NEWBIE HERE IN DESPERATION! | ADHD Information
I have noticed that caffiene and sugar make her worse ( I NEVER buy twinkies or anything of the sort, which could have caused that binge) but in any event, I hadn't thought ofthe sensitivities you mentioned and will be looking at that! Her body IS changing! That is for sure.....scary!
I will look into that section! Thanks for the advice!
Hello all!
I have an 11 year old daughter with ADHD and I am really at my wits end. I can't let her go anywhere or do anything without her totally humiliating us! Last night she slept over at a dear friend of mine's house with her daughter. Well....evidently she has a crush on their older son. Well there she was, waking up their 4 year old son at 2am to help her hunt for their 13 yr old boy. The dad was out of town, but the mom was sleeping and my dd woke her up by the "hunt" with a flashlight in her face. She was not real happy (I wouldn't be either!) I don't think she ever went to sleep. To top it off she also ate a whole box of twinkies while she was there. I talked with her and discussed why what she did was unacceptable, but she just looked at me. I feel like what I say does not go through. My dh and I are at our wits end with this kind of stuff. I am so frustrated! My friend was nice about it, but I could tell she was frustrated. What in the world do I do? She is currently on Concerta and is on the highest dosage and I am thinking of swapping the meds to see if that helps some, but we ARE active parents...not just relying on the meds. We have 3 other children and they are respectful, honest, and would definitely NEVER do that at someone else's home. My 9 year old dd went as well and is sometimes embarrassed by her sister, and I think this was one of those times! Anyone have any advice for this mom at the end of her rope? HELP!!!!
Have you ever considered she may have food sensitivities? All those Twinkies couldn't have been a good combo (many kids with disorders also have sensitivities to caesin -- in dairy products, wheat/gluten, corn syrup, artificial dyes).... you might want to check out the Alternatives to Meds section of this board -- many diet mods can be easy to work in (and not a problem even if on medication) as well as adding in supplements.... I'm sure her body is changing some too as she approaches the pre-teen years....JP, has she always been a little extreme, or is this something new? If it is new, Im with CR12345mr, in that it's kid stuff, hormonal, they do go over the edge. If she's more intense normally anyway, she might become more intensly impulsive. Doesn't mean she needs a neuropsych, or that she's way over ADHD. Maybe it's time to re-evalute her meds, get a physical make sure everything else is ok phsyically. The teen years are tough in another way too. I know she's not there yet but she's getting close, especially if she's precocious. The brain is changing, and there is a change that takes place that makes kids do stupid stuff, and when you ask them why they did it, they say they don't know. Well, it's valid, they really don't know. I was a pretty good kid, but did stuff to this day I don't know why, and am totally forever embarrassed about. Logical thinking and judgement skills are affected with this change. There is something neurologically developmentally that causes this and it's very normal at these years. I'll have to look it up. But if she's been a pretty good kid up to now, that might be some of what's to it.
OK, I'll be the odd man out this time. To me, it sounds like normal, crazy 11-year-old stuff. I remember sleepovers at that age and doing crazy things late at night and eating massive amounts of junk food. BTW, I don't think parents should ever expect to sleep when hosting a sleepover! Just my $.02.Has it ever crossed your mind that she may not have ADHD? Do you feel that's her only problem? Who diagnosed her and when was her last evaluation? As kids get older, more stuff shows up and you can often get a clearer picture. I recommend a NeuroPsych, far and above a plain Psycologist, a Pediatrician, or even a Psychiatrist. NeuroPsychs do testing and can find ADHD and beyond.You haven't been to my house then, MomWI! The kids often stayed up till 7 am! Your 11-year olds may not do that, but that's four to gabillions of other normal kids who get goofy when they are not at home. I sure did. I haven't seen a neuropsych yet, and no one has even suggested it. That is humiliating hypochondriactic and embarrasing that all we know is this one incident that JP brought on, and you are making over-the-top assumptions from it.
I've had four elevin year olds. No, they don't do that. No child of any age does that if something isn't up. I've had a good 75 sleepovers in my life, from four kids, and never has another child, not my own come into my room with a flashlight. I also slept well, except when the kids made too much noise, giggling and stuff. That was about it, even with the worst of them. I agree with the mom that it's something to worry about. I'm wondering if this child has insomnia or if she just stayed up all night due to the sleepover, but, again, even during sleepovers, kids eventually do fall asleep, even if it's at 1-2am. MomWI38926.7453009259Calico, you're right. For one thing, I do insist the kids go to sleep, but they tend to fall asleep themselves. If that flashlight/waking up three year old is a stand alone incident, no, it's not a big deal. If this child has worrisome behaviors a lot, I'm assuming she does, then it's just another symptom of the problem. I believe it's better to be safe than sorry. Naturally one incident doesn't mean anything by itself. People who post here tend to have kids with fairly extreme behaviors though. I do think that any child who is dxd. with ADHD and isnt' tons better on meds and with therapy in conjunction with the meds should be totally tested by a NeuroPsych. It's not being a hypochondriac--your child's entire life is at stake, with the wrong diagnosis. And, unfortunately, there are many misdiagnoses. If you post just on this board, maybe you won't see them because many parents are afraid to or just don't think about looking into other things. If you post on Conduct Disorders, for example, and see how many kids were misdiagnosed, usually with ADHD first but other things too, you want to be careful that you have the right thing. This particular child may only have ADHD, but she may not. She's already 11. I stand by being careful rather than "waiting and seeing." By the time they're 18, you blew your chance. IMO nothing is more foolish than never going back for a check up. You get a diagnosis at age five, and never questioned it or had someone else evaluate your chld again, and she's 12 and acting out, that's like allowing a kid with diabetes to never get checked. Since they are biologically based disorders, it's the same thing. Make sure your child is the best he/she can be and work from there. Keep on top of it until you can't anymore. And, of course, anyone who likes can ignore the advice too. We put down our advice from our own experiences and our personalities--I tend to be cautious. If I hadn't been, my son would still be on tons of meds with either ADHD/ODD or bipolar as his diagnosis. I'm glad I didn't give up. In their guts, parents know if it's more than ADHD, and those parents should explore it and a NeuroPsych will actually run many performance tests rather than just snapping his/her fingers and handing out meds. To me, that's far more intensive. There are no bloodtests yet, but the professionals can at least run batteries of tests that point to certain disorders. I can't imagine why any parent wouldn't want the big picture, but, hey, that's me
This child is on a high dose of Concerta and her NINE year old sister is embarassed by her behaviors--so this is not a stand alone incident, and ADHD interventions aren't working. MomWI38927.2340509259
[QUOTE=calicorose]That is humiliating hypochondriactic and embarrasing that all we know is this one incident that JP brought on, and you are making over-the-top assumptions from it.[/QUOTE]In English, please?
Walking into an adult's bedroom in the middle of the night and shining a flashlight in their face is way out of social boundaries, even for ADHD kids. This kid has shown she is not ready to handle visits to other homes without supervision.
Hi Karen. Unfortunately, unless you have REALLY valid medical reasons for not taking medication, you are already setting yourself up for some flack. I used to think it was harsh when experts told people, if you aren't going to medicate, why do you need a diagnosis? Why do you need a diagnosis for your daughter? [QUOTE=jpmomof4]I know this mom is WAY more laid back than me, so that may be why.
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That is probably precisely why your daughter may have gone overboard in the heat of the moment, so to speak. If that's the case, you have no reason to be embarassed. ADHD need structure and supervision.Just to add a post here...I am a newbie too. My daughter, age 7, has just been tested for CAPD, which mimics ADD/ADHD. The tests were negative for auditory problems but they are suggesting that she be further tested for ADHD. I work for the school system she goes to and I KNOW what they will recommend: meds. My husband and I are NOT wanting to go that route. It took a year for anyone to finally wake up and listen to us about our daughter. I'm just as frustrated as the OP here too. We are very proactive parents and want only the best for our daughter...who here doesn't? I know there is advice aplenty here and if anyone should want to share with us, I know we'd surely appreciate it.
*sigh*
OK....let me clarify. She always does impulsive things, but not normally this over the top. She did pop her head into the adults room, but I got out of her that she did not actually go into the room. She was just looking for the "friend". She is on concerta, but it does not seem to be covering as well now and I have put in a call to the dr. to not only evaluate the meds, but to talk to him about some of this. I appreciate all the comments and a lot of them make sense. We work really hard with her and are scheduled and regimented, but it seems that when she is free from us, she doesn't know what to do with her pent up energy/excitement. I think this was the majority of the problem. It is true that the thought crossed my mind...."Where was the mother", but I know that I host s.o. here and when I do I make them get in bed with lights out at 12am. That is my rule. I usually don't get a lot of flack after. I know this mom is WAY more laid back than me, so that may be why. Thank you all for responding!
NoTellin, it is wonderful that you have been working so hard, and Meg and us others too, to find alternative methods that are actually helping children. Even if an alternative method just takes the edge off of the frustrations and difficulties of an ADHD person, it is well worth doing. You both write that you have accomplished even more than that, and thank you for sharing your experiences. I, and a ton of other posters really appreciate it.
calicorose38927.8955787037My daughter has had an IEP since preschool...the first "label" was SDD (significantly developmently delayed) up until this past school term when her IEP was re evaluated and she was placed, not promoted, into Grade 2 with the label SLD (specific learning disabilities). As for "needing" a diagnosis for my daughter...no, I don't NEED one and would rather NOT have anything wrong with my daughter (who does?), but its so frustrating to have her teachers constantly emailing me, sending notes, basically complaining that she "doesn't focus...won't attend...seems to zone a lot...etc etc etc". My daughter has a form of MVP as well (mitral valve prolapse) so meds are scary to me. I have worked with SPED for 12 years so I know first hand about meds.The thing is...we know something isn't right with our daughter. We use behaviour modifications at home similar to the ones her Grade 1 teacher used and they work rather well, but it isn't enough. Incidentally, we got more positive reinforcement from her general ed teacher than we did her special ed teacher. Go figure! Thanks to all who've responded...this is the type support my husband and I need.
Guess I am late to this "party" and not sure that you are actually interested Imac, in what you ask, or if you'd just like to argue (as usual). However, hopefully for the benefit of others who might actually be interested, we have been able to seriously control his impulsive behavior and help him to focus in situations where he otherwise would have been way too overwhelmed to function. As a result, his social interactions have improved considerably. That's kind of a "in a nutshell" answer -- many other things have improved as a result.
I'd also like to add that we chose not to pursue medication at this time b/c there is little to no research done in meds on younger children. I'm just not comfortable giving him medication that can have some serious side effects when there isn't a lot of information out there. Additionally, we worked with a doctor who is trained in both Western medicine and Naturopathic medicine so he has both qualifications.
[QUOTE=KarenCee] its so frustrating to have her teachers constantly emailing me, sending notes, basically complaining that she "doesn't focus...won't attend...seems to zone a lot...etc etc etc". My daughter has a form of MVP as well (mitral valve prolapse) so meds are scary to me. I have worked with SPED for 12 years so I know first hand about meds.[/QUOTE]KarenCree, you have done the research and have made a choice about medicating your child. From what you have described, I doubt that meds would make a whole lot of difference in your daughter's ability to focus and attend and might cause serious problems because of other health issues. If you know your decision is the right one, don't let the notes, emails or suggestions from school bother you.
I know the decision is the right one. I can see though, that my husband and I will have a battle on our hands with this decision. Being in the school system I've seen how teachers react to kids whose parents decide against meds. *sigh* We will get a lot of flack from this and we're prepared. Y'know, it's different when it's your child as compared to it being one of your students. However, we do have the IEP to back us up and we're those parents that some teachers hate to see....the proactive ones. ;)
Thanks for the comments. :)
[QUOTE=IMac] Thanks for answering the question for Meg?
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And thank you for the snide, and completely unnecessary response.
[QUOTE=IMac] Unfortunately, the improvement in symptoms you've listed would not a diagnosis of ADHD make; there's the rub. I would be very uncomfortable recommending treatment that hasn't worked, yet.
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He has an ADHD diagnosis from a neuro-psychologist, and improvements in the items listed above have improved the quality of his life and his interactions with others. It's improved his overall behavior, and that's the primary issue. The treatment has worked; there's the rub.
NoTellin38927.8582175926[QUOTE=IMac]Hi Karen. Unfortunately, unless you have REALLY valid medical reasons for not taking medication, you are already setting yourself up for some flack. I used to think it was harsh when experts told people, if you aren't going to medicate, why do you need a diagnosis? Why do you need a diagnosis for your daughter? [/QUOTE]
You have to have a diagnosis to get and IEP and in many schools, they require one for a 504 (regardless of the law). Any accomodations you can get are vital, especially if you aren't going to medicate.
[QUOTE=NoTellin]Since working with a homeopath and taking a high-EPA fish oil, my son has improved:
*emotional control (self-contol),
*calmness, and
*ability to analye social interactions and consequences of behavior.
I am interested to see if there is any improvement in focus when he returns to school this year as well.
Finding the right medication isn't always easier than finding the right alternative(s). It's a journey regardless of the path you select.
[/QUOTE]Thanks for answering the question for Meg?
Unfortunately, the improvement in symptoms you've listed would not a diagnosis of ADHD make; there's the rub. I would be very uncomfortable recommending treatment that hasn't worked, yet.
[QUOTE=barb]
Any accomodations you can get are vital, especially if you aren't going to medicate.
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barb, what do mean by this exactly? I have an unmedicated child. I guess I should be pretty pushy at the next IEP regarding enforcement of accommodations?
Since working with a homeopath and taking a high-EPA fish oil, my son has improved:
*emotional control (self-contol),
*calmness, and
*ability to analye social interactions and consequences of behavior.
I am interested to see if there is any improvement in focus when he returns to school this year as well.
Finding the right medication isn't always easier than finding the right alternative(s). It's a journey regardless of the path you select.
NoTellin38927.8360763889 [QUOTE=MegMaguire][QUOTE=KarenCee]Just to add a post here...I am a newbie too. My daughter, age 7, has just been tested for CAPD, which mimics ADD/ADHD. The tests were negative for auditory problems but they are suggesting that she be further tested for ADHD. I work for the school system she goes to and I KNOW what they will recommend: meds. My husband and I are NOT wanting to go that route. It took a year for anyone to finally wake up and listen to us about our daughter. I'm just as frustrated as the OP here too. We are very proactive parents and want only the best for our daughter...who here doesn't? I know there is advice aplenty here and if anyone should want to share with us, I know we'd surely appreciate it.
*sigh*
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I'll, as usual, post that there is some great info on the Alternatives to Meds section of this board. Many of us have had success with supplements, diet modifications, etc. I'd recommend starting with the threads "Omegas Latest Research" and "Magnesium." We have not medicated our son and have seen great improvement working with a Naturopathic Doctor. Welcome!
Meg, could you remind of us the ADHD symptoms that have improved since working with your Naturopath?
[QUOTE=KarenCee]Just to add a post here...I am a newbie too. My daughter, age 7, has just been tested for CAPD, which mimics ADD/ADHD. The tests were negative for auditory problems but they are suggesting that she be further tested for ADHD. I work for the school system she goes to and I KNOW what they will recommend: meds. My husband and I are NOT wanting to go that route. It took a year for anyone to finally wake up and listen to us about our daughter. I'm just as frustrated as the OP here too. We are very proactive parents and want only the best for our daughter...who here doesn't? I know there is advice aplenty here and if anyone should want to share with us, I know we'd surely appreciate it.
*sigh*
[/QUOTE]
I'll, as usual, post that there is some great info on the Alternatives to Meds section of this board. Many of us have had success with supplements, diet modifications, etc. I'd recommend starting with the threads "Omegas Latest Research" and "Magnesium." We have not medicated our son and have seen great improvement working with a Naturopathic Doctor. Welcome!
Karen, just based on these statements, I cannot understand how anyone could pressure you into medicating your daughter. Unless something new has been discovered, I have been taught that medication has little or no effect on Learning Disabilities. Although ADHD is a developmental delay, it alone could never be considered a "significant" delay. If I were you, I wouldn't even mention ADHD to the school based team.
*I* haven't mentioned it. It's in the report written up by the school psychologist AND the Audiologist that tested her. The only thing I wanted her tested for was Central Auditory Processing Disorder. I have repeatedly said that I do *not* see the components to label her with ADHD at all! Rather than listening to me as one with experience in this area, they are seeing me as a parent...and a rather annoying one at that methinks. :)
You are right...meds have little or no effect on LD. The problem I'm seeing is that it seems they are quick to want to label her ADHD. It looks as if we will have to investigate other options on our own...for which we are very prepared to do. One thing is for sure...our daughter will have the best education possible!
Thank you SO much! I will definately get in touch with Anna's ped card...I've found that if a professional advises against a step like this then it's better received than if the parent refuses to medicate, never mind that I'm a professional too.
Thanks for bumping some of those threads...I know there's a wealth of info out there for us to read through. :)
Karen, if this kid has delays or did, you may also want to consider that he may not have ADHD at all (I agree with your NOT medicating him--teachers and school psycologists, notably of poor repute, can't diagnose kids). You may want to check out high functioning autism though. That sounds more likely to me, as a parent of such a child. There are no meds for that, although many have such poor attention that stims are tried. My son is med free and doing great just with school itnerventions. You do need a NeuroPsych to diagnose. If he had one while younger, go again. It often takes a while for a NeuroP. to see ASD and it gets called ADHD. Never let the school bully you. Bring in an Advocate. You can find one (they cost nothing) by calling your State Dept. of Public Education. ADHD and CAPD are different. My younger has CAPD bad enough that she needs special ed half the day, and was a non-reader in third grade. With supports she is almost reading at grade level now. Nobody sees any ADHD symptoms in her. Her attention span is excellent, she is well organized, and very hard working. I can't even say she is impulsive. CAPD is an auditory processing problem that affects understanding what is said to you or read to you. A NeuroPsych can diagnose ADHD, LD's and beyond, and they sure take the time. Good luck, and fight the school bullies!
KarenCee, my son also has congenital heart disease. I would go at this straight on. They are implying that they want your child medicated. I suggest that you ask your child's cardiologist what he/she thinks about stimulants for your child. Mine said no. I doubt yours will say Go For It! I told the school that he said no, and why, and that was the end of it. Also, if you research the February and March 2006 on the issue of black labels on ADHD drugs, you will find data to back your position that might be helpful to share with the school as well. If I am recalling correcting, 19 children died (on ADHD meds) in a 4 year time period, and 12 of them had pre-existing congenital heart disease. I am ready to hand this documentation during and IEP over to the school if they pursue it again, and ask the principal point blank what she would do if this was her child.
I'm going to try to bump some of these threads for you. I really got tired of the school implying that a CHD child should be on meds, and decided to stop beating around the bush.
NoTellin38928.878125jp, when I was eleven I slept over at a friend's house with another friend, a total of three 11 year old girls, all of us really good students and liked by our teachers. We not only didn't sleep, we left the house, picked strawberries from RIGHT under the neighbor's bedroom window, dodged the cops for a while, climbed onto the roof of a church education wing, and did several other mildly naughty things before returning home to watch TV with the sound off so as not to awaken the mom. I think that 10-14 is a really repellant time in any kid's life: they want to be taken seriously like an adult, try to interject opinions that really only prove they are children, and are dealing with hormone stew. They can have bad skin, bad self-image and be convinced that they have all the wrong clothes. You're going to have discipline issues that have nothing to do with whatever her diagnosis may be, things that LOTS of parents are dealing with. She may have adhd or she may have something else (a warning: some people tend to see in other people's children the issues that they themselves are dealing with, almost like tunnel vision), but she was a kid before her diagnosis and she'll still act like one afterward. Social coaching might not be a bad idea. Whatever you do, good luck. And remember, there is no expiration date on your child's future or possibilities for success.Thanks so much. My husband and I want to make sure our daughter gets the education she deserves. According to the Audiologist she does not have CAPD and wants her tested further for ADHD. I just called her Ped Card. to get his opinion on meds - he knows my opinion on meds. However, if I have his backing (in writing) then I can take that with me to the school as leverage for my stand against meds.I am very familiar with high functioning autism, of which I'm guessing you are referring to Aspergers. The last two school terms I've worked with kids with Aspergers. I'm not seeing those characteristics in our daughter although I know there are varied levels of ASD. I will look into the NeuroPsych option to see if that's appropriate here. No, the school won't bully me...they know that I have a lot of information at my disposal and that combined with the 12 years of SPED that I have leaves me well informed. In other words, they won't be able to snow me. It's just so frustrating for me that they're seeing me as only the parent, instead of also as a professional that happens to know a bit about the whole SPED scene.
Thanks for the advice MomWI.
BPQW....
As I get a few days past the incident, I am thinking more and more that you are right. She is impulsive and should not have done what she did, but it was typical kids stuff and I think her crush had a lot to do with it! The other mom and I chatted today and she didn't think it was a big deal at all. I think you are totally dead on that 10-14 is a tough age...they want to be adults. I remember that TOTALLY! She does have adhd...diagnosed in a triple play between school, dr., and neurologist.....but that doesn't change the things that she will do. I think this incident had less to do with adhd and more to do with being a pre-teen with a crush on her friends brother. I also think she is more impulsive than most and aren't they ALL impulsive at that age?
I know one thing for sure. Her dad and I love her with no conditions on it, but it is exhausting and frustrating parenting a child with her issues. She is precious and sweet and really, really smart! She wants to be a veterinarian...and she CAN! We are so proud of her...but puzzled by the odd behavior that sometimes takes her over. Her dad worked out a system with her to think before she acts...even if she has to write it down. I am hoping this will help her! It is always a work in progress, no?
Thanks for your post. It made me feel like it wasn't such a big deal after all....and I remember doing that stuff too...just a bit older!! hee hee! good times! haha
Thanks!