How would you deal with this ... | ADHD Information
Hi BPQW,Unfortunately, he doesn't go from one activity to the other. I wish he would, but the transition is just too hard. The problem is ... it doesn't matter WHAT he does or doesn't have planned, he badgers me about something else. Often it's about having someone come over, which I actually like because it keeps him happy and busy, but sometimes the other parent says "no" or I can't do it that day. I am talking EVERY day he wants something very specific. I don't think that any parent can have another kid over (or worse yet, buy a specific toy) every day. Sometimes, it's OK and then we have someone over -- although I don't give in on the toy thing. I think that would be a really bad precedent. I almost think that it's worse to sometimes do it, because he gets partially reinforced for the behavior and never stops it. Partial reinforcement is really the worst way to extinguish a behavior. Learned that in school but mostly from experience .
Even if he knows that someone is coming over, he picks something else to obsess about and he just can't stop. We don't overplan his schedule by any means because he just can't handle it. When I see how many sports and activities other kids are in, I am simply amazed. Right now we do one extra thing/week because the transition is so hard, but that one thing is important to the family and I put up with the pain and agony. I hope it improves as he gets older.
I do think we're finally on to something, though. We started the marble system, and it is more motivating for him than our old rewards system. I told him he gets three marbles if he comes out of school and says, "Hi mom!" and nothing else -- and it worked. I was very excited. We only used it once so far, but we made it home to a snack and a boost in medication and a good mood. Whew. If we can make it a habit, we're home free. I am hoping that the Metadate works longer and helps with transitions, though. I am finally seeing the light that he needs his meds to really work both during and after school. It's taken me a while to get to that point.
Joy
Justmeandhim...
Keep us posted on how the Vyvanase is working!!!
Do you have another thread anywhere regarding his med?My son is almost 8 and in second grade. He has been on various meds in the Ritalin group for 2 1/2 years and done well at school. He is at grade level, which I am happy about because as a young child, he was too hyperactive to ever do anything that normal kids do (puzzles, building blocks, drawing, talking in full sentences, etc.). At this point, being average is great. He also has friends and seems pretty happy in school.
The problem comes when school lets out for the day. Whenever I pick him up, he starts demanding something that he knows he can't have. Sometimes he wants a friend to come home (sometimes it's OK, but other times we or they have other plans). Today he wanted his Nintendo when he got home, which he knows is off-limits this week until Friday. He obsesses and obsesses and obsesses and gets angrier and angrier. I can't make him stop or switch topics or go play. He will grab my arm and get really angry if I try to start walking home. Pre-planning the afternoon doesn't stop this behavior because he'll just find something else to demand that wasn't part of the plan. Ignoring him doesn't work because he will go on and on and on until he just runs out of steam. It makes me hate picking him up at school and it's embarrassing.
We walk, so I can't just wait in the car for him to come over. If the weather's nice, he can play on the playground with the other kids, but that doesn't usually interest him. He will stand on the playground and obsess about whatever it is he's decided he wants to do that day.
Once we get home, he is usually a crab for an hour or so and then he evens out again (i.e. gets really hyper, but not as cranky). He is currently on the Daytrana patch, and I know that the meds are gone by the end of the school day. Does he keep himself together during school and then fall apart when he sees me or am I doing something to encourage this behavior?
When he starts demanding and badgering at home, I send him to his room until he's done with it. I will admit that when he was really little (pre-diagnosis), I gave into him too much because I was afraid of his massive tantrums. So I know that this behavior has to do with me, but I feel powerless to stop it right there in front of the whole world.
He obsesses about other things, too, but it's the obsessing that turns into badgering that drives me nuts.
I have considered picking him up 5-10 minutes before school is out and getting him away from the stimulation or asking his teacher to help him think of a good transition as he gets out of school. Any other suggestions would be appreciated. I'm willing to modify my behavior as well.
Is it rebound maybe? It sounds like ti could be, especially if it is when the meds wear off.
This reminds of my son at about that age. It was after school, around 4pm and he would get set off about something (anything) and it would lead to a full out fit. Sometime he would rant for an hour to get what he wanted. I didn't give in and stood my ground. I don't think it would have mattered. It was like he was looking for an argument. This behavior lasted for several months. The only thing that I could link to it was - 1. meds wearing off and the other thing that I thought was maybe a trigger was low blood sugar. Try giving him a snack with protein, like pb & jelly. Try it before he gets started with the mood if you can. Head off the behavior before it gets started. Hope this helps.
I hear you about standing your ground. It is so frustrating because sometimes it just doesn't matter!!! I feel like I've been standing my ground so long I have become a tree!! I'm so glad that there are people out there who understand that. Most parents just look at you like you have a third eye, but they also don't know what the 30-minute screaming, wigging-out, biting, hitting tantrum was like in a two-year-old who couldn't speak yet. They don't realize that that's the kid you started with and now you're down to just obsessive badgering (and other stuff when unmedicated). I think you're right -- he's just looking to argue with me for 20 minutes after school lets out -- that he's letting out steam (as well as dealing with the meds leaving his system).
I will read whatever suggestions other people have, too, but I think I will ask his teacher for her ideas for this transition time and either try to get a snack in him or pick him up early. This will be my 4th school year of being badgered to death (he had a year of all-day pre-kindergarten at this school, too).
Thanks,
Joy
I get what you are feeling as my 9 year old son does the same thing! He is wonderful with everyone else and the minute he sees me he ALWAYS picks a fight. Whether asking for something he knows he can't have or worrying over homework he doesn't want to do, or just plain being nasty, He fights with me. I feel my son is still medicated though as he is good at concentration and other behaiviors through about 4:30-5:00 pm. I think this is something else. My doc did tell me to get his blood sugar up after school right away and it does seem to help some. The Daytrana should be lasting till you get home no? what time do you put it on? and what is his behavior like around other people? I would discuss this with my pschiatrist and see what he says. I am going to do just that.Good Luck to you!It is the Ritlian. My sister had to take her son off, because he told her He didn't
like the way it made him feel. That he felt angry and didn't know why.
sometimes depressed. I would take your son to his doctor.
It does sound like you are seeing some rebound. You may also be seeing a kid who is getting some relief with the meds but not at quite a high enough dose for better symptom relief; so dealing with partial frustration all day in a place he has to 'keep it together' can be stressfull. He then gets around someone safe (who loves him no matter what) and lets go. We had this experience with my youngest when she was on a sub-optimal med dose. It took a while but her frustration grew each day and she became more and more difficult when my husband picked her up from school. When we upped the dose, things colmed down in a few weeks. I was thinking the dose was a little low if you do not see a full day's efficacy on Daytrana.
Unfortunately, it could also be anxiety from the medication. You and the doc will need to sort out all of this to make an adjustment.
And you are right about other parents the looks we get for they truly do not understand. I was told last year I need to control my child better by a hall monitor. My girl wanted a toy in the car and I told her no not in school one morning so she had a screaming tantrum in front of school and i had to drag her to the door when I went to talk to her and reason she took off on me and bolted towards my car by the street and the monitor and I ran for her same time. She grabbed my girl and said the above and left me there crying. You guys are great. I'm glad that I'm not the only one. We are switching him to Metadate this weekend, and I hope that it lasts a little longer. He will also have a full developmental eval (many hours long) soon, so I am hoping they can help with the meds. His current child psych (ADHD specialist) just doesn't take the time for a full work-up and we've tried a number of medications. She just put him on Strattera which sent him into a rage, so that only lasted 4 days (I wrote about it on the meds board). The Ritalin-family meds really help him, when the dose is enough, and they backfire when the dose is too high. It's been a balancing act.Anyway, I think that I will try picking him up 5-10 minutes before school lets out. That way if he melts down, at least we can deal with it in private. Then I'll wait and see how the eval goes.
Joy
[QUOTE=redhairlady]It is the Ritlian. My sister had to take her son off, because he told her He didn't
like the way it made him feel. That he felt angry and didn't know why.
sometimes depressed. I would take your son to his doctor.
[/QUOTE]
It may not be the Ritalin, not everyone has the same experiences on all meds.
we WERE HAVING SIMILIAR ISSUES WITH MY 7 YEAR OLD DS. He was on Focalin XR 30 MG (which was only lasting 3-4 hours) twice a day and ritialin at night for activities... We just switched over to vyvanase 50mg... and I cannot believe he is the same kid... it has been 10 days of ....I cant even find the words to describe it.. He takes his pill at 6am and it seems like he never comes off of it.. at 830 when it is time for bed he is still calm and of course he complains about going to be (what 7 yo doesn't) but there is NO fighting with him... He is falling asleep easier, and he has a good appetite all day, he is funny again like before he started medication (almost 2 years ago) to even make things better..... he used to be AWFUL in the mornings... I felt like all I did was yell at and correct him... He gets up the first time I wake him up... eats... DRESSES HIMSELF... watches TV and turns it off willingly when it is time to go... I am ejoying him for the first time in a long time.... [QUOTE=omgiamgoingnuts]i think you have to remember that you are the parent. i highly doubt they are going to let your son eat 30 min. before leaving school. i also believe that these kids must have structure.
I'm surprised to read this advice on a forum for parents of ADHD children. I think that this is the type of thing we hear in the years before our kids are finally diagnosed and treated and begin to act normally.
As everyone else correctly said, the Daytrana has definitely worn off by 4 p.m. We have to put it on by 7 so that we see some effect by 10, which is already too late. I think that he is just holding himself together for that last bit of school and loses it when he sees me. That's why we're going to try Metadate next -- to see if it lasts longer without the side effects of a higher dose. And yes, I do believe that his teacher would let him have a snack sometime in the afternoon if it's necessary. I don't know where you live, but we have had only open-minded and caring teachers so far.
Of course these kids need structure. I think that we've all learned that. All children do. However, without the medication, all of the structure in the world can't compel a child with great hyperactivity and impulsivity and obsessiveness to behave acceptably for one hour, much less for 16 hours straight.
An old saying i learned really helped me with my ds and his arguing and fight picking. One person can't argue with themselves. in other words i totally let my ds know that i have no inttention of listening to him be ugly and argue. if that's what he wants to do then let me know when you're done. period. no exceptions. i let him know when he's done we can talk about what's making him so angry. if he so much as smarts off during this talk then we have a time out to cool off and then return to our conversation. i think you have to remember that you are the parent. i highly doubt they are going to let your son eat 30 min. before leaving school. i also believe that these kids must have structure. it used to be that whenever we did anything out of our normal routine our ds would go nuts. just wired up. now if he knows before he gets out of school what's going to go on, he's fine with it. good luck
Joy2, Luckily, I have always found my kids teachers to be accommodating--sometimes going above and beyond to help my ADHD/ADD kids.Good Luck with Metadate--my 8 yr old just started Metadate CD 10mg and is tolerating the drug well.Joy2, You have gotten good advice above. My first thought was rebound. My dd was on Adderal at the age of 9 and she had a very fast metabolism. By 3pm, she was a mess and we had to add a short acting med which I gave her the minute she got in the car after school. She was also, in addition to her ADHD, dx with OCD and depression, anxiety and grapho-motor dysfunction. School was stressful for her and she maintained a straight A average. She melted down after she made it through the school day--just couldn't hold it together longer that that!
I think the idea of a late school day snack is a great one too! We underestimate the effects of low blood sugar--it can make a non-ADHD kid cranky too!
Good Luck dear. jacksgirl39345.3643171296[QUOTE=Joy2] [QUOTE=omgiamgoingnuts]
i think you have to remember that you are the parent. i highly doubt they are going to let your son eat 30 min. before leaving school. i also believe that these kids must have structure.
[/QUOTE]
I'm surprised to read this advice on a forum for parents of ADHD children. I think that this is the type of thing we hear in the years before our kids are finally diagnosed and treated and begin to act normally.
As everyone else correctly said, the Daytrana has definitely worn off by 4 p.m. We have to put it on by 7 so that we see some effect by 10, which is already too late. I think that he is just holding himself together for that last bit of school and loses it when he sees me. That's why we're going to try Metadate next -- to see if it lasts longer without the side effects of a higher dose. And yes, I do believe that his teacher would let him have a snack sometime in the afternoon if it's necessary. I don't know where you live, but we have had only open-minded and caring teachers so far.
Of course these kids need structure. I think that we've all learned that. All children do. However, without the medication, all of the structure in the world can't compel a child with great hyperactivity and impulsivity and obsessiveness to behave acceptably for one hour, much less for 16 hours straight.
[/QUOTE]
sorry if i offended you but i was only being honest.
Joy2, I tend to see things in a "what's the big deal?" kind of way, so my advice may not suit you. My first thought after reading your first post was, why can't he choose his after school activity? He has been sitting in school for about seven hours. I know that when I was working, if I came home to a lot of "no you may not's" and not feeling like I got to choose what I wanted, I'd be ticked off, too. Unfortunately, our kids tend to lead lives of punishment. Every single moment of their lives seems to hinge on a consequence. Why not give him a certificate for 30 or 45 minutes' worth of free choice every day, just for being him, based only on TODAY, and then really make it FREE choice? Let him blow off some stream however he chooses. Once he realizes that he gets some power in the relationship that doesn't come from misbehavior, he will actually be glad to see you at the end of the day, instead of feeling, I think, like he's going from one restrictive environment to another.
(Of course there will be those who think I mean to let him run wild, painting the neighbor's cat or jumping from the roof with an umbrella. Certainly not. Just choosing a movie or outside play or even... *GASP*... video games.)
Also, if you have medical support (note from doctor) the school certainly WILL let him have a snack thirty minutes before the end of the day. They do it for diabetic children all the time.