losing the bond with my 8yr old | ADHD Information

I will be the first to admit that I need to work on the "no arguing" part, I've been able (only a few times) to just say something once & keep my mouth shut & ignore the behavior.  But, how do you handle a situation that requires compliance in a timely fashion?  For example, getting boots/hat/coat on to leave in the morning, or coming to the table for dinner cause it's time to eat (and I've already asked 5 times) & everyone else is ready?  My husband says lately (to go along with the "pick your battles" theory) that maybe we shouldn't force him to the table at dinner time to avoid the conflict it sometimes causes.  Eating dinner as a family is something that we've both held very important as far as morals & values that we want to pass on, if we allow him to go against that, what is he learning?  In my mind he's learning that if he argues & causes enough trouble, that he won't have to follow rules.  I could be wrong, however, because I am still learning about the mind of an ADHD child, maybe that's not at all what he would get out of it, any thoughts?

I agree with you epokey! I have one of these at home!

Someone with ADHD likes to argue...it gets them going and I think in some, it may actually feel like an adrenaline(sp?) rush. The trick is, easier said than done...not to react to them. Instead of screaming try talking really softly and do the take a deep breath and count to 10.

My dd, who's 6 and on 27 mg concerta, LOVVVVVVVEEEESSS to argue. And majority of the time, it's over nothing at all. A couple things to try...when it gets really bad and you want to blow your top...stop and give him a hug. You can not imagine how a hug defuses a situation. The first time, I would ask him, "Can I just have a hug from you?" It works with my daughter...because we are both in a better state of mind after the hug I can say "Look...I don't want to fight with you. I love you." And that helps...

Vickie's suggestion, which I read a post from her on this board and I did it...it WORKS! Just say no to arguing. "Go to your room when you calm down you can have my full attention."

 

My love and prayers are with you! It's hard and you're not alone!

Kim

Picking your battles just means deal with one behavior at a time. So, getting out the door for school is PRIORITY.  That is a battle you must have. But it is not a battle, there is no debating, we are leaving at such and such a time, if you're not dressed, go in your pajamas......walk away.....bet he wont do it more than once if you take him to school in his pajamas. There were time last year I literally DRAGGED my then 4 year old into the car screaming because she didnt like the shirt she had on...............tough, next time pick something sooner. Once I did this she knew I would then pick the shirt (usually something she hated) put it on her myself and put her in the car. After that she'd get dressed in a hurry just to wear what she wanted. find their hook and use it. If he doesnt join the rest of you for dinner, dinner is over no dessert, kitchens closed when we're done. He wont starve ONE night and he wont do it again. It sounds "hard ass", but I prefer to use direct and to the point . So picking your battles doesnt mean letting him do whatever he wants, just decide which things need to be addressed first and lay down the law, then no debating. If you decide he he cant watch tv unless he picks up his toys, end of dicusssion. If he yells and fights, he goes to be alone until he is calm, THEN he picks up the toys. If bedtime rolls around he he never got tv, OH WELL, go to bed without it. Dont keep reminding him set a limit and a consequence then drop it. Little reminders are ok, like, "oh look it's almost 7:00 and the Legos are not in their tub yet"..............then walk away.

Not fighting is the HARDEST part...............but it works. Even if you have to walk him to his room 50 times, when he knows you wont cave and you wont fight and get upset, he'll give up.................it wont happen immediately, but it WILL happen. It will end up being less stress and work for you in the long run, more work at first, but it will work.

Having the "fun" part of each day to do at least one thing together he likes is a GREAT compliment to this. Again, dirty laundry on the floor, maybe let it go, forgot to wipe his feet or hang up his coat, save that one until next month......you get the picture

Diane V39444.636712963Great suggestions, it's just so hard!!  He HAS gone w/o dinner a few nights and to bed at 7:00 one night due to arguing & serious screaming & fighting.  For me lately absolutely everything is a battle so I'm feeling like no matter which one I pick (or don't) it's a battle.  Somewhere along the line his respect for me as the "mommy" or the "boss" has flown the coupe and I can't figure out how to get it back, am hoping our psych appt will help that.  Oh and as far as taking him to school in his pajamas...how about underwear!  We live in MN and I can't very well take him out in 10 degree weather in just his underwear, plus I'm pretty sure the school would frown upon that.  He sat in his underwear the other morning for 20 min!!  Pajamas came off but nothing else went on...until of course I yelled.  Just had to share that.. I wouldnt yell, but I would physically dress him myself (without talking), and just take him. I totally hear you. Thats why you have to let some stuff go, find some fun stuff and diffuse the pwer struggle. It is VERY, VERY hard, I am living this life too. I got all my advice froma behaviorist who works with autistic children. It just works.

After reading these posts which I see my gdd in a lot of them with defiance and

argumentive.....I think 8 is a very difficult age.....school and home.... both with

trying to get a child to respect authority.

 

This is what finally lead us to go the medication route....18 mg. of concerta is working like she is a different child...less arguments more cooperation......ex.

She decided to clean out toy box and get rid of toys without being told to do it.

New toys for Xmas you know...

All by herself, and she decided to throw what she wanted away.....I was so proud of this accomplishment....this may not seem like much but for me it was...

Not hounding her to do it was wonderful....she took the lead. For the first time.

Medication for her help tremendously....Two weeks and starting the third.

Here's some more ideas to maybe help? (I hope)

My dd has problems too getting her out of the house. Simple stragedy to
start...getting everything, I do mean everything, ready for him and
yourself prior the night before. I pack lunches, backpacks and we choose
cloths so they are laid out for her. Mornings go the same exact way every
day...get up and get dressed...no breakfast until you're dressed. If she
fights me I tell her, "I am leaving in 10 minutes...dressed or not dressed."

If he's not dressed tell him put on your coat, put his cloths in a bag and
go. (Make sure the car is warm and grab him some brakfast to go.) Get
him in the car...and tell him "Get dressed or you go to school in your
underwear." If he doesn't comply...hand him the bag of cloths and his
breakfast in the bag...out with him. He'll get dressed in school and realize
mom's not messing around with this anymore. It may take a few days but
he'll get it...each day should get easier.

The schedule works...every day is the same with us. The consistancy
makes it easier on them because they know whats coming and even if
they have a freak out and don't comply...the schedule continues without
them and then they learn...if I do this, then this will happen.

You make the choice, which is the hardest and most crutial part of raising
a strong willed child...don't fight. When you fight and loose your
temper...he gets control. Much easier said than done...I know. But once
you don't react to him...you'll see what I mean. He'll yell louder and be
even more difiant until he realizes you're not going to loose it...you're in
control. And remember to breath...deep breaths help!

YOU CAN DO THIS!!!We fight the compliance battles here too, especially the situations where
something has to happen in a timely fashion. I have been told by a
psychologist to just make him do it, with as little emotion as possible on
my part. To cut down the battles, he sleeps in clean school clothes, but he
now refuses to put on a coat or shoes and socks, so for the last month or
so, every morning I drag him screaming out the door barefoot and
jacketless. (Sacramento, not exactly Minnesota) He puts them on in the
lobby of his school, under threat of spanking. (I know, I know, but that is
the only way he will do it, and he will kick me in the teeth if I try to put
his socks on)(I used to be able to sit on him and do it, but now he is too
big) For a little while having to do it in front of his peers was enough
incentive, but now that doesn't work anymore. I first typed "he doesn't
care about that anymore", but I know that isn't correct. He just gets too
wound up to think straight. I believe in natural consequences, but it never
has worked for us! I feel like there is anxiety under all of it, of course, and
maybe that is where he needs the most help right now. We are on the
second month of adding Tenex to his Adderall regimen, and if there is no
improvement his psychiatrist is going to suggest something like Zoloft, I
think. I would have never thought that I would consider something like
that, but I feel like our relationship is being destroyed. I just can't reach
him.

I haven't wanted to admit this myself, but I too am having difficulty keeping a bond with my child and I can feel him pulling away from me as well. And honestly I can't blame him. I have been hard to deal with the past month. I do believe I am depressed. Whether it is situational or clinical I don't know. I do have a history of depression so it would not surprise me. I snap easily. I have to actually MAKE myself be nice to him. I can go all day and just lose it on something so simple as him telling me he doesn't want to eat what I made for dinner, even though there have been many worse offenses.

He has been off medication for about three weeks now and I feel like someone kidnapped my child. There is no surefire why of knowing whether a med helps or not until you take them off of it! I feel like I am dealing with a mentally challenged child that doesn't understand a word I say. He literally jumps and bounces from the moment he wakes until the moment he goes to bed at night. it's just a fight all day and all night and frankly I can't take it and my support system is cracking under the pressure as well.

We had a family get together for my Grandmothers birthday today, The guests were there no more than 45 minutes. When my son's father came to pick him up the entire room literally sighed with relief. I heard my aunt even say, "Thank God he's finally here!" It's hard to hear it, but it's also understandable. That kid grates on your nerves so terribly that no one can't stand him anymore. Even my Mom trying to be as patient as she can be has been fussing at him, "Will you just get out of my face and leave me alone." I know it isn't good for him to see how we can't tolerate him, but it's a vicous cycle really. He's a nightmare, we react and so on and so forth. What do you all do when you feel like you just can't go one more day? I'm really fearing I can't handle him much longer. He's 7 now and he has an appointment to see the pyschiatrist on the 15th.

LonerGirl, If you think you are suffering from depression, please get some help! I'm no expert, but I'm sure that by taking that step to help yourself, you will help your child too. It sounds like your son's medication is not working for him. Can you call the psychiatrist before the 15th to ask about trying something different?

As far as losing the bond, maybe I'm in no position to give advice. My daughter has inattentive type and really doesn't have the behavior issues that make you lose your mind. Her older brother though has been very challenging at times, although he does not have ADHD; I often relate what I read on this board more to him than to my daughter who has ADHD. He is very intense, very bright and likes to be in control. At times I have felt like the bond was really strained. Things that I have found helped: Try to find something, anything positive that you can praise him for, as much as possible, as many times as possible during the day. These kids get so much criticism and negative comments. They need lots and lots of positive, even if it is for the tiniest positive thing. Make sure they know that they have your unconditional love (even though you may be having a hard time feeling it at the moment, it's there inside somewhere...) Try to find something, anything that you can enjoy doing with your child, even for five minutes: reading a cartoon, looking at a book about insects or cars, throwing a ball back and forth, coloring. Some small thing that you can enjoy together. When all else fails, when your sense of humor has totally gone out the window, try to find some humor in the situation. One time (a long time ago, since my son is now 15), when I was at my wits' end, and my son was driving me absolutely nuts, and I felt like screaming, I told him that I was going to peel him like a banana and feed him to a gorilla. That made us both laugh and the tension was gone and I was able to get him to cooperate.

I too know exactly where you are and sometimes I wonder if I've damaged my son and our relationship forever. It's tough, there's now two ways about it. But, one think I keep in mind, our pediatrician said to me when I asked him about the constant talking, especially through TV shows or movies, is that my son is trying, in his own way, to stay engaged in the activity. They may argue and get mouthy because they are frustrated that they didn't follow what just happened. The no yelling/arguing is a great thing if you can do it. Some days I am a success, some days...not so much. As far as the dinner thing, proceed on with dinner as if you are all at the table, and dinner is over when everyone at the table is done eating. It won't take long for your child to realize that you are not buying into this manipulation, an he'll be hungry. Family dinner has always been very important in our home as well, but with one simple rule. You eat what is served when it is served, or you go hungry. Your choice. I say the meds may not be right for him also do you see a psychologist or psychiatrist?  Therapy and a good behavior plan is what is needed to re-connect and I wish you the best and I hear you.  I find myself saying many times over thank goodness for only one. You do not become immune to meds, you just usually need a dose adjustment. Strat is weight dependent, and the dose is very strict....and would need to be adjusted if there was a weight gain/loss. WHY was the Vyvanse started at 50? there is a lower dose. Are you usuing a ped? or a Psych for meds.

We were at a similar place with the youngest a few years ago. We were fighting over everything and had to change our tactics. I would not argue (very difficult for me) with her and calmly tell her that when she could get herself calmed down I would help her solve the problem she was having. Then when she calmed down, I was generous with the praise (for any slight improvement). We would solve the problem and move on. Without me yelling back and escallating things and using th praise to let her know she had value the arguements got better. I also took extra time and played games (her favorites) and did other things she liked to improve the bond that had weakend from the earlier conficts.

We were working to improve things at school at the same time. Later we completed the diagnistic process and started meds. Things are really good with her now.

My son has been diagnosed with ADHD since the age of 5 now he is 8 he has been on several medications mainly Strattera and Concerta now his Dr. thinks he may have become immunte to those meds because of his behavioral change so therefore put him on 50mg of Vyvanse ( the guiena pig syndrome ) the Vyvanse seemed to be doing great like the first week ( think he still had his other meds in system ) but now he is way to emotional very ARGUMENTIVE and very DISRESPECTFUL he has an appt. to see a psyh. versus his ped but thats not till 2/11/07 ( still some time away ) he has an appt. tonight with ped. but that's just to do the follow up with the Vyvanse and I really don't want to do a med change before 2/11. Everyday it gets worse with him and I it's like we really don't like each other I have tried everything in the book and my patience has run out even to the point where and I feel horrible for saying this but to the point where if I had known then what I know now I don't think I would of ever had a child. School is stressing every day we can't go one day without a problem thank god he has a good understanding teacher however the principal isnt very understanding / his teacher is starting a new "token" program with him in school much like the marble system so hopefully that may shed some hope for us there but I don't count on it. ISSUES AT HOME are far worse these days he is constantly disrespecting me he tells me no tells me he hates me, doesn't like me anymore, refuses to get dressed, shower, brush teeth just about anything I ask him to do is an argument. My husband isn't much help he disrespects him to. I know they say children model there parents behavior and I don't if were battling so much because I lose it and go off on him he just pushes and pushes and pushes till I cant deal with it and I feel he does it intentially. Like this morning I have to meet the sitter here at work he's making me late, crying, throwing a fit, not doing what he's told to do so I lost it I yelled at him and let everything out in the car on the way to work about how bad he is being all week during Christmas break there has been a daily argument with him nothing I do or say phases him anymore I feel like I have totally lost control of the situation and the bond with my child is slipping away each day I feel it hard to get close to him anymore and vice versa with him am I setting him up to be a failure in the future? Is it to late to get that bond back now? How do I as a mother learn to love him with all my heart when all he does is break it? I know this is hard to say because he's my child but I can't help feeling this way with him it's like it's never ending, and no hopes of it getting better.That's what I meant on the weight adjustment the ped thought he may of needed his concerta uped he was on 54 i believe in concerta versus upping the concerta he wanted to try the Vyvanse and since he was on 54 concerta they put him at 50 on the Vyvanse yes it is his ped. but as i stated before the psych visit isn't until 2/11/08.Concerta is not dosed by weight, Straterra is. You need a Psych to manage meds, not a ped. 50 mgs Vynvanse is in no way comparable to 54 mgs Concerta. my son was also on Strattera 25mg along with the Concerta 54mg so yes the weight was an issue - im not a dr. so i depend on there information of what they tell me that is why i am taking him to see a psych wish it could be sooner but cant get him in any sooner then 2/11/08 so i will have to wait in the mean time im going crazy.

I understand you completely. Sometimes it feels like all we do is yell and fight. It's a lost battle, right?  I don't have any sure fire ways to get you guys back on track but I do know this, your boy loves you. He is fighting a battle within himself and he's not old enough to truly understand it, relate it, explain it and definitely not to deal with it! It's as tough on them as it is on us, although I know it doesn't seem to bother them. It does, how can it not.

My first suggestion is to do what you're already scheduled to do, get him 'lined out' with his meds. Get him back on track there. Explain to him what is going on and why he's going to a new doctor. They have a right to understand where they're going and why.

Second, find some common ground with him. One thing our 6 year old ADHDer loves to do with me is cook/bake. I include him, especially on our really rough days. It mellows him out, he's busy with me (not in trouble) and it's a good bonding experience. Dad plays cars with him, the boy loves cars. We play board games some times. He loves art, so when we're busy we'll say "Oh, you know what? It's grandma's birthday tomorrow you want to make her a card for me?" He enjoys that stuff... It's hard work to keep them busy, but it's GOOD hard work. Not the BAD hard work of the constant fighting and hurting one another. (which ultimately leads no where! I've been where you are and still struggle as well, you are not alone)

Last, end your nights happy. whatever it takes. Tuck him in with dry eyes and a content mind on your behalf. Whether it's reading to him, saying prayers, discussing what you'll do the next day, a snuggle session  (good for BOTH of you)... If you have fought that night, make sure and make ammends with one another. It's good for your son to see you're not perfect but that you CAN and WILL apologize for your shortcomings. He's not alone in his imperfectness. (Not sure if that's a word!)  Then talk about how you guys can make it better. Talk about 'do-overs'.  Everyone needs those.

Hope this helps at least a little.