapse.

Gastrointestinal symptoms include nausea, vomiting, diarrhea, and abdominal cramps. Fatal poisoning is usually preceded by convulsions and coma.

Also you might want to look at the warnings that the company that makes Adderall puts out.

http://www.adderallxr.com/assets/pdf/prescribing_informati on.pdf
If better performance at work is worth risking your life then that's your business, but from looking at the information above I'd say the negative effects definately outweigh the positive effects especially if you don't need it. Some of us really need it and we don't have much of a choice, but you do. I pray you make the right decision.
kayak "marketing rat" gal - same condescending tone - utter BS even if rayray IS offensive to her. Hmmmmmm.

I have been childish in this thread.

SHE STARTED IT THOUGH!

Anyway, I was having fun. I didn't even mean most of the stuff I said just going nyah nyah and sticking out my tongue at someone who was an irritation to me.

I know a place to start a forum, maybe I should go start the ADHD COMBAT! Forum?

[QUOTE=kayak gal]

RayRay,

You are one sick puppy. I don't know why you would be bragging about kicking peoples heads in and be so disrespectful to the people who are trying to share info. My guess is you are a major underachiever and the only reason you visit this is for A. you are trying to score what you think are drugs which will help you. or B. you have too much time on your hands. Personally my time is spent making a difference in this world in a positive sense. When is the last time you spent giving back to your community?I can only say this, my guess is you a frusterated dishwasher who has never made a difference in this world and only goes on to this site because you need some type of help I have ADHD and fortunately am not only successful in my business but give a damm about whats happening in my communtiy. I am on meds and have never kicked a so called "punks" head in. You are a looser in more ways than I can express. Your parents must be so proud!!!

Kayak Gal

[/QUOTE]

I appologize if I was offensive, maybe I am just missing the gist. I am totally new to this arena and jumped in too soon without knowing how all of this works. I have a friendly spirit and am unfamiliar with "trolls" or even know who they are. I will sit back and watch for a while and try not to involve myself with anything or anything I precieve as negative untill I have a better understanding of what is serious and what is not.

Kayak Gal

For me - the only times I get mad on the forums and get a little down-and-dirty is when people: say ADHD doesn't exist, say meds are only harmful and we are drugging ourselves/kids, and when they talk about abusing meds as if it's something that's ok.

Talking on this thread about using ADHD meds to get an edge on other "normal" people is reckless and very bad for those of us trying to legitimize our position in the world. It's already a hard position to take and we try to get through the stigma and fear of mental illnesses and then this happens.

Meds taken by people not prescribed or lying about ADHD is WRONG. There is no middle-ground here. Simply put it's the whole "rush limbaugh" thing. He used oxycodone simply to get a high. People are doing that with vicodin, percoset and other meds that are extremely helpful to those in need but being abused by the general population to get off. I can't stand the thought.

There is no place on this forum for abusers and denials. Get real or go home.

There is a line that shouldn't be crossed because when you do it is considered drug abuse.

Any normal person could take a stimulant and perform better. So why not just give them to all of the competitors?

My point still is that when you have ADHD the meds. are meant to get you as close as possible to a level playing field as the "normals". Thus making life more fair. It's like getting a pair of glasses so we can see. Not getting a pair of X-ray glasses so we can see more than the rest.

What symptoms were you having when you received your diagnosis? If you're already "great" at everything I'm just wondering why you need the meds. at all.

bepatient38727.4770949074[QUOTE=kayak gal]

RayRay,

Kayak Gal

[/QUOTE]

Really rayray, how did you get to be such a "sick puppy"? How could you be so IMPULSIVE and write something without thinking it through? I would never do such a ADHDish thing!

I think most ADHDers were at one time or another labeled as an underachiever. I know I was. Probably not you though kayak. Maybe you're another one that is "great at everything"?

It doesn't mean that if we are or were an underachiever that we can't change with the diagnosis and proper treatment.

So, I for one have heard some of your insults before. They were rude and mean.

There seems to be a lot of rude and mean going on in this thread and it's probably all getting reported. Why not go to the debate board where it will fit right in?
Wushu22, lots of ADHDers are great at school and work in certain instances. I get the exact same criticisms/results as you: great work that goes beyond what is expected, but late, last minute, incomplete, or inconsistent. Our problem is not our intelligence or our ability; our problem is our lack of focus, and with that, our lack of organization and consistency.

No one here is making excuses or giving up on ourselves, but in my experience, the little things that have NOTHING to do with our capabilities eventually come to mean EVERYTHING to our employers, and that's when ADHDers fail. No one has ever had anything negative to say about my work product (I am frequently told early on in my jobs that I'm the "best" or "smartest" employee they have), but I always end up on probation essentially for being late all the time. They would rather fire me than put up with my lateness, inconsistency, and incompletion.

If ADHDers seem negative, we got that way honestly.

BePatient,

I try not to come to this site at work, but I can't get it out of my mind and need to get my thoughts down...

I suppose you are right in regards to taking my meds during an actual match. I don't feel distracted, I am hyperfocus, and a racing mind is a good thing. I won't take them when its game time. Thanks for the perspective.

I am great at school, work, and kickboxing because I bust my ass. I work twice as hard as the next guy. The positives of ADHD have also helped me in many ways. I consider this "disorder" to be a blessing. But I jump from task to task and never seem to fully complete anything. I say what I think, but when people start to respond to me, I stop listening to them when I am distracted.

My tangential thinking makes me look very deeply into every subject or issue I come across. I think of every variable possible and forecast what is going on. I'd probably be a failure in my own eyes if it wasn't for the easy access of information that the web gives me.

But yes, I am successful at work. My last review told me I am an excellent employee, but need to work on my organization because too many things slip through the cracks. They commended my clutch performance, though.

At school, my papers and tests are very thorough and cover way more than they ask for (my tangents used to an advantage), but I could be better if I didn't wait until the last minute to do everything. When I was younger, lots of things ended up not getting done. I'm now 25 and should have my MBA from Northwestern, but instead I already flunked out of one school and have spent the last 4 recovering and trying to build up to my potential at a lesser university while still working on my BA.

Hearing your tone is very frustrating. It sounds very defeatest to me.

But this is what I mean...why is there so much focus on the negative? Can people with ADHD not be great naturally? Many of the most revolutionary and sucessful people in our history are believed to have had ADHD. If you can harness the pros and minimize the cons, the sky is the limit. We can't give up, though. We cannot just accept the fact that we kick people in the head out of impulse. Sure, it happens and we all understand why, but that doesn't mean it is OK. And it isn't rude or mean to say its not OK to beat people up while drunk.

wushu2238727.7166898148Fantastic, Wushu22!! A lot of people who are ADHD have done well. I always did well in college and at work and I have never taken meds for ADHD.

The Resistance may have done a little attacking but you started it.

It is so evident to me that all you are doing is patronizing all of the people who reply to you. Your responses are very condescending.

Many members gave you heart felt advise and you take advantage of many ADHDers natural inclination to trust or as some would say, "gullibility". Then pretend that you are apreciative!.......

[QUOTE=Marketing Rat]Wow, this is exactly what I was looking for, thanks guys! The links to the experiential boards contained some really cautionary tales about the longer-term effects of using Adderall.

Resistance, great to see that you are quoting things you're commenting on, as this way at least there's some assurance you've actually *read* what you're commenting on - its good to see a troll changing his ways, I commend you.

Many of us don't read ALL the posts, we're ADHD.. hello. We do the best we can. And yes I will defend another ADHDer from a mean troll.

Regarding disagreement - that's exactly what I'm seeking, the horror stories, the "don't do this for A, B & C,"

Why would we have horror stories? Those of us who take the stimulants are diagnosed with ADHD. The stimulants helps us to get a little closer to "normal". You don't make sense.

Go find a "normal" person who got addicted to stimulants just so he could get ahead. That is where you'll find your, "horror stories"

the intelligent people who can use thier own experience to kindly inform mine. Many people have, I hope they know that I'm taking thier perspectives into serious consideration as I decide if I want to explore using Adderall (or anything else).

Regarding the "whiny ADHD defense" - there are many people who suffer from these diseases, and my heart goes out to them, as it does to people suffering from depression, schitzo-effective disorders, social anxiety, dismorphias, etc.... and then there are people who are most likely just flawed, lazy, sh*tbags looking for a more elaborate justifiction for thier failures than "daddy didn't love me." Is that you? I have no idea.

Floofthegoof, thanks for sharing your experience, is that difference in blood pressure pretty significant? I'm not sure how that measure works. If its not too personal, I'd be interested in hearing how Adderall affected your perceptual experience from an emotional perspective. For instance, did you feel desensitized, or feel disconnected from others or anything like that?

the firsthand experience, articles and links posted by folks on this board is making a definite impact on my process - the stories of an initial positive experience on Adderall and then the crash and burn has been really interesting (and scary!).

Best, ~ Jess[/QUOTE]

bepatient38726.8828356481Cool it.

To all involved in this rather hostile ADHD "supportive chat site",

This is the first time I have visited one of these sites as I have been recently (2 months ago) diagnosed with ADHD. I am hopeful this is an unusual happenstance and people remain supportive. My Dr. recommended me to enlist in these group support sites and this was the first one I wasn't too computer illerate to figure out. Please give me feedback as I am searching out info.

Kayak Gal

You have to understand that many of us "ad/hders" have had to deal with crap from non-ad/hders all of our lives. We constantly hear "oh stop whining about your ad/hd" and claiming that we are addicted to our medication, and so forth. We do not come to this support group to hear comments such as this, even if it is to another member, and especially not from a non-ad/hder.

1) Being that many of us ad/hders do have ad/hd, it is difficult for many of us to read long posts such as yours. You obviously don't know anything about ad/hd, and if you did, and you knew you wanted to speak to us, then you would have known to cut the length of posts down to a readable length.

2) Let me give you an example of what you just did when it came to TR: OK, I go to a forum that I know is full of mainly African Americans (I am using this strictly as an example), and let's say, I'm of a different descent, but I wanted to ask them a question on something, say, hair-related due to the unique differences in their hair textures. And some one there says that they disagree with my reasons for obtaining the info I am seeking. And then I proceed to make a racial and stereotypical post towards the person who disagreed with me. Why would I not expect the other African American members to react? Why would I be surprised and claim that "Oh, you weren't talking to *us*, THAT ad/hder made you mad! *That's* why you said the things you did, not directly to us." In effect, this is what you've come in here and done.

3) Many of us have been around here for months or even years, and TR is one of them. You come in, a newbie out of nowhere and call him a troll. Just because he (as many of the rest of us, myself included) don't really agree with your reasons for wanting meds, and your ways of obtaining them, and your whole attitude about them, doesn't mean that you need to lash out at the ones who disagree with you.

4) Medications are very serious to us. You come in here without even knowing 2 cents worth of info about the subject you are speaking about. When we (especially ad/hders in the European area) have a hard time even getting on the proper medication that they need, and you just come in here using not-so-legitimate methods of getting meds that you don't really need, and you expect to get a sympathetic ear from the *real* ad/hders. You can't even relate to most of us. So don't get defensive if you can't see eye-to-eye with all of us.

Bottom line. You struck and sensitive chord coming in here asking for info on meds for your *job situation* when you don't even really have ad/hd. Many of us could only wish to be in your situation. Don't get all hot under the collar if some of us can't come to grips with your point of view.

sonya_h38726.8281481481LOL!

She is a very defensive person with low self esteem I think.

I don't particularly feel like recapping, AGAIN, but here goes.

I came here seeking earnest advice, which I recieved from many of the great people on this board. This "Resistance" character chimed in attacking me without even reading what I wrote - it was totally self-evident he was just looking to be a judgemental ass (again, the jackass didn't even READ MY POST). He got personal, so did I. Then his little friends jumped to his defense. To anyone who's getting bent out of shape about my "whiny ADHD defense" comment, go back and reread what I've written on this issue, if you still have a problem, I'm happy to hear it.

To reiterate, please carefully read the dialogue, if you still have an issue with my comments to this individual I'm happy to address your concerns. I really don't have time for this kind of crap, but since alot of the folks on this board were kind enough to give me thier advice and share thier experiences, I'm willing to engage and clear up any misunderstandings.

To the folks who have been kind enough to PM me - thank you so much!

Best, ~ Jess

I'm forced to wonder:

Why would you seek out an "AD/HD" support board, and then get annoyed at an "AD/HD"er when he tells you "I HAVE AD/HD" and call that person whiny and defensive for saying such?

Doesn't make sense.

Not cool, man. Bad mistake on a forum such as this one.

[QUOTE=The Resistance!]LOL!

She is a very defensive person with low self esteem I think.

[/QUOTE]

Yup!

well score some speed & impove your work performance

case closed..

was that so hard?

Hey guys, too much focusing on the negative. Here is how it works in my eyes. Us ADHDers have super advantages over many people when it comes to working under pressure, getting volumes of work done in our hyperfocus, and having an out of the box way of solving problems. The companies we work for love us and hate us. The meds take our weaknesses and minimize them, leaving us with our hyperactive brains that we can now control. We are basically the X-men of the world - freaks until we learn how to control our powers. After that, we are superheros (exaggeration, I know...but it makes my point).

People without ADHD can take the meds if they want. It may improve their focus and make sh*t jobs easier to handle. But the bottom line is that no matter what they do, they don't get our advantages.

This Marketing Rat cat sounds like a really smart person. I think I read it is a girl, but I am too engulfed in my own speech to go back and check. Anyway, she can take whatever she wants to try and get a competitive edge, but it won't have the same effect on her as it does on us. Blind people have a better sense of touch and hearing than those with sight. People with site can close their eyes for most of the day, but they still won't get that same level.

I hear a lot of my fellow ADHDers complaining about being insulted. Let it go. The outside folks focus on our negatives because our postives are so intimidating, and we let them do it. We are better than that and should not stoop to their level.

On a side note, I'm on Adderall XR and compete in kickboxing. TO MY FELLOW ADHDers...do you think it would be unfair for me to compete while on this med? I'm great without it (hyperfocus kicks in), but I am even better with it (more energy and faster reaction time). Is it fair to my opponent, or should I just
fight au natural?

i thinks its fine, i remeber college days drinking a case of beer taking dexedrine and kicking another college punks head in,,

sick sick quite stimulating though

yours truely

rayrat former typically mid class suburban punk

Is this a trick question?

If you are "great without it" and it would give you an unfair advantage, then don't take it for the competitions. It should only be used to put you on a level playing field as your opponents, not above them.

See, part of me thinks that, too. But I am great at work and great at school without them, too. But I am great compared to them, not great compared to my potential. And therein lies my dilemma. If I am the best with Adderall XP, is it fair for me to be take it if I am second best without it? If I was "normal", I may be the best straight up. But if I was normal, I may not be able to see their patterns as well as I do. I've been wrestling with this issue for a while now. I don't want to be a cheater, but I don't want to sell myself short, either.

RayRay,

Kayak Gal

^Its not surprising that you can't relate to my situation, I doubt you've ever pushed yourself very hard in life. Well, not that you could expected to, what with that crippling Ritalin "addiction" holding you down (had to laugh when I read that one). Next you'll be on some kind of disability, and taxpayers like me will be subsidizing your failings.

Anyway, to the rest of this board, thanks again for the input. You may be pleased to learn that though I'm still considering trying Adderall as a performance enhancer, I'm leaning much more towards not getting involved with it at all.

I recieved a great offer from a competitive company last week and am currently having a lawyer review the documents I've signed with my current employer to make sure I will be able to take the offer without getting sued (fingers crossed!). Should this all work out, many of the work/life balance issues I've been up against at my current company would be dramatically reduced. I would be handling the same multi-B client, but instead of being part of a 5 person team handling this account I would be part of a 40 person team.

Wish me luck guys, thank you to everyone who has shared thier feelings and information on this thread - I wish you all the best.

Regards, ~ JessMarketing Rat - Fantastic news!! I am crossing my fingers too that it works out as that is the perfect solution. Cynthia

Nice thing to say.

[QUOTE=Marketing Rat]Resistance,

So, are you "disagreeing with yourself" or just being a contentious asshole? I anxiously await some whiny "I have ADHD" defense.

Hmmmm.... Also, I'd prefer not to be lectured on "prevailing medical opinion" by some jackass who jumps on this thread to provide unfounded criticism when its pretty obvious he doesn't even read the material.

[/QUOTE]

You know Marketing Rat, YOU ARE THE ASSHOLE. Why would you jump all over Resistance like that?

and, "await some whiny, "I have ADHD" defense." ? WTF?! "Whiny I have ADHD" defense?!

You have some nerve saying that around here!!

(We have a troll on board).

Bepatient,

As you can see I edited my first post on page one. I had just promised to be nicer and therefore rewrote. But I couldn't contain myself any longer. I don't know how some of our members can stay so nice but I do admire them for it. I've been fuming for seven pages and couldn't stand it anymore. What a world class jerk!

M.R.

I still read insecurity and desperation in your post. However, I also read anger and childish rudeness. You have responded with complete disregard for the people on this board who are struggling to overcome add.

If you don't really care what we think - then why are you on here writing such long posts? Remember - you came to our board - we didn't seek you out. We don't need you here.

Adderal is a powerful drug which if abused can have serious consequences both physically and mentally. IMO it's the last resort for ADD not the first resort for college kids. If one helps your performance why not two....dangerous path. ADD medication should be for ADD. Yuu taking it for school is not that different from someone taking oxycodone to relax

[QUOTE=cynthiatweedle]There seems to be a lot of rude and mean going on in this thread and it's probably all getting reported. Why not go to the debate board where it will fit right in?
[/QUOTE]

very true -there does seem to be a lot of rude and mean going on.

[quote=kayak gal]To all involved in this rather hostile ADHD "supportive chat site",

your Dr has probably never looked at these sites -shows that you shouldnt always take your drs advice as they dont always know what theyre talking about. lol.

have you tried the alternatives board for feedback -seems calmer.

"or is it more likely that I'm simply stressed and under too much pressure? "

... Posting to the original topic and ignoring everything else... I gotta say
that one signal to me that I'm under too much stress (a lot of it self-
imposed, and related to not taking any days off for weeks and weeks), is
that I start wondering if my meds (dexedrine, 5mg 3x per day) aren't
working as well, if I need a different kind, etc. Then, when I actually take
time off of school and work and such, even if I still take the stuff (i.e. I don't
take a "holiday"), and work on doing only what is really important, etc., I
remember that it was not a case of less effective meds but just stress. When
I remember that first, I can supposedly take time off, or schedule a totally
free day... Imporant for everyone, I think, ADHD or otherwise.