sensitisation/ upregulation to combat ADD | ADHD Information
Find a dosage that only produced parasympathethic nervous system effects. So I use meds on a low, therapeutic dosage only to cause the parasympathetic nervous system effects, only to trigger regulation to be possible. And I use concerta, because this dosing system makes it possible to do just that on a more regulated basis. You don't want have the parasympathetic nervous system effects all on one time of the day, because it causes a pretty bad feeling (I believe some people call it "jitteryness" or "a crash"), so it's neccesarily to spread these effects all over the day, making it more regulated.
Please PM me if you have specific questions, it's a more private way of communication.
Steven D38882.6925347222Uh, yeah, I have ADHD, It's too big. How 'bout simple paragraphs - less than chapters. Steven, it's very ADD of you to post way more than anyone wants to read or absorb. I hear your passion, but most people aren't going to absorb what you have to say unless you break it down into simple chapters. I know that's frustrating, but from experience, I can say you've got to do it if you want to be heard.What specifically I do:
I use concerta capsules, because they are more "gradual and regulated" then ritalin. But I solvate the coating with wet wadding containing some water, because the coating contains quick release methylphenidate. Underneath is the membrane, that is non-solvable. The effect of this kind of dosing is slightly different then normal. About the effect:
There is no euphoric reaction in the morning, more like dysphoric (opposition).
There are noticable parasympathetic nervous system effects.
Noticing these parasympathetic nervous system effects I know my head is "unbalanced" and as negative feedback upregulation may occur in brain cells (they do this to maintain homeostasis).
Ofcourse I am careful and I do not use high doses being scared the membrane might damage, but this doesn't happen unless razorshrap nails go into the membrane.
Also, I take a small dose of concerta (without the coating) 1 hour + 10 minutes after the first dose to prevent rebound effect.
Or, I can take 2 equal doses (without the coating) 4 hours apart.
I am not a doctor. Please do not take this information as medical advice.
Steven D38838.4387268519[QUOTE=Steven D]About the upsides: it seems to be way more effective then meds (concerta) alone. It may be useful when it comes to battleing ADD symptomes on long term basis.
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You write above that, "It seems to be way more effective than meds (concerta) alone." What is it that you do in addition to taking the meds? Is there something else that you do or have done?
TheDog38805.660787037 I thought you wanted us to get more protein???? I guess I don't get the upregulation....[QUOTE]so that whole post was a long-winded way of saying --- taking meds will help your ADD?
that's the most freaking ADD thing i've read all day! 
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Not completely. Actually, I didn't wrote that.
[QUOTE]You write above that, "It seems to be way more effective than meds (concerta) alone." What is it that you do in addition to taking the meds? Is there something else that you do or have done? [/QUOTE]
I believe upregulation takes place as a result of the controlled, disturbing homeostasis (the "unbalancing"), which I use concerta for, because I believe the parasympathetic nervous system effects are a kind of feedback meganism, that is the result of the homeostasisdisturbance. Ofcourse downregulation exists too, but I believe that is not what is taking place when I get the parasympathetic nervous system effects.
Yes find a dosage that is very low, but only caused parasympathetic nervous system effects (rest and digest). Such as increased appitite, feeling like a lazy potato, decreased fitness.
But you do understand I can't post med dosages here because I am not a doctor. I don't want to give med advice that is why I only post ideas, theory here. My intent was to discuss my theory. If you have any specific questions about what exactly I do, you should PM me. Do not expect me to have some kind of "wonderpill".
And do remember this all is just theory. It worked well for me, but I don't know if the theory is valid or not. Unfortunately, I too, realised there is no "wonderpill" for ADD. This treatment has good and bad sides, just like all the treatments.
Remember: Treatment for ADD involves weighting. What gives you the best results with as less bad side effects as possible. Ultimately, I weighted and weighted and I realised this was the best treatment for me.
Steven D38807.1118287037
So, what do you do (besides take the prescribed meds) to make your brain recognize that it is unbalanced so that it will produce the additional dopamine on a longer term basis?
but steven HOW do you unbalance your brain????
(without the meds - or is that explained in the film)
i mean do you do a headstand every morning or what???
Almost. Actually upregulation means becomeing more sensitive to dopamine, so there isn't increased release of it, but more sensitivity to it. No I really unbalance my brain, but it isn't strange, that's what meds usually do anyway.
Ofcourse I wasen't sure if it would work, but I'm thrilled of the results so far. So that I am happy with and that's what makes it worth doing.
I'm not sure what the future will bring. Ofcourse I did this because I realised I REALLY want to treat my ADD well, because I don't want to be "mentally foggy" all the time and lose jobs and end up in poverty.
Doesn't means all my trouble is gone. I still have trouble concentrating. But I finally can read books better so I can succeed more at university.
Reading books to study isn't like it was before, I can really register what I read instead of looking at gibberish words and floating away often with my mind.
Steven D38805.5063310185 [QUOTE=Steven D] Of course I wasen't sure if it would work, but I'm thrilled of the results so far. So that I am happy with and that's what makes it worth doing.[/QUOTE]So, Steven, WHAT is 'it' that works? Makes 'it' worth doing...WHAT is IT? If that is answered in the movie, I personally can't watch it on my puter. Please, I'm sure everyone here really would like to know what IT is that you do, aside from meds. ??? Please let us know. Thank you.
With the meds. No it is explained in the text completely above.[QUOTE]So, Steven, WHAT is 'it' that works? Makes 'it' worth doing...WHAT is IT? If that is answered in the movie, I personally can't watch it on my puter. Please, I'm sure everyone here really would like to know what IT is that you do, aside from meds. ??? Please let us know. Thank you. [/QUOTE]
The disturbing homeostasis in a more regulated way, using meds.
so that whole post was a long-winded way of saying --- taking meds will help your ADD?that's the most freaking ADD thing i've read all day!
Reading this thread has given me a headache ;-) I thought the messages would be ADD friendly...
Steve if I may, I will PM asking which medications you are taking, I havemy first Doctors appointment today and not sure what direction I will take.
Actually even writing this right now I'm getting pretty damn depressed about it...no doubt a side effect of my add.
Oh look I used effect, instead of affect....I'm making progress already
It sort of isn't administered. It's where your brain cells detect they are out of homeostasis (balance) and they make more dopamine receptors at the cells membrane to compensate.
Here look at this movie:
But you need meds to unbalance your brain (which the meds always do anyway) or nothing will happen.
I believe when I used concerta and I didn't even know about this all, this process did happen and it did relieve ADD symptomes. For example when I used concerta I found out to be less mentally foggy even without the meds. There seems to be something happening in brain that works even better then the med.
Then I used concerta and later in the evening I found myself excessive worrying and sometimes a littlebit panic. Later I figured out that concerta must have sortof "unbalanced" my brain and causing parasympathetic nervous system effects. But in this period my brain will sensitise as a result (in order to restore this homeostasis).
Results after 2.3 years:
Reading texts isn't so much like reading gibberish anymore. I can make sense of what I read.
I got improvement with lots of things.. social, academic...
I found out meds only barely work that is why nobody has good long term medication effects. Meds are just sad, they work a littlebit, then you build tolerance and then they almost don't do anything anymore. Maybe they can still help a bit, but they don't take away all the problems caused by ADD.
That's why I thought of this. It seems to add to the effects of medication. There is nothing that can do this, as far as I know.
Steven D38882.6909027778 [QUOTE=Steven D]Then, I realised these symptomes were likely to be effects of either parasympathetic nervous system domination, med usage or the "disturbing" homeostasis which triggers sensitisation/ upregulation:
Anxiety (scared of having a heart attack for example)Blood flows to skin, feeling hotter on skin. ("head's cooking")Postular hypotensionBecoming tired, worn out (decrease of fitness)Self-care behaviourMore salivation (resulting in spitting on street alot)Constant feeling of pessimism (thinking with negative feeling, usually about past time happenings)
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Steven D:
I have none of the above symptoms and really don't understand this post at all. It is too long for an AD(H)D group in my opinion.
Briefly....
What is the actual treatment and how is it administered?
What are the results?
Thanks,
- Vic
Marmalade_man38805.3962268519
I am really not quite sure, but I think I found a way to trigger upregulation within brain cells in order to decrease the negative impact of ADD... The upregulation process involves proteins and increases brain receptors in number. However, I have no proof and no real knowledge of what really happens in brain.
In the brain and body there are homeostasis(equilibrium / stable balance)... Just like temperature homeostasis. Your body seems to maintain a fixed body temperature. If your body temperature is too low then your body will adjust. It has many ways to do this. We call this negative feedback. This is where A (low body temperature) -> causes B (heat up body temperature).
I read from scientific resources that sensitisation and desensitisation (and up-regulation and down-regulation) of brain receptors are ways to maintain homeostasis(equilibrium) of receptor signalling. So neurons only sensitise or desensitise to maintain this homeostasis. So "disturbing" this homeostasis might be a good idea, as it can trigger this process.
When I got treatment with ritalin/ concerta then especially with concerta I felt anxiety, excessive tiredness etc. I thought it could be true that the autonomic nervous system was responsible for this. The autonomic nervous system might also be responsible for tachycardia and the losing weight.
The autonomic nervous system has 2 subdivisions. They are the sympathetic nervous system and the parasympathetic nervous system. The sympathetic nervous system and the parasympathetic nervous system oppose each other in many ways. They are like a balance. While sympathetic nervous system increases heart rate the parasympathetic nervous system is more like a break: decreases heart rate.
Then I found a very low dosage that only produced parasympathetic nervous system effects. This dosage is within therapeutic range.
I found out that concerta disturbed some homeostasis and ultimately as a feedback meganism, this also affected autonomic nervous system (parasympathetic nervous system). But if I "disturb" this homeostasis then sensitisation is what can occur, which is what is triggerd as a result.
Essentially I was thinking about this:
Methylphenidate -> "disturbed" homeostasis -> hypothalamus -> autonomic nervous system -> parasympathetic nervous system
Methylphenidate -> "disturbed" homeostasis -> sensitisation / upregulation (to restore homeostasis/ equillibrium in brain)
Then, I realised these symptomes were likely to be effects of either parasympathetic nervous system domination, med usage or the "disturbing" homeostasis which triggers sensitisation/ upregulation:
Anxiety (scared of having a heart attack for example)
Blood flows to skin, feeling hotter on skin.
Very mild postular hypotension
Decrease of fitness
Self-care behaviour
"Rest and digest" behaviour
More salivation (resulting in spitting on street alot)
Constant feeling of pessimism (thinking with negative feeling, usually about past time happenings)
All very subtle symptomes.
Parasympathetic nervous system seems to control the "flee/ stay safe/ stay in your cosy home" behaviour. This is the reason I felt anxiety. Also pessimism might be adding to this self-protective behaviour. (don't go out, it's unsafe)
Sensitisation takes place within seconds or minutes but upregulation takes place within hours or days. But upregulation is more permanent then sensitisation.
I have done this treatment for a long time (for more then 2 years). I found it to be effective. But there are downsides. It's takes a lot of time and it is unproven. About the upsides: it seems to be way more effective then meds (concerta) alone. It may be useful when it comes to battleing ADD symptomes on long term basis.
Feel free to PM me if you want to comment me with any outstanding knowledge you have about neuroanatomy, proof, disproof, questions etc. Thank you.
disclaimer: I am not a doctor. Please do not take my experience, information or anything as a substitute for a doctor advice. Please visit your doctor if you have any problems concerning your health. Some of the presented information is based on experiences and it is unproven. Please don't see it as proven, scientific literature.
Steven D38807.3911574074If you don't mind my asking, what do you do for a living? No reason, just curiousAny chance I can get the simple language, short version of that?
All rightie then....