Rentention yes or no????? | ADHD Information

Ex-Special Ed teacher here --- I am also ADHD along with my son, so understand from all angles.

First, The school cannot hold a child back if they have an IEP.  I suggest that you find a advocacy group for special education.  School systems will walk all over parents if the parents do not know what the districts can and can't do.  They do everything they can to save money.  I am not bashing public schools, I just know that they want to services sped kids as easily and cheaply as possible.  An IEP should have specific learning goals that address the specific items that she is behind on.

Now from a teacher perspective,  if she is young for her age, small and having problems with social skills, it might be a good idea for her to stay back a year.  It would allow her to catch up in many different ways.

Also, make sure that her learning problems are that, learning problems and not a neurological problem, although she will still qualify for an IEP.

GOOD LUCK

That is interesting I didn't know that they could not hold her back because she has and IEP.  They did tell me however that the decision was ours to make.  I brought up the IEP at the meeting and was told that she would still recieve her services.  But I need to keep in mind that her next review meeting will be next February (1 year from our last meeting) and I have been thinking what will they try to do then....Will they reduce the amout of help that she is currently recieving because she is doing better????

How do I find an advocate? I am in Mass. What are their fees??

Also I am looking for a summer program for her in our area.  If any one has any suggestions would love to hear them.  I am thinking of putting her in a summer program and moving her onto the 3rd grade.  I just know that she will be devasted if we hold her back.  She really believes that she is doing well and wants so badly to be successful..

i think her emotional reaction depends a lot on how you talk your daughter through it too - i would really talk through it a lot with your daughter (if you think she will take on board everything) in a very adult way with all the positives about how it will cement her learning and maths and could really help her academically grasp all that she needs to know.  so that she sees beyond just the immediate reaction of "no, i don't want to" fear and with that - really try to judge how she feels about it.

and although i think it could be quite damaging 'staying down a year' (that's what we called it at my school) then again if this teacher is great and gets on with her well it could really boost her confidence to be top of the class rather than the bottom - to be getting good marks and understanding the answers.  (i couldn't work out whether 7 is old or young for second grade - we have a different system here in the UK - but if it is young then even better she will more be with her age group too).

nonetheless i myself am sorta with lillian because i would have loathed to have stayed down a year as a child.  i didn't even like being bumped up a year because it meant i had to make new friends, make all that effort of being the new girl, and all my old friends were in the year below...  after a couple of terms it was ok. 

but still i felt a bit torn - especially in break times when (i had such a little adult head on me) i felt it was important NOT to socialise too much with my old friends even though i wanted too.  i remember having a HUGE row ending with my friend in tears (aged 7!  so ridiculous looking back) and saying in that snotty-nosed way.  "i can't be your friend anymore because i am Emma S's friend now - that is just the way it is".... 

and walking away all grown up, with my nose in the air and 'don't bother me' attitude.  but honestly feeling completely terrible inside!   it was difficult to know how to handle it and in those days it was "you just get on with it".  nobody was dishing out advice...  unfortunately.

i also think --- the teacher will never be as enthused, as good with her as she was the first time.  it is just the way life is. 

either way - if she goes into 3rd grade and really can't cope that is so disheartening but if she stays down a year - and thinks all that hard work was for nothing - equally so. 

and in the end you are the one who knows her best.  who probably knows what is likely to be more or less damaging for her.  whether she is such a hard-worker she will rise to the challenge of 3rd grade and swim and be the stronger and better for it or sink.  equally whether staying down would allow her the chance to be top of the class, successful and that will give her just the right kind of motivation and base level of knowledge she needs to excel in 3rd grade next year or whether it would upset her so much that it would be counter-productive.  it all depends on her psychology more than anything.

i am sure you have a gut feeling as to which would be best.

good luck.


We are seeing another Nuerologist.  Dr Raffalli.

Why was she given an IEP?  What is her SPED classification?  Is it OHI for the ADHD and epilepsy? 

I've gotta run, so I'll just give this advice.  First, I think your daughter should see a neuropsychologist, who can test for both ADHD and learning disabilities.  If your daughter is behind in both writing and math, I would suspect dysgraphia.  If she is behind in reading, math, and writing, I would suspect dyslexia.  Second, because she is working so hard for the tutor, I would not recommend retention.  She obviously wants to catch up but is unable to do so because of her learning difficulties.  I think to retain her when she is trying this hard would be damaging to her ego and self esteem.  Third, I would keep the tutor for the rest of next year, if you can.  Because she is being tutored in math, I would have the tutor do her math homework with her, which will relieve some of the homework hassle.  HTH lillian38833.3163078704I was told by the first nuerologist that her epilepsy may be benign and that she may outgrow it in her teens.  He concurs with the diagnosis of adhd and said that we would probably see a noticable difference in her with meds for adhd, however he wanted to wait because the medicine is a stimulant and it may increase the probability of seizures.

What kind of grades is your daughter making?  Is she working hard for the tutor?  When she was given an IEP, what was her SPED classification?  Did her tests from the neuropsychologist and the school show that she had learning disabilities?

O.K.  She was diagnosed by a neurologist, not a neuropsychologist?  What kind of doctor are you seeing at Children's Hospital on Friday?

Her SPED Classification is moderate and there are no learning dissabilities.  She is below grade level in math and writing.  The grading scale here is 1,2,3 three being the lowest 2, is at grade level.  Gabrielle gets 2's except for math and writing.

Gabrielle is working very hard with the tutor.  We know that she wants to be successful.

My daughter's birthday is in July (hence 7 years old).  We have a private tutor at home that  we hired a month ago, she specializes in everyday math which is the program that her school uses.

I am not quite sure if the epilepsy is her only problem, I have been doing lots of research and am finding that she appears to have alot of the symptoms of adhd.  However I would like the doc to monitor her with a more lenghtly eeg to see if she is having absence seizures during the day. I have read that there is a 48-72 hour eeg that can be done.

Also, how serious is her epilepsy?  Does she have seizures at school, where other kids notice?  Does she have incontinence with the seizures?

Thank you Joemom for that link.  I read thru it and it says no to retention.  That is all that I have been finding I have yet to find some benefits a child may recieve if they do stay back..

My daughter is a young second grader, but the bottom line is that she has been whith this group of kids for three years now and has begun to make friends. Her ego and self esteem are what I am worried about and from everything that I have read children with adhd tend to have a lower self esteem to begin with, which we have noticed in her... I have  also noticed that she acts differently than her peers.  I notice her not exactly handling different social situations as I would think that she should.  I think that up until recently I figured that she was younger than the others but now I'm not so sure..

Lillian  How do I find a nuerophychologist?? Are they covered by insurance.  I have been thinking lately that I should have my own evaluation done outside of the school.  The doc that she is seeing on friday has done a mini evaluation (paperwork for her teacher to complete as well as some for us to do). We sent all this to him months ago.  He will also review her eeg and give his opinion.

Do nuerophychologist do a full scale evaluation?? The one done by her school took 2 months..

When you see the doctor on Friday, ask for a recommendation to a neuropsychologist.  There should be one at Children's Hospital.  And, yes, the doctors do a very thorough evaluation, which usually takes a couple of days. 

look at the article and then decide

http://www.schwablearning.org/articles.asp?r=315&f=searc h

Hello,

I'm from the Boston area and I have a 7 year old daughter who in February was diagnosed with adhd inatentive type and rolandic epilepsy.  She has been struggling in school since kindergarten and is now in the second grade.  She was evaluated and had eeg and mri so here I am..She began her IEP the first week of March for writing,math and reading comp.

Yesterday we (my husband and I) had a meeting with her schools Principal and her second grade teacher they are recommending retention.  The teacher feels as though she doesn't have a solid background of the basics to move onto third grade, as grade three is very tough.  She went on to say that since we now are beginning to "peal back the onion" and are getting to the heart of what Gabrielle is going through that maybe a second round at grade 2 would help her tremendously.  We have great respect for her teacher she has 15 years of special ed background and she is the first teacher to recognize that Gabrielle stares off at times and that she silently distracts herself. 

Ok here is my dilema, what do we do??? My daughter is trying very hard and she has made progress with this teacher (last year was a complete dissater!!).  I know if we ask her what she would like to do she will say move onto 3rd grade.  I am concerned about her emotionally what is retention going to do for her self esteem??

I have a second opinion scheduled for this friday (finally), with a doctor at childrens hospital I am hoping that he will help.  In the meantime the retention decision is ours.  Any thoughts as to what the impact of retention would mean for my daughter??

She is currently on no meds.  The first nuero said to wait and see how she did with the IEP and to try to watch her for any seizure activity.  We are getting very frustrated homework is a nightmare and her frustration is growing along with ours..

Any feedback would be greatly appreciated!!

Does your daughter have a summer birthday?  I'm curious why she is seven and in second grade. 

EPILEPSY IS MOST LIKELY WHY SHE HAS CONCENTRATION ISSUE. i SUGGEST TRY VITAMINS ALSO. i HAD PETIMAL AS A KID AND FREE 20 YRS SEIZURE FREE NOW. i WOULD GET MATH MADE EASY FOR THE SUMMER FOR MATH.

WOULD LOVE TO TALK WITH YOU BY PHONE. rn

We held my son back in 1st grade.    He was born Aug 3rd and maturity wise wasn't ready for the move.    I wanted to hold him back in Kindergarten but the school & my hubby wanted him to move on.    i think the sooner you do it the better.   I'm very happy we held him back.   By the time he reached 2nd grade he was diagnosed with dyslexia, needed glasses & 3rd grade was ADHD.

He's in 6th grade now - reads at a 9th grade level - does not take ritalin (we stop midway thru 5th grade & gradually took him off it).   He's a high b, low A student.

Kids grow up too fast these days - an extra year for them to mature was excellent in our case.

You can list all the scores of her tests, if you want to or PM me them.  Nothing is standing out to me really strongly, except possibly a reasoning issue, which may be indicative of executive function problems, which may be indicative of ADHD.  Did she receive her SPED label under OHI?  I am very curious why the school thinks she is behind in writing because she doesn't appear to be having a writing problem.  Her TOWL score is fine, as is her visual/spatial.   

If the problem is executive function and/or reasoning, I definitely would want a neuropsychologist to evaluate her, and I don't know of another specialist who could do just as good of a job or better than a neuropsychologist will with this issue.

lillian38835.6185185185From looking at this I can not tell I think that she had WIAT-II and on written language she scored a 109, math 89 and reading a 98.  They note that she seems to have more trouble with non verbal problem solving  and tends to respond impulsively.

She was also given a test of written language and in contrived writing she recieved an 89  and spontaneous writing a 113, and an overall of 98

Hmm.  When they say non-verbal problem solving, are they talking about pen and paper tasks or non-verbal reasoning?  Look back at the Weschler and tell me what her matrix reasoning subtest score was.  This is the non-verbal reasoning score on the Weschler.  What achievement test was she given?  Also, was she given a visual/motor integration test or a separate writing test?lillian38835.4196296296I am IMPRESSED with this diagnostician.  The Test of Written Language (TOWL) is the best writing test on the market.  She gave the Gray and the TOWL!!!      Those are not bad scores on the TOWL.  It does not sound like dysgraphia.  Under perpetual reasoning her matrix reasoning score is 06 with a pr of 09.What was her score on block design?  (same section as matrix reasoning)

Block design was 9 and pr 37.

Wow, this is a tough one.  Tell me whether or not you think this sounds like your daughter:

http://ericec.org/digests/e619.html

Somewhat it does but not to that extreme.   She does still have friends, and I don't think that she is rigid with her words or expression.  she does talk alot , and tends to make up stories.  I find myself often questioning her  "is that true?".

What do you think based on the numbers that I gave you?? Oh my god this is sooo overwhelming to me I wish that I was better educated with all this. 

Neuropsychologists can be found at both university and children's hospitals.  As Lillian mentioned, they do the most thorough evaluations around.  You will understand your daughter's strengths and weaknesses after the evaluation is done.  We did neuropsych testing on my daughter last summer, and part of the fees were covered by insurance.  Unfortunately, every insurance plan is different.

Well we are back the appointment is over.  He did say that he wants to do a 24 hr eeg they are going to call me to schedule the appointment.  He also gave me another questionaire for her teacher to complete and wants to see her agian in August.. Also he gave me the number to call to set up another evaluation through childrens I just called and there is an 8month wait for her first appointment.  I called my pedi am waiting for her return call to see if she can help me find someone who will do it sooner.

As far as the question with retention the doctor was no help.  He said that it was a family decision.  What am I going to do, I am so frustrated.  We return to her original nuero on may 4th for her follow up with him.  I think that I will stay with him I didn't feel as comfortable with todays doc as I did with him.  He concurs with the other docs opinion and says that she may not be seizuring and to keep an eye on her at night because that is when she is most likely to have a seizure..

Thanks for all your help and support.

The wait for a neuropsychologist can be a very long wait.  If you really need something to take to the school, I would suggest going ahead and making the appointment with the neuropsychologist but seeing an expert, who can check for LD's, before then.  Choosing what kind of expert you need is tricky, though, if you don't have any idea what your daughter's LD may be.  Because she is having difficulties with reading, writing, and math, seeing a dyslexia specialist may not be a bad choice; however, she's doing better in reading, than math or writing, which makes me lean more towards dysgraphia.  Can you explain the issues you see in her learning difficulties? lillian38835.3772800926

Hi Lillian,

I have her assessment in front of me I  don't quite know what info you need from all these pages so I will try to give you what I can.  Gray silent reading test she scored 91 and in the 27th percentile they say that when she reads to herself that she has a harder time understanding than when she reads orally.  On the math portion she scored in the average range according to the test total math concepts 98 and in the 45th percentile.  It goes on to read that she scored average to low average skills across all areas assessed.

Does this help at all?

Her teacher constantly mentions that she needs to info to be constantly revisited for her to get it.  In other words if the concept is explained to her she will do it but the next day she gets a paper or in the evening doing homework she can't do the work, her tutor told me yesterday that she noticed the same problem.  She taught her a lesson and she did the work than at the end of her session the tutor revisited the lesson and Gabrielle seemed lost..

Wow!  A school gave the Gray?  That's the best test on the market for testing reading fluency.  Was she given the Woodcock Johnson Cognitive Battery?  If she was, look at her working memory score.  It sounds like she has difficulties with short-term memory. 

Hi Lillian,

No I do not see that mentioned on the report.  So schools do not usually use the gray why not?  She was given the  Weschler her working memory index she rated 88.