How to respond to the assessment | ADHD Information
I just spoke with her. Now she is being firm. She wants to use EBD. She will "consider" changing it to OHI later. In the meeting she said that she would change it. Yea right, that's gonna happen. I have the paperwork and I signed that I participated and that I received my rights but I did not check agree or disagree. The IEP says under comments that I want to take it home to review before agreeing/disagreeing to placement, goals, and recommendations. The recommendation is to develop a BIP and provide classroom accommodations via the Resources Specialist at this time. So I guess if this doesn't work, then it becomes more and more restrictive and then out of mainstream altogether. Isn't that the same way it works for OHI? But then if it's EBD, out of mainstream means into an EBD class right?
I can check Agree with the placement/service recommendations.
Or I can check I do not agree with the following parts of this IEP: (and list them).
I cannot check Neither Agree Nor Disagree--it's not there.
NoTellin38806.5296412037NoTellin, are you calling around to get an advocate? I really think you need one.
I am trying to find one .
In my state, an emotionally disturbed student is defined as:
i) Because of a serious emotional disturbance, a pupil exhibits one or more of the following characteristics over a long period of time and to a marked degree, which adversely affect educational performance:(1) An inability to learn which cannot be explained by intellectual, sensory, or health factors.
(2) An inability to build or maintain satisfactory interpersonal relationships with peers and teachers.
(3) Inappropriate types of behavior or feelings under normal circumstances exhibited in several situations.
(4) A general pervasive mood of unhappiness or depression.
(5) A tendency to develop physical symptoms or fears associated with personal or school problems.
I could not find a definition of a long period of time.
NoTellin38806.5721875[QUOTE=NoTellin]I am trying to find one .
In my state, an emotionally disturbed student is defined as:
i) Because of a serious emotional disturbance, a pupil exhibits one or more of the following characteristics over a long period of time and to a marked degree, which adversely affect educational performance:(1) An inability to learn which cannot be explained by intellectual, sensory, or health factors.
(2) An inability to build or maintain satisfactory interpersonal relationships with peers and teachers.
(3) Inappropriate types of behavior or feelings under normal circumstances exhibited in several situations.
(4) A general pervasive mood of unhappiness or depression.
(5) A tendency to develop physical symptoms or fears associated with personal or school problems.
I could not find a definition of a long period of time.
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Now, do you consider your son's behavior "over a long period of time and to a marked degreee"? That is the problem with this criteria. He's experiencing PTSD, which is situational and recently occurring. I do not see how the school can justify this as being EBD.
Please, please call an advocate. You are someone who simply must have one.
lillian38806.5747685185[QUOTE=NoTellin]I just spoke with her. Now she is being firm. She wants to use EBD. She will "consider" changing it to OHI later. In the meeting she said that she would change it. Yea right, that's gonna happen. I have the paperwork and I signed that I participated and that I received my rights but I did not check agree or disagree. The IEP says under comments that I want to take it home to review before agreeing/disagreeing to placement, goals, and recommendations. The recommendation is to develop a BIP and provide classroom accommodations via the Resources Specialist at this time. So I guess if this doesn't work, then it becomes more and more restrictive and then out of mainstream altogether. Isn't that the same way it works for OHI? But then if it's EBD, out of mainstream means into an EBD class right?
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You are correct. That is not going to happen. Once he has the disability, he has it. Do not agree to this IEP. Your son needs a private evaluation. Did she try to schedule the ARD, when you talked to her today?
The meeting went well. The school is open to using OHI as the eligibility criteria! They drew up and IEP at the meeting and listed EBD though. Apparently she picked EBD b/c she thinks the killing/death themes may relate to the major surgery 8 months ago. She suggested counseling with someone who specializes in children post trauma. I took the IEP home to review without signing. I think I need to get back to them next week. No other meeting was scheduled. I have a call in to ask the school doctor if she will just change it to OHI. Otherwise, I will get my private eval and then ask her to change it. In that case I would not sign the IEP until the criteria eligibility changes. I get the impression that if I don't sign it, it will just be on hold (I hope). They are doing a BIP. It seems to be separate from the IEP, and they want it in place immediately. The goal of the IEP is to complete classwork. The only reference to hitting just says he is "often physical with his friends." That's it.Wow! I have to admit I don't understand this, at all. Hmmm. You didn't sign anything? You didn't sign the ARD paperwork and check agree? What does the paperwork say? Does it have a check beside "Neither Agree nor Disagree"?
Thank you thank you thank you for helping a harried stressed mom out! Now I'll brush my hair, straighten my clothes and *look* like I've got it together as I walk into that IEP meeting in an hour.
NoTellin, good luck with the meeting. Please let us know how it goes.
Go Lillian and Smallmom.
I'm looking you up when they review my son's 504 in a few years, so please stay here. I knew ED was bad, thank God we didn't do it. I don't understand why schools are rushing to do ED? Is it because they think parents will go away and leave them alone? What gives?
We are so pulling for you!! Good Luck, No Tellin!!! Wait till you talk with the advocate, before picking from your list of psychiatrists. That list is just to show the school, so they can't push their psychiatrists on you. The advocate may well know a particular psychiatrist that does exactly what the state requires for an OHI.
NoTellin, this is my personal opinion. I recommend a psychiatrist to diagnose mood issues (anxiety, depression, mood disorder). I recommend a neuropsychologist to diagnose neurological conditions like ADHD and PDD, as well as learning disabilities. So in your situation I would still go ahead with the neuropsych evaluation.
I, too, would go ahead with the neuropsychologist evaluation, but for the sake of school law, you may need a physician's dx for ADHD. This is a requirement in some states, so I would get both assessments.
CHADD sent me a list of child psychiatrists already and I've got a call in for an advocate specializing in OHI labels!
Should I just go with the child psychiatrist at this point or should I have the neuro-psyche eval also? I really doubt there are any LDs based on his academic performance. Also, his achievement tests and IQ tests were pretty much in line with each other.
No offense taken! Thanks for the info. As I recall I had agreed to the school eval based on my doctor giving me the green light, and then after signing I realized it was a mistake. Guess I had just missed it on the board unfortunately. Funny thing, the dept that handles dispute resolution tells me that "most" ADHD kids get the EBD criteria, and she acted like I was jumping the gun! So I guess that's what's happening in my county. She said all the schools do this and very few get an OHI label. Amazing. Then I contacted a parent advocate at CHADD and she said I should be very concerned--all of the parents are concerned about this, so I concluded that the "dispute resolution" service is basically in bed with the schools.
So I'm waiting for the name of an advocate from CHADD. I am definately going to get some legal advise before doing anything. And I will get the MD and also a neuro-psyche eval. But if they won't back off the EBD label, I will most likely just say no thanks, I'd like a 504. Then if he develops a LD later, ask for SE services then. I am very very glad that my son is not having academic issues now. That would make things more difficult.
Smallmom--His private eval will take place in April or May. He does not have a dx, just suspected ADHD behavior. He does the typical things in the classroom--figeting, not focusing, not finishing classwork. The assessment says his educational performance is adversely impacted by his inability to control his behavior, namely he cannot complete tasks independently, sit still, concentrate and focus, and gets distracted by his own thoughts. But two months ago he also started hitting. He's hit 4 times this year and has been suspended for a day each time.Under no circumstances whatsoever should a parent allow her child to be classifed EBD, without a private dx from a respected child psychiatrist. Under no circumstances whatsoever. Period. End of story. Uh, uh. No way. Do not allow the school to do this.I'm glad Lillian chimed in (or rather roared in -- LOL!) with her opinion because I was going to suggest you ask her. We, too, have been told -- with two kids with BP -- to avoid the EBD label at all costs.
Ok, what you are telling me was my gut instinct. Can you please give me some advise on how to address this at the IEP meeting which is scheduled for today. What would you say to these people?
And if the report is recommending that the IEP team consider qualifying him under EBD, do I need to formally object to the assessment in writing?
Should I cancel the IEP meeting today, requesting a reschedule and get an advocate or should I go?
Can they find him eligible under EBD without my consent?
The problem with answering your questions is that I do not know the laws in your state. What I would try to do is have the IEP delayed, until the mental health evaluation was completed. I would try to go for Other Health Impaired, with an ADHD dx from a psychiatrist. It's interesting that the school sees ADHD tendencies but is going for EBD
. Gee, could it be a trend? Threatening parents with EBD to keep kids from getting an IEP? Gosh, could it? Ya think? If your child is ADHD, he is OHI NOT EBD. NoTellin, they have tried no interventions at all, correct? EBD should be the last resort, not the first. Schools are required to try the least restrictive setting first.
I would get an advocate -- I think you're going to need one.
They tried the classroom modifications that I suggested and they have not been successful.
Does EBD mean take them out of mainstream and put them into an alternative setting??
I have a form called Parent/Guardian Notification of IEP Meeting and Intention to Participate that requires my response about attending. I am thinking about filling it out and stating that I will not attend pending the neuro-psyche eval and possible child psychiatrist evaluation if the neuro-psyche recommends one.[QUOTE=NoTellin]
Can they find him eligible under EBD without my consent?
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Yes, and you will sign off as disagreeing on the ARD paperwork. Beside your signature, there will be a check box of agree or disagree. You check disagree. Now, once you do that, the fight has begun, and you will need to hire an advocate. It sounds to me like the school is willing to delay their findings until you have a private evaluation. This may be because it is a requirement in your state. I would bet so. What you need to be careful about is that they will give you a list of psychiatrists from which to choose. You do not have to use anyone on their list. Before you go to this meeting, try and find a psychiatrist that is recommended in your area. Call the local CHADD chapter in your city or find the closest one in your state. Call them, tell them what is happening--your child, who has suspected ADHD, is getting ready to get an EBD label from school--and you want the names of some respected psychiatrists to get a professional opinion. Go to the meeting with a list of your own names.
[QUOTE=NoTellin]They tried the classroom modifications that I suggested and they have not been successful.
Does EBD mean take them out of mainstream and put them into an alternative setting??
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Yes, they can place them in an alternative setting. You can disagree with the placement and refuse it, as long as your child is not physically threatening another child or teacher.
[QUOTE=NoTellin]I have a form called Parent/Guardian Notification of IEP Meeting and Intention to Participate that requires my response about attending. I am thinking about filling it out and stating that I will not attend pending the neuro-psyche eval and possible child psychiatrist evaluation if the neuro-psyche recommends one.[/QUOTE]
You want to be present for each and every ARD. You are part of the decision-making committee. If you are not present to disagree, then they can agree to anything.
The problem you're running into is that your son has hit other children. However, he has not officially been dxed, and if he is found to have ADHD and the proper interventions are put into place, the hitting behaviors (perhaps out of frustration) may subside.Holy cow, this is a war. This is crazy. He's a sweet 6 yo boy.
Ok, I guess I am going to the IEP
!!
[QUOTE=SmallMom]The problem you're running into is that your son has hit other children. However, he has not officially been dxed, and if he is found to have ADHD and the proper interventions are put into place, the hitting behaviors (perhaps out of frustration) may subside.[/QUOTE]
Exactly!
[QUOTE=NoTellin]Holy cow, this is a war. This is crazy. He's a sweet 6 yo boy.
Ok, I am about to fill out this "Parent/Guardian Notification of IEP Meeting and Intention to Participate" form saying I will attend but not until after the neuro-psyche eval, and hand deliver the form now. They really want this form from me, so I'm suspecting the IEP cannot go forward without my presence.
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NOOOOOOO! You want to be there. You do not have to be there, and they can decide anything without you.
Ok, I really really really appreciate your help on this. I am going to contact CHADD before the meeting today. O.K. Go into the meeting, be polite, ask a lot of questions, take notes (if you can tape the meeting, do that--take plenty of tapes and a recorder with you), and sign off as neither agreeing nor disagreeing. Tell them you need time to review their findings. If they reschedule the next ARD at that time, try to get it as far from today as possible, but within the state-required time limit. Let them set the date, but if your state requires it be reset within ten school days, try to get it on the 9th or 10th day. You need time to prepare for the next ARD!And I haven't stressed this, but I should have. You definitely want an advocate. You can start trying to find one after the meeting today. Anytime a child is threatened with an EBD label, the parent needs an advocate, who specializes in OHI labels and knows how to get one. CHADD should be able to help you find such a person. Oh good heavens. I'd never allow my kid in an EBD class. For the most part those are kids with problems yet to be diagnosed that cause sometimes dangerous behavior. My friend is an aide in an EBD class and she loves her work, but the kids are a dumping ground (her words). If necessary, retest him privately. Sign nothing until you agree with it. Get an advocate. Fight. Maybe a private NeuroPsych WILL find LD's. My daughter is in an LD class and doing great (and the BD kids aren't with her). Hugs and luck. Question. Do these educational assessments that say "Confidential" at the top get passed on if you enroll your child in a private school the next year?I would really avoid the emotionally disturbed label, especially as it sounds in your son's case. My son was depressed due to his adhd and they wanted to put that label on him and have him see the school psychologist.We were advised by our advocate that that is one label you do NOT want on their record. We got him private counseling and eventually ad/hd meds, and he received a 504 plan under the anxiety/depression. At that point we did not have an ad/hd dx, we just knew he was having trouble finishing work and needed more time, notes, etc. (The good news is that he is no longer depressed!)
We are in TX. It may be different where you are. Anyone else have experience/knowledge on this?
I got my educational assessment, and it is quite interesting. I'm definately finding myself in unknown territory, so any input would be greatly appreciated.
His achievement scores were high average to superior in everything but math which was average. The IQ test scores were also average to superior in everything except visual matching which was low average and they said due to lack of focus. There wasn't enough in the gifted range to be significant. All of this seems on target.
There was mention that he exhibits behaviors consistent with ADHD.
They said there is no discrepancy between ability and achievement so he does not meet the criteria for SE under learning handicapped. However his performance is impacted and he needs classroom modifications.
Ok, this is the interesting part. My son is very visual, and stimulated by visual input. And lately due to various reasons I have allowed his TV time to spike over the last few months (whoops!). He has a pattern of acting out what he sees in dramatic play. Now, this school psychologist says that his imaginative play, drawings and conversations often have themes of aggression, fighting, and death. She says he uses a good guy bad guy theme. She goes on to suggest that the IEP should consider if he might qualify for SE under Emotionally Disturbed. So I am just not buying into any of this and I am not particularly concerned. Some is the visual input (even some from school library books of all things) and some is just boy tendencies. Also, all of this Emotionally Disturbed stuff is based on subjective opinions (which you've heard me complain about before ARRGGHH!).
The recommendation is to develop a highly structured and specific behavioral plan, to consider him for SE eligibility under Emotionally Disturbed, and also to initiate a mental health referral--does anyone know what such a referral might consist of exactly? I think I am interested in the behavioral plan and a 504 only.
Look, I'm going to be really upfront with you here, and I hope I don't offend you, but I think I need to say this. You have had your child evaluated by the school, without having a private dx done first. This puts you in a very vulnerable position because YOU do not have any idea what your son's disability is. You can say that you think it's ADHD, but you do not have any confirmation that this is what it is. A school psychologist has evaluated your son and decided that he is EBD due to PTSD, NEEDS SPED to be academically successful, and wants to do a BIP immediately. And this is the SAME school that has told you all along how they would help you and work with you. Now, are they working with you? Are they listening to what you want? No. You don't need to be making any decisions, until your son is privately evaluated by a respected professional DOCTOR, who has an MD after his/her name. And you need to be absolute and serious about this with the school. What you need to do next depends on the state, the school and the district, which is the reason why you need to find an advocate. You need to find out what you are to do next. But I will say, no matter what state, district or school you are in, don't let this school label your child EBD and start any plan that focuses on correcting behavior, without knowing for sure what is causing that behavior. You do not know.NoTellin, has your son ever had a private evaluation? If so, what is his dx? Is he a terrible behavior problem in school?
No she said she was going to discuss it with the principal b/c I said that I could not agree to EBD as the eligibility. She did not try to schedule anything but mentioned that we will need to meet again to discuss it. What will happen at the meeting?
I don't think the behavior is "over a long period of time and to a marked degree."
I don't think she'll win but I think it's gonna cost me.
Should I just state that I object to the eligibility, or to the entire IEP?
I received a referral from Dylan's pdoc for ES classes through Special Ed. This is a smaller, more structured classroom of 5 children a teacher and an aide as opposed to 23 kids and one 23 year old teacher 
Although, I had the opposite problem with the IQ scores, as Dylan fell just below average at 79 - nowhere near gifted, however, he is considered emotionally unstable (I know they didn't use the word disturbed) and that is what qualified him for the Special Ed classroom.
All pdoc did was type up a letter with Dylan's 4 Axis and a request for an Emotional Support classroom. Took me 2 days to get it. Wasn't too hard.
I don't know if that answers your question. I'm sorry if not.
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I don't think she'll win but I think it's gonna cost me.
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OlderMom was able to get an advocate for free in her state. I don't know if you can do this in every state or not. I paid for my advocate, and she was 0 an hour, but I needed a very good one. I also paid for an attorney to review my son's records and give advice, which was 0. All in all, I spent about 00 fighting my son's school district. If I had ended up in due process, which was the direction we were heading (when we entered the last ARD, we went in with the intention of asking for mediation, but the school did a complete 360 and wrote an IEP), the estimated cost was ,000-,000 and only 15% of parents win in due process in the state of Texas. 
Sooooo, if you can get an advocate for free, I would definitely try to do that. Call your state education agency and see whether or not advocates are available at no charge to parents. Also, call the district's SPED department and see if there is a parent liason group in the district. These groups are parents/teachers, who work as intermediaries between you and the school, trying to come up with a reasonable solution everyone can be pleased with. In the end, though, you do not have to hire an advocate. You can simply say that you do not agree with the school's findings and are refusing SPED placement. If your son starts failing, however, you will not have any recourse.
Hi, again I am new.
Could someone please tell me what all the EBD, IEP etc...mean.
Thanks
[QUOTE=NoTellin]I asked how many of her 5th & 6th grade ADHD kids do not have LD---she said none. I said that the odds are then likely that my son will develop a LD. And if he has an EBD label, and fails, he will likely wind up being and ADHD kid with LD in a classroom full of EBD kids. The answer was yes. [/QUOTE]
Well, now, that says it all. They don't give OHI's. You are in a district where you have to fight like heck for an OHI. They classify their ADHD kids as EBD .
We have an Alternate Dispute Resolution process here. I am looking into that.
I called the school psyche and asked lots of questions. The route is classroom accommodations, then partial pullout of mainstream into the learning resources room, then alternate placement with the county or school district. For EBD, it's a county placement into an EBD room. For OHI it's a school district placement into a room of LD or cognitively slow children. Two different paths. I asked how many of her 5th & 6th grade ADHD kids do not have LD---she said none. I said that the odds are then likely that my son will develop a LD. And if he has an EBD label, and fails, he will likely wind up being and ADHD kid with LD in a classroom full of EBD kids. The answer was yes. Since my son's cardiologist does not favor meds, his odds could be 50% in my opinion. The goal of the IEP is completing classwork.
How do I decline SE services? And if I do, can I then request an SE evaluation in a year after all of this supposed "emotional disturbance" is long gone? He is on target academically, and hit high-average to superior on the academic achievement tests. If I can work on the hitting and he does not do that anymore, what can they do? Also, what if I just don't return the IEP and never sign anything?
IMac38945.6915277778That you IMac. My stress level is incredibly high. I actually did not sleep at all last night.
The school psychologist said that I could have a Behavioral Intervention Plan, and no SE. This time I told her flat out that the cardio does not favor meds and his chances of failure are higher than normal. I am really thinking about taking this route. But I think I'd get the neuro-psyche eval anyway to see what she suggests. This would increase the effectiveness of the BIP.
I'd appreciate some opinions on having a BIP and declining the SE.
IMac38945.6917824074What are the scenarios if I have a BIP and turn down SE? I know my son will have less protections. But how could this play out.