Thoughts on stopping meds, your opinion? | ADHD Information
Experts report that taking medication, along with counseling, produces good results for people struggling with add and/or depression. My counselor told me that someone like myself, who was not diagnosed with add until adulthood, can learn new stragegies for coping while simultaneously taking medication. She suggests that cognitive strategies can produce chemical changes within the brain.This seems to make sense when considered in light of research on the brain and spinal cord. For example, researchers have reported that there is a biochemical link between how we think and the functional capacity of the neurotransmitters within the brain. There is also research that supports changes in the nervous system in individuals with spinal cord injuries (SCI's). Through exercise, folks with SCI's have regained the ability to walk by excitation to the nervous system through specific methods of training. This seems to suggest that pathways in our nervous system are plastic, and can therefore be changed....which leads to my curiousity about how this might translate into other conditions that are influenced by neurotransmitters, such as add.
Does anyone out there have any information or resources about how this might work with respect to add? Have any of you been able to use strategies, such as cognitive therapy, to overcome your add symptoms in such a way that ultimately allowed you to stop using your medications? If so, I would be interested in hearing from you. I have read posts here in the past from people who were involved with research and getting advanced degrees and I'm also curious to hear from them and what they have found in their studies.
Please share your thoughts on this topic
Master Mind39023.0246990741
Good questions. I think that you might be in error in thinking though that through therapy and meds you make radical changes to the brain's wiring. It's more subtle and takes work for life. I don't know that the meds can ever be removed and still get the same effect.
I take cognitive therapy and a regimen of dexedrine once or twice daily. The dexedrine keeps the balance of norepinephrine in my brain stable which allows me to control my urges and to focus my attention and thought. This in turn allows my therapy to "sink in" - which makes it work that much better.
Now - IF I decided to remove my meds I could make it ok - but just ok. I would again eventually fall victim to making rash decisions, having patches of my memory that don't retain as well due to not focusing long enough, and falling into obsessive looping over things that go wrong. So my question is - if it ain't broke, why fix it?
Many people get so bent over taking meds. Diabetics take insulin for life. Schizophrenics take lithium or other antipsychotics to stabilize, etc. Many illnesses and disorders must be regulated with safe effective meds. Why should ADHD be different?
Worry more about finding the right mixture of therapy and meds to make life go beyond tolerable to being enjoyable! I have and can tell you that life isn't just worth living it's worth savoring! I have had many successful relationships, made new friends and have not only a stable job but one where I value my coworkers and they me!
Focus on what matters. The rest is white noise that will only trip you on the way to a better life.
[QUOTE=Master Mind]My counselor told me that someone like myself, who was not diagnosed with add until adulthood, can learn new strategies for coping while simultaneously taking medication. She suggests that cognitive strategies can produce chemical changes within the brain.[/QUOTE]
MasterMind
I would like to know the sources that your counselor draws this thought from. I’ve studied as many research studies on ADD as I can get my hands on and I have never found something that even remotely suggests that through cognitive strategies one can produce chemical changes. He/she might be referring to neurofeedback treatment. However, outside of the neurofeedback medical community I’ve not seen anything that suggests the neurofeedback therapy does anything more than provide coping mechanisms.
[quote]This seems to make sense when considered in light of research on the brain and spinal cord.[/quote]
There’s a significant difference between something like a spinal cord injury, which is trauma (damage) to a part of the body, and a disorder that is most likely caused by genetic circumstances. (The relationship of genetics and ADD has not been conclusively proven, but evidence in a growing number of studies is slowly validating this as the cause, or the primary cause, of developing ADD.)
[QUOTE]....which leads to my curiosity about how this might translate into other conditions that are influenced by neurotransmitters, such as add.
[/QUOTE]
The issues is not neurotransmitters. The issue is production and limiting reabsorbtion of certain brain chemicals that facilitate communication between neurotransmitters. If there were truly therapies that would help a persons body to naturally produce more dopamine (for example) then that would be the biggest thing in ADD since it became a recognized disorder.
[QUOTE]Does anyone out there have any information or resources about how this might work with respect to add? Have any of you been able to use strategies, such as cognitive therapy, to overcome your add symptoms in such a way that ultimately allowed you to stop using your medications? [/QUOTE]
Yes to the benefit of cognitive therapies, no to then being able to stop using meds as a result.
Perhaps the question you need to answer for yourself is the risk/benefit of taking ADD meds long-term. My impression of your post is that this is the underlying concern that you have. Also, I am totally certain that your counselor means well, however, what he/she is suggesting to you appears to be troubling to me. That kind of discussion belongs elsewhere, not in a therapeutic environment. Especially if it is presented as being credible.
MaxDad
maxdad - the therapist isn't saying that it grows new tissue like a starfish makes a new limb. Even just memorizing or doing mental exercises will grow new pathways and neurons can be activated where they were dormant. That's the way the brain works.
The meds do regulate chemical pathways and can act like a school zone sign on a street. It doesn't create any brain changes but rather slows down the neural electrochemical reactions long enough to give the ADHD brain a chance to learn in a normal function. This in turn can create new memory engrams that won't degrade like when our short term memory isn't functioning properly.
I think it's all semantics here. What was said was changing chemicals and what it actually is is slowing the reuptake of the chemicals which virtually is the same if you look at a model of it. To keep the chemicals from bonding to receptors and being absorbed it does in fact increase the present level of them. Potatow potahtow.
I reiterate though that people should stop concentrating their thoughts on the irrational fear of meds due to the anti-med groups and instead focus on self improvement.
I can only contribute to this discussion as a first hand experience of therapy and medications. All through my life I have been in some type of therapy for unaccepatable behaviors at a very young age, and with no medication. As a teenager I was institutionalized with no meds and very intensive therapies. As a young adult, therapy on and off, no meds or meds that did not help. Now, the right medication, no therapy, great results!!! Go figure?
I think each person has to find out what works for them and be persistent with finding the right solution. 
[QUOTE=GlenW]
maxdad - the therapist isn't saying that it grows new tissue like a starfish makes a new limb. Even just memorizing or doing mental exercises will grow new pathways and neurons can be activated where they were dormant. That's the way the brain works.
[/QUOTE]
Glen
The overall message/question of the post is using cognitive therapies to produce brain chemicals to the point that meds are not needed. My response is strictly in the context of ADD. If there are cognitive therapies that are proven to permanently modify brain chemical functions to the point that meds are no longer needed then I would like to see the data.
MaxDad
Maxdad39024.5524421296 [QUOTE=ivanhoe]THE TRUTH IS MEDICAL PEOPLE BLAIM GENETICS WHICH ISN'T PROVEN ALL THE WAY. [/QUOTE]
Ivanhoe
As usual you make little to no sense. Especially the comment above since I have never seen you back up any of your wacky theories with credible facts.
MaxDad
Maxdad39024.5542939815Meds don't always help if there are comorbid diagnosises. Glen, certain vitamins can do the same based on where the levels are at. Check out neuroscienceinc.com I also will never change my belief that schools/politicians should get that people need to be taught in the style that fits their individual needs. My best friend type 1 diabetic and her insulin pump her diebetes is now under control.
SPINAL PROBLEMS CAN EFFECT NEURO IT IS WHAT SENDS THE MESSAGES TO THE BRAIN.
GLEN SEIZURES CAN EFFECT MEMORY ALSO. I HAD A BAD SEiZURE IN 8TH GRADE AND HAVE GAPS THAT NEVER HAD UNTIL THAT OCURRED.Attention meds didn't help me much what did help was the type of instruction I got in school. Private schooling cause they kept pulling different materials until a good match was found for me. Se is the only place this will and can happen.
THE TRUTH IS MEDICAL PEOPLE BLAIM GENETICS WHICH ISN'T PROVEN ALL THE WAY. IF THAT WERE 2 BOTH OUR KIDS SHOULD HAVE ATTENTION PROBLEMS. ALSO MY MIL CARRIES SPINA BIFIDA GENE NOT PASSED ON SO FAR.BOYS ARE 3 TIMES MORE LIKELY TO IN HERIT DISORDERS CAUSE NOT KNOWN WHY. I BELIEVE OUR TOXIC SOCIETY IS THE MAIN CAUSE! I ALSO SAY BLOOD/ URINE/ BRAIN TESTS RESULTS DON'T LIE EITHER.ivanhoe
Saying that genetics play a role in ADHD attention problems does not mean all children of 2 parents would have the disorder.
You are saying that genetics being the cause would mean that both of your children would have atttention problems. Do all children of 2 parents have the same eye color? That is genetics. Do all children of the same parents have the same hair color? That is genetics. Some children inherit traits more from one parent, some more from the other, some an equal mix. It is the luck of the genetic draw. Or do you not believe that genetics is the cause of eye/hair color either?
I have 4 children and only the oldest and the youngest have this disorder. They were all raised in the same house. 2 have brown hair, 1 is a strawberry blonde, and one is blonde. 3 have blue eyes 1 brown. Genetics.
Hello My Friends:WOW...great dialogue!!! Thanks so much for sharing. I haven't logged on for a few days and was happy to find your posts.
Glen was right...I think it is a matter of semantics. I'm still learning about this, so bear with me. Glen hit the nail on the head in explaining what I was referring to as chemical changes in the brain in terms of the impact that meds have on chemical pathways and how this influences the creation of memory engrams. My counselor also alluded to what Glen said about the meds helping the therapy to do what he refers to as "sinking in". I hope this clarifies what I meant a little better...thanks Glen, that was very well said:-))
Maxdad: I do have a reference that my counselor gave me with respect to her comment...she recommended that I read the book, "Molecules of Emotion" by Candece Pert. I haven't finished it yet but my understanding is that the author discovered something to do with peptides which provided a biochemical basis with respect to neurotransmitters and such. I'm sure that you could find the full text of her original research if you looked into it.
Moreover, if you're interested, you might be inclined to rent a DVD I came across for the sake of getting more clarification. It's called "What the bleep do we know" and the author of the book was on it. There are several other scientists in the video and they somehow link all this to quantum physics...but I couldn't begin to explain that part at this point.
The DVD uses a story to illustrate the principles behind what happens biochemically so don't let this throw you if you watch it....it goes into more depth as you get further into it. I thought this was worth mentioning in case you reacted in a similar fashion to me by feeling inclined a few minutes into it to interpret it as being nonsensical. I think it may have been made for a younger audience but I was referred to it by a friend who I was discussing the book with so I stuck it out till the end. Coincidently, and unbeknownst to my friend, it turned out that the author has a brief appearance in the video.
Also, aside from being curious from a phsiological perspective, a more pressing reason for my inquiry is because I am having trouble with managing the expense for the meds.
Soooo.....I'm just looking for other options and besides that, I find the science quite fascinating.
Have any of you read the book or seen the DVD I've mentioned?
MMMaster Mind39028.0426157407P.S.
The reason I brought up spinal cord injuries is because it strikes me that since motor pathways are "grooved" when we acquire skills in terms of movement (as in muscle memory), perhaps the process might resemble this in the brain. Maybe our thought processes work in a similar fashion, and if so, then it might stand to reason that the nervous system operates similarly within both the brain and the neuromuscular system. It seems to me that this might be somewhere along the lines of what my counselor was saying. Am I making sense in the manner that I'm explaining this....I may be getting ahead of myself since I haven't finished the book yet.Master Mind39030.7405324074