Lost all patience--need to vent | ADHD Information

Just need to vent but any possible advice would be helpful. I am at the end of my patience with my recently dx 5 yr old ds! We are not happy w/his ped so have an appt w/Psychologist/Psychiatrist combo on Jan 16 but in the mean time, I'm losing it! We only have 5 10mg Daytrana patches left, which don't seem to be doing anything for him. We thought he was at least doing well at school, but now teacher says that she really only gets a couple good hours in the afternoon, so I am not going to bother refilling the patch. His behavior is horrible! Sassy, bossy, mean to me, doesn't listen and intentionally irritates everyone in our house. I can't trust him alone for 2 min w/his 19 mo old brother cause he does things to make him cry. This morning they were both buckled in the car while I ran back inside quick and came out to him grabbing (scratching) on his brothers face, with is brother screaming! I lost it! I've tried what Diane V suggested, sending him to his room (or dragging him there) when he's mean or naughty for a cooling off period but that doesn't work, he literally follows me out of his room beating on me. He's a big kid for his age, so I have a hard time physically w/him. I have absolutely no control w/him, DH has some but not much. I just feel like the Jan 16 appt can't come soon enough. When I drop him off at school, he's in time out before I even get out of the building! They play in the gym for about 10 min after we get there and he can't even handle 10 min w/o hurting another kid. It breaks my heart that he acts this way cause he knows it's wrong and feels bad but still does it. Lately it seems like there's less remorse, which worries me. Sorry for the long vent, but I know others probably have felt the same way and I need some encouragement, I'm starting to feel depressed and I've never been one to be depressed.

Wow, you sound just like me! I have had many of "those days" dealing with my 6 year old son. We know our sweet little boys are in there somewhere, but when they are kicking and hitting and saying awful things to us, it hurts (emotionally and physically) and is so frustrating and discouraging! I know it's rough, but hang in there! YOU ARE NOT ALONE!

Our doctor informed us that it might take some time to find just the right medication at just the right dosage. She let us know that some meds might not work at all, others might make things worse, etc. But when we find the right med, at the right dosage, things will be great. He was recently diagnosed in November. We started him off on Vyvanse 30 mg, which worked good for less than a week, then started wearing off around lunch time and he was back in the principal's office on a daily basis (but only in the afternoons). So we doubled his dose and so far so good. He is now on a 50 mg dose and it seems to be lasting until after he gets home from school now. Trial and error will find us the right medication that works best for him. Every child is different.

As for discipline...we've tried EVERYTHING. Spanking, talking and not spanking, time outs. But for now, I make my son get a grocery sack and put in 10 of his hot wheels cars (or other small toys...I tell him to get his favorites). Then we tie the bag and I make him put it in the garbage. This is working well for him because it just KILLS him to have to throw his favorite toys away. Of course, when he's not looking, I get them out of the trash and put them away in my closet. Later on I may use them as a "reward" for good behavior, or maybe donate them to another child.

I hope my advice has helped a little. And I know, I've had days exactly like the one you were venting about and I thought I might have a nervous breakdown before it was over! But I survived and so will you. Good luck at the appt in January.

[QUOTE=epokey]We've done 15mg patch and he gets way too emotional so that's why we're at 10mg. Although, after reading many threads on this site, I'm beginning to wonder if a short-acting dose right away in the morning would help things? Unfortunately, our ped doc isn't very helpful and I don't have a lot of faith in him so I'm undecided if we even call him to ask his opinion. The short of the ped situation is that we started on Adderall XR and had a really rough trip, after about a week ds got very angry and mean (way worse than usual). Switched to patch and when it was decided to come back down from 15mg to 10mg, he suggested "giving up for a while" if that didn't work. I didn't feel that was a good response from a Doc that we seeked out for help, which is why we are seeking help from the psychologist/psychiatrist combo. [/QUOTE]

Same thing happens to my son when he goes up from 15 mg to 20 mg. Interestingly, he tolerates 20 mg. of short-acting really well. Just goes to show that the delivery system makes a big difference.

Yeah, giving it up for a while doesn't seem like good professional advice when you are dealing with ADHD. I would definitely go with the psychs. Just FYI -- we had one psychiatrist who wouldn't let us do the short-acting with the patch. The one we see now said that it was no problem and that they do it all the time. He is employed by a large hospital, so my guess is, he's got some experience with it. Luckily I had the knowledge from this board to even ask if we could do it. It made a really big difference for us, except for when we forget it .

Oh -- could you ask the ped for a refill until you see the other doc and then put the patch on as soon as you wake up? Do you think your ped would give you a short-acting with the patch just to get you through the next few weeks? Another idea -- since next week is break, what if you asked the ped to just do short-acting Ritalin? You could give it to him twice or even three times/day and watch his reaction. If he gives you enough for 30 mg/day, you should be covered. You can start with 10 mg and then if he needs more, go up to 15 by cutting one (they are scored). Then you can watch for rebound, too. Just an idea.
Joy239434.5053472222After reading your post I am very tempted to call Ped and get a refill of the patch and ask about a short acting form to help mornings. DH was very insistent that our child would NOT be on Ritalin when this whole thing started, due to all of the negative things he's heard about it, which is why I'm wondering if maybe that's why that drug has not been suggested by the ped. I think I'll chat w/DH about this option and possible call the ped. Trying something different is better than what we're going thru now, even if it's not good, at least we will have tried it & know. Right now I feel like we've hit such a brick wall with no where to go until Jan 16. We do put the patch on at 7am so I'm surprised that mornings are so bad, but I guess his system isn't taking it in as quickly as it should. [QUOTE=epokey]After reading your post I am very tempted to call Ped and get a refill of the patch and ask about a short acting form to help mornings. DH was very insistent that our child would NOT be on Ritalin when this whole thing started, due to all of the negative things he's heard about it, which is why I'm wondering if maybe that's why that drug has not been suggested by the ped. I think I'll chat w/DH about this option and possible call the ped. Trying something different is better than what we're going thru now, even if it's not good, at least we will have tried it & know. Right now I feel like we've hit such a brick wall with no where to go until Jan 16. We do put the patch on at 7am so I'm surprised that mornings are so bad, but I guess his system isn't taking it in as quickly as it should.[/QUOTE]

The patch can take up to 3 hours to get going -- that's how long it is for my son, and if you look at the insert, that's the time they give as well somewhere in all of that fine print. The patch is methylphenidate, which is the exact same med as Ritalin. Very well researched, 50-year-old medication. (I sound like a broken record, because I am always saying the same thing). Tell your husband it's methylphenidate if he doesn't like the sound of Ritalin

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Joy2: Thank you so much for your advice, you've helped more than you know. I am just starting to learn that there are 3 different "med group's" out there, this was also something that wasn't even explained by our ped. It makes sense that if Daytrana is working (just taking longer) that another form within the same group could possibly help in the interrum. Dumb question: if it takes up to 3 hrs to start working, is that 3 hrs included in the "9hr" duration of the patch? Or, is the patch starting to wear off after that 9hrs and that's why we don't feel any relief at home? We usually take the patch off about 5:30, but I feel it's already wearing out of his system by then since we don't notice any differences in the evening. The three hours counts as the 9 you can leave it, unfortunately. We didnt get three hours afetr it came off either, maybe 1 1/2.I'm almost wondering if it's wearing off by the time he gets home, even though he hasn't taken it off. Putting it on at 7am, 9hrs carries until 4:00, we take it off at 5:30. Is it possible it's already starting to wear off or gone by 5:30? I have a feeling that's our problem in the evening, meds are out of his system & possibly some rebound??You can tell I am sitting at the computer today

. I think that the time is different for each kid depending on how he absorbs it and then how he metabolizes it. I am not a doctor - I am just reasoning this out based on what I know and have seen with my son.

We actually leave the patch on longer than we should because it is still working for our son into the evening. We just had to figure out the latest we could leave it on and still get good sleep. We learned this weekend that "all night" is not the correct answer

. Oops.

But I digress .... My guess is that you may be just a mg or two below the optimal level. The question is, how to up it without resorting to 20 mgs? Some people have cut patches, others have warned that this isn't good because you never know how much actual med is on each part of the patch. If the psych is good, s/he will have other suggestions, I'm sure. But to get through the next weeks, short-acting might help a lot. I personally like short-acting only because you can really see it work and get the right dose exactly, but it is not practical for school days.
I agree with Joy, you nreed to get through until you see the psych, Also if you use the short acting you can wait and put that patch on right before you walk out the door because you've got 4 hours coverage with your short acting. Maye you'll get more coverage later?

All great suggestions, thank you so much!

DH & I will be discussing this & hopefully gain some more help until we see the psych. I knew this board would be full of helpful info!

I lost it yesterday morning, DD would NOT get dressed for school, KNEW i had to pick up her friend on the way, and made everyone late. So I took one gift out from under the tree, for every time she talked back. After 10 times there were no more gifts for her.

Later in the afternoon, after she did her homework without a fuss, I put 2 back, and this morning she got dressed with no issues, so 2 more went back. At this rate they will all be back by the end of the week.

Worked for me.

We call it "Groundhog's Day" -- same idea

. These kids try every last bit of your patience, unlike anyone else on earth, I think. Behavioral methods are really tough because they are so impulsive and wacky and out-of-control when they get mad. The ONLY thing that stops my son (behaviorally) is -- no more Gameboy today, no more tomorrow, etc.

The good news is, when the meds are correct, life works pretty well. We do 20 mg of short-acting Ritalin + 15 mg. Daytrana patch, because the patch takes so long to kick in. This morning, I forgot the 20 mg. until after 8 -- big mistake. I had to physically dress my 8-year-old for school!! He was unable to focus on anything, and he was irate that I wouldn't let him do what he wanted to do (keep eating at 8:40 a.m.)! Contrast that with 20 mg. at 7 a.m. -- he gets up, eats, gets dressed, plays, goes to school, and usually does really well in the morning. It's amazing what the timing and dosage of the meds do for family life.

You might want to try two patches for a day and see what happens. Put them on as soon as you get up in the morning, even if he is still asleep. 20 mg. might be too much, but you can see how he reacts and mess with the dosage from there.

Joy239434.4649652778

My life in your words...Our ds is six, first grade, and dx in March of this year. As I mentioned before, our life in your words...

I tell you, there is no full proof method. We do the do-over method and it works a lot. We drag him/ask him to go to his room and time outs...That is the frustrating part of what we are dealing with. There is no ONE method that works. We have to make a list, mentally, of what methods could work for that moment and keep them near the front of our brain for those 'special moments' can appear at any given moment (and anywhere). Something dh and I have started is to look at one another and say "50 first dates.." Because each day is new for our ds, or so it seems. We repeat ourselves every single day, the rules and the routines that we do. Simple little things that end up becoming mountains...but to remedy that at least a little, when we say "50 first dates" it reminds us that "Okay, he's not the same as other kids, he needs a little extra help". It works for us, may sound silly to you but that's okay! If you haven't seen the movie, go rent it. At least that will give you a good laugh and then maybe apply it like we do. It puts humor into the things that should remain minor. Our frustrations tend to build until that one little tiny thing happens and we're on that kid like white on rice!

Your child definitely needs to understand that hitting is completely unacceptable, though. How you teach them that, I'm not sure. DH had our child bang on a wooden chair for quite a while (unsure of amt of time)... He said "You like hitting, you can hit this chair any time you want, but hands stay off of people unless you're hugging!" It worked for us. I also have a two year old son and 13 year old step son. He does not hit them. However, he'll grab their feet while they're running. Finaly, the older brother repaid him and we've not had trouble with that since. As for his lashing out, our ds does that as well. HOWEVER, I have lost my cool on occasion and had to aplogize for lashing out. You reap what you sew, kind of thing. Children do mimick (spelling?) what they see. Find ways for you to cope during the heightened moments, because he's watching you. You may very well be contributing to some of the 'not so good' moments. None of us are perfect, not even Moms and Dads. Remind your child of that, but let him know what makes it better is to see the mistake and learn from it.

The meds, I don't have much advice for you on. I'm learing with you. But this site is full of those who have 'been there, done that', so you have found a good resource.

Pray, if you're a Christian. Prayer helps me and dh, especially on the days where it seems there are NO answers.

Best of luck to you all!

He's never been one to get upset with something being taken away, he always just finds something else to play with or focus on, but at this point I'll try anything! I did threaten that this morning, saying that for how naughty he was that I should just take away his presents from under the tree. Maybe we'll try it tonight.We've done 15mg patch and he gets way too emotional so that's why we're at 10mg. Although, after reading many threads on this site, I'm beginning to wonder if a short-acting dose right away in the morning would help things? Unfortunately, our ped doc isn't very helpful and I don't have a lot of faith in him so I'm undecided if we even call him to ask his opinion. The short of the ped situation is that we started on Adderall XR and had a really rough trip, after about a week ds got very angry and mean (way worse than usual). Switched to patch and when it was decided to come back down from 15mg to 10mg, he suggested "giving up for a while" if that didn't work. I didn't feel that was a good response from a Doc that we seeked out for help, which is why we are seeking help from the psychologist/psychiatrist combo.