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I like the idea of the marble jar and monetary rewards/sanction. I think it
would work great for my younger child who does not have ADHD and for
my 9 year old who has ADHD once his meds kick in. However, in the
morning, prior to meds, he is so out of control and consequences mean
absolutely nothing to him. It's so hard getting him out the door to
school. I give him time outs to calm down but he just thrashes about,
tears things up, yells and continuously opens the door of his time out
room. I try sooooooo hard to remain calm and in control but I find often I
simply loose it with him and then I put my hands on him. This morning
was one of those mornings. I hate it. I'll feel guilty all the rest of the day
especially when he comes home from school a completely different
person because the meds are in his system. Does anybody know of any
discipline techniques for children who don't care about any consequences
and are physically out of control? I feel like I'm in crisis.

My son is very impulsive and ridiculously silly until the meds kick in, which really really makes the morning tough. My daughter, who is two years younger even gets it, to ignore her brother because is pills haven't kicked in. She will even say that!

My response to your post is in regards to making the morning easier. We give our son his pills an hour before he gets up, if we can. He has to leave for school around 8:10, so he takes them around 7:00. When he gets out of bed, around 7:45, he is not that far off from the meds. taking affect. He still eats and drinks usually. If he sleeps another hour after taking the pills, they usually have taken affect, so no food or drink, but same great kid as after school up until 7:00.

regards!

How much time does your son have before school?  If things are always a rush, try getting him up a bit earlier.  You may also want to think about giving him coffee or mountain dew when he gets up and the caffiene in might give him the stimulant kick he needs to hold it together in the morning.  What about stuff like a bath or shower in the morning?  My ds is a totally different person after he has his morning shower.  It wakes him up, something I noticed even before he started drinking coffee.  HTH I hold off giving my son his pill until literally he is out the door to get on his
bike and leave for school. By the time school starts his pill has kicked in. I
feel like I want it to last as long as possible during the day. However, I feel
just miserable sending him off to school after we've had such a horrible
morning. I always tell him that no matter how tough the morning I still do
love him very much and the whole day doesn't have to go like that. Even if
his morning is rough at home, he can have a good day at school. I worry
about how it will be when he's even bigger and stronger. He gets so
physically out of control now I literally have to grab him and remove him
from the room. I don't know how that will happen once he's stronger than
me.

Taking things away does not work with these kids (been there, done that, went into crisis like you describe). It is very important with the positive reinforcement behavior plans that you are consistant in applying it (the biggest benefit for me was that the marble plan made me a more consistant parent).

For mornings, I listed the behaviors I wanted: Get up with 1 request-1 marble, get dressed by self-imarble, brush teeth-1 marble, etc. After my daughter (then 9) got the hang of getting rewards for behaviors and trading the marbles in for extra video time, cash, etc., she worked harder to get marbles. I had to make sure in the beginning she got the rewards, so that she saw the benefit...this motivated her to want to get the rewards. Later I added consequences for bad behavior (but always with the balance towards the positive behavior). I no longer give marbles for morning (she is 10), instead, I have changed it to "if  you get your homework done before I get home from work, you can stay up an extra half hour (but only if you get up and get ready for school without my help)".

If your son is really bad in the AM (to the point that positive reinforcement does not help), you might ask the doctor for a low dose, short acting form of the med. Give this to your son 1/2 hour before the usual wake up time and let him go back to sleep (reward a marble for taking his med without a problem). When you wake him up things should go much better. After a while with the meds, he may get the hang of it himself and be able to do it without the extra med in the AM.

Is there any way that you can give the med earlier?  Say while he is still in bed?  Take him the pill, have him take it and let him stay in bed until you would normally get him up.  That way thre would be time for it to kick in and maybe he would be easier to deal with.

I cannot do this with Chase because his med will not last the school day, and I give it as late as possible (8:00) as we are waiting on the bus. 

Mornings are not fun, but he is the only one that I have to get ready, so I keep him on task with constant reminders...."OK it is time to eat, now."  "Put your lunch in your bookbag, now" "It is time to brush your teeth."  "OK, take your pill, and put on your coat." 

I also aim to have him ready and waiting for the bus at 8:00, even though the bus does not come before 8:10, leaving a little leeway for his lagging.

I'm going to try the jar of marbles system. I just can't imagine it will work
with my son because, like I mentioned, he cares about nothing when he's in
one of his modes. I really don't want to give him his meds prior to waking
because I'd rather his good day extend a little longer than run the risk of the
pill wearing off. Also, if I went in early to give him is pill, he wouldn't fall
back asleep (I know him so well). And reducing his sleep negatively effects
his ADHD. I'm heartbroken to think my young child needs a pill to function
like a normal kid. I'm also heartbroken that I sternly put my hands on my
beloved little boy. This website has been a very good resource for me. I
don't get much support from the pediatrician but parents of ADHD children
offer so much help. Thank you all!!

That is because we have all been there, done that, and in some cases, the ped hasn't!

Treating an ADHD child (as a dr) is different than living with the day to day grind of dealing with the behaviors.

Sometimes the voice of experience can be just the ticket!

 

What we do in our house is my girl will lose privilages for mis-behavior and has the choice to earn them back by showing good behavior and I decide when the punishment ends or she can choose to do a chore to earn them back of my picking.  This way she chooses when she will do it and how long it will take for her punishment.  Mornings are hard for us it is the lack of motivation where she will not get out of bed and will not get dressed and I end up dressing her and on occasion she is grumpy and nothing you do is good enough.  I too try to make things positive before we part I hug her and tell her I love her and it is the behavior I do not like.

Our mornings can be hell, as well.  We've actually gotten to the point where we have more good than bad now.  I don't give him his meds until shortly before the bus comes so that it lasts the day, so our morning routine suffers a bit, but here are some things we've found helpful.

Get up early enough so that you can get ready before your son needs to be getting ready.  I am showered, dressed, lunches packed, ready for my first daycare kid to walk in the door before I tell him to turn off the video games and get dressed.  This took off so much pressure, as I had the time to devote to keeping him on task.

Reward everything- by this I mean, if he puts his socks on when you ask, even if you have to start counting (or whatever warning method you use), then he gets something.  A sticker, temporary tatoo, bubble gum, or our personal favorite- a   little plastic army guy, the kind that come 100 in a pack at the dollar store.  So for evey single thing, at first reward him.  Then you can slowly cut back as he starts to get in the habit of doing parts of the routine on his own.  The marble system is great- we use it the rest of the day, but in the am we needed more.

Another thing that's been helpful is to post the routine, whatever it is, with pictures as well as words.  We have a poster in the kitchen that lists all the things that have to be done before school in pictures.  We always do it in the same order to be consistent.  I'll often tell my son to go check the chart when he starts to goof off, or do something else.  It serves two purposes in that it gets him to stop doing whatever it was that I didn't want him to do, and gets him headed in the right direction for the next task.

It's all really labor intensive, but isn't every aspect of raising these kids?  It also sucks if you're not a morning person yourself- that's where much of the conflict in our house comes from.  Although he's actually been responsive to my "you can't do that/act that way until after I've had my coffee" line.  I try not to over use it.  

Doesn't it just feel better to know that there are others in the same boat?  And that it isn't you, or even the child....it is the ADHD!!!Brand new to this,  it's very interesting to hear others talking about what could be my household on any given morning!  My 7yr old is adhd (mostly add) taking adderallxr.   He and I both have been through a lot of change in the last couple of years.  He was diagnosed last year in Oct and we started the medication game.  Luckily adderallxr has worked wonders and the only playing around we did was with his dosage.   I used to chalk up our horrible mornings to our stressful home environment but after we left that and then moved in with my new partner and her two children it became painfully obvious that my son has some real behavior problems and that the mornings were always the worst!  I now have three children in my household a 12 yr old girl and a 6yr old boy (almost exactly one year younger than my son).  It's hard to overlook the behaviors when the 6 yr old is getting up, dressed and is at the breakfast table before E is even stirring and then the whole crying and whinning and angry outbursts begin and T is looking at E as if he's sprouted another head!  (at least in the beginning, T now knows that's just how E is before his medicine kicks in)  It's interesting that most of us find the tools we need (even if we can't always use them! I've lost it with my son too and it does always make me feel guilty)  I am much relieved to hear that there are others out there who go through these things, because sometimes I really think he's never going to be able to take care of himself and that scares me to death!  It's also very hard on a new relationshilp!  Even though my new partner is a mental health professional and understands the issues, I find we argue more over E's behavior and how to handle it than any other topic.  Well this has been an interesting lunch break for sure.

NoTellin wrote:

"The only reward suggestion that I turned down was a trip to Hawaii."

I like his thinking. He is ambitious, that's for sure.

I guess I did what vickie did. I had problems in the morning and it was making me miserable. Consequences just don't work with my son, unless lighthanded and infrequent. I did marbles. One for brushing teeth, 5 for getting out of bed in 10 min without me asking, etc. I wrote a list, and he checked it off. He wrote the list of rewards, and to resolve those horrid morning behaviors, the rewards were very generous. The only reward suggestion that I turned down was a trip to Hawaii. I also pretty much stopped waking him up. I put him to bed earlier and gave him melatonin and really focused on him getting 10 hrs of sleep. His bad morning habits were broken in 2 months. We don't use marbles for that anymore.

[QUOTE=chasesmom79]Is there any way that you can give the med earlier?  Say while he is still in bed?  Take him the pill, have him take it and let him stay in bed until you would normally get him up.  That way thre would be time for it to kick in and maybe he would be easier to deal with.

[/quote]

 

This is what I do. I give him the meds with a sip of juice while he's still in bed and don't even attempt to get him up for about half an hour.  But then, he's on Straterra, so I don't have the added concern of medication wearing off before his day ends.

 

*sigh* 

 

I've heard of people having success with waking the child up about an hour or so earlier than when you want him functional, give the meds, then let him go back to sleep until the normal time.  Since the meds might then wear off earlier in the day, this might require a "booster" dose of a normal-acting med around lunch or early afternoon. I hope you can find something that works for you, because I know that how things go at home in the morning sets the tone for the whole day. Good luck!

I know this sounds so cliche but try to have as much ready the night before or before he wakes up.  Our mornings are pretty much the same as waht you described, but I have to say they are getting better since we changed meds.

Before my ds goes to bed I ask him what does he want to wear tomorrow, what does he want for breakfast.  Many times if those things are already planned then it does not seem so overwhelming to make all the choices when trying to wake up.

Another thought... how do you wake him up in the morning?  With my ds I have to transition him- that is how I have to wake myself up too.  I cannot jump out of bed as soon as the alarm goes off.  To wake my ds up I go in several times as I myself am getting ready.  I go in gently rub his back or his hair and tell him good morning, it will be time to get up soon.   Sometimes it works to have something exciting going on for that day, even it is very simple like his favorite breakfast or lunch. 

And... because my ds has sensory issues, all of the lights have to be off in the house except for a dim hallway light when he gets out of bed, and usually no tv on either.  the noise and lights just set him off when he first wakes up.

All this to say, I ended up having to undress and dress him today

 

[QUOTE=kemi]Another thought... how do you wake him up in the morning?  With my ds I have to transition him- that is how I have to wake myself up too.  I cannot jump out of bed as soon as the alarm goes off.  To wake my ds up I go in several times as I myself am getting ready.  I go in gently rub his back or his hair and tell him good morning, it will be time to get up soon.   Sometimes it works to have something exciting going on for that day, even it is very simple like his favorite breakfast or lunch.  [/QUOTE]

 

Amen!  Amen!

We have a very easy-going morning ritual.  Otherwise, it's going to be a bad day for us all.  I'm glad to hear I'm not alone in thinking that the way you awaken a child (depending on the child, of course) can make a huge difference.

I call it, "waking him gently." And we always do things exactly the same way, so that he knows what to expect and when.  And the lights stay off or very low through most of the process.

Wow! It sure is nice to be here with people who have concerns a lot like mine/ours.   Thanks for sharing, kemi.

My son sounds just like yours... last year, in kindergarten, he was
completely feral in the mornings. I took video then, so now I can look
back and see that it has gotten better. He couldn't talk, couldn't follow
any commands, just growled, hit, scratched, and bit. The thing that
helped me the most was a book called "The Explosive Child". It helped me
learn to identify the point where consequences and punishments needed
to end, because he was not in control and couldn't be help responsible
for what he did beyond that point. I slowly worked on helping him cope
with things that he couldn't handle, and VERY VERY slowly it got better. I
still have him sleep in clean school clothes; one battle eliminated. Our
psychologist taught me some holds to use to move him from room to
room so I wouldn't get hurt or have to do something I would regret. She
never believed how bad it was until she saw the videos; he was a different
kid. We would pull up at school after a silent angry ride in the car, and
out would step a perfectly behaved young man (his meds always kick in
on the way) and a scowling woman with her hair half-undone and a
smudged eyebrow and a serious chip on her shoulder. I found it very hard
to get rid of the anger and I was fairly certain that my face was going to
freeze that way, like my mom always said. But I read that book about
once a month; it's mantra is "kids do well if they can." And finally, mine
has started to be able to. And so will your son... hang in there.

My daughter has ADD and my son has ADHD. Mornings were not fun here for quite some time. I wont let the turn the tv on now until they are both ready for school. Sometimes they win and get ready in time for 10 minutes of tv, and sometimes they get none.

They also know that they get Saturday morninings to take their time (too bad they wont sleep in)

I also give them breaks from their meds on school breaks. My daughter gets breaks on weekends too. My son however has a hard time getting back on track after a "med break", so he still does weekends. Like today, they are on their first week back to school after winter break, I almost wanted to keep my son home because He seemed to have lost his mind . I hope he dosnt come home with another note from his teacher.