Honesty vs Tact | ADHD Information

I am accustomed to seeing the world differently than most people. I feel connected to people who say what they think and feel, whether it is what I WANT to hear or not. At the same time, I am aware that my direct manner intimidates some people, or puts them off or something. (Not quite sure what that is about, since I can't decipher body language.)

I don't really trust people who are consistently polite and nice and say what I want to hear. It scares me, I keep trying to guess what is really going on. (I am absolutely positive that guessing what somebody thinks is always a bad idea.) What alternative does and ADHDer have if somebody won't be direct?

Reisa

I feel very much the same way you do, so I tell people I need directness. They are usually happy to comply.

It gets easier as you learn about who you are to see the body language of approval or disapproval. Takes time but it's all there you just begin to pick it up over time. Sometimes I wish I hadn't because I now see people I thought were friends at work raising eyebrows or suppressing laughter when they talk with me. Jerks. But it's good too because I now can trust people more as I filter the good from the bad.

I find that the braking mechanisms that my meds and therapy give me allow tact. It's actually painfully easy when you know.

When you feel the urge to be truthful with someone - brake then. Ask yourself "is this the PLACE for this comment?". "Is this the TIME for this comment?". "How would I accept this - insult or honesty?". Sometimes the only tact you need is to ask someone to talk ALONE. Even the nicest gesture given can be an insult if it's around other people (eg. "sorry but your breath stinks", "I feel you are not being nice to that person", etc.). Take it aside and they aren't as defensive.

Ask yourself if this advice/comment is truly going to help or is it you venting? If it won't do wonders for the person sometimes zip the lip is the best thing. Think twice talk once - or not at all sometimes.

Oh my Gosh, That's because I'm ADHD? I thought is was because I was Sagitarious!

My roommate says:

Most people wear a mask and they interact with each other based only on appearances, taking everything at face value.

ADDers and other intuitive people can't help but see the person behind the mask. Most people don't want anyone to see behind the mask. So we either wonder why nobody else realizes the person is a liar or we get on their nerves because they keep having to block us out.

So the reason that other people get along with each other is that they get along based on conversations with each other's masks. They can have perfectly harmonious relationships and never see each other as real people.

>>>

Wow, kinda makes me glad I don't understand these things.

Hi Reisa, Your roommate's explanation makes so much sense. It explains a lot of what is going on around me right now. Wish I could be satisfied interacting with a with a mask. It would make things so much smoother. Actually, I think I need to work on working at the mask level. I have such a hard time with those people that are good with the "presentation".[QUOTE=Reisa]

My roommate says:

Most people wear a mask and they interact with each other based only on appearances, taking everything at face value.

>>>

Wow, kinda makes me glad I don't understand these things.

[/QUOTE]

Very, Very well said . What a sad existance... I can spot a mask, a "fake", a mile away and I find it quite nausiating. I like to get to the point of a matter as soon as possible and I often find it annoying when other people delay their point or want me to get a hint of what they want to say. Can't stand that.

Most of the time I got to their point before they finally get around to saying it, or.. I have no idea what they're trying to "hint".

I too try to be tactfull enough not to hurt someone's feelings but I just need to say what I really mean or feel. I do find it hard to understand why so many people don't do the same and instead resort to playing games, beating around the bush, ect...what a waste of time..

"give me real, don't give me fake"...Coldplay (just crossed my mind )

But what do you do about those people who are not comfortable being direct? Or the ones who get mysteriously bent out of shape if you are direct?

I find that people will only tell me if I ask - sometimes - not usually. I think they sometimes get really annoyed by the request for more open communication. It's like forcing them to do something that they don't want to do.

I can understand this a little. For example, if I didn't want to hurt someone's feelings and they asked me to do something - I might often be "busy" and hope that they eventually get it.

However, I really wouldn't want to have to explain that I wasn't interested in doing social things with them - that could be awkward as hell. I think there was a Seinfeld episode about this a long time ago - and Jerry decided that he had to basically "break up" with a guy that wanted to be his buddy.

I wish I knew the answer. The best I have learned so far is to treat the subtle language like a foreign language and to try to learn this language consciously - since it didn't come to me naturally - like it seems to come to most other people.

I would rather someone tell me what they're really thinking. Saves me many anxious moments wondering if they're angry with me or not.

I have never been very tact with things. Ive always told people what they didnt realy want to hear, the truth.

I realy do hate the whole mask thing, I cant stand fake people.

Ah, good stuff Glen. Thanks!

Ah! What I think is largely being discussed here is "emotional intelligence" (EI)--the ability to read and respond "appropriately" (translating to putting the other person first, to a large degree).

I got feedback from my boss's boss (before my therapist suggested I was possibly ADD--no doubt in my mind now) that I was "lacking in emotional intelligence." I had no idea what he was talking about so explored EI in a paper for my cognitive/affective psych course. Eureka!

AD(H)D folks, by characteristic of the condition, are NOT naturally high in EI (no patience for "reading crystal balls," too rational for "hypersensitivity" in others, and not so good at "butt-kissing.") On the other side of the coin, I'm guessing most of us would like to be more empathetic to others. Listening, rather than immediately sharing (although not for selfish reasons--more out of excitement) is a useful skill to develop, as is learning when to do which in a given situation. But it is something that needs to be learned.

I also read a fascinating study (for the same course) that indicated that "happy" people tended to be perceived as "ruder" than paranoid people (which, sadly, most "normal" people are), who tended to be far more careful in what they said and how they said it. Although the author never defines "rude," think it safe to say its akin to not automatically putting the other person and their ego first.

If you've ever felt out of sync, especially at work (and especially if you work in business), it's highly likely that this is the reason. Although business pays much better than other areas (e.g., academia), it's just too hard for me to make the shifts required for success. Plus, I think the game-playing and ego-stroking is far more psychologically unhealthy than being "direct" like we tend to be.

Quite honestly, I'm sick of being treated like the odd man out when, personally, I think my approach is far healthier. I prefer being in an environment where I don't need to play so many of those games--ones I'm just not very good at and have no desire to learn. Despite the money. Price is just too high.

sachetm38746.6734722222

S -

That's cool that you've found a place to be your natural add self without having to accomodate, and without pain. That's great!

I, on the other hand, have found myself around the unspoken language too often for it to be healthy for me not to try to understand it. Whether I like it or not, it's part of my world a lot of the time. Therefore, for me, the more I try to understand the unspoken language around me, the happier I am.

I have found that after I have gotten used to parts of it - a lot of it really is not as subtle as I used to think it was. Some of the cues people have given me probably seemed pretty darned obvious to them. (I'm not talking about the intentionally malicious - which is a different matter, just the unspoken language that many people use.)

Well, Dog, I've only found a place to be myself because I'm currently on disability, with only my kitties for company. And they could care less how much "EI" I do or don't have as long as I feed and pet them!

I'm hoping to change fields once I'm able to go back to work, but don't feel terribly confident I won't experience the same kinds of problems in academia (as opposed to business). I'm very cerebral and just don't spot a lot of non-verbal cues that other people do. I think I've gotten a bit better after researching and writing the EI paper, but it's still a struggle.

For example, RayRay asked for people to call him on his BS. I felt pretty confident that RayRay and Davidornado were the same poster but caveated that assumption. While David said he didn't take offense at my post, a lot of other people did--assuming that providing honest but not "nice nice" feedback was unsupportive--even though requested (again, assuming the two posters are the same). Therefore, I've concluded, even amonst AD(H)D folks, there's a desire/expectation for more tact that I'm confortable with and able to provide. I tend to take people on their word (and still think it likely RayRay and Davidornado are the same poster). If they don't mean it and are actually fishing for compliments, I'm definitely the wrong person to ask!

Personally, I find honest, well-intentioned (that's the key for me) feedback to be extremely useful and welcome it. I strongly dislike "nice nice" unless it's meant honestly and sincerely. And then, I prefer it said as, "I really liked that" as opposed to "that was good." In my courses (online), for example, a lot of my peers will say, in response to each others' posts, "Nice job!" I do NOT want to hear that, especially from a peer. Only the instructor, IMO, is in a position to say that and I expect more substance from an instructor (which they invariably provide). If you liked it, say that and explain what about it you liked. My classmates do this kind of thing all the time. Drives me nuts!

In the first example ("I really liked that"), the response is "owned" by the person giving it and in the second ("that was good"), there's a judgment. I do not like judgments, even positive ones (because I KNOW the negative ones are lurking in the shadows and who is someone else to sit on high and judge?)

Judgmentalism really gets my dander up. IMO, only God has the right to judge and I don't think he does--no matter what the Bible says. At least my God doesn't!

Oh, my, how far afrield I've gotten. Might I be (shudder), ADD?

sachetm38748.6809490741

Ok, what I have from this thread so far is: Non-verbal cues, considering the interest/motivations of the other person, honest in a positive way, emotional intelligence, tact, ego, the use of verbal brakes, and social masks.

Do other people really notice ALL this stuff when they interact? It would take me a week to form a sentence with all that to consider, and none of that even includes the content of my conversation. *sigh

P.S. In my feedback to RayRay (assuming he was Davidornado), I made a concerted effort to "own" my responses rather than pronounce judgment. Typically, that makes a difference.

Maybe it did to David which is (at least in part), why he didn't take offense. Other people, however, didn't seem to make the distinction. All they seemed to get was "negative feedback." Not sure what that means, but kind of interesting. May follow up at some point. If I don't forget!

I spent a lot of my life wishing that people wanted to hear the truth even if they believed that to hear it wasn't in their interest - because it was the truth. I also wished many other things that "should' be true but aren't. Wishing for those things which in my life, aren't true - just caused me a lot of anguish. It was really hard to let go of though.

With my journey through add, I've had to go through one step to accept it - and forgive myself for things that are effected by my biology, then to understand it better, and now to accommodate myself. At the stage I'm in now, I would be lazy if I didn't take the conscious steps to compensate for it - but that's just me and where I am now.

[QUOTE=diffydonna]I think honesty and being upfront is the most important thing. Without it what is there?
[/QUOTE]

There is boredom, that's what. The social BS gets very old, very fast. Honesty is invariably more interesting

I'm guessing you're in your 20s, yes? When I was, I tended to gravitate more towards men than woman. Now, it's the opposite. Men lie because they perpetually want sex (or titillation as in the Sports Illustrated swimsuit issue). I can't blame them for it; it's how nature made them. But I also find it beyond tedious at this stage in my life.

The older you get, (especially if you're female), the less important sex becomes. (Why so many older men prefer younger women). Older women aren't competing over men so there's far less of the catty crap you've described. Other than the few "enlightened" men I've run across in the middle-aged category, I invariably prefer the company of women--at least those of good heart and mind.

Actually, I'm 34. But thanks for thinking I'm in my 20's. That will give me a boost until next Monday.

I have hung around guys ever since I was a little girl. I was a tom boy, but grew out of that and still hung out with the guys. In jr. high and highschool I also hung out with the guys. I would have to disagree that they all want to get in our pants. At least that has been my experience. I was never the sought after girl. Don't get me wrong, I'm not spirallling into some self loathing, make me feel better rant. I'm not ugly by any means. But I'm not beautiful, or exotic, etc. Picture Donna Reed meet Lucy. That would be me. The girl next door. "Look at me I'm Sandra Dee, lousy with......" They didn't want me for sex, and still don't. Well, I'm married too, so that throws a wrench in their sex plan too. LOL!! I think that finding a guy friend can be a very wonderful thing. My best friend in highschool was a guy. Looking back I guess it's possible that he could have been gay. We would hold hands and cuddle on the couch while we watched movies, and never once did he try anything deviant. (not that I wasn't wishing he would at times. ) So see, I just proved the point wrong. I was the one wanting to get in HIS pants. LOL!!! I'm such a man.

As for finding a non caddy girl friend........I haven't found one as of yet. I have just kind of settled for the ones I have. Realizing that they are all back stabbers to some degree and just try to over look that and enjoy the girlie company and conversation.

sachetm - Although I agree that men are indeed in the majority liars it goes beyond being hormonally driven to get just sex - much further.

It's a maturity thing. They are in part young timid boys in a man's shell. They are frightened of a lot of things - self doubt, rejection, being seen as less a man than their peers. It all leads them to lie about the most stupid things like the size of what fills their pants, conquests that never happened, opinions on women - pretty much anything that enforces their perception of their virility and sexuality. When it comes to women men are doubly afraid - and it leads to all sorts of really dumb lies in the less mature of my sex.

[QUOTE=TheDog]

[/QUOTE]

my thoughts exactly...VERY, VERY, WELL SAID

I think ADHDers think of truth WAY differently than most people. Letting go of truth feels a bit like endorsing a lie, which makes it twice as hard.

I have been trying to focus on recognizing spontaneous honesty in others. There is actually more "real stuff" out there than I thought. It is just kind of hidden among the defense mechanisms. When a person's words match their social mask - I can see some of the real person in there. Because they chose to share that with me. Kinda cool.

*Begins to dawn on me where other people's reactions to me come from.*

"Plus, I think the game-playing and ego-stroking is far more psychologically unhealthy than being "direct" like we tend to be.

-sachetm

I totally agree with this. I am not a good office worker. I have tried but the longest I have lasted is about a year and a half. I have not time for the games. And I don't understand how so many others can be so good at it. Working in an office was like being on Survivor. Everyone hated everyone else but they were best friends at the same time. I never got it. Going to the "big office" was never a good thing, you either got fired or demoted. I was in there four times and walked out with a raise everytime. I would go in an tell them what I thought. Why this or that wasn't working. I had other women in the office complaining about my work performance and I went in the "big office" and told them exactly everything I did, all of my responsibilities, and the fact that I was not even trained in the area but doing on the job training and learning as I go, etc. etc. etc. Not even occuring to me that I might get fired for being honest I just laid it all on the table. And got a raise. This happend a few more times, until I got tired of the games and left.

I also saw mentioned that others here don't like fake people. I find it strange and uncomfortable, and dishonest when people shower me with compliments. If another woman especially tells me how beautiful I look, or how great my hair is, etc. etc. on a constant and overwhelming level, I cant' stand it. Women generally don't do that. So when one does it sets off alarms in my head. I tend not to compliment unless it's genuine. So maybe that's why I don't understand it when others compliment alot.

I have been accused of lacking tact in the past. Mostly from my mom. And I never really understood it. If I tell someone the truth, that's more important than tact, I thought. Now, there is a rude way to tell the truth, but the truth is the truth, how can it be tactful?

I too am a Sagitarrius. And so is my husband. Which from what I read is not a good match. However, we communicate remarkably well, and there is not a lie between us. We have had some interesting times, because we tell the truth and are outspoken and speak what's on our minds. But I trust that. I know that I can count on him and I can know that what he says to me is always genuine.

The thing that I like about ADDers as friends is that chances are (and there are always exceptions) but chances are they won't ever talk about you behind your back. An ADD friend would say it to your face first, then probly regret it, and hope you are still their friend. And if you can get past them telling you up front what's on their mind, you can count on them as a friend. I know so many people in our group of friends and they smile and grin and are so nice and sweet to eachother. Until one of them leaves to go pee or get a drink and others will start the attack. And the bizarre thing is they all do it to each other. Makes me wonder what they say when I'm not in ear shot. LOL!!! I have very little female friends, and it has been that way since childhood. I think it's because men are more direct and up front than women. Men don't wear their masks as well I guess. I have never been able to play the games women play. And would rather hang with the guys and their directness.

I think honesty and being upfront is the most important thing. Without it what is there?

I learned a lot of this stuff from my communications courses in college. However, from this ADDer's experience, knowledge does not equal application!

For example, I KNOW that when in a conversation, is someone starts looking at their watch.. they want to go.. but do I stop talking?? Nope.

Personal space is interesting too. when someone really likes being around you and is confortable they stand or sit closer to you when in conversation.. If they don't know you well, or you begin to make them uncomfortable, they actually increase the space between you. I remember people actually taking steps backwards when I was talking with them... I didnt realize it at the time, but afterwards.. it was usuallly when I said something I probably shouldnt...

Open mouth insert foot syndrome... yep I'm REALLY good at that one!

Sherry

I know I'm probably sometimes wrong, but I can pick up on a lot more of the nonverbal since I've tried to consciously learn it (like a foreign language). Along with this, there are a few overriding generalities about people that make a lot of it more comprehensible.

For example, I think most of the time, people want to hear what is true to the extent that it will be helpful to them.

I imagine that nonadders would find it odd that I have needed to consciously learn so much of the "given".

[QUOTE=Reisa]

[/QUOTE]

Doubt it

Of course you are sunshine!! LOL!! We all are no matter what we think!

The brakes come with the right meds, patience and therapy. Now before I open my mouth (most times after all I'm human and goof too) I say "STOP - now review what was said and look at what you are going to say before it leaves your mind".

If you do that a lot people may think you've slowed down a bit but that may be a good thing.

It comes - with work it honestly does.

My mental brakes work pretty well most of the time, I think. Like Glen said, they have improved with meds, therapy and age (patience). But for most of my life, (before I got help) I stepped on toes all over the place. It made me think that the standoffishness and avoidance was ALWAYS because of something I did.

I constantly have the feeling that people aren't telling the truth. I tend to automatically think that I did something wrong and nobody will tell me what. Now that I know that I have social "double vision," hopefully I can learn to tell the difference between "the foot I just put in my mouth" and "shallow social interaction, back off."

I don't like fake people either but it is a fact of life that the skill of tact, masks, social grace, whatever you want to call it is required. I feel that it is a skill because in my case it takes a conscious effort. OK it is exhausting!!!! I like how Glen put it about the braking mechanism. Never learned to use the brakes effectively and now is the time. I know the loved ones in my life will be happier and they deserve the effort from me. Better late than never!! It isn't always appropriate to spout (rant and rave) my opinion of the truth even though I am always right.

Its nice to see that I'm not the only one who isen't tactfull, Everyone I know takes it as me being abrupt when I'm simply being truthfull and honest.

Sometimes I think too much so for there own good, even though if you don't know the truth you can't fixed or work on that particular issue.

[QUOTE=Reisa][QUOTE=bepatient]

[QUOTE=kibbles002]sigh.. normal people really are boring arent they?[/QUOTE]

Sadly lots of them are. Excluding the ones that are devoid of humor, most of them have at least SOMETHING that is interesting. It makes it more entertaining to deal with them if I make it my mission to find out what that something is.

[/QUOTE]

LOL that was really more of a quip than a statement. I don't think others are really that boring.. sometimes a bit shallow.. but never boring

Sherry

A quip with a whip!KRAK! I've always defined tact as the ability to tell someone to go to h3ii, give them travel directions, and make them happy that they are on their way!! Of course, I'm not THAT tactful, I usually stop before the directions.

And yes, I do brag because I'm that good .

Oh yeah! I get so excited about something and usually will end up being accused of bragging... and you're right, its not bragging --- we are just very enthusiastic when things go well!

We like to tell the world about the " cool thing that happened the other day" but unfortunately nobody cares. Well, there are those that are wired the same way we are that can get into whatever it is.. but for the most part.....

sigh.. normal people really are boring arent they?

I've also found in the past that when I'm being honest that it might come across as bragging.

Like when I come up with a new idea or a different way of doing something that is more efficient (usually at work) and I would talk about what i did and be so excited about the results.

Some people don't like that for some reason. I'm not bragging, I'm just excited. So I have to watch myself and stop to think of the best way to give that information. Some people seem as if they don' t even care to know even if the information would be very helpful to them.

Does anyone know what I mean?

[QUOTE=bepatient]I've also found in the past that when I'm being honest that it might come across as bragging.

Does anyone know what I mean?

[/QUOTE]

Yep, I usually announce that I am excited and "have to share." Or come right out and say "I gotta brag." (even if that is not really the point) A lot of people have a more accepting attitude when I make it clear that I know exactly what I am saying. Some still get bent out of shape -- but those are usually the people that are really working at having an attitude. I refuse to care unless they are the boss of me.

[QUOTE=kibbles002]sigh.. normal people really are boring arent they?[/QUOTE]

The ADHD ego is a hard one for many to take. We know ourselves (so we pretend LOL) so that's the conversation many times. That was a hard habit to break - I still tend to be "well how about ME?" LOL. Bad habit bad bad

Lately I think twice and often say nothing. At first it surprised many but I'm now being seen as less surface and deeper than I used to come off. When it is something about me I try to underemphasize my part and bring up the interesting thing about the story. That helps to muffle the ego part of it all.

Takes time takes effort. But it's doable. I am proof as when I post here you'll notice that the letter "I" still features highly LOL. But I try. And keep trying until i get it right.

Along the lines of reading the unspoken language, I think it is helpful to always consider what is in this person's interest.

One of my biggest challenges was to get over looking at only myself as the center point.

Aside from some, most of the time, I can start with the premise that this other person would like to feel good about themself or advance themself, etc, and I can find a way to help them with those goals or make the situation mutually beneficial - perhaps.

If not, they probably don't want me around.

[QUOTE=TheDog]I know I'm probably sometimes wrong, but I can pick up on a lot more of the nonverbal since I've tried to consciously learn it (like a foreign language). Along with this, there are a few overriding generalities about people that make a lot of it more comprehensible.

For example, I think most of the time, people want to hear what is true to the extent that it will be helpful to them.

I imagine that nonadders would find it odd that I have needed to consciously learn so much of the "given".

[/QUOTE]

I agree, except on a couple of points. I find that most people aren't especially interested in the truth, unless it flatters them or reinforces their belief system and what they want to hear. I could launch into an academic discussion about why this is so, but won't!

I also agree that most people know little about AD(H)D--especially in adults. Even my Mother, who's an RN, isn't interested in understanding. She prefers to think that my ADD-related problems are a lack of self-discipline and laziness. That way she gets to criticize me, which she seems to enjoy and which makes her feel better about herself. And she's hardly alone in her ignorance and lack of desire to understand.

I think we need a BIG PR campagin to educate people.

Hmmm, "Me syndrome"

Self centered is kind of negative and makes me think of someone who is selfish and out to get whatever they can at the expense of someone else. That isn't me. When I am aware of another person's needs and wants, I frequently lose sight of my own needs and wants, becoming selfless.

I would agree that our social interactions seem pretty self centered, but all of the times I have tried to get "I" out of my conversations have not met with good results. For example:

When I start using the word "you" in posts or conversations, I tend to sound bossy or judgmental. I get better social results if I stick to sharing my own experiences.

I have tried asking people questions. This sometimes works, if I am dealing with someone who actually opens up and gets on a roll about something. If not, then I am at a loss as to how to continue the conversation. I instinctively jump to my own experience related to the topic.

Talking about other people. Is there ever a time that that isn't gossip?

Bragging. I have worked unbelievably hard to be able to give myself credit for accomplishments. I know it isn't the most TACTFUL thing to do, but I am not going to drag myself down just because some people are shallow and petty.

Most nice people will have a sense of humor about their own jealous reactions when I go a bit overboard. I joke about it when I have that reaction. I have actually had bonding moments with people over it. I guess it depends on the group dynamic. It can be liberating for other people sometimes, when I am the first to announce, "Wow, I did a good thing!"

glen ---

she said she liked direct! for once i was trying to be a bit more direct. i wasn't having a dig at Reisa. i was being genuine - trying to find out whether she would find her own behaviour annoying if she was on the receiving end of it - that's all. i said it in a less tactful way than i might normally do - due to the fact that tact was expressly stated as untenable to the poster.

ah well, better to stick to what we know i guess.

oh no ch - not knocking what you said only emphasizing it!! We do hate in others what we see as negative in our selves. That's just human nature.

I didn't see it as a dig but a valid point.

Ok there - dug myself where I can see out now. I'm content.

aha, now well i can't imagine quite where you developed your aversion to not getting others' literary/historical/ allusions/metaphors in conversation??? but i'll take your word for it!!!

and i'm not going even to start to contemplate where the reaction to trolls comes from --- no for me, trolls are merely Swedish inventions who live under bridges or something. that'll do me fine.

what?

(i'm having a day for ending my posts with a what?) this has to be the third or fourth at least.

chjones38744.8079398148

[QUOTE=chjones] does it bother you though Reisa when other people brag about their achievements? do you ever think 'sheesh, and on and on! - how many times are we going to have to say well done before he/she will shut-up about it already?' about others? or do you just come out and say that? (will they then consider you petty/shallow/jealous then?)[/QUOTE]

There is bragging in that insecure "I am better than you" way that is annoying.

The "I am so excited that I did something cool" kind of bragging the happy kind of bragging doesn't bother me - I am glad somebody is sharing their good mood.

Sometimes I get jealous, at which time I just announce "That is great, I am happy for you. And I am so jealous." If they are a friend, I will sometimes add a sulking insult at the end. Most of the time, just admitting it takes all the charge out of negative emotions - at least for me.

[QUOTE=chjones]we probably all meet people who can occasionally rub us up the wrong way for no good reason. why make it unpleasant and confronting by telling them that. why not just think better to address the situation - by making a mental note to avoid that person in future or finding a way to like them if possible![/QUOTE]

I generally like people too. I even like obnoxious people that get on my last nerve. If someone's behavior is leading down the path to ending the friendship, I consider it my duty to tell that person. I would be less than a friend to just end the relationship without at least giving them a chance to fix the problem.

But when I am honest in a way that might be hurtful, I spend a lot of time planning exactly what words I want to use. This is where sharing things in terms of "I" feel and "what I need" are real assets. I don't tell someone "you are getting on my very last nerve." I tell them, "Sometimes I need quiet time to be by myself" or "I would like to talk about what is going on with me, would you please listen for a while?"

I have been on both sides of the fence in this situation. I am aware that I have some issues with social skills. I have been this way for 34 years. I appreciate people who give me feedback in a caring way, and I respect them so much more because they were willing to go out on a limb for our friendship.

[QUOTE=Reisa]

Hmmm, "Me syndrome"

Good point When I think self centered its more thinking about oneself more than others ... not necessarily at the expense of someone else.. just that one may not have actually THOUGHT of someone else at the moment. And you're right about being AWARE of someone elses needs and wants... maybe that's why ADDers get accused so much of being self centered.. we are just not aware of someone elses needs and wants in a social interaction as much as we need to be.

I would agree that our social interactions seem pretty self centered, but all of the times I have tried to get "I" out of my conversations have not met with good results. For example:

When I start using the word "you" in posts or conversations, I tend to sound bossy or judgmental. I get better social results if I stick to sharing my own experiences.

Most people do.. I remember in a speech communication class that people that use the word, you, causes others to become defensive quite easily. Psychologically, a lot of times we have to use I because it lowers defenses. " when I hear angry outbursts in the home,, I feel angry myself." Instead of when you get angry... which comes out accusatory.

I do that too

Talking about other people. Is there ever a time that that isn't gossip?

Ok here is the Me syndrome again if I'm wrong But was that a comment related to my post? If so when I said making it about other people I meant about the other person talking -- that person's interests, experiences, whatever. Not talking about other people that are not present. I felt the need to clarify.

wow, I'm glad you can do that. I was so bad at talking about myself and not being tactful that I clammed up and became very quiet. People have viewed me as being unapproachable and standoffish... Im not like that, but I was so afraid of offending people that I finally quit talking at all. On meds I am opening up a lot more, but I still have that fear of offending, bragging too much, or blurting out something I wish I could take back. Everybody does a little bragging every once in a while.. the trick is knowing when to do it and when not.

I'm not there yet.

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Cool topic. I love stuff about human nature.

Sherry

[QUOTE=Reisa] Ok here is the Me syndrome again if I'm wrong But was that a comment related to my post? If so when I said making it about other people I meant about the other person talking -- that person's interests, experiences, whatever. Not talking about other people that are not present. I felt the need to clarify.[/QUOTE]

Hehe, no that wasn't related to your posts. I just mentally ran through the conversation options, that was one.

I prefer directness!Most people though I find don't like this. I guess this is why I have little friends either. I really dislike people who are not direct.

does it bother you though Reisa when other people brag about their achievements? do you ever think 'sheesh, and on and on! - how many times are we going to have to say well done before he/she will shut-up about it already?' about others? or do you just come out and say that? (will they then consider you petty/shallow/jealous then?)

just curious?

do you give people space to talk about other things at all? or do you tend to take all the oxygen in the room? i had a flatmate for a bit and she was a lovely person and all but i couldn't bear it, she just seemed to expand into the whole space of the flat. it killed me. she was fine, very tidy, kind, thoughtful, generous, did the washing-up and frankly completely unbearable. it was all the more difficult to ask her to leave as she never did anything wrong! and wrong tactic (it must be my british education) i very tactfully asked her to leave, so tactfully that she (not british) didn't understand that i had, indeed, asked her to leave.

i mean, it's kinda funny but it's kinda ridiculous!! but she left NO space somehow. or suffice to say we just weren't compatible but she was frightfully upset when finally i managed to sorta explain that i needed some space etc. etc. and hurt i think, because as far as she saw it - it was all fine.

totally at cross-purposes. perhaps i hadn't been direct enough. but what is there to say? what can one say? you steal all the oxygen out of the room, you have a suffocating personality? --- because that's not true, it's only true in my reaction to her - i found her suffocating, plenty of people wouldn't. so should i have said 'i find you suffocating?' --- why? why say that? is it not kinder to say --- "i am really at that age where i want to live on my own, have a bit of my own space, grow up a bit". rather than "i find you completely unbearable - it kills me even to come home if i know you are going to be there" is that better? especially when she was in no way vindictive, nasty or anything bad. why would i say something nasty like that?

we probably all meet people who can occasionally rub us up the wrong way for no good reason. why make it unpleasant and confronting by telling them that. why not just think better to address the situation - by making a mental note to avoid that person in future or finding a way to like them if possible!

i don't know --- i guess i am one of those who (internet aside) tend not to say what i think and expect people to get the hint as someone else said by not replying to an invite or being busy etc. etc. although, that said, i kinda like most people so it doesn't come up so often. which is lucky.

jonesy - we always hate in others what we hate in ourselves. Right? After all the one person we can't stand to have faults is us. So seeing a me mirror right next to us is a nightmare. So we get in with someone going bla bla ME ME ME bla bla it's twofold. First "what a blowhard I HATE people like that" and under that "geez I can't talk about ME ME ME with this guy stealing the light!" LOL

NOBODY here should worry about the "I" thing. We are all mates in this ADHD thing and if we can't keep each other secure and safe - who will? The trolls??

Yep I know that one too... even the posts that are made here have a lot of "I" in them..

I have noticed that and wonder if Im talking about myself too much even here.. but then again I'm thinking that I'm sharing what I'm thinking so maybe its ok? I guess I can start posting "tell me to shut up if I start talking , or in this case posting too much..." I say that one a lot around my friends...

Ok so how many "I" s are that? 11... hmm self centered little ummm cant say that word...

I'm also working on that one.. make it about others.. you are right Glen.. its tough, I didnt realize that the "Me" syndrome was also part of ADD. Interesting.

SHerry