Daytrana then vyvanse, still nothing:( | ADHD Information
Nancy,This is one of the hardest letter I have ever written but I hope it can help
you understand my past to see if you see a relationship. The
vindictiveness I can remember when I was a kid was my number one goal;
was to get back at anyone I felt had done something to me. Some of it
was spontaneous and other times it was well planned out and would
come in all forms. My brother was older, by two years. If he really made
me mad, I would grab a weapon (usually any object), whatever I could
find and throw it at him or chase him with it. This only happened at least
once or twice a year. I remember one time I chased him around the
house, with my dads belt heavy belt and buckle swinging the belt buckle
at him fast, really trying to hurt him and hit him in the head and I broke
out at least 5 french door window panes. He escaped and I didn't even
realize I had broken the windows, I didn't care because I was going to get
him no matter what. I didn't care about the beating I was going to get
afterwards and calmed down, I was 10 at the time. That the first time I
remember having an anger issue that was extreme, and it came without
control. When I was 11, my brother really pissed me off and we were in
the kitchen, I grab a really big knife and chased him with around the
house with it trying to stab him. If he would not have been faster I think I
would have stabbed him, maybe not multiple times but I was going to
hurt him for hurting me. My brother never told my parents, and I never
did either until a couple of years ago. I really do love my brother and
loved him then, but I totally flipped out and it was like someone else took
over.
We are not serial killers, but I can say when I was little my temper was
three times shorter than it is now. We are capable of doing it only if we
are threatened. I'm going to be honest, now that I know he is 6, yes I
think vyvanse is way to powerful of a drug to put him on. I would take
him off of everything until he is at least 17 or in high school. Yes, I very
much believe absolutely that vyvanse is making him worse. Im not a Dr.
but I know more about, ADHA because I know myself . Vyvanse is a
very powerful drug and I can say is the Adult cure for this problem, but
little ADHD kids have so many issues they need to work out first and how
to control the anger, they dont know how to deal with yet or their fuse
can be deadly. Here is a good point, Vyvanse is meant to keep you
focused. When I was a kid, I didn't listen to anyone unless I cared about
what they were saying and I was not on any drugs and I was allot like
what your son is putting you through. What I mean is, if I was in art,
music, or PE class in elementary school you bet I paid attention. How is
Vyvanse going to help kids with ADHD when they do not care to listen
about what they are not interested in? I do not understand why Doctors
prescribe Vyvanse to little kids or any other drug for ADHD because how
is the drug going to make ADHD kids pay attention, when they do not
care to listen? You know what I'm saying the reason why the drug works
now for me now is because I care about paying attention at work and
want to keep my job and do well. I cared in college and was on Adderall
and did really well when I found my goal in life. Adderall made me a little
freaky but I made it out. When I'm on this drug I can stay focused at work
and not so much of a freak but with either of the drugs I still had a
temper. I get mad at freinds and delete them off of my phone, just did
that last night for them not calling me back. The drug doesn't help
my with my anger it is always there.
The best best indicator is now. If your son says he is going to hurt
someone he is thinking about it. He will think about it and think about it
and wont act out on anything until there is a moment of extreme anger or
extreme passion. Some type of major trigger usually thats how it is with
me. It would be a good idea to hide all your knifes or at least keep them
out of his way and lock them up. Do not ever have any guns in the house
as long as he is growing up or baseball bats, rocks, or bricks. He is a
good kid, I bet really sweet and smart. It is in the heat of the passion
when he might loose it. It got worse for me the older and rose then fell
like a graph. It peaked at 15, and went down by the time I was 22 the
violence started going back down.
I do not have a relationship with anyone, I'm single and have no kids. My
brother and I are very close now and at family gatherings the fights are
brought up as a joke and most people look like we are all crazy. I
didn't want to even have a chance to be like my dad, and didn't want to
risk ever hurting a child of mine so I never had any kids. People with
ADHD have problems with relationships we are so weird.
What really worked for me as a punishment was not being able to spend
the night at friends or not going to the movie or watching TV. That hurt
more than anything and I never freaked out, I may have driven my hand
through glass once but didn't try to hurt my mom. I only freaked out
when I was spanked or verbally abused by my dad, brother, or other kids.
I really do not no the answer but I do not think Vyvanse can be
help this early in life. I will ask my mom what she thinks since she has
been through this and get back to you.brenn_col39444.7485416667How old is your son? I can say that being vindictive and impusive is part
of ADHD, because I'll admit I was and still am I just don't act on it as
much. I know I have paranoid schizophrenia that is a big part of ADHD,
and I tend to take things the wrong way and blow it way out of
perportion. I always think that people are out to get me when they do
something that I don't like, and I think they are mean, so I'll be mean
back, or that is how I was when I was a kid, and I've learned to control
that anger. Since being on Vyvanse, I can say my paranoia is better than
it's ever been, and I don't over react as much.
My mother asked me when I was 17 or 18, why do you hate me so much?
I never answered her, because I didn't truley didn't hate her, but she
could see anger I had towards her by the way I talked to her and treated
her. I thought about that question for years, and know the answer, but
still have not told her (i'm sure she has forgotten). For me it was because
my mom could not handle me at all, and she would say to my Dad just
about every other day, Take care of your son. My Dad would spank me
but it was more like a beating. I think I blammed her for years for those
beatings and still have a hard time today forgiving her for that, even
though I have. The only reason I'm sharing these memories is because we
are so freaking complicated and it has taken me years to figure myself
out and I feel led to help a little me anyway I can. I was an extreme case
really, my mom says I was like wild animal and it took me a year of
therapy and getting in big trouble with the law when I was 15, to get my
head straight. Nancy had a good point, generally he will get better, but it
is a battle. I know it was for my mom. She is the strongest person I know
and we are really close now. I love her so much I can not move away and
leave Columbia. My mom and dad both have ADHD, and both are very
successful, smart, and divorced. My dad is an engineer, and my mom is a
wonderful nurse. I can laugh now but couples that both have ADHD
should never get married.Brenn_col:He is six years old, so vindictive is a huge part of it? Well do you have children, or if you did and you had a child with the same set of issues, what would you do? How do you think you would react? Thats what I am having the most issues with. I don't know how to approach things, I am constantly asking myself, should you back off, or should you say something. And almost everything he does(bless his heart) is for a reason. Angry, mad, just plain pissed off. The way he reacts is what i can't deal with. He also like you think every1 is out to get him. Sometimes when I tell him to do something like "go to time out for hitting your brother" He'll say "you hate me don't you". I have never would never tell my son anything of the such ever. EVER. So then I start to feel guilty because i put him in time out.Then it's vicious cycle, that never stops, I cannot discipline him because he makes me feel horrible. Wow, what am I accomplishing here, other than feeding fuel to the fire. Thats why I say I created this monster. Ouch as a parent this hurts because i don't know what to do. Thanks again !Nancy g :His outburst were all day on daytrana, thats why we switched to vyvanse. He would cry if you said his name. It was horrible. How long do you give the meds to work before switching again? A few small differences on vyvanse but his behavior is worse, and right now I am having a hard time dealing with it , it's that. Telling me he wants to kill me, and his brother. Awful. I didn;t give him his med this morning to see if I notice any difference. Winter break anyways, so we won't be affecting school. Which his teacher is saying "no difference at school". But I think this is partially because she thinks something else is wrong. IE: learning problem, processing problem, etc.. So well see I guess any suggestions? THANKS!Breen_col: Thank you so much for your post. It really means alot to me to hear these things. I know the positive will outweigh the negatives, it just seems like for my son its taking so lone for him to get there. I appreciate all the points and study tips. We actually do the flash cards, when he wants to. We do alot on his terms which is fine for me, whatever helps him get through the day. It is just so frustrating sometimes. I almost feel as if he thinks he can control me, and everyone in this home. Wednesday, he was so nasty to me, I just sat on the floor and cried, because I just didn't know what to do. Some days he just flips this house upside down, and it's so hard on everyone. Thats what I have the biggest issue with. School doesn't see this vindictive behavior. Only home. I try new approaches nothing works. We are trying time out again for everything..... and I told my husband , gosh he will be in time out all day. He gets rewarded for everything he does, of course i loose my cool sometimes, but overall he has a fabulous life. He never, ever does without. But I often wonder if I created this monster, because I can be such a pushover. My husband has add, my son has combined type, and my youngest son who is 3 has sensory integration disorder, and is developmentally delayed. So I am a little overwhelmed at the moment. At the end of the beginning of the day and the end of the day I am his biggest advocate. This I know, I just had hoped his frustration and moodiness would have gotten better on the meds, due to the impulsiveness. But so far, not so good. Thanks again for your post, again keep in touch. It sounds like you have done a very good thing for yourself, GOOD FOR YOU! I always knew my children were as we like to say it "just wired a little different". But you crossed yours in a way to do wonderful things for yourself, so my hats off to you. Thanks again.
My son:
Were his emotional outbursts when he was on the Daytrana or at the end of the day as it left his system (rebound)? We find Kyle is much more emotional at that time and just strive to make that time period low stress. Just playing with his toys or looking at books - no video games or anything that gets him too frustrated. He is back to his old self by bedtime.
I also found that in the first month or so of Daytrana that he was very hard on himself. I was very upset, but that phase did pass pretty quickly.
Hang in there! Things may very well smooth themselves out.
I'm 35 and have ADHDI and thought I might be able to help if you hear
my past experiences and thoughts. I'm taking the same drug as your son
and, it is helping me allot. I did have some strange fits of anger the first
month but it's leveled out since. I can tell you I had allot of anger as a kid
and I was not on any meds. The trick is understanding what he is going
through. I bet he lets things build up and up until he explodes and
everyone around is like oh my God, what was that. I can relate, that anger
never goes away and I still hold it all in. Do not let anyone tell him he him
he's stupid or worthless because that only hurts him. My father was awful,
awful verbally abusive and physically until the age of 15. I had an extreme
case, I hated my father and the last time he was going to beat me up I
told him I was going to kill him. He never laid another hand on me and
my mom decided to leave him. She was smart because I really was going
to do it. Your son is smart and I'm sure is really sweet and he will do
things nobody will understand but I'm sure he has a reason. The trick is
to not make him feel weird or different and act like things are normal and
keep mean people away from him he doesn't need that, he probably gets
picked on at school. My grades were very poor as growing up and my
Dad said I would be a trash man, well I had the last laugh. I'm the first
student from Missouri to have a show at the photography hall of fame my
senior year of college, and I'm currently going to be published nationally
by Adobe.com and in some magazines. So there is allot of hope. I still
can not remember half of the things people say and no drug helps with
that, they only help me stay focused somewhat. I have a digital recorder
with me all the time at work and record meetings, and save those digital
files on my computer so I can recall what was said anytime. Your son
needs to record the teacher instead of writing notes. If he trys to take
notes during class it's probably hard for him to keep track of what is said
because he hears every pen click, or noise in class and his notes will not
make sense to him when he gets home. He should listen to his teacher
after class on the recorder or at night in a quiet place where he has no
noise. He should write notes on flash cards and not a piece of paper, that
way he can concentrate on that one thing and not be distracted by other
words. Try this, if you he needs to learn a new word or subject write the
word on one side of the flash card and the definition on the other side.
Hold that card up and look at that word and have him try to recall the
definition. If he can't recall it, flip the card over read the the definition,
and go to the next card. What you will find out is your son has an
amazing ability to remember and recall if he studies in this manner. Now
his disability can become a benefit later in life, he just has to find that
one talent. Mine is creative design and web programming, I graduated
with my bachelors degree in 2000 and it took me 7 years, lol. I'm
successful now but still space out all the time. His brain thinks in several
dimensions unlike anyone else, I bet he is very intelligent. He will be ok,
the trick is to not let him get depressed or upset and be supportive in
every-way and it sounds like your doing a great job. Believe me having
ADHD is tough because the rest of the world wants us to be like them and
it will never happen. Your son will find his way and he's lucky to have you,
stay supportive and try my study techniques they really work. Find out
what his talents are because he has allot to offer this world. Tell him
about me and that I said stay the course though high school. You will find
those people very stupid and mean, but you will be out soon and never
see them again. Life holds great things to come and someday soon you
will be discovered and appreciated for who you are and for your God
given talents and do not let anyone tell you different. Your disability can
be an advantage later in life, it is for me :)I just read your last post and would say a higher dose will not help and may
cause other issues. We are very sensitive people, and that anger and
outbursts are hurt feelings surfacing that we hold inside and no drug helps,
trust me absolutely not. I stayed away from as many people as I could when I
was young and when I was angry I would ride my bike for miles and miles
and it was great relaxation. I would play video games at least 40 hours a
week or more and found that relaxing. They have found that kids that played
allot of video games are better in the workforce later in life and are good at
making fast good decisions. Today I go to the gym and ride my bike to de-
stress.
Ok so we did the patch 10mg, for a week, doc said to switch it because she thought it wasn;t working for us. So now we are on vyvanse 30mg. Started it on Saturday, which by the way was fabulous, but every since then he has been vindictive, angrier and just flat out nasty to everyone in this house. I cannot take this anymore. I want my sweet baby back, so he can feel better about himself. Last night when he laid down he said "he had let me down and he hated himself" so I asked him what he was talking about and he said he didn't clean up his mess he made, and I was heartbroken that he said this, but I just told him I loved him and tomorrow was a new day, and that it would be OK if he cleaned it up today. I can't stand hearing him say this stuff anymore, he is so hard on himself. The teacher also said no difference yet, so now it's like what to do? I'm so frustrated, because the doc says we should see immediate results and so far nothing. Do we up the meds or switch again? The positive to vyvanse is he's eating very well, and no troubles falling asleep. HELP!!!! How long do I wait and what do i DO?
It sounds like Vyvanse is not the med for him. I am curious why the Psych did not raise the Daytrana dose, or switch to a med in the same family instead of going to a much higher dose of an entirely different med? You should see almost immediate results, but not necessarily, it can take up to a week or so to work out the kinks.
I would stop the Vyvanse, and set an appt with the Psych.
Thanks, we go to see him today, but he doesn't do the meds his ped does. But The patch was making him very emotional the first couple of days, then angry until we stopped again. Do you think this is all because he is not on the right doses? Maybe it's like messin with his head because it's a teaser or something, like ok we get the meds but it's not enough, we need more. Maybe it's like a warning sign. I still have some of the patches here, can you cut them? To make 15 mg? I hope this makes sence, it's kinda random I know. Thanks edbson.[QUOTE=my son,my angel]Thanks, we go to see him today, but he doesn't do the meds his ped does. But The patch was making him very emotional the first couple of days, then angry until we stopped again. Do you think this is all because he is not on the right doses? Maybe it's like messin with his head because it's a teaser or something, like ok we get the meds but it's not enough, we need more. Maybe it's like a warning sign. I still have some of the patches here, can you cut them? To make 15 mg? I hope this makes sence, it's kinda random I know. Thanks edbson.[/QUOTE]
Tha patch comes in 15mg doses
I think until you find the right meds/dose he is going to have problems. I would also ask the Psychiatrist to handle the meds, and not the ped.
I thought about doing that, but until he recommends a psych in my network, i am screwed, because we paid out of pocket to get him tested, because we couldn't find a doc we liked. So if I have him do the meds he will probably charge us, and I can't afford that right now, I wonder if we should up the dose on the vyvanse though, because he is still the same behavior wise as he was before taking any meds. Really still a stinker. So maybe he wasn't on a high enough dose? What you think about that? He hasn't been emotional at all, just angry which he has been for years, so huh? Thanks guys!!!