What should I say? | ADHD Information
I just read your story on the other post. I would absolutely have him evaluated by a psychiatrist (medical doctor) who has experience treating children with mood disorders. IMHO, you are looking at something beyond ADHD/ODD. And then I would set up an appointment with a neuropsychologist, who can do hours of testing to assess for many childhood disorders, including but not limited to ADHD. I have two children with bipolar disorder, and we have had them evaluated by both professionals so we know what we are truly dealing with. I had never heard that.. 6 weeks, I don't know if I can last that longYes he has been on Ritalin LA and the short acting to compensate as well.
He has also been on Adderall XR, Concerta and Metadate... After two years of quick fixes and then the always dependable relapse of behavior I just don't know what to think anymore.
I read your story, and one part of it that struck me was that your son was "normal" until he was two-and-a-half years old. Suddenly, there was a change. This can happen with autism, in particular, and I would really like OlderMom to read your story because she has an autistic son. Also, could you describe your son's behavior a little more thoroughly? Is he raging? Is he super hyper? Does he speak and communicate well? Does he make eye contact? In some ways, your story sounded like you were describing bipolar, and in other ways, it sounded like your were describing autism. Again, OlderMom can help you with this. I definitely would have this child evaluated by a neuropsychologist, though. smallmom~
I posted before I saw your reply. He started off on Adderall and it was a bit of a change..not enough that I would say his behavior was acceptable but a change none the less. His dosage was eventually increased and he had the Paradoxical Effect (Rage Destructive etc) there is more on that in the post I left the link for. Ritalin LA worked the same (with out the Paradoxical effect) until it didn't and they continued to increase the dosage and eventually started him on the concerta and the same with it..worked until it didn't (was on 36mg and then 54mg) When he was taken off that he was put on 20mg of Metadate then increased to 30 and we had another Paradoxical Effect..He was "putting other students lives in danger" a quote from the Principal. Now he is on Straterra.
Dear Raine,
I tried to read your story but could not find it among the many. How old is your son? My ds is 11 and has alot of the same behavior that you describe about your son. I homeschooled him for 3rd grade, he went to 4th but only because he was on meds--but hated every minute of the adderall because he came home and had awful meldowns and he lost lots of weight. He started public school for 5th but no longer on meds. His behavoir got worse and worse at school; I could no longer take the almost daily calls from the school, so I pulled him out and I am homeschooling him once again. He is much happier at home and I am too--less stress for both of us. He recently started seeing a Psycologist so we could work on his ODD and I started him back on vitamin supplements like Omega, 5-HTP and Grape seed. My son has always took his frustrations out on his 10 yr. old sister--but I think I have finally found something to curb that. I wrote on a chart the amount of allowance each gets every week, then I start subtracting amounts for negative behavior. I decide to start w/ just two behaviors so not to overwhelm the kids; .25cents for hitting and namecalling and .30c for being disrespectful to parents. I give them .10c extra for acts of kindness. WOW! Yesterday they played so well together without fighting once
In comination of the money reward you must "reward" with positive comments about how well they are playing w/ one another. Oh, one last thing, when you deduct don't rant about it or give several warnings just state what you are doing and go do it 
Rebekah
lillan~Super Hyper doesn't begin to explain how he is. I think he has forgotten how to walk..he runs jumps bounces everywhere he goes. He can't be still He will look you in the eye to speak, but he begins to smile and laugh or giggle and he will break eye contact. He is destructive..Toys books our house. He gets into EVERYTHING. I find food and just general household items hidden in his room. He can be told to do something very simple.."Zachary Don't touch that"... and he will do it right there in front of me..as if just for spite. He is very impulsive (ball goes in the road he goes after it etc) easily excitable. As I have said earlier he is home right now because the school can't control him. Right now is quiet time and I bet I have told him 25 times to please let me have my quiet time.. Stay in your room for a bit.
He hasn't hurt himself but he has no problem in hurting others. His little sister is 3 and right now has a fat lip, a bruise and bump on her forhead. He shares a room with his two year old brother and I fear that he will be next on Zachary's rough housing list.
When I said that Zachary was normal until he was about 2 1/2 I meant that he never had any of these things happening with him before that. The only thing I can remember that he did before that was if he got upset he would get on all fours and bang his head on the floor..no matter where we were.
I really appreciate everyone's input and I look forward to talking with OlderMom.
I heard that Straterra can take up to six weeks???
Have you tried Ritalin?
You are not going to see results quickly with Strattera -- it does take 4 to 6 weeks at a therapeutic dose to kick in. It is not the same as stimulants, which kick in the same day they're taken. What other meds has he been on and what side effects did you see?
I have been browsing the board for several days now and I feel as if I am on overload. I can relate to so many of the posts on here. My son's story can be read here http://www.adhdnews.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=8848&P N=1&TPN=49&FID=1&PR=3 It is a very long post, but it details what he has been through. As an update to that post: Zachary went back to school yesterday after starting his Straterra and being gone for 2 days to attempt to adjust to it. I got a phone call from the Assistant Principal at 8:30 asking if I could come get him..I didn't have the car so she brought him home just a few minutes later. She suggested that I keep him home Thursday and Friday as well to give him a couple of more days to adjust, because they just cannot handle the way he is behaving and acting. (he begins his 25mg Straterra tonight)
I have been reading about NeuroPsych evals, bipolar, autisim etc. According to the Psychologist's dx from two years ago Zachary has ADHD and ODD. I was also told by him that a NeuroPsych eval would be useless in our case.. a lot of time and money and we wouldn't find out anything different. I believed him, but he isn't a parent of a child with this dx, he doesn't understand the way that you guys do. I read in a thread earlier that a dx of ODD is basically useless on it's own and results because of an underlying issue.
I have thought for a long time that ADHD and ODD just isn't it...if that is the right dx to begin with. He will start new meds and they may calm him down just a bit for a small amount of time and then we are back at the doc trying to figure out another dosage or another rx all together. He has been on the 18 mg a night of Straterra for 4 nights now.. I see NO change..not the slightest bit of slowing down or obedience for the smallest task or request. Constant running through the house, speaking well above an "inside voice" anytime he talks. And he continues to laugh and smile at me every time I attempt to speak or discipline him. He is way to rough with his younger siblings. My youngest daughter still ahs a bruise and bump on her forehead where he pushed her into the wall. His excuse was he wasn't trying to push her into the wall, but the window instead. I am lost I don't know what to do.
We go back to the Pediatrician we have started seeing for this on Tuesday. I am not sure what to say or ask. I am hoping that someone reading this and "our story" in the other thread can relate and give some advice.
Thank you so much
Jamescrazymom~Our story is the last one on page 49 in the very first thread on the board. I could never homeschool. I thought about it for awhile, but with the disrespect Zachary shows towards me...it would never work. I have tried (what seems like) every reward/consequence there is. I have started small. Taking away a toy..to cleaning out his entire room of nothing but a bed his favorite stuffie and even taking his stuffed animal away..No repsonse. I am a Trained Cub Scout Leader and I thought that getting Zachary involved in Scouting would be a good thing for him. After a couple of moths we had to stop Scouting because of his behavior. We have even taken away trips to see NASCAR events (his Favorite thing) Reward and Consequence just doesn't work with him.
I just got off the phone with the Peditrician and he said that Straterra can take 4-6 weeks as redlipstick said. He asked me if everyone involved could wait that long. I told him there was no way.. Just his hurting his siblings alone cannot last four weeks not to mention just the general behavior as a whole and not being able to atend school. He said they were going to start over from scratch. He is making a few calls and setting up an appointment with a Psychatrist or Psychologist (couldn't understand as Zachary was being so loud while I was on the phone.) He is hoping that we will have this under control by the fall when Zachary should be starting the 2nd grade
I am sorry if this post hasn't made much sense. I am here with tears just rolling because I don't know what to do or what is going to happen.
raine, strattera has a half life in the bloodstream of 5 hours. If you give your son his dose at night, you've lost half the efficacy by morning. It does stay in the bloodstrem longer than stimulants, but levels go up and down depending on the dosing schedule. Give it to him at breakfast. I have split the dose into 40 mg in the morning and 20 at lunch. This seems to help him get all the way through his day. He has pre-algebra last thing in the afternoon and was losing focus by the time it started. It is not the most convenient schedule, but we go with what works. Also, Strattera can take up to 6 weeks to work, but my ds seemed to improve after about 2 weeks.
Where are you in nc? I'm in Greensboro!
Susieb, I live in Kenly...Pretty close to Goldsboro and Raleigh.
We were giving it to him at night, because the ped said that if we gave it to him then it would be well into his system by the morning. He was suppose to start his first 25mg dosage tonight, but the doctor is having us hold off until he can call me back and tell me what other possible medication we can try (we don't have 4 weeks right now since he can't return to school like this).
Did you son have the Neuro eval? If so where did you go?
I have only lived in NC since '97. Before that the only BBQ I knew was Texas BBQ... Covered in a thick red sauce. I just love Carolina BBQ, Wilbers on 70 E between Goldsboro and Lagrange is pretty good too.
The Pedi just called and has decided to put Zach on Foclain XR 10 mg in the morning along with a 5mg fast acting Foclain at the same time. If this doesn't help we may revisit the Straterra after school is out when time isn't against us. Raine, you may want to visit the alternatives board, too. Look into things like omega three fatty acids and fish oil. These are supposed to help with behavior. When Zach starts the focalin keep him home from school that day just to watch. Is he just hyper? What kind of behavior do you see with him? Thanks Lillian :)
Susieb, I will check those links out. I didn't even think about the Straterra not helping with the impulsive behavior. Haven't seen any change so I didn't single that out. I will talk to the doc about taking it in the am along with a stimulant. Thanks so much for the info :)
We are going to Chapel Hill at the begining of June for our DD, and I will also ask there about NeuroPsych.
Patrick's is still there on 301. I have never eaten there. I actually live 4 miles east of Kenly. In the country with wide open spaces for Zachary to run and run and run
[QUOTE=Raine_in_nc]Thanks Lillian :)
Patrick's is still there on 301. I have never eaten there. I actually live 4 miles east of Kenly. In the country with wide open spaces for Zachary to run and run and run
[/QUOTE]
You haven't missed anything! The only reason we ate there is because the Parker's BBQ in Wilson wasn't open. We always ate at Parker's on our way to and from Kill Devil Hills! They have premiere Eastern NC BBQ! Here in Greensboro they have mostly lexington-style BBQ. Blech!!!!
Good luck in Chapel Hill!susieb38842.4973148148 Here are two links about dosing. Both talk about morning and afternoon/evening. I take meds for epilepsy and I know that blood levels are not the same all the time. We started giving strattera at bedtime because a side effect is sleepiness. It was like we weren't giving him anything at all! When we switched to morning dosing, the improvement was noticeable!
http://www.drkoop.com/druglibrary/93/strattera-indications_d osage.html
http://www.johnswank.com/Strattera.htm
My ds was dxed at a neurology practice in Winston-Salem after we moved to Greensboro. The neuro-psych did about 5 hours of testing and found that he had ADD and dysgraphia. If you're in Kenly and they don't have a neuropsych, you could go to Raleigh, Chapel Hill, Fayetteville or if you're closer, Greenville. ECU has a pretty good Medical school now and I'm sure you can find one there.
We used to live in Fayetteville and would take 95N to 64 to go to the beach. We'd always get off at Kenly and I've even eaten in Patrick's Restaurant right near the interstate. Is it still there?
susieb38842.467962963You know, another thing you could try is giving him a stimulant with the Strattera. My ds continued to take Adderall after he started Strattera. He went off it after 2 mos, and there was no interaction. Later on, we added in Ritalin LA for impulse control. Strattera doesn't do anything to help that. The thing we're most grateful for with the Strattera is that Patrick can focus after school and even into the evening.
(We ate at Patrick's Restaurant because my son Patrick thought it was pretty cool to have a restaurant named after him. However, it's not someplace I'd go out of my way to go to.)
Raine,
You can find neuropsychologists at major universities and large children's hospitals.