Rage in 9 year old | ADHD Information
We sound like we are in identical situations, right down to the heely shoes. His grandparents interfere like that, and it just makes our life worse. We said no to heelies, they bought them. We said no to an electric guitar (none of knows how to play, it's loud and annoying, we can't afford lessons for him) they got the guitar for him anyway. It's caused probs for us. He is constantly taking his rage out on my son, lying to us, screaming at me, and disobeying the rules. I am ready to pull my hair out. On top of that, my husband gets mad at me if I ask him to discipline him. Our house is in turmoil. My husband and I got married in June. He has 2 kids full time, and I have 2 kids full time. This was supposed to be our newlywed time. I have dreamed of it all my life. I spend almost everyday in tears, and have had to go on depression meds for it. I have epilepsy, and it was fully under control until we got married. I don't know what to do anymore.This sounds like a mirror image of my son from the ages nine to just recently (he is almost 12.) We had gone with the ADHD diagnosis alone until he was 11, we then saw a new doctor who diagnosed him with an underlying anxiety problem, mild depressive disorder, ODD, and ICD. He is taking Lexapro now and clonidine as well as the Adderall XR. What a big difference we have seen. I am not recommending that you use medication first. We tried a lot of behavioral strategies as well. We continue to use the reward and consequence system that we have in place and between the two of them (medication and reward/cons. system) he is doing much better. It does always seem a constant battle though! Just when you think things are going better something happens to through a wrench in the plan. It makes me sad when I hear his peers saying he is annoying. We try to discuss the "class clown" act he puts on to get approval, and try to tell him that this is getting annoying to his classmates. I ask him to stop and he says.."It's hard." I guess my message to you is, I understand what you are going through. I think some of it is the age and there definately sounds to be some underlying anxiety or ODD. Keep seeking support and try to stay positive. You will find the answers.We went through the same thing last year with my youngest. The stress of a new school and failing, with undiagnosed ADHD and learning disorders was so bad she went into depression and anxiety and defiance (massive violent rages). We started a positive reinforcement behavior plan at school and home, worked with the rages (avoided escalation, talked calmly, gave her space to calm down, and lots of praise for every little positive progress), finished the diagnostic process and started meds.
The meds have helped the school failure issue. She went form Ds and Fs to As and Bs. They have also helped the social issues. With success in these areas the anxiety and depression are now gone.
The positive reinforcement plan has made our home much more pleasant. And the rage managment has helped her learn better ways of expressing her anger and resolving issues.
We are lucky not to have the outside influences making things even worse to deal with.
I know I am going to go against the grain on this but one of the worst things you can do for our kind of kids is to give in on consequences. You told him that if he didn't wear his shoes the way you approved they would be taken away, TAKE THEM AWAY. He can earn them back and you can make a new rule about them at the time they are returned, but not following through with your rules is very damaging to your authority.JMO
I can definitely relate to some of what you are talking about. I too have a 9 year old son who has a very hard time taking NO for an answer. I often feel like I am walking on eggshells with him. He doesn't really go into rages but can easily become very irritable, moody , depressed, negative, uncooperative, defiant and disrespectful. He also has ADHD and we tried treating him for that but it only exacerbated his moodiness and irritability, so now we are re-evaluating things because if there are other issues going on (such as bipolar or some kind of a mood disorder), sometimes the ADHD meds can make that worse and you have to treat the other problems first. Has your son's behavior been worse since beginning the ADHD medication or was he like this before treating him for ADHD? If it is new or worse since starting him on ADHD medication, you may want to talk with your doctor about it. Good luck!
Check out the book the explosive child...you will find some strategies in this book that may help....one of the big messages that I learned was to pick your battles.
I think having loose shoe laces most likley has a natural consequenc...if he can't walk I believe that he will fix them to the point where he can walk...I probably would not take the shoes away unless he is bumping into people in the house or in public or if wearing the shoes is a privledge that he has to earn.
I forgot about the book, the explosive child. It's excellent. I took it out of the library.
I agree with picking your battles. My son wears nothing but sports pants and refuses to wear any shoes with laces. We don't care about the sports pants but we absolutely make sure he wears appropriate clothing for religious services, functions, etc.
Last month it was the coldest day of the winter, below zero and my son refused to take his gloves. We figured, he'd learn the hard way.
As far as getting his hair cut -
You just have to always intervene when safety is involved.
I think loose shoe laces is the style. My son, when he wore laces, left them untied - we couldn't figure it if it was the style or if he just didn't know how to tie them. He could tie them but he would get frustrated if the knot didn't come out perfect so he just gave up.
Hvae you thought about standing back and choosing your battles?
Do the laces in the shoes harm him? If not then why not let him choose, chances are all the other kids at school wear them that way, and by making him wear them your way you are making him stand out.
My 9yo went to school this morning wearing 1 leopard furry converse, and 1 pink furry converse with black and green laces, and as long as it isn't hurting her, or anyone else i don't care.
have you checked into Bi Polar?
edbson39162.4672916667Hi. I also have a child with both anxiety and ADHD. He is 14 now, but back when he was 9.....his anxiety was at its peak and he would go into rages and was generally one very sad, frustrated child.
One thing we learned in our case was until his anxiety was addressed, it was like fighting a lost cause to control the ADHD. We ultimately had to put our son on Zoloft for the anxiety and for him, it was a miracle combined with therapy to address the anxiety. After we got things calmed down from that, we started trying to treat the ADHD....he is predominately inattentive... but does have some H.
What type of treatment has your son had to address the anxiety? In my opinion you have to separate the two....anxiety and ADHD.
As others have suggested...you've GOT to read The Explosive Child:A New Approach to Parenting Chronically Inflexible Children. It uses the Basket A B C approach which is similar to the "pick you battles" approach.
You cannot let your son engage you in to the point to where you are screaming. He has victory if you allow him to do this. Learn to disengage. Better yet....the book will teach you to better predict the things that set him off and use approaches to prevent meltdowns.
Bottomline...... you can't use standard parenting approaches with these kids. Kids rage for different reasons, but with our kids......anxiety and frustration are the biggest trigger points.
Okiemom
Can't offer anymore than a hug ((Hug)) but I can tell you what we are doing.
I've been going through the same thing and we just recently got a diagnosis and my son is 13 - just diagnosed ADHD and definately has anxiety, depression and Oppositional definance dissorder.
What kind of treatment is he getting for the ADHD? We are waiting for a neuro test so right now my son is seeing a therapist, which he doesn't think he needs. He's not on medication yet because the pediatrician won't prescribe them without the definate neuro diagnosis.
You have to try not to fly off the handle. It's impossible sometimes.
Before we were told it was ADHD, we too, would fly off the handle. You really can't. It does no one good. Ofcourse, you still can't let him get away with things that are wrong, but if you can determine he is acting up from anxiety or any ADHD related symptoms, try to take a deep breath and stay calm.
When my son gets verbally abusive, the pshychologist has told me to give it no more than 15 seconds and leave the room.
Oppositional definance dissorder is present over 40% of the time in ADD.
I bet your son is better on the weekends when school isn't an issue. We try to bring up issues with my son when he is not stressing over a school issue.
What we have found works somewhat is trying to keep calm and controlled, even when he is raging. When he is in his room, banging, and crying, we were told by the pshychologist to let him be. I make sure my son isn't hurting himself and eventually he works it out.
If he is raging, at that point, there is nothing you can say or do. Being calm is key. Also, don't engage him an argument. Say, "no", administer the discipline and walk away.
My son has broken our computer keyboard by banging it out of frustration. He denies this
He has broken pencils in half, which we find on the floor in his room.
I know my son's definant behaviour is because he can't handle stress in any form. He too, can't handle the word "no" nor thinks he is ever wrong.
We also try to anticpate any situtations that may cause stress, and therefore tantrums, and plan for them.
I wish I had the magic answer but you are not alone. Traditional parenting just doesn't work with our kids.
Been a LOOONG time since I've posted. I have a 9 yr old adhd/anxiety/depression son.
We're only treating his ADHD at this time. Anxiety/depression have subsided for awhile, although, I think we're having a "flare up" right now. Anyhow, my 9 year old son has a lot of rage. I think it stems from frustration. He is having issues with school work right now and that has been a big STRESS for him. He doesn't hadle pressure or doing things wrong very well.
Example, he needs to take the trash cans out for trash day, he didn't want to do it, but I made hime, I looked outside and he accidentally tipped on over and some trash feel out, he was punching and kicking the trash can and crying and yelling
We did not want him to have heeley shoes, we'll grandparents bought them for x-mas. We allowed him to wear them, next, he wanted to do the thick "bar laces", we didn't want him to but compromised and said OK, as long as they are tired fairly tight so they are not falling off your feet. We said we'd take them away if we found they are not laced correctly. Guess what the wheels are an almost daily issue and the shoes are so loose, he can't walk in them. I need to take them away right???
When I tell him to do something, whether it be to change a shirt, lace shoes, change shoes, go do something and if he doesn't want to do whatever it is ... he goes into a fit. Yelling at me, talking loud, crying, getting angry, clentching fists, mumbling under his voice, ect.. this only flares me up and then I fly off the handle and yell and scream or spank him (not often)
Becuase of the shoe episode this AM, he is now grounded w/no TV, I will probably make him do some extra physical chores and even write me a letter of apology. I was late for work too.
I don't know if it's his age or a combination of factors. Is he trying/wanting to be more independent or what? He CAN'T understand or accept that HE DOES NOT GET TO MAKE HIS OWN CHOICE. That is the bottom line, he thinks he can do what he wants when he wants. HELP!
Just needed to vent and some support. Thanks.
Have you checked into whether or not he has oppositional defiant disorder (ODD)?
No we have not.
Would that "show" during adhd testing or is that additional?
Thanks for the replies everyone. I do value and take into consideration everyone's thoughts and experiences.
It's good just to vent or to hear that I'm not alone.
Well, the Heely's are gone for now. We have talked with him over the last several months about being trustworthy and the make the correct decision when mom and dad aren't around... I found that while at school, he had re-laced his Heely's.... so he got them taken away and will have to earn them back by "respect" towards his father and I.
The shoes (or whatever else it may be) are not the issue, really! It's that fact that he can't accept our authority, it's a power issue. The shoes is just the tangible piece that it all plays out in. I KNOW there's a word/term for this, just can't think of it right now
Thank you everyone.
First let me say we have our own issues and I am certainly not perfect about handling them but...I have a 5,7,9, and 12 year old. The 7yr old is ADD innattentive. These kids have so many struggles that we can't always understand what they are feeling. A 9 year old without ADHD stuggles to fit in at school and have some independence. They need to have the ability to make some desicions for themselves. It must be ten times worse for a 9 year old with ADHD. I agree whole heartedly with those who said to pick your battles. For us we "bargain". I say, "No you can't wear the same dirty shirt to school that you've been wearing all weekend but you can choose somethng else on your own and you can decide what pants to wear." (This doesn't always work but most of the time it does.) Also, a very wise counselor told me that sometimes in the heat of the moment us parents say "no" but given the chance to reflect we find that we were probably wrong. It's OK to go to your child and say "Hey I've thought about this and you made some valid points, I was wrong. Let's talk about this without flying off the handle and we can compromise." I think we get so wrapped up in the fact that our child is ADHD that we have our guard up all of the time and look for the fight. I know I do sometimes. It is a valuable lesson for our children to see that we are not perfect and can admit mistakes. Does this make sense? I know I'm rambling. Sorry
Thanks wyatt's mom for the reply. You did not offend me in anyway..
We have a counselor and we will visit her this Thursday, we really should have started seeing her a month or so ago.
We seem to visit the counselor when things "flare up", rather than on a regular basis.
Thank you
Thanks for your reply everyone. I value and take into consideration everyones opinions whether is the same or different as mine. I am very open minded. It is nice to know that "we're not alone" and that others go thru the same things we do.
I have no problem talking with my child (I probably "talk" him to death), I have no problem admitting when I am wrong and trying other, new, creative methods to living life with an adhd child. I have no problem apologizing to my son and explaining myself, should I explode and fly off the handle.
I am really at my wit's end and I am sad to say that I feel as if I have given up
I have always, pushed, pulled, stuck my neck out, understood, showed compassion, explained for, been patient with, stood up for, tried to teach him, and been there for him and have always been my son's biggest fan thru all of this pain and suffering and I feel as if I can do it no more.
I feel that if he can't help himself (by showing responsibility, remembering, respect, ect), I can't help him and I actually (I know this is childish), I refuse.
Homework for example (which is a HUGE) issue right now, I will give him ONE chance and he he doesn't put effort, is screwing around or being uncooperative, I say, no go ask your father... and guess what, If dad isn't home, it doesnt get done and my son will suffer the consequence at school the next day.
Shoes, I say, here's your school shoes, but them on and he wants to argue, forget it, I'll put them in the trash can.
I understand your "pick your battles". There are some issues we refuse to budge on. Shoes, hair, disrespect, and personal responsibility (lying) are the main ones in our family. This is our rule... you follow our rules and that's the way it is. All of our rules are for a reason and are NOT obsurd or outlandish. They are simply "house" rules.
My daugther who is only 5 has no problem whatsoever following our house rules and is a breeze to deal with in all aspects of our family life.
The ONLY thing we ask our of our 9 year old son is "do what we say", whether that be chores, manners, answering our questions when we ask, ect...
and I never ask my children to do something I would not do myself....
Please pray that God give me emotional and mental support...
Thanks.
I'm sorry that you're at your witts end and I'm very sorry if I offended you. My son sees a very good counselor who "sees" me as well and she has taught me to accept that I can not parent Wyatt the same way that I parent the other three. I also can not have the same expectations. That really stinks but that's just the way it is for us. I know I'm saying this wrong. I have had to accept that I'm not super woman and I can only do what I can do. If he goes into the world unprepared with an atttitude then he will suffer and I will hurt terribly for him but I can't fix everything and he can't do everything I expect. Does that make sense? You are not alone. There are days that I go lock myself away from my son because I've reached the breaking point. Besides getting frustrated I feel guilt because I can't "fix" him. Part of what I meant by "pick your battles" is exactly what you said about the homework. If he doesn't want to do it then you can't kill yourself to make him and you should try not to feel guilty about it. Do you guys have a counselor? I would have jumped off a Cliff by no if it wasn't for ours.