Doc Appt Monday....I need advice, please! | ADHD Information
I am going to ask the doc for a change in my medication but I don't know to what.
I have been on Concerta which was just BAD. It made me feel like a sack of potatoes. I could not lift my body from the couch, I was not eating and i overall felt like hell
Then Barr generic Adderall IR 10mg 2x which was much less cruddy then Concerta but I still did not see any positive effects plus once it wore off I was COMPLETLEY drained and had a terrible pressure headache and blurred vision. I was still not eating like before meds, but I was eating more than with Concerta. I have heard such terrible things about Barr that I thought that may be the problem so I tried...
Shire Adderall. The "Crash" is not nearly as severe as with Barr, though I am VERY aware when it wears off (~3-3.5 hours). I started this week on 10 but quickly moved to 15 for a couple of days and today i took 20 x2 for the first time. The effects are definetly livable. It does not effect my appetite (much to my dismay) and I am still getting a MILD pressure headache right at 3 hours (regardless of dose). I am NOT concetrating any better, not energized (pretty tired actually), I am not motivated and I definelty have not felt a sudden urge become a neat freak (all of which I have heard other people experience during there first week of the "right" med).
My quality of sleep has improved from Concerta to Shire Adderall, but I have never before in my life had such a hard time getting out of bed. I get 7+/- hours of sleep but when the alarm goes off at 7, I cannot move my body for at least another hour. I wonder, if I did not have to feed the "kids" (four legged) if I would even get out of bed.
I might be a little depressed, though I have been worse. More than anything I am anxious about starting school.
I don't know if I should give up on the Adderall, since there are no major negative effects.
Maybe what I need is to combine it with something else, but what (Wellbutrin, Strattera, Lexapro ect..)
Or keep increaseing the dose
Or try XR in the morning and IR in the afternoon.
Or maybe I should just give up (I hate those two words) and try something all together different, but what?
All I know is that I have wasted the last three weeks, barely having studied at all. because of the way these meds make me feel. I start school next tuesday and I will NOT be successful if I start feeling the way I do.
Sorry this was such a long post. I just don't know what else to do.
Jessi, I know you've told us, but who diagnosed your ADHD?I've also forgotten when you started your meds and how long you were on the different ones. Has it been more than a month?
IMac38842.5666550926
UPDATE:
Sunday I did not take any meds b/c I was out of shire and refused to take Barr when neither seemed to do any good.
I was ok, though unable to focus on anything I tried to do, until about 2pm. That's when the crying started. I was miserable, the whole world was falling around me (oh so it felt/feels).
My mother (understandably) got scared and made me call my aunt who is a psychiatrist. She said that I most likely was not reacting appropriatly to the meds b/c the doc started me on to high a dose. She also said that first and foremost I needed to get the depression under control. She was also mad that he started me off on 2 meds (Concerta + Lexapro) instead of one at a time.
So, long story short, I am going to start tomorrow taking small doses of Wellbutrin and slowly increase. He also gave me Xanax for high anxiety days, like yesterday. After a month or 2 I will start on very small doses of plain ol' regular Ritalin at small doses and increase slowly.
Today I am feeling mildly better than yesterday, but not by a whole lot. Amongst many other things that are causing me anxiety, I am terrified about starting back at school tomorrow.
Any ways, that is my story for anyone who is wondering
Not to change the subject, but do you think theis is why I have started farting up a storm since I started Adderall? Its driving my wife and dog crazy.
and if this is of any interest to you - this is one person's reaction to a first time on Adderall. although he doesn't claim to have ADD at all, claims to be a 'normal' hmmm not so sure - but i thought it might be of interest because he writes very clearly about the effects it had on him.
it is experimenting without a diagnosis and kinda written in a humourous vein but i hope it isn't gonna upset yall.
The Adderall Me My romance with ADHD meds. By Joshua Foer
Updated Tuesday, May 10, 2005, at 7:26 AM ET
Depressives have
Prozac, worrywarts have Valium, gym rats have steroids, and
overachievers have Adderall. Usually prescribed to treat Attention
Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder (read Sydney Spiesel in Slate
on the risks and benefits), the drug is a cocktail of amphetamines that
increases alertness, concentration, and mental-processing speed and
decreases fatigue. It's often called a cognitive steroid because it can
make people better at whatever it is they're doing. When scientists
administered amphetamines to college shot-putters, they were able to
throw more than 4 percent farther.*
According to one recent study, as many as one in five college students
have taken Adderall or its chemical cousin Ritalin as study buddies.
The drug also has a distinguished literary pedigree. During his most productive two decades, W.H. Auden began every morning with a fix of Benzedrine, an over-the-counter amphetamine similar to Adderall that was used to treat nasal congestion. James Agee, Graham Greene, and Philip K. Dick all took the drug to increase their output. Before the FDA made Benzedrine prescription-only in 1959, Jack Kerouac got hopped up on it and wrote On the Road in a three-week "kick-writing" session. "Amphetamines gave me a quickness of thought and writing that was at least three times my normal rhythm," another devotee, John-Paul Sartre, once remarked.
If stimulants worked for those writers, why not for me? Who wouldn't want to think faster, be less distracted, write more pages? I asked half a dozen psychiatrists about the safety of using nonprescribed Adderall for performance-enhanced journalism. Most of them told me the same thing: Theoretically, if used responsibly at a low dosage by someone who isn't schizophrenic, doesn't have high blood pressure, isn't on other medications, and doesn't have some other medical condition, the occasional use of Adderall is probably harmless. Doctors have been prescribing the drug for long enough to know that, unlike steroids, it has no long-term health consequences. Provided Adderall isn't snorted, injected, or taken in excessive amounts, it's not highly addictive—though without doctor oversight, it's hard to know whether you're in the minority of people for whom the drug may be dangerous.
Continue Article
As an experiment, I decided to take Adderall for a week. The results were miraculous. On a recent Tuesday, after whipping my brother in two out of three games of pingpong—a triumph that has occurred exactly once before in the history of our rivalry—I proceeded to best my previous high score by almost 10 percent in the online anagrams game that has been my recent procrastination tool of choice. Then I sat down and read 175 pages of Stephen Jay Gould's impenetrably dense book The Structure of Evolutionary Theory. It was like I'd been bitten by a radioactive spider.
The first hour or so of being on Adderall is mildly euphoric. The feeling wears off quickly, giving way to a calming sensation, like a nicotine buzz, that lasts for several hours. When I tried writing on the drug, it was like I had a choir of angels sitting on my shoulders. I became almost mechanical in my ability to pump out sentences. The part of my brain that makes me curious about whether I have new e-mails in my inbox apparently shut down. Normally, I can only stare at my computer screen for about 20 minutes at a time. On Adderall, I was able to work in hourlong chunks. I didn't feel like I was becoming smarter or even like I was thinking more clearly. I just felt more directed, less distracted by rogue thoughts, less day-dreamy. I felt like I was clearing away underbrush that had been obscuring my true capabilities.
At the same time, I felt less like myself. Though I could put more words to the page per hour on Adderall, I had a nagging suspicion that I was thinking with blinders on. This is a concern I've heard from other users of the drug. One writer friend who takes Adderall to read for long uninterrupted stretches told me that he uses it only rarely because he thinks it stifles his creativity. A musician told me he finds it harder to make mental leaps on the drug. "It's something I've heard consistently," says Eric Heiligenstein, clinical director of psychiatry at the University of Wisconsin. "These medications allow you to be more structured and more rigid. That's the opposite of the impulsivity of creativity." On the other hand, lots of talented people like Auden and Kerouac have taken amphetamines precisely because they find them inspiring. Kerouac and the Beats ingested the drug in such heroic quantities that it didn't just make them more focused, it completely transformed their writing. According to legend, On the Road was drafted in a 120-foot-long single-spaced paragraph that burbled down a single continuous scroll of paper.
Adderall is supposed to be effective for four to six hours. (An extended-release version of the drug, which as Spiesel explains was recently banned in Canada, lasts 12 hours.) But I found the effects gradually wore off after about three. About six hours after taking the drug, I would feel slightly groggy, the way I sometimes get in the early afternoon when my morning coffee wears off. But when I'd lie down for an afternoon nap, I couldn't go to sleep. My mind was still buzzing. This withdrawal effect is common. Adderall users often complain that they feel tired, "stupid," or depressed the day after. After running on overdrive, your body has to crash.
For me, the comedown was mild, a small price to pay for an immensely productive day. But there are larger costs, and risks, to Adderall. Though the Air Force furnishes amphetamine "go pills" to its combat pilots in Iraq and Afghanistan, possessing Adderall (or a fighter jet) without a prescription is a felony in many states. And the drug has been known, in rare cases, to make people obsessive compulsive, and even occasionally to cause psychosis. Several years ago, a North Dakota man blamed Adderall for making him murder his infant daughter and won an acquittal.
There's also the risk that Adderall can work too well. The mathematician Paul Erdös, who famously opined that "a mathematician is a device for turning coffee into theorems," began taking Benzedrine in his late 50s and credited the drug with extending his productivity long past the expiration date of his colleagues. But he eventually became psychologically dependent. In 1979, a friend offered Erdös 0 if he could kick his Benzedrine habit for just a month. Erdös met the challenge, but his productivity plummeted so drastically that he decided to go back on the drug. After a 1987 Atlantic Monthly profile discussed his love affair with psychostimulants, the mathematician wrote the author a rueful note. "You shouldn't have mentioned the stuff about Benzedrine," he said. "It's not that you got it wrong. It's just that I don't want kids who are thinking about going into mathematics to think that they have to take drugs to succeed."
Erdös had good reason to worry. Kerouac's excessive use of Benzedrine eventually landed him in a hospital with thrombophlebitis. Auden went through a withdrawal in the late 1950s that tragically curtailed his output. That's some trouble I don't need. Perhaps I could get a regular supply of Adderall by persuading a psychiatrist that I have ADHD—it's supposed to be one of the easiest disorders to fake. But I don't think I will. Although I did save one pill to write this article.
Correction, May 18, 2005: The original article incorrectly stated that the lap times of Stanford varsity swimmers who were given amphetamines improved by 4 percent. The source of that statistic is a Web page by Dr. Lawrence Diller of the University of California, San Francisco, that misinterprets the findings of a 1959 study. The study found that the speeds of Boston-area college swimmers improved only by a mean of 1.16 percent, a statistically significant figure. It also found that collegiate shot-putters were able to throw 4.6 percent farther on amphetamines. (Return to the corrected sentence.)
chjones38845.5272106482
I do feel like I need some sort of anti-d/anti-a. And if I can get a med that does both that and ADD, then bonus!
School right now is like having an oral exam everyday, but you don't know on what subject or at what moment they are going to start asking you questions. I am a year short of being a doctor, I am "supposed" to know everything RIGHT? Even when there is a designated subject that will be discussed, being placed "on the spot" to answer their questions gives me so much anxiety I can hardly remember my name, much less the precentage of female cats that have a particular disease. And then I look like I have not prepared and I am one step closer to failing out.
I am not against taking more than one med (it's only money right?). I just don't know if I should stick with the Adderall and add Wellbutrin to it or if I should try the dexedrine with the Wellbutrin or alone. My problem with starting 2 new meds at the same time is that if the SE are bad, there is no way of knowing which of the 2 was the cause. That is why I stopped BOTH the Concerta and the Lexapro before.
Isn't dexedrine the L-isomer for Adderall, like focalin is for Ritalin. If the mixed salt does not work, how/why will the isolated isomer be any different?
Any answers you could give me would be great. But at least I have formulated some pretty good one for the doc (I think)
[QUOTE=GlenW]A change to dexedrine might be a good idea - at least to try. [/QUOTE]
I have read in a couple places that dexedrine is for HYPERACTIVE which I am not. I talk a lot, and I read that is sometime the only hyperactiviy that females show. But my Dx was inattentive.
Does any one have any opinions on Wellbutrin? I am VERY anxious about starting school next week and I was thinking that could help with ADD/Anxiety/Depression.
I can assure you that dexedrine isn't just for the hyperactive ADHDers! I was quite sedentary when I was diagnosed - just had the scattered attention and fog that comes with inattentive ADHD. The dexedrine both removed the fog and brought me into focus. Also it gave me a newfound energy that wasn't jittery overactive type but a drive that I never had before.
Wellbutrin is being used as an alternative to stimulants in some cases where people seem to not react to them in the usual way (like gaining tolerance quickly). Mixed results if you ask around here but it does help some. In many cases I'm hearing that it is being used in combination with ADHD meds. The only thing to watch out for is seratonin syndrome (from withdrawing SSRI meds too quickly). Otherwise for adults it seems quite safe.
You'll find once you get a good med and good therapy that much of the depression is simply sadness over an incomplete life. I haven't felt truly sad to that extent in over a year - just general day-to-day kind that comes from validly feeling that way.
Good questions jessi - at least you have basic pharmacology so you understand some of what is in there.
Dexedrine is Dextroamphetamine sulphate - while the dextro in Adderall is Dextroamphetamine saccharate - the carrier is very different. And with the differing chemistry of Adderall it's designed to be I guess smoother than dexedrine but contains less of the dexedrine side of the solution.
Personally I cannot speak of any side effects of Adderall as I haven't gone that route but I can personally say that I found the side effects of Dexedrine to be mild and short lived. The only side effects that have stuck around are a minor sexual side effect and mild IBS that I treat with an Rx that is monumentally cheap. No big issue.
Anxiety is with us with or without meds remember that. My two younger sisters show ADHD traits (un Dxed and un Rxed) and have immense anxiety (both also have agoraphobia to some extent). It seems to be a comorbid that is very common with most of us.
Since being on my meds and getting my therapy the anxiety is low. Very low. I still get the voice time to time that tells me that I'm in danger or that I'm being stupid but now I have tools to counter it very well.
And remember that you cannot possibly remember all data that you are going to come up against in veterinary science. It's ever changing and so large and that's what computer databases and desk references are for. Get to know the basics and you'll do fine. Heck - I cannot imagine getting myself into a field where there are thousands of variances from species to species (heck from breed to breed for that manner). Sounds like you have bitten off a big one and are doing fine with it so far. Best wishes for sure.
Thanks for the words of support, I can use all I can get. I know that they don't REALLY expect me to know everything, it just sure feels that way.
Problem is I WAS doing just fine until I hit my senior year. Then a failed my first two rotation.
Pro - that is why I was tested and diagnosed with ADD
Con - the little confidence I had before is now non-existant.
I don't want to make ant-d's (or ADD meds for that manner) a permanent part of my life. But a counsler told me "right now is not the time to experiment with things. Meds have a proven track record, take them, finish vet school and worry about everything else later" I think this really makes sense and so for know it is what I intend to do.
My mother, father, and sister are all on Zoloft and they swear by it. I tried it and had worse insomnia than I do now.
I guess I am just looking for something, anything (legal) to help me succeed, mostly b/c I have lost the confidence to do it on my own and doesn't the diagnosis confirm that?
BTW: Your right about interspecies differences. The big stuff is very similar, but my favorite example of were it is not is with Morphine which has a completly different effect on a dog, cat, horse, and cow.
Senior year of university is always the most difficult. It's where the fun stops and the sweat begins. I remember it's where I felt the axe over my head a few times when I got my degree. Gallons of jolt and a love of computers made the difference lol!
Your doc is right. The meds are tried and tested and proven to be the safest and fastest path to bring the ADHD under control. Could you do it without meds? Sure - but the sweating and anxiety goes up and it's an uphill battle. I could go from where I am completely med free as my brain chemisty seems very much altered but why? It works and I've always gone by if it isn't broken don't fix it.
A lot of the depression and anxiety you feel isn't an imbalance like clinical depression or anxiety disorder. It's everyday life of a university student - you're going through a tough workload and seeing as those of us with ADHD are typically social misfits you don't probably have a lot of outlets that are safe to make you happy. Who wouldn't be uptight and upset??!??
I often wonder why society has moved to where if things upset you or make you nervous that automatically they are bad. Sometimes being sad or anxious is the bodies' way of letting you know that things are on edge. Fix those things that bother you and they will pass. Ride it out - you'll do fine!!
Doggidoc, what effect does morphine have on other animals? I'm curious about that one myself IMac. I know that PCP has a different reaction to animals than to humans - it was originally a horse tranquilizer. Who would have thought it would cause psychosis and hallucinations in people? It's a crazy planet.
Shoot, I was hoping you wouldn't "make me" look it up.
I cut and pasted from my pharm book below:
Morphine's CNS effects are irregular and are species specific. Cats, horses, sheep, goats, cattle and swine may exhibit stimulatory effects after morphine injection, while dogs, humans, and other primates exhibit CNS depression.
Both dogs and cats are sensitive to the emetic effects [induced vomiting] of morphine. Other species (horses, ruminants and swine) do not respond to the emetic effects of morphine.
Following morphine administration, hypothermia may be seen in dogs and rabbits, while hyperthermia may be seen in cattle, goats, horses, and cats. Morphine can cause miosis (pinpoint pupils) in humans, rabbits and dogs.
Reference: Plumb's veterinary Drug Hand Book; 5th edition by Donald C. Plumb
There are a few more effects of morphine, but these are the ones that seperate by species
Hey Glen,
I found this on Wikipedia. So Adderall is made of both saccharate and sulfate dextroamphetamine. Not much of either though, so I guess I can see were dexedrine may work better.
1/4 Dextroamphetamine Saccharate 1/4 Dextroamphetamine Sulfate (Dexedrine®) 1/4 Amphetamine Aspartate 1/4 Amphetamine SulfateI am also wondering if my side effects are all in my head, maybe I was just expecting too much. I don't think so though, because there was nothing positive that I have experienced so far (feeling and productivity) and I would think there would be at least SOMETHING good
I was Dx'd primarily inattentive about 3 weeks before starting meds. I went through several weeks of testing (for LD + ADD) so I had some suspision before the diagnosis was official. I was reading everything I could get my hands on and started taking high doses of Omega3's. From just this I ACTUALLY saw improvement. I was studying consistently (not everyday, but no one is perfect), I was keeping my house relativly clean and for the first time EVER in my life I was cooking myself dinner every night.
I started 18mg of Concerta on April 18th and made it up to 36mg for a few days. After a week I could not take how terrible I felt. The worst part was (besides the lethargy, headache, complete inappetance and feeling like my body was made of led) all that I had acoplished before taking the meds was GONE!!!! My body felt so heavy and I had no energy to do anything but sit on the couch. I was also on Lexapro so I am still not sure if my response was to the Concerta or the Lexapro.
On April 25th (1 week later) the doctor and I decided to stop the Lexapro and concentrate on treating the ADD. So I was put on generic Adderall, as I said above. April 30th was my birthday, so I did not take any meds and I felt better than i had in 2 weeks. I was out all day so I don't know about concentrating.
I did not want to give-up on Adderall since I was on Barr (it was I had to chance it). My doc is out of town, but I was able to get an appointment with one of the general paractionars at school. Since he is not a physchiatrist, he was unsure about giving me something new. So he gave me name brand Adderall.
I think that answers all your questions (maybe with more detail than you expected
)
As far as headaches being like caffeine withdrawl. I am prone to migraines and take exedrin for them, but I do not drink any other caffiene. The headaches I feel with the meds are different.
MIGRAINE - intense focal pain. Usually behind an eye, at my temples or the back of my neck. Light HURTS and my vision blurs.
NOW - pressure inside my head. It almost feels like a vice squeezing at my temples. With the headache concentration is harder than ever. But i don't have sensitivity to light and Exedrin does not help. Actually, my motivation to take the second dose is to make the headache go away. I hate this, i am dependent on a medicine that does me NO GOOD!
one more thing,
I am making an effort to eat. Dinner is hit and miss, but I always eat breakfast and try to eat at least something for lunch.
I am drinking more water than ever before, but I don't retain one drop of it. The dehydration wories me b/c I had a kidney stone in January and the memory of the PAIN is still fresh.
A change to dexedrine might be a good idea - at least to try. I've been on the spansules (which get around six hours of true useful attention) now for about a year and a half and it still works fine at 20mg once to twice a day. Cheap too - with my medical insurance I pay about 20 canadian a month.
Headaches could be like a "coffee headache" where the blood vessels in the brain expect stimulants and constrict in anticipation. They usually go away in about a week or two. Typically if I get a headache I grab a quick coffee and they go away. Most pain killers have caffeine in them for that very reason you know.
Hi,
You might want to try asking your doctor for Dexedrine Tabs (short acting - 4hrs) or Spansules (extended release - 8hrs). Only get the BRAND NAME (your doctor has to mark in on the script). I hear bad things about the generic BARR brand.
It is almost like Adderall, but different.
I have been on AdderallXR for almost 4 years now and am looking for a change. I am going to see my doctor on Monday as well and ask for them.
Hope this helps!