transition problems... (vent) | ADHD Information
[QUOTE=quixote]My son has always had trouble with transitions, but I never imagined thatit could get worse! The four year old that wouldn't let me dress him to
leave the house I learned to deal with, but I never thought we would still
be having this fight at seven. Lately he is having more trouble with
everything, and we have increased his Adderall and just added Tenex. He
does very little on his own, and everything that I tell him to do (clean up
that toy, rinse your plate, get your shoes on) he makes a screaming noise,
stomps, or says "I don't want to" and refuses. I then count to three, and
he does it (or starts to) on two. (if I get to three he gets spanked)
There's problem #1 for a number of reasons.
Spanking only tells the kid "I'm bigger" it doesn't teach him to get dressed.If you punish a child the same way 3x and there is no compliance--that correction does not motivate that particular childIf he has ODD you want to cut the possibilites of his non-compliance down to a dull roar. If you order--he'll defy. See if you can get some compliance by asking, "What needs to get done?" then "And how are you going to do that?"
Sometimes, asking the child perspnally for their help then THANKING them will get you further than anything else. You can at least try it.
I have
had to count at least 15 times this morning. He was a monster in the
grocery store, once I managed to pry him out of the house under threat.
At the store I tried to ignore his words and attitude, so he started hanging
on me and stepping on the cart wheels. (he got many consequences)
He has an ODD diagnosis, based on Conners rating scales, but I have
always believed that is not a condition, it is a symptom. I just can't
understand what is wrong and I am so frustrated! I know he is pushing
back because he wants to keep control because transitions threaten him
somehow, and he can't think clearly because of ADHD/executive function
issues, but that doesn't stop me from wanting to sell him to the circus
sometimes.
We've all been there
I get so angry and so determined not to let him get away with
anything, even though he wouldn't remember that he "got away" with it.
On top of everything else, he will always pull it together and be a
charming angel around my family (who make no demands of him) so my
folks think I am "drugging" him unnecessarily. They hit me up with that
on Thanksgiving Day.
They don't have to live with a struggling child every day--you do.
Someone tell me this could get better...[/QUOTE]
If you want to root around here and check out some new ways of dealing with struggling children and hopefully combined with some medical intervention this WILL get better...be patient it all takes time
My son is 10 and doesn't transition so well at home. School has never mentioned it.
At home I give him cues. A heads up at like 15 minutes then like 10, etc. down to like 3. Lately by 3 he says lets go, or I am off the computer, etc.
That has really helped.
I am now training my husband to do it with him.
I agree with MetisRebel - spanking is not a good way to go. Neither is yelling. It always adds more fuel to the fire - so to speak. I've learned this from experience. My daughter is 10.5 and can be very defiant at times.
BTW - I still help her get dressed for school. It's not because she can't, it just helps ease her into her morning. Otherwise, after I wake her up, she would probably go back to sleep. While, it's not ideal, it works for us. Her 13 year old sister takes at least 3 reminders to get out of bed. I won't go downstairs to make lunches/breakfast until she is actually out of bed and in the shower...
One thing to remember is that ADD kids emotionally lag behind their peers. He maybe 7, but emotionally a 4 year old. If the store is an issues, is there anyway you can just leave him with someone else while you go? If he can't handle it, why put both of you through it.
10 Days to a Less Defiant Child by Jeffrey Bernsteain, PHD is a great book. It has many helpful suggestions. He spends one chapter on "Sidestepping the Yelling Trap" and another on "Avoiding Power Struggles". He also talks about why child are defiant and how we can better understand them.
If your child has anger issue as well - "The Explosive Child" by Greene is another good book.
If you like to listen to PodCasts - check out:
http://www.addresources.org/adhd_podcasts.php
If you join, they are free. Otherwise, they are .00 a piece. I highly recommend the "Parenting Toolkit" by Ron Feinberg. "Raising ADD Kids" by Danial Amen is also a great one. I listened to parts of the Greenberg and Chandler talks and they were good as well.
I would also highly recommend bringing in outside help. Finding a good psychologist or LCSW is very helpful. We have been working with a LCSW for the past two months. It is something we should have done much earlier. (Things settled down pretty nicely after the initial diagnosis and starting of med's. Recently, things have been more challenging. We are working on the behavior side of things and also working on adjusting med's).
Good luck. Vent any time you need to. I think the majority of us have been there many times.
HorseMom39410.9871875There's actually a major physical reason why spanking and hitting increase bad behaviour.In everyone's brain are opoids that cause one to feel calm.
The other biggie is adreneline.
When one gets an adreneline rush [heart pounding, shaking, energized] that's exciting. It dulls pain both physically and emotionally.
If someone is in the middle of an adreneline rush and comes in contact with physical pain [athletes are WELL aware of this fact] they will not feel it the same way.
However, the opoids in the brain are then released when the adreneline has dropped to deal with the physical pain. THAT sensation is fabulous and it also halts the immediate mental trauma--meaning the emotional trauma is being negated. That's why some children do not behave but are calm after you spank them.
If this happens frequently [such as spanking as a punishment] the person will begin to SEEK the adreneline rush and then the opoid rush. It's like being a junkie to one's own brain.
So it's very, very important we DON'T feed that need in other people or we'll be feeding into their chemical chaos instead of finding effective solutions to what's happening and keeping them focussed on what they need to DO--not the uproar.
I call this "Addicted to Uproar"
My son has always had trouble with transitions, but I never imagined that
it could get worse! The four year old that wouldn't let me dress him to
leave the house I learned to deal with, but I never thought we would still
be having this fight at seven. Lately he is having more trouble with
everything, and we have increased his Adderall and just added Tenex. He
does very little on his own, and everything that I tell him to do (clean up
that toy, rinse your plate, get your shoes on) he makes a screaming noise,
stomps, or says "I don't want to" and refuses. I then count to three, and
he does it (or starts to) on two. (if I get to three he gets spanked) I have
had to count at least 15 times this morning. He was a monster in the
grocery store, once I managed to pry him out of the house under threat.
At the store I tried to ignore his words and attitude, so he started hanging
on me and stepping on the cart wheels. (he got many consequences)
He has an ODD diagnosis, based on Conners rating scales, but I have
always believed that is not a condition, it is a symptom. I just can't
understand what is wrong and I am so frustrated! I know he is pushing
back because he wants to keep control because transitions threaten him
somehow, and he can't think clearly because of ADHD/executive function
issues, but that doesn't stop me from wanting to sell him to the circus
sometimes.I get so angry and so determined not to let him get away with
anything, even though he wouldn't remember that he "got away" with it.
On top of everything else, he will always pull it together and be a
charming angel around my family (who make no demands of him) so my
folks think I am "drugging" him unnecessarily. They hit me up with that
on Thanksgiving Day.
Someone tell me this could get better...I help my son who is eight and can dress himself, get dressed in the morning. I don't have time for a fight and to me it isn't worth it. I do not dress him all the way, I put the shirt over his head, and his pants on to his ankles. Socks and shoes vary to how much time is left (he or I do it). Mine has always had transitional problems, I usually give him warnings that something is going to happen, go someplace etc... so he is prepared for it. Mine usually behaves on family get togethers, but thankfully I do not have problems with my family concerning my son. You need to do what you need to do and that is nobody else's decision. My son acted up in grocery stores constantly until they became routine. He likes the little toys in the quarter machines so he would get a toy if he behaved. Aaron'smom39410.6486226852 [QUOTE=quixote]The thing is, I very rarely "get to three" and need to spank him. Maybe
twice a year. It just seems like this is the only dance he knows the steps
to, like the adreneline is the only thing that cuts through the fog. When
he is like this, he can't speak ("I don't want to" is the first thing that he
has been able to say, and it has only been in the last week or so), can't
reason, and nothing has ever been able to motivate him.
I'm not sure I understand--can you describe 1-2-3-4 how an incident escalates? Maybe we can find some de-escalation [although you seem to be doing quite well under the circumstances] techniques that will work for you.
Is he on ANY meds?
If he is too far
gone, I won't try for compliance, it would be setting him up for
punishment. (I have read the Explosive Child over and over; I prefer the
basket version to the new "plans") The only thing is, I am a single mom
with a job that I need to keep, he must go to school, certain elements of
personal hygiene must be attended to, and some groceries must be
replenished between his weekends with his dad. I have taken as much out
of the picture as possible- he sleeps in clean school clothes, I bring him
his meds and juice in bed before he has to get up, socks-shoes-jacket-
backpack always in a row by the front door, most errands and stock-up
grocery trips are done by myself.
You're doing well with all that by yourself. I have to tell you that I'm wowed!
What's going on at Dad's end of this?
I wish there was a special 'Supernanny" with hidden cameras for our
kids... we have seen a few psychologists, but the last two "saw" Aspergers
and never really interacted with him, because he appears to be on the
spectrum, but if he is pushed his personality bubbles out and he interacts
normally.
Have you considered a webcam and leave it on to tape and show them?
I guess I got discouraged with professionals, but maybe it is
time to try again.
I don't blame you there. I worked in the field and I'm exceptionally fussy as to who gets to play with MY head
Horsemom, you mentioned a few resources that I had
not heard of before; I will check out the podcasts. What is a LCSW?[/QUOTE]
If it's behavioural I'd go with a psychologist who specializes in kids of this nature if that's possible...
The thing is, I very rarely "get to three" and need to spank him. Maybe
twice a year. It just seems like this is the only dance he knows the steps
to, like the adreneline is the only thing that cuts through the fog. When
he is like this, he can't speak ("I don't want to" is the first thing that he
has been able to say, and it has only been in the last week or so), can't
reason, and nothing has ever been able to motivate him. If he is too far
gone, I won't try for compliance, it would be setting him up for
punishment. (I have read the Explosive Child over and over; I prefer the
basket version to the new "plans") The only thing is, I am a single mom
with a job that I need to keep, he must go to school, certain elements of
personal hygiene must be attended to, and some groceries must be
replenished between his weekends with his dad. I have taken as much out
of the picture as possible- he sleeps in clean school clothes, I bring him
his meds and juice in bed before he has to get up, socks-shoes-jacket-
backpack always in a row by the front door, most errands and stock-up
grocery trips are done by myself.
I wish there was a special 'Supernanny" with hidden cameras for our
kids... we have seen a few psychologists, but the last two "saw" Aspergers
and never really interacted with him, because he appears to be on the
spectrum, but if he is pushed his personality bubbles out and he interacts
normally. I guess I got discouraged with professionals, but maybe it is
time to try again. Horsemom, you mentioned a few resources that I had
not heard of before; I will check out the podcasts. What is a LCSW?LCSW is a Liscenced Clinical social worker.
Well, I have a defiant child - always was -now 14.
Try to stay calm - that does work - he can't fight with you if you aren't fighting.
You have to find what motivates him to comply - tough thing I know.
My son never could handle transitions and still can't. It would bring out the worst behavior.
I warn my son only twice now - on the second he loses computer time. When he mouths off "I don't care" I increase it - he lost it on Thanksgiving - it went from a week to now the end of December
Don't discuss the medications with people who don't understand - you don't need the aggrevation.
Amen rswf--good concrete advice... [QUOTE=BETHANN]
HorseMom, great comment on the picking out their own toothpaste and brush.
We do the same, it makes all the difference in the world, and then they brush!!
the toothbrushes that play music when you brush and louder when you brush faster work well. We bought dd the Hannah Montana one and my son got a "guy" one! He also is picky about the flavors of his toothpaste, but loves the cars fruit flavor by oral gel I believe sold at walmart.
It really works having them pick out their own and what they like!!
[/QUOTE]
Hey they also have the tune brushes now. It plays music when they are brushing and goes off in 3 minutes, that way they get that 3 minute brushing. they are made for kids, so check out your Walmart.
HorseMom, great comment on the picking out their own toothpaste and brush.
We do the same, it makes all the difference in the world, and then they brush!!
the toothbrushes that play music when you brush and louder when you brush faster work well. We bought dd the Hannah Montana one and my son got a "guy" one! He also is picky about the flavors of his toothpaste, but loves the cars fruit flavor by oral gel I believe sold at walmart.
It really works having them pick out their own and what they like!!
He is very hard to motivate, and last summer I stumbled on a doozy. He
got totally obsessed with printing things on the computer, so I told him
that every time he brushed his own teeth when I told him, he would earn
a print coupon so he could print one thing. This worked for three days,
then I was back to doing it to him, often by threat or force (sitting on
him). He has already had one tooth capped (0 bill for full anesthesia,
missed days of school & work) and I feel like I was responsible for letting
it happen. His father does not brush his own teeth, so they are all fuzzy
green stumps, and he cannot afford dentures. I do not coax; he doesn't
respond to that at all because there would have to be something that he
cared about, and he seems to care about nothing.
Sorry, bad day. I just can't find what makes him tick, I guess.
Improved compliance is one of the things we have been working on. To accomplish this, we are tracking every time she says "OK" and does what she is asked. We track them on a chart - simple tallies - or stickers might work better for the younger kids - and give LOTS of praise. We make a HUGE deal out of the positives things she does/accomplished. Once she has earned a "tally", they don't go away.
My daughters first goal was earn her gameboy back and a new game. (It had been previously taken away because of a major tantrum over it.) We agreed on 170 tallies. This took her about 3.5-4 weeks to accomplish. She is currently working towards her next goal of 120 tallies for a Zoo tycoon expansion pack. This will probably take her 3 weeks.
We have probably been at this for 6 weeks now, and in general, I have a much greater degree of compliance than I have had before.
For us, this has been simple to implement and actually follow through on. Other charting system usually fell to the wayside after a week or two because they were just too much work to do. Working on one behavior in a positive way has been pretty effective for us.
The other things that might be helpful is to just spend 20 minutes a day with your son doing whatever he wants to do. Just play with them. We play chess, build with legos, play soccer or whatever else she feels like. It's another way to provide positive attention. Barkley talks about this in his book "Taking Charge of ADHD". (Later in the book, he goes into his token system, which just doesn't work for us.)
BTW - we too have teeth brushing issues. This past week it actually has been pretty good. I got different tooth paste that she seems to like better. She wanted a bubble gum mint that Aquafresh makes but I couldn't find it. I purchased Disney Princess tooth paste that come out in as a heart as a joke. They thought it was FUNNY and will use it. Go figure.
Good luck.
HorseMom39414.0700925926quixote, I would deal with this one thing at a time. Say teeth brushing, stop all the negotiating and talking, just tell him once, it's time to brush your teeth, go with him. If he starts to pass the bathroom, put your hand on his shoulder and direct him in the bathroom (when he pulls away and makes a noise ignore him). Pick up his toothbrush and hand it to him and stand there. He wont know what to do if you're not following him around coaxing him. Even though there may be no yelling, he's loving this little game. Dont play it. Same with his clothes, stand there and say ok put on your shirt and hand it to him. No discussion. If he doesnt take off his pajamas and put it on yourself. If he fights with you, walk out. Go do something then come back. If he does any of these things without you having to help, give hime a reward (sticker, marble, whatever you use). The key is to take out the struggle. This will take your time, but he'll get it.Metisrebel, he is on Adderall XR twice a day, just upped to 20 mg at 6:00am and 10 mg at noon. We started tenex last week- too early to tell on
that.
An example would be, after he eats his cereal and I clean up, I tell him it
is time to go upstairs for toothbrushing. He will huff and lately say I-
don't-want-to. I will tell him "I need you to go right now" and he probably
will. BUT he will go upstairs and right past the bathroom, into his room.
So then it is "come here right now" when I get into the bathroom. I will
probably get a small growl from the bedroom. I go in there and he will be
sucking his thumb with his stuffed animal and maybe rocking and
glaring. I get down to his level and say "I need to brush your teeth right
now- go." he might growl or do a wierd little muffled scream. He might
then stomp into the bathroom, or I might need to count. Then he will go
into the bathroom, sit on the toilet, but not open his mouth. Repeat all
steps above. This is every day. The same for tucking in his shirt, putting
on his shoes and socks, and going out the door, getting in the car, and
sometimes even putting on his seatbelt. He gets a treat in his lunch if he
does shoes, tucking shirt, and jacket without being told more than once,
but it has been many weeks since he earned that.
I did video him about 1 1/2 years ago... the psychologist saw it and
immediately referred us to a psychiatrist, feeling that he needed more
than stimulants. Right about that time though, he turned a corner and got
his act together a bit, so we stuck with the Adderall only. She did teach
me some good restraints and ways of moving him about the house safely,
but now he is bigger and the stairs make that a lot more treacherous.
As for his dad, he has the same standards and expectations as I do, but
their weekends are so unstructured that these kinds of issues don't come
up as often. I have noticed that since this summer they rarely leave the
house all weekend. His dad has ADHD also, and might start the day
meaning to do one project, then finds he needs a tool, then starts to
organize his toolbox, then surfs the web for another tool he remembers
he needed, then plays a computer game, then next thing he knows his
girlfriend comes home and the lawn is half mowed, the car's brakes are
half-assembled, the dog hasn't been let out, and he is on the floor
playing with trucks with his son. He doesn't remember to have DS bathe
or brush his teeth, but boy does he remember his medicine! He learned
that lesson the hard way. He won't remember the tenex, but his girlfriend
will. My son says she is "The Rememberer".
I'll tell you what, it is a lot easier dealing with my son alone than it was
taking care of the both of them!
Sorry I've babbled on, but Metisrebel and all of you, I really value your
advice... thank you so much! I agree spanking is not going to help anything. My son used to be VERY bad at adjustments(he has Adjustment disorder with anxiety and depressed moods) and I think over the years and with the recent help of Zoloft he has become a new little boy. He still worries a little too much and has some separation anxiety but he is sooo much better than before.