ADHD/Bipolar 5 year old son | ADHD Information

Sorry this is fragmented...

It can take a while to get the right treatment for an individual's needs. As ebson said (and as it looks like is being done with the Depakote) the bipolar has to get under control before adding stimulants. Simulants can cause a bipolar person to go into mania: but stimulants for a bipolar person who is doing well on mood stabilizers can be very effective.

It also sounds like the adderall made him tired then the rebound hit (more hyper). Both of these effects can go away as the body adjusts to the med. Were there any positive effects of from the adderall?

Here is an overview of bipolar:

http://www.nimh.nih.gov/publicat/bipolar.cfm

With positive reinforcement plans, it is important to be consistant to keep them working. Look at ograms mable system (top thread) for another version that you might consider. You can include things like eating certain things in a behavior plan.

Anxiety can come out as anger or fear in kids. My daughter gets angry. She also regresses (does not want to grow up). Proper treatment has removed the anxiety.

Bipolar used to be called manic- depressive. It's characterized by cycles of deep depression, followed by periods of mania (totally hyper, crazy impulsive, talking nonstop, etc). In adults the cycles usually last weeks or months, but young children tend to cycle through much faster, sometimes just over the course of a day.

Unfortunately neither Bipolar and ADHD will go away. You may want a second opinion about the stimulants in a bipolar child- it can be very dangerous, sending them into an even more intense mania.

Thanks for the reply -- I've just been really frustrated at work and on break and lunch i try to do research.

My niece takes Zoloft (i just found out). She is 11 and wouldn't be going to school if they had not found she has extreme anxiety. From what I can recall about me growing up it was social and general anxiety which my mom never got me help -- she probably just thought it was a kid thing. My brother has taken Paxil for years - I didn't know that til just recently. My husband took lithium for years growing up and has OCD about some things and anxiety. Xanax and paxil help him. We are outdoors folks. Our son loves to hike, and camp and enjoy nature and animals, so that is good for the mind and body.

Oh, I forgot. He is also taking 1 miligram of Risperdal at night, .025 at noon. So it is Depakote 125 2x a day and 250 mg at bed, 1 miligram Risperdal at night, 1-1/2 tsp. Clonidine at bed, and the Adderall (forgot what miligram) it is pretty low i think and he takes that in am. Sometimes he doesn't want his medicine. He says it makes him tired. His step sister was diagnosed with Bipolar (she is very moody) and ADHD. She been on everything. She has also been put in hospitals for a couple weeks at a time because she said she was going to hurt herself. That was two years ago, but I remember it well. She is 14. Still has an I.E.P at school, was doing great but now getting several D's. Sorry, my mind just went blank......... I will return. We are keeping a log of the Aderall since he just started it yesterday. It might not help we aren't sure. He hurt his teacher last friday and another child in gym two days ago. So we had to leave work and take him to the doctors again. Everyone that meets him thinks is the sweetest kid. And he is. He loves everyone and everyone is his friend, but they don't live with him. ha.

No, neither Bi polar disorder nor ADHD go away, they are not curable

Bipolar disorder, also called manic-depressive illness, is a brain disease that leads to episodes of mania (severely elevated mood) and episodes of depression. It affects more than three percent of the adult population. Like other serious illnesses, bipolar disorder also impacts the family members, partners and friends of those diagnosed. Symptoms of the illness can place unusual stresses on relationships. Understanding and support from loved ones can be critical to the management of bipolar disorder. While there is no known cure for bipolar disorder, some medications have been approved for the treatment of the different phases of bipolar illness. SEROQUEL is indicated for the treatment of acute manic bipolar episodes. Bipolar disorder is an illness that comes and goes, but it is a lifelong disease. Patients and their families must realize the importance of continuing to take any prescribed medications — even when the disease is causing no troublesome symptoms. Without effective treatment, bipolar disorder can have a tragic ending; nearly eleven percent of people with bipolar disorder take their own lives.( I copied and pasted, too much to type)

http://www.seroquel.com/cons_bip/not/index.asp?flash=1

You can also learn more about BP from bpkids.org

Hi, we have a year old son that has been diagnosed with ADHD and Bipolar and developmentally delayed. When our son started walking at 2 years he had a very wide stride and 1st Steps Program recommended braces to correct, which he got. He fell a lot, doctors said he had low muscle tone. He had OT, PT and Speech. Then they said he was Dyspraxic. We entered him into a school with an I.E.P plan that included therapies at school and followed progress closely. Then we noticed hyperactivity, problems sleeping, hitting, kicking and minor seizures with the shaking and throwing fits. We continue with an I.E.P for him. Starting back in Nov. we noticed behavors getting worse and he was hard to handle and could makes friends for long and loud noises bothered him. He was diagnosed by a couple doctors with same -- ADHD, Bipolar. It has been a rough road for the little guy and us as parents. They started with Ritilan -- just made his behavior worse. He currently takes Clonodine for sleep. Works great. Adderall is new so we don't know if it will work for focusing and calming down yet. Yesterday was the first day he took it and his teacher called and said he is not playing on the playground with the other children. He is just sitting watching because he is too tired. Of course that made us very sad for him. He also takes Depakote for mood and seisures, but I read that is dangerous to the liver. They check his blood periodically for the level. It was too high, so the psychiatrist cut back some. We feel like our son is a ginnea pig experimenting what will calm him. He has had troubles at school hitting and kicking teachers and children and we are afraid some child is going to get hurt or he will really bad. We feel like we are the only parents that are going through this. My husband and I started taking our own antidepressents to cope. There is a CD called 1-2-3 Magic by Dr. Phelan. It is great and it works but the behavior always reappears. Ryan also has sensory issues, routine issues, tags on shirts have to come off, if he can't have something he wants now it has gone from just crying to physically hitting us and saying bad things to us. VERY FRUSTRATING. His speech is not clear, certain letters he has to be cued and cued to get it. Other kids make fun of him.

Anybody out there have any suggestions for us. Thanks.

Any child( opr adult) with Bi Polar should NOT be given stimulant meds until the bi polar has been stabilized. I would not give any Ritalin, adderall, etc until he is stable, and on a good treatment plan for the bi polar.

We will call the psychiatrist back and ask why the adderall. He just started it yesterday. I was told if it doesn't work for him it will make him more hyper? He was tired yesterday afternoon, by late afternoon he turned extremely hyper. We don't really know what Bipolar is. Do you? I need to research like I have on everything else. I don't like him taking medicine. Does Bipolar and ADHD go away? We have bad anxiety and depression on both sides of the family and heart disease. Oh there is another thing., Poor kid's cholesterol is 189 and the doctor said the Depakote will make it go up. I am afraid he is going to have a stroke or something. His dad has atrial fib, his dad died suddenly from a heart attack and never smoked or drank in his life. All the males died young and had anxiety problems. So I am afraid for the kid. The pediatritian said they wanted to get his mental state toned down then worry about cholesterol. He won't eat right. I buy all the good fruits and vegtables, etc and just not much luck except for spinage and few green beans. He is lactose intolerant so he has bad constipation problems too.

He was almost totally potty trained. Here in the last month he has decided to go in his pants #1 and 2. We got him pullups and he got mad, but he is going backwards for some reason and doctor said it is not the medicine. We are even going to a family therapy session 1x a week. They aren't telling us anything we don't know. We are trying, but something is missing and we just can't find it yet.

Hello,

I can understand what you are going through I have one son 8 with ADHD/ODD and a 5 year old daughter with bipolar. We were haveing the same problems you are with your son. We tried the Adderall with both of our children with our son it worked good at first but just wasn't the right med for him he would get more aggresive when taking it and then he started getting very quiet and backing away from us like he was in his own little world and then he said he didn't want to live anymore that scare us so bad we put him in the hospital, so we switched to concerta and he is doing really great on it he also takes Seroquel for his ODD which seems to be doing really great he is happy and doing really great in school, we have had our times when we have had to move the dose up because we noticed his grade dropping but it did take us over a year to get the right dose and the right meds for him.

Now our daughter with bipolar, they wanted to rule out everything first so they tried her on Adderall first to make sure it wasn't ADHD and when she took it she went into real bad Mania it scared everyone around her at home and at school we called the doctor and they took her off of it ASAP, they then put her on Depakote in the morning and the evening both and it took us up to a year to get her regulated on the right dose for her which is 500mg in the morning and 500mg in the evening and she is doing really good on it she seems like a completely different child but it has taken us a year to get there with both children. We keep in close contact with the teachers and doctors because things can change often and the sooner we catch it the better things are. But we have had a very ruff road getting there, but it just took time to get there. We were very scared to put either one on meds but we are glad we did now. I do know there are some people that choose not to and work with it in other ways, in my opinion you need to do what works best for the child and your situation. Every child is different and every med will effect the children in different way. But from someone who has been there like Vickie said Simulants can cause a bipolar person to go manic.

And they are right bipolar and ADHD will not go away it is always there. I also am going to therpy because learning all this and working with both children to get threw the process plus other things has become so stressful I have learned that I need to be able to help my children because they can't help what they are going through. I went out and bought the book the bipolar child which has given me lots of information and I do alot of reading on the internet and this website has helped me out alot also. And it also helps to know you are not alone going through this there are alot of people out there that feel alone but I have learn that there is a very good support forums like this one that can really help out alot. Hang in there, it does take alot of time but once you get there it is all worth it.

Thanks for all the infor. I really, really appreciate it. Today I am not doing well with this. My son has had only two Adderall 15mg and by afternoon he is sooooooo hyper and aggrivated with everything and won't stop talking.

Now we are even wondering if something happened oxygen wise with ryan when born because i lost fluid for a week and doctor said "your fine" (she was a quack), and I was flown to a hospital far away because of it and then I was given magnesium to streathen ryans lungs and it filled mine with fluild and couldn't breath. Think my oxygen level was 33 for a longgggggggg time until they figured it out. I wonder if all that didn't do something to his little brain. We are getting him to a neurologist next week. He feels so unstable, like at the zoo, kids were climbing all over this fake huge turtle and he got stuck up there and his sister saved him, while the others are running and climbing. Ryan just never has been able.

Hi my son was also on depakot and had to be taken off. Also, he was worse on it. My son kicks, hit, spit and also say mean words. He is currently taking Seroquel and tenex. Tenex seem to have some effect do for, it's been two weeks. I'm praying this is the one. He has been on other meds prior. So much to even mention. My son is also five and has adhd/biolar. Je is really aggressive. I didn't know what I was going to do. Frustrated and depression is what I've been facing.

I understand how you feel.

They "tinker" with meds until something works is the sad thing. Our son's med is still not right. He doesn't have much school left, but he has beat up (kicked and kicked and hit and yelled) at the school bus driver's aide. He doesn't like him for some reason. So they get mad at us because of his behavior. There is a video camera on the bus. So we can request the episodes they are talking about. His social skills are not age appropriate for some reason. He is 5 and the skills are around 3. He is developmentally delayed and has gotten a lot of help thru his I.E.P

We use 1-2-3 timeout. Works better for Dad than it does me for some reason. My son likes to just "push" my "last"button -- fumes come out my ears. Now I try my best to not let him do that with his "constant talking" and "I wants". I have to take xanax.

He soon will be taking something else new so we will see what happens.

I cut and pasted this from risperdal.com:

The most common side effects that may occur with RISPERDAL in the treatment of bipolar mania either alone or in combination with a mood stabilizer (Depakote or lithium) are: sleepiness, muscle stiffness, restlessness, tremor, indigestion, nausea, abnormal vision, muscle aches, dizziness, runny nose, diarrhea, increased saliva, stomach pain, and urinary incontinence.

I really don't know why a psychiatrist wouldn't know the most common side effects of a med she's prescibing, but if I were you I would be furious. I can't imagine what you must be going through.

Kiddo gets hungry from the Risperdal. He stays tired and just non-stop and won't stop to think when I tell him to "stop" doing something - like with brand new shoes kicking in the water puddle. I did the 1-2-3 then it is timeout. He had the turn on of NOT listening last night. He has the shakes some, but he had that before any of this medicine. As soon as he has the CLONIDINE he chills out -- amazing. But can't do that during the day. He'll sleep and not learn.

We have a review of his I.E.P and we are going to get allllllllll the extra therapy this child needs. My sister-in-law is a counselor at a school in Maryland and she has informed us of everything to ask and tell them so he will have all the assistance for Kindergarden when he starts next august. And of course the school is merging with another because it was a small school and they got a lot of one on one. They always have to change what works. And is all about saving money too. Oh well, nothing we can do.

Oh, Lithium, My husband took that when he was a teenager for yearssssss and he said it was great for mood but he has to put in a hospital setting and be monitored for bit with that stuff. I called the psychiatrist he is to see april 20 (long wait) and got put on the list with others if there are any cancellations.

Poor kid does get restless sleeping. I find him sleeping on the floor in middle of night and have to put him back to bed.

We went and watched dad climb at a popular climbing wall and ryan thought that was too cool. Happy mood goes to hyper and not listening to sad to i love you to hurting his elbow because he wouldn't listen to me to crying to sad to happy.................. ugggggggggg i need a xanax. ANYBODY ELSE GO THRU THISSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS

hiker1961 - I'm so sorry you're so stressed. Sending you a hug! I also have an 8yo9 DS with diagnosed ADHD and "strongly-suspected bi-polar" by his psych. He is also ODD and has sensory issues, and was speech delayed due to ear fluid and went through birth-3. Still has a few minor speech issues, but that's at the bottom of our problem list right now. Up until two months ago, when had switched from Risperdal to Zyprexa and then nothing, we were in he** here.

He came off the Risperdal because, besides weight gain, I suspected it was the reason he had begun wetting his bed and having a few poopy pants. The Dr. said she had only seen this side effect in 2 other kids through the years, but it stopped the day we took him of the Risperdal. Perhaps this is the reason your son has some potty problems?? Worth investigating.

He gained 20lbs in 2-1/2 months on Risperdal and then Zyprexa, so we weaned him off that (the doctor wanted him "clean" to start the next med.).

He started Abilify (2.5 mg - I was told to cut the 5 mg in half) once a day a little over a month ago, and boy have our lives changed for the better! Yes - treating the bi-polar symptoms definintely treat the ADHD symptoms. Abilify is all he is taking (we've never had him on more than one med at the same time, because our psych does not believe in using one med to treat side-effects of another - nor do we.) This is also the only med we haven't had to increase the dose after the first few weeks. No more calls from school, positive reports, and he's HAPPIER! He is himself! Not the moody, angry, fly off the handle kid he was before. Of the 5 meds he has tried (yes the stimulants made him nuts), this is by far the best one. We have monitored his weight, and he hasn't gained any more weight (lost 2 lbs), since this can also happen on Abilify.

I hope this helps you in some way. It's a little daunting how much life change a medication can make, but I've come to accept we need to do what's best for him. I really hope you find the right med, and that you can find some peace of mind for yourself!

I SPENT THE WEEKEND NOT THINKING ABOUT ALL THIS AND TRIED TO RELAX A LITTLE BEFORE I GO INSANE WITH US TRYING TO CONSTANTLY FIGURE THIS OUT AND WHY IS HE SOOOOOOOO TIRED AFTER HE TAKES HIS RESPERDAL 0.23, DEPAKOTE 125MG AM AND 1/2 TSP OF CLONIDINE. NO MORE ADDERALL. CALLED AND TOLD PSHYCHIATRIST AND NURSE. WE MEET WEDNESDAY FOR THE LAST TIME AND THEN WE ARE GOING TO SEE ANOTHER PSYCHIATRIST APRIL 20 AND GOING TO A NEUROLOGIST MAY SOMETHING. THIS IS ALL SO VERY TIRING. MY NECK FEELS LIKE ONE BIG KNOT TODAY. WE TOOK OUR SON HIKING AND ATE OUT. HE DID PRETTY GOOD. AT THE TABLE HE WAS GOOD AND FELL ASLEEP ON MY LAP AFTER I GAVE HIM HIS AFTERNOON DOSE. I FEEL SORRY FOR HIM. WE DON'T WANT HIM OUT OF IT. HE GOES FROM MOOD TO MOOD THOUGH. EXAMPLE: HE LOVED HIS NEW SHOES HE GOT THE OTHER DAY. THIS MORNING HE WAS THROWING THEM IN THE TRASH AND COMPLAINING AND FUSSING AT DAD WHICH GOT HIM TIMED OUT. LATER HE WILL WANT HIS SHOES BACK. THAT CAN GET SO CONSISTANT AND FRUSTRATING. WE ARE TRYING TO GET EVERYTHING TOGETHER SO WE CAN GET AN ACCURATE I.E.P. SETUP IN MAY FOR HIM ENTERING KINDERGARDEN. HAPPY BUT SCARED. THE CHILD HAS GONE BACKWARDS WITH CARING FOR HIMSELF GOING TO THE BATHROOM. HE DEFINITELY WON'T WIPE HIMSELF BUT HE WAS SO PROUD TO GO POOP ON THE POTTY OR PEE. LATELY HE GOT LAZY AND HAS BEEN DOING IT IN HIS PANTS. SO HE IS WEARING PULLUPS AND IS MADE ABOUT IT, BUT HE DID GO IN THE POTTY YESTERDAY BY HIMSELF. HE LEARNED TO SLOWLY GO DOWN STEPS BUT ONE FOOT AT A TIME, WE THOUGHT HE MASTERED BOTH FEET GOING DOWN LIKE WE DO, BUT NOW IS DOING VERY SLOWLY ONE FOOT AT A TIME. I DON'T KNOW IF THIS IS ABOUT "GETTING ATTENTION" OR WHAT. ONE DOCTOR SAW A TOUCH A P.D.D., THE OTHER DOESN'T, OTHER SAYS BIPOLAR AND MAYBE ADHD. ADHD SYMPTOMS COULD BE ANOTHER UNDERLYING PROBLEM. HE HAD LACK OF OXYGEN AT BIRTH SO WE WONDER IF THE SLOW SPEECH AND CAN'T FORM A LOT LETTERS IS THAT OR APXAXIA OR DYSPRIA. EVERYONE THAT MET HIM YESTERDAY JUST THOUGHT HE WAS AWESOME. HE IS. JUST WISH NO MEDS WE NEEDED OR HE HAD THE RIGHT STUFF. THEY ARE TINKERING WITH IT WHICH IS STRESSING US OUT.

I GOT THE DIAGNOSIS ON PAPER FOR MY SON'S I.E.P. SO THAT CAN BE ADDED AND WE CAN DISCUSS SAFETY ISSUES AND THE LEARNING HE DOESN'T GET WHEN HE IS DISTRACTING AND THEY TAKE HIM FROM CLASS OR THROWS A FIT AND ISN'T CONCENTRATING. ANYONE HEARD OF ADHD MIXED TYPE?????

I HAD DONE TONS OF READING ON ADHD, BUT WHAT IS MIXED TYPE? IS IT BECAUSE THERE IS BIPOLAR TOO. HOW DO THEY SEE BIPOLAR WHEN MONITORING A CHILD FOUR HOURS A DAY FOR TWO WEEKS???? JUST CURIOUS.

THE PSYC SAYS JUST KEEP HIM ON RISPERDAL, DEPAKOTE AND CLONIDINE FOR THE EVENING UNTIL I SEE YOU AND YOUR HUSBAND FRIDAY. WE JUST SAW THE PSYCHIATRIST. WHY COULDN'T SHE SAY 'SOMETHING'!!!! SHE DIDN'T EVEN REMEMBER ME TELLING HER FRIDAY THAT I WAS NOT GIVING RYAN ANYMORE ADDERALL. IT MADE HIM WORSEEEEEEEE. BEHAVIOR WAS IMPULSIVE, MOODY, STOMPIN FEET, HITTING, COULDN'T FOCUS. HE IS SUPPOSE TO GET SOMETHING TO HELP THE IMPULSIVE, HYPER, NONFOCUS.

Are you sure that they didn't mean 'combined type'? Combined type of ADHD would mean that the person has issues and symptoms of both the inattentive ADHD and the hyperactive ADHD.

I suppose that the adderall could have made him worse because of bipolar, but it could also be just because adderall is not the med for him....one of the other stimulants could work wonderfully, and unfortunately the only way to find out is to give each one in turn an honest trial.....the wonderful med roller coaster.

If he does have bipolar, he will need to get a mood stabalizer in place and working well before the ADHD can be addressed medically from what I have read.

chasesmom7939161.5946412037

It says on the report mixed type. So i need to research. His meds aren't right.

maybe it is just another term for the same thing.....or maybe it means with comorbid conditions.....let us know what you find out.

Thanks. I definitely will ask some questions. I complained to them that one of the medicines was making him pee and poop when he shouldn't be. He was like almost potty trained. She says it is not the medicines. He didn't do that before. the meds.

The risperdal. He takes .1 mg at night. During day he takes 1 0.25mg in am and later in afternoon takes another 0.25mg along with his Depakote 125mg. He still needs something, but the waiting drives me crazy. Can't stand the psychiatrist he was seeing at st johns mercy hospital program. So we have to wait until april 20thhhhhhhhhhh for our son to see someone new. Guess i'll just have to get a grip. We are going camping this weekend and we all love that. So that will help and we are going camping the holiday in may for a few days which will be wonderful. Our son just loves to camp and hike and explore nature. That helps him.

He went to a new daycare for the spring break. He was so excited this am to get there he got up at 5:30am when I was getting ready for work -- says "mom, i am ready to go"! Haaa

kemi also told me that once her son's risperdal dose was upped, he had some wetting accidents (he is 7 and never had accidents). So apparently this is a side effect of that med.

My son does both and I confronted the psychiatrist and she said no that doesn't happen. Oh yes it does. I have called to talk to the assistant of the psychiatrist but she is taking a long time to get back with me. The psychiatrist won't talk to me because she doesn't get paid to talk to me on the phone -- only if we come in. Thats real caring i'd say. I have to take xanax to chill out. Since we started all this testing and watching and going thru the fits and stuff -- it makes us sad, concerned and anxietied.

Think we will stick with this last appt. for Friday with this Psychiatrist. All we will do is repeat what I told her on the phone but in person. Makes a lot of sense. She said to keep giving him the Depakote 125mx 3 time a day, Risperdal 2 0.25 morning and afternoon, then at bedtime 1mg Risperdal, clonidine and depakote. The poor kid just stays tired. I would think since january his body would be use to it or something. He peed the bed again this am and doctor said it is not the Risperdal -- i don't know what to believe anymore. I asked ryan why and he said he didn't know why and i'm sorry.

[QUOTE=hiker1961]

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My son is NOT bipolar, however, he is adhhhhhhhhhhhd, has a speech delay as well as sensory. He is NOT autistic, we was evaluated at Boston's Children Hospital. He has been teased some about speech, but once he tells us, we go to the school and they stop it.

Like it was mentioned in another post, you have to treat the bipolar first then your treat the adhd. ADHD medication only exasperates the bipolar. I am suprised that nothing has happened yet!

I also want to mention that my son could NOT tolerate adderall. It made him angry, he looked high - his eyes were all dialated, and he eventually had a horrible melt down, like a psychotic episode - all brought on by adderall.

He is 9, almost 10, and has been on concerta and guanfacine since he was 7. He is growing and doing well in school both academically and socially.

I just wonder if you should get the bipolar reevaluated, along with the meds. I read another post on the boards mentioning that adderall made her son sleep to the point of falling asleep in class and the school had to call the parents.

Once you find the right med AND diagnosis for your son, things will change. If school is telling you that he is not joining in at recess when he normally does, I would call the prescribing doctor ASAP. Something is up.

Keep us posted!

Regards!