ADHD and M.E.

 

Hi all

I am looking for some help .. I have both ADHD and ME .. its hell wanting to be on the go and wanting to stop all the time .. I dont know anyone else with this mix .. does anyone know where there is any info / forums / books etc .. I dont need medical help because I have a good specialist ( who said i have the worst of both and understands how they interact .. i think fight ) and I am on concerta xl for the ADHD .. Just for fun I also have 2 ADHD kids .. I would love some pointers .. I live in the U.K. Ta Moon6

Moon6, forgive my ignorance but what is ME?  -Gettingagrip-

Hi

M.E. is Myalgic Encephalomyelitis it is somtimes called Chronic Fatigue Syndrom.. You know what its like to have ADHD ..

imaging all of that .. with another condition that's SCREAMING at you to stop. … rest. … find a dark hole and crawl in NOW.… You also get pain with it.… I used to love to walk the dogs miles. … Now  every 100yds slowly walked I have to stop and rest. … and all I wanted to do was run and jump, etc.... It is so frustrating ahhhhhhhhh My brain with ADHD goes at turbo speed in all directions but my M.E. brain thinks SSSSSSSSSOOOOOOOOOOOOO slow like its trudging though mud. … plod..plod .… With ADHD you love the buzz (most of the time) but with M.E. I am super sensitive to lights / smells / crowds. … so shopping is out.…
I want to do things so much, then my ADHD is driving me forward then my M.E. stops it all. I feel as if I am having to balance my whole life. If I am due to go out even for just a meal I have to plan the week in advance so I don't overdo it (ADHD -- big sulks) When I go out ADHD goes YES.… M.E. has a big strop and wont play.… I end up going home to crash in bed.… I am not fit to do anything but recover -- this will take up to 4 days.…
This is why I am looking for some help/info. … some Drs believe in both. … some dont. … when I go to the Drs I see 1 Dr if it to do with my adhd as he understands the condition but dose not believe in ME... and another Drs for ME but believe ADHD is for males and is outgrown at 18!!! I am female and staring at 40!!! ..  
  Dose this explain my dilemma a bit better. … please help if you can
  Thanks Moon6

 Ahhhhhhhhh nobody has this combo .. I had really hoped that someone would know ... If you do please get in touch .. thanks for reading .. ta  Moon6

Hi Moon! I just noticed that you said ADHD and M.E,  thinking you were saying ME. WOW, alot of what you wrote, applies to me also! Some of it that I feel is less severe, but is still there to the extent that I'm aware of it. Lets see.... the feeling of just wanting to GO and do something fun or anything, but not being able to, sensitivity to light or crowds. And pain! I thought it was just cronic back pain from an old injury, but now sometimes every bone in my body seems to hurt. I still love to take walks, but can't walk as long. We live in Florida, near many beaches, and sand is soooo painful to trudge through after a while. I stop and rest than go on. I'm 47 and my hubbys 52. He always outlasts me! I was DX'ed W/ADD alittle over a yr. ago, but now even my Doc is thinking its ADHD. What ever it is , it SUCKS!

Cronic Fatigue Syndrome is reconigized in the U.S, and I had a friend who had it real bad, but not with ADD/ADHD. I have mentioned certain things to my Doc, but I don't think she understand the physical suffering. I to sleep alot even though  my brain says"lets get moving"! Also Florida has alot of great Docs and they now know that at the "magic age of 18", male or female, you don't outgrow it. I can see why your so frustrated! I just saw my Doc 4 days ago, but go back every month for my meds(adderall helps me focus, but then I seem to hit that "muddy spot that you described). I will DEFINATLY mention this when I go back, and I'll print it out for proof. Sorry I can't help you now, but I'm glad I read this. Your not the only one, and I'll get some feedback that I hope can help both of us! Hang in there I'll post what I can find out by the end of the month. ( if I could afford to , I'd go tomorrow).

 

ahhhhhhhh just typed loads and then lost it in space ahhhhhh ..

Hi thanks for your reply .. its so hard that some people just dont get it that you are driven to go and also driven to stop ..

Walking is a good way to tell because in your head you want to go for a long walk .. mose ADHDs out walk mose people .. you walk about 100 yds the all toy want to do is stop .. the frustrating thing is you want to walk .. Mt hubby is 56 and he dose now out walk me now .. I used to walk MILES now its about 200 yds .. walking was my way of relaxing .. You also lose what little coordination you had .. I walk into walls doors all the time .. my head says go round but my limbs just cannot do it !! The pain is hard to explain .. I decribe it as if your BONEs hurt the pain is deep in the bones .. Your body temperature just goes loopy one min you are cold .. bone cold .. then roasting .. skins on fire .. all in 10 mins !!

... This is hard to explaine to GPs because with ME there are time you seem to sleep all the time .. its not that you want to .. you HAVE to your body makes you .. If you have had depression .. they just put it down to that  .. most people with ME are so frustrated .... Some get depressed .. hell wouldent you !! The wat to manage ME is to regulate Ha with ADHD .. umm I find that very hard ..

will chat more .. got to feed kids ..

 Hang on in there .. Moon6

Latina

Would you like some info ..

Moon6

Thanks Moon6, I sure would! My coordination is also bad. I was really aware of it tonight. Some of y'all know that I have a 22 yr. old Amazon Parrot, and that I take her to the beach at night. My "little Diva" works for tips. She LOVES everyone and can be trusted with anyone, except in our house. Only I "her mommy & mate" can handle her there. She's sooo spoiled!

Anyway tonight I really noticed how bad my coordination  was! And also the pain was bad. I know what you mean about loosing what coordination you have. I was constantly bumping my leg on the concrete wall. If the pain weren't there, I could have avoided some of those "direct hits! The same thing happends at home, especially if I've been sitting for a long time. sofas,chairs walls.....whatevers in my way.  You coulden't have described the pain any better, deep in the bones. And the body temp. I thought I was just going through "The Change", but it's probably more than that. I drive my hubby CRAZY! One minute I turn the air up.....minutes later down again. And sometimes I feel so hot, I check the thermostate, b/c I think our central f**ked up, when I find that it's not only running, but at 70degrees!....Oh yes, I would love to know more. Thanks Moon

Hi Latina - add
I am just putting a short note up as I Have got a bad dose of tonsillitis so feel C***  and just so you know that I am not ignoring you!!! It may take a few days till I get back to you I hope that's ok ? The worst bit is I am on antibiotics and every day I am on them it sets my M.E. back by about a week ? ahhhhhhhhhhhhh so I am going back 10 weeks .. So sorry about this .. hang on in there .. I hope to be back to reply to you in the next few days ..  Moon6
 

Hi I was in tears when I read this ... Moon6

PS .. I hope its OK to put this on ..

Sadness, Frustration, and Depression

To all my friends on Sasyfras and WECAN

Winston Churchill used to talk about depression as the little black dog that followed him, sometimes far away, sometimes getting closer.

I think all PWCs (people with CFIDS/CFS/M.E.) know that little black dog. I do. The irrationality of thoughts of suicide. The feeling that there are no windows, there are no doors.

We who are PWCs struggle with three emotions: sadness, frustration, and depression -- they are not the same, and the answer to them is not the same. But when we talk about them, doctors and friends seem to think they are the same.

Secondary depression is common in this disease, not merely because it is depressING, but also because the disease affects seratonin levels. So many of us take an SSRI or other medication to help keep the levels from being depleted.

There is also a vicious circle with sleep. Sleep disruption, the experience of unrefreshed sleep, is one of the main hallmarks of this disease (along with significant cognitive dysfunction and enormous fatigue). Studies have shown that alpha waves intrude inappropriately when we try to sleep; we never reach the levels of deep sleep.

It is in deep sleep that seratonin is replenished. So there again, a reason for low levels. But SSRI's tend to worsen the sleep disruption -- so many PWC's also take small doses of anti-depressants such as Doxepin or Klonopin -- doses so small that in some cases you need the liquid form and an eyedropper. It helps with the sleep.

However, since most of us also have problems with neurally mediated hypotension (NMH), we have to be careful about anything that lowers our blood pressure. So you can't take just anything at night, and you have to take the smallest dose that works. Hence beginning with the eyedropper.

NMH can lead to what feels like panic attacks -- but they are not. People with NMH cannot stand still for any length of time -- their blood pressure drops and they'll pass out. Standing in line, particularly in the heat; taking a shower -- these can trigger the NMH reaction and the patient feels a sudden, overwhelming need to SIT DOWN RIGHT NOW. Which feels like panic. It is a sense of panic -- your body knows if you don't do something you will fall. SSRI's won't help that type of panic; only treatment for, and adjustments for, the NMH can do any good.

We can be afraid of places like shopping malls -- but not because of depression or some other psychological reason. Rather, our balance is very bad (a quick test for CFIDS involves trying to stand with your eyes closed and one foot in front of the other, arms outstretched; PWC's can't hold it for a second). We are capable of lurching into things and people. Bright eyes hurt our eyes; loud noises are also painful. And if you get confused easily, you can get lost. Then, in shopping centers, you find yourself having to stand in a long line, still. It is all indescribably unpleasant; again, that feeling of panic, have to get out of here -- but it is not irrational in any way. It is a direct response to the symptoms of the illness. (One solution is to use a cane; a better solution is a wheelchair.)

Exercise helps depression -- but if you are very ill with this disease, you cannot exercise. We shift from resting to anaerobic metablism in two minutes. Exercise brings on a terrible relapse the next day, sometimes for a week. If it is primary depression, exercise will make you better. If it is CFIDS, exercise makes you very much worse. [Ironic that many of the PWCs I knew, such as myself, were physically active -- aerobics, nautilus, downhill skiing. Any of that would make me feel better. How I wish I COULD!]

I am being treated for, and have made adjustments for, NMH, so I don't have those panics any more. And I take take medication to prevent depression caused by low seratonin; I take medication to help me sleep. I don't have the irrational, unspeakable, CHEMICAL depression that I experienced at first with the disease.

But I still get sad. And that is natural. Of course I am sad. I am sad when my husband is on a business trip to a resort in Florida and normally I would have gone with him, but I was too sick to go. I am sad that when I do go with him, I am not the energetic, stylish person that was ME.

I am sad when someone asks if I have finished a research paper I started three years ago, and I have to say no -- I have not been able to work on any research in three years. I am sad when I go to a Villanova game and see the students there, and realize that there aren't very many left who would have known me, and in another year or so, there won't be any at all.

I am sad when I hear about an inaugaral conference in institutional economics at Washington University in St. Louis. I would have gone. I probably would have given a paper. But I can't even go. It is out of the question. I see it slipping away from me.

I am sad when there is a job opening I had my eye on for a long time, and I cannot apply.

I am sad because another ski season came and went, and I couldn't go. And because I didn't go, neither did the rest of the family, which also makes me sad.

I'm sad because the sun is finally out again and there's a mild wind blowing and my Irish setter is bouncing off the wall she's so bored, and I'd love to take her for a walk to the park and throw the ball with her. No can do.

I am sad when I hear all the stories of those who are suffering with this disease, and do not have the resources I am fortunate to have -- a family, a husband with a paying job, health insurance, long-term disability. I am sad when I read of yet another PWC who has lost the battle, committed suicide.

And I'm frustrated. There's so much I WANT to do, so little I CAN do. I want to be well! I get used to it, accept it, make the best of my life here on Internet -- and then something happens, and I want to SCREAM that I want to be well. I want to WALK. I want to DRIVE. I want to DANCE. I want to feel normal, just for one day.

And the PAIN days. I am lucky not to have too many of those. The constant ache gets to me, but it is the days with the pain, when you have to close the curtains and turn out the lights and just lie there, listening to a movie and imagining the picture. Just surviving through that day to the next. You spit at the wind and scream I don't want this any more!

And I'm frustrated when I have to constantly face my disability, constantly describe what it is I can't do, constantly worry about missing a form or a phone call, to keep getting the 3/5 of my former income from a disability plan I paid into, along with my employer, for a decade. I'm frustrated when I see on tv some thoughtless young announcer chirping that aerobic dancing can cure chronic fatigue syndrome. My God, child, don't you understand how badly I want to exercise?

I'm frustrated when I go to a ballgame and they've sold the handicapped seats to highrollers and an usher yells at me for just sitting in the nearest empty seat. I'm frustrated that I had to miss events at the Olympics because the accomodations for wheelchairs were not good, and some distances were just too far for me.

I'm frustrated that I have to ask family members to do things I used to do for myself. That I have to depend on others to go anywhere because I can't drive. That I'm 45 years old and less independent than my 75-year-old mother.

It is okay to be sad, and it is okay to be frustrated.

But if I dwell on the sadness and the frustration; if I think too much about "what if" I never get any better; what if I get worse -- well, SSRI's are not going to fix that. If I worry too much over some of the situations I know about, some of the people I care about -- it's too much, too overwhelming.

Being on-line, on discussion lists for people with this disease, really helps. Being able to SAY it outloud, to other people who understand, really helps. Really helps.

And there's something about internet -- I see all my friends out there on the 'net, so compassionante and kind, so interesting and varied -- all of you -- I would never have known you. I enjoy YOUR company, and then I don't hate myself so much for having CFIDS. Because you have it, and I like you. If I can like you, then I can still like me.

And then I can accept that this is me for a while. I don't know how long, and it's not my job to worry about that. This is where I am, and it's not such a bad place; I have never had such good friends in all of my life.

It helps greatly to know that if I hit a really dark place -- and you do -- it just GETS to you sometimes -- maybe the bad chemical days and then the frustrationn/sadness days slam into each other, or you do take a peek behind that curtain marked "future" and are frightened by what you see -- but I know, I trust, that you guys can kick me out of that mood. You can rein me in. Pull me away from the edge. As we used to say MANY years ago, "talk me down".

Downright depression needs therapy: medicine, and talking out. You guys are better therapists than anybody I know. (Lisa once said that she quit going to therapists when she figured out she was spending $100 an hour to explain CFIDS to a psychologist -- HA!)

If you feel suicidal IN ANY WAY -- CALL somebody. Or write someone on Internet. Join a discussion list and make friends you trust, who you can count on when it hits you at 3 in the morning. If you have CFIDS or FMS or post-poliio syndrome or GWS, join us on Sasy. That's why we started it. Because we lost Joan Irvine -- the little black dog caught up with her, and we lost her. We named it for her on-line handle, Sasyfras. We do not want to lose anyone else to this damned disease.

As for sadness -- I think it's okay to be a little sad. In fact, it's normal. A lot of what I do -- like this, or watch movies, or be with my family -- distracts me from the sadness, but I think the sadness will always be with me. On good days I trade it in for inner peace instead.

Hard for a very active person to accept quiet, but I'm learning.

But the frustration -- well, the best medicine for the frustration is Internet. For me at least. Sasyfras and WECAN. Moving that mountain one bucket at a time.

I was going to write about the specific people I have met here on Internet in the past two and a half years, and what they mean to me, but I can't do it. Too many, too much.

I guess I can try: Phyllis, Sue, Lisa, Kay, Julie, Michael, Paula, Deborah, Margaret, Suellen, jpChris, Doc Elaine, DocAudio, Karajaal, Anita (from the old days), Bonnie, Johnobf, Rona, Kara, Kathy, Cyndi, Sharon, Gayle, JudithW, JudyRN, Frank, Cindy, Gary, Gerry, Wanda, JimmyS -- so many of you -- and this is only the PWCs, and I know I have not remembered all.

This is what keeps the little black dog away: my family -- my husband Bob, watching my children Eric and Carolyn, our furry family members Maggie and Kelly and Skidmore -- And my Internet family, all of you.

I can be sad, I can be frustrated, and I can be depressed. But as long as you are there, I will be here. Count on it.

We must all put our hands together, symbolically, and promise to each other, WE WILL NOT GO THROUGH DOOR B. We will not choose suicide as an option; we must promise it to each other. I promise this to you. Now you promise this to me.


© Mary Schweitzer, 1998
schweit2@ix.netcom.com

oh my gosh! The amount of force it takes me just to get out of
bed each morning is ridiculous. Some days I feel like I'm too
tired to walk into the kitchen to make breakfast. Most times
when I'm sitting down, the thought of stanging up is
overwhelming. I have little energy, but I know deep inside I'm a
high energy person. But somehow my motion is being
supressed. I can't finish anything. I have no energy to do most
everyday activities. I have a hard time getting myself to get in a
car to drive to the store a couple blocks away. I love going
places! There are so many things I want to do, but I can't. I have
no energy. I'm 19, but feel 70 years old. I don't really
experience much pain, just discomfort and stiffness in the neck
and lower back and mild headaches from time to time. I know I
have ADD, and I have problems with depression, but there is
something else wrong here. I don't like to be lazy. If I could, I
would do 1,000 things a day. I don't know what to do. I don't
know if this would be due to chronic fatigue or fibromyalgia. yummypinkblobs38267.0334953704I want to think that all of these disorders are linked to one single
problem: low serotonin levels. So really, think of all these
illness as one disorder, and illnesses like ADD, OCD and
depression as symptoms of this one problem. Everyone is
different, so not everyone experiences the same problems.
Hmmm.....?Sorry to hear your have tonsillitis. That sucks! I hope you get well soon
Hi Latina-add and yummypinkblobs
I am feeling a bit better, not so chipmunk today. What kind of things would you like me to did up? Its just that what I have may be ok or not ... The frustrating thing is that some books / articles are spot on and others are so off they are frozen.. I have found a few books really good.. you read a bit then go ahhhhhhhhhhh that's just like me !!! I have given it to hubby to read, as he sometimes just dose not get it .. like why my cheeks are red and burning and I am typing with frozen fingers my tummy is hot and my back is stiff and cold !! it is so hard to explain.. And what really takes the bisket is if I get angry it makes all my symptoms 10 times worse so I hate to lose my temper !!
Moon6

[QUOTE=yummypinkblobs]I want to think that all of these disorders are linked to one single
problem: low serotonin levels. So really, think of all these
illness as one disorder, and illnesses like ADD, OCD and
depression as symptoms of this one problem. Everyone is
different, so not everyone experiences the same problems.
Hmmm.....?[/QUOTE]

Hi .. I think there should be more info on low serotonin .

But M.E. is not that.

Depresion can mimic M.E. and visa versa .. I also have had depression in the past, it was hard to get a Dr to consider M.E. because of my depression history. I had to explain that .. I want to go shopping but I just can not physically do it !! not that I dont want to go shopping. One of the hardest things was due to ADHD and M.E. i would get VERY frustrated, there was times I was a bit depressed aswell .. hell who wouldent !!  

Dose that make it any clearer for you ? or just confused you more?

Moon6

Yeah, I think my problem is depression, not chronic fatigue. I've
been taking 5 htp for the past few days, and my mood and
energy have risen considerably. But I think that chronic fatigue
is linked to serotonin, but then maybe I'm wrong. Most of your
serotonin in stored in your intestines, not your brain. I thought
that was weird. yummypinkblobs38269.5484027778

Hi Moon, glad to hear your feeling better. All of this info is making my head spin, but armed with what you and Yummypinkblobs have said, I just may stand a chance at making the Doc understand.

And did you say books? My husband NEVER understands them even when something is right there "IN HIS FACE"! He'll say " that could apply to anyone! ( Right, everyone has problems going shopping and just can't physcially do it ). No there to lazy! For me, somedays the thought of washing my car overwelms me and I really shut down. There are so many things to have to deal with, that if you don't have it, it's hard to comprehend.

Hi all

I am starting to feel better ... at last .. ok because it was ages ago are any of you still wanting any info? Let me know .... take care Moon6

Hi

Just to say Hi ..

Moon 6

 


Enter Your Email below
to claim your Free Book



 

Copyright© 2006 ADHDNews.com. All rights reserved