Punishment Ideas? | ADHD Information

HELP! My son is almost 6 years old (next month) and I am looking for ideas on punishment... He is out of control- he hits us, spits at us, throws temper tantrums, screams at us, makes faces, "hates us and wishes we weren't his parents", won't eat food, etc etc. We have tried timeouts, consequences, priviledges, spankings, soap in the mouth, etc- NOTHING WORKS!!! I am meeting with a psychologist on July 26th, but I need help NOW! There is only 1 thing that he likes and it is playing with his 2 friends outside... BUT, these are the only 2 friends where he can play "nicely" and not get aggressive... They play sports outside and they get along so well... He does not care if I take away video games, computer, or anything else. Nothing phases this child. Does anyone have any ideas for an out of control child until I meet with the psychologist? THANKS!!!

Well if you have to tell him he won't be able to play with his 2 friends until he can behave in the house and start listening to you.

That works sometimes for my son who is 6 1/2 that is ADHD & ODD

I have threatened this a few times, but have not followed through because the one time that I did take this away was horrible. He was inside the house for 3 hours throwing everything, screaming, and being a monster.... He gives me this glare like he wants to kill me and does everything to make me mad- I can't believe how smart he is and what he does to make me angry... So, I threaten but I don't follow through because the punishment is worse for me than him.

Are you being consistent with your discipline?

I found with my son that I was not always as consistent with him as I should have been. I started giving him choices and maintained my voice tone with him and this seems to work with him. I try to use the Love and Logic philosphy with a few twists. (Jim Fay is one of the writers of several Love and Logic Books)

Goodluck and hang in there. I'm sure the psychologists will have some wonderful ideas for you in regards to his behaviors.

*Another thought would be to have a glucose tolerance test done on your little one. Our psychiatrist recommended this. We did the 6 hour test and found our son to have reactive hypoglycemia. At certain points our son's sugar levels drop drastically and this can be a contributor to impulsive anger issues. Changing his diet ever so slightly helped with the impulsive behaviors. I feel that we have a happier little boy on our hands. His anger is so much more under control. We use 5 mg of folcalin xr as well because his QEEG test and many observations deemed he has moderate ad/hd.

[QUOTE=ddietmeyer]HELP! My son is almost 6 years old (next month) and I am looking for ideas on punishment... He is out of control- he hits us, spits at us, throws temper tantrums, screams at us, makes faces, "hates us and wishes we weren't his parents", won't eat food, etc etc. We have tried timeouts, consequences, priviledges, spankings, soap in the mouth, etc- NOTHING WORKS!!! I am meeting with a psychologist on July 26th, but I need help NOW! There is only 1 thing that he likes and it is playing with his 2 friends outside... BUT, these are the only 2 friends where he can play "nicely" and not get aggressive... They play sports outside and they get along so well... He does not care if I take away video games, computer, or anything else. Nothing phases this child. Does anyone have any ideas for an out of control child until I meet with the psychologist? THANKS!!![/QUOTE]

With our son of 6 we were able to control this with saline enemas. Information we received was form Dr. Scott . In short toxins build up in the bowel which cause some children to become adhd and get right out of control. This is common between the ages of 4 and 10. Many children have no control over this and as you stated get out of control. A enema made from nothing but warm water with 2 teaspoons of table salt per quart added and given as soon as this acting takes place, helps clear the bowel of these toxins. Our son was on on drugs to help control this. Since using the enema we have not needed the drugs. You can contact doctor scott for information at his public question and answers e-mail adress doctorscotts@yahoo.com or you can e-mail me cutemomof42003@yahoo.com and I will give you more information on how this is done.

Don't threaten anything you're not going to follow through on and if you've already threatened it, do it! It might make you miserable in the short run, but you're going to be miserable until this kid goes to college if you don't. You have to get this kid under control. Clamp down hard on everything and get him to understand that him behaving is not negotiable and you'll do whatever you have to so that he understands that. Is he throwing a tantrum at dinner? Make him eat by himself. Does he throw the food on the floor instead of eating? Tell him that's all there is for tonight. It's scorched-earth time.

My son learned not to act up in restaurants when I told him that if he did, he and I were going to sit in the car and let Daddy finish his meal in peace. He knew I was serious about this because I was willing to interupt my own dinner just to carry through on a punishment. He knows he can't hold me hostage with his behavior because I'm ready to do whatever I have to do to follow through on a punishment. I ask him "Mom always keeps her promises, doesn't she?" He nods in agreement because he knows it's true. I follow through on my threats and I keep the good promises, too.

You will benefit from getting dh on board with this too, but if you can't, still only threaten what you can do and then follow through. My dh makes stupid threats like "If you don't turn the tv off in 3 seconds I'll ground you for a month!" They're not proportional and not reasonable. Ds doesn't really take dh seriously when it comes to punishments. He obeys because he knows I'm listening and will come in and propose a reasonable but strict punishment.

Also, your son is only 6. Don't ground him for months or give punishments that go on forever. He's got to see an immediate and tangible difference between being in trouble and not being in trouble, so you want to reward the good behavior as well. I'll see if I can find the marble thread and bump that up. You may also want to read 1-2-3 Magic. I don't think you're going to get to rewarding good behavior until you get the bad behavior under control.

ddietmyer, your son's behaviour does sound over the top, and that most motivating behaviour techniques are not going to motivate him. You know there is something way amiss when nothing motivates them. I would say if it doesn't work, don't do it, whatever that may be. Stay consistent, yes, but it sounds like there is a lot more going on, and it is very good that you have an appointment coming up! Has he had a good physical exam, bloodwork and everything yet? Perhaps you can get him in for that soon, and get started underway to find or rule out anything medical?

Hugs

Follow through is very important and it sounds like you are worn out, good luck with the psychologist. How about what we do when he misbehaves still can use time out for his favorite activities but give him choices. What I mean by choices once the activity is taken away he can either earn it back by showing you good behavior but you decide when he gets them back so it is not for 1 day so punishment can take longer that is choice one, choice 2 give him a chore to do and he can decide how long the punishment lasts if he does his chore right away he earns it back and if he waits then the punishment will wait.

As for hitting another idea is have him make the person he hit an I am sorry card and tell him if he does it again he has to give a toy to whom he hit next time and it will be moms choice which one not his. Good Luck

Check out Ograms marble system.

Your son's behavior sounds over the top for ADHD. What kind of doctor diagnosed him? Is he on any meds? If so, are the meds helping or making things worse?

I would give up on punishments and adopt a systematic reward system. Ogram's marble system thread has been bumped again, so check it out. Figure out what motivates your son, then go from there. You'll both be happier with a consistent reward system.

Also, this is an awful lot for ADHD. You might want to talk to your ped about a referral to a specialist. I would look into ADHD parenting classes (not the same as regular parenting classes) for management tools (and sanity!).

Get a Np to be paid for by SE to look at your son. We are. Our son is 10 and suddenly he is much better behavior wise. We tell Daniel that is not ok. Social stories I hear work great. Is your child labeled with any delays developmental wize. This is not part of haveing adhd. [QUOTE=cutemomof42006]With our son of 6 we were able to control this with saline enemas. In short toxins build up in the bowel which cause some children to become adhd and get right out of control. Since using the enema we have not needed the drugs.[/QUOTE]

I know my son's behaviour would DEFINITELY improve if he knew an enema was forthcoming. Yikes.

Sorry, I don't have any brilliant punishments to add to this thread ... only to agree with others who say that the follow-through is so important. Choose carefully what you threaten with, so you can always back it up. I have to make a point of counting to 30 or more before dishing out any consequence, so I don't need to back off later.

PB
[QUOTE=cutemomof42006]

THIS IS DANGEROUS!!!

"The toxicity of excessive amount of salt has been known for ages and reports on it date back to the ancient China, when saturated salt solutions were used as a traditional suicide method. Despite the fact that this home provision is widespread and easily accessible, exogenic intake of excessive amounts of common salt which would cause vital clinical symptoms or death by hypernatremia can rarely be seen in adult healthy persons. However, due to excessive salt intake, hypernatremia is far more common in young babies and children, retards and persons with psychic deficiency, as well as in elderly people, most probably within a specific geriatric

psychopathology (1,2).

Even though using saline solutions as emetics in first aid for acute poisoning has been abandoned, there arecase reports, even today, on some sporadic fatal and non-fatal cases of ingestion of salt which was used for washing out the throat or raising low blood pressure. There are some known cases of hypernatremia of sailors who were forced to swallow a significant amount of seawater under specific circumstances. There are also some case reports of fatal poisoning by violent and unwilling intake of common salt solutions during exorcism (the ritual of getting rid of an evil spirit from a place or a person's body by prayers or magic) (2)...."

anybody would behave if they know there was an enema coming their way

you have to be consistent in your punishements and always follow through.i think you defenetely need help,his behavior is over the top.have you tried behavioral therapy?

scotmama38905.0034027778Sorry but I think the enema would also be a punishment to the momma. Esssshhh no thanks on this idea

A kid who gets frequent enemas is going to grow up with more problems than ADHD. I'm sorry -- this is cruel and unusual punishment.

Strattera made Daniel worse. He thru a chair thru a window. Rewards are not real. Life doesn't reward all the time either. When we were kids we would sleep inplace on any removal of things. We use 3 times and X will happen. I find a healthier diet with supplements work best. In our home also you get nothing if you do nothing.

my son also obssesed about one child at nursery but now moved on to another one.i would not worry about it.

you need to take care of yourself first if you are run down ,unhappy your son will pick up on it.

i agree with jfla about smiling,giving rewards and praises,right now he does not care as he is always punished anyway but kids will do anything for a praise,a hug or a smile.i used to fight all the time with jude,now i am more relaxed and easygoing and i really enjoy spending times with him.

we tackled everything one at the time.the first one was the sleep problems and with melatonin and passiflora he now goes to sleep quickly and sleep all night,the difference in him is amazing,would you not be cranky if you did not have enough sleep?

choose your battles,so what if he does not want to sit down to eat as long as he eats,let it be.i just leave a plate for my son in the living room and he picks from it and eat in his own time.

set aside 1/2 hour of fun time just the 2 of you,ask him about his day,if he would like to do something with you,if he says no tell him okay with a big smile and tell him if he changes his mind you will be happy to do something with him,whatever he wants.persevere.my son likes baking with me.

hope this help

I am glad that you have started the process of getting a diagnosis and will be seeing the pediatrician today.

Until you get a diagnosis and put some interventions in place it is important like others have said to have immediate consequences.

Make a list of activities that he would like to do as rewards. Since he likes playing with friends, perhaps taking him and his friends to the park, on a hike, bike rides, swimming etc Make a list of lots of outdoor places and activities.

Give directions face to face, not from across the room.

Keep it simple, do not allow yourself to get involved in arguments.

Try to keep directions to a minimum, and remember to reward any minor compliance with verbal and physical (hug, pat, high five) praise. Surprise and add a food treat if possible in a casual way.

Try to put on a smile even when you don't feel like it. He will find it engaging.

Try singing simple directions (you know like the clean up song?) We made songs about lots of things. "Come on to the table; everyone together; Ds, daddy and mommy too."

Sometimes it is easier to take them by the hand and lead rather than go through directions and dealing with his choice to comply or not.

At other times molding the desired behavior is helpful. "You don't want to brush your teeth? Let me help you." (standing behind the child, place your hands on his and make him physically go through the necessary motions.) It is done without anger or emotion, just very matter of fact. Ds usually would laugh at first, thinking it was funny, but it got tiresome and uncomfortable having someone do this so usually the next time I'd ask if he wanted help he preferred to do it himself. (I remember molding picking up toys by crawling over him with my hands on his, making the bed too.)

One excellent teacher taught me about figuring out "what they will sell their soul for."

then using that as a reward for compliance. Interestingly, for one student it was a well loved ribbon; for another it was a blank calendar that he could fill in. (He would do anything for that!)

Re: Marble System The good thing about marble tokens is that just a shake of a marble container or marbles in your hand can be a reminder for compliance.

Good Luck and let us know what happens.

jfla238905.348599537

All very good ideas- I typically clean up his toys in order to avoid confrontation but maybe making it more like a game than it would help... He loves games so it would make it easier on all of us... I know that I need to be more patient now because I just get exhausted with it every day.... I need to take a deep breath and "smile" like you suggest and be more loving and encouraging... My mom is taking him on Saturday overnight so it will help me get rejuvenated again. I have another question- My son, 6 yrs old, is an only child and never had neighbors to play with until they moved in about 2-3 months ago. He has become obsessed with these 2 kids (the older boy in particular)... It seems very unhealthy- he wakes at 7am and wants to play and has difficulties waiting until 10am to play with his friend- if they are not there to play- again, major difficulties- outbursts, tantrums, intense anger, etc. The boy gets annoyed because he is hugging and telling him he loves him all the time... I am not worried that he is gay but I am worried about this extremely unhealthy obsessive behavior with this other child (2nd grader). Most of his recent behavior revolves around not playing with this other child... Any ideas to help break up this obsession? Again, these are all questions that I have for the pediatrician (today) and psych (July 26th) but any feedback now is appreciated!

Take him away for the day ( if you think he can behave for you in public) go to the zoo, go to an amusement park, the pool...do something fun if the other child is not around.

If you do get a formal diagnosis of ADHD and the doc prescribes meds, I would not worry so much about the side effects of the meds because it sounds as if his behavior is far worse than any side effect could be. Many of the stimulant meds have been around for at least 50 years and are pretty safe if your child is monitored closely and does not have a pre-existing condition. Also, have you tried any of the alternatives such as Omega 3 and magnesium? If not you may want to check the alternative board for these.
We use omega 3 and magnesium in addition to his stimulant medication ( our doc is aware of what we are doing--it is important to let the doc know what you are doing even if it is "natural").

Good luck over the next three weeks.

Hopefully the ped will give you a diagnosis today.

Younger kids often idolize older ones and that may be some of it. but honestly, I do not have any suggestons there. I have three kids and never ran into that as a problem.

As far as waiting for ten o'clock, get him outside to burn off some energy. Time spent in "green" nature areas has been found to be relaxing. You may want to try a scavenger hunt to keep his interest up. Put the objects you find in a bag or glue them on cardboard or styrofoam meat tray as you walk. Sing and make up songs on your excursion. Try imaginary role playing some favorite theme with him on your outdoor adventure. My youngest is 14 years old and we still spontaneously play our own verbal role playing games wherever we might be. Have fun!
jfla238905.4117708333Thank you everyone for your ideas. My son has not been given a formal diagnosis and we meet today with the pediatrician for the physical. I just feel hopeless- THis is horrible to say, but I wish I could just send him away.... The next 3 weeks will be miserable until I meet with the psychologist. I will try to be much more consistent and I will follow through on my threat of taking away his play date with our neighbors... He is absolutely out of control and I feel like I am starting to hate my son... that sounds so horrible but he is just so mean, angry, spiteful, that there is NOTHING enjoyable about him right now. If it is not his way than all hell breaks out... Do I keep a 6 year old in his room all day? Our biggest problem is telling him "no" to something... Dinner is a battle- hates to sit still for 5 minutes to eat a meal- he has not gained weight in 3 years because he won't sit still long enough to eat- he prefers to drink than to eat. Telling him to come inside b/c playtime with friends is over is a nightmare-- plays ALL day and is never tired- wants to go, go go ALL the time. His friends get tired and want a break- NOT Jimmy!!! Then, bedtime is a battle- 45 minutes of trying to get him to stay in bed- the same routine EVERY day- it is just exhausting! He is not on meds because my husband is opposed- I am desperate and willing to try meds but my husband wants to exhaust all avenues before the meds... My husband is in agreement that our son is 100% OUT OF CONTROL but he is worried because of the side effects caused by meds... And, we really need to get a formal diagnosis before we get him on meds too (right?) I just feel like this keeps getting worse- He hates us because all we ever do is punish him- His common phrase is, "I wish you weren't my parents!!" UGH- and he is only 6 yrs old!! I will look at some of the websites you posted, I couldn't do the enimas, and I will look at the marble idea....

Sounds like you all could benefit from family therapy! We will be starting next week as a matter of fact.

We have a defiant one, also. This summer I've been trying to focus more on the positives and catch her doing good as much as I can. I'm trying to build a really good relationship with her as a foundation. My goal is to give her 10 attagirls to 1 badgirl. I think she was getting too much negativity. Being punished all the time is going to eventually evolve into rebellion. I also am trying to spend one-on-one time with her doing anything SHE decides to do and let her be the boss. Without a good relationship, she is not going to even want to follow the rules.

In the short term, perhaps you can pick one behavior to work on (swearing, for example) and incentivize him for it. I would say work on one thing at a time, we can't fix all the problems at once. There are lots of books out there on behavior modification methods, Ogram's marble system, sticker charts, etc. You just have to come up with an idea of what he would be willing to work for (money, prizes, screen time, special activities) and perhaps even discuss it with him. Also, if there are siblings in the house, they should also be on a reward system so he doesn't feel singled out.

I fully agree with Smallmom's comment re: enemas. She said, "A kid who gets frequent enemas is going to grow up with more problems than ADHD. I'm sorry -- this is cruel and unusual punishment."

I do know of someone that is in serious therapy now with many issues stemming from this practice when they were young.

Please think carefully and do a full investigation before engaging in anything like this. The psychological damage can be serious and longlasting.
jfla238905.9102546296I always found that a good soak in chlorine or salt water and lots of sun took the starch out of my son. (that's my cute way of saying beach, pool or sprinkler play). It was the only thing that would tire him out enough during the summer.

To the lady who suggested an enema: Did you EVER have a colonoscopy? An enema would be a child's equivalent, and I doubt you give your child a "forget-about-it-pill." I think enemas had their day before the flux of "gentle laxitives." I would not want one, I would not give one, and they can be dangerous both emotionally and phsycially.

To Mammi, the saline water was used in the enema, not ingested.

LadyM, and the other posters with behaviour techniques, this is all awsome stuff we all can use with our kids, I appreciate all of the no-nonsense advise here!

Are there any other obsessions? Any past ones? Any developmental delays?

It's already been said, but I completely agree, don't threaten what you aren't willing to follow through on, and if you say it, make sure you back it up. If you don't, your child will never know what you are serious about and what you are not, so he will always "test".
As mothers of special needs kids we tend to get beat down. We get so tired from constantly having to discipline, argue, and go through the battle of the wills, that we begin to retreat. We start to back off on follow through, and discipline just for the sake of not having to go through the drama for the 100th time that day. It's totally understandable, but really not a wise move, because in the end, you just have to deal with MORE bad behavior. So gather up your strength, put on your mommy warrior suit, don't be afraid of your child, and don't EVER lose another battle of the wills again. Get a hold of this now, because when he is bigger and stronger, you really won't be able to control him.

I can absolutely guarantee you that when you start to follow through, he will get worse before he gets better. He is used to throwing a major fit, and eventually moms caves. So when you up the stakes, he will as well. Just hold strong. There will be a point that he will realize that mommy isn't going to budge and he will give up.

To answer your question, no, I don't think a 6 yr old should be in his room all day, and I doubt you will have the strength at this point to follow through with him in his room screaming all day. So, for now, keep the punishments shorter. Keep a list of things in your head that you will do "sent to room for X amount of time, take away this privilege, etc". This will help you avoid blurting out something that you really don't want to follow through on. I had this problem because I have ADHD and an extremely impulsive mouth. So I was the mom blurting out "you will be grounded for a month". Now I have two basic discipline tools, taking away t.v. time, and grounding. They are what motivate my children. You will have to find what motivates your son, and that seems to be his friends.

Since he wants to play with them from sun up, to sun down, and you also don't want to listen to screaming for an entire day, I would bet you could get nice results from just shortening that up to say "you can't play with your friends for one hour today". One hour is a long time to a 6 year old, especially when it's something he wants to do non stop. But, also throw in the little rule of "your time doesn't start, until you stop screaming and throwing a fit". So he has to wait one hour, and the clock doesn't start until his tantrum stops. The first few days those tantrums might last for a really long time, but hang in there. When he settles down, be sure to praise him for finally stopping, and also remind him that had he stopped **:** min/hours ago, his time would have started much sooner.

Again, keep things short punishment wise so that you are able to follow through. Even if the punishment doesn't seem like enough, just the point of you following through will begin to send a message. Then you can increase punishment time to appropriate levels when he is responding better, and you are a bit stronger.

As far as the verbal stuff goes, as simple as this sounds, I am finding this to be more effective then any discipline I have used so far.... I realized at one point that my son was severely lacking in "feeling" words. So "I hate you, I wish you weren't my parents, you're a ***** (insert favorite swear word of the week)" was what I always heard. I explained to him, during a calm moment (dont try to reason with a tantruming kid) that it is okay if he is mad, sad, frustrated, scared, any feeling he is having is OKAY. BUT, it is not okay to be rude and disrespectful because he is feeling mad, sad, frustrated, scared, etc. I told him if he is rude and disrespectful he will be disciplined for that, because it's not okay. On the other hand, if he says "you are making me mad, angry, frustrated", he will not be in any trouble at all, AND I can help him through that. So anytime I hear any of the bad stuff, I stop him, and say "hey, I know you are really angry, and I can really understand why you are angry (giving empathy first, helps calm), but I don't believe you hate me, and it's not okay to say that either. I think that if you think about it for a minute, you will realize that you are frustrated with me, or angry with me, and if you are, it is okay to say that, but it is not okay to say you hate me".
This takes a ton of reminders, and it's something you have to work on constantly, but I really think it's pretty common that kids that say hateful things, really don't have any other words to use. They don't know how to put what they are feeling, into something that is acceptable to say. So we have to teach them how to do this. It won't come easy, so just keep trying and trying. I tried everything else I could think of for the nastiness that spilled out of my sons mouth, and this has worked better then anything.

I also think this is beyond ADHD, but just make sure you see someone qualified to deal with many childhood issues. Make a list of all the things that you are worried about with your son, big and small, as some things may be important keys to finding the correct diagnosis, even if they aren't the most major issues you are dealing with right now. Also be sure to mention that your son struggles with transitions (in from outside, going to bed).

The food issues, and this is just my opinion, and others may not agree, but this is one thing I choose not to battle over. My son also was not gaining weight well and can't sit still. I gave up that battle at one point and just made sure the food was available to him, but didn't force him to sit. He ate better, gained weight better, and it wasn't a battle that was all that important to me. Drives my mother nuts that we don't have dinner at the table, but she doesn't realize that "quality talking time" wasn't coming in the middle of all the fighting. Something to think about anyway :).

Good luck!