Band Teacher of ADHD kids, Suggestions? | ADHD Information
Does this child have an IEP or a 504?Jennifer,
I agree totally with joesmom about the type of parent you are dealing with here. She is an ADHD mother whose strong love for her son has completely blinded her to reason. Due to her background in education, she was already prone to what I call "over advocate" for her son. Her attempts to help her son have completely blown up in her face, and she is reacting by digging her heels in... both with you AND him. She has spent years fighting for his rights ..... she sees it as her mission in life and her main role in life.
You see......I see a little of myself in her when my child was younger. We all (mothers of ADHD children) may see a little of her in ourselves. The truly wise mother, however, learns that as our ADHD children get older into the teen years...... our roles change. It is our job to shift responsibility to our teens.....ESPECIALLY our ADHD teens. This mother hasn't figured this out. She is the ultimate control freak.....controlling her son, you, administrators, etc.
Its highly unlikely you can bring this mother around using what I call "front door" confrontational tactics. You will have to use "back door" tactics. Try to form an alliance. NOT an easy task....... you will need professional guidance. That's why I asked if you could get the counselor involved. You need someone advising you that understands psychology and negotiation tactics well.
For example. You've dug your heels in on your attitude to give the child a 3rd chance at an audition. I can certainly understand why you feel this way. Remember, however, you are dealing with a control freak mother whose dug her heels in as well on the notion that EVERY NEGATIVE BEHAVIOR her son is displaying (and causing you GREAT distress) hinges on this 3rd audition. Fine.... Let's suppose you relax your position and decide to let him have a 3rd chance. Now..... we all know that this child's negative behaviors probably have little or squat to do with him getting into a higher level band. But mom is convinced, probably wrongly, that this is the case. In order to blow her theory out of the water.....you set up a 3rd chance audition, let him miss that one like the others, then her theory is blown. Case closed.
In the alternative, he may show up for the audition fired up, ready to play. He may do an outstanding job, which may show he really IS interested in pursuing band.
I guess my point here is if I were in your situation..... I would not dig my heels in. I would use a strategy that would throw off this over zealous mom.
Good luck and keep us posted. This is a great thread! You sound like a very caring teacher. Do not let this destroy your compassion for all ADHD children and ADHD moms. This woman represents an extreme in the parenting world. No doubt this is enormously stressful on you right now.....but in the end, you will have learned a lot from this challenge.
Okiemom
I would just initiate a friendly conversation with the child and find out whether he wants to be in band. Perhaps that is the problem. He doesn't want to, and no one is listening. He's in 10th grade--he shouldn't be forced to participate if he does not want to. Maybe this is simply the mom's agenda. If the boy says, yes, I actually do want to be in band, then you'll have to go down another road. But if he does not want to, the solution is simple. Let him drop out. Talk to the principle. Maybe this should be done in an IEP or 504 meeting with the boy present. If the mother does not hear it come out of his mouth herself the problem continues. I would not spend a lot of my personal time dealing with this woman. I think calling an IEP or 504 meeting is the way to go. Document the resolution in the 504 or the IEP. The team needs to handle this, not you. She's just not reasonable or logical. NoTellin38968.3899305556MY OPINION IS NO CHILD SHOULD STAY IN A ACTIVITY THEY ARE NOT ENJOYING CAUSE THEY WON'T PRACTICE EITHER. I SAY FINISH THAT TERM AND MOVE ON TO ANOTHER INTEREST.
LILLIAN - this child is 504 and on an IEP. I do follow it strictly, not only because it's the law but because he needs those modifications such as preferential seating, etc.
OKIEMOM, I sincerely appreciate your comments. I can tell you are really an advocate of both teachers and ADHD kids. I think you have changed my mind on the 3rd chance audition. I will talk with my coworker and see if he will agree, too. After that audition, it might cure some problems with the mother thinking he is misplaced. I think the term "over advocate" is appropriate for her. I think forming an alliance is a great idea. Having someone skilled in negotiating with the mom will be so helpful since I am really inexperienced in that realm. I know I will be learning a lot from this experience. My mom said that the reason it upsets me so much is that I am a caring, nurturing teacher, and the one kid who isn't taking care of business is frustrating me. I guess I want everyone enrolled in band to at least enjoy the experience, but I know I can't make it happen. I wish I knew how to stop thinking about him during my free time at home when work is over. I constantly think about and evalute the situation, and I guess that's why I found this message board - reaching for more help.
NOTELLIN - thank you for your comments! His mother is forcing him to be in band. We would let him drop out, but his mother insists that he be in band, and in our school district, the parents are the ultimate decision factor in what subjects their children are enrolled in. I would love to have a big group meeting involving a counselor and the principal, that's a great idea! I would love to speak with him around all of those people and his mother, and get to the bottom of this situation.
IVANHOE - right on! I am praying that he will finish this semester in band and then try another activity. Just because he isn't enrolled in band class doesn't mean he can't enjoy playing music. I wish I could get that message across more clearly to his mother.Did he a functional behavioral analysis done and a BIP written, as a result? Have you talked to his other teachers? How well does he behave in their classes?LILLIAN - I don't know anything about a functional behavioral analysis or a BIP, but I bet we will be getting a BIP as a result of his behavior recently. There have got to be some rules that both he and I can agree to for him to remain in band.
The teachers of this child met a few weeks ago. Some teachers report that he is NO PROBLEM, and 3 of us were incredulous to that fact! Turns out, it's the 3 classes he doesn't want to be in where he is the most trouble. The principal thinks he is trying to get kicked out of those classes so he can try the classes he really wants. His mother put him in the 3 classes he doesn't want - a foreign language and an AP class where he won't do any work, and of course band.
MrsJennifer,I feel for you. I am the mother of an 11th grade ADHD band student. One of the things that is mandatory in the HS band program is lessons. The kids are to get a pass from a class each week and attend lessons. Our son decided he didn't need to go to lessons. We, of course, did not agree with our son. His grades in band were pathetic, partly due to the lesson thing, partly due to attitude. Freshman year he squeeked through. Sophmore year, more of the same. The band director decided that he would no longer be in percussion (he played drums since 3rd grade and loved it, but he has a lot of raw talent.) He was put on the baritone. Sophmore year, he again refused to go to most lessons and he was disruptive in class. I give the band directors a lot of credit for putting up with my son's behavior as long as they did. At the end of last year, we had a meeting with the band directors. They laid it on the line and my husband and I one hundred percent agreed with the directors. They said that if our son wanted to continue in band then changes had to be made. They believed that he was in band only because of the "social" benefits of band and did not care at all about music. We agreed. He was given a week to make up his mind if he was serious about band or not. I, frankly, was ready to tell him he could not be in band because I did not see him wanting to play the instrument. He insisted he wanted to continue and promised to practice. Over the summer I told him he had to practice a certain number of hours in a week if he wanted to be in band the next year. The first two times he was made to practice were like WWIII. After that, he willingly practiced. He attended the summer workshops for marching band and did well with them. He went to every day of the two week band camp and exceeded expectations. He is now the best baritone player in the school and expects to get first chair. What turned him around? I don't know, maybe the threat of no longer being in band. I spoke with the band director at the picnic and he is reserved but pleased with what he sees. Only time will tell if this lasts, but for now, we are enjoying the success.
I agree with Okiemom that it sonds like things at home could be very troubling. In some ways, I understand the mom because those of us with ADHD kids always have to fight so hard for our kids rights. However, she is abusing her position in education and as an ADHD parent. She makes those of us who are trying to work with teachers have a much harder time. It is high time to find some real help for this boy and find out what is troubling him. If he does not want to be in band, he should not be there. However, it is so important to find out why he does not want to be there. It sounds like he is really looking for some kind of help.
I would certainly follow the advice of Okiemom, inabox and joemom. I can't add anything to them. Just that I hope this all works out for you and him. You are ceratinly caught in the middle, but if you handle it right, you can make a big difference in this childs life. Music, dance, arts in general are extremely theraputic to these kids. If they can be encouraged to pursue these things, it will help them. Patience is key with ADHD kids. Good luck.
ADDIZFAKE, While I appreciate your opinion, I happen to believe ADHD is real. I am not able to "suspend" a student because that is up to the administration.
JOEMOM, thanks for your response. We did schedule him for another auditon, and he chose not to show up. The mother blames us and says we did not remind him enough, even though she should have reminded her son herself as well. And I did remind him that very day that we were expecting to hear him later on. I do agree that he is bored in that class, but the problem is that THAT is the level he is on. He needs fundamentals. I do think he likes to show off. I am concerned about moving him up because I feel like that is a reward a student earns. This child did not earn it because he missed the audition twice. I don't want to give him another audition. Everybody else gets one shot, why should he get 3 chances? I think you're right about peer pressure, but I'm concerned that some of those kids may come down to his level instead of bringing him up to their level. The next band up is still kind of lower level. The mother of this child does enjoy fighting, not only the ADHD fight but also the "racist card".
KATHIGOO, thanks for your response. I really liked reading your story about your son. Sounds like he was forced to mature a little, and he chose to accept the challenge. Good for him!!! I think you are right about the mother abusing her position as an educator and mother. She is unreasonable sometimes. When I ask her for help, she says "I need YOUR support if I'm going to support you", but I don't know how better I can serve them. I refuse to be forced into promoting him into a higher band because #1 he doesn't play at that level and #2 his behavior must improve to warrant a promotion. Her #1 argument is that all of the problems will cease if we will just promote him so he won't be bored. I can't get her to understand that he will be bored no matter what! The music we're playing right now is marching band music, and this kid isn't marching due to a sport conflict. I feel like I can't win, and the mom is putting me down for not doing more to entertain her son.
MrsJennifer,
Could you give him another audition? Do you thinkt he child would want to be in a different band class? Do you think that perhaps he is bored with the lower band and wants to show off? ( Just a few questions) If he does get moved to a higher band he might just not get away with his behavior as the typically the students in the higher level music classes are quite serious and peer pressure works wonders sometimes.
So sorry the mother is a PITA. I have been a teacher for several years and I know the type of parent you are taking about ...it seems that this type really would just rather fight and get on some soap box. It is truly more about her agenda and she wants to WIN.
good luck with everything
INABOX, thanks for your reply. He claims he hates band, and his mother claims that he loves band. I have no idea why he would tell me one thing and his mother another thing. He plays his instrument fine, and I suspect he is placed in the right band because he needs more fundamentals work before he can move up. His mother is also forcing him to take some other classes that he doesn't want. He did sign up for private tutoring, but his mother hasn't responded to my phone call about a teacher, so I don't know how interested they are in that. Hopefully she will respond about that soon.
OKIEMOM, thanks for your reply. I bet you are correct about the problems at home. I really like your suggestion about getting with this student and a counselor to talk through this in a non-threatening manner. The school district where I teach is definitely heavy on pleasing parents. I like our principal, but I don't know yet how supportive she will be when/if it comes to me vs. the mom. The child is on an IEP, and I am meeting his accommodations to the letter.
Forgot to mention, the mother does have a lawsuit pending from a year or two ago regarding discrimination against her child, and she is well educated on ADHD and I believe she works in the education field, possibly as a teacher or administrator. You can imagine my level of intimidation with this woman, she seems to love putting me down. She cuts me off in the middle of sentences, but then if I interject, she pulls the old "Can I speak? I let you talk, now you need to let me speak so you can hear me".
I find it so difficult to communicate with her verbally. I wonder if I can continue correspondence with her only via e-mail or fax? She sticks up for him so hard that she can't even see my side. Everything he does, she dismisses as a ADHD characteristic. It's exasperating to me, I've got to find some peace about it.
Do your job, suspend him from school. A one week suspension is in order. Don't let his fake disease fool you.Hi,
I'm brand new here but I'm so frustrated as a new teacher. I would love to have your suggestions and input on my situation.
I have a 10th grade student who is ADHD in the last band at the high school where I teach. He chose not to audition at the end of last school year, and was automatically placed into the last band because of that fact. He is acting out in class by talking constantly, hitting his horn, making "beat box" noises, talking back to me, not raising his hand to speak or ask a question, and refuses to sit properly in class. He tells me every day how much he hates band and wants to quit. This example he is setting affects the classroom climate in a major way - the kids respond to him and the class literally has a good day or a bad day depending on his mood and reaction to my directions or comments towards him. He even sits there and stares me down when I say something to him, such as "see me after class", and refuses to participate at all!
I have communicated via e-mail and phone with his mother. She treats me horribly, accusing me of not understanding that her son needs to be promoted into a higher band. We even bent the rules to allow him to audition last week, and the child didn't even care to show up to audition! His mother is demanding that we give him another chance to audition, even though they were all aware of the audition date! The mother is well-versed in ADHD and really tries to make it seem like I am not understanding the need for her son to be promoted. I refuse to be goaded into promoting a student with that sort of behavior and attitude in class. I feel like ADHD is one thing, and I have SEVERAL students who have it, but out and out acts of defiance towards the teacher is nothing more than childish, rude behavior that even ADHD children need to be held accountable for.
The mother demands that her son stay in band, even though he is miserable. I do feel very sorry for him in that respect.
What can I do to better this situation? I have given him office referrals, I have talked with his mother repeatedly, I have conferred with the student and with other teachers about him, but I am tapped out and emotionally exhausted from teaching him. One student should not cause me this much frustration and anger, and it makes me mad that I think about him so much.
Thank you for your advice!!!
Why don't you ask him? What does HE want? Why does he want to quit? Maybe a new instrument will work out better? Maybe he's having a hard time with the one he's using? Is he good at what he does (playing wise)? Maybe you can try encouraging him and ask him point blank, what it is he's needing.
Maybe no one's listening to him and he really ought to quit band if that's what he really wants to do.
How about some one-to-one? Is there a student in your class or previous class who can peer-tutor him? Kids with ADHD tend to be more impulsive. Maybe you can have some non-verbal cues for him so it doesn't sound as if he's always in trouble.INaBOX38967.8745023148Hi Jennifer,
I am the mother of an 8th grade child in band who also has ADHD.
I really feel sorry for both you and him. I completely agree with you on the point that there is absolutely no excuse for this type of behavior... regardless of whether or not he has ADHD.
Have you brought this up with your administrators and the 10th grade counselor? There is some sort of really terrible and dysfunctional family dynamic going on between his mother and him I'd bet. My guess is that they are in one hellacious power struggle between the two of them and you are simply caught in the middle. Mom probably desparately wants here ADHD son in band because she knows that band kids are generally good kids and she wants her son involved with a positive group of kids. She knows without a "group" to identify with in high school.....a ADHD kids runs a high risk of turning to the really negative groups who are bad influences. I'd guess that is why shes forcing the band issue.
Is it possible you and the 10th grade counselor could get this kid into a private meeting....non threatening....WITHOUT his mother...where he could truly express what is bothering him? If Mom's involved....the kid won't be candid. Try to find out a little of this kid's band history in middle school and 9th grade. Did he used to show great interest in band in the earlier years, then suddendly start hating it? There are a zillion of possibilities as to why this child is showing such negative behavior. One thing for sure.....is it has to stop, for both your sanity and his. At this point....given he has a mother whose dug in her heels...... I'd try to use a softer tactic with him to try and get him on your side. My gut tells me something horribly wrong is going on with this child at home.
How supportive is your principal at this school? What policies are in place to cover extremely disruptive kids who are undermining the whole class? Is this child on an IEP where he has federal protection?
Okiemom
MISSOURIMOMMY - Thanks for your replies. I think you're right about preparing kids for entry to society, and the world will hold this kid accountable for his actions. In the future, police officers won't care if he's ADHD and he can't control his behavior, they'll care if he breaks the law. He needs to understand that there are consequences to his actions and poor choices. Impulse control is a major problem with this student, and his mother reminds me all the time that he is still a boy and not to expect him to act like an adult.
My problem as a new teacher is how to figure out what should be acceptable in my classroom from him. Should I allow him to slouch while he plays? Should I expect him to have his materials every day? Does he need to treat me with respect, or should I allow him to speak out without raising his hand? What specifically should I let slide or write him up for? None of those minor issues are covered in his IEP, and I'm tempted to write down all of my questions and e-mail or fax them to his mother after talking about them with a school counselor.
I do admire you for being concerned about what is acceptable for him and what is not. I can only voice my own opinions that I've formed from the experiences I've had thusfar with my 6 year old son. I'm sure perhaps other people on this board have lots more experience than I but this is how I feel:
I have not treated my ADHD/ODD son that much differently from my typically developing 3 year old son. I will say that I'm a little more understanding with him when it comes to his ability to focus attention for long periods of time and his ability to sit still for longer periods. Other than that, I expect him to do whatever is expected of him in different situations...including the classroom. If the rules are...you raise your hand before speaking..then that's what I expect him to be held accountable for....and so on. I would cringe if I thought that any teacher was letting him get away with behaviors which would not be acceptable to other children in the classroom. In my opinion..that's not truly helping my son. Actually it would be hurting him in the long run. I think if this child cannot abide by whatever your classroom rules are, then perhaps he needs a paraprofessional with him during the class to help him abide by the rules and be less disruptive to the other students. Perhaps only the perceived threat of this happening, will encourage him to clean up his act, if he in fact is able to. If he's not able to, then he needs the help anyway.
Good luck!
I am a mother of a 6 yr old with severe ADHD and ODD. I haven't had to deal with the teenage years but I fear them A LOT..lol. Your job as a teacher and a parent's job is to help prepare a child to be successful in society. Unfortunately even though this kid has ADHD, society WILL hold him responsible for his behavior and I think you should too. If he has an IEP, perhaps he needs a behavior plan as well. I wonder if yours is the only class he's showing his rear in? My guess would be no. I would think that if he is disrupting the class, he can be removed from it until such time that he can control himself.
One thing's for sure, it's not fair to the other kids who actually want to be there and if his mother can't understand that...too bad. I sure wouldn't allow him special priveleges by giving him another audition either. He's old enough by now to learn a few lessons about being responsible for his actions.
I'd like to add one more bit of useless advice..lol. I just don't see why the student should be treated any differently than any other child in this situation. I'm sure there are other kids whose parents are "making" them take classes that they do not want to take...and I'm sure THEY aren't acting out. This sounds completely like a behavioral problem and sounds like it has absolutely nothing to do with him having ADHD. Maybe I'm a little too tough in this situation but there will be things that this kid will HAVE to do in life whether he likes it or not.