ADHD vs. PDD-NOS | ADHD Information
I notice quite a few people here with children with both - which is why I'm posting.
I have a complex kind of kid (lucky me, right? ) that's got an Axis I of Bipolar-NOS, PDD-NOS, ADHD, ODD. You can strike the ODD, I cured that.
I've read through everything at childbrain.com and a few other places with Autism symptoms. I've read through the DSM for ADHD. We're currently in process of neuropsychological evaluations to determine if Dylan actually has BOTH, or one or the other - and which 
My question is - aside from the lack of social skills, is there anything else that really distinguishes the difference between the two?
I know rages can be a part of PDD - however, I feel they stemmed from the Bipolar, and once the Lithium was in place, the rages ceased completely.
Thanks for any insight!
Janna
Janna, my NeuroPsyc who worked at Mayo Clinic for ten years before moving back home to Wisconsin, told me that ADHD symptoms are part and parcel of PDD's and not seperate. Some PDD kids do ok on stims. Many do not improve and need school supports. The social problems of PDD kids are far more severe than ADHD kids. ADHD kids can be annoying, bossy, demanding, immature and bug the other kids, but they do try to interact and usually have some friends. My daughter's three best friends, as I've often posted, all have ADHD and are all on Straterra. At times, they annoy ME because they babble a lot and tend to tattle and boss (and two are boys.). But all three have friends and are likeable kids who seek out others. PDD kids are more apt to be really inappropriate with no clue about socializing at all. Some, if not most, don't even try. Some try and say the most embarassing things, such as "You're looking lovely today" or they may barge in on a bunch of kids talking about baseball and start talking about their personal obessession "Did you know there are 140 breeds of dogs and four different categories---" That sort of thing. My son's social skills has really improved and he doesn't do that anymore, but he also doesn't do well with interactive conversation. He doesn't talk much in conversational form--often sounds like a "Little Professor." He can name every television show on his favorite station, the times they are shown, the episodes that are being shown that week etc. He memorizes stuff by rote. Yet he has difficulties with abstracts such as writing papers on "What I Did for Spring Break." PDD's are severely socially impaired. In my son's case he doesn't even seem to like to interact. School and sports seem to exhaust him in the social department. When he comes home, he's happiest vegging out and being left alone. I'm told this is common for PDD kids. They are usually most comfortable with family, older and much younger kids. While this can be the case with ADHD, a child with a PDD is far more glaring. Social skills deficits are the biggest issue for PDD kids. They also tend to have trouble in school, with sensory stuff (to the extreme) and are just plain "strange" or "odd ducks" to other kids. Good luck with your appt :) OlderMom38853.2298263889Janna, call me anytime. I'm home now after a "fun" (ahem) field trip pulling weeds with my daughter's school. Haha! ADHD is part of PDD. Calling it a seperate name confuses moms and just encourages the pdocs to add meds when they aren't necessary. ADHD behavior can also be childhood mania. Inattentiveness and the inability to sit still is not exclusive to ADHD. In fact the ADHD kids I know do a lot better at it than my son did. Now he's a couch potato, but during his hyper days NOBODY beat him in the hyperactivity department. NOBODY. We called him "Spiderman." :)Oldermom - I should have just called you - Appt. was yuck - I'll shoot you an email.
I figured the social stuff was already the PDD, not the ADHD. I guess I was just trying to figure out if all the hyperactivity/lack of attention came from the PDD, the ADHD or maybe he has both?
Seems I'm having better luck figuring out my son on my own. What do I need all these doctors for? 
Hugs,
J
Hi,
I am fairly new to the boards. What is PDD-NOS? Your description of your child sounds like my 6 year old ADHD boy.
Thank you!
Pdd nos is one of the Autism spectrum disorders. I think many kids here maybe pdd instead of adhd. We just aren't being told so. I am not a dr. but attention issues can also be part of autism. bp, epilepsy and probebly many other disorders. Autism is stricky cause not any asd child looks a like. I have also read more adults are being dx with asd also. I also know in america asd is dx when it maybe brain injury really. I know a lady who went to Mexico after 12 years in looking in America and was told her son's issue are a result of a brain injury during pregnancey. He is getting cured and will have therapies after his new neurons are regrown first. He sees a Neurologist from there every 6 months. He is given something to regrow these and until then progess will not happen for him. Therapies did very little for him. 10yrs. He also under went chealation first though. This kids is 12 now. I hear 2 times a yr on how is progess is. Older Mom: how did you get the school to honor this dx vs a adhd diagnoses. My feer is will they won't honor that dx. Did you taken in something written so it's part of the paper trail? Please help on this part?
HI,
Thank you for that. I had a quick google search. I will look into it further. I have read a great book called THE GIFT of ADHD which has really changed my view of my son's special circumstances. It doesn't change the dread I feel every time I collect him from school waiting to know how his day was, but it helps me to understand his over stimulated world.
The NeuroPsych report was pretty definitive. I also called the State Dept. of Public Education and asked for the Special Needs Advocate. They have trouble not honoring Autism. And the advocates from the State Depf. of Public Ed won't let your SD get away with callilng autism ADHD. They are very different disorders and there are many autism advocates who will not let your SD off the hook. Get a private dx. Don't trust the school. [QUOTE=nandgmum]
Hi,
I am fairly new to the boards. What is PDD-NOS? Your description of your child sounds like my 6 year old ADHD boy.
Thank you!
PDD-NOS can be found if you do a search engine and put in PDD-NOS. ADHD is often diagnosed when a child has higher functioning autism, but the interventions for ADHD don't work for PDD-NOS. There are a few good sites that explain it. Especially if you child has had a speech delay, shows clueless social skills or no real interest in give and take interaction, freaks out in high stimuli areas and is hyper off the walls, you could have ADHD. I'm quite sure many kids here who are diagnosesd with ADHD have autistic spectrum disorder--it is usually their first diagnosis, often along with ODD (which is SO unfair to an austictic kid--they are NOT defiant--they are overwhelmed and miserable). Early onset bipolar is also a biggie that I see here on the boards, often called ADHD/ODD. Some parents refuse to look beyond ADHD/ODD---it scares them---but not looking beyond won't help the child if he does not have ADHD. I commend all who know "something" else is wrong and look beyond.
[/QUOTE] More signs of a PDD is lack of eye contact, limited interests, stimming, possible langauge delay. Does your child have those also? I always go thru the criteria and say yes or no to which ones my son has. ASD's often are co-morbid with other disorders.
I forgot to say that my son started on bipolar meds at 5yo. After 1 year--we took him off to find a more natural route. It wasn't until after the meds when gone that he really started looking like ASD. Arm flapping, jumping up/down, fingers in mouth, etc. The only stim he had when younger was finger twisting. Now he is really in his own world--wants to be left alone, talks to himself, etc.
Because the rages came back---he is started back on low dose risperdal again and things are improving!!
Interesting. My son has come more alive, stims going away, but, of course, he's much older (13). He is much more socially aware, verbal, and alert than when he was young and just so out of it and socially clueless...some autistic kids do have co-morbids, but ADHD symptoms are just part of the spectrum. Mood disorders are seen with autism 30% of the time. Good luck to your son :)I think age has alot to do with it. I think we were masking the ASD signs with the meds. I'm hoping he will get better the older he gets. He is only in K this year and his school is not an approperiate environment for him. He will be going to the other school next year which has a partial self-contained class. Hopefully the other school will help him.I was told that autistic kids should be allowed to stim and do their obsessions--that they need to do it. My son has learned to do this weird noises, stims, etc. in his room. He never wants to do them in front of people anymore. Age and good interventions help these kids a lot. One good think about ASD is that almost all the kids improve, sometimes significantly, and often without meds. I'd say only half the autistic kids I know are on meds and those are the kids with co-morbid mood disorders. I might add, anxiety is part of autism too. The kids tend to get very anxious is high stimuli areas, during transitions, and when they can't "get it." I understand why they are often mistaken for ADHD, but, when it's so severe, I do question parents who don't explore further. Oh, well. Wish you luck!Holly my son is excately what you are describing. The problem we have always had as he started therapies at 1 and no one wants to give a dx. His is going for a Neuro psych testing paid by our countey SE coop. We can't aford anymore private testing to high in cost. This school looks at private stuff but tends to go by more what their staff say. Since for the next year is going to Se fulltime at another district the dx. won't matter anymore cause this class is small and has varing dx boys in it. The class is less than 10. Can't wait and hope this will turn his possible outlook of school around. We felt not hurt to try since he justed turned 10. 3 staff also. No kid in this class goes unhelped. Our kids will have 2 different schedules. But I feel this is a better fit. This class is not a certain grade either so that won't matter either. It is a more intense learning environment with more repatition daily. Asd is tricky since each one is very different. I have seen asd kids who are social and some who are not. All our school claims to see is adhd. I disagree since I had this kid. RN
Remember all disorders have severities as well.
To be honest, the sad truth is, the best kind of evaluation is private NOT funded by the SD or county--so if you don't have a lot of money or good insurance or nobody will take your Medicaid except Dr. X, who is almost retired and not up to date, you're stuck. We got very lucky. Our university hospitals here take Badgercare (which is Wisconsin's health insurance). Lucas got a complete NeuroPsych eval. from a private professional, and he didn't want to talk to the SD until after he made his dx. We had no trouble getting help after the autism diagnosis, even though it wasn't the SD that diagnosed it. There are some daignoses that can't be ignored and you, as a parent and advocate, can make a big deal out of it if the school won't help your child. Unfortuantely, if you go to school with a diagnosis of stand alone ADHD, you aren't going to get far. The only "up" side is that ADHD rarely stands by itself, and sometimes the other stuff helps get you services. If you feel shortchanged, always feel free to call your state's Dept. of Public Education and ask for the Special Needs Adovate. I don't ever recommend doing an IEP without a local advocate (they are free and your state Spec. Needs Advocate can point you to the right person). If you don't have an Advocate, I've knwon SD's to wait forever to test a child or just flat out refuse. With an advocate, your chances are very good as they advocatesknow the law and will enforce it, sometimes put the screws to the SD. My advocate threatened arbitration if they didn't hurry and get my son tested before the next school year. Our reluctant SD acted like somebody lit a fire under their rears and really got everything in place quickly, but I don't think me and hub could have accomplished anything alone. OlderMom38854.5009722222Legally---the school has to take in account the private eval's over theirs. Thats what I was always told. In fact---the school would rather have private do eval's, so they don't have to waste their time. I don't feel schools are qualified to dx anyone. The teachers can't even tell parents that they think their child is ADHD. They can only say---"Maybe you should go to the peditrician" or "check out some books at the library". Maybe this is just our school--I don't know.