Will this get better?!?! | ADHD Information

With no formal testing or evaluations you have NO idea what you are dealing with. You need a full comprehensive Psych eval done, preferrably by a Neuropsycholigst to know.Bloodwork, EKG's, and EG;s should be done before meds are used. To test for underlying causes and heart issues. You state in your siggy that he has ADHD "mixed', there is no such thing. it is Innattentive, hyperactive, or combined.

Daytrana takes 2 hours to start working, and 1 day is not enough of a trial of ANY med to see what it will do. DD never had tics with Daytrana, she used it for almost 2 years with no problems whatsoever.

Focalin, adderall, and daytrana are 3 entirely differnt meds, and it would take a trial of a week or more to get results from any of them.

I'm new to this board, but am thoroughly appreciative of the collective
experience I have found here! I hate that there are so many of us, but am
thrilled to turn to an understanding group!

I have a 6 year old son who is about to drive DH and I out of our minds.
Briefly, no official diagnosis through testing but enough personal and
professional experience to know. We tried Focalin XR prior to school in
July and saw tremendous increase in independent play (anything over 2
minutes was notable!) Less impulsiveness and hyperactive behavior.
Sadly, the rebound was more than we could take. Then tried Adderall, did
nothing positive and increased his moodiness and kept him awake all
night. Saw child psych who suggested treating an apparent anxiety
disorder with fluoxetine. This has helped. However, we were asked to
leave the private school he has been in for the last year and a half. Now
time to restart a stimulant.

We tried Daytrana, but day 1 brought moodiness and a mouth tic. This I
cannot do as he already has a problem with allergies and coughing.
(Much better since started allergy shots earlier this year.) Moved back to
short acting Focalin. This does seem to help his
impulsiveness/hyperness, but 30 minutes after taking, he is talking non
stop. honestly, he is running his mouth without interruption for at least 2
hours. Interestingly, his PGF was trialed with Ritalin not long ago and had
a similar response with the talking problem! Ds will be starting in the
public school and I am worried silly about the difficulties he will face
coming in at mid year, never mind all the other issues we face! Though I
realize it is only kindergarten, I just want him to have a good experience!

For those of you who stuck with the Daytrana, if you saw tics, did they go
away? If you have had the accelerated talking, did it get better? Tell me
of your experience!

Appreciate the feedback. Let me enlighten you! I am a healthcare
provider of which part of my practice is diagnosing and treating ADHD,
among other illnesses and disorders. I am also, ADHD, have a Father who
is, and several other family members who are as well. I have been
familiar with this disorder for many years and am well educated on
diagnosis and treatment. However, I acknowledge and respect the
practical experience of those whom post here. This is quite valuable in
learning what potentially to expect as research and professional literature
can only tell you so much. That is another topic in and of itself.

As for my son, the process began with screening less than a year ago
through his pediatrician and has progressed to seeing a child psychiatrist.
He will begin formal testing in 2 weeks; however, psychometric testing is
not the absolute in diagnosis as many professionals can attest. THe
diagnosis is not in doubt, the question for us continues to be are there
any co-morbid disorders and finding the best possible treatment and
education. As many of you are aware, the symptoms of ADHD can be
found in many disorders and can be difficult to evaluate in one so young.
This has been the primary reason why I, in agreement with the
professional team my husband and I have very carefully assembled, have
not implemented any psychometric testing prior to the age of 6. Our
team includes a pediatrician, child psychiatrist, 2 family/child
psychologists, LCSW, and speech therapist. I have not mentioned the
teachers, principal and others at the school as he is starting a new school
next week. However, my husband and I have met with the asst. principal
on 2 occasions. DS has been placed in the smallest class. School support
will occur as necessary. Interestingly, his class in the public school is
smaller than the private school he left!   

Prior to the trial of stimulants late summer, we tried
homeopathic/alternative treatment, supplements, etc.. This is a complex
problem with a complex solution that needs to be multifaceted in
approach. Medicine is but one area we are addressing. Behavioral efforts
are also underway, as is self meditation. I anticipate some form of social
therapy/training may be needed as well.

Excuse the term "mixed," after a long drive returning home last night and
many days away, I was totally exhausted and using limited brain power.
He would be classified as combined for those who need the details.

THe questions I asked are and remain relative to the practical experience
of side effects. I realize time is needed. I also acknowledge our level of
fatigue and frustration as we continue through the process. Certainly, I
would like to find something that will work immediately with no side
effects! Realistically, that is unlikely to happen. One can hope! I have yet
to find anything relative to the talking but also have not exhausted my
efforts through research.

As for the testing process, I can assure you I have this well under control.
I did not feel the need to provide the entire medical/psych history as I am
not looking for medical advice. I deliberately did not go into the details
primarily because I didn't realize the need and, again, was totally
exhausted and ready for bed.

I hope this helps and I thank you for your feedback!

(I will correct the signature, how tacky of me!)



PS-As for the Daytrana, I refused to continue after one day, I am sure, due
to my own level of intolerance to the tic we were seeing. I am willing to give
it another chance. My other, more practical, concern is the hour school is
starting and the need to give it two hours to achieve therapeutic effect.
School starts at 7:50 and it would be difficult in our household to place it
any earlier than 7:00.I know what you mean, DD used it for a long time and I hated getting up at 5 am to stick a patch on her bum. We have since moved to Concerta with no side effects. We ttried Focalin also and much to my dismay had alot of issues. I am hesitant to start a new stim with all his problems. He also(my DS) takes fluxotine and it has helped the anxiety and moods wonderfully, unfortunatly we need something for focus for school. Not sure what we will try next. Doctor appt tommorrow.

I'm confused, he is diagnosed or not? You said he's not, but he's tried all these meds?

A psych eval would be first step for sure.

As far as Daytrana and side effects, it took a good week before we saw side effects subside for my daughter. Tics did not go away completely until she stopped taking it though. As edbson says, however, you really need to give a med a full week to know if it's helping and/or if side effects will subside. Tics are funny, some meds increase them dramatically, some dont. We've never seen them subside on any stim, always had to tolerate it or go off it. Others, however, say they have seen tics lessen after time.

my daughter also starts school at 7:30, and we had to put the patch on at 5:00am (which was fine with me), BUT it wore off too early since we had to use it so early. So I can understand that piece, I just was asking about the one day part. We've been doing this for years and the one thing I've learned is everything needs time..................Not questioning you at all, only asked questions to try to help with what you asked for help on. Obviously you do not need to share any details you do not choose to. I mentioned the diagnosis as you started your post stating you had no official diagnosis, it was not my intenetion to offend, by asking questions..........and it is very unlikely to find instant results wiht no side effects, believe me, we all wish there were . If so we probably wouldnt need to be here.............

I found on the Focalin that the excessive talking went away after about a week or so. We had too many problems with the FocalinXR and needed something long lasting. We have a prescription for Vyvanse and I am not sure when we will start it. The tics usually do not subside until you stop the med.Thanks for the feedback! That is exactly what I was looking for. And, no
worries, no offense was taken! I tend to be very direct in my
communication and perhaps was not so very with the initial post. I will
once again plead fatigue.

We went to the XR mid week as DS was in a holiday day camp that would
not administer meds. We decided on the approach Joy2 suggested and
initiated this as noted above. WE will start the day with XR and add a
short acting later, if we find we need it. I am reluctant with afternoon
doses as he has been quite sensitive to the sleep issue. I absolutely
refuse to do anything that will interfere with his sleep as I believe very
strongly all symptoms are exacerbated by inadequate rest.

When we initially started with the XR, there was such moodiness and
whinyness at the end of the day we elected to d/c it. The teachers
reported some good, but there remained problems with group
participation and negativity. It is my hope we will see less of the original
problem since quite a few things have changed. First, he is now on the
fluoxetine. Second, he will be in a school where there is more structure.
And finally, I'm on xanax! No, just kidding, but I do think the other two
changes may make a difference.

We went to visit family over New Year's. It wasn't totally horrible, but it
wasn't a whole lot of fun, either. Between the combination of no
structure, lack of consistent sleep, and medication side effects, I was
thrilled to get back to work! The 3 day holiday camp at a local nature
center this week turned out to be a very good idea! Between that, having
him back on his sleep schedule and now taking the XR, I see some
improvement. Winter plans next year will be quite different, I am sure!

I absolutely agree with all of you on the learning curve for meds and the
need to give it some time. This is what I tell my patients is the "art" of
medicine and hang in there. I need to heed my own advice! We still have
a lot of options and I would do well to remember this!

Spamula, thanks for the comment on the talking, that is good to know! I
will keep watching him and the boards for your comments and keep you
posted. I truly appreciate hearing from you on what your experience has
been thus far.

I hope every one has a great New Year and an awesome 2008!

JUST TO LET YOU KNOW I STARTED LEXAPRO FOR ANXIETY AND IT'S 1 OF THE BEST THINGS IO HAVE DONE TO DEAL WITH THIS. GOOD LUCK!Sefa, There is no cure for ADHD and when I was a kid I drove my parents
crazy and wasnt on a thing. It will get worse but when he is an adult he'll
be allot better. I see so many parents try anything and everything and
there is nothing you can do but give him as much love as you can even
though he might be a mean little thing. He'll grow out of it, but all you
parents need to ask yourself this; if I was a bad little ADHD kid and drove
everyone crazy, did poorly in school, how would giving me pharm meth
had made me better? Those drugs only work for adults with ADHD believe
me because no drug will ever make your kids care about anything unless
they are interested in caring. I see kids with ADHD being worse on meds
so maybe I have a good point. All the drug does for me is help me stay
focused at work, but thats because I care about doing well at work
becasue I like what i'm doing. Little ADHD kids hate school because the
system is so screwed up and not set up for them, so they hate it and are
bored out of their minds and do not care. No drug will ever make them
care.brenn_col39452.6848148148 [QUOTE=brenn_col]Sefa, There is no cure for ADHD and when I was a kid I drove my parents
crazy and wasnt on a thing. It will get worse but when he is an adult he'll
be allot better. I see so many parents try anything and everything and
there is nothing you can do but give him as much love as you can even
though he might be a mean little thing.

That I agree with.

He'll grow out of it, but all you
parents need to ask yourself this; if I was a bad little ADHD kid and drove
everyone crazy, did poorly in school, how would giving me pharm meth
had made me better? Those drugs only work for adults with ADHD believe
me because no drug will ever make your kids care about anything unless
they are interested in caring.

Some of us live with kids with ADHD who are changed dramatically for the better every time they get their medication.  Calling it "pharm meth" is unfair and incorrect.   Are you implying that it the chemical formulas of the stimulant medications are the same as methamphetamine? Are our kids' medications also titrated by snorting, injecting or smoking whatever amount we feel like?  Are we providing our children with medication that doesn't work on them?  No, no and no.   A very small amount of methylphenidate (not to be confused with "meth") does indeed make my son "care" about things like playing normally, doing his schoolwork, and having fun with the family and friends.  I'm not going to spend hours explaining it, because I've written about it elsewhere on this site, but yes, it does make him behave normally and care about things other than TV and video games.  It also keeps him from flying off the handle constantly and helps him avoid other major behavioral problems.


I see kids with ADHD being worse on meds
so maybe I have a good point.

Which kids?  You wouldn't recognize my kid as ADHD with his medication, so how would you know?  If they are worse on meds, the doctors and the families are not doing their jobs (or they are in the process of trying to find the right meds and dosages).

All the drug does for me is help me stay
focused at work, but thats because I care about doing well at work
becasue I like what i'm doing. Little ADHD kids hate school because the
system is so screwed up and not set up for them, so they hate it and are
bored out of their minds and do not care. No drug will ever make them
care.

There's a good challenge for you -- open a school for unmedicated ADHD kids.  How would you structure it?  The hyper and impulsive ones are especially fun to have around.  What would you do to keep their interest?  My son would like chemistry explosion day every day.  Constant hog-piles in phy ed would be entertaining.  

My husband is an adult with ADHD (usually unmedicated) and he was the FIRST to say that our son needed medical help.  He did not want his son to go through what he went through in school.  Does he do well now?  Yes, but only because his IQ is stratospheric and he worked out his own systems and structures, but not until he was a teenager.  He could just as easily have fallen through the cracks and self-medicated, like his own father did, using cigarettes and alcohol.  We don't want to leave that to chance.    [/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=brenn_col]Sefa, There is no cure for ADHD and when I was a kid I drove my parents
crazy and wasnt on a thing. It will get worse but when he is an adult he'll
be allot better. I see so many parents try anything and everything and
there is nothing you can do but give him as much love as you can even
though he might be a mean little thing. He'll grow out of it, but all you
parents need to ask yourself this; if I was a bad little ADHD kid and drove
everyone crazy, did poorly in school, how would giving me pharm meth
had made me better? Those drugs only work for adults with ADHD believe
me because no drug will ever make your kids care about anything unless
they are interested in caring. I see kids with ADHD being worse on meds
so maybe I have a good point. All the drug does for me is help me stay
focused at work, but thats because I care about doing well at work
becasue I like what i'm doing. Little ADHD kids hate school because the
system is so screwed up and not set up for them, so they hate it and are
bored out of their minds and do not care. No drug will ever make them
care.[/QUOTE]

 

ADHD meds are not Pharmaceutical Meth( there is NO such thing), they are CNS stimulants. Very different meds altogether.

I DO see the meds helping my DD, she so deeperately wants to do well in school, and needs meds to concentrate to do her best.

There is a debate board if you want to debate med use, but this is not the place for it.

edbson39452.7953356481Joy2, great response! (and, Spamula, Lexapro is a great med and if I really
ever need to medicate, it is 1 of the top 2 I would consider!)

However, I feel the need to add my 2 cents on Brenn_col's post. I agree
with Joy2 on the response to the term "pharm meth." Totally unfair and
as a medical provider, I take great issue with this. As for the "making a
child care," there is NO DOUBT in my mind that my son does care! He is a
loving, affectionate, kind little boy who wants nothing more than to
please us and enjoy his time with those in his orbit. This is a child that
does not know the term "stranger" and has left many charmed folks in his
wake since infancy! He does not understand when he acts impulsively
and cannot explain why he did it. Great example, be kind to the dog,
don't hit the dog and yet, as soon as I turn my back, he hits the dog. I
turn and reprimand him and he is in tears hugging our dog and saying he
is sorry. He is truly remorseful and doesn't understand why he can't
control some of these actions. (By the way, the dog is fine and not
bothered a great deal except by our new puppy!) All this to say, I believe
most of these kids start out caring a great deal. If help is not received, no
matter what kind, then you can bet they begin not to care after a while.
Never mind the tumultuous apathy we see in adolescence, add that to a
child who has been labeled bad or a troublemaker, hello!

I was an ADHD kid, and I have not grown out of this. You cannot know
how much I cared. How demoralizing it was to be such trouble to my
mother, who worked full-time and raised 3 children by herself on a
teacher's salary without support from my father! How frustrating it was
for me to bring home average grades knowing full well that if I opened a
book maybe once I would see A's. Of course I cared, but I soon learned to
disappear into TV or reading. I am proud of what and who I am, but there
is no doubt in my mind had I help sooner, I would have gone much
further in my career. It is my greatest desire for my child to live through
this, not believing he is a bad kid and to have educational options and
career choices. He may choose to pursue college, graduate school and
beyond or not. I want him to have that choice and not be limited by the
challenge of ADHD!

As for growing out of it, I am sure there are those that do. However, I
think we see more that learn to work with it. How many of these people
would say they wish they had made different or better choices earlier in
their life. As for me, I've been blessed with intelligence and I have
augmented this by choosing a partner who is as opposite of me as
possible (not a deliberate effort on my part, just got lucky!), and yet
caring and accepting at the same time. He compliments me in every way
and shakes his head when I do silly things. (Our neighbor usually rings
our bell at night at least once a month when I have left the car door open
after coming home!)

I seriously doubt he will grow out of it, but the hyper and impulsive
behaviors will change over time, revealing new challenges AND rewards.

Joy2, my friend, do I hear you loud and clear on those last two
paragraphs! Why on earth do I want my child to go through the he** I did
as a child. If there is something out there that would help him with little
to no adverse affects, why would I not want to utilize these tools?   There
is a lot more out there to self medicate with besides ETOH and tobacco,
my father's choice was marijuana, and trust me, there are many that are
worse!

Statistically, we know auto accidents/trauma is the number one cause of
death in our young people. We also know that kids with ADHD are much
more likely to take risks. An ADHD child is more likely to have
experimented with drugs, driven recklessly, and engage in unprotected
sex than the non ADHD child. If "pharm meth" will help my 17 year old
son choose not to try drugs, drive 100 mph down the road and make
better personal choices that could bring him back into the non-ADHD
spectrum of choices, then I can assure, my choice will be the "pharm
meth" every time! And, don't get me wrong, I do not believe this is the
"be end all, cure all," but we have enough experience to know it can be a
huge help!!!!!

Joy2, you are right, we do not want to leave that to chance!Hello Sefa and welcome,

My son also has ADHD, combined type.  We have tried numerous medications and combinations over the past 3 years and have stayed the longest with Daytrana.  When he first started treatment (at 5 1/2), he was on Ritalin LA and had some tics.  These diminished over time and he had no tics when we tried longer-acting forms of methylphenidate.

We give him 20 mg of short-acting Ritalin in the morning with Daytrana.  This is a relatively new combination for us (3 months) and works very well.  I've noticed that we need to put the patch on at least an hour after the Ritalin or he becomes very "flat" and anxious in the middle of the day.  Also, when the patch heats up (very hot weather or bath/hot tub), he gets too much medication and we definitely notice side effects (paranoia about bugs/bees).

If the Focalin worked well, can you give him a smaller dose of short-acting as it wears off? We have found that we can give short-acting as late as 4 p.m. without it affecting sleep, although your mileage will vary.  Caffeine helps some people, too. 

The learning curve with medications is slow -- a lot of trial and error for each child.  I would also wait a week or two on each one unless the side effects are unacceptable (we've had those, also).