Death in girl from anti-meds church | ADHD Information
IMac -- I think that you will see I NEVER respond (save for this one) to the rhetoric. However, I often see you in the midst of the drama -- along with several others. I don't begrudge you your fun, I just see that it serves the opposite purpose -- it only draws attention to those you seek to suppress..IMac38945.3352430556.IMac38945.3354398148bump
Remind yourself who these people are.
I understand what you are saying -- I didn't miss the point. However, they get responses EVERY time that they post. Of course they will continue..... I don't mind them b/c I ignore them.The scientologists are a wacky bunch all right.
They are a bogus religion based on the rantings of a third-class sci-fi writer L.Ron Hubbard. I've read his "books" - they are tripe as best and very amateurish.
The scientology base is as fake as L.Ron's sci-fi ever was. Aliens came to earth - fought other aliens and let loose nuclear armageddon on earth. All aliens died and their souls entered volcanos. Then they were released into cavemen. After that we supposedly reincarnate and carry the alien and the burdens of the past life with us. This is all caused by the evils of Xenu - their overlord. Snickering yet?
They use a fake instrument which requires the scientology recruit to hold onto two paddles. A guide works a panel with buttons and dials and asks the person to surrender all of their secrets. During this confession time (and 80,000 plus US dollars later) they give up their reincarnation trauma and eventually lose their alien hitchhiker.
During initiation they force the person to fast - drinking only shakes containing large doses of niacin. This niacin damages the organs and leaves the skin pockmarked and damaged and swollen. The fast brings on hallucinations and causes the person to feel indebted and connected to their guide. It's a common cult practice and is used to brainwash them into compliance. Look at Tom Cruise - is there no doubt that he's brainwashed?!?
Exploitation of people makes me very angry. The webpages lying to people who honestly want to help others makes me angry too. The anti-med sites are totally without merit or scientific backing but the people there keep slinging the crap their way.
And.... to present the other side of the argument. I am not a Scientologist and I am not against all medications. However, we HAVE chosen not to medicate our son (who has ADHD) and my husband has also made this choice for himself (also dx'd ADHD). We made these choices based on concerns we have about side effects of medication, including the fact that these would be meds they would be on for a significant amount of time. We are having great success pursuing alternatives to medication including many different supplements.
Every person who decides against meds is NOT a Scientologist. I personally know many who have had very negative experiences with medications -- one who recently had a stroke that the doctors are attributing to the use of Adderall. There CAN be some learning that takes place when we share experiences -- even negative ones. I understand that the path we have chosen does not work for everyone. I am not shocked nor upset when something we have done for our child does not work across the board, why would you be upset that medication does not work for all?
meg - you are missing the point.
Opposing viewpoints are welcome. Telling us we are killing kids is not.
The trolls make claims that are outright lies. They twist what little truth they have into something barely recognizable.
They post everywhere and immediately attack people who are new - trying to scare them from any help.
They now are stating that not only does Ritalin kill everyone, but ADHD doesn't exist.
That offends me - and anyone with a brain and eyes.
Debate is good. Fearmongering and lying is not.
And what about these other people beside Lisa??
Deaths in Scientology's Fort Harrison HotelFlag is the abbreviation of Flag Land Base, Scientology's presence in Clearwater. The first building they bought was the 272-room Fort Harrison hotel.
Lisa McPherson (36)
Room 174?
On December 5, 1995, Lisa McPherson died. Scientology had held her against her will for 17 days. During that time, she tried to leave, became violent, and refused to eat. At the time of her death, she had bruises and abrasions on her body, and she had lost over 30 pounds in just 17 days.
Heribert Pfaff (31)
Room 758
According to the records, Heribert P. died august 28, 1988, during the night from a heavy epileptic attack. He hit his head on the night table. The scientology doctor reports that he prescribed vitamins for his patient -dispite regular attacks- in stead of treating him with proper medication. Such medication was indeed not detected in his blood during the post-mortem examination.
Josephus Havenith (45)
Room 771
An autopsy report lists his death as "probable drowning" but notes that his head was not under water. He died in February 1980 at the Scientology Fort Harrison Hotel in a bathtub filled with water so hot it had burned his skin off.
Unknown
Boilerroom
1989, dead in the basement, next to the heating boilers. Carbon-monoxide poisoning . Ex-scientologists have alleged in affidavits and a declaration that the boiler room was used for Scientology's Rehabilitation Project Force (gulag).
.IMac38945.3348842593Why So Many Criminals in Scientology? http://www.raids.org/whycrmnl.htmMeg, obviously you are NOT a Scientologist, but you are not posting that "Ritalin kills" on different sites. There's a difference between you and those who spread scare stories, that I don't even believe, to try to "convert" people to their thinking. These groups don't even believe psychiatric/neurological disorders exist. You are nothing like they are. I'm not sure I'd medicate ADHD myself, BUT I respect those who do and certainly would never say it doesn't exist. This group is frightening. You are a concerned, loving mom. Big difference.
Know who these posters likely are and what they have done. They don't "believe" in psychiatry and here is an instance where there was an alleged death due to this group. I've been reading on Scientologists for years.
What does this have to do with ADHD? They don't believe in it, and villify all meds for this disorder.
: a release form for the Introspection Rundown. Parishioners seeking services at Flag -- the place Scientology advertises as the "Mecca of Technical Perfection" -- must sign a contract promising not to sue if they are harmed. And they are not given a copy to take home with them. A scanned copy of this new form is reproduced below; the HTML version is available here. Some choice quotes:
If circumstances should ever arise in which government, medical or psychiatric officials or personnel or family members or friends attempt to compel or coerce or commit me for psychiatric evaluation, treatment or hospitalization, I fully desire and expect that the Church or Scientologists will intercede on my behalf to oppose such efforts and/or extricate me from that predicament...I understand that the Introspection Rundown ... includes being isolated from ... family members, friends or others with whom I might normally interact.... The Case Supervisor will determine the time period in which I will remain isolated, according to the beliefs and practices of the Scientology religion. I further specifically acknowledge that the duration of any such isolation is uncertain, determined only by my spiritual condition, but that such duration will be completely at the discretion of the Case Supervisor.
I accept and assume all known and unknown risks of injury, loss, or damage resulting from my decision to participate in the Introspection Rundown and specifically absolve all persons and entities from all liabilities of any kind, without limitation, associated with my participation or their participation in my Introspection Rundown.
Tory Christman, who spent 30 years in Scientology before quitting in disgust, confirms that the first such waivers were instituted right after Lisa's death.
Rather than assure its members that it would never repeat the horrors of what happened to Lisa McPherson, what Scientology is saying in this release form is: "We were not wrong to hold Lisa against her will and deprive her of medical attention and leave her to die. We were never wrong. And to assure you that we weren't, we're going to do the same thing again...exactly the same way... possibly to YOU! Here: sign this. And please note that after signing this, you cannot hold us accountable or sue us if we do decide to do this to you." Clearly, Scientology's private position is that their mistake wasn't in killing Lisa McPherson; it was in not having a signed release form saying it was okay to do so. This contrasts with the proposal Scientology leader David Miscavige tried to negotiate with the Florida State Attorney, Bernie McCabe, under which Scientology would take steps to ensure that its members receive appropriate medical treatment in the future if McCabe dropped the criminal charges in the McPherson case. McCabe's scathing rejection of this offer questioned why Scientology has not already taken these steps. To make it perfectly clear: Scientology is not against professional medical care, provided that the care is not of a psychiatric nature. In fact, its written policies mandate that a person seek medical care from licensed professionals. But with this form, Scientology is saying it has the right to kidnap and hold a mentally disturbed member at any time, because, in the words of one ex-member, "If THEY say you're crazy, then you are, and you have already agreed that they can kidnap you and hold you against your will if they deem you to be crazy." And although Scientology claims its treatment is purely spiritual, its staff have no qualms about dressing up in nurses uniforms (pic1, pic2, pic3) to lure the public into taking a "stress test" on the E-meter or purchasing copies of Dianetics. (Photos taken at the Florida Home Show at the Tampa Convention Center, Labor Day Weekend, 2003.) The main use for this release form may be for bullying doctors into relinquishing custody of patients who have been taken in for psychiatric evaluation, and are perhaps facing involuntary committment, just as Scientology bullied the staff at Morton Plant Hospital where Lisa was taken and coerced them into releasing her into their custody, despite the report from paramedics of her bizarre behavior and request for assistance. This release form may not be legally enforceable, because if it were, any mentally ill person could sign a similar contract and evade involuntary commitment under the Baker Act. The State of Florida has an interest in preventing such contracts from being considered. Even more chilling is the section at the bottom of the form where an adult or guardian can sign on behalf of a child. Members of various Christian sects who prevented their children from receiving medical care on "religious" grounds have been prosecuted for child abuse. A Scientologist who denied their child access to necessary mental health treatment should run a similar risk of prosecution. Among the evidence obtained during discovery in the McPherson case is a collection of Lisa's PC (preclear) folders, which detailed her treatment at the hands of Scientology. The church vehemently objected to producing these documents, but eventually was forced to disclose them, although many crucial folders are still missing. Scientology claims it can't find them. In order to frustrate similar discovery actions in the future, Scientology has issued another new release form, ostensibly concerned with preserving the confidentiality of parishioner files. Scientology's position is that not only does it have a religious right to abuse its members, but it also has the right to withhold the written evidence of that abuse, even if the member has been killed as a direct result of Scientology's actions. Thus, Scientology tries to perfect its ability to both commit and cover up future crimes. Lisa McPherson was not the first Scientologist to suffer false imprisonment and isolation as a result of a mental breakdown. Other cases include Gitte Mogensen (1996), Heidi Degro (1993), Cat Morrow (1980s), Marianne Coenan (1989), David Voorhies (1983), and a German national held at Scientology's U.K. headquarters in East Grinstead (1993). Investigation of future instances of abuse may be frustrated by the victims having signed these release forms. Scientology continues to make claims that it can cure mental illness. This 2001 promotional piece says: "A Flag Ship Class XII [auditor] could turn a severe mental case from raving lunacy to not only sane but bright and normal in about 8 or 9 hours..." Here is the second page, containing the date and copyright info. Further Reading: WhyAreTheyDead.net Room 174: the death of Lisa McPherson LisaMcPherson.com Documents concerning the wrongful death suit LisaFiles.com Files from the Clearwater Police Department criminal investigation LisaTrust.bogie.nl Documents concerning the criminal case Clearwater Police CD-ROM Collection of evidence .IMac38945.3357407407bump[QUOTE=MegMaguire]I understand what you are saying -- I didn't miss the point. However, they get responses EVERY time that they post. Of course they will continue..... I don't mind them b/c I ignore them.[/QUOTE]
Meg, I think would feel a little different if someone came on here posting all over saying Alternatives is Quack medicine and you are killing your kids using it, etc. And remember just recently a member put down homeopathy and this upset many alternatives folks. I was very upset as well.
But I understand your point, if we did ignore them they would go away but when they fill this whole forum thread after thread after thread we have to do something since the administration does nothing. I tried other things like bumping up previous topics but that is a waste of my time because another member posts on the Trolls thread and there it is on the top again.
And Imac, I think Meg said "Save this one" and you know that is true about her. She never posts on Trolls threads. I have the utmost respect for Meg.
[QUOTE=IMac] [QUOTE=Auntie]And Imac, I think Meg said "Save this one" and you know that is true about her. She never posts on Trolls threads. I have the utmost respect for Meg.[/QUOTE]
It's hard to remember everything we post, especially if we have ADHD.
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Well if you aren't sure then maybe zip the lip. 
