ADHD/ODD Behavior Problems

Help!  My son is 6 1.2 yrs old and when he was 4 we discovered he had some problems.  He has been to psychiatrist and physiologists, etc.  2 yrs ago they put him on Adderall (which didn't work for long) then he was put on Concerta. Well it saved our lives or HIS life at the time, cause he was able to stay in daycare and learn! However, he has a bad ANGER problem.  He is fine most of the day, but mid-afternoon (if he gets mad about ANYTHING) he will get very angry.  Result in hitting chidren, teachers, biting, clutching his fists, kicking, saying he's going to beat you up, he hates you, he wants to run away, etc.  Once he calms down, he says, MOM or whoever, I am so sorry, I was just mad, I didn't want to play that game or participate in whatever you wanted me to do.  Then he's very loving and remorseful about his actions.  He on the other hand is very very smart.  All "A's in school, he's in the 1st grade.  And his teacher said she has never experienced his anger problems during class, only his AFTER KID CARE TEACHERS do.  He's a perfectionist when it comes to his work at school and gets good grades.  Reads on a 4th grade level and gets MODERATELY ABOVE scores on FCAT's.  But what do I do about his anger?  He was kicked out of after kid care this past Friday, due to an episode of him running from the teacher, because he didn't want to play a game they were playing.  My son later said, MOM it's OK that I don't have to go to kid care, they don't teach you anyway!  I explained that I have to work and he has to go to daycare, etc.  and he is so smart and ALWAYS thinking.  This morning, he asked me, did you come up with a plan mom?  Where am I going, how are you going to work and make money?  He amazes me, how smart he is, but yet his anger gets him into sooooooo much trouble.  His pediatrician says it's not that the med's are not working, they don't need to be increased (cause he's learning) he thinks he needs to talk to someone that there is another underlying problem.  Me and my husband, don't know why or what, but don't know what to do?  Please help CENTRAL FLORIDA. 

Hello

I,m from england in Uk, your son sounds the same as mine, also aged 6years. He has had anger/odd problems for as long as I can remember. He is on concerta, but has a top up in the afternoon of ritalin 5mg as doctor was not happy to top up the concerta but realised the results of late afternoon problems where due to meds wearing off too soon. Also my school have a behavioural management programme that has worked wonders. We are also under Child and adolesent mental health (CAMHS) and they are going to assess him to help with his anger issues. I would suggest you contact your doctor again and ask about these types of services.

Take care

To the OP:  I suggest the book "The Explosive Child."

Pyroluria -- I've heard of that.  I tested as maybe having it on a questionnaire in a book on depression.  I take a special form of vitamin B6 recommended by that book:  Pyridoxal 5-phosphate (P5P).  I'm doing other natural treatments for depression too and I'm OK now;  it's hard to tell how much the P5P helps.

I agree with Kyle's Mum about essential fatty acids, except that I wouldn't cook with canola oil.  The oils high in EFA's are delicate and they turn into bad stuff when you cook them.  I cook with butter or olive oil and I try to heat them as little as possible.  I use flax oil on salads or just take a spoonful with a couple of drops of lemon juice.

In a book I read about EFA's, some people had amazing response to EFA's to treat mental problems.  A couple of people with severe anxiety got quite a bit better -- stopped being too scared to leave home and stuff like that.

Omega-3 EFA's also help against migraine headaches.

EFA means Essential Fatty Acids.  Everybody needs them.  They're an essential nutrient.  Food in the grocery store doesn't tend to have enough of them.  The EFA's are delicate -- they go rancid easily -- so the foods with them usually have to be eaten fresh.  So food manufacturers often remove the EFA's in processing, so that the food can sit on the shelf and not go bad.  And they're removed from animal feed so the animal feed can sit on the shelf, so meat and eggs from those animals have less EFA's.  Wild food tends to have more.

There are two main EFA's:  omega-3 and omega-6.  Other oils we can make in our bodies.  Omega-3 is the most delicate and the hardest to find in processed foods.  I get omega-3 in flax oil, fish and walnuts.  I also eat sunflower seeds which have omega-6 but I don't worry about it as much because there's some omega-6 in a lot of foods.  (Still maybe not the ideal amount.)

Needing EFA's is not a disease and doesn't need a cure.  It just needs the right nutrients to be supplied.  We never grow out of having to eat.

Dear BSWINKY,

Does daycare provide after school snacks?  If they do, do the foods have a high glycemic index(processed foods, white flour products,etc.)?  I have seen a well behaved child become angry in the afternoon and then regain his good behavior by giving him a healthy snack(low sugar).

Just a thought

rmh6250

I just want to comment about how to react to children who angrily hit people and then are very sorry and remorseful.  These are just my thoughts and ideas, from which people can take suggestions if they like them.  I've probably actually done many of these things myself -- or tried to -- but not all, and not all at once.

I think it would not be good to get into a pattern of not giving them consequences for their action just because they're so remorseful.  It might be OK to do this once or twice but not over and over again, because it undermines their efforts to learn not to misbehave like that if they're allowed to gain benefits from misbehaving -- such as attention from parents, or control over other children, or whatever.

Some ways to react that I think are good:

-- showing empathy to the remorseful child, but in a low-key way;  not giving them a lot of attention.  "I can see you're really regretting what you just did."

-- showing empathy for the victim.  This can be more extensive, perhaps ignoring the one who misbehaved.

-- aligning yourself with the remorseful child, as in "Maybe I can help you figure out a way to fix up this situation."  You help them overcome their remorse by helping them find out ways to atone for their action.

-- encouraging the remorseful child to apologize to the victim if they didn't already.

-- encouraging the remorseful child to empathize with the victim.  For example, the remorseful one could show a list of feelings or happy-face type emotion symbols to the victim and ask the victim which one describes how they feel about being hit.  Then the remorseful child can look at the victim and try to imagine how the victim feels.  This sort of empathy is very important, I believe, in learning not to do that sort of thing again.

-- getting the remorseful child to replay the original situation.  This is quite important as it is a way of learning how to handle such situations in future.  "OK, you wish you hadn't hit hir.  Let's pretend the situation is happening again, and you see what you could do instead."  Try to get them to take into account the feelings and desires they had at the time.

-- Letting the remorseful child see that if they hadn't hit, they could perhaps have gotten a compromise, but that since they hit, they have to give up whatever was being fought over.

-- have the remorseful child hand the toy to the other child, if a toy was being fought over, for example.

-- show regret that the remorseful child has to suffer the consequences.  "I wish you were getting a turn with that toy right now.  I really wish you hadn't hit somebody."  Rather than showing anger.  Again, this is aligning yourself with the child.

-- encourage the remorseful child to take a quiet time to calm down.

[QUOTE=lmfb16]Hi.  I have just joined and have been reading postings.  My daughter will be 6 in a couple of weeks.  We are having so many problems with her and until I read the above postings, I just didn't feel like anyone understood.  My husband and I feel so alone in this whole parenting thing, it seems as if none of our friends or family deal with such issues... boy, this is hard, hard work.  My oldest daughter is pretty much out of control.  I consider myself to be fairly strict but nothing seems to work.  I have read numerous books ranging from putting a positive twist to her personality (Raising the Spirited Child) to new approaches (Transforming the Difficult Child).  She was previously taking Rit but was recently switched to Adderal.  Not really liking adderal at this point, appears to make her super moody, just not herself, and she complains of stomach pain.  I have had a really hard time accepting the ADHD diagnosis.  Although I have tried to deny it for years, I finally forced myself to accept what is going on now that she is in school and is struggling.  Although there is soooo much I absolutely ADORE about her personality, it is with a heavy heart that i describe the frustrating things as impulsive, unfocused, demanding to the point of rude, and tempermental.  I am seeing the effects of her behavior all across the board- from academics, to social, to sibling difficulties.  ADHD is controlling our lives.  We can hardly leave our house with her in fear of some huge outburst or major difficulty.  Today, I just feel at my wits end.  Some days are harder than others, and often I find myself feeling sorry both her and me.  I would love to hear any advice, or even just feedback on any of this.  I even feel horrible at what all I just wrote above, its just getting soooo hard...  [/QUOTE]

Hi Mum,

I read your posting the other day and was crying with you.  I am doing a 6mnth parenting course (for the 2nd time) at the moment and I do have some suggestions to offer you.  I believe they will definitely help, but there really needs to be a full understanding on your part of what your child needs.  If you want to contact me I can give you the details of this course - I believe it will give you this understanding and you will also know the reasons why you are to take certain steps.  These reasons that I give now are just 3 keys which may help to improve things a little but your child has many more needs which is why I suggest this course.

1.  Impulsive - what I found changed my boy significantly was teaching him the reason why in non-conflict times.  ie.  "love is not rude, when you don't respect people they feel unappreciated.  Name some situations when respect is required and ask the child what they would do and why they would do it - use as a talking/teaching time.  There will be moral reasons why ie. respect for others and there will be practical reasons why.  Don't ASSUME your child knows the right response in given situations and if they do know and they haven't given the right response then they probably don't understand WHY.  I've found with my own boys because they are unfocused it can take quite a bit of repitition to get into their heart.  Once its there they act from those convictions by themselves without you having to stand over them all the time.  THIS IS THE AIM OF PARENTING - NOT TRYING TO CONTROL OUR CHILDREN'S BEHAVIOUR BUT INPUTTING GOOD VALUES WHICH THEY CAN DEPEND ON AND LIVE FROM ON THEIR OWN. 

For example if a teenager grew up being taught the right things to do and then as they got older decided they would do the opposite to what they had always acted out, then the child has been taught the right moral action.  Unfortunately though the "reason why" or the "moral principle" was never fully understood.  THIS IS ONE WAY OF SAVING YOUR CHILD THROUGH THE TEEN YRS BY GETTING INTO THE PRACTICE OF ALWAYS GIVING THE MORAL REASON WHY AND GETTING THEM TO REPEAT THEIR UNDERSTANDING BACK TO YOU.

Being demanding - It is a known fact that parents are the pivotal key role in a child's life.  When they don't see their parents relating to one another IN FRONT OF THEM, it can cause a low level anxiety for them.  Children who repetitively come into the parents room at night - they have a security need.  And their security need is met when they see the two most important people in their life in love IN FRONT OF THEM. (ON A REGULAR BASIS)  This anxiety over time can lead to bad behaviour and then bad behaviour can lead the parent to child centredness.  When the parent becomes child centred, the child becomes more insecure because the relationship between their parents is compromised.  This leads to attention seeking behaviour and being demanding.

What I suggest is making a time with you and your partner to spend 10-15mins a night IN FRONT of the children sitting and chatting or spending RELAXING time to gether.  This is not a jail sentence!  If you don't have a partner then I suggest at least having a peaceful relationship with their father and maybe keeping his photo in view of the child whilst you sit down on the couch and have some ME time.  If you are a Christian with no partner, get the bible out and make this "time with God" time.  The child may try to get your attention but explain to them this time comes first and they are to leave you be.  They will soon get the idea that they are not the centre of your world and have no prefernece for demand.  Their security level should increase as well.  

I have found in my own case that we accidentally became child centred because of our child's behaviour - its easy to do but child centred parenting only leads the child to be insensitive to others and thus demanding on you and others.  Give it a go and keep doing it - over time (maybe a week to begin with) you should see a bit of change coming through.

If you yell - DON'T YELL!  The only thing yelling ever did for my son was make him believe his Mummy didn't care or love him!  All your hard work and putting values into your child will go out the door because they will disrespect you.  They will only respect you as much as they can see you respecting them.  A lot of the time kids ignore the fact that they have done something wrong but the fact that we yelled at them has clouded their thinking and made them forget what they were doing.  I think patience will come when you realise that possibly your child doesn't understand the moral reason why.  Sometimes we don't either because we were never taught.  All our value systems of loving each other can be found in the bible but if you can't find them do a bit of heart searching or ask a practising Christian to help you find them in the Word. 

Help!  My son is 6 1.2 yrs old and when he was 4 we discovered he had some problems.  He has been to psychiatrist and physiologists, etc.  2 yrs ago they put him on Adderall (which didn't work for long) then he was put on Concerta. Well it saved our lives or HIS life at the time, cause he was able to stay in daycare and learn! However, he has a bad ANGER problem.  He is fine most of the day, but mid-afternoon (if he gets mad about ANYTHING) he will get very angry.  Result in hitting chidren, teachers, biting, clutching his fists, kicking, saying he's going to beat you up, he hates you, he wants to run away, etc.  Once he calms down, he says, MOM or whoever, I am so sorry, I was just mad, I didn't want to play that game or participate in whatever you wanted me to do.  Then he's very loving and remorseful about his actions.  He on the other hand is very very smart.  All "A's in school, he's in the 1st grade.  And his teacher said she has never experienced his anger problems during class, only his AFTER KID CARE TEACHERS do.  He's a perfectionist when it comes to his work at school and gets good grades.  Reads on a 4th grade level and gets MODERATELY ABOVE scores on FCAT's.  But what do I do about his anger?  He was kicked out of after kid care this past Friday, due to an episode of him running from the teacher, because he didn't want to play a game they were playing.  My son later said, MOM it's OK that I don't have to go to kid care, they don't teach you anyway!  I explained that I have to work and he has to go to daycare, etc.  and he is so smart and ALWAYS thinking.  This morning, he asked me, did you come up with a plan mom?  Where am I going, how are you going to work and make money?  He amazes me, how smart he is, but yet his anger gets him into sooooooo much trouble.  His pediatrician says it's not that the med's are not working, they don't need to be increased (cause he's learning) he thinks he needs to talk to someone that there is another underlying problem.  Me and my husband, don't know why or what, but don't know what to do?  Please help CENTRAL FLORIDA. 

hi, I just found this site today and I'm so emotional reading these stories of families going thru the same types of things I've been experiencing for the last 3 years.  You're story rings true to my son as far as the anger issues.  My son is 6 years old and has a real problem controlling his anger.  He also loses control of himself emotionally and says the same things your boy says and then when he gets back in control, he is sorry and is extremely loving.  He can be so crazy when angry that he lashes out at people, especially his 9 yr. old brother.  They fight constantly.  My little one has ADHD and I'm not treating him with meds. not yet at least.  I need to learn more and pray more.  I think that holding your son accountable for being thrown out of daycare is important.  He sounds so sweet but when overwhelmed or at his limit, he cannot control himself.(just like my boy)  I tell my son that if he misbehaves or freaks out at school or after school care, he IMMEDIATLY has to go to his room when we get home and stay on his bed doing NOTHING for an extended period.(to make a big impression)  A good 30 minutes.  The daycare shouldn't make him play if he doesn't want to, clear that up with them.  Have these people make a weekly chart for him, each day he should get a star for having good behavior and following the rules.  If he doesn't get a star, tell him how sorry you are that he didn't make the right choice by following the rules and he has to go to his room.  Be consistant EVERY SINGLE DAY with this.  Soon, he think I don't want to sit in that damn room again today!! or at least we hope.  I've done this and my son has had significant improvement, he'd much rather be downstairs with us or outside or watching tv.  I put the choice in his hands, follow the rules and behave or take the punishment.  IT'll sink in.  I wish you the best, if you think this might work for you-it might not but it did help my situation.  of course we're not cured!!  everyday  this is so difficult for me, my son just makes day to day life difficult alot of the time.  I'm also a single parent.  I don't know if I want to be giving him drugs that affect his brain and whatnot, do you have any thoughts on that?

Kathy

Try adding essential fatty acids to his diet.  He sounds so much like Kyle when he was younger, and after only two weeks on Efalex his behavior problems stopped.  Symptoms of an EFA deficiency are dry itchy skin, eczema, psoriasis, excessive thirst, dyslexia, dyspraxia, vision problems at an early age, and extreme behavior problems.  Kyle has all but the psoriasis and dyspraxia.  Adding essential fatty acids is not a cure because you have to keep taking the EFAs - maybe forever.  The key seems to be getting at least 480 mg DHA per day, but you can't just take DHA; you have to take the correct balance of Omega-3 and Omega-6 fatty acids in order for the DHA to be absorbed properly. Try reading "The LCP Solution" by Jacqueline Stordy PhD and Malcolm Nicholl.  "The Omega 3 Connection" is also a good book.  It can take up to 3 months to notice an improvement so be patient.

Try eliminating all preprocessed foods and cook from scratch.  Nothing with dyes and corn syrup; read labels like a hawk. Limit junk food, soda, and juices, and when you do use juice make sure it is 100% fruit juice with no dyes or corn syrup added. Whatever he craves constantly, eliminate it at least two weeks to see if you notice improvement (for Kyle it was dairy products).  Limit trans fats (fried foods and fast foods), and use only canola oil or olive oil for cooking.  Try not to feed the same food in a  4-day period to limit the buildup of histamine in the body if there is a negative reaction; this can cause behavior problems. Make sure he gets lots of fiber in his diet (raw veggies and fruits) and drinks lots of water.  Tap water can have contaminants so let tap water sit in a container a couple of days to let the chemicals evaporate, or rotate bottled water.

Vitamin deficiencies can also cause behavior problems.  Scientific tests have shown that the majority of kids with ADHD/behavior problems that have been tested have vitamin deficiencies.  The most common deficiencies are calcium, zinc, magnesium, and B-complex.  Kyle takes 600 mg calcium + D, 25 mg zinc, 400 mg magnesium, and 50 mg B-complex per day.  You can't just give a multi vitamin with the minimum RDA because that is not enough, even though adding a good multi will not hurt.  Just make sure any vitamins are dye, preservative, dairy, yeast, and sugar free.  Try reading "Vitamins & Minerals - An Illustrated Guide" by Karen Sullivan.

This may sound complicated and hard, but it is really not - especially when you get improvement in behavior.  I work a lot of hours each week and I cook from scratch (granted they are simple meals during the week). 

Hi all,

I have had great success with ODD and ADHD.  I have two sons with ADHD aged 6 and 8.  My six year old was particularly bad having violent tempers, putting holes in walls, throwing himself around in fits of anger and screaming.  This later behaviour I will call ODD.  Simply because it was 24hrs a day.  We came to a stage where we could no longer even speak to our son and I was ready to give him away.  It was breaking my heart.

I had been told by doctors that ODD can't be controlled by medication so I finally came to a realisation it was a spiritual problem.  (because it wasn't physical)  By that I mean that the child can view the negativity (or what he regards as negative) as the world hating him and/or his teachers.  He then forms an attitude towards them and because he plays this attitude out habitually it can extend to all those aroundor to particular people.  Because his nature is highly exploisive, it sets off this side of him and can make things unbearable.

Ask your sons how they feel about certain people and how they feel about you.  With Oliver we found we had to start a whole new relationship again.  The way he came out of these tantrums was through prayer firstly as we knew by sinning in his attitudes it was causing long term emotional and spiritual problems. 
So friends of ours trained in this type of deliverance prayer came and spoke to us and prayed.  The next morning I had a new son.  His whole personality had changed - I knew I had one less visitor in my home!

Next we did a course called Growing Kids Gods Way - 6mnth intensive - about getting to the heart of your child.  Within 2-3mnths he was 50% better in all aspects of behaviour and by the end of the course 70%.

We now have a really close relationship with each other.  He is still impulsive but we have repeated over and over again giving him the reasons why he can't do things and also the moral reason why.  It has been a yr since we did the course and it is very rare now that he is impulsive in a bad way.  Any tantrums he has now are just the folding of the arms and a pout.

I have decided to homeschool my boys because last yr we found there was no help for them in the school system in Australia.  They have learning difficulties because of ADHD and also social skills deficits.  At home we have concentrated on giving them visual curriculum and are doing social skills as a subject.  They are coming along great guns and excelling more than what they were at school.  Not only that but I am not hassled by teachers who don't understand my children.  Makes life very peaceful.  And my boys don't have self esteem issues.

My boys are not on medication although I'm sure a few vitamins and minerals wouldn't hurt.  Geoffrey Freed's book "Right brained children in a left brained world - Unlocking the potential of your ADD child"  helped me to again take all the negative things about my kids and ignore them yet dealing with them.  But helped me to concentrate on their strengths.  These kids are gifted.

If you have a desire to improve your relationship with your child contact me by email.  I can help with getting you to a course and also explain some key issues that can help.  lhersee@hotmail.com

Kin d regards, Lisa 

Hi Julie,

I'm not sure what EFA is but my son had dry itchy skin on his cheeks which looked like little pimples.  After I put him on a zinc supplement his cheeks cleared up.

I was also told by a naturopath that my son needed to drink more than the average child.  So keep the fluids up, specially if he is active.  If you would like to try the natural alternative first - speak to a naturopath who does hair analysis tests and that will reveal the mineral content in his body and see what he is lacking.  The lack of certain minerals in the body affects the body in certain ways.

I think this all helps the health of your child but you may also need to implement behaviour strategies.  I highly recommend Growing Kid's God's Way as it really gets to the heart of your child.  As posted beforehand, I've seen an overall 70% difference in my child from this course alone.

Kind regards

Lisa

Hi Ibrad,

Do you get to spend much time with  your sons? Do you by any chance spend any more time with one than the other? Mine are 11 and 3, and let me tell you, if I spend any more "quality time" with one over the other, I can tell! (Though I assure you, it's never intentional!) If I'm spending too much time with my youngest, my oldest will kind of "withdraw", and not appear out of his room much, and consequently start getting in trouble at school for "class clown" kind of actions, whereas my youngest will literally start crying and following me around wanting a hug every  seconds until I sit and spend some time with him, usually rocking him in his chair. I don't know if this will help you, it took me some time to figure out, as I just assumed the 11 year old didn't need as much of my focus as the 3 year old, however, I was forgetting the social age factor with kids with adhd, and that's that sometimes they can be (mentally) as much as 3 years younger than their actual age......good luck to you, keep us posted, and I'll be sure to pray for you! (Can't hurt, might even help!)

Thanks for the advice.  My son saw a psychologist for his ADHD/ODD diagnosis and I am working on getting him back into see her for therapy. I have heard that a lot of doctors and psychologists prescribe "mood stabilizers" and "anti-depressant" medications?  Are they safe for 8 yr old children?  Does anyone have any experience with them?  Also, does anyone know where I can get kid-friendly information on ADHD/ODD?  Although we've done our best to explain everything to him, I think is scared and a little confused about all of this and what it means to him.  He told his teacher today that he knew there was something wrong with him, but he didn't know how to fix it.