Manipulation and Power Behavior | ADHD Information

msquaredh - if you run away - can I come too.

Life just wasnt meant to be this way was it?  Maybe if you just run away for a weekend occassionaly - this might help. 

It is hard, life is hard!  But you have companionship here with the rest of us strugglers.  Try to find some good moments between all the mess and hang on to those.  My grandmother once told me to be an island amoungst the noise.  She had 16 children.  She believed in taking her self outside the situation mentally and exist in her own happy thoughts.  This is like a little mental holiday.

If I havent helped, I hope you feel a little less alone

I need advice on my 7 year old son.  He's ADHD and has been medicated since age 3 1/2.  He's very intelligent, and socially awkward.  Dad's impatient with him and is prone to yelling.  I reach wit's end and lose it more than I want to, too, although I'm not as intolerant as my husband.  My son has become very brilliant and manipulative.  There isn't a request I have that he doesn't have a condition.  During the day, he's better although he has bad days.  Problems are mornings and nights.  He acts virtually retarded, heckling his younger brother, making wierd chants and noises that he knows are very irritating to everyone around him.  It's as if he feels he has power when he had irritated everyone else.  A free radical, if you will.  Asking him to stop is like crying in the rain.  It falls on deaf ears.  Discipline is difficult because I can't come up with a good consequence for him running off repetitively in the store and parking lot.  Neither can I give him a consequence in the morning when he's getting ready for school.  He has gone to school with his teeth unbrushed because "the car leaves at 7:55" and the remorse only lasted until the next morning.  As time has gone on, I have felt like he thinks of me as a pushover and he doesn't seem to feel he should do anything I ask of him.  Oh, he has a couple of banner days of trying, but then it returns to the manipulative behavior.  Even issuing punishments, he tries to plea bargain or set conditions.  No amount of denying those conditions has any effect.  This and the sassy back-talk really make me feel like a slime smear in the parent world. 

I see my youngest son becoming ADHD at 5 and I don't think I can handle two of those kinds of kids.  My youngest one thinks I'm not serious when I ask him to do something.  He thinks it's all a joke or he whimpers as if he's being treated cruelly by the inhumane Mom.  He's worse with Dad because he's a momma's boy. 

My friends and parents all acknowledge my efforts, but not even my travelling husband can help this woman who is standing in the fire being consumed.  Between his yelling at the kids, and my defending them, their fighting and behaviors, I can't imagine doing this another 18 years.  Is this a punishment - life in H___?  I feel at times like just running away and starting life somewhere where happiness isn't just a distant memory of life before marriage and children.

manipulation to me is not a nasty!  It is something that is used all the time, for good and bad.  It can also be called coaxing, bribing, etc etc.  Unfortunately I have never been so good at it, because I am too blunt (and that causes probs too).

When people tell me to think about what I am saying and word it so as it will get the response I am looking for from that person - is that not manipulation?  Yet it is also called communicating.

The fact that your son is trying to manipulate you, is really not a big problem.  He is just trying to see how powerful he is in his own world.  I try to just stand back and let my kids try to manipulate me and sometimes give them little wins, because it builds up their self esteem a little.

But most times, I will turn it into a funny thing and say something like I know what you are up to you cheeky rat, dont you think you can pull a swifty on me.  Or I will tell them that I have magic powers and know exactly what they are thinking and when they are lying, and I catch them so often that they are starting to believe it.  My older kids still ask me how I know, I say I have known you since you first existed, I know your sound, smell, movements, quirks and I love everything about you, even when you are being naughty.

Your boy will make heaps of attempts at trying to assert himself, this is part of learning to be a man.  When you see him manipulating, say to him, If you want something from me son, this is how you get it, or I respond very well to this ....

 

Teach him how to manipulate but manipulate positively - if he has a talent and an interest in human nature (shown through manipulation) direct it, perhaps he could make a great psychiatrist one day.

 

[QUOTE=msquaredh]

So, do you think it would be wrong of me to teach my son the definition of manipulate and to kindly point it out in some sort of sign language when I feel that he is manipulating me?  [/QUOTE]

If he will respond to a sign language prompt, or a special word - that would be great.  We have had some success when discussing behaviors calmly (set a time limit for the conversation or you might end up 'harping', I know I do!)  When my son was that age (he is 11 now), discipline was almost impossible because he would find something positive in every consequence. 

Make a BIG deal when he displays appropriate behavior, or modifies his behavior when you give him the signal.  Maybe even set up some kind of reward system (small but meaningful). 

I hope you can find something that works.  I know we have modified our own behavior over the years to accomodate the fact that our son compensates for every situation.  It serves him well, but it makes us crazy! 

msquaredh,  The way I solved the morning problem (suggested by his pediatrician) was to wake my son up 1/2 hour before he gets up to take his meds.  Then I let him go back to sleep.  When I do get him up the meds are in effect and the mornings are much, much better.  We were also having problems in the evening with the rebound effect of the Adderall XR then the basic ADHD non-medicated behaviour.  By adding Strattera to the med mixture this really made a difference in his evening behaviour.  He takes both the those meds in the morning.  -Gettingagrip- gettingagrip38239.3362268519

Thank you, Rae.  Obviously, it's not all bad all the time - otherwise we'd never have children and the population does continue to explode.  Anyway, I was imploding last night when I posted and your words of wisdom are so powerful, I think I'll print them out and put them by my computer which is my escape mechanism.  Better yet, I'll put them on the bathroom mirror so that when I look at myself in the mirror, I can say them to myself.  Thanks for taking my hand and helping me out of the trench - at least for another two hours, at which time school will let out.

So, do you think it would be wrong of me to teach my son the definition of manipulate and to kindly point it out in some sort of sign language when I feel that he is manipulating me?  I guess I had better be prepared for dealing with how he feels towards me when I respond in negative form to his behavior.  It must be hard on him to deal with not only growing up, but realizing you're under someone else's power for 18 years and have to mind them, deal with parents' bad moods and behaviors, and sibling competitiveness and jealousy, but then to have a problem like ADHD to compound the problem to boot!

It's easy to become resentful of your child's behaviour and believe me I have dreamed of that peaceful place many times. My son is now 12 and I have been down your path.

What I have found to work with my son is...

My belief in him, he knows that no matter what happens I love him and believe in him, even when the world including himself is against him and his behaviour. He really wants to keep that belief alive and i encourage him through positive reinforcement.

When he shows positive behaviour: I was really impressed at the way you handled that JD :), you are so cleaver. Wow, how did you do that, that's brilliant. Your teacher tells me you had a good week at school, well done!

I go out of my way to catch him doing things right, and always accentuate the positive and eliminate the negative. He loves to impress me now and will find ways to do this.

When he does something unacceptable I encourage him to come up with a solution: What could you have done differently in that situation? What will you do differently next time? What did you learn from this? My son has a couple of idols and I will ask him, What do you think Rove would do in that situation?

I am by no means a "perfect parent" and everything comes through learning from what works and what doesn't work. I have found with my son he loves to be praised and encouraged, he loves to brainstorm ideas, so if he is annoying his older sisters I will sit with him and brainstorm some ideas of other things he could be doing. Yes we still have the occasional yelling match, we both agree now when that happens we move to different ends of the house until we both calm down, then we get together and discuss it proactively. Yes sometimes I am absolutely exhausted, however I wouldn't change him, I believe in him and love his personality, I trully believe he will accomplish great things in his life, that is what gets me through.

I guess my theory here is... these children are craving attention. I have encouraged him to get the response from his positive behaviour rather than his negative behaviour.

Hope this helps and keep smiling they are worth it!

Shelly

 

 

msquaredh,
  You just basically described my sons behavior. My son is 6 years old going on 30.
He was diagnosed 2 years ago with ADHD and is currently taking ritalin in the afternoon. About a year ago my husband and I took him to see a therapist and we were told that he sees himself equal to an adult . He to makes weird irritating noises knowing how everyone feels and does not care about consequence or punishment. He argues everything with me. I try not to give him choices because he wants all the choices or else.  He negotiates and  plea bargains  about most situations. He has very little respect for women. He calls me, " little mommy" or " little girl". He has already got the answer to everything in his mind so if my answer is not what he wants to hear then he just doesn't hear it , he shuts his hearing off to me, or he cuts me off won't let finish speaking and goes right into the negotiating. Every morning and evening is a struggle for us as well. But I love my son very much and sometimes I feel that there is a reason that I was chosen to have a child with a different view of the world. Don't get me wrong it's not all bad he tells me constantly that he loves and gives lots of hugs.

Wow are we talking about my child

My son does the same thing he plea bargins everything and we will see is an automatic yes to him and if we say no not right now he whines and becomes hysterical and repeats the same question over adn over again until you cant handle it anymore so you give in

He also barks like a dog or makes hig pitched siren noices just ot upset his older brother or to irritate me....

since he has been on medication his behavor has gotton worse at night once the medication wears off he is super hyper and he is more defiant (i am not sure if it just builds up when he is on medication and then when it wears off he is a wind up toy)

I used to fear the future teenage years, but having thought about this type of behavior, I see that it's intelligence at work on an immature mind.  I do hold a lot of trepidation about sleepovers and driving, especially as a teenageer.  I can picture in my mind what this child would be like if he was sixteen and his medication had worn off.  Say we had a disagreement and he took off in the car.  I can only imagine that he would fall into the same fate that a number of my high school colleagues fell into - several of them died in accidents.  I cannot imagine anything worse than working so hard so many years with this intelligent child to lose him in an act of irrational defiance. 

Good news for me, though.  Christopher wanted to see what it would be like to go a day without taking his meds.  I agreed, but stipulated that it had to be on a weekend.  We did it Saturday and he was able to keep himself moderately in control most of the time.  There were a few times he lost it for a while, so we had worked out a sign - his choice - for me to tell him he was losing control.  I used it two or three times.  I had expected that to go unnoticed.  He explained to me that he was "getting used to it."  He wasn't able to have quality conversation with me and he was mean to his brother all day, but it wasn't totally terrible.  Perhaps he will someday be better able to control himself.  If Dad doesn't have an anyurism first and if Mom doesn't just blow a gasket

Does anyone know how to deal with a Dad who's a screamer and a lecturer?  It almost seems as if I have a choice - leave my husband and traumatize my children or sacrifice my childrens' confidence and accept him as he is.  I've talked with him about it and he just can't discuss anything without losing it.  I can't change him and he won't seek counseling.  I can't help but wonder if Christopher's problems aren't exacerbated by that.