Is this normal?? | ADHD Information

Sounds like the parents need to act like adults, put their differences behind them, and communicate for the sake of the child.  Is Dad interested in this, or just you?crazymama -- thanks for your reply -- yes, Dad is very interested in this -- he is fortunately not a deadbeat dad or anything like that -- in fact, that's why they were in court in May was to try and stop her cutting in and denying visitation, and stuff like that -- unfortunately when in 2 different states 12 hours apart, it's hard to enforce anything.  I always end up explaining why me, an aunt, is so involved -- his dad died (my brother) when he was 6 and then his mom when he was 16 -- so we are very close, and I think I fill in where they are absent.  He's not the type to be on a "forum" asking questions, but I am, so possibly I come off as being more concerned than he is -- that is not the case.  His waking hours are mostly spent working to pay child support, plus saving $$ for the few trips he can make between holidays to get motel, eats and visit with them, and with the price of gas, it's not easy.  There are 3 children of this marriage -- we had already been talking about seeking a child psychologist or something in that area before this summer visitation hit, due to the fact that these children cry and beg not to go home and the crying has gotten worse instead of better after 3 years.  But, then again, they are strictly on "vacation" when with Dad and that's a different situation.  May 2005 Mom ran red light with 2 of the children in back seat, no seat belts and this child had 70 stitches to his face -- Dad was notified  3-1/2 weeks later by phone call from child -- this is the situation we deal with.  She now is suing other driver, even tho she ran red light for 1 mil per child if her family is correct.   So, this is why I wondered if while diagnosing adhd, would a child psychologist also pick up on problems in other areas of child's life, if there are any??  Thanks again for your reply.Hello - I am aunt to 9 year old who 2 months ago was diagnosed with adhd.  He is on Adderall PLUS Zoloft.  This info was dropped in Dad's lap right before he was to pick up children for summer visitation.  Obviously this is a divorce where there is no communication whatsoever.  Dad went to child's 4th grade graduation ceremony where teacher spoke a bit about each child.  This child's teacher stated that "he is an exemplary student who always has time and is willing to help other students with their school work".  His grade average was 3.9 out of 4.0 for year - all A's except 2 B's which occurred in 2nd and 3rd grade period.  He was 2nd in class as far as grade average.  He also plays baseball and Dad went to that ceremony also, and child appears to have many friends.  Dad & Mom are in 2 different states.  1 Month before Dad picked up child, they were in court (over the children and custody issues) - and Mom, under oath was questioned about kids -- she stated that they were all straight A students, no problems, happy, play baseball, etc.  At that time, it appears from health insurance records, this child had already seen doc 3 times and was diagnosed and actually taking the adderall/Zoloft at time she was in court.  The only thing I knew to do about the questions/concerns about all this was to find a child psychologist in Dad's area for second opinion.  Naturally it is confusing.  Any advice/help you can give will be sooo greatly appreciated.  Is it possible to have a "slight" form of adhd and need medicine??  When questioned about the diagnosis the child answers with "Mom said I was depressed" -- Mom said I wasn't concentrating, etc."  Oh, we asked to have the teacher phone Dad to discuss any symptoms/changes she saw in this child in class -- well, teacher has not called -- according to principal's secretary, since school is now out for summer, it is strictly up to teacher whether she calls or not.  Appt. with Child psycologist is July 5th for consultation - testing the following week.  No teacher comments were on the report card.  Will child psychologist automatically pick up on things if there are other problems going on in this child's life??  Any help/advice you can give would be a blessing - we are sooo confused at this point.  Thank you!!Since the child is on Zoloft, an SSRI prescribed for depression, and Adderall, a stimulant prescribed for ADHD that can BTW make kids moody and aggressive, I'd seriously skip the psychologist and have the child evaluated by a board-certified child psychiatrist (an MD who can prescribe meds).  A psychologist honestly has no insight into what these meds can and can't do.  Furthermore -- and I know I'm biased here because we've had lots of bad luck with psychologists -- psychologists tend to blame everything on behavior rather than looking for an underlying neurobiological cause.  I'd also ask the psychiatrist for a referral to a neuropsychologist, who can do extensive testing to assess for many childhood disorders, including but not limited to ADHD.  These two professionals are who many of us on the board have found the most diagnostic success with.  Sounds like a complicated situation.  Good luck. I wanted to add agreement with smallmom's post. All of it.Same experiences. Psycologists aren't very good at diagnosing. SmallMom - thank you soooo very much -- wish I'd found this forum before we made the psychologist appt - when I looked up the doc who diagnosed, I saw where his license said "general pediatrics" - that made me squirm a bit, but since we are totally new to this situation, really didn't know what to think.  Okay - I'll search for psychiatrist in his area - I was teetering between the 2 types of docs and just my luck - should have chosen the "other"!ha  Dad's doc said to grab the first appt. we could get as these types of docs are sooo booked up considering the limited time Dad has them.  He only has the children 3 more weeks, so we'll probably be really lucky to get into a psychiatrist in time, but I will certainly beg for an appt.  As to any side effects, Dad has taken him off the meds (after talking to his own doc as to whether it would cause problems)  with no side effects while stopping the meds - the child had just started his 2nd prescription of both.  As to side effects while on the meds, prior to getting them he had noticed on the phone calls, the child sounded really tired, but not knowing about the meds, didn't know what the reason was.  Plus in May (after court day) he was allowed to spend a day with the children and this child acted really tired, but not knowing about the meds (Mom told him not to tell Dad), didn't know what the problem was. After getting the child, he also noticed the child hardly ate, and that was a worry as these children are very slim (mom/step-dad openly/publicly vow to not have fat children).  Off the meds, his appetite is much improved.  Okay, I'm rambling - thank you once again for your advice, and we will certainly go the direction of a psychiatrist so we can have peace of mind with any diagnosis that comes our way.  Thanks again for your help.

MomWI - thanks for your input!!  I cannot even begin to imagine what all of you have been thru in order to find the right help, nor can I imagine how "desperate" one could possibly feel while searching for the right doctor.  What little I've been thru is more than enough for me!ha  I have read threads where "teachers" are a problem with some parents, and fortunately, we don't 'think' there's a problem there, because in March the Dad talked with the school on a trip where he went and ate lunch with the children -- they were doing just fine - so we are lucky in that area, so far. And after I read about so many other things that can mimic adhd, it really gets confusing.  I do hope all of you know how much help you give to others, by being able to read what others are going thru plus being able to get advice.  I research this stuff, then call Dad and really confuse him about things and by the time we hash it all over, we are both in need of counseling!ha Thanks again for your input!!

Not sure you wanted this much advice, but...

The tiredness and appetite issues are really very common during the first month of medication. Many of our children here go through this. Unfortunately since he has been taken off his meds, when he starts them back up again, he will again have to go through the initial adjustment period.

I caution dad to be careful. I am assuming that you are doing all of this without moms knowledge, and since dad, I'm assuming, is not the one with primary custody, this could really hurt him as far as visitations go. If mom decides to push things and prove that dad has taken child off of much needed meds, it's not going to look good. I think in addition to getting the right doctor, I would make sure dad seeks legal advice through this process.

Sorry to be blunt, but I'm honestly worried about dad taking this child in for an evaluation when the child doesn't live with dad, meaning, dad likely doesn't have all the facts. Most especially, since there is no communication between mom and dad. Hanging out with dad for a few fun weeks of vacation is just not the same as the day to day things that go on through school, through homework, etc. All the things that mom may see, that might not be as evident to dad during a few weeks vacation. I'm just not sure how clear of a picture dad has, to be the appropriate person to give background information to the person doing the evaluation.

There is obviously bad blood between mom and dad, and I just hope that this isn't a "I'm right, you're wrong, do it my way-no my way" type of thing, because the one to lose out will be this child. I just honestly don't know many, well any actually, parents that seek out treatment for their children, if there isn't a significant reason for doing so.

I hope I'm not being offensive, that is certainly not my intention. I've just had personal experience, being the child in the middle of two parents trying to hurt each other. I also, as many other parents, have personally dealt with having a child that has many many problems, but the world around us just see's "a typical boy", even those very close to us. We see it, his teachers see it, his medical team see's it, but ask our family members, even those that are with him daily, and "ah, he's just a boy".  

So I guess I'm just saying to tread carefully, and make sure that the decisions being made are in the best interest of the child, and not to prove mom wrong. Make sure you see someone very competent, and honestly I think mom should be involved in this process. If you really want to know what is fully going on with this child, and if the diagnosis is correct, I just don't know how you can do that without moms input. I think a second opinion is always a good idea, but it needs to be with someone competent, and that professional also needs all the facts.

I also just wanted to say, that I really do not find it odd that the kids cry when they have to leave dad. Why wouldn't they? They have to leave dad, they love him, they will miss him. That certainly doesn't mean that mom is doing anything wrong. It means they don't want to leave dad, very normal. When I did day care, I had kids cry every single time they had to go home, they were having fun, they didn't want to leave. And every morning mom left, those same kids would cry that mom was leaving, they didn't want to leave mom. Anyway, just crying that they have to leave the presence of someone they love, really, means nothing.

Good luck!

I agree totally ladym.  Well said!!

I second ladym's comments.

I have a difficult ex or soon to be ex but know that for my son's sake I have to work with his dad.  Trust me it isn't easy but in the long run it is necessary for the well being of the child.

Dad and Mom need to put aside their differences and work together for the sake of their child. 

ladym -- I want all the advice that can possibly be given on this situation.  There's always the opportunity that something will be said that we haven't even thought about. 

Dad is being careful, thank goodness!!  Right now Mom doesn't know - only because the 2 times they have talked since he got the children, there has been ongoing telephone fights and no way to even talk about things - he quits fighting and gives the phone to the kids to talk to their Mom, because the kids get upset and obviously suffer.  They say "Dad were they yelling at you again?" Dad cannot talk to Mom without step-dad on a speaker phone, interrupting, cussing, etc.  This guy is very aggressive and appears to be mad all the time.  As I said, they were in court in May for problems just like this.  The children were appointed a guardian ad litem to act on their best interest.  The judge gives his opinion on July 5th - same day of the psychologist appt.  In court, when guardian ad litem addressed the judge on his opinion on things, one request was that the step-dad stay outside any and all conversations about these children, that the 2 parents should be the ones talking about these children.  As to custody -- they both have joint legal custody -- Dad, by court orders, should be allowed to participate in anything and everything.  Actually I don't think he could even take the child for these tests without the joint legal custody.  And he calls their home every week without fail, not that they always get to talk to each other, but he does call.  Every other word out of step-dad's mouth is "m-f" this and horrible -- with the children listening waiting to talk to their dad.  They were, in fact, standing waiting to talk to their dad when step-dad threatened that when "they" won in court, Dad would never lay eyes on his kids again.  I agree with Dad -- this is NOT a contest that anyone wins - it should be about these children's best interest.   His lawyer is aware of what he is doing, saw him almost 2 weeks ago - and yes, he should notify her -- he has tried twice to talk about the doc and taking him off meds until second opinion -- lawyer said all he can do is make a real attempt at talking to her.  The courts saw step-dad in action - so they are well aware of how he/they act.  I told him to send her a registered letter, explaining that they couldn't talk on phone and give her the doc's phone#. I would think the doctor would want to talk to her - and I am  hoping they would make a long distance call and ask her questions - or perhaps in that registered letter he can send the doc's # and surely she would call the doc, but who knows -- and I agree, with him only seeing them on vacation periods, holidays and a weekend here and there, the Mom should have the input they need -- actually, I wish there was a way they could talk to the teacher, also.  The principal's secretary told me that this child was not having any problems in school - he plays with her child at her home, sometimes - but she's not the teacher. He has been straight A since starting school and loves school - fortunately all 3 do.  Prior to their divorce, they dealt with a program called Parents as Teachers - and this child was evalutated from I guess right after birth until he started to kindergarten - with no problems seen, so I'm wondering if this would help the doc in any diagnosing?? In fact, their babysitter, while with dad, is daughter to the woman who evaluated these children with the Parents as Teachers organization. 

I agree that it's normal to cry when they leave Dad - -they have always been very close, in spite of this horrible situation -- I don't have a clue if this next info is normal or not - and it worries me -- this particular child, on Dad's last 2-3 weekend visits, has woken Dad up in motel room at 2 to 3 a.m begging not to have to go home??  They all cry until they get a few blocks from home, then they become like little tin soldiers, because step dad will whip them if he sees them crying about their dad. They also get spankings if they don't call step-dad "Daddy", which they don't like to do.  Step-dad's family members have witnessed this.  

Fortunately for me, I didn't have to go thru "divorcing" parents.  I have tried to imagine what these kids and some others must feel -- no way to imagine. 

We are trying to tread carefully -- and dad is very open to the medication if needed.  I guess some of the confusion comes from Mom sitting in court, while the child has already been diagnosed, and doing the "no problems at all" routine when questioned about how the children are doing in school, etc.  We could see no reason to try and hide that fact - it would not reflect on her at all and it certainly is nothing to be ashamed of.  And I sure can't see a doctor putting a child on meds when there is no problem whatsoever going on. 

At the point of last summer's auto accident, where the 2 children were hurt, she told Dad that a dope head broadsided her and she was suing.  Her story was "thank goodness" they had on their seat belts.  The children were asked by the guardian ad litem about wearing seat belts -- NO they were not wearing them.  So, I decided to look up their state public online records -- never done anything like that in my life - and there it was, where she got a ticket for "unsafe movement" -- statute referring to running a red light.  Got copy of accident report which had 2 witnesses stating she ran the red light -- so yes, we are confused about anything and everything that is told, now -- but, here's where the story gets scarey -- on the court website - you choose the county where someone lives and type in name -- I just typed in last name, and it brought up all with that last name -- well, step-dad's first name starts with the letter right before hers.  I could have fell out of my chair -- "impersonating law enforcement" on him.  Knowing his extremely aggressive nature, I checked further.  That particular courthouse will tell you over the phone and you can "order" background info -- well, there's numerous driving while intoxicated, driving on revoked, reckless driving to endanger, 2nd degree tresspassing and worst of all -- assault on female.  Then, step-dad's family sends word to me to check out the previous state he lived in -- there's 3rd degree felony - a stolen truck crime. I actually even called  2 victims -- all report a maniac in his behavior.  Both expressed concern that there are 3 small children in this man's home.  So - that adds to the worry. As one victim stated -- what are the odds that this man acts out so horribly around his victims and even in court - and then changes when he walks thru his door at home?? 

So, this is why we want a second opinion and also why I was wondering if a psychologist -- and now hopefully a psychiatrist would pick up on any other problems going on with this child/children, if there are any other problems going on.  This is why we were talking about finding the proper type doc this summer even before this diagnosis was dropped on us.  But, having no experience with this sort of thing, didn't realize how booked these doctors are.

So, please don't worry about being blunt or offensive -- you have been neither, and I appreciate your advice.  And I am glad to know that the tiredness and appetite issues would most likely go away after a time on the meds, if it turns out that he does in fact need them. 

Oh, I almost forgot (believe it or not!ha) -- since the adderall rx (xr??) is a controlled substance and the child is now in another state from which he was diagnosed, the psychologist office told me -- and Dad's physician told him - that they didn't know how the prescription would even be renewed/refilled in their state -- it could NOT be done by doc calling a pharmacy in their state and neither thought  "written prescription by mail/fax" would get it filled in Dad's state - -so the child would run out of meds before going home, because she didn't send enough for the whole 6 weeks.  Or, the child would have to see a doctor anyway to get prescription filled.  She didn't even send the prescription bottles -- just sent the pills in one of those day planner things where each day's meds are in the little compartment by days.  SO, I doubt seriously that he could just take the child to a doctor and them just automatically believe him and write out a prescription, since it appears that these adhd meds are going like hotcakes on the streets -- yet another fact I've learned thru this mess.

And I don't think getting a second opinion is to prove Mom wrong -- if anything, on Dad's part, he has appeared almost hurt, I guess is the word, that the children's mother is okay with this man having any influence on the children and worries about what all really goes on.  Her family backs Dad in this mess 100% and has since the divorce and are also worried about these children. 

Okay, ladym -- I think my "novel" is longer than yours!!ha  I apologize for it's length.  Thank you very much for replying and for every bit of your input.  I'm going to look for child psychiatrists in his area tomorrow a.m first thing as advised by SmallMom & MomWI and start begging for an appointment. 

Wow, what a mess, it's really to bad that mom will not communicate more. Step dad sounds like a real piece of work.

My apologies for assuming this was an attempt to get at mom. From your initial post it honestly sounded like a dad (and family) that wants the kids, doesn't want kids on meds, and looking for any reason to prove mom is unfit.
From your last post though, I can see that there are reasons to be concerned and it's not just a cat fight to see who can hurt who the most.

Mom may have lied in court out of fear. Some people hear a child has AD/HD and they assume it's just bad parenting. Parents that don't want to deal with their kids, etc. It's a very common misconception, and maybe she was afraid of that. I'm not her, and it sounds like her judgment is poor as it is, and maybe she just lied just to lie.
The seat-belts was really a terribly bad decision on her part. I'm sure not one she wanted to share with dad, knowing it was her fault. I don't think it's a "remove children from your custody" offense, but yes, horribly poor judgment.

I hope I didn't come across as insinuating that dad wasn't involved. It does seem that he is as involved as he is allowed to be, and caring of course. Even given that though, I still urge you to get mom involved in this process if possible. Even if it IS strictly through the doctor speaking to the mom. Even a call from dad every single day, he still won't see the things that she may see being with the kids all day, every day. I live right next door to family members whom my children are all very close to. My son is over there A LOT. They are closer to him then anyone else outside our home is. They know he is a handful but they still just think he is "just a rowdy boy", because they don't deal with the things we have to deal with on a daily basis. I just really feel you have a much better chance of getting a correct diagnosis if the doc can get the opinion of mom too.

Yes, you are correct on the Adderall. It is not something that can be called in, or faxed, not even within your own state, much less another one. The doctor could probably fax records to another doc with their evaluation, and medication treatment, and a new doc right out the script, but I think that's about it.

A competent child psychiatrist should definitely be able to pick up on other things. Ask around and find out who is the best one. There can be some really good ones, and some really bad ones, all with the same titles.

Good luck with all this. Again, please try to get mom involved, even if dad and mom can't talk directly. It would be the best way to get an accurate diagnosis, and it's just not good to have either party (mom OR dad) in the dark about what's going on with their children. Sometimes that means one person has to step up and be the grown up, even if the other one won't.

Many thoughts and prayers that those babies stay safe.

Ireen, I don't have anything to say to add for the excellent and caring advice that has already been said, but I feel strongly called to pray for this family and for the children.  I will definitely keep them in my prayers.   I live in Oregon, and here there is some type of parent evaluation done by a psychiatrist that can be used in custody cases.  Here they run about 2-4 thousand.  not cheap.  I cannot remember what they are called.  Bet Mom may fail one.  Just a thought.

Ireen, yes, since dad has partial legal custody, he does have a legal right to all of his child's medical records, as well as any other records.  At least in my state.  I don't know if it differs from state to state.  These would be very helpful for a second opinion. 

Also, have Dad document EVERYTHING he is observing, like the lack of phone calls from mom regarding checking on him on the new medication.  I would think a good mother would call regardless of meds or not, just to touch base.  Please, please, please, did I say paleese, have him document everything wonky.  If not for now, then for future custody arrangements.  This agenda of mishaps will be invaluable if there would come a time in the future he would need to gain full custody of the children or fight for their well-being.  If he won't or cannot, then YOU do it.  this is the way this thing is going.  That is the only other thing I could add.  I've been through a divorce myself. 

Thank you all so very much for your replies - and especially for your prayers in this matter.

ladym- no apologies needed at all -- if I were on the outside looking in I would most likely have the same assumptions.  In fact, I myself have questioned many, many things throughout this ordeal - wondering if "we" were exaggerating things in our minds or over-reacting about things that might be half-way normal considering a divorce being in the picture.  I think it is now to a point where someone with the proper training needs to figure out what's going on - if there is anything else going on.   It's almost like we are at a point where we are scared NOT to check out things. 

I wondered if Mom could possibly be scared to tell in court about the adhd -- and I even thought that maybe since the diagnosis had just taken place, she might feel uncomfortable, for whatever reason, to tell it, until the diagnosis sank in or something.  Then again, she was asked the very simple question of "do you own your own home" -- "No, we rent" -- they actually bought their home a year prior to going to court - she lied about that one on deposition and in court??  Go figure!!  Who would possibly even care about that one??  In court, she's asking for Dad to pay for all medical bills concerning auto accident.  The car she was driving was owned by her husband, had insurance on that vehicle.  When asked in court if they turned in medical claims on auto insurance -- NO they didn't -- when asked why - "We just didn't".  Guardian ad litem addressed that situation also -- Dad, by divorce decree is supposed to pay 1/2 of all medical bills not covered by insurance, but found it "ridiculous" that this was not turned in on their insurance policy, because that's why we carry insurance.  Fortunately, as their father, Dad can turn in the claim himself or I can or anybody can.  We have been told that step-dad is SR22 or high risk -- so you can imagine the problems that will occur and I can only guess that this is the reason they didn't turn in a claim.  On the flip side, this is a pretty hefty bill to just pull out of your pocket if you don't have to, and shouldn't have to.   Then again, what will be the backlash from step-dad if it is turned in???  And obviously this will bring on more fighting for the children to witness from the background.

He is supposed to call Mom once more before the appointment and will try again.  She has not called at all during the 3 weeks he's had them. His lawyer says he does not have to call her and let the children talk to her while he has them for visitation -- that should be her responsibility, but so far, he has made the call once a week(waited 1-1/2 weeks before the first call), even tho the children never ask to call home either. And I actually thought she might call during this visit, to see how the child was doing on the medicine since it is a pretty new diagnosis - but wrong again.  Mom is an LPN, so after I read about side effects and all the other details, I figured she might be more familiar with meds or certainly understand them better than we would and that she would be double checking for side effects or anything else that might arise, as to whether the dosage was correct, etc.  And in reading about Zoloft with possible suicidal thoughts in children, usually in beginning of starting this medicine, most articles say a child should be monitored closely for several weeks, by the doctor. 

Dad actually wonders if the fact that they do have joint legal custody might mean that he could sign release form where doc in his state could obtain records from doc who diagnosed this - looks like that would be a tremendous help and would include school evaluation as well as what Mom has observed.    And if we get really lucky, when he calls Mom, the stepdad will be gone from the home, and then they might actually talk.  Either way, I know he will give the doc her name and phone # and he will give mom the doc's # - whether by phone or in writing.  His lawyer explained that he should do everything according to what courts would approve of, even tho she is not doing it that way.  And fortunately, he works with some very decent men who constantly remind him to above all, keep his nose clean in all this and do exactly as the courts order and then whatever happens, he will have no regrets, and hopefully this situation will eventually become one where these children can openly love both parents as it should be, and there can be peace of mind that nothing else is going on that would be responsible for any problems this child has or adding to the problems that may already exist.

calicorose - thank you for your prayers  - your concern is very much appreciated and I fully intend to take the excellent advice and pass it all on to Dad in this matter.

crazymama - if only Dad/Mom lived in Oregon - you probably couldn't shoot her out of a cannon for a parent evaluation - she/stepdad was totally against the guardian ad litem who was appointed to act on behalf of the children and they were pretty much forced to meet with him the eve before court.  Mom/stepdad don't appear to be the least bit scared of courts, officials, authority or anything, so I figure we're just in for a bad ride for the most part.  It is very hard to enforce anything when each side lives in a different state and this little ordeal in court took 2 years to get there. And it's even harder to figure out what, if anything, is really going on when they are soo far away.  Thanks for your comments and I'll certainly check on Dad's state and the parent evaluation. If I am understanding things correctly, all medical professionals by law have to report cases where they feel something unsafe or bad is going on behind the scenes.  So if we can luck upon a competent child psychiatrist, then hopefully any fears will be put to rest or corrections will be made.

 

calicorose - Dad does document everything (and I double-document!ha) - we started that long ago due to the confusion/craziness.  He has taped most conversations (not the children) - the filthy confrontations with step-dad/mom.  Lawyer has listened to some - not all -- probably couldn't stomach all of them!ha Lawyer has all background info on stepdad, court certified papers proving it is true.  This last little court deal was initiated by her - wanting more child support and less visitation - her wishes were that Dad only see the children 2 weeks in summer with supervised visitation due to her claiming they are in danger when with their dad.  They actually went to his house, stepdad posed on Dad's front porch with beer bottles, cans spread everywhere on porch and ground and said this was Dad's home.  Then took pictures bending over garbage cans showing beer bottles/cans in the garbage.  Dad does not drink - but hey - it's his word against hers!!  Fortunately the guardian ad litem studied the pictures - saw where some pictures taken at an angle of the home did not have the beer bottles in places on the porch/ground where they in fact were laying on frontal shots of the porch/ground and testified that these were "staged" pictures - thank God that was noticed.  Then, as Dad's lawyer studied the pictures, he noticed that none of the beer bottles/cans were even opened!ha  So, Dad got lucky on that one, because I'm sure a judge never knows who to believe.  She needed more child support because she was paying at least 0. per month daycare -- naturally that one backfired because these children were in school from say 8 to 3 - so how much time do they spend in daycare??  She immediately backed down to saying she probably spent .00 every 2 weeks!  Crazy!! So, this round was where he had to defend his character.  If stepdad had stayed in the courtroom, Dad's lawyer would have gotten him -- but Mom's lawyer wisely put him totally out of the courtroom at beginning of this process -- I think it took 3 requests from her lawyer getting stepdad to leave the room, plus a final request from the judge before he would leave (and it was a loud exit) - but he did sit outside and fume the whole day, I think. I wish, of course, they'd left him in the room so he could take the stand -- but I'm sure her lawyer knew what was best for her.  From one of stepdad's victims stories this guy is prone to jump up and knock over chairs in court room and really act out.  Dad's lawyer also says a judge is well aware of why a husband would be asked to leave the courtroom rather than allowing him to sit in on a trial that includes his own wife.  She claimed Dad never called the kids at all - or it was very rare that he did -- he had all phone bills since divorce to prove that one was also a lie.  So yes, we have to document each and every thing it seems.  Prior to the divorce it was periodic drug tests that we had to pay for to prove he wasn't a dope head.  This round, the dope routine could not be used, as it was disproven in first round - only new information can be brought up - so I assume the only other thing she could think of was alcohol -- and thankfully this one has backfired also. 

I too, like you have been thru a divorce -- so I was really full of advice!ha  Sometimes when we can laugh about things, I threaten that I'm getting so good at this internet stuff, that I'm going to find a Jerry Springer Couple contest and enter them and we might win big money -- he reminds me that if I would add in my divorce with them, we'd be a sure win!ha 

Thanks, calicorose for the advice, and we will certainly continue to document, document, document.