ODD and ADHD | ADHD Information
The link I provided will tell you about juvenile bipolar. If he's so bad he's to the point you want to throw him out, he could well have it and stimulants make that worse, even with co-morbid ADHD. ODD is a huge symptom of bipolar and the kids really can't control themselves without the right meds, ADHD meds NOT being the right meds. You can also go to the Conduct Disorders board. Lots of kids there have bipolar and many were first dxd. especially as ADHD/ODD. You can talk to parents who have been there before you. Therapy without the right meds will not help if he has a serious mood disorder as he can WANT to change, but his disease will not allow him to change. Trust me, been there/done that. You know right from wrong, but you just can't dp it when your brain chemistry is screwed up. Bipolar usually kicks up, if not treated with mood stabilizers, when a child is a teenager. That's when mine REALLY came out, and my parents suffered too, but nothing nearly how I did. After all, I was the one out of control and, secretly, I was terrified. Violence is not a symptom of ADHD. It denotes more. I wish you luck. OlderMom38793.571712963Pullingouthair, I have a 17 year old son with ODD and Cyclothymic disorder. Like your son, he has not been raised in a hostile or confrontational environment. He has anger management issues, is quite impulsive, and very manipulative. Yes, we have been through the process of trying to talk with other people, and being told that his behaviors are "normal teenage stuff." We even heard this from our own doctor on several occasions, until my husband dragged our son out to see him in the middle of one of his tirades. Then, the doctor said, "I thought that this was normal teenage behavior, but now I see that it's so much more!" Our son has been in trouble in the home, school, and community. Therapy has not worked with him, because of his manipulation and lack of insight (it's always someone else's fault, not his). He has been on Respirdal for about 11/2 years now, and this seems to be about the only thing that helps. His basic problems remain, but the respirdal takes the edge off his anger, and makes him more manageable. I guess that the best advice that I can give is to be consistent in your discipline, otherwise, he will always remember the times that you have given in. If he tries to argue (our son is a champion at this), walk away. If you stay and argue, it adds fuel to the fire. It also helps to encourage their involvement in constructive activities outside of the home. We make our son work to earn his own spending money. He is also involved in sports. Activities such as these increase their self- esteem, and they also give the rest of the family a much needed break. Good luck!IMac38945.8841782407This is my first post here. My son is Tyler and he is almost 6. From very early on, it was apparent to me that Tyler was suffering from something. I have a 8 year old daughter as well. I had no one to talk to. When I would describe his tantrums, I was told that he was just a boy. At the beginning of the school year this year, I was terrified for him to start Kindergarten.
I took him for an evaluation at a Psychologist, much to my ex-husband's dislike. For some reason, I was comforted to be reassured that he was definitely ADHD. He started Ritalin and while it is in effect he is a different child.
He also received a diagnosis of ODD. I am scared to death for his future. He is constantly angry and throws violent fits. I am afraid that he is going to hurt someone at times. How can my sweet baby boy be violent. I would love to hear any suggestions or stories of hope.
The prognosis given by the Psychologist is not good. He was worried that someone this young could display such extreme symptoms. He was in play therapy for awhile, but I have lost confidence in this actually helping. I am now considering mood stablizing meds. I would love any feedback on personal experiences with these medications.
I am sorry that this post is so long, but this is the first time that I have been able to vent.
Tyler's Mom, if your son has violent tantrums, I'd try to learn about early onset bipolar. 80% of the time, with early onset bipolar, ADHD also fits the criteria. ODD is more a description of symptoms than a diangosis and a combo of ADHD/ODD is often, if not usually, early onset bipolar (you will probably visit this diagnosis some day). Stims don't help. Bipolar is far more hopeful than ODD, which, again, is rarely the whole diagnosis. Here is a site on early onset bipolar. You may want a second opinion by a different Psychiatrist. We had to see a few before we got it right. My son's first dx. was also ADHD/ODD, but that was wrong.
.IMac38945.8853009259Hi pullingouthair,
Has your son been seen by any doctor. It sounds like that may be what you need to do first. I have ADD and had anger issues when I was a child and also depression. I think if my parents had taken me to the proper doctors my life may have been easier. As an adult I still deal with out of control anger at times but being in therapy helps with that a great deal. Only the proper doctor can evaluate your son and help you find out what you can do to help him. I think that would be the best thing to do for your son right not. That is the first step. I don't know how bad the ODD is with your son but you really should get some help right away so he doesn't get into some serious trouble. Please keep posting and let us know what is happening. My heart goes out to you. I have a pre-teen daughter with ADD and I am dealing with her issues as we go along. The best of luck to you. Dee
Hi i'm pullingouthair , since logging onto AD sites i have discovered about Oppositional Defiant Disorder. The symptoms of this describe my son down to the ground, although i can say he was not brought up in a constanly hostile and confrontational enviroment, which can increased the risk of a child having ODD. After talking to other people about this condition, nearly all of which said that the sypmtoms are that of every other teenager in the world i don't know wether i should ask his doctor about this. If anyone knows anything about this or are living with this i would be very greatful to any help offered. I also don't know about depression with ad, could my son by depresssed as well? It's hard to tell with him as he doesn't show emotions anyway apart from anger.
pullingouthair
Our son would like boxing lessons more than anything, and has mentioned martial arts classes. However, we have refused. He has such a violent temper, and has assaulted other people in the past. I know that they say that for some kids, the martial arts helps them to gain control. However, we are still hesitant. He seems to think its "cool" to lose control and be a hothead. He has no desire to control himself. He does take part in football, baseball, and soccer. We stopped giving our son jobs to do around the house several years ago, because he would not do them. He would ask to borrow money, and his dad would give it to him with the agreement that he woud do a specific chore later. Well, guess what? The chore would never get done! Then, it would turn into a major power struggle. So, when he turned 14, we took him off chore duty altogether and made him get a job out in the community. Fortunately, he worships money (although he hates working for it). We love it, though, because he's out of the house for several evenings a week
! I can relate to what you were saying about his not giving a damn about what anyone says. If our son is not hearing what he wants to hear, he automatically thinks that everyone else is wrong.
Hi steppingstone,
We found corey's temper was more controlled when he was doing martial arts , they are not allowed to lose control. I think you should try him and tell him the instructors won't stand for it so they'll not let him do did. But then again they spar with adults as well during classes so i'm sur if he lost it someone will accidently on purpose get him back. This happened to corey on several occassions
and it never did him any harm. I wish he'd take another sport.
Your last sentence is so true
Sounds like your son would benefit from a FULL evaluation to help figure these things out. The doctors can be great(if you get a good one) at helping you sort out what is "normal" and what goes beyond normal. My son's origional diagnosis was ADHD/ODD, but as many here will tell you that is often the code word for bipolar. I feel that if you think that your son has adhd and oppositional defiant disorder and are wondering if he is depressed too I would highly recommend you look into bipolar as well. Do some asking around for recommendations in your area of who is happy with the evaluations they got at different places. I waited 6 months for an evaluation with what I thought would the best evaluation team in our area. Turns out that they were the least helpful out of everyone we have seen. The doctors all have checklists or questionnaires that really can help sort things out. I wish you the best, good luck!Most kids with childhood disorders also have oppositional defiant disorder. It is a group of behaviors more than a disorder, although it is listed as such. There is normally a bigger problem looming behind the ODD and, if rages, breaking things, violence, blood and gore, sleeplessness and out of control behaviors are part of your child's behavior, it is a good idea to see what is underlying the ODD behaviors (two biggies: Early Onset Bipolar and High Functioning Autism). EOP is the biggest culprit and it mimics ADHD in children--sort of resembles extreme, rageful, angry ADHD, and is triggered by a "no." Also, some kids, early in the diagnosis, can hold it in at school, but not at home. Stims and other ADHD meds can make other disorders worse so it's a good idea to double check the diagnosis with a Child Psychiatrist (the guy with the big MD) or my favorite--a NeuroPsych. I'm going to send you to a reading site and a posting site that may help you further. I wish you luck. Oh, yeah. Look at your family tree. If mood disorders, substance abuse, or suicide attempts are in the family tree, on either side, those are red flags for early onset bipolar disorder, which does not resemble the adult version until the child gets older. I had early onset bipolar and bipolar now and am quite sure my first dx. would have been ADHD/ODD had they diagnosed back then. However, they would have been wrong. Here are the links:
www.bpchildresearch.org (The FAQ section here is very helpful)
www.conductdisordes.com (Experienced parents of kids with ALL disorders, including ADHD)
OlderMom38793.4955671296 thanks for your help, he def has adhd and on meds, put after hearing about ODD it gets you thinking.What exactly bipolar? I've heard about it but know nothing about it. We're due back at doctors in the middle of April so I'll let u know what happens.We're still on waiting list for family therapy ,we have been since last May even though they said they would rush us through. Even after admitting we need help quickly, as we have often reached to the point of wanting to throw him out. He's 15yrs old now and he's getting harder to cope with. We've first took him to the doctors when he was 5yrs old, just to be told he's hypoactive and get on with it. But you know as a mother when something isn't quite right with your child don't you. In between this time i had major family issues to come to terms with, so his problems got put on the back burner, until he became hell to live with and we reached breaking point . It's taken more than 5yrs to get this far with him. He was nowhere as bad at that point, but his delayed diagnoises can't of helped at all , and as he refuses to except there anything is wrong with himself and it can be a battle toget him to take meds. He will never attend proper schooling again as he can't cope with the situation of being told what to do, and he became very very verbal towards certain teachers, just as he is with us.It's a blessing that he isn't violent with his adhd as in some cases. Sorry i've gone on a bit but nobody i know is in the same situation as us so i can't talk to anyone about thisMy daughter has ODD was diagnosed back in september and it did terrify me but with a good behavior plan and taking care of it early on will throw the statistics off. What I am planning to do is get books on ODD to help me however I am holding off for our psychologist is having a book published sometime next month and inside will be the behavior plan he gave us. I am living with ODD as a co-mordity so you can talk to me anytime.
Hi steppingstone
Corey did martial arts from the age of 5 until 12 gaining a black in one sport and red belt in another. When he turn 12 his was certain he didn't want to continue no matter what we said. Since he stopped his behaviour has got increasingly worse as i feel he has nothing to vent his frustrations on. As for giving him jobs to do for money, no chance he would rather do without. No matter how much we explain to him that you have to earn it to recieve it. Nothing we have every tried since works he just couldn't if a damn about anything we or others say to him