spanking | ADHD Information

i tried spanking (for the really "bad" stuff) my first born and found that i couldn't do it because i was too angry. (anger from being terrified by something dangerous she was doing, which was all the time!!) i felt out of control, which is a bad place to be. so, after a couple "bad mommy" episodes of spanking, i chose another route.

i still have major guilt feelings about the couple times i did spank her. it's one of my few regrets...

i found that diverting their attention or removing them from the environment was a better way for me to deal with the typical toddler/preschooler behaviors. as they got older, taking privledges and/or grounding worked well. consisitency was key.

for my other two kids, i never spanked and instead used what i had learned thru my first child (poor guinnea pig!)

I was spanked when I was a kid, and I thought it was stupid and swore I would never do it. And I never have. When I was a teenager, I had a babysitting business in my neighborhood. This was in the seventies, and spanking children was still thought to be O.K., plus all the parents knew me well. Some gave me permission to spank their kids, if I thought I needed to, but I never did. I taught in a school district about seventeen years ago (?) that allowed spanking, but I never spanked a student. And I adopted my son four years ago, when he was eight. I was told by the social worker that I could not spank him, until the adoption was final. I used to think, as soon as I sign those papers..., but I never have spanked him.

I hate spanking. Maybe, if I had had my own child from birth, I would feel differently. I don't know. It just seems so demoralizing to me.

lillian38773.5856134259I got my ass popped plenty of times for misbehavior, but never for mild misbehavior. I turned out to be a successful (albeit ADD-challenged) adult who does not hate her parents, but respects and loves them for loving me enough to discipline me effectively. Spanking doesn't work, however, for every child. I think people need to evaluate if it is a tool they should utilize or not in raising each individual child. If I had a child who would learn from spanking, I'd spank him/her every time it was appropriate to do so.

yes, i spank. But not very often. It is always the last resort. A friend of mine raised her severe adhd child {who is now 21} and gave me some great advice. I had called her crying that he was in trouble in school 4 times in a week. (no principals office though). I told her I couldn't spank him with the way I set the rules. I had the rule of 2 pops for each check mark. I just thought the 8 was too much. Well, this wise woman told me at school when he gets into trouble, they punish him there. they are just giving me a report of his week. she said I should use the paddle not the hand (the mom and dad's hands should be for loving a paddle is for discipline). And to save the spanking for the last resort. she told me to let the school do what they do and only spank if he goes to the "office" at school. Well, I didn't agree at first. But, I tried it (only when he got a check mark I take his play station away and the tv (he doesn't watch much tv any way). But, now he doesn't get in much trouble at school and we hardly ever spank. It is for the last resort on things that can harm him, some ones propriety, and if he does some thing DRASTIC ( i have had only one Drastic). So that is my spanking theory. I know there are some kids that it doesn't work with, and there are some kids that don't need to be spanked, Lord knows I wish it was that way for us.

anti-adhd - I have to say you are a brave young man, but you can not spank the adhd out of a kid. It is a neurotransmitter problem, not a behavior problem. I don't want to put you down. You have a good head on yous shoulders. I don't want to seem like I'm dogging you, but when a person has children, the entire theory changes. Parents grow up in a matter of seconds. Those seconds are the seconds that the child takes his or hers first breath. I don't think a person that is not a parent can comprehend it, I know I sure couldn't. Then when a parent has a child with ADHD the change happens again! That's not some thing a parent w/o a child with adhd can understand. Although, they can relate, they don't really know the impact (unless they themselves have add/adhd or any other learning disability). I don't want you to think I am being mean to you. I am just trying to help you understand a parents perspective. I have no doubt that you will have children some day, then you will understand.

I only spanked my children to supprise them, not harm them, whenever they may have done something that was dangerous to themselves or others. I have,nt spanked them since they were 8YO.

As education can solve ANY war before it begins, clarity of thought, love and the same education can discipline ANY child without the need to ever give them physical pain.

I have a 12 year old girl (ADHD/EPILEPSY), a 10 year old boy (ADHD) and a 3 month old girl... None of them ever have or ever will feel physical pain from me and they are the best behaved kids I have ever known and everyone says so. Let me please try to teach you something, respect has to be earned by the parent at the youngest of ages, teaching a child something as basic as sharing a bottle when they are a baby goes a long way to them learning to live WITH law and order and not DESPITE it. There are so many ways in which you can gain the respect of your children as apose to their fear.

I was beat black and blue as a child, my mother didnt stop at a slap about the head, she strangled, punched, scratched, nipped and kicked until I managed (most of the time) to escape for a day or two. I dont respect her, I am not the man I am because of her, I am the man and father I am DESPITE her.

Dont hurt your babies, they WILL remember.

[QUOTE=thejestersmuse]

Dont hurt your babies, they WILL remember.

[/QUOTE]

What you describe is abuse....not spanking, and I am sorry that you had to experience this....

however I do feel that a true 'spanking" ie: a swat on the butt or a slap on the back of the hand, has its place in discipline.

Anyone who cannot stop at a swat shouldnt be laying their hands on a child at all.

P.S. In my vocabulary, there is a difference between a 'spanking', and a"literal ass beating". I've never abused my children, and my love for my kids has out weighed a lot of misfortune in my life. They will be my finest moment , from the time they were born till after i'm dead! I've done my best to only teach them love. They are my greatest acheivements!

It can be called many things, described in more poetic phrases, written in warmer contexts.... but at the end of the day, Violence is Violence.

Full Stop.

I am not trying to upset or purposely disagree with anyone, just stating my point of view. There are ways to gain respect and nurture discipline in ALL children, if I can teach an autistic child to be well behaved and have two ADHD children with excellent behaviour then I think, in my eyes anyhow, that there are better ways than hitting. Whether you call it, corporal punishment, a light tap, spanking... no matter, its Violence.

kaks, do you have children?

well heres a spanking story

23 yrs old home having dinner after 4 yrs in college dorm..

"mom, would you mind passing the f**king salt?"

SMACK,,,

oops did i say that at the tabnle lol

Ming:

If you think running into the road without looking is so bad that you think it's justify spanking, what would you do if your child chase a younger brother with a knife? Would you spank harder, longer or with something or perhaps combine the spanking with something else like grounding or so?

I ask cos I want to know where you draw the line, what is so bad that they get spanked and what happens if something even worse comes up?

I hope you read my post above that i posted the same time as you :-) There you see I truly am curious and ask not to judge only to find out.

/Kaks

If a parent spanks (a few swats on the rear-end) their child, that really is a very small part of the whole picture. The rest of the time a parent is providing them with love, acceptance, understanding and pride in who they are. When you take the whole picture in you are not forever damaging this child because of an occasional spanking. My children know that there is nothing they could do that would change my love for them. That is a message I give them everyday.

My kids are 17,14,10, and 8 now. There are other things that more affective at their ages, so spanking isn't really an issue anymore.

There are worst things a parent can do to their child than giving them a spanking.

ogram:
No I have no children.

lilbitcrazy:
Do you think it's necessary to spank to recive the feeling of never changing love from a parent to a child? Is it the only way or simply the best way?

/Kaks

[QUOTE=Kaks]

lilbitcrazy:
Do you think it's necessary to spank to recive the feeling of never changing love from a parent to a child? Is it the only way or simply the best way?

/Kaks
[/QUOTE]

Sorry Kaks, I'm not sure of what your asking.

Oh, sorry, I'll quote you instead.

[QUOTE=lilbitcrazy]My children know that there is nothing they could do that would change my love for them. That is a message I give them everyday. [/QUOTE]

To recieve that the children feel that way, that nothing they could do can change your love for them, is spanking the only way or is it simply the best way?

Did that made it any clearer? If not, ask again :-)

/Kaks

Kaks, by that I meant that there is no wrong they could do that would change my love for them, and not every wrong they committed resulted in a spanking.

I believe that what ever form of discipline, be it spankings or whatever, that a parent chooses to uses is fine as long as they are also given the love and acceptance. If a parent's only interest is in applying the discipline and not taking an active interest in their child, well than I feel they're definitely doing harm. You need both, the discipline and love, to teach your children right from wrong. It is a part of a parents job to make them accountable for their actions. If a parent doesn't than society will and that would hurt far more than a spanking they would have received at 5yr.

[QUOTE=Kaks]I keep repeating my questions cos I really want to understand this from the other point of veiw than mine. So:

1) Is the point of spanking a child to make it hurt in _some way_ so they understand that what they had done were so bad so it's gonna hurt doing it again?

alright kaks - i'll give it a go. i am sure i won't do an excellent job and am not sure how i seem to be defending something that i haven't yet made up my own mind on! but anyway i think we are in a no-win conversation - i think despite what you say you do not have any desire to have any other opinion than the one you currently hold - and so i am probably wasting my breath (or typing) but here you go:

no, i don't think so. the point of spanking a child is to let them know that it was a serious thing they did wrong (spanking being a rare punishment, the rarity factor giving it a seriousness factor). that it wasn't a normal 'bad' thing but a REALLY, REALLY seriously bad thing that they should stop and think about. the physicality of it being an effective reinforcement for a young child where words can easily just become a long spiel that goes in one ear and out the other (bla bla bla bla bla - think Homer in the Simpson cartoons).

2) At what age do they become the ones whos allowed to spank and not be the one getting spanked?

never. until they have children of their own - if they choose to go that route. much like a child never has the right to 'ground' his or her own parents or send them to their room or take away their privileges or any other disciplinarian methods that they use.

No 2) bring up this question:
3) When a kid have reashed the age of being able to spank and not get spanked how can we teach that kid to _not_ hit their younger friends when the kid think the friend have put it self or some other in danger when we say it's ok for us to spank them whos younger of the very same reason?

kaks - i am trusting that you are not being deliberately obtuse. i never took it upon myself to distribute punishment to my peers, whether that meant taking away their privileges, sending them to the corner. i perfectly well understood i was not their parent. at most (and even this i doubt i did so much) i would 'tell' and say "mum, so and so did such and such"... but i wasn't a tattler anyway.

you seem to presume that if you are smacked you turn into some violent, vicious monster who wants to do nothing more than hurt others - for myself, a vegetarian and a person who has never raised a finger to anyone. i wonder, how did you get that impression?

4) If we have the right to spank children when they do wrong, do they have the right to hit us when we do wrong, cos we do from time to time? Or should perhaps our husband/wife do that to us?

no it's not offensive, kaks. i doubt very many people who smack children would smack a child over the age of eight. before that age it could be possible that the reinforcement of a physical punishment is more effective than just another long spiel... that sounds like every other telling off - i don't know if that is true you would have to ask a child psychologist. but i can't tell you how much i DO NOT have an issue with being spanked. at all.

i am not even sure that i am an advocate of spanking. but what i am an advocate of is a child who knows how to behave. who has understandable guidelines. who can be sociable and aware and altruistic. i have nephews and neices and they are, without doubt, a joy to be around. polite, interested, well-behaved, enthusiastic, respectful and funny.

i have met other children whose parents seem to be completely undisciplined with their children and it is a nightmare to be around these kids for more than five minutes and how damaging is that to the child's self-esteem when every adult and/or child wants to escape from it as soon as possible??? i would consider that to have a far more damaging effect on the child's psyche than i would ever consider spanking to have.

i am not sure whether any of that makes sense to you - but it's my last word on the subject because i can't see that we will really get anywhere with this.

i think, really, it is up to every individual to decide how they feel about it. generations and generations of children were spanked in the past, i am not sure if they are the worse for it or not. i do sometimes feel that children today are in fact worse off due to a lack of strictness and guidelines in their lives --- it seems to make them very unhappy and very unsettled in a lot of ways. but i don't even have children so i am no expert.....

(I realize this last question can be offencive but it's ment as an honest question and a suggestion to a solution and wounder if it's correct)

/Kaks

[/QUOTE]Hi,
I raised three children with my husband. Both of us were spanked as children and swore thar we would not spank our own children. We used the token system and time outs when they were naughty. The ONLY time they did get spanked was when they did something that was potentially harmful to themselves or others and they had been warned not to do certain things. These things were things like running into the road and not looking both ways. If they ever hit other children they had to apologize and tell why they hit and why they won't do it again. I don't know what I would do if a child of mine aised their hand to me. Probably call protective services so that they could see how good they really had it at home and if they were going to hit or abuse me they could not or else and mean it.
My children are now 18,20,22'
The youngest graduates High School this june. The middle is in college, and the oldest is running a construction company in the Virgin Islands.
We all do the best we can as parents but, don't hit the kids because you are angry with them or their behavior. Try and work on the behavior that bothers you the most. We are our childrens best advocates and also their first role models and friends.
Ming
Thank you chjones, I truly appreciate you took the time to answer.

I might not be willing to change my point of veiw but I am truly interessed in understanding how those, who think it's ok to spank a child, thinks.

Your answers raise some questions but because you said you don't want to take part of this thread any more and noone else seems interessed in answering my questions I let it go.

(Ofcourse I think it's sad cos this I love, to get to know how ppl with different opinion think and what they base their opinion on :-) )

/Kaks
[QUOTE=IMac] [QUOTE=Tryan920]

[QUOTE=IMac][QUOTE=Tryan920]I was spanked as a child, yet I do not go around beating the crap out of people who annoy me or make me mad.........[/QUOTE]

Good for you. So you would say no, it is not o.k. to hit people when you are angry, right?
[/QUOTE]

Correct, but that has more to do with rules of society than anything else.

[/QUOTE]

Tryan, don't sell yourself short. Deciding whether or not it is o.k. to hit another animal is a conscious choice.
[/QUOTE]

Imac, maybe I am failing to see the point of your question. I spank my child if neccesarry, for discipline, I get angry at them and others but I do not strike out of anger.

Yes it is a conscious choice, but it has no bearing on my feelings on the use of spanking for discipline. My children are taught not to hit, just like any other child, and although not perfect, they do quite well. They are taught that if someone does something to them that hurts them or makes them angry enough to hit, to come to me, their father or the babysitter to handle the matter.

My children know the difference between spanking and hitting because I have taught them that difference.

I keep repeating my questions cos I really want to understand this from the other point of veiw than mine. So:

1) Is the point of spanking a child to make it hurt in _some way_ so they understand that what they had done were so bad so it's gonna hurt doing it again?

2) At what age do they become the ones whos allowed to spank and not be the one getting spanked?

No 2) bring up this question:
3) When a kid have reashed the age of being able to spank and not get spanked how can we teach that kid to _not_ hit their younger friends when the kid think the friend have put it self or some other in danger when we say it's ok for us to spank them whos younger of the very same reason?

4) If we have the right to spank children when they do wrong, do they have the right to hit us when we do wrong, cos we do from time to time? Or should perhaps our husband/wife do that to us?

(I realize this last question can be offencive but it's ment as an honest question and a suggestion to a solution and wounder if it's correct)

/Kaks

In my state, the spanking can not leave bruises. If the spanking leaves a bruise, it is considered abuse.

A few years ago, spankings that left bruises were not considered abuse.

.IMac38943.8314814815I got the crap beat out of me when I was a kid.

The problem for me isn't how hard or with what object or whether or not I
bruised. The pain of having my mother hit me was how in that very
moment, I lost my dignity as a human being and how I felt that in that
very moment that my mother hated who I was and how in that moment I
wasn't worthy of her love.

I don't have any kids yet. One of the reasons is because I'm afraid that I
will not be able to discipline my kids without taking away their human
dignity. I feel sad because I love my mother and yet I always have to
remember to forgive her so that I don't worry trouble myself with anger at
her.

That's just my point of view. Probably doesn't apply to your situations...tl_c:
You got something there. Even if the parents don't beat the crap out of their children they still humiliate them while spanking them. And that's very seriously thing to do to your children.

Thats also something to consider in this discussion.

/Kaks
i disagree kaks --- i do understand how one might perceive it if you have never been on the receiving end. but i never felt humiliated by my mother or either or my parents.

it wasn't humiliating - it was a punishment and that's that. yes, i felt bad - but i felt bad because i had done something really wrong and on a certain level, having a physical punishment was also a way of getting over what you had done --- crime and punishment --- so that you didn't need to feel any lingering guilt.

one of the things i will always credit my mother for is that she DIDN'T use that guilt-trip 'i'm so disappointed in you' long, unhappy looks - because i would have hated that, to make you feel guilty/bad. it was far more straightforward - you had done something wrong, you had to understand that, you were spanked so it STUCK in your head - and it was over. no lingering sad looks of 'what did i do to deserve such a child as this'. oh, you have made me feel so bad and i am going to make you pay for it by walking around so disappointed and unhappy with you. ya know. it's straightforward, straight-up, punishment for something you HAVE TO take notice of and be SURE not to do again. no emotional blackmail or game-playing by withdrawing love or whatever...

far preferable to me. i think.

just the way i see it, tho.

and there are far more effective ways of undermining and humiliating a child --- being forced to stand in the corner of a classroom even can be humiliating for a child (possibly an effective deterrent but...).

for me, being ADD and verging toward the slightly autistic in some modes of my behaviour i absolutely hated going around to my friend's house if her father was there - because he would tease me all the time... eg. i would ask "can i have an orange juice please, Mr S" and he would say crossly "no, you can't" --- so i would apologise and start to walk away and he would laugh and say "of course you can!". i NEVER understood that (in fact i still don't) but he always did that kind of stuff to me, and being a very literal kid i never knew what he meant or how i was supposed to answer -------------- and i was always the butt of his weird sense of humour.

so i was a fairly sensitive kid but honestly, i promise you kaks - i have no sense of humiliation from being spanked. that doesn't mean i am advocating it - i am just saying, you can take it from me - as someone who has been spanked - that it had no long-lasting psychological damage, i have no bad feelings about it or toward my parents at all....... i know it will be hard for you to believe but it is just the way it is.

and i think it is as simple as this - that you know as a child whether your parents have your best interests at heart. whether they put you before themselves and above everything. whether you feel entirely secure in their love and do feel their love for you as an active component in your life. simple like that.

chjones38783.1721412037[QUOTE=thejestersmuse]

I think this is once again getting off the subject of the debate,

I don't see how this is off the subject when you need to be clear on what exactly your debating. If the topic had been Corporal Punishment, I don't believe any parent would have voted yes.

What would you rather I say, spanking, physical punishment, pain associated attitude re-adjustment, a slap...

Your sarcasm is cute! I believe the topic is spanking.

[/QUOTE]

Corporal punishment is a no-no word because it's a big one and hard for some to define. I'll help.

Corporal - root comes from latin Corpus - like corpse does and just means of or pertaining to the physical body. So in other words a tap on the wrist or a slap on the bum are corporal just as beating would be. It's a big area and not well defined by just saying "corporal punishment".

Time out doesn't work with every kid. Rewards don't work either. Spanking doesn't work with every kid anymore than those - each parent must decide on their own what are the boundaries and what really honestly works.

Sometimes when it's life or death or such a critical thing then spanking does work. Not angry spanking though that never does as all that does is relieve the spanker's stress at that point - and leads later to guilt and the pendulum swings too far the other way.

It's legal to spank reasonably here in Canada - and I don't regret being spanked as a kid. Never harmed me psychologically - I don't feel violence is a warranted response to anger or anything - except to defend one's self or others who are weaker.

Ogram was given this advice:

[QUOTE=ogram]A friend of mine raised her severe adhd child {who is now 21} and gave me some great advice.
<DELETE>
she said I should use the paddle not the hand (the mom and dad's hands should be for loving a paddle is for discipline). [/QUOTE]

Ogram doesn't say if she use the advice about paddle or not so I leave that out BUT someone, who was called to give a great advice suggested it. And what's more sensational is that noone have reacted to this even thou the post is in the begining of the thread.

[QUOTE=lilbitcrazy]Corporal-punishment=Abuse

Corporal punishment - punishment inflicted directly on the body, as in flogging

flog - to beat with a strap, stick, whip etc.

Corporal punishment is not IMO the same as a spanking.[/QUOTE]

Would flog include a paddle? Cos in that case, what ogram was suggested to do was to abuse her children..... And still noone reacted when she wrote that.

What I call spanking for dicipline, you might call abuse. Who's right? When can ppl around react and set of the alarm to stop a child of being abused, it might as well only have been spanking for dicipline.

This shows how hard it is to set the line. Where do spanking get over to be abuse? Who will point out that difference and draw the line?

/Kaks

i will admit... that i have spnaked all three of my children.. but with dillon it only makes it worse.. he will laugh about it and it makes me want to spank him harder..

so at this point i do not spank him anymore...Ok, thx lilbitcrazy, I got what you mean.

/Kaks
Some states this is illegal. Beware in Austin ,Tx there are 2 Men in jail for spanking. This is with another families kids even though parents said ok. .IMac38943.832025463I also hear rules with out without relationship cause rebellion. This was on the radio. I agree I had a smart mouth childs Mom's excuse behavior. I told the kid if you were my child you would be out. This kid is bp and is in trouble all the time. She is also boy crazy! Dad is the only one in this family who disciplines. We were on the same Soccor team. Thank god not anymore.

i voted no, but i have. But it seems it doesnt do a thing but releases anger, ive never really gotten any good from behavior out of the kids once i do that, and for years now anyway, i guess i dont spank hard enoguh bcuz they literally laugh at me like i am playing, and then sometimes i laugh to at my pathetic attempt to be a hard a$!, so anyways, i have never been a very strong disaplinary. My hubby on the other hand, if they are really really bad, he spanks and they feel it and they deifnately dont laugh, but its rare. but i pretty much just dont. I have gotten further by taking away playstations etc. for awhile then i do with spanking!

christi

Last rezort though. It just makes anger increase more. I also don't see how it teaches problem solving which is what they really need to learn.

I'm sure you all have heard spare the rod and spoil the child. I heard it all my life. My kids aren't spoiled, although I do reward them often for grades, attitude, etc. I don't spank my kids anymore. I use to all the time when they were younger. I have 3, the youngest has ADHD retentive. Spanking doesn't work for her. Taking things away that she likes doesn't work for her. She will gladly accept whatever punishment you give her so I chose not to spank her anymore it didn't do any good. It hurt me more than it did her. No matter how how you tried. I am lost in the field of punishing my ADHD child. She has the same mood/attitude for every occausion so no I don't spank my child/children.

Angie

ALL children not only NEED but they CRAVE discipline. Discipline is a "tool" NOT a "weapon". Discipline is not the same thing as a 'beating'. This topic has to end some time. I am glad that you all have found the right discipline. Judging people for how they discipline their children is wrong. and honestly, I think that if someone doesn't walk in my shoes and lives in my house, they shouldn't even talk about it. It's starting to look like a school yard tug of war.

I hope others will agree with me at saying why does this have to be a battle? Agree to disagree and appreciate others and their opinions. The ONLY right opinions are the ones that work for an individuals family unit. What works for some one, won't necessarily work with another family unit. Personal, I have spanked, my son's psy dr told us that if we do "spank", we have to stand for it and stay consistent. I don't spank unless it's some thing that could damage, hurt, or paint the house with oil. oh, yeah and that's a total differ story from my child hood. I wanted to add one more thing. My son is a typical boy. He gets into trouble, like other kids his age do. But, I don't spank for that stuff. I'd much rather be in a line behind 20 other people ready to check out, and swat my son's bottom, that the other parent that chooses to let her child run around, putting things in other's baskets, jumping up and down, tring to look in my purse. I want to be the parent that other's say "man, that boy is a good kid".

.IMac38943.8327546296I find it disgusting that people spank their children.. utterly disgusting.. imo people that use any kind of violence against their own kids doesnt deserve to be called parents.. Kids are supposed to be raised by love and nurturing and punishishing them should ONLY be done with something that relates directly to what they have done. For example: If they stay up to late to watch tv all the time you take it away. No matter what they do wrong any punishnment (if nessecerry at all) should be in a direct context to what the kid did wrong. This will increase the chance of the kid understanding the core of the problem.

I was spanked when I was younger when I lived with my grandma because that was the way she was raised. Old fashioned. But my reaction to it was that I lost all respect for her and I was afraid of her.. It destroyed a lot of our chances for a good relationship. Beeing violent in any way with your kids is NEVER the best solution.

I have had ADHD to the extreme when I was younger, now I have ADD. My little sister has heavy ADHD.

Imac: I havent read the entire discussion but yes this is discussion forum :)
btw: I understand that people can loose control sometimes, its not easy.. and ofcourse stuff like that can be forgiven.. At least for me I have hellalot of problems with people who spank their kids as a "normal" punishement method.

btw: Its also illegall to do it here, but there still are way to many that does it :(
ah - now don't hold back on us here nan, will ya????

c'mon don't be shy - tell us how you really feel.....

(only teasing).

I was spanked as a kid too - also for only the worst and most dangerous things I did. For a kid with ADHD it is a deterrent only so far. For a regular kid it works quite well though - you mess up big time and you know the consequences. It does leave a very sore and tender reminder that causes no permanent harm.

I remember getting them and not understanding why. Cause, effect - what are they? Never worked well on me for sure. I messed up again and again. Finally my parents gave up on spanking because it just was no use.

Anti-ADHD just wants to be spanked himself I think. I know there are those who'd love to help you - better get mommy's permission before you phone one though it's about 1.99 a minute. I can get you the numbers I'm sure.

I was spanked when I was a child and I have spanked my children. My children are of the age now that spanking really doesn't have an affect on them. It's more affective to take things away from them or to appeal to their sense of reason and what is right and what is wrong. But for a young child that doesn't know right from wrong I think that spanking, when done right, can be a very affective disipline.

When my own parents spanked me it was usually something that was done right away to get my immediate attention, as in the example of running in the road, touching something hot, etc. But other times it was done where I was sent to my room with the knowledge that I was going to get a spanking. I was to think about what I had done, my parents (mom or dad) would come and talk to me about what I had done and why I was getting a spanking. I would then get the spanking and then they would hug me and tell me they loved me. I never once felt abused or unloved because I got spanked. I had other friends whose father would spank them, never the mother, and they would used a belt or a switch, or something like that. They never got talked to just a "whooping" and that was that. They did feel abused.

Spanking however does not work for every child. It never worked with my brother ( who had ADHD but not diagnosed until an adult) And it never worked with our daughter who has ADHD, but then again NO form of disipline worked with her. Not time out, positive reinforcement, taking things away, NOTHING. So since it didn't work we quit doing it. But it did work on our other two children. And if feel that if spanking is affective then a child really doesn't get spanked very often.

I am not 100% sure but wasn't it Dr. Spock who said we shouldn't spank our children? And then years later made a public apology for saying that and creating a society of unruley children/adults?

I voted yes because I do spank on occassion. Not as a first line of discipline, however, it happens.
I don't havee kids, but I don't think I will spank my kids if I ever have any. I don't think it was a very effective learning tool for me. I usually felt intensely unloved, but never really got the message to "do better" that the spanking was trying to teach. How effective can spanking be for a kid who can't really control some of his "bad" behavior when that behavior is related to ADHD?

I think lots of structure and encouragement would be more effective than spanking. The hard part for parents is that they will have to give LOTS of attention and instruction to the ADHD kid. That can be draining.

My kids found out that they got hurt when they road their tricycles into the road. They found out that they got hurt when they ran into the road. They found out they would get hurt for trying to put things into electrical circuits, getting into meds, poisons, reaching for knives, trying to touch hot pots.

They found out they would get hurt because Mommy loved them enough to make sure they knew it was a no no! Yes I spanked. I didn't spank for much, but I was determined that the first time would be the last time for my kids to put their lives in danger. Funny thing is, my kids still love me. They knew why they were spanked and how to avoid getting spanked for the same thing in the future.

I stopped spanking for bad behavior because my daughter would just laugh at me and it reached the point where I went to a child psych to find out how to discipline without spanking. If I hadn't, I was afraid I would lose it completely and do some real damage.

Frankly, I wish I had spanked my son more for outright defience. Maybe my son wouldn't be so mouthy now. Anti, my son would still have ADHD even if I had spanked more. He just might have learned to be a bit more respectful of his mother while he was bouncing off the walls!

The only times I was scared of my parents were when I did something dangerous. WOW! The yelling and spanking and the arm grabbing and the tippy toe walking...*very scared child. It was impossible for even my clueless ADHD self to miss the point -- or forget it either.

I don't have kids, but when I do, I will very likely follow the same spanking rule. I know from personal experience that it works. Spanking and scaring my child would be reserved for dangerous mistakes.

Anything repetitive loses its ability to make an impression on my ADHD brain, even punishments.

My opinion -

What you teach your child when you spank is that at some point, resorting to hitting someone is an acceptable choice.

Also, anytime you spank your child, you drive them further away from you. Spanking does not build relationships, it tears them down.

My dad never hit me in all the time he was raising me. (I can't say that about my own children! I have spanked before and totally regret it.)

My one memory of my dad that I will never forget was when I was mouthing off to my dad and he got so mad at me. He came over and he almost slapped me. I really was being disrespectful. I remember he just stopped and left the room. I will forever remember his self-control. It was wonderful to me. I respect my Dad for that choice.

Here is a program that really helps with discipline. If you don't want to spank your child, it is a great place to start. It is called Love and Logic. It really works.

Anti-ADHD: Go get an education.What's the matter Anti? Your elementary school buddies have to go home early? Go try and make some friends your own age.

I am for not spanking your children I dont spank mine and was wondering how many spank theirs.

I think everybody should spank their child the people who dont spank are the ones with the supposedly ADD children their kids dont have add they just have never been disiplined.sorry about the spelling.IMac38943.8332291667nan360:
If you read the whole thread you see that I share your opinion. Might be that we are neighbours and there for have more the same opinion.

And to go by my heart feeling, I don't care how rare it is, if it's a way of controlled way of dicipline, I think it's wrong.

/Kaks
We've spanked on VERY rare occasions; only for safety issues OR for being outright defiant.OMG!!!! I can't believe this! With a paddle?????

I have no kids but I would NEVER EVER lay my hands on them. I can't even put words on what I think of those who do that.

I don't want my children to fear me, I want to earn their respect as they will have to earn mine. My love will they always have though.

My parent never ever hurted me in any way on purpose but when my dad stood infront of me breathing heavyly I know I was in real trouble and that was enought. And spanking IS hurting, no matter how you do it. My parent talked to me, they explained what I did wrong adn what would have been the right way to do. They explained what the consequense could be, like getting hit by a car for running out the street. And it helped, I understood but perhaps I and my friends were very much smarter that your kids *get ny point*

Violence born violence.

As Annidiagnostini said, the kids are taught by spanking that it's ok to hit someone if the kid think he/she is doing something wrong. And how can we teach them to not hit their friends when we say it's ok for us to spank them which is the same as hitting? And at what age do they become the ones whos allowed to spank and not be the one spanked? If we have the right to spank them when they do wrong, do they have the right to hit us when we do wrong, cos we do from time to time?

I'm very very greatful that in the beginning of the 70' it came a law in Sweden saying that you are not allowed to spank/hit/abuse your children in any way, not in school, not in your home and nowhere else.

OK that's what my heart say reading this. But it also raise a question. How do you spank them? Do you put them over your knees with their pant down and use your hand/paddle och a belt? Is it a sort of cermoni around it or do you simply take them in the arm, force them in the kitchen, put theire hand on the table and hit with something? I'm honestly woundering about this, sp please explain to me.

/Kaks
Oh and btw, why did ppl jump on me when I asked if this was a conservative subject without wanting to discuss the subject it self?

Now someone brings it up and even ask if you do, not only what you think of it and noone gets even angry.

I so confused and honestly I don't understand. I think I was very unfairly treated then and considering how you respons to this thread I feel even more confused and mistreated.

Can someone explain the diference would I be greatful.

/Kaks

For those of you who hit/spank your children, how hard do you hit/spank them? and on what biological/physiological evidence do you base your choice of "spanking power"?

Do you just tap?

If so then how hard is a "tap"? and if it is only as light as its name indicates what would be the point of delivering it to your childs body?

Do you use minimum force but enough to hurt?

If so how hard is "minimum force"? and are you coherent with the most up to date information on the physicallities of a childs body?

So, how do you know how hard to hit/spank them? a tap to you may be a belt to them, recently in UK this has been a massive media issue. It was found that in a massive 9000 children tested (under the age of 12) the pain threshold was seen to fluctuate by almost twice its own power, in laymens terms if you took the two children from each end of the test spectrum one could virtually ignore a hard spank whilst the other child could be incapacitated by what we would see as the mildest of "taps".

So once again, getting back on to the topic of this thread, how do you know how hard to hit/spank your children?

Stop attacking each other and nit-picking the meaning of conversations that have virtually no bearing on this topic. We are supposed to be debating the corporal punishment of children.

Also, and I am sorry for the length of this thread, dont see this post as a personal attack on ANYONE, I am simlpy debating.

Yes and...... *woundering*

Is it my fault that you don't read what I write and jump into conclusions and accuse me of thing I've never said? *slowly and confused*

I get that I'm pointing out that it's not my fault cos I don't think it is. What I don't get is that you think I'm wrong in that.

I try to explain:

     If you write: I think you're lazy :-)
     I interpred it like and say: WTF do you call me useless for? how rude!
     You explain: No you misunderstood me. I was kidding, that's why I put the smiley in the end.

Should you apologize to me in this case?
I think I should apologize to you for not reading what you wrote and didn't read the whole sentence either so I missed the smiley. And I should also do it cos I accused you of something you didn't mean at all.

Do you see where I get stuck and don't understand?

/Kaks

[QUOTE=Kaks] [QUOTE=Kaks]lilbitcrazy:
Why is it "unforgivably rude and totally uncalled for"?

You must have missed my point. It was that if I could get the msg that I was doing something wrong without being spanked, so can other children. That's why I wrote "*get my point*" so you wouldn't take it liturally.

/Kaks
[/QUOTE]

Tryan:
I tryed, I've read it several times now but:
Here! I do explain my point of veiw straight up and clear.

I take responsible for what I say by makeing my point clear. I don't avoid anything, I stand up for what I said by explaining it again and agian.

I simply can't understand why I should apologize cos someone don't get what I'm writing and even after I explained it, which I did emediatly, in a way that simply can't be misunderstood. I really don't. In my opinion, she, lilbitcrazy should apologize to me for jumping in to conclusions and reading in thing in my msg that's not there and acusing me of things I've never said/wrote.

I'm soooooo lost here.

/Kaks
[/QUOTE]

And again

[QUOTE=Kaks]Yes and...... *woundering*

Is it my fault that you don't read what I write and jump into conclusions and accuse me of thing I've never said? *slowly and confused*

I get that I'm pointing out that it's not my fault cos I don't think it is. What I don't get is that you think I'm wrong in that.

I try to explain:

     If you write: I think you're lazy :-)
     I interpred it like and say: WTF do you call me useless for? how rude!
     You explain: No you misunderstood me. I was kidding, that's why I put the smiley in the end.

Should you apologize to me in this case?
I think I should apologize to you for not reading what you wrote and didn't read the whole sentence either so I missed the smiley. And I should also do it cos I accused you of something you didn't mean at all.

Do you see where I get stuck and don't understand?

/Kaks
[/QUOTE]

Please Tryan, answer this and read carefully the whole msg so you understand what I have problems with. Thx

/Kaks
to just make my point to start with clear:

I simply can't understand why you have to, intentionaly, hurt a child, mentally or psyicaly to show them that you love them.

It's so above my horizon and out of my world so I just can't understand it. For _me_ it's not a way of showing love to anyone but the opposite.

Something you don't understand? Please ask me before jumping into conclusion.

Now I'm going to bed, have a headache and it's 0.23am here

/Kaks

[QUOTE=Kaks] but perhaps I and my friends were very much smarter that your kids *get ny point*

/Kaks
[/QUOTE]

Kaks, I'm not trying to be rude or sarcastic.

You seriously can not understand how this statement could be taken as an insult? You clearly state that you and your friends are very much smarter than our kids. I don't see how I could be misunderstanding.

I don't see where I should apologize for trying to show you that your comment was rude. I didn't make the offensive remark.

[QUOTE=lilbitcrazy]

[QUOTE=Kaks] but perhaps I and my friends were very much smarter that your kids *get ny point*

/Kaks
[/QUOTE]

Kaks, I'm not trying to be rude or sarcastic.

I don't see where I should apologize for trying to show you that your comment was rude. I didn't make the offensive remark.

[/QUOTE]

Sadly I'm still here. Yes I seirously can't understand how that could be an insult
1) because I do not state that me and my friends are smarter than your kids.

2) I state that if I could understand so can your kids cos they are as smart as I am

3) I mean that your kids are as smart as I am so they can understand as much as I did.

4) I say that cos you have so smart kids they don't need to be spanked to understand.

Ok, I can't come up with any other ways of saying this if not to repeat my self. I've quoted myself before where I, the first time, explained what I meant and that didn't help so I hope this will.

I haven't asked for an excuse from you, I was only explaining to Tryan why I didn't think I should apologize to you.

/Kaks
Kaks38781.7006134259Well, Kaks, I sincerely hope that when you have children and you explain everything to them that they understand and correct the behavior. I really hope your children do. My girl, she understands but continues the behavior. She is just like that. I hope yours aren't. Personally I have never spanked for a single thing that was not thoroughly explained that that behavior was wrong, why it was wrong, and the consequence for repeating that behavior. I am sure this is true for most parents. So to say "hey explain to them that it is wrong" is like, not a new idea to us.

Anyway, let's go on our way and agree to disagree OK?

Do you have a greyhound? I saw your icon, which looked like a greyhound, and have 2 greys myself.

K - I think your point is easy to understand. And, I'm sure that when the laws were being enacted in Sweden, the vote did not include only people who have given birth to children.

The truth is that all adults in society are responsible for the children in our communities. All pay for their education. All are part of the society that determines how to define child abuse, etc.

I think that your opinion is valid. It is different from the average American opinion but that doesn't make it unimportant here.

(Afterall, the average American would not see the average form of discipline in some other countries toward children and other family members as the best approach.)

However, corporal punishment has also become less accepted in the USA over the years. It has been banned in most schools, and more and more restrictive laws are being passed about the type of corporal punishment parents are allowed to use.

Many things that were considered discipline twenty years ago are now considered abuse. IMO, it is likely that we will continue to move in this direction, and eventually corporal punishment will not be legal here either.

I think this is once again getting off the subject of the debate, so I will bow out on this little one and agree to not use the term Corporal Punishment again. I dont wish to get into personal arguments with anyone on here, I come here to stimlate my mind whilst I am working in the office, and if changing my terminology for the duration of a thread means I get to debate what that thread is actually about in full, then I am happy to do it.

What would you rather I say, spanking, physical punishment, pain associated attitude re-adjustment, a slap...

I do apologize for my part in the "nit-picking." The whole thing became ridiculous.

I have spanked my children. My definition of a spanking is a couple of swats to their rear-end, simply to get their attention that I am serious. It is NOT delivered to their bare butt, or with a belt etc.

IMO a child can be hurt just as much verbally, if not more so. Hurtful, derogatory and demeaning words used toward a child will do more damage to a child's self-esteem than a couple swats to their rear-end. It is a battle I've had many times with my husband. I will not allow any words or comments that attack my children's intelligence. I suppose that is where my anger at Kaks words came from.

This is a subject that many will not ever agree on. There seems to be no middle ground. You can not judge another unless you have walked in their shoes.

When I have spanked one of my children it is always followed by love, hugs and kisses, and plenty of talking. I will apologize and explain that what they did is not acceptable and can not happen again.

Corporal-punishment=Abuse

Corporal punishment - punishment inflicted directly on the body, as in flogging

flog - to beat with a strap, stick, whip etc.

Corporal punishment is not IMO the same as a spanking.

thejestersmuse:
I'm so on your side. You write my thoughts.

And I can also agree with lilbitcrazy that abusive words is neither allowed. You don't tell your shild to "Shut up" or "Your to stupid to understand" or something like that, IMO.

/Kaks

[QUOTE=oldtimer]How does that teach problem solving though?[/QUOTE]

Something effects EVERYONE, young or old. If you find that something, you have leverage, you make deals, your give and take trust, you help each other out by looking for different solutions.

Getting abreast of a problematic childs behaviour is probably one of the best ways to teach and learn problem solving. When my children were younger none of my friends or family would have them for more than an hour or so, they were that bad.

I dont disagree that this is a hard time, but if you persever, the respect you earn from each other will last a lifetime. And it passes to them too, they look at things with more reason, for example, they know that I love them without boundry but they also know that I have ADHD so I am gonna forget special days, be late for school plays, change my mind real fast, put EVERYTHING off... but they try to deal with me as I deal with them. They find things that affect me and by God do they use them.

[QUOTE=lilbitcrazy]

Corporal-punishment=Abuse

Corporal punishment - punishment inflicted directly on the body, as in flogging

flog - to beat with a strap, stick, whip etc.

Corporal punishment is not IMO the same as a spanking.

[/QUOTE]

Firstly lilbitcrazy, dont take this as a personal attack,

But...

The dictionary definitions of terms our generation and generations past use in everyday speak often vary from what they actually mean to us. I dont know about the states, but I have worked in all corners of the globe, in most languages, Corporal Punishment = Physical Punishment (Of any form).

We could pick other words and break them down into their root meanings, but there is no point. We know what it means to us.

However, I do very much agree with your thoughts on there being no middle ground on this subject. But it is truly excellent debating material.

Corporal punishment is a term that was used in past generations.

The meaning of corporal punishment to me is a beating, which equals abuse. And it in no way defines the spankings I have given my children.

If the dictionary can't be used to define the basic meaning of a word than what good is a dictionary?

Correct, but that has more to do with rules of society than anything else.

Heres a real example: I told my dad to kiss my @$$ and go to H3II, when i was 2 1/2yo. He beat me till I couldn't breathe and my mom told him 'If you hit him again " I will kill you"(still remember the 'beating',right or wrong)'.

The point should never be anger, but disappointment in performance or forethought. This works for a lot of kids, but not for ADHD kids. You should never touch a child while you are the least bit angry, things can get carried away quickly while insensed and wind up in court or worse, a hospital.

My dad has not yet won my approval or acceptance for his behaviour, and is too late to try.

TheDog:
Thank you for telling me you understand, I needed to hear that from someone :-)

thejestersmuse:
I get you point and I believe the same. It is a pain to the child, physical or mental but I guess that's the point or isn't it?

I mean like this:
Is the point of spanking a child to make it hurt in _some way_ so they understand that what they had done were so bad so it's gonna hurt doing it again?

But I still have a few question that I would really want someone to answer to make me understand your point of veiw:

1) How can we teach a kid to _not_ hit their friends when the kid think the friend have put it self or some other in danger when we say it's ok for us to spank them of the very same reason?

2) At what age do they become the ones whos allowed to spank and not be the one getting spanked?

3) If we have the right to spank children when they do wrong, do they have the right to hit us when we do wrong, cos we do from time to time? Or should perhaps our husband/wife do that to us?

(I realize this last question can be offencive but it's ment as an honest question and a suggestion to a solution and wounder if it's correct)

/Kaks
i don't have children so i can't answer the 'how hard do i....' but having been on the receiving end as far as i remember it didn't hurt really (perhaps i was one of those kids with a high pain threshold, probably true - because i often used to fall out of trees, off horses, i got a black eye from standing behind my sister when she was playing table-tennis and brought back the bat straight into my face when attempting to smash the ball and they hurt but not so as i would cry - more like hopping about going ow, ow, ow for five minutes and then getting on with something else...).

so for me, it didn't hurt and it wasn't about the hurting anyway - it was about the having done something SO WRONG that you were going to be spanked for it! that was far more of the impression. it simply didn't hurt at all - but nonetheless made a huge impression because it was obviously SO SERIOUS.

Fair point, I would say that this is not a form of corporal punishment as you do not hit hard enough to cause physical pain, this would be more of a psychological punishment, showing a child that they have done something SO WRONG that you have to resort to something that neither of you wish to do, the childs pain would be mental and emotional rather than a stinging butt or a red thigh.

Although I disagree with corporal punishment in any form, you have shown a fair side of the argument and although I would never do this myself, I can understand the methodology of such a routine.

And its also worth knowing a little known fact, up until about (on a standard child with no history of abuse or extreme pain) the puberty stage of life the human pain response (threshold) is governed 100% by the body's own physical nervous system. After this point (also referred to as the age of innocence) the pain threshold is modified and elasticated / shrunk by the young adults psyco-sematic proceses. Meaning basically, we learn to absorve pain rather than be shocked by it.

We simply do not have the psycological make up to do this at a young age, meaning that whatever pain is inflicted on us, we have to bear at its full capacity.

For Kaks,

I cant answer any of those questions because my side of this argument stops me from being able to, I dont beleive at any point in ANYONES life they should have someone "superior" in one form or another, be able to hurt them physically.

By superior I mean, parent, elder, partner etc... who believes they have the right to hit.

For everyone who is pro-corporal punishment,

I am not saying that disciplining any child is easy, nor do I profess to have all the answers. What I will say though is this, there is ALWAYS a way of communicating your anger, distress or fear to a child. Get to know your children, find out what they love, hate, fear... that is the way to get to them when they need to be brought in to line.

Discipline needs to be carried out 100% of the time, not wanting to sound like a monster, but children need routine and rules. If you let them rules slip even once, that child (for the rest of his young years) will push that rule under the illusion that you let him break it once, you will do it again.

Charges and sentences for assault and harm are getting harsher by the year, I dont think that any one of us would want to see our child in prison ten years down the line because they hit someone for breaking the rules.

For non-spanking parents,

Well done, its so hard at times to keep control, but it WILL be worth it. In the years when you have grandchildren and possibly great grandchildren, your perseverance and love will be seen in them. As will the discipline you started all these years back.

.IMac38943.8283680556How does that teach problem solving though? It is last rezort here. I was told try behavior therapy. Some kids careless what the punishment is. I was one of those kids. Some will do what they want regardless. This was before odd dx even was a issue. I know now not the best choice to make. Some only will learn the hard way. Just my opinion on this though. RNcarylene:
Thank you, now I know what you mean about parental love and then no I don't know and I'll only repeat so you didn't miss that I have never questioned your love for your children.

chjones:
Thank you for explaining to me how it's done in your family.

IMac:
Thank you for seeing that I can have a point too even without children of my own.

Tryan and Glen:
For once I get passionated about something and let it out here. I didn't want to point a finger at anybody so I wrote what I thought, that specific sentece, in a very unspecific way. I still think you guys are great ppl but that part of your way of handeling children I simply can't agree with. I've got many more and stronger words for what I feel but I don't write them. So look at it as me for once telling you straight up what I think and not tiptoe as I always others do for you.
Oh and I don't point out anyone specificaly, remember that.

[QUOTE=Kaks]

I don't want my children to fear me, I want to earn their respect as they will have to earn mine. My love will they always have though. [/QUOTE]

chjones:
The above surely shows that I also dislike, to use a lame word, anything that would make my children to fear me. That includes mentally abuse as well.

Glen:
My parents never layed their hand on me but I've always known that I can trust them in every situation. I knew and still know that they love me and my sister above all and do anything for us.

Example:
When I was a teenager and never spoke a word to my parents for weeks, were hardly ever at home and other typicall teenage behavior, a friend of mine got in trouble with the police but were released an hour later. They wanted to call her parent but I said I could do it, well aware of that her parent wouldn't even bother to come for her. I called my parents and asked if they could pick us up. I did it cos she was my friend and I do anything for my friends and my parents knew that so they came. At 4am in the morning they took the car in to town to pick up someone else kid cos it was important to _me_.

When I was younger (6-15yo) I was harassed in school so I hated it but I refused to switch school. When it got too bad some days I ran home. My dad worked at home and when I came, he tryed to talk to me, if I didn't want to he simply said "You know where to find me". The theacher called next day and yelled at my parents for me being running home again. Even when I was a teenager and were suposed to talk to the theacher myself and explain, my parents took that call and explained to the theacher that as long as they don't do anything about my situation they wouldn't force me to school.

For a couple of years ago I was really depressed. I couldn't handle my family, lyckely I live 700km apart from them. I asked my parents to not call me until I called them and that could be once ever three month and they said ofcourse. They did that cos they love me.

end of examples :-)

I can always trust my parents and have always done that and that whitout being spanked at all. They have earned my trust, love and respect anyway.

[QUOTE=Kaks]

As Annidiagnostini said, the kids are taught by spanking that it's ok to hit someone if the kid think he/she is doing something wrong.

1) And how can we teach them to not hit their friends when we say it's ok for us to spank them which is the same as hitting?

2) And at what age do they become the ones whos allowed to spank and not be the one spanked?

3) If we have the right to spank them when they do wrong, do they have the right to hit us when we do wrong, cos we do from time to time?

/Kaks
[/QUOTE]

I've edited the quote a bit only to make it easier to read.

Can someone, please answer my above questions? I'm curious.

[QUOTE=Kaks] perhaps I and my friends were very much smarter that your kids *get ny point*

/Kaks
[/QUOTE]

That is so unforgivably rude and totally uncalled for.

lilbitcrazy38781.5483564815lilbitcrazy:
Why is it "unforgivably rude and totally uncalled for"?

You must have missed my point. It was that if I could get the msg that I was doing something wrong without being spanked, so can other children. That's why I wrote "*get my point*" so you wouldn't take it liturally.

/Kaks

No........what you said was this

perhaps I and my friends were very much smarter that your kids

If you cant see the rudeness in that, I am sorry for you....

[QUOTE=Kaks]
perhaps I and my friends were very much smarter that your kids *get ny point*

[/QUOTE]

....is the correct quote. And I just explained what my point was cos I realized somebody didn't understand the "*get my point*"-part.

So, no I wasn't rude but misunderstood yes.

/Kaks

I saw the 'get my point" indication....still comes across as rude.....sorry....

Maybe you meant something different....maybe you should reread your posts before submitting them....yes?

Well I did take it literally, because you literally said our children are stupid. That is something any GOOD parent would never do.

So my son is too stupid to understand that he could get hit by a car and injured or killed. And after repeatedly explaining to him that he could not run into the road or across the parking lot because it was dangerous, he continued to do it and so therefore according to you he is stupid. And because I spanked his little butt for it that, according to you, makes me a bad, unloving parent.

I believe I understand the point you were making. Maybe it is you who doesn't understand what you are implying.

[QUOTE=Kaks]lilbitcrazy:
You must have missed my point. It was that if I could get the msg that I was doing something wrong without being spanked, so can other children. That's why I wrote "*get my point*" so you wouldn't take it liturally.

/Kaks
[/QUOTE]

That means I think your children are as smart as I or any other children.

[QUOTE=Kaks]
I have never doubted how ever you loved your children, I'm totaly sure you love them very much. But for me love has nothing to do with hiting a child.

[/QUOTE]

I'm very sure you do love your children very much as I've already said as you see. That has nothing to do with it.

/Kaks
[QUOTE=Kaks]
You must have missed my point. It was that if I could get the msg that I was doing something wrong without being spanked, so can other children. That's why I wrote "*get my point*" so you wouldn't take it liturally.

/Kaks
[/QUOTE]

"Sorry" accepted Tryan, but read my msg before, the one I quote here. There I gave you my point straight up so I didn't think it was necesairly to do it again to you too.

And I do reread my msg but noone seems to read what it says, ppl seems to read part of it or interpret things betwen the lines that aren't there.

/Kaks *calmly and a bit sad of constantly being misunderstood*

As I said, I believe I understand the point you were making. You made yourself loud and clear. Thanks, anyway!!

lilbitcrazy:
Why don't you read what I write instead of things inbetwen that I don't write and don't mean?

But on the other hand, if you want to take it that way, it's nothing more I can do. I've tryed to explain and make my point of veiw even clearer for you but if you don't want to understand.... well.... that's nothing I can change.

Be well
/Kaks

A simple apology would have worked wonders, Kaks.

"I'm sorry, that's not the way I meant it."

You could have taken back what you wrote and the implied meaning that children who can not understand reasoning are therefore not as smart.

But I never implied that so why should I be sorry?

I explained in my first msg to you what I meant and I pointed out in earlier msg that I didn't say anything about whether you love your children or not. I assumed you've read all the posts in this thread, is that wrong of me?

I don't get it, why should I be sorry and apologize for you misunderstanding me and not reading what I write?

/Kaks *confused*
WOW, its hot in here, bloody hell, i'l be getting a fist though my screen next, sh*t me!!!

Well here's my bit..
When i was child free, i never imagined being a mum & when i got old enough to start imagining what sort of mum i would be, i imagined my-self to be a good mum, one of my thoughts was that i would never smack(spank) my children, I was smacked as a child but very rare & as i grew up i understood why, its hard for kaks to understand this is another way of showing a form of love to your child, this can be quite confussing but ive heard some perents say "its becoz i love you".
I never understood that i thought it was to teach me a leason?
So now i have children i hate my self for being two faced about this but anger does take over somtimes, i have smacked my boys in the passed but on the rare occasion i hate my self for doing so becoz im against smacking, i cant remeber the last time i smacked my boys, my little girl is too young to be smacked but i hope i will never do that to her.
So my views are still the same but i have smacked, this may be the same for kaks when she has her children, she may stick to what she is saying & well done to her if she does becoz there are other ways of getting over to children what you want them to do or not do.
People do say things on what they might do or not do on a situation they have not yet experienced it, but may feel different actually having the experence, no-one know's until the time, like me i said i would never smack, but now i have children, i sometimes feel it neccasary, but only very rare.& im sorry, this is the way it is.

[QUOTE=Kaks]But I never implied that so why should I be sorry?

I explained in my first msg to you what I meant and I pointed out in earlier msg that I didn't say anything about whether you love your children or not. I assumed you've read all the posts in this thread, is that wrong of me?

I don't get it, why should I be sorry and apologize for you misunderstanding me and not reading what I write?

/Kaks *confused*
[/QUOTE]

Kaks.....dear.....maybe, just maybe, if you had explained your point more precisely without implying that the misunderstanding was a comprehension problem on the part of the others instead of what it was (a poorly thought out sentence on your part)....this whole scenario would be over by now?

Do you follow?.....all lilbitcrazy was implying was that if you write a sentence that blatantly rude (whatever you actual meaning was).....etiquette would dictate that you apologize for having offended anyone and then explain youself....

Go back and reread what you wrote through the eyes of others and maybe you'll see what we mean......you didnt take responsibility for it, you simply implied that we failed to "understand" your meaning......

[QUOTE=Kaks]lilbitcrazy:
Why is it "unforgivably rude and totally uncalled for"?

You must have missed my point. It was that if I could get the msg that I was doing something wrong without being spanked, so can other children. That's why I wrote "*get my point*" so you wouldn't take it liturally.

/Kaks
[/QUOTE]

Tryan:
I tryed, I've read it several times now but:
Here! I do explain my point of veiw straight up and clear.

I take responsible for what I say by makeing my point clear. I don't avoid anything, I stand up for what I said by explaining it again and agian.

I simply can't understand why I should apologize cos someone don't get what I'm writing and even after I explained it, which I did emediatly, in a way that simply can't be misunderstood. I really don't. In my opinion, she, lilbitcrazy should apologize to me for jumping in to conclusions and reading in thing in my msg that's not there and acusing me of things I've never said/wrote.

I'm soooooo lost here.

/Kaks

Okay....I guess I will have to point it out to you then ......

Here you are implying that the fault was with us....not you

[QUOTE=Kaks] [QUOTE=Kaks]
perhaps I and my friends were very much smarter that your kids *get ny point*

[/QUOTE]

....is the correct quote. And I just explained what my point was cos I realized somebody didn't understand the "*get my point*"-part.

So, no I wasn't rude but misunderstood yes.

/Kaks
[/QUOTE]

Here you are doing it again...........

[QUOTE=Kaks]lilbitcrazy:
Why don't you read what I write instead of things inbetwen that I don't write and don't mean?

But on the other hand, if you want to take it that way, it's nothing more I can do. I've tryed to explain and make my point of veiw even clearer for you but if you don't want to understand.... well.... that's nothing I can change.

Be well
/Kaks
[/QUOTE]

And again

And again....

Kaks is NOT being crass, she is being herself, which is Aspergers. Please STOP assuming her intentions. Autism is a broad spectrum. Asking questions like this typical. She is an intelligent and curious young woman with Aspergers Syndrome; when she asks a question it is genuine. She can Not be anything else but who she is.
Please read the characteristics of Aspergers on this site. You will better understand where she is coming from.

http://autism.about.com/cs/adultswithasd/a/adults_w_asperg.h tm?terms=famous+people+with+down+syndrome

Kaks, in answer to your question. I was beat with a belt. Not spanked. Yes, there is a big difference. Leaving bruises did nothing for me but make me fearful of being hurt. I learned to fear, hide and lie, so that I wouldn't get hit.

On the other hand, I know MANY people who were spanked. Their memories
are very different than mine. Some, it made them feel loved, because boundries were set, somehow they understood what they did wrong and learned from it.
Perhaps these were children who knew they were loved and felt secure to begin with.

Spanking did not work on my daughter, I only had to try it a couple of times before I realized this. Taking privleges away worked much better and finding consequences to fit the unwanted behavior. Once I spanked her with a frisbee because she threw it into the street and ran after it. It scared me so badly. I did not spank her in anger, but in fear.

Consequences work differently on different children because they, like us, are each individual and unique. It is a HUGE responsibility for the parent to decide which form they are going to choose, to reevaluate if it does not work, not to be afraid to change if it is not working, be consistant, but above all things - Only discipline in LOVE!

IMO -Beating is always wrong. Spanking, when understood by the child as a consequence of their behavior is not wrong. There is a huge difference between the two. Spanking in Anger is Never ok.

Right now the poll is 50/50 - that is interesting

[QUOTE=carylene]

[QUOTE=Kaks]I have no kids
/Kaks
[/QUOTE]

Enjoy your time without children. As they say, it's the last time you'll have all the answers regarding child rearing.

[/QUOTE]

Well then I have something to learn cos I don't have all the answers regarding children but I do have an opinion whom I'm entitled to.

/Kaks
[QUOTE=Kaks] [QUOTE=carylene]

[QUOTE=Kaks]I have no kids
/Kaks
[/QUOTE]

Enjoy your time without children. As they say, it's the last time you'll have all the answers regarding child rearing.

[/QUOTE]

Well then I have something to learn cos I don't have all the answers regarding children but I do have an opinion whom I'm entitled to.

/Kaks
[/QUOTE]

You are entitled to your opinion, but until your opinion is tested by the practicality of life, maybe its best not to condemn those of us with the actual experience.

[QUOTE=Kaks]I have no kids
/Kaks
[/QUOTE]

Enjoy your time without children. As they say, it's the last time you'll have all the answers regarding child rearing.

[QUOTE=Tryan920][QUOTE=Kaks] [QUOTE=carylene]

[QUOTE=Kaks]I have no kids
/Kaks
[/QUOTE]

Enjoy your time without children. As they say, it's the last time you'll have all the answers regarding child rearing.

[/QUOTE]

Well then I have something to learn cos I don't have all the answers regarding children but I do have an opinion whom I'm entitled to.

/Kaks
[/QUOTE]

You are entitled to your opinion, but until your opinion is tested by the practicality of life, maybe its best not to condemn those of us with the actual experience.

[/QUOTE]

Exactly. Sometimes your ideas before the fact don't add up.

Spanking is a form of discipline. It isn't the only form of discipline. It is one form that some use. To ask if we force our kids to the kitchen and hit them with something is totally and completely offensive. Parents who spank as well as parents who don't both love their children. Parental love. Again something you will have NO comprehension of until you have a child.
[QUOTE=Kaks]I'm honestly woundering about this, sp please explain to me.

/Kaks
[/QUOTE]

carylene:
Does that sentence mean anything to you? I'm _asking_ for an explanation to _how_ you do cos I don't know. I've never seen anybody spank their children in disipline purpose except in movies from the 40' and I don't think you do like that so I asked. How can that be offensive? I simply want to know.

If "parental love" is the love parents have for their children, I do know what it is. I'm a child, we all are and I have parents who love me with the love of a parent. I have never doubted how ever you loved your children, I'm totaly sure you love them very much. But for me love has nothing to do with hiting a child.

And I'm not the only one who's against spanking in this disscusion. And one of them who's against it also said he/she has no children but..... You didn't condem her/him. Just something to think of.

And again, why jump on me? *rhetorical* I don't get it.

/Kaks
To me you come off as holier than thou. Very much so. Not understanding that only demonstrates the point. You can see parental love by your parents, but IMO you can never love them like they love you. You won't know the scope of your parents love until you experience that with your child, and only then you will know that how you feel for that child, your parents feel for you, not experience that type of love towards your parents.

There are things I don't understand. When I hear married couples say that marriage takes a tremendous amount of work I have NO idea what they are talking about. Intellectually I can understand it, but I don't really KNOW. I have never been married. So I really don't have a clue.

hey kaks

well the way it went in my family re. spanking. it was incredibly rare - i think i got spanked possibly three times in total and each time it was when i had either put myself or one of my siblings in danger.

and to answer your question - what happened was my mother sent me to my room and came up and spanked me with her hand on my bottom maybe five times (it didn't hurt ---- it was more the fact that i really, really, really must have done something wrong to get spanked). and i think it was her way of making sure it made an impact and that it wouldn't happen again (like trying to push my sister down a whole flight of stairs etc. etc.).

having been spanked as a child - albeit just a little bit - i don't have a problem with it except when it is used as a way for the parent to release their own anger. that to me seems entirely wrong. as a way to underline the seriousness of a potentially fatal action - i think it is fine and not harmful as it goes. but spanking or shouting or hitting or any sort of aggression toward a child as a result of the parents own loss of control is always going to be harmful.

on the few times that my mother spanked me - it was never a loss of her own self-control. it was never striking out in anger. i think that is where the danger lies more than in the action of spanking. i know of some parents who have never laid a finger on their child but mentally - the violence, the shouting, the aggression, the emotional torture is just as bad in my opinion - their kids are as terrified of them as much as if their father beat them up... constantly walking on egg-shells, jumpy and tip-toeing and trying not to do anything that might set their dad off.........

i don't think spanking is necessary - but i also don't think it is necessarily as harmful as you might imagine having never been spanked. if i can put that way.

it depends far more on whether the parent has a loss of control or is using the child as a punch-bag for their own anger issues or not. and oftentimes i believe that by being strong and willing to discipline your child to protect them - you are showing far more love toward the child than if you are scared to discipline them because you don't care to be seen as the 'nasty one'. by taking responsibility, by showing that child that you will protect them from themselves, by giving them guidelines and rules --- you give them freedom not to worry because they know that you are looking out for them, you are protecting them and they can trust you to do that - no matter whether you turn round and say "it's not fair! i hate you mummy!" in the end i think any child prefers the security of a loving, responsible parent than one who won't take the responsibility for fear of rejection and a temporarily cross child - because then the child has the burden of having to be responsible for itself and become esssentially an adult before it has a chance to have a childhood.

.IMac38943.8273263889.IMac38943.8276157407

I simply can't fathom why it is so hard for people to recognize the distinction between spanking and beating..

I was spanked as a child, yet I do not go around beating the crap out of people who annoy me or make me mad.........

Spanking has nothing to do with anger.....if it is, then, as I said before, you shouldnt be doing it......

And....again....everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but as a general rule I tend to question the validity of someones convictions till they are actually tested.

[QUOTE=Kaks]

I have no kids but I would NEVER EVER lay my hands on them. I can't even put words on what I think of those who do that.

My parent talked to me, they explained what I did wrong adn what would have been the right way to do. They explained what the consequense could be, like getting hit by a car for running out the street. And it helped, I understood but perhaps I and my friends were very much smarter that your kids *get ny point*

/Kaks
[/QUOTE]

And Imac.....you point the finger at us for "invalidating her feeling".....did you miss these parts of the post?....or were you too busy rushing to the defense of the person on your side of the fence to realize the crassness of what was written?

To each his own.......but to be this arrogant on a subject on which she has no personal experience is just annoying.......

I TOTALLY agree Tryan! The words "I can't even put words on what I think of others that do that" say it all.

People have spanked their children since before the written word. It's typically used by parents when they must make a strong and solid point to the child that what has been done is unacceptable or dangerous.

I was spanked when all else failed. Or - when I did one of my infamous dangerous things I always did - throw a knife, endanger myself or someone else, walk into traffic, etc. It was always merited and was done in order to make the strongest emphasis on what they were trying to get across.

I am a pacifist now. I won't hit unless defending myself or others. I don't strike out in anger or for any other reason. I never had to spank with my exgf's children but there never was a situation that needed it. They weren't in imminate danger or causing other's to be harmed so there were options.

But if I became a parent spanking would be available to me - for circumstances that were particularly needing it. Thankfully the Canadian justice system has decided that this kind of punishment could be used - but under special circumstances and with only reasonable force.

I never saw it as being ok to hit another person. It was delivered by my parents and understood that something I did was so bad that it was time for me to be spanked. I knew that I was being punished and they explained afterwards why and that they did it because they were scared and wanted me to stop what I was doing now and always. I didn't always get the point but of course I have ADHD. My sisters had much better luck with remembering.

Kaks - each person has to decide what constitues punishment for their children. No sane parent thinks beating or otherwise using physical force is allowable behavior. But spanking is not beating. I think kids would turn out better if we took a page from our parent's code of behavior and started again.

Exactly what Tyran said, I am not as eloquent.