my son says he hates me. | ADHD Information
I agree with Lillian. It sounds like he is trying to affirm in his own mind how he will avoid temptation. That is so cute! What a sweetie he is!
I want to point out that one way to get away from bad behavior and into the behavior you want to see is to catch him doing the wrong thing and instead of yelling, say something like, "we don't do that" and lead him to an appropriate distraction.
If you can get him interested in something else, he will forget about doing what he wasn't supposed to. Its non confrontational and a more peaceful, gentle way to teach him about what is wrong and what is right. Make the fun thing more interesting than the wrong thing was.
Also, make sure you notice when he chooses the right thing and praise him royally for it. Let him know that you noticed, and that you are soooooo proud of him for doing the big boy thing.
[QUOTE=scotmama]i have another question.when i say to him not to do something,he answers"i will say no,i willl not do it"does he hear voices!!or is it just a figure of speech.[/QUOTE]
It's just his telling himself the same thing you are telling him. It's no big deal.
Dear Scotmama,
I have a four year old son who just loves to pee outside, he is so busy having fun that he doesn't want to take the time to go inside. As long as he tries to be discrete, I really don't have a problem with it--it is better than peeing in his pants. Four is a difficult age because they still want to be the "baby" yet are striving for some independence. I also have an 11yr. old ds and raising him has harden me alot when it comes to my little one throwing fits. My 4yr.old can be having a ragging fit in the store and I just keep shopping--eventually he realizes that I am not going to give in to him and he gives up. Or I will let him know in advance if he can have a little treat for good behavior. I know that it can be so daunting at times, constantly having to deal with negative behavior, but if you can ignore some lesser crimes, like peeing in the garden, you will make life alittle easier--for you and your son.
OLDER MUM thank you for your advice,i bought the explosive child but planB is alittle hard with jude as he does not seems to understand when you try to discuss things with him.we have spoken before about bipolar in another thread you were right.but it does not seem to be a dx here in britain i will pick jude's psy brains when we see him in june.
BARB,LILLIAN AND MIKMUM.I also agree with you about chosing the battles that was i was doing but i was told by the doctors i as wrong that i have to be firm on everything as he will think that if i let things go for little things he will think he can go away with everything.i was actually told off when i told them i do my shopping when he is at nursery as he is a nigtmare in the shops.they said i have to take him to teach him he can't have his way.i don't care if he pee in the garden!it kills the weeds.unfortunately scotdaddy agree with the professional.it is easy for him away in the middle of the north sea,he doesn't have to listen to jude saying he hates me.it breaks my heart when he says it.
i have another question.when i say to him not to do something,he answers"i will say no,i willl not do it"does he hear voices!!or is it just a figure of speech.he is not onmeds they don't medicate that young here.
I didn't know you were in Britain. That's unfortunate. If he has it, ADHD meds/treatment won't help him. I hope you get it straightend out soon. I think that, at least in mental health, the US is ahead of Europe, but that doesn't help you. I"m sorry. Wishing you the best. scotmama, i have tried everything the experts have told me and every trick in the book, if you want to be (what they call soft, then you be soft), i would rather be soft than have a day of hell, if you dont want to upset your son then dont & if you dont mind him rulling the house to have a peacefull life then you do it, what i am trying to say is, you need to do what you think is right & to live a happier life for you & jude, after all its you that has to deal with it & stuggle through,not them. Its easy enough for them to say you must'not let him have the pacifier but can they deal with his paddy-NO, you find whats best for you & your family & stick by it. The health proffesionals can go suck there own pacifiers!!!we are trying that behavior change therapy and it is hell.scotdaddy is away so it is me against jude.they said i was too soft on him,that i was letting him rule the house,so i decided to be harder on him,telling him no more often.he peed in my garden again so i took him in and told him he could not go back outside the morning.meltdown 1,screaming on top of his lungs,saying he hates me,so i put him in his bedroom,he calmed down eventually but he came down with a pacifier,that is a big no no.so i took him off him.meltdown 2.he hates me again.
afternoon was a repeat of the morning,i let him play outside,he peed in the garden and it started all over again.
i am finding it difficult.i think i prefered being soft on him that him screaming all day that he hates me and slamming doors.i went to bed with a migraine and he is miserable all day.he even woke up crying in the middle of the night.he is not even 4 yet.
You can continue it, but, if it's early onset bipolar, discipline won't work. Best to read "The Explosive Child" or go to the Conduct Disorders site for those parents who deal with these problems. On the right meds and with the right treatment the behavior will abate once the disorder is treated. He knows his behavior is bad. He just can't control it. In the meantime, there are ways to bring your household more peace and quiet while you look for the answer and conventional discipline can sometimes escalate raging/violence, which doesn't teach the child anything, especially if he can't control himself. Even consistency won't work. Chances are if it DOES work, it's not bipolar. If it doesn't, you have more on your hands than ADHD/ODD. And, if so, he could end up wrongly imprisoned for mental illness, whether or not you do your best (and I believe you are trying). The other site includes parents of older kids who have kids who were once like yours. They have excellent advice. You may do better there. Up to you. Good luck.
OlderMom38837.3377893519my son was defiant when he was young and if i talked softly to him and explained why we don t do this he would calm down . and oh yes he would throw tantrums at me and say he hates me but i would just blow it off. he didn't hate me he was just frustrated . and if his father would spend some one on one with him that would usually fix it. my son is adhd and 17 yrs old and we still go thru this to this day but he is mainly crying out for attention from me or his father. dont give up on him it will get better .
In today's society, we are expecting behavior from our kids which is actually beyond their control at their ages and developmental levels. I have a big problem with children being expected to act like little adults. I seriously question whether a quiet, compliant 2 or 3 or even 4 year old is being abused and is afraid to be a child. Some kids are more naturally disposed to being quiet and well behaved. Some kids need tome to grow up. Thats why they call it the terrible 2s, even when the kid is 3 or 4.
It isn't uncommon for a child that young to pee outside. To them, peeing is just a natural function and they don't understand proper social behavior yet. He is still learning. At the most I would have had him come inside for 5 minutes and explained that people just don't do that. It isn't allowed.
You need to learn to pick your battles. If you fight with him over every issue, you are both going to be very angry and resentful, not to mention worn out. Decide which behaviors are the most important to you and focus on those. Let other things slide until you have control over the most important issues, then work your way down the list.
There are just so many things that we stress over and they really aren't anything that will hurt our kids if we don't get perfection immediately.
I would focus on the non negotiables at his age. You don't go out of the yard. You don't go into the road. You don't touch things like light sockets and electrical outlets, hot stoves. You don't bite, hit, kick. Taking something that belongs to another child is wrong. Things like that.
Sometimes you can bring on behavior problems by expecting too much, too soon. The poor kid can't comply and simply rebels out of frustration. They are caught between being a baby and being a big boy and it isn't easy making the transition.
At least worth checking into what oldermom said, but I would continue with the discipline, bipolar or not, it's not an excuse. The rest of the world is going to expect him to follow rules. Children will keep upping the anti with their angry to see if you will give in and just how far they have to go to get you to change your mind. You should not give in, even though it is easier for you. You would be cheating your son out of a good life by letting him think he runs the world at 4. What will happen when he starts school? Get help if you need it, but don't give up teaching him right from wrong. Children like that end up in prison. get support, read books, whatever you have to do, but don't just blame it on some other disorder, and give up because that's what easier. Being a parent ISN'T EVER easy. It may take days or weeks to see a sign he's breaking down, but it will happen. He's gone 4 years with not having much discipline, so don't expect a change in a day or two. You can do it. Pop an ADVIL and keep on marching. poodledoodles38837.3201157407Im sure I posted before, but I'll try one more time. I think you have more going on than ADHD. Behavioral management isn't working. I'd get another opiniong on what's wrong with him. This is common behavior in early onset bipolar and, no matter how good a parent you are (and I believe you're a good one--you're trying hard), you can't stop the behavior if he has a mood disorder because HE can't help it. He doesn't hate you. He's upset in his little world and confused and is lashing out at the person he feels the safest with. He's very young and may not get a mood disorder dx. yet, but I"ll bet he will in the future and ADHD meds or no meds will only make him worse, no matter what you try, if that's the case. I'm sending you a few sites to read and another site to post on. That site is full of older parents who have been where you are at and done it and have heard "I hate you" and have good advice. The first thing I'd do is buy "The Explosive Child" by Ross Greene. The second is schedule an appt. with a Child Psychiatrist and forget the behavioral therapy for now. You'll just stay frustrated and get minimal results and blame yourself when it's not YOU being too soft. Then, if he's on stimulants or Straterra, I'd consider finding a psychiatrist (with the MD) who will remove it as they aren't helping him. If he's not on anything at all, that's almost better because the psychiatrist can see him as he is. ANother good book, that may helpl you, is "The Bipolar Child" by Dimitri and Janice Papalos. If you have mood disorders, substance abuse, or any suicide attempts on either side of the family those are big red flags for early onset bipolar, which does not resemble adult bipolar and has a huge ODD component--much more so than ADHD. I'll post the sites and wish you luck in whatever you decide to do. My son was misdiagnosed twice--it happens often, especially in very young kids. In his case, he ended up having high functioning autism, which is another possibility for your child, but it sounds to me more like bipolar I can't diagnose. Nobody here can. But therapists without MD's aren't supposed to diagnose either. They don't have the training in all the disorders and they aren't doctors. Here are a few sites you can look at, and I hope you find your answer before we did.
www.childbrain.com (check out PDD/autism--look for Aseprgers)
Good luck!
Oops. A few more things. Often kids with EOBP act out worse on one person than the other (usually Mom) because they feel safest with her and their raging insides HAVE to act out on somebody if they hold it in elsewhere. They are also able to sometimes behave in school (not always) and then let it out worse at home. ADHD is fluid--the child is hyper all the time. Also, these kids can't hear "no." That can cause a huge rage. The kids don't have the ability to "shut off" the way other kids do when told they can't do something. They desperately need the right meds--mood stabilizer/anti-psychotic. If you continue behavioral therapy and want to bang your own head against the wall because it isn't working, trust me, it isn't gonig to end up being ADHD/ODD. It's more. Don't be afraid as there is good treatment, but you need the right dx. Again, good luck.Peeing outside is a perfectly normal behavior for a three-year-old boy. There's nothing odd about that, at all. Boys will pee outside into the elementary school years. Heck, what am I saying, some grown men do it 
.
The pacifier he may have been sucking on to soothe himself because he was upset. I also think that's a normal, and kind of sweet, reaction. I used to suck my thumb to soothe myself, and I can remember "sneaking" my thumb sucking when I was in kindergarten and 1st grade.
I totally agree with Barb about picking your battles. These two things, peeing in the garden and sucking on a pacifier, are not the two battles to choose with a three-year-old boy, IMHO.
lillian38837.3906712963
BTW, I saw this on Super Nanny, and I thought it was the cutest idea. I don't always agree with her, but this was great:
There was a child, around three-years-old also, who would not give up her pacifier, so they had a "Bye-Bye Binky Party." The nanny, mother, and little girl talked about the little girl being a big girl, and it was time to give up her binkies (pacifiers). This conversation was really positive, as they talked about what a big, big girl she had become. They then went around the house and collected all the pacifiers, and they put them in a bag and hung the bag in a tree for the binky fearie to get and take to other little children who needed binkies. The next morning, they went outside to see if the binkie faerie had come, and she had. She took all the binkies and replaced them with a cuddly teddy bear (also a soothing toy but more age appropriate) and a sweet note, thanking the little girl for the binkies, telling her how the other children were going to be so happy to get them, and congratulating her on becoming a big girl.
Too cute!
lillian38837.4032986111he is always made a fuss of when he does good things,we have a respite womam called pat who takes him on a thursday.she said"when he has a bee in his bonnet,he won't let go."that is why it is so difficult with jude hhe doesn't respond to conventionaal methods,you can try to distract him as much as you want,explain until you are blue in the face,he still does what he wants,it is very hard for him to shift gears.in the shops i also promise treats if he behaves,he still doesn't,it's like he can't help it.he won't give his hand and throw himself on the floor,try to run away and if we put him in a trolley try to kick you.he also shouts at the top of his lungs.we tell him before we enter the shop that he will get a sweetie or we'll go to brewster bear if he is a good boy.we also got him to help,he will go with his dad and put things in trolley,it works to start with but he gets fed up with it quickly.so when alan is away,i go to do my shopping when he is at nursery.problem solved.but i was told i was wrong to do that,hewe try to pick him up from the floor he tries to bite,head butt you and makes himself a dead weight.i can't carry him much because of my health problem so i find it easier that way.[QUOTE=lillian]Yep. Gosh, I almost hate to tell you this, but when my son came to live with us, he was a month from nine years old, and he was a nightmare in stores. He would run up and down the aisles and beg for everything he saw. Whew! I can remember leaving my grocery cart in the middle of the aisle and taking my son out of the grocery store 
. Now, he's twelve, and I can take him to any store, and he's fine. In fact, he loves shopping, but when he was young, uh uh. Too much stimuli in one place. I really think that's what it is with ADHD kids, and people who don't have ADHD kids just don't get it. So take these supposed experts 
with a grain of salt. Any place that has a lot of stimuli or requires waiting in line is pure he!! for the ADHD kid. JMHO.[/QUOTE]
I had the over stimulated problem with my son as well. I would leave him home part of the time, but take him when it wasn't too crucial, to teach him how to behave, knowing that I may just have to leave my cart in the Ilse and walk out and go home. Eventually he learned this would always happen if he acted out, and the tantrums stopped most of the time. We also never bought anything extra for him while shopping. My son is an expert debater. I always said from the time he could talk that he would eventually end up a Lawyer. He gets upset if we're having a debate and I eventually just walk away, otherwise I'd be standing in the same spot as a gray old lady years later.
scottmama, Hope you eventually find something that works for you.
poodledoodles38838.5863541667Yep. Gosh, I almost hate to tell you this, but when my son came to live with us, he was a month from nine years old, and he was a nightmare in stores. He would run up and down the aisles and beg for everything he saw. Whew! I can remember leaving my grocery cart in the middle of the aisle and taking my son out of the grocery store. Now, he's twelve, and I can take him to any store, and he's fine. In fact, he loves shopping, but when he was young, uh uh. Too much stimuli in one place. I really think that's what it is with ADHD kids, and people who don't have ADHD kids just don't get it. So take these supposed experts with a grain of salt. Any place that has a lot of stimuli or requires waiting in line is pure he!! for the ADHD kid. JMHO.Kids I think say that cause they are just mad at what have been told. No one really wants to be told what to do or NO. The more we pay attention to all bad behavior the more it would happen here. We ignore some stuff. For some any attention good or bad that kid will love. He is much better since on vitamins and depakote. Behaviorally anyhow. Our son. RN
To much stimulation as well. Our son went into tantrums soon as in a store.started in toddler hood. In church couldn't handle singing service screamed it hurts. After ait he was able to handle loudness much better now. I was glad we did cause school would of been a another issue without it I believe. He even covered his ears before then.
oldtimer38838.2951157407When my boys were that young I only took them with me to the store if I had NO OTHER CHOICE!! That is the only way to have peace in the store with an ADD child - leave them with hubby or a friend.They are teens now and even though they would behave, I still leave them at home - It is cheaper!
Will agree since they manage to want to get everytime you are in a store. I am just as bad sometimes though. RNi could not leave my cart in the middle of the aisle,i would have to go back and put everything back exactly where i got it.i also have issues. [QUOTE=poodledoodles]
I had the over stimulated problem with my son as well. I would leave him home part of the time, but take him when it wasn't too crucial, to teach him how to behave, knowing that I may just have to leave my cart in the Ilse and walk out and go home.
[/QUOTE]I've seen this done on parenting shows. The advice was to "practice" shopping, just as you did, poodledoodles. Good idea.
Scotmama,
Explain Jude's behavior in stores.
jfla I taught my son to read the price stickers and the amount per ounces labeled on the shelf to help figure out what was cheaper. I also taught him about coupons and waiting till something was on sale. It would be funny when we would go into a store and he would point out what was cheaper per ounce. Sometimes he would find it before me.
It was kinda of like a game. He was still about 8 years old. He usually will wait for a sale on his video games. Though once in a while he couldn't wait.
[QUOTE=poodledoodles]jfla I taught my son to read the price stickers and the amount per ounces labeled on the shelf to help figure out what was cheaper. I also taught him about coupons and waiting till something was on sale. It would be funny when we would go into a store and he would point out what was cheaper per ounce. [/QUOTE]Wow that's great at eight years old!
I like when I have the opportunity to give each member of the family part of the shopping list to get and then meet at the check out.
So, one day the same preschooler that once gave us headaches shopping, will be making our purchases while we sit home and relax!
This reminds me, since ds has his drivers license I should send him to the store!
I am glad pratice shopping has been mentioned. I would start out going to stores with low stimulus, uninteresting. Go in not necessarily with the intention of buying but just to learn about the routine and expected behavior. Keep the length of the visit short. Reward with some special activity to do together when the mini trip is over. Slowly build up the degree of stimulation and change the types of stores. Slowly add more time. The good thing about not actually buying anything is that it frees you up to attend to him, provide verbal praise and turn shopping into an enjoyable activitiy for him. I did practice shopping with my son. This just reminded me of when my son was 5 and pestering me a few weeks about buying Ninja Turtle figures. Personally dh and I always said no to fads and toys that would promote aggressive/violent play. But I finally said ds and I would spend the afternoon "looking" at Ninja Turtle toys. We saw cheap toys with NT stickers on them and some soft action figures. He was pretty disappointed and I never heard any requests for NT after that.
Sometimes we would go to ToysRUs to just look. They could put something in the cart or hold it for awhile in the store. By the time we got half way through the store they lost interest and really didn't want anything.
From the beginning we tried to teach them smart shopping. In general if there was something they wanted to buy, after a week or so of wanting, then we might go to the store to look and discuss it. Go home and think about it for a number of days. Finally come to some decision later. For the most part, I wouldn't let them watch much commercial TV until they were pretty old too. We discussed commercials /manipulation. I think they were 12, 9 and 6 when I loosened up.
scotmama, no kids are alike. Advice from others is always just that, advice. If you try it and it doesn't work, move on. Do give things time to work though. Try to catch him doing positive things and praise the heck out of him or reward him.
[QUOTE=crazymama]scotmama, no kids are alike. Advice from others is always just that, advice. If you try it and it doesn't work, move on. Do give things time to work though. Try to catch him doing positive things and praise the heck out of him or reward him. [/QUOTE]
I totally agree. No kids are a like and it does all take time. 
I had the over stimulated problem with my son as well. I would leave him home part of the time, but take him when it wasn't too crucial, to teach him how to behave, knowing that I may just have to leave my cart in the Ilse and walk out and go home.
[/QUOTE]
I've seen this done on parenting shows. The advice was to "practice" shopping, just as you did, poodledoodles. Good idea.
[/QUOTE]
Thanks Imac.