My son was dx bipolar at 5yo. He would be very hyper and of couse the first thought was ADHD--but....his attention was always good at home----when not in a complete manic state. It was good at spec ed preschool also.
He was dx first with anxiety at 4yo and put on prozac. Not good!! He always slept---but not as much as normal. He would get to bed at 11pm and up by 4am EVERY morning--until taken off prozac. He broke his elbow while on prozac, had surgery. 2 hours after surgery we got home. He jumped out of the van and climbed the same tree he fell from. He was wild---still----only 2 hours after surgery, recovering from anethesia, and a full arm cast on!!
While on prozac--he talked more, sang more, etc. I thought it was just helped him. Nope---he was hypomanic/manic. He was talking so fast--he was not completing words or phrases.
He was on meds for bipolar from 5y-6yo. He then got dx with ASD along with the bp. I stopped all meds--cold turkey. (that wasn't fun) We started going to a DAN dr and started vitamins, nutritional tests, etc. He stabled out a bit for about 2 months. Then the raging started again. When he used to rage only 10-20 min-----he was up to an hour without meds and 30 min of face down on the floor restraining.
By the way----it doesn't matter how long a rage lasts---its the intensity of it.
After he attacked our psych for over an hour---I put him back on risperdal. Much better!! His raging is rare now and if he does---it's over in 20 min. He has not had any episodes of hyperactivity in months!!! I beleive that his hyperness that he does get is from anxiety and overstimuation.
The difference between ADHD and Bipolar hyperactiviy is(I think)---ADHD is a constant on the go and bipolar---it cycles. My son only had cycling hyperness. After completely K---he has inattention--but only when he's in the regualr classroom with 18 kids. I think its all anxiety---not ADD. When he's in his one on one or group sessions----he's great!!
By Manic, what do you mean? I am asking because I'm not sure if my son has any of the symptoms of being manic. I would very much appreciate any answers. Thank you.Did your son have any other symptoms such as seperation anxiety, decreased need for sleep, or hour long rages? My daughter doesn't have any of those. You are right, it is so hard to distinquish between the two. I just don't want to medicate her for something she doesn't need. Thanks for the help.Kidsanddogs, did you know that stimulants like Metadate and Concerta can affect mood, even with a mood stabilizer on board? Have you ever tried her on a mood stabilizer without a stimulant?No, we've not tried that. I am keeping a log of all the moods, etc. I am concerned about how hyper she is. It has gotten worse since she has been off the abilify. I guess there is not a "textbook" description of a bipolar or adhd child that I can get my answers from. That is so hard for me. It is heart breaking to watch your child go through all this and to wonder what the siblings must think. It is good to know there are other families out there that understand the frustration. Thanks for the suggesstion.Sometimes hyperactivity is not ADHD but mania associated with bipolar disorder. It is hard to separate it all out. I'd personally want to try her on a mood stabilizer alone and then add in an atypical antipsychotic like Abilify if needed. Nix the stimulants -- they don't seem to be helping anyway.
BTW, I have two children -- 13-year-old son and 11-year-old daughter -- who have working dxes of bipolar disorder. They both had manic reactions to SSRIs. We are still tweaking doses, but they are much improved on a combo of Lamictal and Depakote.
My 8 year old daughter has always been "difficult" even as an infant. She is happy when things are going her way but is mean when things aren't. She was dx with bipolar/adhd at age 5. She has been on Abilify, Lithium, and Metadate for a long time. I guess they helped but she was still very moody and got mad very easily. We have gone through 4 doctors. The latest didn't really think she was bipolar since she didn't really show the mania or depression. I really feel like she is adhd with odd. We took her off bipolar meds and just have her on Concerta 36mg. Her moods are about the same but she is so hyper all the time. We've tried different stimulants and dosages but all seem to effect her the same (very hyper). I've read the Bipolar Child book and still have questions. She has trouble falling asleep but stays asleep and gets up easily in the morning. She has never had the long rages that they speak about. She can get mad quick when I tell her no but she gets over it fast. She has never had any seperation anxiety either. I am just so confused. Does anyone else have a child that is so hard to please?I wish there was a magic answer out there for you. I also have a soon to be 5 year old that was recently diagnosed with bipolar. The main difference that I did notice was the mood changes they call them rapid cycling. The doctors told me that they do not really normally see like ups and downs with children and bipolar they mainly have rapid cycles which just means their moods change rapidly throughout the day and on a drop of a dime. This is one of the many diseases that are very hard to reconize I think because it does look like several other conditions out there. I also questioned bipolar or adhd with odd with my son. But we finally came to a med called risperdal mixed with focalin strattera and for some reason this combo has worked great for him. Good Luck If it's ADHD, by all means try alternatives. If it's bipolar (usually if a kid is violent) he will need meds or the bipolar cycling will get worse. ADHD is not progressive, however bipolar disorder is. It gets worse without meds to stop the cycling. Unfortuantely, alternatives don't work well for early onset bipolar. ODD is present to an extreme degree in early onset bipolar. I believe the ODD rate is almost 99% in early onset bipolar. A "no" is enough to trigger a hole in the wall. That's not ADHD. Good luck. MomWI38913.8276736111[QUOTE=kidsanddogs]My 8 year old daughter has always been "difficult" even as an infant. She is happy when things are going her way but is mean when things aren't. She was dx with bipolar/adhd at age 5. She has been on Abilify, Lithium, and Metadate for a long time. I guess they helped but she was still very moody and got mad very easily. We have gone through 4 doctors. The latest didn't really think she was bipolar since she didn't really show the mania or depression. I really feel like she is adhd with odd. We took her off bipolar meds and just have her on Concerta 36mg. Her moods are about the same but she is so hyper all the time. We've tried different stimulants and dosages but all seem to effect her the same (very hyper). I've read the Bipolar Child book and still have questions. She has trouble falling asleep but stays asleep and gets up easily in the morning. She has never had the long rages that they speak about. She can get mad quick when I tell her no but she gets over it fast. She has never had any seperation anxiety either. I am just so confused. Does anyone else have a child that is so hard to please?[/QUOTE]
My 9year old daughter is the same way. Happy as long as things are going her way but furious when there not. Throws temper tantrums bigger than her 3 year old sister. Very difficult, argues with me about almost everything. I've talked till I'm blue in the face!!
She was being treated for adhd with adderall xr then we tried focalin xr, these just made her more irritable. We are trying her now with no meds to see if it's the meds or if there is something more wrong. I think if this doesn't work, he's going to send her to couseling. I asked him if she could be odd or bipolar? He did not really know.
It is so good to know that I'm not the only one who lives like this. I'm here if you need to talk. Good luck!!
[QUOTE=cutieheather24]I wish there was a magic answer out there for you. I also have a soon to be 5 year old that was recently diagnosed with bipolar. The main difference that I did notice was the mood changes they call them rapid cycling. The doctors told me that they do not really normally see like ups and downs with children and bipolar they mainly have rapid cycles which just means their moods change rapidly throughout the day and on a drop of a dime. This is one of the many diseases that are very hard to reconize I think because it does look like several other conditions out there. I also questioned bipolar or adhd with odd with my son. But we finally came to a med called risperdal mixed with focalin strattera and for some reason this combo has worked great for him. Good Luck [/QUOTE]
I thought I read somewhere that you have your kid on Omega 3, Body Balance, and Ostprocare. Is this true? I guess this wouldn't work on your 5 yr old (being so young), but you might want to try him on it later, if your other child did well by this, maybe your 5 yr old will too. I do like that you try other ways than meds to help your children.
I can really relate to your story. There has always been something "different" about him but I always kept thinking he would grow out of it. Once he started kindergarten it really was more apparent. My son is 6 1/2 yrs and getting ready to start first grade. We are basically just getting started on our journey. We have both a psychiatrist and a psychologist. He has been diagnosed with adhd but I know there is more to it. He started with 18 mg of Concerta. The first couple of days it seemed to settle him down a little bit but then many of his behaviors got much worse- irritablity, not listening, hyper, but also there were other stressful things going on at the time too. So right now he is off Concerta for 1 week. We go back for another appt soon and we may double the dose.
He tests very high for ODD. He is violent when he does not get his way, argues with adults and rules, deliberately annoys and bullies. But I also wonder if there could be a bipolar disorder. There is a history of depression, adhd, bipolar in my husbands family. And currently, I am suspecting my husband is bipolar. We are having marital problems and he is even living in a different state because all of a sudden he decided to move across the country whether I agreed or not. I definitely have my hands full.
I hope you find some answers.
Kids don't exhibit clear mania and depression when they have bipolar disorder. Mania looks a lot more like rageful, angry, sometimes even violent ADHD, but stims don't help and can make it worse. You may want to check out a few sites to see what I mean. Dr. Papalos is the author of "The Bipolar Child" (a fantastic read--I'd at least get it from the library). Any doctor who thinks kids show clear mania and depression (and need to for bipolar) doesn't really know a lot about it. You also need to factor in the family history. Mood disorders and substance abuse are big red flags for bipolar. Suicide attemps in the family also are. Here are the websites.
MomWI38913.2445138889My son did not experience any sleeping for days. He did though go through where before getting his meds straighten he would have hour long rages where you would have to wrap your arms around him and hold him there so he did not hurt himself or others. And during this rage he was very strong. As far as the manic stages were concerned I think those are just like when they become overly active and very hyper but then in a minnute could change to a rage which is like the depression stage for an adult its just different in all kids.