WONT FOLLOW RULES ....CARES ABOUT NOTHING | ADHD Information

Some suggestions, from one who had a very difficult teenager. First of all, take her for a new evaluation and make sure it's a NeuroPsycologist (first choice) or Child Psychiatrist (with that MD) second choice. Forget talk therapists, pediatricians or social workers OR SCHOOL to diagnose. This kid seems to have moved on from ADHD and has more going on--maybe a mood disorder, maybe high functioning autism that was never caught. For some reason, work is so hard for her that she'd rather not do it, get into trouble, and not care about herself rather than get it done. Another thing, at her age BE SURE SHE IS NOT USING RECREATIONAL DRUGS, including pot and the abuse of ADHD drugs (yes, they are widely abused. My daughter used to buy them or steal them, crush them in a pillcrusher, and snort them either alone or with stronger drugs. She has told me all this now that she is clean). Adderrall is the most abused ADHD drug, but they all have high street value. Since she is a teen, new things kick up, including dangerous behaviors, and you can't play around because the kids can go downhill fast (mine did. She started the drug bit at 12). That sort of defiance is not a symptom of ADHD. I'd be wanting to assess her fast, before things really spiral out of control, like they did in my house, and I'd include a surprise drug test. I wish you well and hope you don't just think this is all related to ADHD. My guess is, with another evaluation, new things will come out and you may find out that stimulants are not the ticket for this particular kid. They ONLY work for kids who have straight ADHD, and more is going on with her. good luck.

I haven't had to live with anyone with ADHD but did have custody of my GNeice (ADD) and I understand defiant. But my sister is probably going through what you are with a almost 12 year old and many times just wanted to give up. In fact she was almost ready to put her into foster care. I honestly don't know how my sister does it but things are getting a bit better because she and her daughter are going to therapy. Would this be a possibility?

We all know having a defiant uncaring teen can be terribly hard for the whole family. I really don't have any advise except my heart goes out to you. Sorry, that isn't very helpful.

Auntie38964.8474189815

MY 14 YEAR OLD DAUGHTER HAS ADD, SHE IS ON 15 MG FOCALIN A DAY. NOT TO SURE IF ITS WORKING. I KNOW THAT THESE MEDS ARE SUPPOSED TO HELP THESE KIDS FOCUS.......BUT WHAT IF THE CHILD JUST DOESNT WANT TO DO THEIR HOMEWORK? OR THE CHILD JUST HATES FOLLOWING RULES? THE MEDS CANNOT HELP THAT..... CAN THEY???

I HAVE BASIC RULES IN MY HOME, DO YOUR HOMEWORK, OFF THE COMPUTER AT A CERTAIN TIME, NO SLEEPING OUT ON SCHOOL NIGHTS, ECT. NOTHING OUT OF THE ORDINARY. WHENEVER I ENFORCE ANY RULES ON HER, SHE FLIPS OUT. SAYS SHE HATES US REPEATEDLY, WITH A COLD HARD STARE. SHE SAYS SHE NO LONGER WANTS TO LIVE WITH US. ALL BECAUSE OF BASIC RULES??? IS THIS A PART OF ADD??

I HAVE TO SAY I AM LOSING STEAM. I AM EMOTIONALLY DRAINED (I KNOW YOU CAN RELATE) BUT, I AM ALSO BATTLING MULTIPLE SCLEROSIS AND IT CAN BE TOUGH MAKING IT THROUGH THE DAY UNDER NORMAL CIRCUMSTANCES (I DO KNOW THAT ALL OF US HAVE OUR OWN CROSSES TO BARE)

DO ANY OF YOUR TEENS DEFYE YOU AT EVERY TURN? ITS ONE THING TO BE UNORGANIZED, UNABLE TO FOCUS, FORGETFUL, ECT....BUT SHE WONT DO HOMEWORK, OR ANYTHING THAT HAS THE WORD "WORK" IN IT. SHE LETS HER ENTIRE WORLD COLAPSE AROUND HER, AND REALLY DOESNT CARE. SHE TELLS ME REPEATEDLY SHE DOESNT CARE. ANY WORDS OF WISDOM ARE WELCOME. DEANNA

My son at 16 can loose it sometimes if he doesn't know what the expectation is or I suddenly change the rules. I always tell him ahead of time about what the expectations are say in the morning etc. Since high school it was you get yourself up and out in the morning. I don't remind or talk a whole lot because he was always kind of grumpy etc. Get your bus in the morning but if you miss it thats fine you can pay me 5.00 to drive you. I refuse to argue about anything, and walk away if he starts, reaffirming calmly that I'm not argueing. If you have to separate yourself completely do it, leave the house, on the computer etc. Clearly let her know shes on her own and can handle routines by herself. If she can't she will soon learn to. My son gets to school with all his books, if not oh well its not my problem its his. Good Luck I find most kids say they don't care but really do.My daughter is almost 7 with ODD and my heart goes out to you Deanna. I so dread the teen years. If things get worse where I live they have where you can go to the court system and file a PINS (persons in need of supervision) against your child when you loose control. Here a family court judge listens to your child then you and can order your child to either comply with your requests as well as school issues or he/she can have her/him removed from the home and placed into setting for hard to reach kids and teens. I did a field placement once at one they have to earn everything and it is very structured and they even have to earn homevisits. Once they pass the requirements they can return home again. You can also recieve family counseling while going through this. I wish you the best Jill[QUOTE=lindab]

I think all the suggestions above are good ones. I just wanted you to know that you are not alone....PLUS my husband left 3 weeks ago because he could not stand the situation and the way my son acts. So I have to cope with this alone. Good luck and hang in there. I do beleive that we can help them...we just have to keep trying and not give up.

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Oh, how nice your husband dumps it all on you. I guess it shouldn't surprise me....after all I rarely see any man on here seeking help for their children. I'm so very sorry. But you do seem to have the determination it will take to do what is best for your kids.

[QUOTE=lindab]

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Oh, I am sooo sorry for you! I wish i was there to give you a hug and a hanky! Going this alone will be hard, you are sooo right. Do you have family near by so you can take a breather every now and then? I wish there was some thing I can do for you both. All I can offer is my prayers for all of you. My son is only 8 (almost 9), and am not there yet. But, for the most part he has the fear of God in him about his behavior and his mouth. I'm not saying he's perfect and it won't be hard, but he knows the mouth will get him in trouble.

Do either of you have any advice to offer for me/us, in the hopes that it will not happen to my son? I am serious, is there any thing you feel I can learn from your situation, so I will start working on them now? This just scares the heck out of me!

[QUOTE=ogram]pammer, by any chance are you psm?

[/QUOTE] I was thinking the same thing.

The only things teens care about these days is getting money for chores. The rest doesn't matter to them. Some have to learn things the hard way in life. Let the school handle school problems and parents handle home problems. pammer, by any chance are you psm?

Deanna, I truly do understand your issues. I too am dealing with a defiant teenager...my 16 year old son. But I also have a daughter who is 15. Some of what you are describing sounds like girl issues..my daughter will often refuse to do things like go to school unless she has the specific outfit she wants and it takes threats to get to do what we want. But your daughter does sound like my son too. He is so defiant anytime he does not get what he wants or is punished for something. Last night he was told that he could not watch tv for 1 day for something he did. He denied doing it many times and then escalated to cursing, slamming doors, yelling and throwing furniture around ( garbage cans and folding tables...no one hurt) calling me names, etc. I added a few more days of punishment for his actions and he continued to escalate. I went upstairs to let him cool off and he came up and packed a bag. He continue to throw things and threaten to hit me so I called the police. ( this is not the first time he has thrown things around but I have been trying to be understanding). He is in therapy. When he realized that I called the police he ran out the back door. I explained the situation to them when they arrived and they talked to him and he promised to be cool the rest of the night. When he came in he was angry and said that he could no longer trust me becasue I had called the police on him and that he would not be talking to me anymore.

This morning he is still sleeping but he is responding to my questions and did take his meds when I asked him to. I called his dr who prescribes his ADD meds ( a psychiatrist) and made an appointment to take him in today to discuss the situation and hopefully get some meds for him. We cannot continue to live like this.

ok, with that info alone, you really should try the community service work! You have not tried it yet, have you? Give you daughter a since of purpose. I would take away every pleasure item she has. No tv, not phone, no games, no friends at the house, no sports, and nothing else that she takes pleasure in. Then, tell her she has the rules (have the written down), make her a deal. Find a happy medium and make her prove she will do her part FIRST! Then give in.

How do you all discipline her?

With all due respect, I'm 53 and raised three kids to adulthood, one a very difficult teen. My advice would be to stop trying different things yourself. You aren't getting anywhere and I'm pretty sure this child has more going on than ADHD or teen defiance. There is teen defiance and then there is teen out-of-control, which, unfortautnely, we experineced. We tried to do it ourselves with daughter until she ended up on parole (twice) and it was taken out of our hands. I know how frustrating evaluations on these kids can be, especially when you had bad luck the first time, but I'd try again. You only have four years to help her (and, as hard as it is to want to help a mean child, she needs your help more than your nicer kids). Any advice we give is a shot in the dark, since we don't know what's wrong with her. Maybe an Adolescent Psychiatrist can help you pin it down. Perhaps a NeuroPsych is better. Has she ever seen either? If so, things become more apparent in the teen years. I'd give it another go, and also do the drug testing. If THAT is going on (and we had no clue it was) and if it spirals out of control, you really have a mess. In our experience, kids that are that degree of defiant don't respond to either positive reinforcement or punishment, either because they are too out of control to do what they are told or because they are too sick to care what happens to them. No kid deliberately wants to wake up each day, ruin your life, and ruin her own (even if it seems that way at times

(((Hugs))) and I wish you both the best. Never give up. pammar38965.2233333333

ok, i'm older now so i will share some of my personal story outlines. I'm adhd and married, 34, and raising an adhd boy. So here is my bit:

Her not following the rules is partly a test. there are so many kids that have parents that do NOT care where their kids are it makes the peer pressure even worse. I would have NEVER told either of my parents that i hated them. I knew better! what kind of punishment do you have her do? At this age, the best things are the most odd things. I agree with the drug testing, you should really do that. I don't know or even think she is using drugs, but better to be safe than sorry. I didn't use drugs when i was that age, but they were there for the taking. that came later for me and was a VERY short few months and then i moved on. I would make her do some community service. Have her work at a homeless shelter, good will, child welfare department, soup kitchen, hospital, crisis center, Church thrift closet, or even a police department. That will teach her to respect herself and in turn, she will respect you.

When i was that age, i was a bit defiant, but not to that extreme. i do not think it's adhd related. I'd bet she is getting all kinds of ideas at school from her friends that have way too much free time on their hands. (that was part of my problem).

I strongly suggest that you give her free time and bend the rules ONCE IN A WHILE, but make her earn it! have a set number of community service hours before she gets to stay out later or stay at a friends house when she really should be at home. chances are, she will do one of 2 things; do the hours and find that her life is not bad and you are a loving mom that is willing to compromise or she will not do the hours and decide to just stay mad. I'd bet she takes the hours. Have her make a commitment and then keep it. If she does it, you should reward her. Treat her like an adult with some responsibilities and you will get what you want, a more respectable teen ager and she will get to be treated the way she is begging for. *it's a win, win situation* And the big bonus is that she will be seeing and experiencing a total different way of life and see other fields she could pursue when she gets out of high school and goes off to college.

Hope this helps.

HI ALL, I HAVE DONE EVERYTHING THAT YOU ALL HAVE SUGESTED. BEEN THROUGH THE DIFFENT WAYS OF PUNISHING, REWARD SYSTEMS, DRUGS TESTS, BLOOD TESTS, PSYCOLOGISTS, PSYCIATRISTS, EVALUATIONS, BOOKS, DIFFERENT TACTICS.

TRUST ME....I KNOW THINGS WILL GET WORSE FROM HERE. IN MY GUT, I KNOW YOU ARE ALL RIGHT. I JUST WANTED SOME VERIFICATION. NOW THAT IVE STOPPED CRYING...I CAN TELL YOU ABOU THIS MORNING. TODAY WAS THE FIRST DAY OF SCHOOL. I TRIED TO PREPARE HER YESTERDAY, AND HAD HER PREPARE HERSELF. 3 TIMES I ASKED, " IS YOUR ALARM SET? ARE YOU SURE ITS SET? 3 TIMES." WELL GUESS WHAT?? I JUST GOT UP AND SHE JUST WOKE. SHE HAD 15 M,INUTES TO GET READY. WHEN SHE HAD A FEW MINUTES LEFT SHE REFUSED TO COME DOWN FROM UPSTAIRS, FLAT OUT REFUSED, THE THREATENED NOT TO GO AT ALL. MY HUSBAND CAME IN AND TOLD HER TO COME DOWN TO GET THE BUS. SHE REFUSED HIM TOO. SO NOW I HAD TO DRIVE HER (ITS A BIGDEAL FOR ME BECAUSE I HAVE BLADDER ISSUES...SORRY THATS GROSS :( WHEN SHE GETS DOWNSTAIRS, I LOOK OUTSIDE AND REALIZE THE BUS WAS LATE, SO I SAID, "HURRY, IT DIDNT COME YET...GO OUT" SHE SAYS , "NO! IM NOT RUNNING OUT THERE!" SHE WAS AT THE DOOR WITH THE BUS PULLING UP THE STREET AND REFUSED TO LEAVE!! I STARTED CRYING, MY HUSBAND CAME IN AND THREATENED HER AND SHE RAN OUT THE DOOR. WHAT A MORNING. WHEN WE TELL HER TO DO SOMETHING, SHE FLAT OUT REFUSES AND MAKES THREATS. I WILL HAVE HER RE0EVALUATED. SOMETHING MUST BE DONE NOW. THANKS FOR THE ADVICE. I WILL TAKE ALL I CAN GET. DEANNA

I HAVE TO SAY I AM DYING INSIDE. THIS IS NOT GETTING BETTER. THE HATRED IN HER VOICE, IN HER FACE AND EYES, ITS SCARY. SHE DOESNT BUDGE FROM THE "I HATE YOU....I DONT CARE" ATTITUDE. SHE HOLDS STRONG. I CANNOT FIGURE THIS OUT. NO MATTER WHAT I DO, NOTHING WORKS. I THINK SHE NEEDS MOOD STABILIZERS.

I AM EXHAUSTED.

DEANNA

My son was not always defiant. It all just happened in the last 2 years or so. He and the husband had some run-ins but I just thought it was growing pains. But the husband has no insight into ADD or ODD and WONT read anything I give him. He also refused counseling. His negative energy was really a hinderance to any progress and I was trying to get up the nerve to ask him to leave. Yes I am alone handling this but he was no help when he was here. But leaving me to handle all of this is just unforgiveable.

I did have to lie to the son to get him to the dr today. I told him that the dr wants to see him to talk about the Daytrana patch ( which he has been on for several weeks) and wants to hear it from him. If I tell him its about last night he wont go and we will have another show-down. I know its hard but hang in there .....and Momiss2 is right ...arguing is a waste of time with teenagers. I am reading the Defiant Child by dr. Douglas Riles and it has been very helpful...

WE went to the dr and she agreed that his behavior was over the top and out of control. She prescribed meds for him and they start tonite. He was a bit surprised at her response and how seriously she was taking this ( I was glad bcz some doctors discount the issues that we bring to them) . And I think it surprised him when I told him that his sister was frightened of him because of his threats. He reluctantly agreed to take the meds. Our plan is to use them temporarily until he gets better control of himself. Dr. wants a report from me on FRiday as to how he is doing and tolerating the meds.

Somewhere I felt in his heart that he wanted help and maybe even felt a little relieved...but they can never admit it. My calling the police last night surprised him but it showed him that I was VERY serious about what behavior I will not tolerate at home. And then going to the dr today, I think sent him a STRONG message. He was VERY calm and mellow today...hiding in the headphones of his CD player.

I will keep you advised as to how the meds are working.

Great news. keep us posted! I am happy the dr took it seriously. what did te dr prescribe?She prescribed .5 mg of risperdal. I was reading elsewhere on the internet on a mental health message board that sometimes the meds for the ADD can be reduced once the mood stabilizer is added. Wouldnt that be nice? I never liked the stimulants but had to use them to keep him on task and focused. But when I reflect on it he was originally put on meds bcz of acting out behavior at school...hitting others, impulsive acts, etc. I have always been concerned about the long range effects of stimulants on the brain and other body organs. It would be nice if this was more mood than ADD... Wow! you mean, I might actually get a happy child to replace the irritable touchy teenager that I currently have?

Hey, I just noticed I am no longer a Newbie....Im a Groupie !!!! YEA!!!!

i don't know any thing about mood stabelizers, but i know several people that need them. lmao (

sorry, i just had too, youre not a newbie any more so i thought i would break you in.

)Just want everyone to know that son has been on risperdal for 2 days and I think I see some changes. This evening he did his chores without being asked ( garbage was out at the curb when I came home from work) and he was in good spirits. When dau and I were arguing about her bad attitude this evening he intervened and tried to mediate the situation ( he has NEVER done ANYTHING like that) . He also told her jokingly "dont talk to my mom like that" I have NEVER heard him say anything like that...EVER....you must also take into consideration that TV was taken away on Monday and he has not seen it since then. Also he was trying to impress me tonite to regain TV privileges....well after getting a few more little chores out of him I did reward him by giving TV...with a 1am limit ( he has not started school yet). Also you should also know that his daytrana patch fell off awhile ago ( not sure when ) but he does not have it on....so far so good....I will keep you posted. [QUOTE=lindab] You wont believe it ( or maybe you will ) but when I went to
give his meds he refused to take them telling me that he doesnt need them
bcz he is not angry now. We argued about it for about 10 minutes and finally
said that I would take him to the hospital and admit him involuntarily if he
refused to take the meds. Finally he took it. It has gotten to the point where
the dau and I are staying away from him to avoid his negative behavior. And
he just doesnt get it!!!� God, I hope this works...[/QUOTE]
My mom did the same thing to me when i was about his age. Except she did
take me to the hospital. That was a really bad experience!

I AM REALIZING THAT SHE NEEDS SOME TYPE OF DEPRESSION MEDS. BUT HERE ARE THE ANSWERS.

SHE HAS BEEN TO THE PEDIATRICIAN, 2 PSYCOLOGISTS, 1 PSYCIATRIST (SHE STILL GOES TO)

SHE ONLY HAS THE DX OF ADD, BUT THAT WILL CHANGE WHEN I INSIST THAT SOMETHING ELSE IS WRONG

SHE HAS ONLY EVER TAKE FOCALIN 15 MG, FOR OVER 3 MONTHS

THE CHANGES IN HER LIFE HAVE BEEN, ; WE MOVED, DIFFERENT HOUSE SAME TOWN SAME SCHOOL, ME DX WITH MULTIPLE SCLEROSIS (SHE KNOWS WHAT IT CAN DO BECAUSE MY SISTER HAS IT), HER UNCLE WHOP SHE LOVED GOT SICK AND DIED HE HAD DOWNE SYNDROME.

HER TEACHERS CANNOT STAND HER, THEY SAY SHE IS IMMATURE, THEY CONSTANTLY SAY NEGATIVE THINGS ABOUT HER EVEN AFTER THE DX, THEY CONSTANTLY COMPLAIN ABOUT HER ATTITUDE, SHE'S RUDE, COLD, IGNORANT, INSENSITIVE, IMMATURE, DOESNT CARE. DOESNT TURN HOMEWORK IN.

SHE WAS EVALUATED BY THE SCHOOL OVER THE SUMMER AND ITS BEEN 2 MONTHS AND NO REPLY WITH THE RESULTS

MY HUSBAND AND I ARE BOTH THE DISCIPLINARIANS, BUT HE IS MORE STRONGER THAN ME.

WE HAVE GROUNDED, TAKEN THINGS AWAY 9NOT FOR TOO LONG) PUNISHEMENTS ARE IMMEDIATE. WE ALSO REWARD, BUT IT HAS BEEN A WHILE BECAUSE SHE HAS BEEN REFUSING TO COMPLY WITH ANY RULES.

HER ADD WAS ALWAYS THERE, THE MOOD DISORDER STARTED 2 YEARS AGO AT PUBERTY AND HER MENSTRUAL CYCLE

HER BEHAVIOR IS BAD ALL DAY, NO WORSE TIME. ITS ALWAYS THE SAME. NEVER ABREAK FROM IT.

WE HAD DRUG TESTS DONE, BLOOD TESTS DOPNE FOR ANY PHYSICAL PRIBLEMS, ALL NEGATIVE.

HER FRIENDS DO NOT HAVE THE SAME ISSUES SHE DOES.

I HAVE ALOT OF PHONE CALLS TO MAKE TOMORROW, I WILLNEVER GIVE UP. NEVER. ITS JUST THAT I AM SO EXHAUSTED. I NEED TO SLEEP ON IT. THAKS AND TAKE CARE, DEANNA

mood stabelizers work really well! I'm on them and they help to calm me
down a lot. They help with both my Bipolar and ADHD.

Hand in there Deanna!!!!!

WE start mood stabilizers tonite. I will let you know how it goes.

I KNOW how you feel. It is VERY hard to admit that there is something else going on beside ADD. It was hard to accept that diagnosis and now here comes another one that is more adult, more serious..and it requires another medication. Seems like our kids live on medication...I tried to look the other way and find any other excuse for his actions and behavior. And perhaps Im even thankful that his behavior has excalated because it is making us do something about it. If he was just cranky, irritable, verbally abusive, etc maybe I would just keep struggling with it. But the throwing furniture and having to call the police was over the top for me...and I took him to the dr today.

Make your calls in the morning and get her some help. In NJ where we live there are Crisis Centers in each county where kids and adults can be evaluated for psychiatric crisises. And remember I lied to my son to get him to the dr. Alls fair in love and war !!! Remember this is not her, this is an illness that you are battling.

Good luck

[QUOTE=n1Lady]

I AM EXHAUSTED.

DEANNA

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ok, let's get detailed...i'm going to give you a list of questions, you don't have to answer any or all, just some food for thought for us to help you a bit more and having some more info will aid us in that. This in NO way is an attack or a "pick apart". it's just some things that people might need to know in order to help you, help your daughter...

how many dr's has she been to what kind of drs were they what were each drs dx what kind of meds has she been on (all and which ones at the same time would be helpful) has there been any dramatic changes in her life (personal, school, family, friends or other) What do her teachers say does she have 504 or a detailed IEP who is the heavy disciplinary in your home how do you punish/discipline her (listing all will help) how old was she when it started is there any particular time her behavior is worse have you had a complete blood work up to check for any hormone unbalances do any of her friends have the same problems have you given her a drug test

I hope you can answer at least some of these so people here might be able to point you in the right direction. My heart goes out to you! ~~**~~ (that is me hugging you)

Deanna-

tips for you :

1) make cups of chamomile tea to calm your nerves

2) go to Bj's and buy yourself some roses ( only for 2 dozen)

3) lock yourself in your bedroom with whatever your choice of drink is and either pizza or a decadent dessert and watch a good movie

4) a long bath with bubbles and lavender oils

5) do you have any pets? If not get one. I know this sounds crazy and like more work but we have ( in addition to the 2 nutty teenagers) 4 cats and 2 dogs ( bichon frise) and my favorites are the male dog ( Bullet) and 1 cat. When my nerves are frazzled I curl up in the bed with the cat and let her purr soothe me or I rub the dog's tummy and kiss him and all my worries just melt away. Remember, our pets always love us no matter what.

Treat yourself to something soothing... TODAY!!!!!

Jt think happy thoughts.

And everything will be okey dokey!

Try not to worry yourself too much!You wont believe it ( or maybe you will ) but when I went to give his meds he refused to take them telling me that he doesnt need them bcz he is not angry now. We argued about it for about 10 minutes and finally said that I would take him to the hospital and admit him involuntarily if he refused to take the meds. Finally he took it. It has gotten to the point where the dau and I are staying away from him to avoid his negative behavior. And he just doesnt get it!!! God, I hope this works...

HI ALL,

LAST NIGHT I JUST FELT LIKE GIVING UP, MY HUSBAND TOO. HE HAS NO STEAM LEFT. THIS MORNING WHEN I WOKE UP, IV'E LOST PART OF MY HEARING, (FEELS LIKE I HAVE COTTON STUFFED IN MY EAR) AND I AM HAVING A LITTLE TROUBLE WITH MY LOW BACK AND LEGS. THIS IS WHAT HAPPENS TO ME AS A RESULT OF THE STRESSES OF THIS SITUATION. WHEN IT GETS REALLY BAD, I WILL WAKE UP THE NEXT DAY WITH AN "MS EPISODE"

I WILL WORK HARD TODAY TO GET CHRISTINA STARTED ON SOMETHING FOR DEPRESSION. I HAVE ALOT OF PHONE CALLS TO MAKE.

I WANTED TO LET YOU ALL KNOW HOW MUCH YOU ARE APPRECIATED

LOVE DEANNA

Esmom38987.2836111111yes, this sounds promising. I guess i need to try the "mood therapy" option before though. I think this type of programwill be my last resort. We do have childrens hospital here in philadelphia. i am almost positive they have a program like this. thanks for the info. deanna

((((Deanna))))) It must be so hard to deal with your health issues and a difficult teen.

You've received lots of sound advice. So I'll offer you hugs.

Hang in there !!

Deanna

are you in Philly?

Im in Jersey (giggle)

why is the time on this message board not Eastern standard?