I agree, the reward systems work the best. My dd is also 7 and ADHHHD. We don't use marbles - but a similiar system with some old poker chips we had around. An advantage being she knows blues are for social skills, reds for following the rules, and whites for doing something extra special. When she gets 7 blue or red, she gets to pick from an activity jar (bubble bath, nail painting, trip to the dollar store, etc.) Plus, they are worth 25cents each. Whites are worth 10 cents. She earned enough recently for us to go in 1/2sies for a pair of "Heelys." She is thrilled and I remind her everytime she puts them on that she has earned them for good behavior.
Punishment just makes her mad - I think it is a reminder that she is different and can't do as well as the others. We still make the punishment fit the crime as that is the real world. I also have a 4 year old who is not ADHD, but on the same reward system. I only give out the chips at night when they are in their own rooms, and also have "challenge chips." dd#1 - an extra red chip for every am and pm of good behavior off meds (she's on Tenex and Concerta). DD #2 gets a "challenge" chip for not teasing (she's just a stinker and smart as a whip, that's her challenge).
My measure of success is whether or not I think I need to start saving for college, or bail, at the end of the day. Since implementing rewards, I find that most days, I do think saving for college would be appropriate.
Adderall made our son's behavior worse. ADHD just seems to be a quick answer. Our son was diagnosed with Bipolar/ADHD mixed type, but he is also showing little signs of Autistic behaviors. I read that treating a child with stimulants for the ADHD if it WORKS it calms the child. If it makes the behavior worse it needs to be change and eventually change the doctor. We are getting more than two opinions. It is very frustrating and works hard on the nerves. Clonidine is a great calmer. We use that. His meds still arent' right. We are seeing the Psychiatrist and family counselor this week. Time outs aren't working, nothing is working.................. WE HAVE TO HANG IN THERE. I cried a lot this weekend because our son just was in a mode to misbehave, do mean things, want everything in the stores -- we don't give him anything for fit behavior so everyone loooooooooooks at at us. The child knows how to open his door on the suv. He stands there in the rain screaming that he can't open it just cause -- things like that. People look at us!!!
I think you might want to try the marble system (orgam's post (i think i spelled that correct)). We are working on implementing it because she needs some kind of structured behavior model. You could put down the items that you most want to work on towards her getting marbles (i.e. like brushing your teeth +2 marbles, washing your own hair +3, getting dressed +2, etc.). Will help her start to be accountable and also will give her praise for doing these things. If you don't want to give her money once she's earned so many marbles you could say at 20 marbles we will go to the park or 20 marbles extra tv time things like that. My daughter wakes up very early on Saturday and Sunday also. And I tell her that she cannot turn the t.v. on in her room until the clock says 7:00 and she can't wake me up till 8:00 and I usually put a snack and a water bottle by her bed before I go to bed so that she can eat it in the morning because she is always straving in the morning. Hang in there I know its tough, my daughter is also 7 and I have a 2 yr old and my husband works about 60-65 hours a week and I get sooo stressed out and just ended up yelling and yelling which only makes things worse and doesn't do any good for my daughter's self esteem. So that is why Im implementing the marble system also. I got two big poster boards and listed everything that she earns marbles for on one and on the other listed what she loses marbles for (talking back, lying, ....etc.). Hope this helps! And you are not alone. Here's one big
for you.Something that has worked well for us in the morning is a picture checklist for my children. They have a list and they have to complete each thing, in order by the time they leave for school. If they do, they get a point, if not they don't. Points are used to earn things on the weekends (these are things that they have chosen.) This works well with my adhd son and my anxious daughter. We also try to do as much at night as possible. We take showers, set clothes out, pack backpacks, put coats by backpacks etc. These points have been very motivating. The can rent movies on the weekend, get a game night with mom and dad, have a friend over etc. Somethings they have to save a couple of weeks for.Bella...YOUR NOT ALONE....
While doing laundry find 5 of your daughters favorite out fits..and place them on hangers....complete with socks panties hair bows and what ever else... when its time for your child to get dressed...tell her to pick out an outfit...
Hygiene can be fun...allow her to pick out one of two things...from tooth paste to tooth brushes....shampoo and so on...putting her in control is always helpful...and helping her make decisions will benifit you both...but only give her two sets of things to choose from. The ADHD brain is so active...while your talking to them they are thinking of something else , I can assure you of that..thats why they cannot retain much...
Like most children today..sending them to their room is not a punishment....I would send mine to her room...and it was like I was sending her to a toy store...
Once during bath time my daughter was 6 and I told her "you know what?" most 6 year olds can wash their own hair....can you..? Be as persistant as your daughter....eventually she will catch on...
The day my daughter was born, they laid her next to me......I counted all her little fingers and toes..Perfect....everything about her was perfect...If she had been born with no feet..I would have helped her learn to walk...If she were born with a Seeable handicap I would have helped her..in as much as I could.. thing is with ADHD you cannot see the handicapness of it.... but you can feel it. Most ADHDers have extrodanary abilities..hidden in all the messes..and it is up to you to find her hidden talents...
Do this...find a trusted babysitter....and take some time for yourself away from both children...regroup your feelings and your energy..weve all been there....and thats why theres support groups like this...
Comforting hugs2U
Lore
I have a 7 year old daughter and it seems everyday gets worse and worse. We noticed right away she was different probly age of 2 or even sooner. She was walking at 8 months and doing things other children just weren't. Never content to just sit and play. We took her to All Childrens in florida and had her evaluated at 4 and they definately saw a really smart child with a high IQ with borderline ADHD....I was seeing a phsycologist. The following year we returned for another evaluation and this time it wasnt borderline anymore she was diganosed with ADHD. We started her off on Adderrall and that seemed to work for about a year not to mention using Clonodine at night. We tried other things but this is what we settled on for about a year. Then its like we woke and we were back to square 1. So we tried other meds. Daytrana was a nightmare and Strattera a waste of time. We are now on Focalin started out at 10 now we are at 20 with Buspar then Clonodine and Mitrazapine at night. Then an occasional 5mg of Focalin to get us through something if we have to go out. My husband is gone most of the time...so here I am. At a loss for words finally. I just want to know I am not alone and some of my thoughts (the angry ones) are ok. I just dont get this ADHD and I have been dealing with it for basically 6 years now. For example to start off with, hygiene.....I just dont understand bad hygiene. Any decisions she can not make...like picking clothes out to wear which would be simple but she does good in school. I still have to bathe her, remind her of everything everyday. Cleaning her messes ...its crazy. If I tell her something it never retained for very long. Oh a big thing there is no punishment that you can do she just doesnt care. Time outs, or taking things away....nothing works. Then theres the social situation which is nonexistent.... I have a 3 year old who is so different and so innocent to all this and I feel like she suffers because of my 7 yr old. Anyone in the same boat...please let me know I am not alone...theres just moments I feel regrets and I love my dd to death but.............
Some days I feel if there was a physical handicap it would be easier you see it and take care of it, but this I feel so lost. Some days when she gets off the bus I wish I had the child that would run up and be happy and be like I had a great day today how was your day?! But instead I get this moody child the moment you see her you never know what to expect. I am not saying everyday is this way but 4 out of 7 days it sure feels like it. Now if she wants something then this sweet child comes out, and I wish that just doing something regular she would be this way. Last night I told her when she wakes up (she wakes at the crack of dawn) to try to be quiet and go on your computer and not to wake me or her sister. Well that was all thrown out the door because I was woke up along with her sister and when I went down stairs the milk gallon was on the coffee table crumbs were everywhere, cheese wrappers everywhere things in the fridge were opened up and the counters were a mess. This is a common morning. I have MS so getting sleep until at least 8 is sometime crucial for me, especially since I get her up for school 5 days of week so the weekends I count on it. She has so many options in the morning computer, tv or the play room but she chooses to do none of those things. Its like the more messes the better for me to clean up and this is a regular thing. Another thing I was always brought up with manners at the table and I feel at the table she eats like someone who has never had a meal in her life. I fix her plate and my other daughter and by the time I make my plate and sit at the table she is ready for seconds....anyone else experience this? Not to mention the food is on the table and floor and usually on her. I just am starting to feel lost! We see a phsychiatrist once a month for an hour but she is quiet and shy there (not the child I see at all) I also have let her pick things out regarding the toothbrush and all but its a constant reminding of her to actually use them! Its the same way with picking the clothes up or even shutting the drawer for her underwear or pjs. I have to tell her everyday. I know sometimes its just easier for me to do it. But I am tired of doing when I know she has the capability to do it. Sorry for the rambling...............Oh no bellagrl68, don't feel alone. I have two kids also. I feel like my son often gets neglected because of my dd. The only difference is my son is older. I think I tend to think he can take care of his self sometimes , but that doesn't take away the fact that he still needs attention.Dear Bella....
I can relate totally to you...and I know exactly how you feel....my daughter rose to the crack of dawn but ONLY on the weekends....on school days I had to practially drag her out of bed..none the less kicking and screaming...and I was always late for work.
I too went down stairs to see this horriable mess not once but several times....The horror of seeing flour and syurp..and sugar..eggs..any thing you can imagine being emptied every where...only to hear MOMMY I was trying to make you pancakes....I swear I didnt know wheather to laugh or cry....
Reguardless, this couldnt continue to happen. One thing I do know is that all children thrive from structure....wheather they are ADHD or not...
I think your daughter is old enough to reach the things you expect of her...
tell her shes not allowed to get up out of her bed untill you call for her....<unless it is to go only to the bathroom> and then she has to go back to bed..that weekends are for sleeping in. No exceptions...when she can reach this milestone....maybe you can add T.V time.<if one is in her room>..but thats it...no other choices.
tell her if she wakes you up that she will have to stay in the bed 10 or 15 minutes longer..in the mean time have a set time to get up yourself and be punctual..say by 800am or by 830am...shes not allowed to fix breakfast or anything till you get up...put a paper cup in her bathroom for some water. or a bottled water on the nightstand. I also agree with decent table manners......fix all plates at the same time and set hers last eat at the same time...if she finishes before you do tell her she cant have seconds till your done...make her slow down eating...while your at the table too....minding manners is so important....and better to learn while they are young. and yes i know that she changes when shes at the pshy office....but the comforts of home allow us to be our selves..and thats what you want really. but in perspective. At this age they can be such a help everywhere....never forget to praise the good things shes done....for every bad thing she does find.. something good in return... Instead of paying attention to her grumpy day at school..tell her WOW you must have had a rough day today...tell her you couldnt wait to see her when she got home....and hug her anyway...and say tomorrow I want to hear you had a Good day...
Ask her did you put your pjs away..? did you shut the drawer..? etc...some things are just normal child things....remind her.....you were so sweet asking for what you wanted...and you got it... from now on I want to see the same sweet Girl do the same thing all the time....dont just be kind and sweet when you think you want something....and I agree that she is capable of doing the things youve asked her to do....Children are not born knowing all these things....we gotta teach them everything we need them to know.
Someone once told me....Would I allow my child to cross an old rickity bridge...with rushing water under it with no rails or nothing by their side to hold on to..? My reply was No...If any thing I would want rails to balance her way over it..the same goes for life.....and the rails are structured disipline...Something to hold on to when we get scared.
With Much Love 2U...
Lore
yes, we keep his hair buzzed off. So little soap and little water works.
hiker1961
Will he let you keep his hair VERY short? I mean like buzzed? Or does his sensory issues prevent this as well? I am thinking that if you can keep his hair that short, a washcloth over his head may just be enough to keep it clean. I have never had one that upset with hair washing, but my grandson and granddaughter (ages 2 and 4) do not like it at all. I have to just do it quick and be done, but I must admit that sometimes it is easier to just agree to not wash their hair to get the rest of the body clean.
Or make sure that you schedule bath time right after a dose of the clonidine? If it calms him, and makes him sweet and happy, that may be the optimal time to pounce as it were......I would definitely check into some therapy for the sensory issues, it sounds like a major problem and every one would be more happy if he could get some relief from those...
Also remember that a daily bath is not necessary. If you can bathe him once or twice a week and do a sink cleanup the other days, he will be fine....with a boy and short hair, I would think once a week to wash it won't kill anyone. I would not be concerned with what people consider "normal" (a daily bath and hair washing). Your circumstance is not normal, and he will be fine with less frequent washings, I am sure.
Hugs to you and I hope that this helped at least a little.....
YES HE DOES HAVE ALL KINDS OF SENSORY PROBLEMS TOO POOR KID. I CAN'T EVEN CUT HIS TOENAILS WITHOUT A BATTLE. WE TRY TO COUNT, SING, A,B,C'S. AND IT IS HORRIBLE UNTIL THEY ARE CUT. DAD'S FEET ARE THE SAME WAY, HA. BUT HE CUTS HIS OWN. RYAN WANTS TO CUT TAGS OFF SHIRTS. DOESN'T LIKE STUFF ON HIS HANDS, SO HE WASHES THEM QUITE A BIT. HE STILL IS NOT REAL STEADY WITH A SPOON SO HE DROPS STUFF AND GETS UPSET. SO I PUT A TOWEL ON HIM AND TELL HIM ITS OKAY. WE CAN ALWAYS CLEAN UP. WHAT DOES SID STAND FOR??????????
WHEN RYAN WAS IN FIRST STEPS AT AGE 2 1/2 HE HAD AN OCCUPATIONAL THERAPIST THAT WAS REALLY GOOD AND USED DIFFERENT FUN THINGS LIKE CORNSTARCH AND WATER, JELLOW, RICE, BEANS, SHAVE CREAM, PLAYDOUGH, ETC. SOME DAYS WERE OKAY AND OTHERS WERE HORRIBLE. YOU COULDN'T EVEN PUT HIS FEET ON THE GRASS WITHOUT SCREAMING. HE USE TO WEAR DAFO'S (BRACES) FOR A YEAR OR SO. HE IS EXTREMELY TICKLISH ALL OVER. EVEN WHEN YOU BRUSH HIS TEETH. HE LAUGHS.
SO THE BATH CONSISTED OF SINK, WATER, SOAP AND WASHCLOTH. THEN AGAIN -- HE GOT HIS WAY AGAIN.
I'M LIKE FRAZZLED. I'M TRYING TO FIND A GOOD DOCTOR THAT WILL GIVE ME PROZAC OR PAXIL. SOMETHING. XANAX AREN'T DOING ANYTHING FOR MY NERVES, JUSTS HELPS ME SLEEP. MY HUSBAND TAKES PROZAC I THINK AND IT IS HELPING HIM.
AT SCHOOL THEY WANT TO STOP HIS OCCUPATIONAL THERAPY TOO. WE WON'T LET THEM. HE STILL NEEDS IT. I NEVER CAN GET REPORTS OF HIS PROGRESS. THEN THE OT SAYS I WON'T BE ABLE TO MAKE HIS I.E.P. MEETING.
THE WORST THING OUT OF ALL OF THIS FOR US IS OTHER KIDS MAKING FUN OF HIM BECAUSE HE CAN'T TIE HIS SHOES, HE CAN'T SPEAK PROPERLY -- HE HAS A LOT OF LETTERS HE CAN'T PRONOUNCE UNLESS CUED. WE GET "WHAT WRONG WITH HIM". I JUST CRY. MY HUSBAND EXPLAINS TO THE KIDS.
HOW DO YOU GET A CHILD TO TAKE A BATH THAT DOESN'T WANT TO. GOSH FOR BID IF I PUT WATER ON HIS HEAD TO WASH HAIR. HE SCREAMS, GETS INTO A PANIC. SOMEEEEEEEEE TIMES HE WILL GET IN TUB ONLY IF I SAY I WON'T WASH HIS HAIR. HE WILL KINDA WASH HIM SELF. WE ARE SEARCHING FOR NEW DISCIPLINING METHODS. NOTHING WE USE WORKS ANY MORE, EVEN THE TIMEOUTS HAVE MADE HIM MORE ANGRY. HE IS A VERYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY DETERMINED CHILD. WE'VE DONE STICKERS, GETTING DOWN TO "HIS LEVEL", DIFFERENT REWARDS. HE CAN'T HAVE SOMETHING EVERYTIME WE GO TO A STORE AND THATS WHAT IT GOT TO BE MONTHS BACK SO WE STOPPED. WE GO TO THE PSYCHIATRIST WED (THANK GOODNESS). I NEED SOMETHING TOO, HA. THIS IS ALL SO DRAINING AND STRESSFUL. I DIDN'T EVEN WANT TO GET OUT OF BED AND GET READY FOR WORK.
SID-Sensory Integration Disfunction
Would he do better if you let him wear his bathingsuit in the tub? This helped for my son, don't know why, but it did. It also helps when my hubby got in the tub with him. Strange indeed, but his was more due to anxiety than SID I beleive!
Just wanted to let you know you are not alone. I have a 6yo dd and a 3yo dd. I feel just awful that my 3yo has to play second string to the 6yo adhd. Today i told her it was her day, only to have the school call, and we had to drop everything. Boy was she mad. I try to read extra books with her and the time that we do have together i try to listen to everything that she says. I also enrolled her in a couple of art classes and such so that she can feel that she has some special time for her. Good luck. Its nice to know your in this club that you didnt ask to be in and to find out there is so many more of you out there. When I posted the other night I really was at my wits end. I feel sometimes no matter what I do its not good enough. Then of course I lose my temper and say things I definatly should not. So holding my tongue is something I definately need to work on. But I think people dont realize how hard it really is. My husband is gone so much of the time I don't think even he gets it, because when he comes home I am here. He's actually gone for a few months at a time....so coming home hes all refreshed and the play guy. While I am still the big bad mean mom. It just seems so unfair sometimes. This forum has given me life to know that I am not alone!!!! I really do appreciate all the comments left for me!! Today was definately better than Sunday but even good days have there ups and downs. Just wish my life wasn't such a roller coaster. I know everyone has roller coaster rides but there is days when I feel I am not coming off mine for anytime soon. THANKS ALL FOR LISTENING AND BEING THERE!I will try the bathing suit and see if he will take a bath. The major anxiety thing is that he knows he will get his hair washed and the thought of the water and his head is NOT GOOD. So I wet the wash cloth and wipe his head. But it is getting from point a to b.
Last night was completely stressful. As soon as dad picked ryan up from school he was hateful and hyper. Said all kinds of mean things. Even said he wanted a new mommie and daddy. I told him we were going to target to get something for the bathroom and I will find you a new mommie and daddy, but you know that mean you won' ever see us again. Well, that changed the tune. He got mad and said "you hurt my feelings" and "NO". By the time we got in target he knew we were there for one thing only and that was a shower curtain liner. He wanted EVERYTHING. Dad went to electronics and ryan and I went to bath stuff. He threw a fit like he was going crazy. He screamed and wouldn't quit, he hit and hit me until my whole lower arm turned red. I could NOT get him to stop. It was frightening. People WERE LOOKING at us like either i was a kid napper or beating him and all I was doing was asking him to "STOP". I let people hear that we will call your doctor when we leave here and get you help. Don't know if a horrible fit of BIPOLAR OR ADHD HIT. But we took him to the hospital psychology intake and talked (again) to another psychologist. We gave him a CLONIDINE so in a half hour he turned back into our LOVING SON. He was like NIGHT and day. He said he was sorry and doesn't know why he acts that way. My blood pressure went up and I felt funny. Ryan even laughed about "mommy sick" haa haa haa, and i'm going outside to play! I AM SOOOOOOOO DEPRESSED. We are taking him to the psychiatrist today. We also think he has touches of autism too. ANYBODY ELSEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE DEALING WITH THIS. THERE is NO behavior plan that workssssssssssssssssss.
Hiker1961,
I would suggest looking for a developmental psych. You might want to check out a nearby university for one. . I understand completely about the shoe tying. Has your child ever been tested for hypotonia? His hands may be too weak to be able to tie. My almost 14 yr old never mastered tying until he was almost 11. He can do the motions but cannot get the shoes to stay tied. When he was little we used shoes with velcro straps but as he got older peer pressure dictated tie shoes. So we bought elastic shoe laces. You can find them in most drug stores. All our child has to do its pull his shoes on. And what boy likes to take the time to tie anyway? lol! This has been a huge stresssaver here.
With kids with SID, it is sometimes hard for us to understand their 'fears' and actual pain from their sensory problems. My gs swims like a fish, can sit in the tub until the water turns to ice but can't handle taking a shower. And, hair washing? He has very thick hair and won't allow a razor near him.[Sid again] So I have to cut it for him. He can't stand the lights and noise at a barber shop. Finally, I took him a few times with me to the beauty parlor[a friend has a shop in her home] I made him sit while I got my hair washed. I ignored him and commented repeatedly how good it felt to have my head washed and how if I won the lottery I would hire someone just to wash my hair and massage my head. Eventually we got him to sit in the chair with his head back and listen to the water. We even got him to wash My hair. It took a few months until he finally was willing to try to get his hair washed in that manner. A lot of coaxing and praise helped. Now it is the only way he will get his hair washed. He goes twice a week[I wish he could wash it more!] And we are still working on the problem.
Meltdowns in stores were another biggie. He hated the buzzing sound of the florescent lights, then factor in the crowds, sensory overload! So we took him for very short trips to the store. As soon as we saw signs of a meltdown we took him to the car . Dh sat with him while I finished up. I can't tell you the number of times we had to leave the store and leave a cart full of groceries. He does much better now. His sp ed class room uses lamps. He has so many sensory problems. It seems like a new one develops every week.
And cry? I have shed buckets of tears. Then I take a deep breath and keep going.
It isn't easy, sweetie, and you are not alone. My gs is an aspie [officially dxed just 2 mo. ago] with adhd, sis, capd, and an alphabet soup of other dxes.
I think the most important thing we have to do, as parents, is to pick and choose our battles. Yes, we have to make accomodations for our children's problems but we also have to help them learn what is considered acceptable behavior in our society. Finding the balance is the key.
And I have been dealing with adhd for over 37 yrs. My gs's father was adhd and I am ,too. My gs' father was in a catistrophic construction accident 5 yrs ago. He suffered major brain damage as a result. He is now on a 7th grade level. Along with his brain damage came a host of sid problems, odd type problems, etc. So I have to deal with two separate individuals with varying degrees of neurolgical problems. And, to add to the mess, I have CMTD, Fibro, arthritis and have had multiple back surgeries and fusions. Life may not be fair but it sure is interesting!
BTW, my gs is a B+ student and will be going into 9th grade. There is a light at the end of the tunnel. I just pray daily that it isn't a freight train! lol!
Bella...I feel for you. I am knew to this group and am in the process of getting my 8 y/o dd evaluated for ADHD. My dd hates to brush her hair, hates to take a bath, always coming home from school in a rotten mood claiming never to have a "good" day. If you told her the sky is blue I think she would argue with you. She has difficulty going to sleep at night has even complained about her "brain wont stop thinking". For her, punishment seems to not work as she seems to care for nothing tangible like taking TV away etc. I have tried to do reward charts, but is like she does not care even then to earn the "rewards". I always wonder if it is something I did or didnt do when she was a toddler...did I spoil her, was I too hard on her, and so on. When she has what I call her "normal" days she can be so pleasant to be around, but those days are very few and far between.
Wish I had some answers for you, but just know you are not alone. I have 2 other children. She is the oldest so, of course, they try to follow her lead, which is not a good thing. My ds...you take him somewhere w/o her and he is just as sweet and easy going, but with her around...a different story. Anyway, just hang in there. I have seen several have had some words of wisdom for you already....I'll be keep reading too right along with you.
Good luck!
hi hiker 1961 i just read your post. i just wanted to tell you that you are not alone. i was wondering if he has seen a developmental pediatirican? my 6 yo dd has adhd, possible CAPD and some autistic social traits (hard time with eye contact esp at school, following conversations and social ques). i think that so many charateristics overlap that it is hard to see what the real picture is.
it's almost like watching a train wreck. it is so horrible to witness but you just can't take your eyes off of it.
I cry a lot too, my husband has found me crying in the bathroom when he comes home more often then i would like to admit (don't want to cry in front of the kiddies). but some days i am so amazingly optimistic, i truly believe that there will come a day when my daughter will come home and say, "it's ok mom, i can now deal with all of this inside me, you can chill out now."
The meds for my daughter for the attention and hyperactivity took about 8-9 months to figure out. lots of trial and error, i wish there were a better way. i think we found the right dosage now, but it is april and school will be out in 7 weeks. she takes ritalin la and i have to open her pills every night and remove a couple of grams. litteraly just a little too much and she is spacy and just a little to less and she goes into hyper drive.
i would say deal with one issue at a time. it can be overwhelming to deal with all the issues at once. now we are dealing with the emotional issues, tantrums and crying, or heaven forbid she get angry, it takes her hours to get over.
another thing my husband and i do is deligate. this is new for us, (but after you find your wife crying in the bathroom one too many times, it calls you into action.) i deal with the teachers, and reading specialist, and he deals with the speech and language specialist and audiologist. it is a lot like playing the telephone game, we talk to one person and then talk to each other, and then call the person back with more questions. but it does allow us time to make informed decisions.
i know this is long, but you are not alone, and you will get through this.