help with behavior | ADHD Information

Perhaps those of you who have older children with ADHD can give me some advice. My partner has a 9 year old son with ADHD-severe. He is a delightful, intelligent child who we fought (legally) long and hard for. We have lived together as a family for 3 years and he seems to be well adjusted. Over time we have noticed that he has some peculiar behaviors that tend to get him in a great deal of trouble.

He will make attempts to deceive us about silly things. And he's really bad at it. We have told him we can tell when he trying to decieve us and we know when he is lying in hopes he will simply be straight with us. (we really can tell) He will be told not to do something (ie can't take age inappropriate toys to school) one evening and then the very next day try to smuggle them ALL to school. And he gets caught EVERY time. He will lie about the dumbest things. "Did you brush your teeth"? 3 times he will say he did then I will follow up and he will simply look at me and go brush his teeth. He doesn't get in trouble for doing or not doing doing something, he gets in trouble for lying or being deceptive!

I can handle all the other "typical" behavior associated with ADHD, but I have a really difficult time with lying and deception. My partner summed it up well the other evening when she advised he does not learn from his mistakes. He continues to repeat the same behavior that continues to get him in trouble. And it's never anything serious. It's always little stupid things that one would think it would be easier to just either do initially and get it over with or be honest about if he didn't do it in the first place.

Does anybody have any similar experience? Any words of advice? He will be 10 in four months and behaves at times much like I would expect the 4 year old to behave.

Well, I can't give you advice, but CAN say it sounds like you are talking about my daughter! She is 12, will be 13 in August and does the SAME things. I will ask if she has her retainer in (for her teeth going to bed), she'll say yes, every night, when I say show me, she says "Oh, I forgot, I was doing it right now". I dont ask her any more, I tell her. I say go get your retainer. We have the same problem with bringing silly toys to school, now mind you she is in middle school. Today she was acting all grown up with her pocketbook and own money so they could go to Dunkin Donuts after school, then has a McDonald's Happy Meal toy in her pocketbook . Alwyas lies about homework, sys it is done, then when I go to check it she says she forgot. I used to punish her for lying about this stuff, but stopped because she is not really doing anything bad, and I feel most of it is impulsive, She just blurts out what I want to hear. She never really tries to deceive me. I have found her much more manageable if I can ignore some of that.

Try not asking. Try using directives. Dont say did you brush your teeth, just say go brush your teeth, if he says I did and you know he is lying, say well, tonight do them again (I do this all the time about teeth). check his book bag, if there are inappopriate things in there, take them out and juts say put these where they belong. Try to curb the behaviors not the getting him to own up.

Sorry not much help, I can tell you I will be following you post though! We live in the same world.

I can think of 3 issues that come into play for this behavior.

One is the lack of understaning or thinking through the consequences combined with impulsivity of ADHD; then being embarassed about being called on it, or deflecting blame. My youngest used to lie to avoid blame and to hide that she was bothered by things.

The other is the immaturity that comes with ADHD. These kids are about 30% behind thier peers in maturity, so a nine year old acting like a 7 year old is not unusual. They need extra coaching that is appropriate for thier maturity level rather than thier age.

Edited to add: I must have forgot the 3rd one . I had meant to type a 2 not a 3.

vickie39239.9291203704

Yes this is my 14 year old son -

Why do they do it? There is a small chance that they won't get caught. You may catch him 99 percent of the time but there is always that one percent that you don't!!

They are very impetuous - no control- so they do it and forget about it. As for not cleaning teeth and then saying they have,I feel it's because they are immersed in something else and they say yes so they can keep doing what they are doing. Changing course is difficult. Our son actually doesn't like the sensation of cleaning his teeth so I think that has a part to play as well.

We constantly find food and packets stashed under the couch. We tell him over and over not to do it but when he's sitting in front of the TV he gets hungry, sneeks the food and hides the evidence. This shows the facts that they can't see past the initial time frame and therefore see the conseqences of their actions.

I am at a loss for how to solve this. I have discussed this with his psychiatrist at length and we decided not to make a big deal about it. I agree with the idea of not asking but stating the situation and what you want him to do . "I see you haven't cleaned your teeth. You need to go and do this now"

Good luck!!! I understand your frustration so well!!

My son does the same thing, usually when meds have not been taken in the morning, like the brushing teeth lie. I just stand my ground, firm, structured, but still kind, and make him go brush his teeth!

I find by always sounding the same so my son knows what to expect from me, instead of going nuts on him and getting angry, I get further. I hope that makes sense to you guys.

Now my husband has trouble with that. He loses his temper at times and my son can't handle that. I thinks it frustrates him so he won't listen to my husband and gets mad at his dad as well.

Hi kroberts63,

I just wanted to mention about your brother and his son. His son probably has ADHD as well. That may help explain his out of control behavior. If your nephew is undiagnosed and not being treated, he is going to act out of control.

My son has severe adhd. Without meds, my son would be very impulsive, overstimulated, and in constant trouble, basically out of control. My son is the sweetest, most innocent guy BUT he is the one who gets himself in trouble because of his impulsive behavior due to him having ADHD. He is medicated, started end of his 1st grade year. He is now 10 and doing well. He would never be as successful without his meds.

I hope that since your brother was just diagnosed, that he will now have his son evaluated. Your brother probably had some poor parenting going on as well and that sure doesn't help a child with ADHD.

I know my husband, undiagnosed ADHD and same age as your brother, can really say some lousy things. I am constantly on my dh for how he is with our children. He is just too stubborn to get diagnosed. But he is also very grateful for all that has been done for our son.

Maybe you can help your nephew and brother!

Keep us updated!!

Take care

Contrary to the opinion of children the following are NOT "cruel and unusual punishments"
taking away the Nintendocleaning their roomcutting the grassdoing dishestaking out garbageputting a password on the computerUnder QUESTIONABLE we have:
cleaning up dog poop in the yardcleaning the bus station toilet
brushing spitting llamasfeeding the dog that sleeps in their room, onion rings
Under QUITE POSSIBLY "cruel and unusual punishment"
Tossing them out the window [the child, that is--unless you are in a basement apartmentDuct taping them to objects
Covering them in gravy and throwing them in a yard full of rottweilersHope this clarifies what parents should actually feel guilty about doing....

Well, what you described sounds a lot like my non-adhd son at that age and even older, now 16. I have come to the conclusion that kids don't believe that they are lying when they tell an untruth wherein no one gets physically or emotionally hurt, they're just trying to get their way. They have used their judgement to decide that you were obviously mistaken, and therefore they should be able to correct you. Are the things he does meant to be hurtful or harmful in any way? If not, it's probably just a case of not being able to deny himself what he wants when he's sure you just don't understand what's going on. Also, after years of making my son follow all the field trip and school rules (i.e. only sack lunches, NO lunchboxes; no soda in the cafeteria;no extra money on field trips; no toys on the bus, etc.) only to see many other children and their parents break those rules without repercussions, I've decided that maybe I'm too uptight about things. Maybe what I consider age-appropriate is really way off the mark in my son's social circle. And I realized that all those times I said 'no' to something like taking money on a field trip when some other kid's mom sent for the souvenir shop, I wasn't only teaching my son to respect the rules, I was teaching him to think of me as too strict and inflexible, which I hear reflected in the way he talks about those gradeschool field trips. He doesn't look back and say,"I really enjoyed the museum even thought I couldn't get that inflatable dinosaur." He says, "I liked that trip to the museum, but I wanted to shop in the souvenir stand like the other kids. They looked at their stuff all the way home on the bus." I digress, but I hope you get my meaning. I would bet that he has a friend or someone he'd like to be his friend at school who plays with and possible brings to school those same kinds of toys that you won't let him take.

My best advice is this: treat a lie like a lie when it is meant to be harmful, otherwise treat it like a test of authority, which we expect all kids to do. Wouldn't you worry about him if he were perfectly biddable and controllable? I would worry about how he was going to learn to make choices later on if he only did exactly what I told him.

Sounds like my 13 year old too.

He spends more time and effort on making up excuses than just doing what he is supposed to.

I wish I had the answer too but I hope you feel a little better knowing it's typical behaviour.

Thank you all for the support. I assumed that a great deal of the behaviors were certainly related to the ADHD. I do get confused at times because it it obvious that he knows what he has done is wrong. Such as trying ot sneak inappropriate toys to school. The day before he had taken one and was spoken to about the inappropriatness of that. He was told he could not do it. The next morning he packed up ALL of them. He tried to smuggle his backpack to the car before we were ready to leave...dead give away! Then when confronted, it was "oh, I...I...." He knew he wasn't suppose to do it. I guess the frustration comes from the not learning from previous experience.

What really floors us however, if he has repeated negative behavior, all we have to do is say "There will be no video games for (whatever the time period). The behavior is not repeated. It worked very well with "forgetting" homework. Once he lost his gaming for another "oh, I forgot" He didn't forget the remainder of the school year!

My partner and I have talked about how bad it makes us feel to have to use punishment as a way to help him remember and/or follow through with something. This can't be good. Are there ways folks have found that work as well but don't seem so negative?

I think you really have to pick your battles like with a toddler/preschooler. If he says he brushed his teeth, but didnt', it's really not that BAD of a behavior so maybe gloss over it, just be sure he brushes his teeth, but ignore the saying he already did it. The homework or bringing inappopriate things to school is different. Also just try to keep the discipline related to the behavior. A lot of this is very typical adolescent behavior for all kids not only ADHD kids. I think for our kids they are impulsive and dont think ahead to consequences so it is even more so. You obviously want him to understand lying it is not ok, but you cant live in contstant disipline mode and he will only get further "down" if he is always punished. Hopefully he will just learn he is going to have to brush his teeth or do homework or leave toys home, or whatever no matter what he tells you. Diane V39240.3882291667[QUOTE=kroberts63]

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Well, my son is exactly the same. In fact, the only thing that "gets to him" is taking away the computer on-line game.

My husband and I always feel badly when we punish or discipline him too. Thinking back now, before we realized he had ADD or whatever, we were not really consistent and always gave him ample chances to change because we felt guilty.

Don't feel badly. As long as you are not executing cruel and unusual punishment you are doing what needs to be done. Taking away a video game is certainly reasonable.

I have to say that not only should you (or we) not feel bad about giving consequences, I think it is our responsibility. I think it helps them think thru their actions and learn to weigh out consequences. My son is very destructive and I recently found his guitar in two pieces on the side of the house. He said it accidentally broke, which I know is not true. I was very sad because, altho a wal-mart kids toy, it was a wooden guitar and it was awful to see it destoyed. So I through it away and figured that was the consequence. It was hard to decide if I should have made him earn the money to buy a new one (and maybe donate it to learn the value of a dollar) or taken away other toys and explained he doesn't take good enough care. Well, I didn't do anything - it seems like I'm ALWAYS trying to figure out how to deal with him and it's exhausting. At any rate, I've decided I was too easy and should have given a consequence. He tends to not care if a toy breaks because he has other things to do!

The lying about brushing teeth and stuff like that I tend to joke off because it's just them trying to get out of something they don't want to do. They'll grow out of that naturally. Altho, I do make them go back and brush their teeth! (We've taken away sweets for the following day if they don't work with us and that seems to help too.)

hi i'm a first timer here. i have no advise but also have a 9 year old son with severe adhd. with him it seems like he will ask questions that he knows i will say "no" to just to hear me say it. sometimes i feel like the worst parent in the world because i have a temper problem and i tend to yell at him. my son never seems to be happy. he walks around with a mad look on his face all the time. we just want him to be happy and understand when we say "no" we are not trying to be mean to him. he tells us that we never listen to him. thats not true but it makes us feel really bad.

any advice!! feeling like this is our last hope

t_martin39245.9701157407my daughter does this quite often too. The only advice I can give is try to avoid saying no. Not meaning let him do it, but if the first thing he asks is "can I sty up all night", instead of saying "NO" of course you cant saty up all night. Just say, we have a lot to do tomorrow so you need to get some sleep. Or if he says "can I drink Pepsi for breakfast?", leave the "no" part out of the answer and juts say "we dont drink soft drinks with breakfast", only for a treat" Or whatever. The point being to calmly give another answer and avoid using the actula word no. If you can, ignore it. Like if he says I am eating the whole box of Twinkies. Obviously your answer would be no, but ignore it. LEt him have his one, then if he goes for more, just say to be fair to everyone in the house, one at a time. He is looking for the challenge and hating it at the same. No challenge it wont be worth it to him.

Reading through these posts had me laughing. Teeth brushing is such a hassle. My husband has a great view and so different from mine - He's a dentist and after a full day of looking into others mouths his reply when I ask him to check his son's teeth has always been -

It's okay - his teeth will rot and then I'll make him dentures!

Simple - everyone is happy - that is except me who is fuming

Oh my house has used very reward in the book, she'll just say she did it unless I literally STAND there making sure she does it. I would have to do that with every single task all day every day. Can't do that, plus at 12 she is learning ways around ALL of it. It'd be so much easier for her (and me), and so much less work for herself to just do the things instead of all the effort in getting out of it, but I am starting to realize that just has to be learned. You dont brush well, your cleaning takes longer, eventually she'll get it...................I hope!Have you thought about a reward for the teeth brushing or those other habits you find important to instill? The other stuff -I agree - don't sweat it. I know, every child is different. Mine doesn't do well with punishment. I think it is a self-esteem issue for her.

Yes I agree - I have to stand there - He'll turn the electric toothbrush on so I can hear the noise and still not brush!!

The master last night came out after 110o'clock and took his PSP and phone to play with. The silly thing is that he just got his PSP back after it has been away being fixed for 2 months. He knew not to take it!!!! My husband needed to hide it better! The problem with this is that he then doesn't remember where he put it and that creates another problem!

It's a whole new world when they get smarter than us!

If there is a minute chance that they could get away with something then it's worth the effort!!

Thank you all for your stories and insight. We went to the doctor yesterday for an annual check up. She advised we increase his medication due to his height and weight gain. Suggested that might help with controlling some of the impulsive behaviors we find so annoying. We're also afraid his lack of forthought will get him in serious trouble.

It can be really scary when we think of his future if some of this doesn't get under control. My brother, 46, was recently diagnosed with ADD. It certainly explains some of his difficulty but he refuses to continue with the treatment recommendations. My parents, in their 70's, have tried to help him as much as they can but have gotten fed up. He also has an 11 year old son who is totally out of control due to lack of appropriate parenting. I would hate to see my partner's son end up with the struggles my brother has.

I am glad to know that what we experience in "normal". Thanks for being there!