Tonsil removal and ADHD | ADHD Information
Thanks for this info. Can you tell me how does caffeine help with ADHD? My son's kindergarten teacher suggested I try that with him last year. I did not.I tried it with each of my kids prior to meds as kind of a preview. It worked for a little while and then quit working. Caffeine tends to need increasing amounts for the same effect and can be hard to manage. It works for about 3-4 hours and you need to start again. Some people use it as the meds are wearing of to extend the effective period for homework. The biggest problem is managing it so that you do not get side effects (rapid heart beat, jitters, increased blood pressure) and keep it effective. Frankly ADHD stimulants are safer and more effective. But as an adult, caffeine has its place.DD has no tonsils or adenoids and has ADHD. Removing them did not affect her sleep patterns or her symptoms. It idd however affect her chronic ear infections.My son had his tonsils and adnoids out due to chronic strep infections 6 months after his ADHD dx. The first thing his ped asked at his next appointment was if there were any changes in his ADHD symptoms. No such luck.My ds had his tonsils and adenoids removed before being diagnosed withADHD. He basically had sleep apnea. He snored so loud and would "nap"
for 3-4 hours during the day because he didn't sleep at night. It helped
tremendously, but he was still diagnosed with ADHD. I imagine that it would
be much worse had we not done anything. My ped. dismissed his snoring as
nothing to worry about, but I set up an appointment with an ENT. The ENT
immediately set up his surgery after she saw how large his tonsils and
adenoids were. Go with your gut feeling and get it checked out.Anything that interferes with proper rest can cause or exacerbate ADHD symptoms. If there is a sleep issue, it should definitely be addressed.
There was an article by Dr. Isadore Rosenfeld in the L.A. Times under the Second Opinion caption this past Saturday. I wanted to share it with everyone. He said if your child has ADHD and trouble breathing, tonsils may be to blame. He goes on to say the following:
Aobut 4.4 million children have been diagnosed with ADHD disorder since 1991, the number of prescriptions to treat the condition has increased by 500%. Now there may be another treatment option: removing the tonsils and/or adenoids of ADHD sufferers. Years ago, most children had their tonsils removed if they often got sore throats. Today, the surgery usually is done only if a child is troubled by repeated ear anad throat infections or obstructed breathing, especially while sleeping. A recent study at the University of Michigan found that respiratory symptoms improved in children after their tonsils and adenoids were removed. And about half of those with ADHD before surgery no longer qualified for that diagnosis one year later. The researchers theorize that the positive effect on ADHD may be the result of better sleep. Doctors caution that these operations should not be done solely for ADHD but only if the tonsils and adenoids are causing serious respiratory problems. That's because tonsils funtion as part of the immune system.
I plan to check with my pediatrician about this because my son does have trouble breathing at night and also we have been told by his dentist that he has huge tonsils. In the past my pediatrician dismissed the huge tonsils but now I'm wondering if he might consider removing them. Hope this is helpful I did not know where to post this.
I think there is no doubt that having enlarged adenoids/tonsils can have really bad effects on sleep......which in turn shows up in many ADHD like behaviors. If a non-ADHD child suffers from this, I can certainly see them getting misdiagnosed just based on the sleep deprivation behaviors.
If an ADHD child, however, has this issue going on.......it's like a double whammy hitting them....and it's hard if not impossible to separate out which behaviors are related to which disorder. But you'd still get the adenoids removed if it were recommended, and maybe perhaps some of the symptoms would not be just as severe.
As a parent, you definately need to get this issue checked out by an ENT physician. But I wouldn't get my hopes up that mosts kids diagnosed in the past 15 yrs fall into this category of misdiagnosis.
My son had all sorts of ear infections, sleep problems, etc..... but no adenoid problems. He also was dx'd with an auditory processing disorder (APD) and language processing disorder.....and ultimately ADHD Primary Inattentive with Anxiety.
Okiemom
okiemom39183.7533912037My son had his tonsils and adenoids removed, too, and he has ADHD, APD, and a language disability. He had them removed for dental/orthodontic reasons, and I didn't see any noticable improvement in his ADHD symptoms.this is very interesting info. my son doesnt have a problem with tonsils but I do have a nephew that was never diagnosed with add or adhd but showed those signs, My advise to you is too get those things out not for the adhd but for the years you are going to spend dealing with the sore throat and pain, my nephew just got his out at 19 yrs old after years of doctors saying no. He had many infections on antibotics I would push to get them out. He is better now and not sick all the time.
Thanks for your reply I did manage to get the insurance thing cleared up and guess what the pharmacist yesterday was of course WRONG the authoriztion was for 10, 15 or 20. So I got the patches yesterday and he wore one today. He had an amazing day at school, got all his work done, got another good behavior book from the Principal. So he's happy right now, we are gearing up to go to his baseball game and I'm just going to leave the patch on a bit longer today to get through that. I'm afraid if I take it off now he will have another melt down and miss the practice.
Thanks to all who told me about the tonsil information. From what I'm hearing no one has really noticed any great change after the tonsils are removed.
[QUOTE=Joejoesmom]Thanks to all who told me about the tonsil information. From what I'm hearing no one has really noticed any great change after the tonsils are removed. [/QUOTE]
I wouldn't rule out whether this might help your child by people's experiences here. If they didn't have current ADHD issues, they wouldn't be here.
My daughter had her tonsils/adneoids removed after she was diagnosed because of chronic strep throat and snoring/sleep apnea. I did not notice a difference in her ADHD symptoms after having the surgery. I will say though that she does not get the little colds she always use to and actually doesn't really tend to get real sick after having this surgery so that was the bonus from having them removed. (okay i better find some wood to knock on after i just said that)
And big ((((((joejoesmom)))))) for you. I hope you get the insurance all worked out so you can get him on the right track with his medications.
I actually researched this when my son first started showing symptoms of ADHD because he had always had enlarged tonsils. Needlesstosay, when kindergarden started and he was having problems we went to a specialist and they removed his tonsils & adnoids. Unfortunatley here we are 4 years later and he still shows all the same symptoms as he did before they were taken out.
Before the dr. wanted to give ds the ADHD diagnosis, they asked me all sorts of questions about his sleep patterns, whether he snores, and other things. They told me that they wanted to make sure the behaviors we were seeing weren't caused by an issue that just looks like ADHD. I'm guessing this tonsil/adenoid study is along the same lines of what my child's dr. was getting at. Not getting enough sleep or getting poor quality of sleep definitely can cause behavior issues, learning issues, and all sorts of other problems. Allergies also can cause a lot of similar issues, so IMO, it's also important to rule out allergies. Before pursuing the ADHD diagnosis, we had extensive food allergy testing done for my child (we already knew that he has nearly every environmental allergy). It turned out he has no food allergies, but I'm glad we ruled it out (he has a history of having the most severe ADHD symptoms during pollen season, so we know that for him allergies lead to increased impulsivity and hyperactivity. Unfortunately, we're still seeing this during this pollen season, his first one on ADHD meds. We just increased his Focalin XR dose. Once that dose is stabilized, we're changing his antihistamine to see if that helps. If it seems to clear out his congestion and ear fluid, we'll then try decreasing the Focalin XR again -- or, by that point, it'll be the end of pollen season, so we'll step it down anyway).
On a related subject, my 3 year old had his adenoid removed and turbinates reduced in size (they're structures in the nose) due to chronic sinus infections (practically no drainage backward due to the enlarged adenoid, and little drainage forward due to the enlarged turbinates, so everything got stuck in there and not surprisingly led to one infection after another). Anyway, my adenoid research showed that, in some cases, allergies are an underlying cause of an enlarged adenoid or tonsils. When the allergen was removed from the person's environment (either food or an environmental allergy like dust mites or something else that's a frequent presence), the tonsil and/or adenoid often shrunk to normal size. Just something else to keep in mind when looking at possibilities for avoiding surgery.
Thanks to all of you for your information. You know the psychiatrist did ask about his sleeping and such. The thing is he doesn't wake in the night he just always seems to have a stuffy sounding nose and coughs sometimes. But when I take him to the doctor they seem to barely check him out and say that they can't find anything wrong. Or they say to get over the counter allergy meds and the problem is he won't take them even if we try so what can I do. I think because we are on a lousy HMO they don't push for testing.
Today was such a bad day for him at school he got into trouble at carpet time because a girl bumped him and he bumped her back and they both had to change their pins. His teacher is not the kind to help kids work things out instead she scolds them. Anyhow, he had a huge melt down when we got home and threw a skate board and cried and screamed. I had cut a patch down to a smaller size today and I was worried that it caused the mood problem so I took the patch off. Then he refused to go to his psychiatrist visit and I had to practically drag him there. The doctors decided to keep him on 10 patches. When I got to the pharmacy to fill them they said I only had 10 patches left on the card they give you and that the doctor had written for 30 so I can't use the card. Then they told me that the authorization I thought my insurance had agreed to was only for 20 mg patches not 10. They said I need to phone my doctor tomorrow and have her request the insurance do a new authoriztion for 10 mg patches. So now he will go without any meds for the next few days till I get this cleared up. What a pain this all is I feel so frustrated tonight I think I'm going to need antidepressants myself soon. Just joking about that but seriously doctors, insurance companies, pharmacies OH MY.
omg im 38 and still have tonsils my mom still does 60 and my brother does 44
but my middle brother had em cut out
hes differtent enough for us to question our mother of wether hes truly our full brother or not . were so rude its pathetic.
i always gargle with salt water and snort saline solution in my big shnaaz before the day before it typically gets bad
are saying breathright strips could help minor adhd symptoms?
or numbers of certian viruses inflame an antibody that creates havoc during low immune or high immune conditions?
anybody know why me,albert,and abe think so focused after eating meals of green peas? or am i just throwing darts
I have another question here. Has anyone found that their child started wetting their pants after starting any meds? My son wet his pants at school last Friday and now again today. His pants were soaked today to the bone. He is only 7 but he has not wet his pants in years.
Now that's a new one green peas. My son doesn't eat peas often he's not very fond of them. Maybe I should start presenting them a little more often. Funny because he loved fresh green peas as a baby. Good to hear tips like this any little thing migh help.hmmm
whan i say hmmmm it means im not sure
poop and pee can be defensive issues .
i would take him to a counselor and find out whats going on .
----------------------------------------------------
i think the green peas - are the only GREEN food i eat . oh and snap peas as snaks their so sweet , well ill eat whole leaf spinach in place of ice burg lettuce and blue berries instead of rasins on salad
i do notice even if its just a magic rock that my thought flipper doesnt make my important conversations get flaky from my side of a conversation
i know it wont change the structure of my brain , but i know my confidence is high just because i beilive i works.
i know this thread is about tonsils but im gonna tell a story i once heard from a physc.
physc. was perplexed that everything he tried wouldn't work . and the boy wouldn't do his homework was the biggest long term effect of his problems.
during a counseling session the boy started fixating on some very intresting looking colored rocks , no mater what direction the physc was going the boy was much more interested in these interesting rocks. finally the boy interupted the physc and said "why do you have those rocks on that table" the physc thouhgt for a minute. my grand father was part native american INDIAN.
he gave me these magic rocks when i was a boy they are supposed to give strength of mind when i hold them in my hands for few minutes with my eyes closed . so i keep them here when i need my mind to be strong and help me read and do my paper work when i have alot to do. the boy wouldnt keep his hands off them. at the end of the visit after the boy held on to them and cooperated he simply left . the boy left with out the magic rocks . but the next week the physc had three more rocks on the table and agian the boy was cooperative . the phsyc the told the boy that he called his cousin Oyasin the tribes medicine man . and he sent some of these magic rocks just for the boy.
they boy was delighted . the physc said to keep these rocks at home so they wouldnt get broken and that thier magic is suppossed to last all day. but that if you tell others the secret about the rocks they coul loose their power.
the parents used this magic time to set up strong study habits and test taking skills .
i think he said they were actually a pottery project his wife forgot to take with her.
i didnt hear how it turned out its been 12 years since i heard that story on the radio. as long as the kid believed the rocks were magic he had confidence and the phsyc suggested it to be concentration on mental projects. i had a few magic things when i was kid so understand this story .
a real rabbits foot my uncle charlie he created after hunting a rabbit and we made the rabbits foot after eating the rabbit. i did all sorts of things just cause of that foot . at seven i never got the whole sit quietly for twenty minutes and say "ing" 300 times i always fell asleep but with that magic foot i was able to do lots of thing my parents couldnt get me to do. my mom would say see if the rabbits foot can help you. i lost it at some point my parents tried to buy me one of those pretty white ones to no avail . then uncle charlie told me only the left front foot can be magic if its the first the time ive killed a rabbit just for food. he said i didnt need the magic foot really . he said i was being guided buy the magic foot to see all thiings i could do . the foot didnt really help make do anything . the foot helped me to think i could do things, but that i could do them even without the foot was the real magic that foot was trying to say.
its like he magic feather in the dumbo movie.
i wish i had more to add . i remberber being so jazzed about the foot, and the praise i got for my drawing skills at home. that was all i wanted to do at school in the third grade was draw.
hindsight that my attiude towards school work was a turn off because it didnt have the power that drawing had. drawing was magic but numbers and cursive letters were always sorrounded by disdane and sometimes anger by adults and my adult teachers.
i like to use magic when prompting kids , because they dont have to understand it for it to work.
hmmm
one more magic moment lol
my daughter up at 2am bouncing on the bed singing twinkle twinkle little star at the top of her lungs. i noded to my wife that i would take this one.
my dd and i were watching cartoons and often some character whips out a watch and spins it and hypnotizes another character and they do all kinds of crazy stuff.
well i saw a little star that used to be on her mobile the thing that hangs over an infants head on a crib. i never thew it away cause well im like that that.
any way i took it into her room creeping in very obviously very slowly very quietly. i pulled it out of my pocket and put it infont of her eyes and said Youre getting very sleepy , as it flashed and had a twinkle twinkle midi coming from it. she actully quelled her eyes and started rocking back and forth like she was under my spell (LoL) i got her to lay down as soon as i left the room she was at it agian. so i went back in this time put where she could get it and she did it to me . i layed there on the floor she even put covers on me as soon as her attention would go to something elsei would raise up, she would shush me i said "i need covers" and the lights too bright" she fell asleep in five minutes.
i still whip out the singing star instead of having control battles. its like the statement that that i dont have to say verbally ' its nearly sleep time and theres nothing you can do about it
as far as tonsils im getting them pulled asson as they say i can. i posted an articlel on this sitein adhd books and articles it said that certain things happen after contracting strep it was very intresting . like how ulcers are actually caused by viruses. possibly adhd complications are similar in creating ????? after a low or high immune respose that either protect the brain or allows too much of ????? during different stages of development hindering growth and development . and why so many add issues are varied in degree.
and further why the inconsistency of meds surrounding sicknesses could be plating a role , because sometimes were sick way before we have symptoms.
well thats a laymen for ya so general it may be true.
so here is some linls
http://www.adhdnews.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=26840& PN=1
http://www.adhdnews.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=26707& PN=1&TPN=1
Sammo39190.4215046296My daughter had her tonsils and adenoids removed at age 5 due to chronic throat infections. It made no difference in her ADHD symptoms or her sleep patterns. She does not snore as much as before, but continues to be restless and toss and turn a great deal. It did clear up her repeated throat and ear infections, however.