Son refuses help - so sad | ADHD Information
< =text/>_popupControl(); And the Dr. said my son can control his ODD behavior so he is choosing to be bad.
Hmmmm....it seems to me that saying a child can control his ODD is like saying that a child can control his ADHD, which, in effect, is saying that neither disorder actually exists and are just choices. We all know that NOT to be true. This Dr's attitude would disturb me just as much as my son's behavior, perhaps more because he's supposed to be treating the child and be a professional. I've worked with children with ODD and to think that they choose to be the object of frustration, ridicule, and anger is ridiculous. It would seem to me that the very nature of ODD is why he refuses help, he is OPPOSITIONAL. I would find a new professional and choose a therapist carefully.
[QUOTE=rswf]Well, my son is choosing to fail in life and the psychiatrist said that we have to lower our expectations. This was said in front of my son.
I have full confidence in the Dr. who is trying to get my son to tell us why he chooses to fail. My son is denying the ADD innatentive.
I don't understand why my son would choose to feel miserable and get all F's in school and get everyone upset when there is help for him?
I'm not sure "choice" is the word I'd use. I'd simply say, "this is the pattern".
The ODD behaviour is getting out of control. The Dr. said to ignore the verbal abuse and not engage in any fights but if he gets violent to call the police.
I would have to agree with that. I know no parent wants to call the cops on their kid but he needs to understand that violence isn't just something the parents don't like--it is dangerous, illegal and against the social order. It comes with serious social consequences.
I'm at the end of my rope. I have even had feelings that I don't want him to live at home anymore - short lived feelings. I am doing everything I can do keep it together.
That's a normal feeling. It's hard to live with constant disruption and chaos.
Tell me why a kid chooses to be failure when he so many great things going for him? Tell me? I don't understand, I really don't. And the Dr. said my son can control his ODD behavior so he is choosing to be bad.
The Dr. may not be seeing ODD--he may be seeing something else. Ask when your son is NOT around what exactly he believes the basic problem to be.
The Dr. has tried to tell my son that ADD is just a brain dissorder - maybe that is a poor choice of words, but we have tried to tell him it's no big deal either.
Well and if the child won't take the meds--where does that leave everyone else who has to deal with this? Sounds the like Dr. is trying to get the kid to understand that no meds=crappy behaviour.
Catch 22 - meds would help but my son won't take them. Maybe it's time for meds for the parents.
My prescription is for you and hubby to go somewhere nice for a day or two and leave the kid elsewhere. And TELL the kid that you and dad are going to have a nice day. Give yourself a break.
Just venting.
[/QUOTE]I know exactly how you feel as my son is refusing his meds(at 9) and choosing to do poorly. He tries hard at school but cannot live up to his potential without the meds. I too ponder on why he would choose to fail when there is something out there that can help. My son took meds for 2 weeks and said he did better but is in denial about the ADHD he says "what is ADHD?" like no one has ever told him NOT! He won't own the disorder. It is sad, hard and I feel for you. [QUOTE=BPQW]< =text/>_popupControl(); And the Dr. said my son can control his ODD behavior so he is choosing to be bad.
Hmmmm....it seems to me that saying a child can control his ODD is like saying that a child can control his ADHD, which, in effect, is saying that neither disorder actually exists and are just choices. We all know that NOT to be true. This Dr's attitude would disturb me just as much as my son's behavior, perhaps more because he's supposed to be treating the child and be a professional. I've worked with children with ODD and to think that they choose to be the object of frustration, ridicule, and anger is ridiculous. It would seem to me that the very nature of ODD is why he refuses help, he is OPPOSITIONAL. I would find a new professional and choose a therapist carefully.
[/QUOTE]BPWQ the struggle here has been that the child did BETTER on meds but refuses to take them. Yet there has been no clarity from the child stating WHY he won't take them. No side-effect complaints. Nothing. I suspect he doesn't want to feel "weird" or "different"--and this doctor is pointing out that he's going to be a lot worse off if he doesn't accept the fact that his behaviour is deteriorating without them.
I'm not sure that was clear in this particular post but I've been following rswf's posts for some time.
I wouldn't give up on this Dr. just yet. He is making it clear to the child, the consequences if this child continues to disrupt everyone's life and ruin his own life by refusing to make any effort.
Mentally ill or not--there are societal consequences to violent, obnoxious behaviour, just as you've pointed out. At some point, the child MUST fact those consequences and if medication has worked and the child refuses to take it--what are you going to do? Shove it down his throat? Been there, done that [on the receiving end]--it doesn't work and creates more opposition and trauma.
It sounds to me like this dr is setting the kid up to oppose "losing" and take away the benefits of the disruption this child is causing in the family. A dicey tactic at best, but sometimes necessary.
If nothing improves in the next year--then I would suggest changing psychs. At this point--I'd watch the play and see if he sees something we do not.
Well, my son is choosing to fail in life and the psychiatrist said that we have to lower our expectations. This was said in front of my son.
I have full confidence in the Dr. who is trying to get my son to tell us why he chooses to fail. My son is denying the ADD innatentive.
I don't understand why my son would choose to feel miserable and get all F's in school and get everyone upset when there is help for him?
The ODD behaviour is getting out of control. The Dr. said to ignore the verbal abuse and not engage in any fights but if he gets violent to call the police.
I'm at the end of my rope. I have even had feelings that I don't want him to live at home anymore - short lived feelings. I am doing everything I can do keep it together.
Tell me why a kid chooses to be failure when he so many great things going for him? Tell me? I don't understand, I really don't. And the Dr. said my son can control his ODD behavior so he is choosing to be bad.
The Dr. has tried to tell my son that ADD is just a brain dissorder - maybe that is a poor choice of words, but we have tried to tell him it's no big deal either.
Catch 22 - meds would help but my son won't take them. Maybe it's time for meds for the parents.
Just venting.
rswf39399.3617708333He has completely shut down and I agree with evryoung, he is scared. Everyone seems to agree the same thing, it's about control. Let him have it. I kind of like the idea of filling a prescription for stimulants and leaving one in a bottle and just letting him know it is there if he makes that decision, I also think after that you should drop it, at least for now.
BTW, that yoga for stress relief is one the two DVD's I just ordered, so am glad it's coming recommended! The other is yoga for beginners since I did the one I have last week and only got through half and couldnt lift my arms the next day . I'm a jogger by nature and spin classes, this a new world for me.............this calm stuff I eman .
elizam - I'm glad your son is doing better in highschool. It's so nice to hear positive things. It has to be hard for him to accept that he needs the meds to do well. It's like a diabetic refusing the insulin thinking only diet will do the trick.
You are right - we can't force the issue. I just hope my son makes it to highschool this year. I'll check out that book, sounds interesting. I'm not talking about ADD or executive functioning dissorder or anything starting now. The Dr. is even downplaying it. As Metisrebel's story pointed out, I think my son needs to think he is anything else but ADD. I made a mistake last week. My son was asking if he has Aspergers syndrome. I said no. He asked if he had ADD and I answered Yes. He got upset and went into a rage and anxiety attack. We all know he has it, his psychiatrist knows he has it and whether he admits it or not, my son has to come to the realization on his own.
I just hope me and my husband can survive while he is discovering this since I think it will be a long time coming.
Metisrebel - when my son has said things like" I failed on purpose", my husband comes back with "what are you trying to prove." My son never can answer.
I don't know how much more attention my son wants. He's an only child. He knows I love him unconditionally - I have told him that I will always love him, even when I don't like his behavior. He is good at pushing my buttons but I'm aware of it now and I'm not letting him as much.
The funny thing is, the more he abuses me and I phsycially remove myself from where he is, he follows me.
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Mine can be a lot like this and he is 14. The ADHD behavior got a lot worse with middle school and puberty. We had homeschooled him from 2-6th and he at least was in a more wholesome environment. Nothing against PS in general, but there were aspects of it for us that were just toxic for our ds.
IN our case, we had decent kid who wanted to do well and thought that he could. When he ran into trouble with remembering, organizing, etc. he quickly learned taht most of the adults in his life would respond with anger and criticism. He would be belittled by both teachers and students. I wanted PS to work out for him, but the sad reality was, he was being hurt every day emotionally.
Thankfully, high school is better for him. He went thru a couple of periods of med refusal, but he likes how much nicer people treat him when he is on them and acting calmer/more focused. OTOH, he will admit to me that is hurts him taht he can ONLY DO WELL ON MEDS. He wants it to be him. He feels that no one knows or likes the REAL him (the unmedicated him). I feel his pain. That's got to suck, kwim? Even if the real you is annoying sometimes........it's who you ARE, your very essence.
The only place I have seen this addressed is in Ed Hallowell's book, Delivered From Distraction. I highly recommend this book! I also heard him speak and was able to ask him personaly what a mom is to do in this situation. He said you can't force the issue.
The counselor we were seeing tried to shame ds into taking meds, though. He acted rather cold about it and ds refused to go again after he said "you won't eveer be able to do it without meds." Funny, though, because ds was so unhappy with himself and he did respect our ped, he said he wanted to go to him for the evaluation and possible meds.
That's what we did and now he is on Vyvanse. He's lost some weight and had some stomach aches, but he does not want to go off it. Dr. isn't saying that he should yet, so we are trying to help him eat more and better quality foods.
I do think that dses tend to push us and then see if we will still love them. ANd sometimes I do realize that my ds truly can't seem to help himself act "right." Other times he seems to play the part, so to speak, when he realizes how annoyed I am with him. He will "act ADD" the more I get annoyed with him.
Have you tried group therapy for boys with ADHD? Are there any ADHD summer camps or spring break? Does your childrens' hospital have social skills classes? Those are kind of like group therapy. You are dealing with hormones also. Maybe he needs to be with other boys like himself. Have you thought about going to the doctor alone for awhile, and leaving him out of it entirely? I'm guessing that he's feeling judged and is angry. What's up with dad? Does he need dad time?Let us know what happens. I will be thinking of you Thursday!!
Joy2
[QUOTE=Joy2]I don't know your son, but my guess is that his refusal to take meds is a control thing, as is his decision to become really difficult. He knows it drives you insane and he is trying to control his environment.
Very astute statement! I agree--and I also suspect he doesn't want to feel geeky.
Is he seeing the psych without you? He should, so that he feels he can speak openly. A good therapist would hopefully be able to draw him out eventually and figure out what is going on.
Now he's in a pattern of refusing his meds, and he has dug his heals in. He isn't going to start taking them because that would be "losing" his battle with you. He will have to decide to take them on his own, and he will only do that if you don't mention the meds again -- ever. It will have to be "his" idea. Maybe put them somewhere where he has access to them and you can check their use without his knowledge.
I wouldn't do that. That's a dangerous road for a child struggling with impulse control because if he decides "I'm wanna die RIGHT NOW!" and takes them all--even if he changes his mind later, later is too late. Prevention here, prevention.
I am saying this because I remember being at that same place with my own mom, although I didn't have ADHD. I would do whatever I could to stick it to her at that age, even if I knew that it was harmful to myself or even downright stupid.
I have read your other posts, too, and if I were in your shoes, I would figure out the fewest number of rules that will keep your family and him safe right now. Ask him, in a calm moment, what rules he would like to see in the family. Write them down and hang them on the fridge. Make sure it's not too many (like 3-4). Get his input as far as reward and punishment so that he gets some control that way. Let the rest slide for a while. I know that this would be HARD, but I get the feeling that you need to get out of battle mode first. I didn't make this up -- I learned it from a psychologist whose own son has ADHD: Few rules with child's input, write them down, post them, stick to them, use a lot of rewards, let the rest go.
Also sensible advice
He is almost an adult. He will need to learn responsibility for his choices because he will be fully responsible for them in only 4 years. Hopefully his brain will be further developed by then and he will make better choices, but I would start letting him feel the consequences of his choices (not taking meds, getting f's). The more upset you get, the more he will dig in and purposefully not change his mind about the meds or not do better in school. Don't go in for his tirades. My mom would have been far better off years ago if she had just said (nicely, not sarcastically), "That's nice, honey," or "I can't wait to talk to you when the real you has come back" instead of continuing the argument.
Just some ideas. Hope you don't think I'm lecturing. I know how it feels when you are really down about your kid and someone thinks they know what to do but they aren't in your shoes.
Actually Joy--I thought most of that was pretty good advice for ANY parent
Joy2
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Spamala - take a deep breath. You are going to be okay. Your son is only 9 and he is getting help. Okay - he's like my son and being defiant but you are starting the process early. I'm sure by the time he's a teen he will be better. Remember, I have been searching for competent help since 4th grade and just now found someone. Do not give up. I wish I had found someone when my son was 9. No kid wants to admit they have a problem. ADD has a stigma attached to it. I would keep working with your therapist and maybe take the word ADD out of the picture for a while. If your son feels better and succeeds on medications, focus on that. Remember, my son doesn't even had a past medication record to compare with because he has never started meds yet. AND - if you are not happy with your current Dr. search for a new one. Believe me, I know how hard it is to find good mental health people and I live in an area known for it's medical care.
Diane - great that you are starting yoga. Class last night was great for me. After relaxation pose we did some breathing and it was so calming. What DVD are you using? Check out Barbara Bengagh Yoga for stress relief. I got it at Amazon.com It is more restorative than active and the props are minimal. If you have blankets at home you are good to go. There are 20 practices of various lengths and categories. I would say it is my most used DVD. . It's hard to find classes - it's kind of like trying to find good therapists for our kids. Actually, meditation helps teach patience and when you think about it, that is what we need the most.
NoTellin - You do make sense but my son denies he has anything wrong with him. He gets along socially great - infact, all his friends are on the honor roll. When he is not stressing he is actually great with me and his dad.
My son needs the therapy. He is the one in the family with emotional problems. Sure, I get stressed and upset and crazy but I'm okay most of the time. I vent and get things out - that's how I am. I can't hold things in. My husband and I spent most of the sessions with the last Dr. alone. All it did was confirm the diagnosis of ADD and depression. I had asked the last Dr. if my son would do well in a group therapy session with kids like himself. The Dr. said that my son would do horrible because he is in such denial. Maybe down the line when my son accepts his problems we can look for such groups.
Joy - My son was pretty good this a.m. Tonight, well, we shall see. My husband and have decided we will just look at the card and be calm. No yelling, no punishing. We will try to be positive and tell him he can bring the grades up if he works but we will not let him put the blame on us.
[QUOTE=rswf]Everyone has been so supportive. Thank you.
Joy - I like the idea of the rule thing. I'll give it a try.I agree with everything you said. As it is, we have cut him slack - I even told him infront of the Dr. that if he wants to live in his room the way it is, he has to atleast let me vacuum once in awhile for health reasons. Even one of his friends called his room a pig pen
Diane - I love Eat, Pray and Love - I read it over the summer. As a student of yoga, I found the book enlightening. I'd love to take a year off - right now, I'd settle for an hour. I'm going to yoga class tonight and I hope she does an extra long meditation.
Bethanne - he is 14.
Metisrebel and Diane have been following my posts. This Dr. is great. Believe me. I have been searching since the 4th grade for someone to help treat my son. The last Dr. was a good diagnostician but, frankly, a bit scatterbrained himself. He was a psychologist but really wanted my son on meds. His manner was oppositional - not a good match with my son who likes to fight. My son hated him, and my husband didn't care for him but I clung to anything at the time. This guy didn't even want to treat him.
My son has called this new Dr. wicked nice. He even asked me "why are psychiatrists so nice?" Therefor, I think deep down he wants help but he's afraid. He is so afraid to be label "SPED" - he doesn't understand ADD and refuses to learn about it. I can't get through to him that you don't have to be hyperactive to have ADD. My son explains his executive functioning problems as "laziness"
This kid sounds so bright to me. And I'm gonna tell a little story here:
I once had to work with a young male, not much older than your son who was living in a shelter. He was diagnosed with schizophrenia and refused to medicate. That's why mom tossed him, because he disrupted the whole household. She was actually a lovely woman.The entire shelter staff kept pushing him to accept the diagnosis. And he refused. He said he was a "pot addict". So, they called me in. It's common for schizophrenics to like pot, it quiets the voices for many of them.
So, first I taught him to get his anger under control. We did this by leaving him "orange juice money" that the staff was to give him whenever he felt out of control, no matter what time of day or night he could go for a walk and buy an orange juice.
I treated him as an "addict". We talked about his drug use, etc. etc and I NEVER brought up a mental health diagnosis. We talked about his frustration in the shelter etc. etc. I fought tooth and nail with the bank to give him a bank card--not the bank the shelter residents used, but the posh one he wanted to use.
One day, we were talking and he said, "Somehow I feel like you're unreal. Like there's this big wall I can't get over to reach you."
I asked, "what is that wall?"
And he said, "I think my brain doesn't work right. Maybe I'm mentally ill."
BINGO!!!! [I nearly burst into tears but held onto my cool]. We talked some more and he agreed to see the psychiatrist.
Sometimes, AROUND the mountain works better than climbing it. He wanted to believe he was an "addict" because "addicts" might "recover" but schizophrenia is often permanent.
"Laziness" is a matter of controlled effort. ADHD is a matter of uncontrollable brain chemicals.
My sense is that this psychiatrist is using a similar technique with your son
But, when you say stop being lazy and prove to everyone you are fine he won't even try.
I have decided not to give the books I have to my son that I mentioned in a previous post on another thread -the one on ADD and teens and the teen success stories - in his frame of mind - he would throw the books at me and rebel. If I left them in the bathroom for him to "Find" he'd figure it out. After this weekend - he's not ready - yet.
I am hitting my head against a wall constantly.
The new Dr. is very aware of what is going on. His diagnosis is exactly the same as the previous Dr. My son has never taken meds. He wouldn't take them anyway. Not now. Even as a child he refused medication - oh - he takes tums - for nervous stomach - ironic isn't it?
My husband has spoken to the Dr. on the phone. I'm not going to call him at this time - frankly I'm emotionally drained right now. I've been toggling back and forth at work while on -line - that is why I have been on the board a lot today.
Well you're anticipating a big chaotic hooferaw--support is good
In the mean time, I have to keep it together because I do expect a bad day tomorrow - he's getting his report card - it will be all F's because the progress report was all F's. The teachers have made modifications but they will kick in next term. My son isn't really following the program yet anyway.
I am fully prepared for my son's "pattern" and I will muster up everything I have to not lose it. My husband says we have to stay calm and keep reminding him that the bad marks are all his fault and he can't blame anyone else.
I would want to ask d/s, "What do YOU think could improve this next time?" CALMLY of course
If after thursday I'm not on the board, I probably hit my head on the wall for real(kidding ofcourse). It's hard to see the train wreck coming and not be able to do anything.
Ah yes, but the train may need come to a screeching halt before you can get on it!
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I know I posted before, but your son sounds exactly like what my so will be like in a few years and I am not looking forward to it. Already refusing meds at 9. It is a control issue but I also believe it is more that that. Just like my son he doesn't want to "OWN" the ADD and therefore needs no meds for it. I soooo feel your pain. I wish you well on Thursday and look forward to hearing about it.AS most of you know we are going through some of the same things with our 9 year old. The refusal, the denial, we finally got him to take a stomachache pill (Zoloft) for his anxiety and depression but we couldn't call it that. We offer it to him then ignoge. I like the ides of putting 1 pill in the bottle and leaving it. I totally get where you are coming from as your is older but Mine is on his way there and its scary. I wish you luck and patience.
rswf-
I have been reading over all the posts on this thread. The big thing that stands out to me is of course your son's denial that any thing is wrong. If he claims to fail on purpose or goes into these outbursts by choice he can say "see there's nothing wrong with me." There may be some kids at school that have ADD that have other problems or that he considers "speds" that he would in no way want to be lumped together with. He may think that if he starts taking medication it will change him and make him one of "them!" He sounds very scared. You are very lucky to hae a husband that encourages patience, i think that is the only thing you can do right now. If stims are the meds your Dr has prescribed maybe place 1 in a bottle, show him where it is, tell him it is his choice to "try" it, then check it daily to see if he's taken it. If he has replace it 1 pill a t a time. This way he can't take too many and you can keep his decision as low key as possible. But ultimatly he is going to bare the responsibility for being kept back in school and not advancing with his friends to the next grade level.
My other suggestion is not to discuss his condition with him unless he agrees not to lose his temper because he doesn't like what you tell him. Then he controls the conversation.
Metisrebel - when my son has said things like" I failed on purpose", my husband comes back with "what are you trying to prove." My son never can answer.
I don't know how much more attention my son wants. He's an only child. He knows I love him unconditionally - I have told him that I will always love him, even when I don't like his behavior. He is good at pushing my buttons but I'm aware of it now and I'm not letting him as much.
The funny thing is, the more he abuses me and I phsycially remove myself from where he is, he follows me.
I think your son is hurting more inside than he is telling your or letting on. He is following you because he is seeking YOU out.
Don't give up!
I don't know your son, but my guess is that his refusal to take meds is a control thing, as is his decision to become really difficult. He knows it drives you insane and he is trying to control his environment.Is he seeing the psych without you? He should, so that he feels he can speak openly. A good therapist would hopefully be able to draw him out eventually and figure out what is going on.
Now he's in a pattern of refusing his meds, and he has dug his heals in. He isn't going to start taking them because that would be "losing" his battle with you. He will have to decide to take them on his own, and he will only do that if you don't mention the meds again -- ever. It will have to be "his" idea. Maybe put them somewhere where he has access to them and you can check their use without his knowledge.
I am saying this because I remember being at that same place with my own mom, although I didn't have ADHD. I would do whatever I could to stick it to her at that age, even if I knew that it was harmful to myself or even downright stupid.
I have read your other posts, too, and if I were in your shoes, I would figure out the fewest number of rules that will keep your family and him safe right now. Ask him, in a calm moment, what rules he would like to see in the family. Write them down and hang them on the fridge. Make sure it's not too many (like 3-4). Get his input as far as reward and punishment so that he gets some control that way. Let the rest slide for a while. I know that this would be HARD, but I get the feeling that you need to get out of battle mode first. I didn't make this up -- I learned it from a psychologist whose own son has ADHD: Few rules with child's input, write them down, post them, stick to them, use a lot of rewards, let the rest go.
He is almost an adult. He will need to learn responsibility for his choices because he will be fully responsible for them in only 4 years. Hopefully his brain will be further developed by then and he will make better choices, but I would start letting him feel the consequences of his choices (not taking meds, getting f's). The more upset you get, the more he will dig in and purposefully not change his mind about the meds or not do better in school. Don't go in for his tirades. My mom would have been far better off years ago if she had just said (nicely, not sarcastically), "That's nice, honey," or "I can't wait to talk to you when the real you has come back" instead of continuing the argument.
Just some ideas. Hope you don't think I'm lecturing. I know how it feels when you are really down about your kid and someone thinks they know what to do but they aren't in your shoes.
Joy2
Everyone has been so supportive. Thank you.
Joy - I like the idea of the rule thing. I'll give it a try.I agree with everything you said. As it is, we have cut him slack - I even told him infront of the Dr. that if he wants to live in his room the way it is, he has to atleast let me vacuum once in awhile for health reasons. Even one of his friends called his room a pig pen
Diane - I love Eat, Pray and Love - I read it over the summer. As a student of yoga, I found the book enlightening. I'd love to take a year off - right now, I'd settle for an hour. I'm going to yoga class tonight and I hope she does an extra long meditation.
Bethanne - he is 14.
Metisrebel and Diane have been following my posts. This Dr. is great. Believe me. I have been searching since the 4th grade for someone to help treat my son. The last Dr. was a good diagnostician but, frankly, a bit scatterbrained himself. He was a psychologist but really wanted my son on meds. His manner was oppositional - not a good match with my son who likes to fight. My son hated him, and my husband didn't care for him but I clung to anything at the time. This guy didn't even want to treat him.
My son has called this new Dr. wicked nice. He even asked me "why are psychiatrists so nice?" Therefor, I think deep down he wants help but he's afraid. He is so afraid to be label "SPED" - he doesn't understand ADD and refuses to learn about it. I can't get through to him that you don't have to be hyperactive to have ADD. My son explains his executive functioning problems as "laziness"
But, when you say stop being lazy and prove to everyone you are fine he won't even try.
I have decided not to give the books I have to my son that I mentioned in a previous post on another thread -the one on ADD and teens and the teen success stories - in his frame of mind - he would throw the books at me and rebel. If I left them in the bathroom for him to "Find" he'd figure it out. After this weekend - he's not ready - yet.
I am hitting my head against a wall constantly.
The new Dr. is very aware of what is going on. His diagnosis is exactly the same as the previous Dr. My son has never taken meds. He wouldn't take them anyway. Not now. Even as a child he refused medication - oh - he takes tums - for nervous stomach - ironic isn't it?
My husband has spoken to the Dr. on the phone. I'm not going to call him at this time - frankly I'm emotionally drained right now. I've been toggling back and forth at work while on -line - that is why I have been on the board a lot today.
In the mean time, I have to keep it together because I do expect a bad day tomorrow - he's getting his report card - it will be all F's because the progress report was all F's. The teachers have made modifications but they will kick in next term. My son isn't really following the program yet anyway.
I am fully prepared for my son's "pattern" and I will muster up everything I have to not lose it. My husband says we have to stay calm and keep reminding him that the bad marks are all his fault and he can't blame anyone else.
If after thursday I'm not on the board, I probably hit my head on the wall for real(kidding ofcourse). It's hard to see the train wreck coming and not be able to do anything.
rswf39399.5508796296
oh boy, well keep us posted. I will say something trite here..............every phase passes...............ok dont shoot me, it really does.
Enjoy your birthday away, you deserve it so much.
Some days those hours of prayer in meditation from the book seem a better place! I know you are a student of yoga which is why I mentioned the book . It has prompted me to start myself. I am doing it at home by DVD, for now, until I have a bit more freedom to go to class! 4 months in an Ashram is above me, but you get the point!
BPQW - my son can control some of his behavior - yes, the ODD is caused by situtations he wants to avoid but he is choosing to be extra offensive - he told my husband " this is the new me."
He has turned into trash mouth and is now taking the behavior to public places - places he has never acted out before.
Metisrebel - we are going away in Dec. for my B-day.
I agree with Metis, rswf I've also been following your posts. If the doctor said this in front of your son, I also feel it was for a reason and that maybe he is not seeing ODD as the issue. That said, I also would have a meeting, or at least a phone call, with the doctor without my son and find out what his thoughts are.
Your son does not WANT to fail. No matter how it looks. It's so hard for these kids, they feel so out of control and refusing their meds is such a way for them to control whats happening to them.
I feel for you, and dont really have any advice, except agreeing with the time away...............
I am reading the book Eat, Pray, Love a memoir of a woman who basically takes a year off from life, goes to spend 4 months in Italy (to eat), 4 months in India (to pray) and 4 months in Indonesia (must be the love part). Every time I pick it up, I try to comprehend a whole year of no responsibility for the most part...........can you even imagine! If you're a reader, pick it up, nothing like fantasy through literature .
rswf, How old is your son?
Is the reason that he is in denial and thinks that ADHD is some mental illness and he feels he isn't mentally ill?
I wonder if it would help telling him all the famous and successful people that have ADHD and still have a wonderful life.
All the meds do is control any impusiveness, anything negative that adhd'ers can't control. Maybe he won't need meds for the rest of his life, but meds will enable him to have a successful life while growing up. they will help him in school, social situations, even driving a car. They will help him to make the right choices and not the impusive decisions, if you know what I mean.
I feel really bad because all you want to do is help him, and give him the best life that he deserves.
A lot describe the adhd meds to wearing prescription glasses. You need the glasses to see better. ADHD'ers need the meds to control their adhd, or whatever. Again, you know what I mean.
Keep up the communication with him, give him other people who you know are on meds and successful if you know any. How about Ty Pennington from Home Makeovers, he's doing pretty darn good with his show and all.
And I agree, find another doctor. I would be upset if my doc said that in front of my child. That sets you up for failure in this department!
[QUOTE=rswf]BPQW - my son can control some of his behavior - yes, the ODD is caused by situtations he wants to avoid but he is choosing to be extra offensive - he told my husband " this is the new me."
Too bad hubby didn't turn that one around in the moment and reply, "And is this what you WANT to be?"
He has turned into trash mouth and is now taking the behavior to public places - places he has never acted out before.
A little attention seeking there, I see. Also, "will you love me if I'm a complete and total jerk?" response. [the obvious is, "I love you just fine no matter what. However, I don't want to be seen in public with you!"]
Metisrebel - we are going away in Dec. for my B-day.
Have a marvelous day and give the dog some cheerios from his board auntie
It's not about "legal"--yes it is legal.
However, if I put drugs in your food--would you ever trust me again? The drug problem may resolve itself over time would the trust problem?
BTW riverbassfishin--I like fishing for lake bass
[QUOTE=rswf]
elizam - I'm glad your son is doing better in highschool. It's so nice to hear positive things. It has to be hard for him to accept that he needs the meds to do well. It's like a diabetic refusing the insulin thinking only diet will do the trick.
You are right - we can't force the issue. I just hope my son makes it to highschool this year. I'll check out that book, sounds interesting. I'm not talking about ADD or executive functioning dissorder or anything starting now. The Dr. is even downplaying it. As Metisrebel's story pointed out, I think my son needs to think he is anything else but ADD. I made a mistake last week. My son was asking if he has Aspergers syndrome. I said no. He asked if he had ADD and I answered Yes. He got upset and went into a rage and anxiety attack.
I don't think you made a "mistake" there. You gave him your honest opinion. You're not his counsellor you're his mom so honesty is best
However, when you're up to it--consider going back to him and asking, "What made you ask if you have aspergers?" Then don't say a word about ADHD.
[I suspect he believes that no one denies what asperger's is and he can be certifiably mentally ill but there are many of the population who deny ADHD and think of it negatively. Also, there's the belief that ADHD is self-controllable]
We all know he has it, his psychiatrist knows he has it and whether he admits it or not, my son has to come to the realization on his own.
I just hope me and my husband can survive while he is discovering this since I think it will be a long time coming.
Joy2 - he mentioned Aspergers because the first psychologist we went to for help when he was in the 5th grade said maybe Aspergers. She wasn't much help - she just met with him 4 times, gave us the diagnosis and told my son if he wanted to come back and talk to her he could. She left it up to the Kid!
I started becoming an expert on Aspergers and kept trying to point out to her that he was missing the main characteristic - he has no trouble making friends - he is shy with adults but he is very social - too social. As a dug deeper I found that he didn't have so much have Aspergers but all the coexisting conditions that coincidentally, were very common with ADD.
Well the positive side is that many studies show that people who have good social relationships [aka emotional intelligence] do better in the long run than anybody else. So there's hope for the young fella
Long story short - after concurring opinions from his pediatrician, school psychologist and teachers, Aspergers was ruled out but ADD was suggested. You know the rest of the story.
It's hard not to blame yourself. The first therapist did say it wasn't bad parenting. It's hard though because with our kids, normal parenting doesn't work and, at least for me, I never know when to be strict or just to let it go.
Figure out what are kid sins [just like doggy sins] and what are kid no-no's. Sins stop first. No-no's are something you get around to
Tonight I am anticipating the routine - he'll be sitting on the couch, glummly, waiting for me. He'll show me the report card and say "I need help." Ofcourse I'll agree. OR - he'll go into routine #2 - blame the world for his bad grades and try to pick a fight with me. Either way, I'm prepared.
Prepared to do what? Didja buy a one-way ticket to Hawaii?
[/QUOTE]
"Tonight I am anticipating the routine - he'll be sitting on the couch, glummly, waiting for me. He'll show me the report card and say "I need help." Ofcourse I'll agree. OR - he'll go into routine #2 - blame the world for his bad grades and try to pick a fight with me. Either way, I'm prepared."
A good idea might to be just to look at it, sign it and hand it back. No questions asked. Let him open the discussion. If he says "I need help," ask him what would you like us to do?
The only other med suggestion I might make is if the subject comes up - is a slow release stimulant that he would take once in the morining, tell him no one would have to know it could be just between you, your husband and him. It would be just a six week experiment - till the next grade period. This way he wouldn't have to take anything during the day at school so for the time being they could be left out of the loop. You could possibly start it over the holidays so you could watch for side effects.
I'm sorry if my suggestions are too invasive, I just understand what it's like to have a teenage son that refused meds. I never had others to bounce ideas off of and the result was to let them go it without and watch them struggle. From the outside it may have appeared to others that I gave up but the battle became worse than letting my boys find their own way. Now my boys are men and they feel free to come to me and their father about anything and everything! And I mean everything! Sometimes I think they give me to much information!
Your son sounds like he's very intelligent and social. Unfortunately for kids like ours the public school system, even as far as it has come in the last 15 or so years is still not very adept at acommadating them. It's especially hard when they(the kids) are as strong-willed as ours are.
Joy2 - he mentioned Aspergers because the first psychologist we went to for help when he was in the 5th grade said maybe Aspergers. She wasn't much help - she just met with him 4 times, gave us the diagnosis and told my son if he wanted to come back and talk to her he could. She left it up to the Kid!
I started becoming an expert on Aspergers and kept trying to point out to her that he was missing the main characteristic - he has no trouble making friends - he is shy with adults but he is very social - too social. As a dug deeper I found that he didn't have so much have Aspergers but all the coexisting conditions that coincidentally, were very common with ADD.
Long story short - after concurring opinions from his pediatrician, school psychologist and teachers, Aspergers was ruled out but ADD was suggested. You know the rest of the story.
It's hard not to blame yourself. The first therapist did say it wasn't bad parenting. It's hard though because with our kids, normal parenting doesn't work and, at least for me, I never know when to be strict or just to let it go.
Tonight I am anticipating the routine - he'll be sitting on the couch, glummly, waiting for me. He'll show me the report card and say "I need help." Ofcourse I'll agree. OR - he'll go into routine #2 - blame the world for his bad grades and try to pick a fight with me. Either way, I'm prepared.
Our report cards will be out in 2-3 weeks. We do not expect passing grades. He will be devastased. Maybe he will come to you for help as I am hoping mine will. I feel for you so much as the situations are so similar. Your in my thoughts. [QUOTE=rswf]
Last night he wanted to know why our family was so "dismembered" I think he meant dysfunctional. When I said that dismembered meant disjointed and no limbs he said "I meant that figuratively" I hope the Dr. can point out that we are "dismembered" because of his behaviour.
That made me smile
. Ironic that they cause the chaos and then suffer the most because of it. I'm surprised that he would prefer to have Asperger's over ADHD. Why is that, I wonder? To me, ADHD is a little more approachable or solvable, but maybe that's just because I am used to it
. Good luck tonight. Remember, it's not YOUR report card. (I have to constantly tell myself that my son's work does not reflect my parenting skills or academic abilities, which is SO HARD.)
[QUOTE=rswf]
It's hard not to blame yourself. The first therapist did say it wasn't bad parenting. It's hard though because with our kids, normal parenting doesn't work and, at least for me, I never know when to be strict or just to let it go.
[/QUOTE]A very good psychologist, who really knew the neurology of the disorder, just told me, "It has absolutely nothing to do with you. It's genetic." I think that it's interesting that our kids often have very uneven abilities, which points to a wiring issue.
Do you have CHADD meetings? Maybe they would have some ideas for you. I haven't gone to a meeting but went to a wonderful conference that they held. Discipline is such a big issue for everyone -- it was nice to not pretend that everything was "just fine" for one day.
Diane - the one you have isn't the one I have. I'm at work and I'll give you the name of it - it's multiple pratices - beginner, interm., advanced. It's kind of dry but I like it because you can pick a practice for as little as 20 min to an hour or longer. She cues well and she teaches poses that my teacher doesn't.
You may like Crunch Candlelight Yoga. You can probably get it on Amazon. It's very relaxing and is beginner. It's 45 min. but it's very relaxing. Susan Deason.
My son acts that way too. He really doesn't see how his behavior is driving his parents nuts or causing him to fail. That is what the Dr. is trying to make him see. Not having ADD, I don't understand fully how someone can be in such denial - really, having ADD is not that bad - it's treatable and many people go on to be quite successful. I guess because it's a brain dissorder it has a stigma attached and there has been so much negative press about it in the media - especially about medications.
Again, you guys are wonderful.
Diane - I think I have Yoga for Beginners - is that the one with multiple workouts on it? I laughed with you when you said you couldn't move your arms. Depending on the style of yoga, you can really build strength - Sometimes I take an Ashtanga class - boy does that make me sweat.
You all are right - he is definately afraid of being considered SPED - over the summer he was talking about the "SPED" kids at lunch - how one lost complete control and had to be removed - my son was shaking when he told the story because I think he recognized a little of himself when he loses it.
We can not talk about medication yet because when it was brought up my son got very upset. I would never medicate him without his knowledge - talk about erroding trust - now if he was younger - a little kid - 7 and up - maybe - but not a rebelious teen. He has to come to the realization that he needs it. Funny thing is that he taught himself some kind of computer code and has been working on a website for a friend - this is from a kid who is FAILING!!!!
Report cards didn't come out because of a computer glitch. He's getting them tonight plus his weekly report. Should be a rock and rollin weekend. Good thing is my husband is not working this weekend and will be around and we have the standing apt. with the psychiatrist.
He may have to fail to move forward. Last night he wanted to know why our family was so "dismembered" I think he meant dysfunctional. When I said that dismembered meant disjointed and no limbs he said "I meant that figuratively" I hope the Dr. can point out that we are "dismembered" because of his behaviour.
Dr. Said he can't handle any kind of pressure at all - he shuts down. Makes sense -if it is ADD his brain just can't organize everything.
at least he is recognizing the family is in stress and probably wants to help change that, my daughter just pretends things are fine even when they're not so she doesnt have to organize and seal with ehr thoughts.
Yes the beginner DVD is 2 25 minute workouts...........I think, I looked at so many and couldnt decide what to buy. The one I have now is definitely to build strength, I will like it when I get better!