Test results for ds | ADHD Information
Ok, I got the test results from our therapist about my ds. Throughout this post the numbers are the scores for my ds. Maybe I typed it up so it can be understood.
His score for the Bender was 6.5 (middle of 1st grade level)
His score for IQ was 98 (average)
The Bender Gestalt evaluation is administered to determine perceptual, maturity, possible neurological impairment, and emotional adjustment.
Perception: Normal
Maturity: Normal
Possible neurological impairment: None detected
Emotional Adjustment: Usually corrected by medical intervention or intense counseling to insure behavior modification or both.
Here were my ds's scores on the behavior rating scale:
Inattentive: 21 (very high risk)
Impulsivity: 20 (very high risk)
Hyperactivity: 20 (very high risk)
Anger Control: 15 (at risk)
Academics: 17 (very high risk)
Anxiety: 10 (at risk)
Confidence: 12 (at risk)
Aggressiveness: 12 (at risk) (not to be confused with destructive)
Resistance: 15 (at risk)
Social: 9 (at risk)
Patient scoring eight or more on inattention, impulsivity and hyperactivity meet the criteria for attention deficit disorder with hyperactivity.
A few more scores to do with IQ:
VERBAL SCALED SCORES
Information(general knowledge, long-term memory from experience, education) 13: Rapid Learner
Similarities(Relationships & abstract thinking, association of abstract ideas) 12:Bright/average
Arithmatic (Reasoning, sequencing, computation, concentration) 11:Bright/average
Vocabulary (Word knowledge, verbal fluency, receptive and expressive vocabulary) 12:Bright/average
PERFORMANCE SCALED SCORES
Picture completion(visual memory & alertness to details) 13:Rapid learner
Picture arrangement(Interpretation of social situation, sequencing, visual alertness) 15:Very superior
Block Design(Reproduce design from pattern, visual perception) 19: Gifted
Coding(Speed and accuracy of learning meaningless symbols, immediate visual memory, motor coordination) 19:gifted
If the different areas of IQ scored high, why is the overall score in the average range? Are the individual areas normalized to 10 as an average score?I think that the teacher can recommend retention, but you can request that he be "placed" in the next grade vs "promoted" to the next grade. Meaning, you can reject the retention recommendation. You might want to look into that.
As for the preshool, my children did not learn anything except social skills at preschool, except for my youngest (the ADHD baby, now 10) who had speech issues. I read to them each night, exposed them to as many different experiences in life as possible (and those experiences had to be relatively inexpensive...we have never had much extra cash) and answered their questions about those experiences...you can go to a teacher supply store and purchase relatively inexpensive workbooks that have learning pages in them if you want to do that, but I really don't like seat work for preschoolers...let them color, and use pencils and safety scissors (with supervision), to create things, glue scraps of construction paper to each other, make your own playdoh (I have several great recipes if you need one), use uncooked pasta, and scraps of ribbon and other things we may consider trash to create a collage box, and relax.
If children are exposed to these things, they will learn.
My children only went to preschool to learn to play well with others, not to learn the ABC's, colors, and shapes...I taught them that.
As far as the socialization, call the library and check into story time, here that is free and they do a craft, and learn how to sit in a group to listen to an adult, make sure that they have plenty of opportunities to play with other children, in the neighborhood, at the park, etc. Heck in a sibling group of 3 they are already learning social skills just living in the same house together!
I used to be a preschool teacher and now I do home daycare and implement many of the same experiences into the home setting. PM me if you want some ideas.
chasesmom7939039.7470601852First, I would want the conversation you had with the teacher in writing, particularly the part where she has recommended retention and that you and your husband need to create a "mini school" at home to reteach your son the concepts he is having difficulties acquiring in school. I would do this by summarizing the conversation you had with the teacher, writing a letter to her with the summary, thanking her for the meeting, and sending it via email, so you have a date at the top of the page. I would send it tomorrow or Monday, but because Thanksgiving holidays are next week, I would wait until the week after for a response.
Be sure to include in the letter the research you have been doing on your son's test scores, and you are excited to see that his IQ score is indicative of a child with a high learning potential. Be sure and list the verbal score, the perceptual score, and the full-scale IQ score. Go on to say that the perfect score in block design indicates that he is a highly gifted visual/spatial learner, and you plan to incorporate visual/spatial learning techniques into your mini school at home. End the letter by saying that you remain concerned that your son's IQ scores are not indicative of a child, who should be struggling academically, and this remains a grave concern of you and your husband's, but you plan to do anything and everything you can to help your son. P.S. saying that you will be delivering a copy of the IQ test YOU HAD AT THE TIME OF THE MEETING to the front office on Monday afternoon, for the teacher to pick up.
On Monday, make a copy of your son's IQ test results, and take this copy in a sealed envelope to the front office, with the teacher's name on the front of the envelope. Make sure that all that is there are the IQ test scores, not comments by the evaluator that there is no indication of a learning disability.
Wait for a week, probably a week from Monday because of the holidays, for a response from the teacher.
Sounds Great!
Lillian,
You have a way with words that I can understand!!
Like I said before, I am new to all of this and barely know where to begin. My son's teacher was the one who made me decide to get the ball rolling. I know that probably sounds rediculous, but she couldn't handle his behavior before the meds. Now we know it's more than behavior. So, if I take the test results to the school psychologist myself, is that the person who will do further testing? Or will they suggest that I find someone personally? I really don't know how it all works, but I do know that they can sort of push me around because I don't know alot about how to go about doing things and how to respond to their suggestions.
Here is another resource for visual spatial learners. The book by doctor silverman was helpful (and there are some excerpts on this site), but I really liked raising topsy turvey kids.
http://www.visualspatial.org/articles.htm
I will definately check this out because I want to learn all I can. Thank you so much for the info.
The primary grades are generally taught in a sequential manner by people who are generally auditory/sequential learners. They tend not to recognise the abilities of those who are visual spatial learners (because they have no personal experience with this). As the kids get older, they tend to do better because they do well with complecated concepts and more of the teachers are visual spatial themselves. This is especially true in college in the science areas.
It's good to know that things could get better!!
I know you primary concern is to not hold back your child. Take the test results to the school psycologist and discuss the fact that your child has the ability (IQ scores) but there is something causing him to not do well. They need to look at the learning environment for appropriateness and the potential for learning disorder.
Here is another resource for visual spatial learners. The book by doctor silverman was helpful (and there are some excerpts on this site), but I really liked raising topsy turvey kids.
http://www.visualspatial.org/articles.htm
The primary grades are generally taught in a sequential manner by people who are generally auditory/sequential learners. They tend not to recognise the abilities of those who are visual spatial learners (because they have no personal experience with this). As the kids get older, they tend to do better because they do well with complecated concepts and more of the teachers are visual spatial themselves. This is especially true in college in the science areas.
I know you primary concern is to not hold back your child. Take the test results to the school psycologist and discuss the fact that your child has the ability (IQ scores) but there is something causing him to not do well. They need to look at the learning environment for appropriateness and the potential for learning disorder.
Whenever a child is tested, the child should be given IQ and achievement tests, then it should be analyzed as to whether or not the child's achievement tests match the child's IQ scores. When you see a discrepancy between IQ and achievement, you can have a learning disability. This IS NOT the only way a learning disability can be dxed, and there have been recent laws passed down by the federal government saying that a school does not have to use this as a method for dxing learning disabilities. Other factors can be taken into account, as well. There's a major shift going on right now, as to how states and schools define learning disabilities. The traditional way, however, remains that there is a discrepancy between IQ and achievement.
IQ tests, like your son was given, are only one small part of the picture. IQ tests are given to compare with achievement tests. Without the achievement tests, IQ tests don't tell you much. Basically, what they are BELIEVED to tell you is whether or not the child has the mental capacity to acquire information presented at school. Some people believe they show an innate intelligence--an intelligence we naturally have, are born with. I think this is bogus. My son was given four different IQ tests within a four month period of time, and his full-scale IQ scores ranged from 93 to 127. There are all kinds of factors that go into IQ and how well a child does on an IQ test.
There are both verbal and nonverbal IQ tests. Verbal IQ tests require that a child be able to process verbal information to take the test. If a child has difficulties processing verbal information, for one reason or another, such as being dyslexic, speaking English as a second language, etc., then the child may score lower on the test; therefore, there also are nonverbal IQ tests, which are supposed to test mental capacity, without using language. The test your child was given combines verbal and nonverbal. When a child scores considerably higher on the nonverbal section than the verbal, it CAN BE a clue as to whether or not language is interfering in the child's full-scale IQ score. Without achievement tests, though, it's imposssible to know whether or not the child is having difficulties processing language. The achievement tests give specifics because they test the different areas of language.
When my son was first thoroughly tested, he was given two completely different IQ tests--the Woodcock-Johnson Cognitive Batter (verbal) and the Universal Nonverbal Intelligence Test (nonverbal)--to see if there was a discrepancy between the two. There was a considerable discrepancy between the two. The evaluator then gave him an achievement test--the Woodcock-Johnson Test of Academic Achievement--which showed great difficulty with phonological processing, decoding, and spelling. It was then suspected he might have dyslexia. I did not actually have him labeled until a couple years later because of legal reasons, which I won't bother you with 
. What's important to note, though, is that the discrepancy between the verbal and nonverbal IQ tests indicated that there may be a problem with language, and the achievement tests supported that.
So, no, the discrepancy alone between your son's nonverbal IQ and verbal IQ does not mean he has a learning disability. He needs some good achievement tests to see if he has a weakness in a particular area. Remember, though, he's only in kinder. At that age, it's very hard to tell.
When a child scores higher in one area of an IQ test than another, that area can be seen as an area of strength, and the area of strength can be used to help the child. With your son, he shows a TREMENDOUS area of strength in visual/spatial learning. That's what block design indicates. For a child who is struggling, it's extremely important to find the child's strengths and use them to teach the child. My advice is that you research visual/spatial learning and try teaching methods in this type of learning style to reach your son and help him with the difficulties he is having in school. It may not be a "push" your son needs, as much as material presented in a different way.
I know you don't want to make matters worse for your son, but I think this teacher is way out of line. She didn't even look at the tests your son was given. If she had and IF SHE UNDERSTOOD THEM, she would never advise retention.
O.K. I want to clarify something. In the original post of yours, you said that you and your husband believed that your child might have an LD. You had had some testing done, and you wanted to know if there was anything in that testing that was indicative of an LD. I read the test results and said there was, for there was a large separation between the verbal and perceptual reasoning sections of the test, with your son making a perfect score in block design, which is the section of the test that is the best indicator of nonverbal IQ. THIS DOES NOT MEAN THAT YOUR SON HAS AN LD. Further testing needs to be done to see. The testing that you had done is too brief to know, but it does show the POSSIBILITY, which was your question.
Yes, my husband and I do suspect something is wrong. I am not so sure if it's more an LD or if it's a lot to do with his teacher not pulling his attention in. I am thinking that if his attention has to be pulled in - especially after starting meds, then it must be some sort of LD....even if it's just that he has a unique way of learning from the majority of children, I am guessing that would still be considered an LD. Correct me if I am wrong, but the break-downs, such as visual/spacial and all the other learning methods are considered LD's because the majority of people don't learn like that. I MAY BE REALLY CONFUSING ALL OF THIS. I will stop now... Since we already had some testing done and you say we need further testing, what kind of further testing and what kind of professional should do it?
The testing also shows that your son is very bright. A subtest score of 10 is dead average. Please note that your son scored over 10 in every area tested. With the 19 in block design, he scored in the 99th%. It COULD be that you have a gifted or a gifted/LD or a gifted/ADHD or a gifted/LD/ADHD child. And the teacher wants to retain him in kindergarten? In fact, this child may be much better off being in gifted classes. Further testing will tell you whether or not this is so.
I don't think they have gifted classes for Kindergarten at our school, and from the way his teacher has her mind set on retaining him I am not so sure how to go over her head on anything. I don't want to make matters worse for my son than it already is. I do agree that he needs some kind of intervention during school because his teacher doesn't seem to be either qualified enough or willing to go the extra mile for those of her students who need some "push". Oh, I forgot to mention in other posts that the teacher really stressed the importance of preschool. My kids have been to preschool for about 2 yrs total while I worked, but when I had my 3rd child, it became too expensive for me to work. Childcare costed more than what I was making at my job. Anyway, she told me that most of the students who repeat are those who did not go to any kind of preschool right before Kindergarten and she also suggested that I get my other two kids in a preschool program NOW. I know preschool does help, but I am doing what I can and know to do at home because I can't afford preschool - especially for two. With my oldest son, I had no idea that he would be expected to know so much going into kindergarten because that's not how it was when I was in school. So much has changed since then. I feel that now knowing what is expected that I can better help my other two here at home, but still that won't help the socialization part (just some of my thoughts).
O.K. I want to clarify something. In the original post of yours, you said that you and your husband believed that your child might have an LD. You had had some testing done, and you wanted to know if there was anything in that testing that was indicative of an LD. I read the test results and said there was, for there was a large separation between the verbal and perceptual reasoning sections of the test, with your son making a perfect score in block design, which is the section of the test that is the best indicator of nonverbal IQ. THIS DOES NOT MEAN THAT YOUR SON HAS AN LD. Further testing needs to be done to see. The testing that you had done is too brief to know, but it does show the POSSIBILITY, which was your question.
The testing also shows that your son is very bright. A subtest score of 10 is dead average. Please note that your son scored over 10 in every area tested. With the 19 in block design, he scored in the 99th%. It COULD be that you have a gifted or a gifted/LD or a gifted/ADHD or a gifted/LD/ADHD child. And the teacher wants to retain him in kindergarten? In fact, this child may be much better off being in gifted classes. Further testing will tell you whether or not this is so.
lillian39039.424537037Oh, and about ADHD...The questionnaires that were used are subjective, and I take it that your son's teacher filled out some of them? Who filled them out? Going back to the testing, you will see "coding," which is processing speed. Your son ALSO made a perfect score on this, and it is HIGHLY unusual for an ADHD child to score a perfect score in processing speed. Just so you know.Here's something on the site Vickie recommended that I think you may want to read:
With that high of a score on block design, your son is what is called a "visual-spatial learner." The above link gives some ideas on how best to reach him.
lillian39039.154525463Dear Lillian and Vickie,
I went to Hoagies site and a lot of the things I truly don't understand. I will look at the site some more and maybe after reading it more I can make heads or tales of some of it. Thanks so much to both of you, again, you are so great.
Lillian,
Thank you so much for the POSITIVE feedback. It's hard for a parent to hear "LD" but spoken in certain positive ways as you have really helps parents like me to deal so much better. You seem to be so sincere and THANK YOU SO MUCH!!!
I am still not sure that I do understand all of the scoring stuff but we are new to all of this and with people like you on the forum I believe we can get through the tough stuff. Right now, money is a big issue for us with getting all the testing done ourselves and that's why I was trying to ask the teacher about getting it done through the school. I know I appear to be really sensitive in my posts, but I will be honest about it--I am and always have been and sometimes I do have to sit back a ponder on things in order to feel better and come to accept things. It's great to have support here!
I know that having the potential of a learning disorder thrown out there was difficult to deal with. I want to point out something I think you may be missing in what lillian and I have said. The 19 subtest score is in the gifted range (and since 19 is the top score this test can give, it is likely that your son is even more gifted then the numbers imply). People do not generally have scores that are high and normal like your son. The thought is, that this indicates a gifted person because the high score is more indicative of the actual IQ. If a learning disorder is identified,there are ways for a person to compensate for them and excell, especailly a child with a high IQ. Please go to hoagies for information on all of this. It would be very helpful. I know it is a lot to take in.
http://www.hoagiesgifted.org/parents.htm
Anytime you see a spread between verbal and performance scores that's as great as your son's are, it can be indicative of a language based LD. To translate into clearer terms, the 19 in block design, one of the strongest indicators of nonverbal IQ, translates to 145, and the vocabulary, one of the strongest indicators of verbal IQ, translates to 110. It's also important to note that 19 is as high of a score as the test will give, which means his nonverbal IQ could be even higher than 145.
And the teacher is discussing retaining him??? OHHHHHHHH, NOOOOOOOO!!! I would take your son to a neuropsychologist for a complete evaluation, and I would not even allow the idea of retention to cross anyone's mind, until that evaluation was done.
Sorry, let me correct myself. There's not a chance in **** that I would allow this child to be retained. So his IQ is 109 but he has a spread of 23 points between verbal and performance as well as a spread of 8 points (11 to 19) in the sections. Scores of 19 may also be the ceiling for the test administered. Some of the tests are better at looking at average IQ but they are not accurate for people with high IQ because they hit the ceiling.
Ask the therapist if there is any meaning to the spread. The educational psychologist that tested my kids said that this kind of spread indicates a posible learning disorder. In my daughter's case, she scored in the average range for the timed portions because she would not stay on task and just ran out the time. She is also dyslexic and gifted (also called twice exceptional). Scoring high in the performance and visual area indicates a visual spatial and tactile learning preferences. I would suggest you browse hoagiesgifted.org for a world of information.
Glad you mentioned that Vickie because I hadn't noticed. Okay here's how it's listed on the paper....
Verbal IQ (98)
Performance IQ (121)
Full Scale IQ (109)
LOL, that makes more sense now...
