Speech Delay | ADHD Information
IMac38942.7480671296Just want to add that speech is the #1 reason for children receiving SPED services, regardless of the child's comorbid disabilities. Speech problems are quite common, though particular speech problems seem to be associated with particular comorbid conditions (i.e., articulation disorders are commonly comorbid with dyslexia).
IMac38942.7483680556I will check it out, MommieD. I do think, thogh, that anyone who has a speech delayed child, especially if it's severe, should check out why. Sounds like you did. Hope you nailed it early. Unfortunately, often the dx. changes, but at least for now you have help and it sounds like you're a good advocate for your child. My whole point about ADHD is that it isn't severe enough to stop one from having a good life (sometimes if given the right meds). However, mimickers are more severe and can interfer with a good adult life, so everything should be checked out. Looks like you did and will continue to. Good for you! Good luck to your child :) MomWI38931.2315740741
ok, i'm going to chime in here. my son had a MAJOR speech delay. it was from his hearing and the dr even said that he felt the adhd was a contributing factor. but, had his hearing been better, it would not have been a problem. He is fine with speech now. He's been to the speech therapist 3 times a week for over 4 years now. But, thats all i have to say about it. i think there are really no "wrong" answers as long as it is in reference in helping the child communicate. like scotmama said, we do the detailed conversations with our son. and when he was smaller and less articulate i would have him watch my mouth when i would say a word he had problems with, then we would look in the mirror for him to teach himself at the same time. it really makes a difference. you might try that. and we used a step method. we would work on several sounds at a time. Like using "b" "f" "g" "c" . after he would master the proper pronunciation, we would work our way up.
If you think your child needs a speech therapist, ask the teacher to have him evaluated for a speech delay problem.
IMac38942.7488078704Here is one link:
http://www.cherab.org/information/adhd-speech.html
I will get the other and post it.
Thanks,
DaynaHere is another link:
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2006/07/060713090947.ht m
Thanks!
Dayna/MommieDHere is one more:
http://www.mental-health-matters.com/articles/article.php?ar tID=649
Thanks for everything!
D.
[QUOTE=IMac]I keep coming up with NO mention of speech delay or things like this:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&a mp;a mp;db=PubMed&list_uids=8225933&dopt=Abstract
In the Jerusalem Institute for Child Development children with various developmental disorders at ages of 0-5 years are examined. Thirty-six children aged 2-4 years were examined by us and were found to have inattention, hyperactivity and speech delay with an IQ or DQ above 70 and were reexamined at 7-14 years of age. They were compared to a group of 27 control children. All children had a complete neurodevelopmental examination using the Touwen & Prechtel examination for Minor Neurological Dysfunction. They also had a Pollack tapper test for the identification of learning disabilities and the Conners parent's and teacher's hyperactivity rating scales. Of the 36 children from the research group 20 studied in special education classes because of behavioral disorders, inattention, and severe learning disabilities. They all hadADD-ADHD. There were 16 children in regular schools, of whom 9 had ADD-ADHD. In the control group only one child had ADD-ADHD. A very high number of the research group children failed in 2 or all 3 tests used in this study in comparison to controls. It seems that "soft" neurological signs with hyperactivity, inattention and speech delay may be early clinical signs of ADD-ADHD as 80% of the children with these clinical features developed ADD-ADHD during early school age.
* * * * * * * *
Developed ADD-ADHD during early school age? I thought pubmed was supposed to be reliable??
[/QUOTE]
I think all they are saying is that these kids were later dxed with ADD-ADHD, not dxed with it early. Many psychologists and doctors do not like to dx ADD-ADHD in very young children.
I would still be on the lookout for ASD. These kids are very literal. If I tell my son it's 3:30 and it's 3:33, he'll say, "No, it's actually 3:33." Again, that's a sign of possible Aspergers/PDD. It's not a sure thing, but it's a sign. Even if I mispronounce something that doesn't matter, like the name of a cartoon charcter, he'll get all excited and correct me. It's like living with the nuns from school
Does she echo words/phrases? Like to memorize thigns, like letters, numbers, words? My son knew all of them by age two! He had a scary rote memory.[QUOTE=MommieD]Hi! My three year old daughter was recently diagnosed with ADHD and placed on Focalin 5mg. The 5mg. didn't slow her down much and she was placed on 10mg. Since the increase in dosage she is beginning to sing songs and speak more, although it is still not conversational speech. Has anyone experienced this? If so, please provide me with any suggestions you may have.
Here is a little background information: My husband is very bright and was hyperactive as a child. He didn't speak until he was four and now is a successful engineer. I, too, have recently been diagnosed with ADHD much to my surprise.
My husband and I took Kylie to see a Child Psychiatrist who is also board certified in Neurology. I highly recommend them. Her doctor suggested monitoring the medication, in case we need to switch, and taking her to a Speech Therapist in six months.
Please let me know if anyone else has experienced this.
Many thanks![/QUOTE]
Hi! Has your daughter been to an ENT to have her ears checked extensively? There is so much more they can see and understand then a Pediatrician. I ask only because my son wasn't speaking at 2 1/2 yrs old. His Pediatrician just shrugged it off (we did for awhile because our other son was a late talker). Finally, we did take him in to an ENT and immediately the Dr knew something was wrong. Extreme fluid in both ears. By the time we had tubes inserted, tonsils removed and adenoids... my son was at the level of a 12 month old and we started speech therapy/fine motor skills help.
He is now 8 1/2 yrs old, diagnosed ADHD at 7yrs and still is in speech therapy. He struggles with tongue placement amoung other things. It is still questionable if he needs fine motor help (imo, he does). Blowing on whistles, drinking through straws are a few of the things he does to help with tongue movement.
Singing is a great thing for the little ones to do, letting her listen to all sorts of children songs and reciting them back would be great for her. Definitely follow up and take her to a Speech Therapist, at least to have her evaluated to see what level her speech is at. Good luck!
IMac38942.7500115741We have been watching to much Dora the Explorer:
Kylie took ten crayons and as she placed each one down on the table she was counting them in Spanish. She pronounced each one correctly and distinctly.
Has anyone else had this occur? She can count to thirty in English, but this floored us. My husband and I are working with her daily and all we want her to do is connect sentences. We don't even speak Spanish, although my older daughters from a previous marriage are fluent in it. Whitney, the eldest, is away at Baylor University and Taylor (Senior in H.S.) is getting ready to attend The University of Texas (U.T.). They only talk with Kylie in English when they are home.
Truly stumped!
[QUOTE=MommieD]The nurse/PhD. was referring to PDD/PDD-NOS and not autism. Every child that has ADHD or is on the Spectrum does not have identical symptoms nor do they have co-morbidity. One of the best quotes for a Child Psychiatrist/Board Certified in Neurology practicing at Baylor College of Medicine has made "Saying a child has autism is like saying someone has a mood swing." Everyone is not lumped into the same arena.
Thanks![/QUOTE]
I'm fully aware not all of them have the same symptoms, I have a son believed to be on the spectrum (being tested now), I'm more aware of the differences then I ever cared to be. That is why it's called a Spectrum, it has a broad range of symptoms. My point was, the only way an anti-depressant would work in a child with a PDD disorder is if there IS a co-morbid disorder along with it, then it would treat the co-morbid disorder, NOT the PDD disorder. Anti-depressants are for chemical imbalances. PDD's are developmental disorders, not chemical disorders, so NO medication works for them, it would only work if a co-morbid was present.
My other point was, that if a child on the spectrum had ADHD symptoms, then ADHD meds can (and with many do) work to treat the ADHD symptoms (not the spectrum disorder though). So to say that if a child responds to ADHD meds, they can't be on the spectrum, is inaccurate. It would be accurate to say that ADHD medications will not treat the symptoms of a PDD though. That's why I was wondering if possibly that is what the nurse meant? I don't get the Autism-mood swing quote, so I can't comment on that one
.
I realize not everyone can be lumped into the same arena, I never suggested that at all. In fact, I believe that is pretty much what I was trying to refute in the blanket, inaccurate, statement that "if your ADHD child is responding to the amphetamines such as Ritalin, Adderall, etc. that this is not PDD or PDD-NOS. That condition responds to Antidepressants. "
Trust me, with a child probably on the spectrum, and ADHD myself, I know all about differences, and treatments. I'm not sure you understood my original post at all. I wasn't commenting on the disorders, or lumping them together, or saying they all have co-morbids, or that they are all the same. I was only saying that anti-depressants are not used as treatment for PDD disorders (they would only be used IF a co-morbid disorder was present), and that a child on the spectrum can respond to ADHD medication treatment if they have ADHD too.
JUDE ALSO CAN COUNT AND SPEAK SPANISH WORDS.WHICH IS FUNNY AS HIS FATHER IS SCOTTISH AND I AM FRENCH.NOTHING UNUSUAL,THEY JUST SEEM TO ABSORB INFORMATIONS BETTER FROM THE TV.This is not listed in the dsm under adhd or add. This is the criteria book for the Dr.'s. It is under asd and even cp. Add or adhd don't have delays listed under the criteria at all. Motor problems are not mentioned as part of these 2 disorders either. Anti depression drugs even now have warning labels for people under 18. Higher suiside risk. The nurse/PhD. was referring to PDD/PDD-NOS and not autism. Every child that has ADHD or is on the Spectrum does not have identical symptoms nor do they have co-morbidity. One of the best quotes for a Child Psychiatrist/Board Certified in Neurology practicing at Baylor College of Medicine has made "Saying a child has autism is like saying someone has a mood swing." Everyone is not lumped into the same arena.
Thanks!Here is the latest: Kylie has had her hearing checked and everything is fine. We spoke with a nurse/PhD. at Aetna and she informed my husband and I that speech delay does not only mean not speaking, but choosing not to speak which is the case with Kylie. Another tidbit is if your ADHD child is responding to the amphetamines such as Ritalin, Adderall, etc. that this is not PDD or PDD-NOS. That condition responds to Antidepressants.
Kylie said, "I did good." today! She is coming along and has benefitted greatly from a good multivitamin with mineral supplements. The best can be found at The Vitamin Shoppe or stores such as GNC.
Child Psychiatrists that are also Board Certified in Neurology are excellent in diagnosing ADHD, Autism or any of the Pervasive Development Disorders. Psychiatrists differ from Psychologist in that they can write prescriptions. Also, Behavioral Pediatricians are excellent in this field too. Hope this helps.
[QUOTE=MommieD]Another tidbit is if your ADHD child is responding to the amphetamines such as Ritalin, Adderall, etc. that this is not PDD or PDD-NOS. That condition responds to Antidepressants.
[/QUOTE]
Sorry to jump in here just to comment on this one section, but this is just not true. There are many children on the spectrum that respond to ADHD medication because many have ADHD symptoms. It will only help the ADHD symptoms though, maybe that is what the nurse meant? Just as those with Tourettes, who many times have ADHD will respond to ADHD meds, this doesn't mean they don't have Tourettes.
Antidepressants don't even play a factor in the treatment of Spectrum disorders, unless that child has a co-morbid disorder that needs to be treated, such as anxiety, which is commonly seen. PDD's are not chemical imbalance based disorders, so there are not medications for it. Again, unless there is a co-morbid disorder with it that is chemical based.
It's great to hear your child is making progress :). It's always so great to see those leaps and bounds they make.
Well, swechie, my friend
that's the whole idea. If the kid has a speech delay, hyperactivity, no
social skills, occupatiional therapy problems, etc. and is called ADHD,
big deal. This child will still benefit greatly from ASD interentions
and should get them. Quibblng over a word makes no sense. Years pass
and the kids DON'T get the right type of help for their problems due to
quibbling over ADHD or ASD. Rote learning, echoing, repeating, by the
way, is very ASD. Whether or not the doctor calls it ADHD, ASD or ABC
the chld needs to learn to speak conversationally, if he can, and needs
to learn social skills, needs speech, needs OT, etc. Why deny your
child these interventions just because the child is labeled ADHD? In
the end, each label is only the opinion of the professional making it
and you can go to ten different professionals and get ten different dx.
(we did). I'm glad we pushed for the ASD interventions or my son
wouldn't be as functional now as he is. If a kid needs speech make darn
sure he gets speech. If a kid needs social skills, force the SD to do
it. If a kid has sensory issues, insist on OT. Don't just let the poor
kid flounder because he's labeled ADHD instead of ASD. Unfortunately
ASD will get you far more interventions than ADHD, but, if it walks
like a duck, fight, fight, fight for your kids to get the same
interventions. I'll bet many frustrated kids labeled ADHD will improve
in behavior once their problems and frustrations are addressed. I don't
"get" just expecting Ritalin to do it all when there is so much.
Ritalinl and other stims also help many ASD kids, but they won't help
ANY kid 100%.
The abbeviation's.....can't figure out the abbreviations....
Dear Pammar,
Hey
! I agree with you totally. It's best to separate the diagnosis (for receiving services) and the treatment in your mind. Manage the symptoms, regardless of what's causing them. And try and figure out the etiology of the problem to know what medications and interventions are likely to work.My own theory (don't we all have one ) is that the PDD-Nos diagnosis is probably of two different kinds. One the atypical autism variety i.e. Autism without some of the criteria and the other caused by trauma to the brain. A kind of severe ADHD. Lots of kids with undetected brain trauma go on to have very severe ADHD, which I think, is indistinguishable from PDD-NOS or actually IS PDD-NOS.
A lot of the debates raging in the autism world simply don't apply to the kids whose PDD-NOS is a result of brain trauma at birth. I believe (again IMHO) that ADHD and PDD-NOS are connected but not ADHD and classic autism ( which i think has a strong genetic component) . As in I don't think severe ADHD will ever become a classic autism situation or that treating autism will ever result in a kid losing most of his autistic behaviours and becoming an ADHD kid. I could be wrong of course. Time and research will tell.
Brain scans in ADHD
http://www.akidjustlikeme.com/1d32c590.png
http://add.about.com/cs/othertreatment/a/dramen.htm
Brain scans in autism
http://www.alasbimnjournal.cl/revistas/4/images/austism2a.jp g
There are very significant differences and yet there are several similarities.
Just wish to say that a lot of ADHD (upto 25%) is a result of brain injury at birth. ADHD is a significant comorbity of cerebral palsy. And kids with brain injury who escape cerebral palsy often go on to have ADHD.
The point I'm making is that the frontal lobe and temporal lobe are regions implicated in ADHD. And speech is closely related to the functioning of the temporal lobe. So any kid with damage to the temporal lobe can have speech delays. And lots of kids with ADHD do have damage to the temporal lobe.
A lot of kids with PDDs also have damage to the temporal lobe. But what seems to set the PDD kids apart neurologically is differences at a neuronal level which is what probably account for the core autistic symptoms.
http://www.goodhealthnyou.com/news/news1.php3?id=876
ADHD kids are as capable of PDD kids of kicking, biting and raging well into their teens. They can also have the speech delays. They can have the sensory issues. All of these things can be caused by brain injury. brain injury that does not necessarily result in a PDD. A kid with speech delay and ADHD symptoms does not necessarily classify for a PDD.
For both PDD and ADHD, there is no cure. They can both be genetic or caused by trauma. They can co-exist. And life-long management is needed. There really is no need for such heated debate over whether it is one or the other. No greater stigma attaches to a PDD kid and the ADHD parents don't really have it any easier. We need to manage the symptoms as they appear and figure out what works and what doesn't. We cannot decide if it's ADHD or PDD based on whether or not they respond to stimulants.. When there is comorbid ADHD, stimulant medication will work just the same, except it may make the PDD symptoms worse. But in some PDD kids, stimulant medication is prescribed and it does work.
Quoting from a PDD kid's parent
"XXXXX started on 5 mg/5 ml of methalyn (a short-acting ritalin like med) at 4. It made a huge difference in her ability to focus and participate. She was supposed to have her last dose at 3 so that it wouldn't interfere w/ bedtime. -- XXX"
Have removed the names to protect this person's privacy as I have not taken her permission to quote.
I've seen parents on this board diagnose other kids with PDD based on their own experiences and it's possible that they may be right in some cases, because there is a significant overlap between the PDD and ADHD kids. But there are several cases where a kid has ADHD only and still has a lot of ASD like issues, so it's a bad idea to generalize based on one's own experience.
Will end by saying, I mean no offence to anyone. So I hope none will be taken.
Useful links
link to help distinguish between high functioning autism and adhd through child's history. Surprisingly speech is not mentioned as a differentiating factor.
http://www.adhdnews.com/apr2000.htm
links talking about the connection between adhd and communication issues/speech delays
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&a mp;db=PubMed&list_uids=8225933&dopt=Abstract
http://www.cherab.org/information/adhd-speech.html
http://gradda.home.isp-direct.com/sp99como.html
Swechcha.
IMO if a child is said to have ADHD, but has tons of ASD issues, heck, treat ASD. You can't know for sure that it's only ADHD and, if the child suffers exactly the same symptoms as an ASD kid, the same interventions will improve the child's functioning. Makes no sense to withhold these interventions based on one professional's lable.
Reading through this thread, I realize there is a lot of misunderstanding about ASD (autistic spectrum disorder). PDD-NOS, which my son has, IS on the spectrum. There is a better site than this one if anyone has questions or suspicions regarding ASD. I truly believe ADHD will be on the spectrum one day. Too many ADHD kids sound like ASD kids, and continue to struggle with the same issues. Often ADHD sounds a lot less scary than ASD, but it's the wrong diagnosis. Ok, if you're interested in learning more, I have a few links here. Some ASD kids respond to stimulants, but it won't solve the underlying issues and they need aggressive interventions in school, unlike kids with stand alone ADHD. I can't seem to get the links to auto post, but, if you're interested, the PDD forum site is just like this one and talks about PDD/low functioning autism/PDD-NOS/Aspergers and anything else. It is quite informative with smart parents regarding this disorder. Put the addy in and go.
www.autism-pdd.net/forum/default.asp
www.childbrain.com/pddassess.com
pammar38963.5310532407
IMac38942.7468634259
IMac38942.7462268519
MomWI said Stand alone ADHD is NOT that big a problem, other than in school.
I think maybe I'll take this quote and post it on the adults board and see what they think about it. Wonder if any have lost jobs, relationships, marriages or contact with family members because of it and its attendant social problems? Or I'll talk to Sunday school teachers, den leaders, camp counselors, daycare teachers, or any of the other adults who have to try to get control of a group of kids. I'll bet they disagree. I know that I definately disagree, having dealt with it in restaurants and museums and concerts and family reunions and parks and hospital rooms and.....your disdain of the ADHD diagnosis is evident, and I don't believe you are here to help those with ADHD at all.
If a child is swearing at teachers, unable to socialize, etc. he may have the label of ADHD, but it's not ADHD, so, sure, these people have problems. It is MISDIAGNOSED, ilke Imac said, because it is the one diagnosis ALL professionals know about. I never said it causes NO problems. ADHDers can and do grow up to be productive people with good jobs. Many (IMO most) need meds, if they have stand alone ADHD. That's just my opinion from observation and talking to parents of kids who do have ADHD. Imac is 100% right. Out of 100 people with ASD, which is very often MISDIAGNOSED as ADHD because of clueless professioanils, only 3 will live independently. It is worth it to give a child a chance by MAKING SURE the dx. is right. Bipolar, which my son doesn't have, but I do, is also a horror to grow up with, and a lot of kids here are as rageful and angry as kids with bipolar. I don't know your kid's story, BQ. I know you're closed to other options so I am not posting to you. I post to those whose kids seem to have more going on and are diligent about checking it out. Not all parents are as careful with their kids and a sad amount are in denial. Some can barely handle hearing about ADHD, let alone more. That doesn't mean their kid only has ADHD. I'm going to continue talking about the mimickers. Everyone who has a child with a disorder should know the subtle but important differences between bipolar, ADHD and ASD. It can be the difference between a good or horrible adult life for your child. As one with undiagnosed early onset bipolar, all I can say is, it's not fun and could easily have been misdiagnosed as ADHD. Knowledge is power. ADHD kids are annoying. PDD kids are clueless. Big difference. If anyone wishes to learn something, there are boards for bipolar and PDD. You never know when something may strike home. That's how *I* moved beyond ADHD. I was ready to accept it too. Nobody wants to think it could be more. But, again, I get an e-mail almost every day, mostly from lurkers, and they're glad to know, often have questions, etc. Why shouldn't I post when there is an obvious need and people respond? If nobody ever responded to these posts, I wouldn't stay here. But I get tons of e-mail. And often people do start posting on the PDD board or the Conduct Disorder board. For those interested, I'll post the link again:
www.autism-pdd.net/forum/forum_topics.asp?...
What you don't know CAN hurt you and your child.
MomWI38930.631087963IMac38942.7465625
IMac, I'm all for people exploring every option and treatment available to help their kids. If the parents know there is something else going on, or suspect there is, that's one thing. Someone telling them that their child sounds like they are autistic after a post of a few lines is beyond the pale, though. And not just a few people. LOTS of people. Just because someone's kids had a meltdown doesn't mean the parent said they had "rages." Just because a parent says their child has problems socially doesn't mean that they can't hold a conversation or look people in the eye. Just because a child chooses a favorite toy for a few weeks doesn't mean they are fixated. And just because a child does something that a particular poster never dealt with in her what-ever years as a parent doesn't mean that it is aberrant behavior and an indicator of anything more serious than kids being themselves. As far as I know, no one here gives licensed medical advice or counseling, so to say,"ADHD kids DO NOT..." is irresponsible. It's so frustrating to see people come here looking for help with their children who were just diagnosed, and to read a response that says their child's behavior doesn't sound like adhd to someone and that their caregiver missed the diagnosis because they aren't trained properly and that, it is strongly inferred, until they get to autism they aren't doing what is best for their child. That's not helping anyone, that's causing anxiety and doubt instead of empowering.
And MomWI, as far as pm's go, I get plenty agreeing with me, too, but so what. That's just a p*55ing match.
To compare managing the behaviour of a child with ADHD to that of a child on the Autism Spectrum or a child with Bipolar is like trying to compare apples with oranges.I have not compared them. I don't need to. Your post confuses me, especially since I agree with you. What point were you making?
IMac38942.7472685185 I have to say that i am one of the "newbies" who found advice from momwi very informative and helpful. i joined this forum to seek advice and whether or not i choose to accept it i am very grateful it was there when i needed it and will continue to be there. i feel everyone here has advice that is valuable to someone and i am glad it is sharedThanks, proud mom. I've been through so much myself. I like to share what I learned to those who are interested (and those who aren't need only scroll down). I feel like most newbies or lurkers (of which most are) come here to find answers, not just to get sympathy. That's why I share what I know, when it seems appropriate. Then they can take what they want from it, either explore, or decide not to, but at least they know a little more than they did before. I certainly never mean harm...kids are my passion and always have been, especially those with special needs.
IMac38942.7476157407We have consulted with a Speech Therapist. Also if you have a child with ADHD, speech delay does occur quite frequently with ADHD per our Speech Therapist and Neuro/Psych.
I was talking with Kylie today and told her her toy would not work without batteries and she looked at me and said, "Me broke it?"
Thanks for all of the help!Try going to ADHD-Speech and Science Daily:Late Talking Toddler - New Research and you will clearly see that ADHD can result in late/delayed speech.
Thanks again.
P.S. I have ADHD and was diagnosed only after my daughter began showing symptoms and was diagnosed with ADHD. By the way, I have a wonderful life and graduated from Texas A&M University with honors. I hope other parents will see this diagnosis and will see it does not limit their child.
Again, many thanks for all the help.But those aren't ADHD traits alone. They're also autistic. ANd ADHD is almost always what ASD is called first. A speech delay has nothing to do with ADHD. ANyone with an kid with a serious speech delay, sensory issues and social cluelessness who doen'st get the chld proper treatment will find that their child pays for it in the end. Far better to be safe than sorry. Again, though, they tend not to diagnose much beyond everything being ADHD across the pond, and I feel sorry for the kids who need more than ADHD help...if my son were there, he wouldn't be anywhere near where he's at now. Sometimes you have to be brave and face things...for your child's sake. At the very least, a NeuroPsych exam is never harmful to the child. Not having one can be. This is the board I chat on that is least open to other possiblities and I truly believe many parents are afraid of more than ADHD. When I first came here, I posted "How many think it's more than ADHD" and got a huge response. I think most here do worry about that or they wouldn't post because ADHD alone is not that big a problem, at least not behavior wise, and the kids aren't totally socially clueless. And most will visit other dx. before they are teens. I post here for the parents who ARE willing to look beyond (and many are--I see them on Conduct Disorders or the PDD board, and they are getting re-evaluated). I'm not here for people who are steadfastly going to say their kids have ADHD only, even if they are more like PDD or bipolar kids. There's no point in posting to those parents, although I do feel badly for the kids. I get a lot of private mail though, so it's getting through to some. To others...some DO seem to have just ADHD, but most who post here have kids with way too many problems for just ADHD. Like speech delays. Like hours of raging. Take care
MomWI38929.6030671296Here is the DSM criteria for ADHD. As you can see, what happens to the kids who are posted about here are not consistent with ADHD guidelines in many cases. Speech problems aren't a part of it, nor are hours of raging.
DSM IV Criteria for Diagnosis of AD/HD
Either 1 or 2
Six or more of the following symptoms of inattention have persisted for at least six months to a degree that is maladaptive and inconsistent with developmental level:
Often fails to give close attention to details or makes careless mistakes in schoolwork, work, or other activities
Often has difficulty sustaining attention in tasks or play activities
Often does not seem to listen when spoken to directly
Often does not follow through on instructions and fails to finish schoolwork, chores, or duties in the workplace (not due to oppositional behavior or failure to understand instructions)
Often has difficulty organizing tasks and activities
Often avoids, dislikes, or is reluctant to engage in tasks that require sustained mental effort (such as school work or homework)
Often loses things necessary for tasks or activities (e.g., toys, school assignments, pencils, books, or tools)
Is often easily distracted by extraneous stimuli
Is often forgetful in daily activities
Six or more of the following symptoms of hyperactivity/impulsivity have persisted for at least six months to a degree that is maladaptive and inconsistent with developmental level
Hyperactivity
Often fidgets with hands or feet or squirms in seat
Often leaves seat in classroom or in other situations in which remaining seated is expected
Often runs about or climbs excessively in situations in which it is inappropriate (in adolescents or adults, may be limited to subjective feelings of restlessness)
Often has difficulty playing or engaging in leisure activities quietly
Is often "on the go" or often acts as if "driven by a motor"
Often talks excessively
Impulsivity
Often blurts out answers before questions have been completed Often has difficulty awaiting turn Often interrupts or intrudes on others (e.g. butts into conversations or games) Some hyperactive, impulsive or inattentive symptoms that caused impairment were present before 7 years of age Some impairment from the symptoms is present in two or more settings (e.g., at school or work and at home) There must be clear evidence of clinically significant impairment in social, academic, or occupational functioning The symptoms do not occur exclusively during the course of a pervasive developmental disorder, schizophrenia, or other psychotic disorder, and are not better accounted for by another mental disorder (e.g., mood disorder, anxiety disorder, dissociative disorder, personality disorder.) (Use back button to return to previous screen)From1.
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MOMMIED.
did your doctor arrange for you to see a speech therapist?i don't know what to say about your child being able to follow instructions and playing nicely with other children.my son has problems with those but you can have ADHD without being autistic.maybe she is one of the klucky ones who has mild ADHD.
MomWI said,I'm not here for people who are steadfastly going to say their kids have ADHD only, even if they are more like PDD or bipolar kids. There's no point in posting to those parents AND
I think most here do worry about that or they wouldn't post because ADHD alone is not that big a problem, at least not behavior wise, and the kids aren't totally socially clueless
MomWI, I find your attitude about ADHD very strange, considering that this IS a board for the support of people with adhd or children with adhd. People come here looking for support, not insistant and pervasive disdain for their medical professionals and their opinions, which is clearly evident in most of your posts. It's hard enough for parents to deal from day to day, but to come here and get told that the people they trust to treat their children are clueless, and that adhd isn't that big a problem and that their kids probably have something else but those lazy, uneducated professionals missed it is disheartening and insulting. ADHD does exist in people on its own and I'd bet top dollar that those adults with it don't find it a hoot to live with, nor do the children who deal with the social rejection every day because of their behavior. The monumental arrogance of ADHD alone is not that big a problem is amazing. Whatever your personal agenda is in pushing autism or bipolar diagnosis on this board, at least have the courtesy to respect what others are going through without telling them that it's not that big a problem.
My son is ADHD alone and YES I find this a big problem. He is not ASD or Bipolar and he does not have a LD. One of the first time I posted here I was also told that he might have ASD and to see a neuro psych. I did see a neuro psych and now we are almost 2000 dollars poorer. This was such a waste of time and money.
Delays are not part of adhd or add they are part of asd. If you question what you are told here look it up in the dsm your self. Add and adhd are a part of haveing asd also. Therapies are what help the delayed things not medacines. Medacines also will not fix SI issues either. Getting more evaluations are never a waste either. School social isn't a must either they can find that other places also. A child should be aloud to be who they are and excepted by others no matter what. If they are not excepted by others that's the other fault either. I believe schools need to return to teaching the basics/social skills/manners. I say get rid of the testing thing. Daily work tells it all anyhow. I know what ADHD is. My son had the dx. I post here for the reasons I stated. Many people who post here are dealinlg with a heck of a lot more than ADHD, and if I can help steer them right, I feel I've helped a kid. I'm not here for the parents or to hold their hands. I want to help kids who are diagnosed with ADHD and who really have a lot more going on than that. There is nothing wrong at all with telling parents to explore beyond ADHD--get a NeuroPsych exam. I question why some parents, who are having so much trouble, refuse to do it. But then again there are enough who truly want to find out if it's just ADHD that it's worth it to me to keep posting. I know ADHD exists. I know kids who have it. They do not have speech delays, can make friends (although they struggle--it's not the same as with ASD), and they aren't kicking in doors, hitting their parents, or out-of-bounds sexually. That's simply not ADHD. Now if some want to think it is, and keep up a regiment of treatment that is not working, that's their choice. Anyone can skip my advice and posts, and I'm sure many do. It IS scary to think "beyond ADHD." But, imo only, good parents know if more is going on and want to know what it is to help their kids the most they can. I care little if some parents get upset by it. Those are usually the ones who attribute everything from choking the cat to raging for hours to social cluelessness to ADHD, and that's too bad for their child, but, hey, I can't do much about them. I get LOTS of private messages so I know I'm connecting. And I answer all of them! :) Take care. Not discussing it further in this thread. I'm sure it will come up again, and I'll have to explain again, and that's fine, but for now I think I adequately explained my reason for being here. Have a nice day to all. Keep cool. It's 100 degrees in Wisconsin, so I can only imagine how hot it is everywhere else :) Stand alone ADHD is NOT that big a problem, other than in school. THat doesn't mean it's NOT a problem. I know ADHD kids. They are the ones the other kids ostracize for being "bossy" and "annoying" but they aren't breaking chairs. They are strugglng in school with high IQs, but they aren't spitting at the teachers. They blurt out stuff while others are trying to talk, but they aren't swearing at the teachers. I'm not pushing anything. I'm trying to educate those newbies who come here and only know about one disorder--ADHD--and attribute everything to it out of lack of knowledge, and I was there once too. Again, I recommend seeing NeuroPsychs for total evaluations when the problems are off-the-wall. ANyone who would find that a radical suggestion imo has their own agenda (in other words--my kid can't have a nything other than ADHD because it's way too scary for ME). I can't control that.MomWI38930.3778587963To scotsmama: In the US, the school district is great about early intervention and my son was in interventions even before he came into our care (he was a foster child). He was in something called "Infant Intervention" for high risk kids. I'm convinced it REALLY helped him. He didn't speak much, except to echo and repeat phrases from television, until 4 1/2, and he is quite articulate now. He was also put in "social class" at age 3, and sent to Spec. Ed and also to 1/2 day at Head Start. He had tons of interventions, which I feel have helped him to the point where he is a happy kid today rather than a kid who bangs his head against the wall out of frustration (he broke three doors with his head. All countries do it differently. We never needed to pay for any of those services!Finally, to Joe'sMom. Your son sounds ADHD. I wouldn't have told you to see a NeuroPsych. I personally spent way more than 00, and found out my son had ADHD/ODD and bipolar. Oh, yeah. He didn't. They were wrong. I still never regret a penny I've spent on my son. For myself, yeah. For my kid? No. Am I rich? Hardly. If your son had a disease you could see, like swollen lymph nodes, and you weren't sure you had the right diagnosis, you'd pay out of pocket to find out what he DID have. You were being a good mom. It turned out that YOUR son had nothing. I get e-mails almost every day from mothers who found out their kids had more than ADHD. Now, simmer down, because I'm posting to new people, not the ones here who are positive their kids troubles are all due to ADHD. Or get upset, but I won't join you. I"m glad I had a chance to explain to lurkers and newbies why I'm here. You don't see this controversy on other boards because the parents themselves are aware of all disorders and they all give advice like I give. ADHD exists. The DSM guidelines were posted above. I never regret trying to help kids. I adopted four and did foster care forever. My interest is in the kids, not the parents, who are adults. If one kid gets help because of my posts (and more than that have per my PMs) then it's worth upsetting a few posters here. Have a good day.MomWI38930.3832060185ADHD is a huge problem for my son and family. If my son has something else going on, we will deal with it. For now, it is just adhd. Thank you BPQW, I agree with you.I beg to differ that speech issues are not present in ADHD -- they are actually common. We have had our son in speech classes since he was three. He was talking but very difficult to understand. You can check with your local school district about speech therapy through your public school system. They will complete evaluations and offer services for free. We have been pleased with ours..... good luck to you! Hi! My three year old daughter was recently diagnosed with ADHD and placed on Focalin 5mg. The 5mg. didn't slow her down much and she was placed on 10mg. Since the increase in dosage she is beginning to sing songs and speak more, although it is still not conversational speech. Has anyone experienced this? If so, please provide me with any suggestions you may have.
Here is a little background information: My husband is very bright and was hyperactive as a child. He didn't speak until he was four and now is a successful engineer. I, too, have recently been diagnosed with ADHD much to my surprise.
My husband and I took Kylie to see a Child Psychiatrist who is also board certified in Neurology. I highly recommend them. Her doctor suggested monitoring the medication, in case we need to switch, and taking her to a Speech Therapist in six months.
Please let me know if anyone else has experienced this.
Many thanks!Yes, but it's more a symptom of autistic spectrum disorder. ADHD doesn't affect speech. Is she in a Speech program through early education? It could really help her. At age three it's hard to get an accurate diagnosis for anything, and the diagnosis often, if not usually changes with time. If she is possibly on the Spectrum, stims sometimes help, sometimes don't. I'd try to enroll her in the SD's Early Childhood Program, just to touch all bases. Does she interact well with others? Again,t his is hard to tell at age three. My son, who started out with ADHD dx., was in Speech before age two, and it made all the difference in the world. I wouldn't wait. Giving her Speech will only help her. Does she answer questions? If you ask "What's your name?" will she tell you. If you say "Do you want to go out" will she answer? Can she make sentences? Does shes copy what she hears? My son, even when he first started speaking, did not do so in a conversational way, again a big symptom of ASD, not ADHD. MomWI38928.1637152778
my son also has some speech delay and he is 4 ,he has ADHD.
WE NOTICED A BIG DIFFERENCE ONCE HE STARTED NURSERY,HIS SPEECH GREATLY IMPROVED BUT HE STILL HAS A SLIGHT DELAY SO WE ARE SEEING A SPEECH THERAPIST.
HE IS NOT MEDICATED
My son's speech improved too, but he still has other ASD issues. In the US they are more apt to catch high functioning autism. In your country, they are more apt to stick with ADHD, which is what they did here about twenty years ago. I stand by my advice, especially if the child does not converse and has other issues. Here, in the States, he could well get early interventions that go beyond speech problems and, imo, it's best to help the child as aggressively as possible. My son has impeccable speech now, but still can't really hold a give and take conversation, and has other issues. The social problems don't get better with ASD, even if they call it ADHD, and ADHD social problems are mild compared with ASD kids. So, imo, it's a good idea, since the poster lives here, to check it out. MomWI38928.2187152778IMac38942.7398958333Thanks, Imac. I'm always surprised at what passes as ADHD. Most ADHD kids I know are quite articiulate. Most? Heck, ALL. No, it's more a symptom of ASD, and any kid with a speech delay needs to be evaluated or the parent is being irresponsible. And it should be a NeuroPsych. Psycologists minus the Neuro don't know much about it nor do many Psychiatrists (some do). It's hit or miss with them. Although the speech problems often resolve with time, as the kids get older, they still remain unable to hold give and take conversations or express themselves well, and this causes a lot of trouble--they need speech even after they can articulate the words, and they need to role play holding conversations. ADHD has nothing to do with speech problems. The only way ADHD may have "common" speech problems is that the usual first diagnosis for ASD kids is ADHD, but they don't really have it and eventually (often not until pre-teen to teen years) find out it was due to ASD, not ADHD. MomWI38928.565462963
IMac38942.7403819444
IMac38942.740787037Please note that if a child that is not ADHD is placed on any of the medications for ADHD (amphetamines) they would be bouncing off the walls. Kylie has settled down on the meds and has begun to sing and say some words.
I will consult a Speech Therapist on Monday and thanks for the help.I have heard that ear infections as a very young child or infant are common history in ADHD kids. These can and do have impacts on speech. My son had tons of ear infections and also currently has a small speech issue, almost done with speech therapy.
[QUOTE=IMac]Speech problems are caused by many things. Speech delays narrow the field, but can still be from several causes. ADHD is not one of them. [/QUOTE]
Where exactly are you quoting that I said ADHD CAUSES speech delays -- I said they are often present????
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Actually, ASD kids often have co-morbid ADHD and do well on stims. Yes, speech delays can be caused by Cerebral Palsy (knew a kid who had that) and hearing problems. I've had two kids with such bad ear infections they needed tubes and both had articulation problems due to poor hearing, but they didn't have delays (that's different). And they were appropriate in their behaviors and socially. ADHD doesn't include speech delays as a symptom. Speech delays alone don't mean ASD. If the child can't hold a give and take conversation and has severe social problems and sensory issues, you need to look into it. Just because a child can talk doesn't mean he can communicate. My son is very articulate, but doesn't really hold conversations. He either monologues or says "I don't know." And, since I've raised three other kids, I know this is behond the normal "boys don't talk" stuff. He doesn't really do much give and take conversation with his peers either and is pretty socially clueless. It's better to be too careful than not careful enough. And ADHD would not explain a speech delay.
MomWI38928.7415625I still have no idea what or why you are taking issue with what I said.... ? It amazes me how you adore picking fights and makes absolutely no sense to me. 
Again, I said there are often speech issues present -- what causes those or what needs to be present for a diagnosis was absolutely no part of my statement nor did I claim it to be a "symptom" -- "often present" and "symptom" are not the same thing.
At the end of the day it does not matter whether this child has ADHD or not -- if there is a speech delay and/or issue the parent needs help. We have found help through our local school system, perhaps she could too. I know as a parent that I could care less what anyone wants to call it -- I just want help for my child. Perhaps this parent does as well?
This really has my husband and I confused. Kylie follows directions well, plays well with her sisters, does not obsess with any one toy or line them up, plays with the neighbor children and is very cuddly. She has the typical eye contact of a three year old.Our Neuro/Psych says this is not autism. Any thoughts or ideas are welcome.
Thanks![QUOTE=IMac]Here is a wonderful description of ADHD speech issues:
http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cache:3LjOkILXMi8J:https://ww w.asha.org/public/speech/disorders/ADHD.htm+speech+%2Badhd&a mp;a mp;hl=en&gl=ca&ct=clnk&cd=1
Speech and Language
Inattention, hyperactivity, and impulsivity have their effects on speech and language. Following instructions carefully and completely is difficult. Answers to questions may be blurted out before the teacher or others have finished asking a question. Time may not be taken to use well-formed and grammatical sentences. Stories or discussions about the day at school may be so disorganized that listeners cannot follow what is being said. Or, the child assumes knowledge of the listener that he or she does not have. For example, I left that place. I talked to her. I ate cereal this morning.
Speakers may be interrupted, or language may not be changed for different communication partners. For example, the more casual, informal language used with friends on the playground may be inappropriately used with teachers or other authority figures in the school.
Specific speech and language patterns vary from child to child with ADHD. For example, some children with ADHD also have learning disabilities that affect their speech and language. Evaluation of each child's individual speech and language pattern is critical to developing an appropriate treatment plan.
[/QUOTE] great link! i have a stuttering problem and i find when i'm in casual conversation it isn't quite as bad as when i'm asked to describe an event or a situation. i also speak assuming the person i'm speaking to knows the subject matter i'm talking about.
IMac38942.745In ASD terms, it means not talking. Kids don't talk at the appropriate times...maybe not until 4 or 5. Some ASD kids dont talk at all, or appropriiately, without interventions. Some do, but a delay is a delay. Kind of like a kid who walks at three years old has some sort of delay in walking. That's what happens to the PDD kids. They don't talk at the normal time and, even after they start to speak, other problems keep cropping up which, when young, if not assessed seriously can be mistaken for ADHD. i don't know they say jude says words and sentences but does not seem to understand the meaning .to tell you the truth jude is very headstrong and did not want to coopeate with the therapist and refused to speak to her.i don't think there is anything wrong with his speech but they insist on him going to therapy sessionsscotmama38933.4488194444Can't hurt. If they offer it, hey, why not? I love the name Jude. Of course, it reminds me of Jude Law :) Can the little future movie star hold a conversation or does he just sort of repeat things he hears from you or on television? That's a big difference!MomWI38933.4944560185
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our speech therapist suggested that when we talk to him,we elaborate our phrases.instead of the ball we would say the round ball,then the big round ball,then the big red round ball.we also play "i spy" in the car or walking but instead of just saying the letter,you descibe the object
mom,thanks i will have a look.jude never had problems with eye contact.he actually got his name when we were watching a jude law movie and when we discovered that jude was the patron saint of lost causes we thought it fitted us well
I went to google search and put in ADHD Speech Delay and found it I believe on page six. I hope this helps. There were many articles on ADHD and speech delay in toddlers.
FYI everybody: I found an interactive disc to use on the computer which speaks to your child and they select and pronounce several words etc. It is called TIMO and I found it under PDD-NOS. It has a demo that you can see and covers many, many topics for your child. It is suggested for ADHD, Austistic and PDD-NOS children. I will find it and put the site on.
Thanks,
Dayna
aka MommieDHey gang!
Today was an odd day for us. Kylie babbled alot today as she always does. I asked her if she would like to color and handed her the crayolas. She looked at me and said, "not colors, crayons!" This stunned me because my husband and I always refer to them as colors. She isin't echoing phrases, but is starting to use words and understands what is going on.
Any and all ideas welcome on how to keep her talking. All or your help is greatly appreciated:)
Thanks,
MommieD
MommieD38934.9382986111Maybe he jus doesnt slow down to talk.
he does both,more repeating than conversing but he can have a conversation a little bit then somethingelse gets his attention.
he sometimes gets muddle up with words like up and down or in and out.ect...and he can nag and nag.
i never really thought anything of it ,for me it was just jude being jude.i have asked his psychologist about other possibilities than ADHD,they disagree,his regular psychologist thinks he may be on the autistic spectrum,the one who assessed him at the hospital disagreed.what made me think he only has ADHD is that he can have periods of "normality",he seems to have bursts of ADHD behavior then he is fine for a while then he starts again.i always thought it was weird.
One thing I do know about PDD/autism is that the kids have "typical" days and often seem more autistic on certain days or in certain settings. My son often seems totally typical, then he'll, say, go to a party with kids he doesn't know and the eyes won't make contact, he wont' interact, and he'll act like he doesn't even know kids he knows well from school. He kind of wanders around rather than interacts, and likes to touch everything. When Lucas was young he used to echo/repeat stuff he's heard on television or from us. Repeating stuff is a very ASD trait (I knew this so I had an edge). They still said he had just ADHD, but I didn't believe it. He just was too "different." Lucas can hold a conversation at times too, but not for very long. Sometimes he'll burst into a long monologue and not realize everyone is bored, but he's not very good at give-and-take conversation. Most people just know how to do this. Lucas doesn't. It was hard to get him diagnosed because, for ASD, he's high functioning, but we just didn't think he had ADHD alone, and he didn't fit the bipolar criteria either (kid never raged). It took a long time to get it right, but we insisted he get ASD interventions even without the dx. In the end, they really helped him. When Lucas was little, he was hyper off the walls. We used to say he "hung from the chandeliers." Now at 13 he is very mellow. He is also very different from other 13 year olds, although nobody thinks he has ASD unless I tell them. There are various levels of ASD and the high functioning type is hard to get a diagnosis for, and these kids need the interventions as much as the lower functioning kids. You may want to read a bit on the PDD board I always post on. Or you can post to the people to see what they say. They'll be honest. Psycologists have a poor rep in the ASD community. They really screwed up the diagnosis of so many of our kids, and wasted our time and our kid's time.
www.autism-pdd.net/forum/forum_topics.asp?...
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i don't think jude's speech delay is severe,neither does the therapist.he had the tests and is only about 6 months behind,it is probably because of his inattentive and hyperactive side.as for his social problems he can play with other kids,just one at the time for short periods of time.he gets really hyper and excited then starts acting dangerously ,again his impulsive and hyper side are responsible.
i do read all the other posts about more than ADHD and i did ask the child psychologist about it.i do not recognise jude when i read these posts but i am keeping an eye to see any changes,but for now i think he only has ADHD.He is responding very well to therapy and to the one to one at nursery,he would not i think if he had more than ADHD.
I AM NOT AS WELL RESEARCHED AS MOM OR IMAC ON THE SUBJECT OF AUTISTIC SPECTRUM,MY ADVICE IS ONLY FROM PERSONNAL EXPERIENCEWITH ADHD/ADD.
Fair enough! We're actually agreeing :). manage the symptoms regardless of the diagnosis.My best friends call me swech or swechie or swechchu. You're absolutely the first American(?) to call me swech.