neuro-psyche | ADHD Information

Then, I want to hear what the neuropsychologist says because if he cannot maintain and hold eye contact, then it sounds like Asperger's. ADHD kids can be over the top socially, but eye contact is not something they have problems with. O.K. I've got a question. Does he have a good sense of humor? Yes, and he is the class clown. Humor brings him a lot of enjoyment.

I thought about Asberger's but the language-speech teacher emphasized that he recognizes subtle differences in speech tone, pitch, and accent that alter the meaning of others’ speech. She said he was more advanced than most children his age on this test.

Perhaps I have discovered a new diagnosis!!

He's capable of maintaining eye contact if reminded....

I came back to autism because of what I would call the weird physical contact that is completely out of sync with the environment. Like leaning against kids while sitting on the floor, stroking hair, running and jumping on a big kids back in the play yard for a piggy back ride, touching his foot against another kids foot under the table while they are doing math, sitting right next to the teacher at circle time and touching her feet. When I see this stuff I think to myself "What in the world is he doing? Get with the program!" Sometimes I ask him why he thought it was ok to lean against the kid next to him when he was sitting on the floor. He has no idea why.

I went to the autism board but I cannot relate. He doesn't do repetitive movements, rock, run in circles, or clap. He has no motor skill issues. Spelling comes easily to him. He has nice handwriting. He understands the emotions of others. He has a fabulous imagination and draws pictures that have stories behind them. He is very creative. And the writing issue discussed by the doctor does not exist at present, it is anticipated to develop in the future. He has friends. They like him. He does make noises, pretending to be animals. And he has these socially clueless physical contact issues. The autism board is too extreme. I looked for a description of high-functioning autism long ago and didn't come up with anything.

.IMac38944.8847569444

NoTellin,

How are his oral social skills? Does he know to take turns when having a conversation? Does he interrupt and talk over people? Does he ramble on about stuff that no one is interested in? Is he a chatterbox and just won't be quiet?

He's very verbal with a strong vocabulary. He is getting better at not interrupting, but he has this tendency, especially when excited (I've been working on this). He likes to talk quite a bit, definately above average. I don't think he's quite in the chatterbox category. Occasionally he'll talk about stuff that no one is interested in and rambles a bit but the frequency level is pretty low.

He sounds like a pretty typical ADHD kid to me. If his oral skills had been extreme, as well, I was going to suggest you look at pragmatic language disorder and semantic-pragmatic language disorder, but what you are describing doesn't sound too over the top. The nonverbal stuff could be impulsivity. Does he have good eye contact, both one-on-one and in groups?No, his eye contact is terrible! But I must confess that I may contribute to this. After work I pick up the kids and I've got limited time to tranport to activities, cook dinner, deal with homework, baths, and so forth. So when the kids are talking to me, and they do this a lot, I don't have time to go over and give them eye contact. I may be washing the vegetables at the sink with my back to them conversing. I'll walk around the kitchen, opening cupboards and so forth, talking to them but not looking at them. His eye contact is definately lousy.

When you say to keep clear documentation of his difficulties, do you mean that if an academic challenge is present for a time period and is not resolved, I should send a letter to the teacher and copy the confidential file?

Perhaps I will ask the doctor specifically about high-functioning autism. During our conversation I did not try to differentiate between spectrums, but she did say that it was not autism. She mentioned specific reasons why she thought this was not the case.

I think I'm finding this shocking because I write for a living and majored in English, and my brother also writes for a living. As kids we wrote stories for fun, and the doctor is telling me that my son will have great difficulties writing stories. This is a skill that comes easily in my family. Apparently I will have to level the finger of blame at my husband's genes! Just kidding, of course.

A neuropsych who doesn't like labels? It's the Mel Levine crowd, I guess. I love Mel Levine, but actually putting a name on something can make it a lot less confusing, IMHO.

To answer some of your questions, yes, processing speed and attention are directly related. Children with AD/HD characteristically have slow processing speed. Slow processing speed is also related to many LD's. A lack of automaticity means that the child takes longer to learn a concept and has a more difficult time recalling it from memory and using it when needed. A lack of automaticity is very, very common in LD's, particularly dyslexia and other reading disorders. (This is the reason why dyslexic programs are "multi-sensory," to present the information through all the senses, making it more likely to enter long-term memory and to be easily recalled. Most children who have problems with automaticity will benefit from multi-sensory programs.)

Basically, it sounds to me like the neuropsychologist is saying that he has an undiagnosed LD. Sometimes with young children, they are very hard to diagnose. This may be what she means when she says he will have more difficulty as school progresses--his LD will become more apparent. I bet ya, she's going to discuss an "academic weakness," and I would pay really close attention to this .

I am interested in the body/space orientation stuff. Ask a lot of questions. Is she saying he is uncoordinated or does not have a sense of direction or what? Is it spatial, visual, motor? Different body/space orientation difficulties are related to particular disorders, so it's very helpful to know exactly what she is talking about since she's not into, uh, "labels" .

I toast your bravery, Notellin!!! I know how hard it has been to take your child for an evaluation, and YOU DID IT!!! Are you feeling O.K. about everything, or are you nervous?

[QUOTE=NoTellin]Thanks poodledoodles. I like the 3.85 GPA. I wasn't feeling very positive about his high school prospects. What is VMI?[/QUOTE]

VMI, visual motor integration. It affects what his brain/eyes see and the hands do together. He also takes in what he hears better than see's, and needs a multi sensory approach to learning. Yes, the down fall to the slow processing is speed, not how bright the child is. Unfortunately you're looking at a child that is not able to put out as much work as a child with a normal processing speed. My son can't keep up with the amount of work required in a reg. school setting. I pulled him from elementary school in the 6th grade(was even before I knew about the processing speed) and put him in Independent study, because the school would not help us. He needs more one on one attention with instruction, and to be allotted more time to complete tasks. My sons fine motor skills are poor too, which is also slowing his written out put, though now he mainly uses the computer to type everything. My son gets no help from the school because of his grades being soo good. I have helped him through school, with volunteering in the classroom, home work, reading text books for him, hand writing, etc. What ever I could do. It's unfortunate, but the intelligent child with other deficits get little help from schools. Very sad.

poodledoodles38869.6524421296

The body/space orientation stuff is spatial. It pertains to his movements, like falling out of his chair or leaning over and touching the floor from his chair, and it pertains to physical interactions, like touching people in ways that are not socially acceptable. Like stroking another child's hair, or sitting behind them on the floor and leaning the top of his head on someone's back. I said "you mean sensory integration disorder" and she said she doesn't like to use that term and that OTs do, and that he has an integration issue of some sort. She did say that the slow processing is usually associated with reading or comprehension issues but that he doesn't have any, or any memory issues. I got the impression that she anticipates weakness in this area, specifically when he is required to write stories and bring concepts together in 2nd grade.

I am a little stunned because this seems more complicated than I anticipated, and definately interjects a long-term academic struggle which I also did not anticipate because he has not displayed academic problems so far. The latter isn't sitting well with me quite frankly. It has pervasive ramifications on both of us.

What you are describing is not sensory integration disorder. It is difficulties with nonverbal communication. Difficulties with nonverbal communication can be caused by many things, but from what you have discussed with your son, the most likely reasons are the impulsivity of ADHD or by an inability to understand the norms of socially appropriate communication as a result of autism.

As far as difficulties writing, this is very common with ADHD kids. Peter Wright says that when a parent says, "My child is ADHD and does not have any LD's," he always asks, "How's your kid's writing?" Unfortunately, writing disabilities are hard to dx in young kids, and many parents are unable to get their kids IEP's and/or 504's for writing disabilities until at least 6th grade, if not later. Writing is developmental, and it is common for kids to have difficulties with writing for many years; consequently, schools do not want to label children too early. I can understand this, but, as a parent who has a child with an IEP for a Disorder of Written Expression, be cautious! These kids are often labeled "lazy," "defiant," "easily distracted," and "careless," when they are young. You need to keep clear documentation of his difficulties and fight incorrect behavioral labels, especially if he is ADHD.

lillian38869.7239814815

Hey, at least you can help him with the writing! I know what you mean, though. I adopted my son, but I still find it hard to believe I have a child who has dyslexia and hates reading, when I have two or three books going at the same time. As Dylan would say, "Blame it on a simple twist of fate."

I noticed you went back to autism in your post. Do you think this is what it is? Are you suprised the neuro doesn't? Autistic kids can really, really struggle with writing, as well.

As far as documentation, keep copies of his writing samples from this point on. Any writing samples--homework, classwork, spelling tests--that show his struggling with writing, you want to keep in a safe place and file away. Make sure he dates them, too, so you can prove they are from the year you say they are.

Hang in there!

Even without the label of HFA/Aspergers, he displays the symptoms of it, from what I've seen in autistic (bright ones) kids. My son can't use a pencil yet, and we're teaching him to keyboard (he's 13). He is too literal/concrete to have an imagination and write stories. I write too, so I feel your pain. On the other hand, my daughter, who has processing problems, but not SID or ADHD symptoms, is very creative and I can see a big difference in the two kids. She is also appropriately social whereas my son is pretty socially clueless. You may want to take a look at this board and see if you can relate to the parents of these HFA kids. Interventions for the symptoms described are important, no matter what the Neuro calls it. Interventions really help. Lots of Aspie parents here and HFA who, even if your son doesn't have it, have similiar issues.

www.autism-pdd.net/forum/default.asp

NoTellin,

I just had to agree with you that bright children with some difficulties get very little help at school. My son was dxed "adhd-provisional" because he's very bright. I asked what the "provisional" meant and was told that it could be he's just bored at school. Hmmm. This after a battery of tests and several visits. So on the advice of his psych, he was bumped up two grades in reading. HOWEVER, he still writes on the low end of his grade level. This discrepancy was no problem for the substitute teacher he had for most of the year (the regular teacher was out after surgery), who was great about sending writing work home or assigning an older helper, but we got a call for a conference shortly after the normal teacher got back. He just couldn't understand why my son was in his class, even though he was making A's!!!!, because he wasn't writing at the same level as the others. So instead of making writing adaptations in a reading class, he insisted that my son go back to his own grade's reading class, which was hundreds of lexiles below what my son normally reads. This, combined with my son's adhd, really creates an atmosphere where it's hard for him to be engaged and not causing trouble.

There are concessions aplenty for very low-achieving students, but few and far between for those who excell in an area, but might need help in others.

At this point I would like to interject a thought that has plagued me since my young nephew started school and his teachers were adamant that something wasn't right with him. He's going into sixth grade, has some anxiety but tests normally on all the testing they've done, and gets C+/B grades. Here's my thought: Do all children who don't behave like all other children necessarily HAVE to have a diagnosis? Can't they just be expressing their personalities? My nephew's fifth grade tteacher, a very mellow guy, told my sister," Maybe we should just let him be for a while? No more tests, no special routines. Let's let him just be himself and see how that goes." It went just fine. Granted, he didn't make A's, but there's a reason for a grading scale: not all children will make A's. So, just because he doesn't fit into a mold for a "normal child", does there actually need to be a problem?

BPQW,

Not at all. That's why some professionals are doing what this neuropsych is doing and moving away from "labels." I have mixed feelings about this.

On the one hand, my stepsister has never had her son officially dxed with Asperger's. She says things like, "He cannot read body language," "He is acutely shy," "He has sensory issues," etc. She knows he has Asperger's, and the psychologist who tested her son years ago wanted to label him. My stepsister said no because she didn't see the purpose. She has him in private school, and he's so obviously Aspie that no one even asks. They work with his differences, and he does very well. However, he was kicked out of one private school, and he was refused entrance into two others, even though he is highly gifted and performs years above his academic level in every subject but writing. Why was he kicked out of the other school and not allowed entrance into two others? Because of his lack of social skills, which includes occassional acts of aggression in particular environments. Why does he have these difficulties socially? Asperger's. Still, having the official label would not have changed anything--he still would have been kicked out of the school, and he still would have been denied entrance into the two others, so I definitely see my stepsister's point.

On the other hand, my son is dyslexic. I strongly suspected he was for years, before I had him officially dxed. I was in an odd situation because he was a foster child, and SPED law is very clear that a child cannot be labeled LD, if the possiblity for the child's difficulties can be attributed to a lack of educational opportunity or socio-economic disadvantage. Considering that my son had only gone to school sporadically and had "parents," O.K., sperm and egg doners, who had little education and no interest in promoting his education, I was going to have a hard time labeling my child with a learning disability. I remediated his weaknesses through private tutoring and private schooling, yet he still "ran into a wall" academically. I decided to put him back into public school, where he would be protected by SPED law and had him officially labeled dyslexic. This has been the best year he has ever had academically, and I now question my decision not to fight and have him labeled years ago. If I had done so, maybe I wouldn't have heard all the crap about attention and "if he would only try a little harder" that I heard. When a teacher said to me, "He could read, if he didn't play with his feet," I would have been able to say, "He could read, if he didn't have dyslexia, and he's playing with his feet because he cannot read. What else is he suppose to do?" Also, now that my son is officially labeled, I have done loads of research on dyslexia, and I see my son on every page I read. I now understand my son on a much deeper level. It's amazing HOW dyslexic he is! Does he fit the profile perfectly? No. But he could be a poster boy for the disorder, nonetheless. Finally, knowing my son has dyslexia is extraordinarily important in remediating his academic issues because the remediation one must use with dyslexics is very specific. General remediation will not work in the long run.

So, yeah, I think there are both good and bad things about labeling.

lillian38870.5404398148

I got the neuro-psyche report, and I'm rather disappointed considering that it cost me 00. The school psyche says his processing speed is 45-50% and this sounded on target to me. The doctor says 16%, and all of her conclusions seems to rest on this. His teacher basically introduces topics, and I teach them, so I'm fairly sure that his processing speed is not that low. (Sometimes I am actually relieved at the speed that he learns certain things.) I have minimal patience, so I know that a processing speed of 16% would drive me mad. Also, I believe that emotions can negatively impact (my) processing speed-- especially anxiety or stress. Now, unfortunately just before the testing I told him to work hard and do his very best. Ok, so this doctor says that she thinks the slow processing speed is causing the attention issues, and that if modifications are made, the ADHD dx may no longer be relevant. She does give an ADHD dx, however. The attention difficulties are attributed to slowed information processing. She says that he has an executive control processing deficiency, which impacts self-regulation, self-monitoring, problem solving, reasoning, planning, and learning from consequences of behavior. She also says that he is impaired in putting cognitive processes on "automatic" even when he had time to practice. This has not been my experience at all. I have had great luck with classroom results after practicing at home. Immediate results.

So basically, I think this doctor does not get my son, and I don't feel any closer to understanding what is happening, or what his dx actually is. Her recommendations for classroom/home modifications are good, but, amazingly, they are extremely similar to the classroom recommendations that I suggested at the first IEP meeting (which everyone ignored, I might add). Anyone who is researches diligently could come up with most of the recommendations in her report. I guess the one good thing is that I wanted an OT eval and they balked, and this doctor is recommending one. So apparently my suggestion will now become valid. Also, she suggested social skills classes which I have considered, but will now pursue more seriously.

I'm pretty frustrated. I don't have another 3 grand to give it another try. I actually feel like I have a better grasp on the situation that this doctor. I don't mean to discourage any newbies here, I think my situation with the eval is not the norm...

O.K. Processing speed...

Processing speed is measured in different ways on different tests, so it's important to look at the tests given to your son when you talk about the differences in processing speed found at the school and at the doctor's. Was he given the same cognitive test? Or was he given the WJIII Test of Cognitive Ability one place and the WISC-IV at the other place?

On the WJIII, processing speed is measured in two ways--visual matching and decision speed. For visual matching, the student has three minutes to circle two identical numbers in a row of six numbers as quickly as possible. In decision speed, the student again has three minutes to as quickly as possible find two pictures in each row that are the most similar conceptually.

On the WISC-IV, processing speed is measured in two ways, also--coding and symbol search. In coding, the kid uses a key to copy geometric symbols paired with shapes or symbols and receives extra points for speed. In symbol search, the kid has to scan a group of symbols to match a symbol and circle the correct one.

So, as you can tell, both the WJIII and the WISC-IV measure processing speed through the visual channels. The tests are also heavily dependent on a child's ability to produce an answer quickly with a paper and pencil. If you have a child who has any kind of visual integration problem or any kind of writing problem or a motor/coordination problem, you can expect the child to have low processing speed scores. It doesn't mean that the child is slow to catch onto concepts. It means that the child is slow to produce what's in his head. As Mel Levine would say, it's "output failure."

A child can have very high oral comprehension skills and high auditory processing skills and still have very low processing speed. My son is like this. My son scores well into the 90th percentile in both oral comprehension and auditory processing (auditory processing came up dramatically, 40 points, after a year of Orton-Gillingham tutoring for dyslexics and two years of private school remediation that emphasized blending and decoding), but his "processing speed" scores are those of a squashed ant. When a child is like this, the child appears very quick intellectually. My son doesn't sit and stare at you and go, "Duh," when you present concepts to him. All the teachers say that my son catches on very quickly in the classroom and is highly enthusiastic when producing answers orally. His problem is with output, producing with pen and paper. If your son received the WJIII Test of Cognitive Ability, it might be interesting for you to compare his processing speed score with his auditory processing speed score; if your son received the WJIII Test of Academic Achievement, it might be interesting for you to compare your son's processing speed with his oral comprehension scores.

Hope this helps.

This is quite helpful.

The school did WJ-III. The doctor did WISC-IV.

When you say that it's an output problem and not the ability to catch onto concepts, this makes much more sense. He does appear to be quick intellectually, but I have had problems getting him to put it on paper, and I have not spent much time teaching this.

The doctor said he has difficulty tracking auditory infomation, and he has superior non-verbal reasoning skills.

The WJ-III Test of Cognitive Abilities shows a processing speed of 90 (barely average) and an auditory working memory of 104 (average).

The WCJ-III Test of Achievement shows verbal comprehension 112 (average) and processing speed 90 (average). On both tests the working memory was average also, and the WISC-IV shows it in the 47%.

Do I have a descepancy between the WISC-IV (processing speed index 16%) and the WJ-III?

So, the teacher introduces the subject and I teach it because he pays no attention in class. I have spent very little time on writing sentences or stories, or getting concepts down on paper. Is the assumption behind these tests that the child has been taught certain subjects? I noticed that he scored quite high on the things that I've emphasized--decoding words, reading individual words, and spelling (he's a grade above in these). I almost feel like these tests are reflecting my teaching, and not my son's abilities, and I have not covered the various subjects in the right depth.

NoTellin38879.4402662037bump[QUOTE=NoTellin]

This is quite helpful.

The school did WJ-III. The doctor did WISC-IV.

The doctor said he has difficulty tracking auditory infomation, and he has superior non-verbal reasoning skills.

Superior non-verbal reasoning skills are very important. What are his PRI scores--Block Design, Matrix Reasoning, and Pictures--on the WISC-IV? Is there much of a discrepancy between his overall VCI score and his overall PRI score? BTW, common belief is that a high PRI in contrast to a lower VCI is not indicative of autism--with autism, the common belief is that it is the opposite.

The WJ-III Test of Cognitive Abilities shows a processing speed of 90 (barely average) and an auditory working memory of 104 (average).

Do you mean auditory processing speed?

The WCJ-III Test of Achievement shows verbal comprehension 112 (average) and processing speed 90 (average). On both tests the working memory was average also, and the WISC-IV shows it in the 47%.

Do I have a descepancy between the WISC-IV (processing speed index 16%) and the WJ-III?

Not much of one. 16% is equivalent to a standard score of 85.

So, the teacher introduces the subject and I teach it because he pays no attention in class.

This is curious. What is he doing, instead of "paying attention"? Does he not pay attention to anything? Does he have at least one subject that captures his interest and attention?

I have spent very little time on writing sentences or stories, or getting concepts down on paper. Is the assumption behind these tests that the child has been taught certain subjects? I noticed that he scored quite high on the things that I've emphasized--decoding words, reading individual words, and spelling (he's a grade above in these). I almost feel like these tests are reflecting my teaching, and not my son's abilities, and I have not covered the various subjects in the right depth.

There is no question that "cognitive" tests test more than "innate" intellect. Some researchers question whether or not there really is "innate" intelligence.

[/QUOTE]

Block design 15, Matrix reasoning 14, Picture concepts 13, VCI 106, PRI 125. Yes there is a descrepancy between VCI and PRI. VCI is 66% and PRI is 95%.

Both tests refer to auditory working memory, nothing on auditory processing speed.

Instead of paying attention he wanders around class, talks to neighbors (facing desks), plays with his pencil, makes noises. He is said to disrupt the learning of others. The doctor said he needs a high degree of one-on-one support in the classroom. He is really starting to sound like homeschool material to me, except he does loves the social aspect of school. He pays attention during reading. Art definatley captures his attention, and the school goes on about his artistic abilities. The doctor said his visuo-spatial testing was consistent with this.

So his WISC-IV scores were: VCI 106, PRI 125, WMI 99, and PSI 85? Is this correct? If so, there's a learning issue. You have a forty point spread between subtest clusters, and a twenty point spread between VCI and PRI. This IQ spread is the profile of a child with a language-based learning disability. But his achievement test scores did not indicate so? You should know that a 125 PRI on the WISC-IV is high. I would love to see your son given a nonverbal intelligence test, like the UNIT. He may be gifted but has some type of language disability interfering with his ability to "appear" so.

Have you ever checked out Central Auditory Processing Disorder?

Those numbers are right. The achievement tests show reading, writing, written expression, adn comprehension skills all above average. The doctor's testing showed problems with verbal fluency and rate. The school speech/language tester said he doesn't have CAPD, but the list of symptoms on the websites fit except the spelling. He's pretty quick at that. Perhaps I should have a private CAPD eval.

Check these sites out:

http://www.tsbvi.edu/Outreach/seehear/spring00/centralaudito ry.htm

http://www.nidcd.nih.gov/health/voice/auditory.asp

I know that spelling difficulties are a symptom, but you say you have helped your son a lot with this, so...

My son has similar issues. He is in the 1% for processing, and also has AD/HD with attention problems. He has VMI issues also. This causes a slow output of work, and sloppy hand writing, but does not effect the quality of work. He is a Senior now with a 3.85 GPA. He was also tested by an OT and given a sensory diet to work on at home to help with his handwriting. We will start on this in a week or 2. No I don't have the report yet. Apparently she does not like labels. She specifically said it was not autism or asbergers (I asked). Basically she said slow mental processing, integration issues, lack of automaticity, and an attention disorder (inattention and impulse, but not so much hyperactivity). She will be recommending an occupational therapist for an evaluation and therapy to address his awareness of his body in space. Sounds like ADHD with SID? The automaticity thing is throwing me off. Never heard of it.Thanks poodledoodles. I like the 3.85 GPA. I wasn't feeling very positive about his high school prospects. What is VMI?Sounds very similiar to autism. At any rate, glad you know what deficits you're dealing with. My daughter has processing issues and I thought maybe it was that, but it sounds different. Good luck :)

Joemom,

I've never heard of eye contact in social situations being related to tracking, except when a child has "lazy eye" and literally cannot make good eye contact.

Poor eye contact IS a big red flag for Aspergers, but a great sense of humor and class clown isn't unless he just blurts stuff out. If he's very witty that's not an Asperger's trait. However, all Aspies are different. Some marginal Aspies don't get diagnosed until they're adults having problems with work and friendships. It's very hard to tell. My friend with the Aspie son (160 IQ) can tell ya all about it. He can't hold a job. There was no indication he'd be this non-functional until he hit adulthood. Of course he had no Aspie dx. thus no Aspie type help. Had plenty of therapy and meds. please note that bad eye contact can also be a result of poor tracking skills....my son is terrible at this...he has difficulty tracking with his eyes a moving object such as a stick with a sticker on the end....this is a skill that needs to be practicedI think our tracking issues are more related to ADHD becaues he loses attention...this was something that the OT was working on...I wonder if they had him track something real interesting if he would have as much trouble...I dunnoWho evaluates tracking? The OT?

My neuro-psyche is going to recommend an OT eval and therapy to increase awareness of self-regulation. Can you give me a better idea of what tracking is? You mean following an object with the eye?

And what is Aspie type help exactly?

Yes, tracking is the ability to follow something with your eyes. There are many reasons why children have difficulty with tracking. The OT was the person who evaluated ds tracking...she also did something with switching from near to far visiion ( cant remember what this is called)....I think that there are some eye doctors that work with this( eye training) as a treatment for ADHD ( not sure how effective it is) .Do you mean (ok, hope I don't butcher the word) convergent vision where the eyes don't track at the same time? My son has this and he also has poor eye contact, but he's on the autism spectrum...he goes once a month because our closest eye doctor for that is two hours away. No she never used that word it was more like Scada ( now I am butchering the word)...I will look into my paper work and see if I have it written down...the eyes are working together but have trouble switching from near to far....we also found out that he is Farsighted and has trouble with close work ( I fight with him to wear his glasses...it is a struggle).I talked to the neuro-psyche. She found that my son's main problems are slow processing speed and lack of automaticity, plus an attention disorder. It wasn't clear whether the slow processing speed was causing the attention disorder or vice versa. She anticipates academic problems in the future due to the lack of automaticity. This refers to knowing how to do something so well that you don't have to think about it. I don't have the report yet. Has anyone recieved a similar finding?What did he call it? Do you have the report?Without a diagnosis, there are no aggressive interventions to help the kids. I'm not sure this kid has Aspergers--has some traits---doesn't have some traits. Some people are marginal. I think most "odd duck" people do have some things that are wrong with them and often they can be impeded from having a happy life if they don't understand what the problem is, especially if they have trouble functioning independently as adults. And if there is no help for non-labeled adults, they could end up homeless or in jail. JMHO but I prefer the label. On the other hand, if the child is as functional as other kids, but just different, I don't think it matters. I don't think that's the usual case with "odd ducks" though. I think most of the time they really struggle.