Took 8y/o off all meds | ADHD Information

This is a huge undertaking and I applaud you for taking on this challenge! I am very interested in hearing about your journey with this approach. I am wishing for the best for you all!

Friday, with our neurologist's knowledge, we took Jon off all his meds. He was diagnosed ADHD by the head of the ADHD clinic at Shand's Hospital when he was 4 years old. Since then he has been on Adderal, AdderalXR, Focalin, FocalinXR, Concerta, Stratera, Vyvance etc. His current dose of AdderalXR was 50mg- 30mg in the AM and 20mg at 1pm.

Jon has not slept thru the night for 4 1/2 years. He wakes up covered with sweat, shaking and has terrible nightmares. His appetite was very depressed and he was not growing as fast as he should have. The medications made him sit still and do school work, he stopped running around when we went anywhere and he seemed fairly "normal" except for really severe rebound behavior where irritibilaty and violent acts became more and more prevalent.

My husband and I decided to take him for chiropractic. He has been going for 5 weeks. We researched nutrition and supplemental products. We took him off his AdderallXR and are weaning down his clonodine (he is only on 1 1/2 tabs per day. If we stopped his clonidine without weaning him down he could stroke out.

His behavior the first day seemed a little shaky. We gave him children's calm formula valerian which seemed to work. He slept through the night for the first time in four years. Saturday and Sunday his appetite improved and he was eating heartliy for the first time in all those years. He got excitable in the afternoon and ran around but didn't scream and repeat and repeat sentences like he was prone to.

Monday we went for healing at a Christian Ministry in Jacksonville. He was excitable in the afternoon but nothing like rebound. He has been sleeping a lot during the day but is happy and not frenzied. He told me he had a good dream. His first in 4 1/2 years.

Today we went out to eat and he ate food that he should not have. He was a pain in the pants all afternoon but again, although I have a headache; he hasn't screamed or acted abnormal.

We were told to not go overboard on the diet; just to remember to not allow him anything with High Fructose Sugar, no Sodium Benzoate and other preservatives, and no food coloring or fake sugar.

We are sending him to school tomorrow. We kept him out Monday and Tuesday to observe him. I'll keep everyone updated but we are GLAD to have taken him off his meds so far.

It really sounds like his little body is enjoying this break! Good luck tomorrow.

It sounds as if you made the right choice, but be careful with valerian, even if it is for kids. Is it possible he was misdiagnosed? I am asking because I feel strongly that my nephew was misdiagnosed.

Valerian has sedative properties. It is a drug so be cautious because children with adhd need to be focused, not sedated

The root of valerian, a perennial herb native to North America, Asia, and Europe, is used most commonly for its sedative and hypnotic properties in patients with insomnia, and less commonly as an anxiolytic

Thank you for the information. I went to see Glen Burkett this morning after taking my son to school and telling his teacher that he is off his meds and he cannot eat anything but what I give him. Glen Burkett is a naturopathic nutritionist and questioned me about my son's behavior and physical factors. I am following his plan for eating and cleansing for all of us. We are all off sugar, fake foods, food coloring, preservatives. I was told he has candida which is true because he had thrush and athlete's foot and other problems that showed it. So, we will cure the candida and we will all eat more protein and vegetables. We will add fruit in a few weeks and we are all taking vitamin supplements.

I will see what happened at school this afternoon- but so far they did not call me. I am cleaning out our pantry and cupboards of all food containing the above no-no's (donating to the food pantry) which is pretty much all my food!

Thanks so much for sharing your experience with us. It is always nice to know there are others out there with the same problems/issues and you. What is the new thread you are starting? I would like to see how things progress.

Hi everyone. Since this thread is about taking Jon off meds and he is now going back on them I am not going to post on this thread anymore but I will keep everyone updated on the Strattera. I started a new thread and I hope you all EMPOWER yourselves. WE CAN DO IT!!

Thanks for all the support and great suggestions.

Randy

Let me tell you what happened...my husband came home unexpectedly and went to the meeting with me and my next-to-oldest son (I have 5 sons and 2 daughters but the 4 older ones are grown).

The principal met with us in a conference room and I let my husband do all the talking. He doesn't talk very much but when he does people listen! He told the principal that he was on the phone when the principal last spoke to me and it sounded as though I were going through an interrogation. He also told the principal that they were sounding as if they were calling us bad parents- which we are not. He went over the problems Jon has with homework and other issues. My son came up with a great suggestion of bringing the children to the library to do their homework because he feels they associate 'home' with 'play'. I felt really good when the principal apologized to us and we could focus on what to do for Jon in school and home to help him.

So the meeting went well and the suspension is for Wednesday (we asked for it because Jon has doctor appointments).

OH, by the way- the psychiatrist is putting Jon on Strattera starting today. I hope it helps. I took Jon off the meds and he has been off for 5 weeks. Oh, my, it has been a difficult time. But he said that Strattera is not a stimulant so it should be better.

I hope things go well with the Strattera- I beleive you have to wait a while before you can really see if it is working. Maybe you could start charting Jon's behavior daily so you can look at the effect over time. (Just something simple like a little calendar-not for Jon to see, just for you- each day write a little something like "good day", "Calm today", "3 defiant episodes today",...) That way after 2 months you can look back and see the big picture.

When it all comes to this......

I went to Jon's school this morning hoping to accompany him to the meeting with the principal. I got my visitor's pass for chapel and the principal and went to the principal's office to wait for Jon. The principal asked what I was doing there, where was my pass (I was wearing it) and he would call me after he saw Jon. I went to chapel to be with my three children and Jon just laid his head on my lap. The principal was very accusatory and not very nice,.

The principal called me about 20 minutes ago to tell me he had a good talk with Jon and Jon understood he was suspended for his 10 merit losses (even though most of the merit losses were for homework misses). I was told before, by Jon's teacher, that she could not make exceptions for Jon missing homework. Then the principal asked me to recall what I told the receptionist when I came to the school- if I said I had a meeting with him; and what I said to Jon's teacher about her caring more about the rest of the class then Jon (what I said was that I realized there were other students in the class and that she needed to maintain order and safety of all the students and if Jon was preventing her doing that then this was not good). Then he asked me what I said to his assistant in front of the other teachers about accomodations and how the school was obligated to provide them for Jon by law. He told me he did a dissertation on that subject and since they were not accepting McKay funds they did not- that Florida Pride Scholarship Funds did not count. He was so accusatory and negative that we are going to a meeting with him at 2pm to speak to him. I am also going to call my congressman to find out what the law actually is.

Wish me luck- I am not an aggressive or pushy person and when cornered as the principal tried to do I freeze (both my mind and my body).

Sorry that the Principal was so confrontational toward you. I know what you mean about "freezing" when put in this type of situation.
It seems as if this school is not really interested in working with you and your son to try to find solutions.
I hope you're able to work something out at the meeting. If I were you I would try to make a list of specific goals (what you would like to accomplish) at this meeting, and then try to stick to accomplishing those goals whatever the Principal throws at you. Easier said than done, I know.
Good luck. Let us know what happens.
one simple piece of advice as far as the principal goes.....he's just a man and he's not YOUR principal, so don't let him make you feel like he is. (any harshness you might take from my tone is sooo not at you, but the school....so I apologize in advance). I mean you are PAYING for your son's education here, the tables should be turned...he should feel uncomfortable. He's not the President and I am most sure he's not a saint, so avoiding disrespect, talk to him the way you would anyone else whose services you are paying for. YOU ARE the only expert when it comes to your child. I don't know anything about this school, but I would as if the rest of the community is aware that the school has a "typical kid only" policy. I mean, come on here...are you trying to tell me they only take "nice" and "behaved" kids!? If that's the case, then they should gave a clearly written policy that states that any child requiring any help beyond what your "typical" child needs is not welcome, and they shouldn't take parents money. Look, I'm not saying your son hasn't been hard work for them, but the easy thing in the world is to like and co-exist with the easy-nice people of this world. It’s the kids that aren't as easy that need it most. You are your child voice, and I'm sure they haven't been all sunshine and fairy dust with him lately themselves.....have they considered the way they react to Jon as a possible factor, or are they so put-off by him challenges that they feel they can't treat him as they see fit?! Sorry to sound so heated here, I'm dealing with my own school issues for my son too and I'm just so tired of this attitude educators have. "Be like everyone else!!!"...well, duh, if ADHD kids COULD they would. I'd be reading write's law right now. It sounds like as long as he was medicated they were happy, but from what you've shared medication was just awful for him. They should have an "easy-kids-only" form. GGGrrr..I agree with KidsInSpace. I have been doing this for my daughter since October and it is very eye opening. It is much easier to track trends and make predictions when you have all the data.

Thank you both. I went to the Strattera site and they have a daily diary so I will keep it up and see what happens. We could all use a good rest.

When I picked Jon and my other two children up at school at 4pm, Jon told me very proudly that he was suspended. I looked at him and told him that was pretty awful, and for the time he is not at the doctors or in the car with me, he will be in his room reading Abraham Lincoln for his big report. I told him that suspension is very very serious and he told me that he didn't care. So much for consequenses.

This afternoon I am going to relax and wash the dogs!! I need some down time. Tomorrow their is no school so we have a 3 day weekend to see what the Strattera does.

By the way, I found a website on disciplining ADHD children: http://www.wrightslaw.com/advoc/ltrs/ltr_to_Bobbie.html

randyjim39520.5918287037Keep us posted. Strattera is about the ONLY med we haven't tried. I was hoping Vyvanse would be our miracle med, but I'm starting to doubt that now. It has been a really rough week or two.I'm glad this went well today. Good for and your husband....I really hope the Strattera works for jon!I hope you have luck with Strattera too. Please understand it does take several weeks (about 6 AFTER hitting target dose) for optimum results. We did see improvement after the first few days with each ramp and at about the 2 week mark after hitting target. You've shown how patient you can be so I am sure you can give this the full shot it needs. The chart is a great tool. My daughter has been on Strattera since November with no side effects.

Thank you for the information and encouragement, Sensorize.

Jon got up when I asked him to this morning. He slept on the floor in my room again. I received a reply to my email to his teacher and found out he is acting out in class and touching things on other student's desks. I have a meeting with the principal tomorrow morning.

One thing that surprised me is that Jon not only wanted to do all his homework, he also wanted to do extra math. But he wanted to do our "rocking math" that I told him we would be doing in our own school. He knew a lot more than I thought he did.

He also told me he doesn't want any medication and that he feels better without it. He is eating a lot but he is also acting out more and more. Such as: spitting his food when it is in his mouth, annoying his sister and brother, breaking toys, not listening. I am waiting for the books I ordered on behavior and the ADHD child and also our appointment with the behavioral psychologist.

It's like a pingpong match in our house. (I'm hoping to keep Jon on a more even keel as the weeks go on.

randyjim,

Your story is incredible. I think that it is fantastic that you are trying all natural means to control the ADHD.

I have a thought should you ever try meds again. My dd uses the Daytrana patch. I have doubts that it would work perfectly for your son's ADD but the side effects could be significantly lower. It takes about 2 hours to kick-in in the morning so mornings would still be a challenge. You can pull off the patch at any time of the day. So my dd takes her patch off at 2:25pm when she gets home from school. She has about 2 hours of focusing energy to do her homework. She is hungry at dinnertime and sleeps well. She has a big snack at bedtime. She doesn't eat lunch well but makes up for the lost calories in the evening. There is no rebound because it is very slow getting out of her system. Thankfully, my dd can take Straterra also so her dose of Daytrana is only 15 mg and her ADD is well-controlled for most of the day. You haven't been able to use Straterra so maybe partial ADD-control would be better than nothing.

If I was in your shoes and I wanted to try meds again, I would try the Daytrana at the lowest dose and then ramp up the dose until I saw signs of side effects and then I'd back down to the lower dose. It might be that it would not adequately help the ADD but it might help enough to be of benefit. I would make sure that his body has learned how to sleep well before doing a med-trial again. It might also be possible for you to use another high-quality stimulant but at a lower dose than you have tried.

We tried several stimulants also and dd lost weight and started picking scabs relentlously. Most stimulants interferred with her sleep. She is very short and thin (under the 1% line last we checked) so we are really concerned about her getting her calories. She actually gained weight and grew an inch since she started Daytrana a few months ago. I was sooooo afraid to try stimulants again but my doctor suggested it. We started on a school vacation and it all worked out.

Our first reason to medically treat our dd was so that she could function and be happy. One of our reasons for treating dd with meds was because of the effect that her ADD was having on our family. Dd doesn't have the H in her diagnosis but at home it is really apparent. Her younger sister wasn't getting any attention from us because ADD daughter sucked us dry. ADD daughter would say impulsive mean things to her sister. Younger sister was starting to really resent her sister. ADD daughter would have fits of frustration doing her homework EVERY day even though she doesn't have a learning disability. My husband and I were worn out from constantly reminded dd to do things, not get distracted, to control her mouth etc... I found myself yelling and then feeling guilty about yelling at a kid with a disability. I was eating for comfort and I noticed younger dd doing the same. There was hardly any good quality time. The ADD controlled all aspects of our life. I could see my husband and I drifting apart in the future.

mamark39504.3192361111

I so feel for you and your family! Even though my son (7) was diagnosed with SPD, I see a lot of similarities with him and your son. He is often defiant and touches everything. Can be the sweetest most loving boy, but once he spirals into something, it is hard to pull him out! He often fights with his sister (4) and some of his friends-will even break their things on purpose to hurt their feelings?!

I have great results with the high protein diet you are doing. We also do omega 3 every morning. And my son's school is incredibly supportive. Since we have the IEP for his sensory processing, he has 15 minutes twice a day (in the morning and afternoon) in the OT's room where he gets to swing or bounce or get squished in the steamroller. In class, he has a reward chart with 2 rules (1.follow directions, 2.keep hands and feet to yourself) If he follows both rules, he gets a +, if he doesn't, he gets a o. This chart is sent home to me every day and I have a chart at home also where he gets stickers for having a good school chart plus getting dressed, brushing teeth, doing homework, etc. At the end of the week, if he has enough stickers, I'll take him to the movies or the beach or something fun. The main point is to give them success. Make it simple enough so they are successful. If you need to reward him every 15 minutes, that's ok, but hopefully he replaces the habit of hitting with the habit of keeping his hands to himself. Our school chart is only two weeks old and so far he's been doing better than before.

Keep us posted! Stay strong and calm. P.S. I have some great emails from Celebrate ADHD. I can forward them to you if you want.

Sensorize39504.5654513889

Thank you Sensorize. It has been difficult and the last two weeks have seemed like years and years. As far as calm- I am OK- I tend to shut down when I get overwhelmed rather than strike out.

Tomorrow is our trip to the psychiatrist for Jon's evaluation. Today was another very hyper day for Jon. I had a conference with the principal and his teacher this morning. They both made me feel as though I were a terrible mother with no parenting skills. They kept harping on that Jon was controllable in school- a lot of times, though, they admitted that he just sat there with an open page in his workbook and never would touch it.

They told me if his merit losses were not treated seriously at home that he would not care if he did or didn't do his work. They couldn't or WOULDN'T understand that by the time we get home at 5pm there is very little time to do anything. My sister suggested I just do his homework to get them off his neck and I think I may do that. He already lost his merit field trip with his class, they told me that if he has one more merit loss he will have a one day suspension. Jon would LOVE to stay home with me. So I feel as though his teacher and the school does not know enough about ADHD children to realize that a lot of them do not have the 'synapse' capability of sitting and doing schoolwork consistantly.

Jon would not keep his hands off his brother or sister today, they fought for the hour trip to school, the trip back home, the trip to the doctor and everything inbetween.

One very worrying activity we noticed (besides sticking open paperclips in his ears) is that he is eating things like lint, threads out of the carpet, plastic. This afternoon he was licking the bottom of his shoes.

The chiropractor said to give him time- his progress evaluation was very good. Some of his neck and spine looked normal.He also suggested that we try to detoxify him.

My husband told me that to keep our family from fracturing we need to put Jon back on medication if the psychiatrist recommends it. My husband is having a difficult time in knowing what action to take when Jon becomes beligerant and disrespectful. So now we decided to spend time playing ball with them outside and if any of them are breaking the rules we will cut down the time- 5 minutes at a time. Since we are starting with 30 minutes I think that it will work.

randyjim39504.7421990741

I had a problem with Jon's school. We had given them a large fee to register the children for school next year three weeks ago. When we decided to homeschool, I asked for a refund and they refused. They said the fee was nonrefundable. I could see it if it were July but I just gave them the money and it is a lot. Jon's psychiatrist is writing a note stating that staying in the school would be detrimental to him and then I hope they will refund it.

I went to the behaviorial psychologist today with Jon. Dr. Pete is great! He took a history of Jon and asked me what I hoped he (Dr. Pete) could accomplish. What our goals were. I told him Jon and I needed to learn how to help when Jon lost his temper and when he was impulsive. Also, when we are in stores or out and he starts acting up. Dr. Pete is also going to give Jon a battery of tests to see where he is academically and emotionally. He also told me that according to federal law- the Americans with Disabilities Act of 1990, both public and private schools are required to make accomodations for children with disabilities.

Jon is eating and eating. He is enjoying being a conversationalist more and more. Tonight my 6 y/o daughter held a tea party and Jon dressed up to attend. They were so adorable. I am still having problems getting Jon to settle down in the evenings but taking him off medications was the best thing we ever did for him.

Thank you. The new thread is Empower yourself.

Yay! I'm so glad things are going well for you and Jon!

Thank you everyone for all your support. I know that taking a child off medication is a very scary thing and it is not for everyone. However, Jon's dosages were so high and his behavior so dangerous and eratic when it was wearing off I felt it was worth the try.

Jon is still continuing to improve. I know that he tries to be the center of attention, always. He did his spelling homework with great moaning and groaning and difficulty last night and then forgot to turn it in and got another homework miss. I saw his planner- he did not bring it home for several days and there are a number of homework misses. If the school gives me a difficult time about it and suspends him I may tell the school that they are ignoring the Federal American's with disabilities law by not accommodating his inabilities.

This afternoon, after our trip to the chiropractor, Jon's behavior started to deteriorate. He had eaten a candy from somewhere (school?) and started to act out, run away, and threaten me with hurting himself. I ignored his running away from me and he came back more quickly each time. I also told him he would not hurt himself and if he said it again he would go directly to time out. He stopped immediately and started to behave. So I think I am in the 'test mommy' phase of his behavior. I am no longer going to make excuses or be easy on him because I think there is something wrong with him that he can't help. I don't hit, I don't yell, I just will ignore him. And for a child that likes to be the center of attention that is probably the worst for him.

He is still being called names by children in school- today he was called a 'white nerd' and it upset him. I was afraid he would punch the child but he did nothing and I told him that while the boy said it to be mean it was really pretty funny when you thought about it. I also told him that it would not be long until we had our own school and he wouldn't have to listen to that bad kind of talk.

Jon fell asleep on the couch again so I am glad his soft futon will arrive tomorrow. I went into his room and it was a total mess as usual. When I analyzed it I realized that 90% of it was from clothing he would take out of his drawers and throw on the floor until he found something comfortable. Tomorrow I am going to take away all his clothing except one pair of pj's, socks (only 2 pair) and one change of clothing plus his school uniforms. It should make it much easier for both him and me.

I am also going to throw all his medications down the toilet- the pharmacist suggested I do that- because Jon went into my closet to get something for a hurt hand and ear without my permission.

I am relaxing a little more each day. It feels good and I believe that I have done the best thing for my son. It has been a very difficult and long journey.

I don't know if this would be helpful to you at all, but my son used to throw his clothes around his room as well.

Now I place his clothes in the drawer vertically, almost like filing, so he can see all his shirts and pants when he pulls out the draw. I had to find a way to fold them differently, but that was easy and I don't even think about it anymore. It also helps to prevent him from wearing the same items over and over again just because they happen to be on the top of the stack.

The clothes thing drives me nuts! I'm constantly finding clean clothes thrown in with the dirty laundry because he throws it on the floor when look for something and then when I ask him to gather up his laundry it just all gets scooped up.

I've found that folding his t- shirts normally, then rolling them works well. They all fit in the drawer in one layer so he can see them and it has the added bonus of keeping them from getting as wrinkly. Pants don't roll as well, but he doesn't have as many of those.

Jon was out of control when I picked him up from school today. He was attacked by several boys in the playground and came home with half his face scratched up and puffy. The bad thing is that the school did not even call me up to tell me!! Jon started hitting his brother (accidentally on purpose), throwing things at his brother and sister, talking back and he flooded the bathroom taking a shower to calm down. I mean flooded as in through the wall flooded.

He ate a great dinner and we put headphones and cd's on for him. My husband finally held him on his lap and Jon fell asleep in less than five minutes....later on I found out that he had received candy as a reward in school (with green coloring) and he ate the whole thing. It was this powder stuff that you dip a straw or something in. My older son found the wrappers hidden under his toys in his toy box. Since I cleaned out the toy box today, I know it was not in there before school.

Jon's futon came today and we put him to sleep on it with his new pillow and a heavy quilt. I am hoping his weighted blanket comes tomorrow. The futon is soft and fluffy and you sink into it- it feels good.

So besides not accommodating jon in school, they are letting him have food that I specifically told them not to give him. Unreal!!! I hope he has a better day tomorrow. Poor Jon. Poor sister and brother! Everyone went to sleep early and so am I- as soon as the laundry is done and the school lunches made and the kitchen cleaned up......etc etc. What would I do without all these interesting things happening around me?

Today is Sunday. Jon fell asleep early again but woke up about 7:15am and decided to skate around the block with his brother without telling us. My husband made him a protein shake and oatmeal. He has been very hungry all the time.

I gave him his vitamins this morning and we went to a new church (we moved and are trying to find a new church). We did not tell the Sunday School teachers about his ADHD; just told them to please not give any of our children food or drinks except water. When we picked them up two and a half hours later we were told he is very intelligent but got a bit rambunctious- nothing bad. We then told them about the ADHD and that he was off his meds. They told us he was fine.

When we went to introduce our children to the new pastor, Jon ran around and around and would not let me stop him. I told him to go to the hospitality room and he could have a cookie that was home made. He went in there and I was able to hold onto him although he tried to get away. He was loud and angry about not being able to eat candy and cookies. I gave him 12 a clonidine and a mellow. In the car we also gave him Valarian calm. He calmed down in 20 minutes and was his nice, quiet, happy self and ate a hamburger and fries in a restaurant. He ate a lot and told the waitress that he couldn't have ketchup but only mustard.

When we got home I realized that his 1/2 clonidine had gotten stuck to the bottom of the little plastic cup I put his vitamins in so he hadn't had his dose in the AM. I figure if all he needs is 1/2 clonidine to keep him stable this is great. We do see the new psychiatrist this week and next for an evaluation we do not want to put him back on the meds.

We have also decided to home school for next year. The only reservation I have is that I was so exhausted by the time we came home this afternoon I had to take a 2 hour rest. I hope I have enough energy to keep up with them. If only we could siphon some of theirs to us.

randyjim39495.6832638889

Hang in there!!!! We all have those bad days.

I know it can be difficult to find a systems that works for ADHD kids, especially when they impulsely act before their brains can tell them there will be a consequence. I have had the power struggles with mine too. Unfortunately, if allowed, he will use his ADHD as an excuse to be bad "because he can't control himself." - but he could when he had a good enough reason too...hmmmm

Structure and consistency is so important with our kids.

Every child is different, but mine responds best to a behavior chart. The one I use now is the easiest for us and works great for him at home and at school.

I made a little pocket with magnet on back to stick on fridge. I have 2-inch wide strips of colored construction paper in them. Every time he breaks a rule, he has to move the front color to the back of the bunch. After 2 colors there are consequences printed on each new color (no dessert, no video games, no TV, etc.) I have 6 colors now, but I think I started with 8. When he stays on the first color all day, he gets a reward. I focused on 2 rules at a time that I was completely strict with each and every time he broke the rule. When he had one of those down to where it wasn't an issue, I would add another rule. Now it is just behaving in general. His absolute worst punishment for the chart was "no back rub at bedtime". He HATED that one. But I took it off because that was our time to talk about the day and let him know that no matter what I loved him.

He has responded to this SO MUCH BETTER than anything else I have tried. No more yelling or having power struggles with him. No spanking. Once he realized I was going to do it every time and not waffle to avoid a conflict, he responded better to it. I think it also trained me to be more consistent and realize just how often I was just giving in to what he wanted to not fight - but that only made it worth it to him to try to disobey (he had a 1:3 shot I would give in).

Again, every child is different and I will pray that you find the right combination that works best for your child - HANG IN THERE!!! He is worth it!!

< =text/>_popupControl(); Please be very careful of the valerian and the colloidal silver, especially if you occasionally give other meds, as contra-indications can happen with certain mixes.

Also, after having much experience with chiropractors, I have to express my opinion. All I can say is, they are helpful when you have an osteo problem, but beyond that...it's mostly quackery. I've had them suggest rice diets, coffee enemas, riding in only A CERTAIN MAKE OF CAR, ask me if I'd EVER fallen down (EVER? What child hasn't??), suggest that they could cure an ascorbic acid allergy with a regimen of adjustments and diet (well, no kidding. Avoid eating anything containing ascorbic acid and the allergy goes away!!). I'm super sceptical that all they (most of them, anyway) are really trying to help is the bottom line of their checking accounts.

Hi,

I recently attended a lecture by Russell Barkley. I am sure most of you have heard of him. It was very good but one very simple explanation for why most ADHD kids can concentrate on video games for hours but cannot complete 10 minutes of homework. It's called immediate point of performance gratification. Video games give them points, they move up levels, in other words they accomplish something. Most ADHD kids have a problem with delayed gratification. They need to see something positive NOW. So your son can behave for chocolate because it's an immediate reward. To do something just because it's the "right thing to do" doesn't work for most of these kids. They need very concrete reasons and rewards. They seem to lack intution and that little inner voice that the rest of us listen to. This is how my ADHD son operates and it's exhausting.

Now, having said that, my ADHD daughter is a little different and seems to be less motivate by constant rewards although they do help.

I hope you are successful in avoiding medication if possible. It's a very difficult journey to find the right fit for your family to deal with ADHD. Our decision to medicate was based on my son's emotional health. Oh, I am sure he was a handful for the teachers but he was not struggling with learning. He was struggling with friends. These children "get" that they are different. One time my son said to me "mom, I should have never been born because I am different than everyone else." Wow, did that bring tears to my eyes. My husband and I decided his mental health is just or really more important than learning and we have seen a HUGH improvement in his mental health. It has not been easy to find the right medication but worth the effort. His teacher said she sees no problems with his social interactions at school. I really wish you luck.

Did anyone see the "blue man" on Oprah today? Dr OZ was on, and a man who had taken Colloidal Silver was on because he had turned Blue from Argyria.

I would be really careful with that stuff.

oh yes, I actually walked into a store and Oprah was on and it was when he walked out. I didnt know what it was about. That was horrible, he really was blue

. Diane V39497.7620833333 i would also add - that with video games (i am such a dinosaur when it comes to this stuff so i don't have personal experience - cos i don't play them as the last thing i need is another addictive, procrastination tool!) it is also a whole combination of things:
1. a thing which they can do WELL, for a start

i am the worlds most motivated person with praise but it can't just be external praise i also have to think that i have done it well. so if i do a project (as i work in film) and everyone says it is great but i think it is crap. it just doesn't matter. i hate it - i can't bring myself to work on it or rather it is extremely painful and difficult for me and takes enormous amounts of mini-rewards/self-inflicted punishments and general just a nightmare... and equally the other way around - if i think it is great i can't care that much about how others perceive it, as long as i am delighted with it, that's enough.

2. video games are formulated in a way that is almost addictive to the ADD brain - the way it works it is as much a drug as Adderall! but i don't know why - it just seems to appeal to the ADD type of brain (not simply for the praise or fact of doing it well but in and of itself!)

3. performance gratification yes that too definitely.
it is the issue of gratification. somehow it makes sense that to do something is has to be worth the effort expended but then again it is weird how illogical the gratification thing can be - surely i can work out that the gratification of holding down a job/relationship/life(!) is more gratifying than spending the next thirty years jobless/relationshipless/but being great at dungeons and dragons (or whatever internet/video game it is)... but apparently not. i have to override my own ADD brain and force it - and, of course, in many cases the effort expended by an ADDer is that much more than a normal. what a normal would choose to do (having made that internal calculation - and come out positive) an ADDer will choose not to do (having made the same internal calculation - but it has come out negative).

i do have some inner point where if the reward isn't seemingly going to be worth the struggle (either because it is too far in the future for me to be able to process it mentally or because i simply can't see that the reward part outweighs the effort put in) then it is a question of overriding myself by sheer will power but often it is seems an illogical inner point.

i mean i agree with everything the poster has said above - except that it is not as straightforward as immediate gratification - it doesn't benefit me to waste six hours playing solitaire - and then do my essay in an hour and get it in minutes before the deadline. because i still do the essay it just means the essay is rushed and crap but, normally (in my case) just about good enough to get by. this is my whole LCD (lowest common denominator) attitude. i will do just enough. and that is why so many ADDers get the whole "not living up to their potential" again and again and again and again on their report cards from friends and family and so on throughout their life.

it's just complex. one is stuck with a brain that basically works in a way that doesn't fit well within normal society and you spend 90% percent of your time fighting it to try to normalise yourself or it --- and it's a constant losing battle, i think. one should just try to find whatever ADD talent is hidden in that weird ADD brain (be it painter/musician/computer nerd/expert trampolinist or whatever) stuff what the rest of the world says is right and/or wrong and just go with it. find whatever support you need to compensate. (oh ho! if it were so EASY)

4. the whole thing of 'solving' things just by using ones brain (ie a lazy way) being an over-viewer rather than a implementer. seeing the problems and the solutions.

i do think ADDers get an ordinate amount of satisfaction from solving things - even completely stupid, pointless things... i love doing cryptic crosswords, i love playing solitaire, i love wasting time on internet forums but they are all different forms of problem solving in a certain way.

the reason i am here today is because i have given myself an "indulgence" day --- almost to trawl the worst depths of my ADD. like an alcoholic deciding to go back into a bar and get completely trashed; or a sex-addict going back into a brothel; or a binge-eater/buleimic stuffing themselves with icecream and cookies - even though they will all probably hate themselves afterwards -

i won't hate myself afterwards - it actually energises and helps me to schedule in reward-days/indulgences. and normally the next day i can get on with things that much better. i just have to be sure to limit them otherwise they control me - rather than the other way around.

anyway - i'm rambling AGAIN just cos i am on an indulgence day so just ignore - it's just a way for my brain to relax and run on while i don't think. it's calming for me.

have a good one!

chjones39497.6457291667Out of curiousity, how does chiropractic help with adhd? My mom had one that helped her immensely after a car accident left her with a ton of back/neck problems. But when he tried to treat my tendinitis- ah, needless to say it had no effect since it has nothing to do with the bones. i don't know exactly jaderock54 but there is also something called a STNreflex --- and there is a HUGE long post about it by annidagostini somewhere in Alternatives section called "crawling exercises" or something similar...

Anni's theory is that her ADHD symptoms are caused by an undeveloped SNTreflex (or whatever it is) - this is a reflex that normally develops as a baby when the child first crawls... in Anni's case she never crawled because she had some sort of casts on her legs (i can't remember the medical reason why) and therefore this reflex never developed for her.

the result of having an undeveloped reflex is many symptoms that are extremely similar to classic ADHD symptoms/behaviours.

Anni has since been doing these crawling exercises to develop the reflex and has had great success with it particularly in terms of memory and organisational skills etc. etc. - so i guess it is possible that a chiropracter might work on the same sort of thing??????

this is the link, i hope, but i have to say that i think something went a bit wrong with the first page or something (it is as if it is missing a few initial pages or something and it comes in in the middle of some sort of bitter argument) but the whole post is still 73 pages LOOOONG so i guess skipping the first couple of pages isn't going to make a great difference - and the topic is called Crawlers Unite if the link doesn't work... and you are still interested at all.

http://www.adhdnews.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=13546&am p;KW=annidagostini

A few things about Jon- he was a preemie with a myriad of medical problems including apnea, paralysis on his left side, thrush, preemie shakes etc. He crawled like a crab dragging his left side behind him. He looks fine now but there were a lot of things that he had to overcome.

The chiropractor told us that the spine is where the main 'electricity' of the body flows from and if there is misalignment than the proper synapses can't receive the electricity. There is a computer program that measures the electrical impulses of the spine along each vertibrae and Jon's was completely messed up including very little to no electrical impulses along the part of the spine that controlled the side he was paralyzed on. And I hadn't told Dr. Rob about that until after the testing.

Thank you all for the information on instant gratification, the game boys, and the behavior charts. As I posted earlier- I found out about the effects of valerian from taking it myself today and it was awful. It made me really think about what these children must go through when they take the medications the doctors prescribe for them!!! And they don't have a choice.

Jon had a good day today. He ate cereal for breakfast and had his vitamins. He didn't get any extra protein. He didn't get into trouble at school for not listening and was good when I picked him up to take him to the chiropractor. He was talkative on the way home and would not keep still. He was telling me he was startving and had to eat right away. I made a bowl with raw stringbeans, broccoli, carrots and red and yellow peppers and put out a natural ginger dressing and bluecheese dressing and all the children ate a LOT!! The had an early dinner of all natural turkey dogs from the health food store (no preservatives or food coloring and a multigrain health roll with olive oil dip... he kept on eating after that. He needs to gain 10-15lbs so I am not worried and the food is all healthy.

Jon did get into trouble after dinner playing outside. he was throwing a ball at the children in the neighborhood and we brought him in and got him in the shower to calm down. He played the game boy but tired of it in a few minutes and told me I needed to "squeeze the energy out" of him because he had too much to sleep. i put on the lullaby sound player and gave him an iced gelpack to help him concentrate on something other than his 'energy'.

He is still awake, wanting me to stay up until he falls asleep and telling me he loves me every few minutes or so. Except for that it is quiet in the house and I am enjoying the peace.

Today was the day nightmares are made of. Jon was very hyper and irritable. He got hold of a box of cereal (organic with no bad stuff) and bounced off the walls. I gave him 1/2 clonidine with the other vitamins and he became very hungry. I fed him tuna and more tuna and boiled eggs and he calmed right down and went to do his homework and told me he was tired and was taking a nap.

He slept for an hour and when I woke him we repeated the whole thing except I had to take them food shopping. He was a riot- zipping cereal boxes along the floors, rolling cans, whining. I am afraid I bribed him with a chocolate bar (hershey's) and he controlled himself after that. i wonder why, if he can control himself for a candy bar he just can't control himself?

i was so glad when my husband came home early and helped me take him to the chiropractor. Dr. Rob said his body is adjusting and it will take a while: maybe a year to where the behavior problems calm down. Meanwhile, his friend is a behavioral psychologist and he recommended we see him. Since he is the same one our neurologist recommended I called and made an appointment.

I am putting them all to bed early tonight- I need the break.

Wow, your story is so inspiring. What a great thing you are doing for your son! By the way, have you heard of Celebrate-ADHD by Kirk Martin. It is a great book and he also sends out a wonderful monthly newsletter with all sorts of information. www.celebrate-adhd.com/ Keep up the good work and kudos to you and your family.

Let me count the ways our family is being unraveled through Jon's behavior: Our walls have more cracks and holes in them this weekend, our bathroom was flooded, he popped every single one of his brother's birthday balloons and broke almost all of his brother's birthday toys. He is walking on the walls and ceiling.... he is disrespectful and disobedient and I think we found the partial solution:

I froze leftover cupcakes from his brothers birthday party- there were 12 and now there are 2!!!!! SUGAR RUSH!!!

This evening he is mellow and I talked to him about whether he would feel better on his medication- his answer was no, he knows he can be calm but he has a sweet tooth. So it is really up to us to keep him from sugar. Also, in two weeks he has gone from 60 lbs to 66.8lbs!!! I am so happy about this since he is 4'10" at 8 years old and should be about 75lbs.

I also spoke to his brother and sister and told them how much I appreciated their putting up so much with Jon's behavior all these months and years. We are working toward at least one good deed per day that they need to perform for each other.

I will see what the psychiatrist tells us this week as far as what he can decide if there are any underlying problems that Jon may have. iI know that i went off antidepressants this week and know that if I want the energy and level headedness to deal with Jon i need to stay on them.

You are an inspiration for trying so hard for your son!!! I am curious, have you noticed a consistent relationship between protein in the morning and him having a calmer day? I might have to try that. Have you tried adding a protein shake from a healthfood store for the mornings he insists on cereal. I picked up one a long time ago when my son was losing weight, and he really liked the taste, just a chocolate shake to him. I'm not sure if they have sugars or ingrediants you are trying to avoid though.

Keep up the fight, and keep us posted!! We continue to pray for him.

I do notice a difference when Jon has a lot of protein in the morning. There is a product called Greens & Whey made by Biochem that he likes. I buy it in the health food store. I also make plenty of hard boiled eggs and egg salad and tuna that he can eat when he wants. I have also noticed that the times he has not eaten for a few hours are the times he starts to act out. I am going to weigh him in the morning to see if he gained anything. Today is two weeks without medicine.

After school, Jon came home and played outside until dinner time. He did not want to come in but a warm shower convinced him that it can be nice to come inside also. He ate a really good dinner and fell asleep on the couch at 7:30pm. I am hoping he will sleep through the night. He is still peeing on his towels and dirty clothing in his hamper at night. I will probably address this tomorrow with him but I really don't care: it is in his room and on his dirty clothes. Unless he is having bladder problems or is afraid at night it is probably the only thing he has control over right now.

I am still giving him the 1/2 clonidine morning and evening and vitamins and some herbal preparations. Jon still has a lot of work to do to be able to listen and obey without talking back. But he seems to get better day by day and thank goodness the screetching and repeating words is gone. It has been a very good day. Tomorrow I will only give him 1/4 Clonidine in the AM and PM.

randyjim39500.8831597222

I woke up to find Jon on the floor of my bedroom with his pillow and blanket, sound asleep. I gave him his vitamins, a protein drink, his clonidine and oatmeal with raisins. He wanted to go out to play at 6:30am and we had a hard time keeping him in the house until 8am. He was very hard to handle this morning; threatening to throw rocks at his brother and sister, being disrespectful, crying, calling us mean etc.

At noon we left the house for my other son's 9th birthday party which could have been part of the problem in the morning. Jon was nasty nasty nasty to everyone and I gave him another half clonidine (his prescription shows 1 in the AM, 1 at noon and 1or 2 at bedtime). He became unruly during the party and and I gave him the other half clonidine.

All he wanted to do was go home and play. He ate pizza for dinner, took a shower, threw a toy at us when we did not jump fast enough for him. He did listen without complaint when he was sent to his room. I followed him in their in less than five minutes and he told me he felt ill. I heated his blanket in the dryer, covered him and read to him for all of three minutes before he fell asleep.

I must say I don't know who was more miserable today- Jon because he can't stand the way he acts sometimes, or us because we were the brunt of his verbal abuse.

Perhaps it was the fact that we had an unusual activity (the birthday party) today.

We went to the psychiatrist's office for our interview tonight. It was just my husband and myself. We got a sitter for the children. She had not seen the children for six months and said that Jon was mellow and calm and very loving!!!!

It was strange, but the more we talked about Jon, the more we realized that we just want him to be safe and happy. It doesn't matter if he doesn't grow up to be a doctor or lawyer. He can be what HE wants to be and he will be happy at it and good at it.

At the doctor's office there was a magazine that I asked if I could borrow. It is called, "Attention" and is about ADHD. It is published by CHADD.org and there were a lot of interesting articles. One in particular stated that 65% of people with ADHD cannot write stories, papers etc. To tell a person with ADHD to just "work harder" is like telling a blind person that they can read a book if they just try harder. So, I think my attitude about school is right on this year....let Jon enjoy it, do what he can, and I can take up the slack when I homeschool.

He now has 9 merit losses and a boy in his class told him he was a troublemaker because he had them- even though they were for missed or incomplete homeworks. I am going to address that tomorrow with his teacher.

BTW- the doctor told me that some children with ADHD just CAN'T do homework so I don't need to let Jon worry anymore about it.

Someone in the forum wrote and asked where she could find joy. I believe I can tell her honestly it is where her child is sleeping and bending down to kiss his/her little face, to smell their sweet child smell. To find joy in knowing that her child is perfectly made in God's eyes and that SHE is her child's champion and advocate, caregiver, and care taker... share a rainbow, share the cool or hot sand under your feet together, run through a puddle. And most of all know that all of us are blessed to have our children and that we don't have to bow to the world's pressures of what is good and perfect for our children; we can help our children know that they are good and perfect for us!

randyjim39499.8538078704NOt all public school are bad about helping kids, some are very very good at it. Some private schools, if they receive any gov't funsing are required to follow IDEA, so they do have IEP's , 504 is covered under Civil rights, so all school have to have it to operate.

AHHHHH! I tried the valerian I give my son and it hit me so hard that I couldn't believe it!! I was 'doozled': disoriented, woozy, and tired. I had to call my husband and he met me for food (I tried it on an empty stomach). So- yes- I can see where you need to be very careful with this stuff...

We have been fortunate enough to hook up with a wonderful, nonquack chiropractor. As a matter of fact, he was written up during 9/11 for giving adjustments, free of charge, to all the rescue and emergency workers right there on scene! He has never told us to use or not to use anything except not to use food colorings or fake sugars (Equal). He also treats my other children pretty much at no charge!

And thank you everyone for the great ideas for the chart and to be very consistant with behavior. So many times I just want to hide in my bedroom!

[QUOTE=edbson]

I applaud you making such a drastic diet change, I have BTDTD and it is not easy. You might also watch foods with Salycilates, tomato, grapes etc. And I agree No fruit juice, it is nothing but sugar with no nutritional value.

I would not give the Coloidal Silver, it is harmful to good gut bacteria, and can be toxic to enzymes. It also causes argyria. It is banned in the US.

I would also watch any herbals very closely, they can have adverse reactions, very quickly and very severely.

[/QUOTE]

There are good fruit juices out there with all the artificial coloring, sugars etc....

[QUOTE=rhondacty][QUOTE=edbson]

I would not give the Coloidal Silver, it is harmful to good gut bacteria, and can be toxic to enzymes. It also causes argyria. It is banned in the US.

I would also watch any herbals very closely, they can have adverse reactions, very quickly and very severely.

[/QUOTE]

There are good fruit juices out there with all the artificial coloring, sugars etc....

[/QUOTE]

I meant to say without the artificial colorings, sugars...sorry. There is all natural fruit juice. I find it all the time. They are more expensive but its worth it to me.

[QUOTE=randyjim]

i wonder why, if he can control himself for a candy bar he just can't control himself?

[/QUOTE]

but i am an adult ADDer and i am the same! it is really, really hard for me to control my "inner demons" (if i can put it that way). so the more incentive i have from outside in terms of structure/consequences and/or praise the easier it becomes for me!

risenreds chart sounds EXACTLY the sort of thing that would've helped me when younger!

i ended up with £2,500 worth of parking tickets (,000) because i forget time and i can't deal with the stress of it --- and it was a nightmare (eventually it DID get sorted out and i didn't have to pay fortunately....) but the whole harshness of the situation finally was SO bad that i DID remember to get back to my car in time and not let the ticket run out etc. etc. (this is in London where each parking ticket is £100 a time and the wardens are the devil incarnate - i mean three minutes over and that's it, ticketed!). but the severity, the almost complete unfairness of it... i mean £100 for being five minutes LATE?????? how does that compute? and the whole system of simply never being allowed to get away with it finally managed to push some sort of discipline into my undisciplined-brain.

now when i get out of the car i try to remember to put my phone to 'alarm' me 10 mins before the parking is up and that way --- even if i am distracted i can be brought back down to earth and get to the car.

and so, in the weirdest way, i still need that almost childish structure/praise/consequence/reward system just to beat my own demons --- and the more you make it impossible for your child to get away with indulging his demons the happier/easier you make it for him. it's almost as if you are fighting his demons for him because he doesn't have the strength to do it on his own. i want the same - i put in another post i would LOVE to have a sergeant-major on a permanent pay-roll just to YELL me into getting things done/not letting myself get away with it.

i have mentioned this analogy before somewhere but it really struck me as helpful for an ADDer - it's an American Indian fable and a boy asks his father about good and evil and the father replies "inside each heart there are two wolves one good and one bad, fighting each other" so the boy asks "but which one wins?" and the father answers "the one you feed."

so i always feel every time i give into my demons i am only feeding them and allowing them to get stronger and then they will become IMPOSSIBLE to defeat and my good demon will be so emaciated it will barely be bothered to voice even an objection. and as much as i LOATHE my bank and their outrageous, unfair system of penalising me every time i get confused and muck-up my finances - i also have to acknowledge that by being such out-and-out miserable b***ards they are in fact helping me to GET TO GRIPS with the worser aspects of my "inertia/apathetic/head-in-the-sand ostrich" type deficiencies. not that that doesn't mean they are not evil, total miserable evil sh*tes who deserve to be roasted eternally etc. etc. etc. and exploit the vulnerable with their power-hungry, greed-filled abuses because they are - but in that weird topsy-turvy way that the world is - they are actually MORE helpful to me than they, or I, often realise.

(and btw i don't mean to discount the fact, and i think it should never be discounted that i don't MEAN to be this way. it is not 'deliberate' behaviour - it is just the way my brain is somehow configured)

the whole thing about a dopamine-deficiency is just how it manifests itself --- for some people it can manifest itself in a desire to eat and they become enormously fat but for me, it tends to manifest itself in "inertia" - but often it is unique to that individual. and one has to create an individual plan to combat it. my own consists of a melee of different rewards and punishments:

exercise: (normally swimming and yoga)
rewards: (a treat of "watching telly or going on the internet or even a food treat of a nice cup of tea and chocolate biscuit - it doesn't matter what but something i can use to trick me into starting/beginning what i am supposed to do, even if it is only ten minutes of 'job' then the REWARD though normally once i have started i can continue it is the transitioning into starting that is the issue)
time: (i have to give myself time to recuperate aswell - i just need to do that. schedule in time where i do nothing at all, simply nothing or sleep/rest)
food/diet: if i can feel my dopamine starting to deplete i will make an effort to top up with omegas/eating fish/vitamins etc. etc. anything that i think may help
sergeant-major: i have to remember that feeling of accomplishment that can help restock the dopamine levels once i have managed to get that thing done/accomplished - and remember how easy it is to get into a negative spiral if i don't get out and do it.

and so on and so forth. it makes me laugh - how difficult it can be for me simply to go and get a pint of milk sometimes!!!! as if i had to overcome a Himalayan mountain - but it is all simply in my head.......

but as long as it works - it's ok. a cold shower at the start of the day often helps too.

poor ADDers - what a life. and poor normals always having to pick up the slack for us 'useless' ones! oh well, i have been yakking on because i decided to "treat" myself to some internet time and now i have even forgotten what i started to talk about at the beginning of this thread oh dear....

oh yes, doing things with rewards/pressure: i have a meeting on Monday already where i simply HAVEN'T done what i was supposed to do - not enough pressure to ensure i get it done because i know i can wangle out of it with an excuse - not a particularly good excuse but an acceptable enough excuse - whereas if i had a total dragon breathing down my neck, expecting me to have got it done --- then it would be done by now!) what a life. what a stupid life.

well that stupid demon won this time - but i WILL get it done. in fact maybe i will start right now. (aaaarrrrrgggghhh - i can't bear even to start because there is such a mess and i am so much farther back with it than i ought to be i would so much just prefer to ignore it but i guess it will just spiral oh, i feel sick at the thought of just looking at it - can't deal with the shame of having to go back to colleagues re. the project and the anxiety but fine - it has to done, right. might as well face it.)

but you see - what i was trying to say is that by not allowing your son to get awy with his behaviour you are helping HIM defeat a demon that he (inside him) also wants to defeat but doesn't have the strength to do on his own. so you end up having to be a bit like my bank or a traffic warden - not a particularly nice job but worthwhile in the end - that coupled with bucket loads of praise works well for me, but as i said above each individual should really work out his or her own things that work for them. i kinda work on an LCD (lowest common denominator) - ie i will often do things with absolutely the most minimal amount, just enough to scrape by, and NO MORE. i think that is because i try to save a lot of my energy for balancing out my brain chemicals - but who knows.

well a long extended mumble - just ignore - it's not really anything connected with your son really except i recognise that trait! and by the sounds of it he is 10,000 times worse than i ever was with my ADD (inattentive).

but good luck with your son!

and good luck without the meds. how brave you are! i salute you....... i am also unmedicated and glad i wasn't medicated but i DO wish i had known i was ADD when i was younger - i think that would have helped a LOT.

chjones39497.3456828704

Another Day!!! Without ADHD meds. I think I need the meds today!! Jon slept well but would not eat protein for breakfast. He wanted 'cereal' and even though the cereal is sweetened with honey he needed the protein. I am choosing my fights so he had cereal for breakfast as I drive them to school and did not want to be late.

Jon is accumulating merit losses at school for not bringing in his homework. He does some but if it is not all finished he gets the merit loss. At this point, I am also not worried about them as I hope to catch him up in the summer and then homeschool.

I have ordered some books on behavior and the ADHD child and teaching the ADHD child. I hope they offer some substantial information that will help me. Jon came home acting as though he was 'sugared' out...bouncing off the walls. I am wondering if it a result of too little protein today. He destroyed his room- clothes and books everywhere and went running out of the house to play although it was not time to play.

When I don't get excited about his behavior he seems to calm down. So, I am trying to mellow as he streaks up and down the restaurants, stores and elsewhere. When people tell me I need to have more control over my child I thank them for their concern and that if they know of a method to help they could become millionaires overnight.

I did give Jon 1/2 a clonidine hoping he will calm down somewhat in order to go to bed by 8pm.

Does he have an IEP or 504? IF not he needs an eval and an accomodation plan. Private schools do not have 504's or IEP's and the public schools here are very poor in accommodating special needs children.[QUOTE=randyjim]

I am just curious as to what meds/dosages he was on?

Hang in there :)

He hasn't been evaluated for sensory processing disorder although the psychiatrist said he believes that this is what he has based on the fact that the meds didn't work and that he was preemie. I did order a book on sensory integration but it has not arrived yet.

I just finished boiling eggs and I will give him one in the morning. I am cringing wondering what the day will be like.

He is asleep under the blanket and I will see if he liked it in the morning.

Jon never was on two stimulants at a time. He started with 20mg of AdderalXR moved up to 30mg was switched to focalin then di(something or other) then strattera, then focalin, then concerta, adderalXR and Adderal quick acting, then Vyvance 50mg, then adderalXR 50mg along with Clonidine. At one time he was taking up to 5 Clonidine per day with the stimulants.

Now he is on just clonidine 1/2 tab in the morning and one tablet at night. The doctor is using it for its sedative effects.

Jon was at his worst today. He had field day at school and any change overstimulates him. He wuold not keep his hands or feet off other children and was calling children names. His teacher was very upset about it. He was also very destructive at home and disrespectful. His weighted blanket came and we finally got him to sleep. I think he is feeling miserable. I am going to see how he does this weekend and call his doctor on Monday and perhaps raise the clonidine and add 1/2 tab in the afternoon.

There are several things that have been different in the last few days: first he has been on less protein and more sugar, secondly I have not been giving him calcium with magnesium and 5-HTP at night..

If anyone has any suggestions please let me know. I need help to get him through the weekend, poor boy.

I wish I did have some other advice for you. Poor little guy. I'm just throwing suggestions/questions:

Has he been evaluated for Sensory Processing Disorder? (I'm inclined to guess that you have, but don't recall you mentioning it) If not, have you read the book, "The Out of Synch Child" ? There is a companion book called "The Out of Synch Child Has Fun" it has activities and techniques to help with SPD.

Have you ever heard of Brain Gym? This is something i'm looking into for my son.

I hope the blanket helps him some, so I look forward to your update about that. I'll be thinking of you both this weekend. Good luck.

I just want to say that I am enjoying reading your updates and hope you will continue posting.

How you've managed to have this much patience is beyond me. I feel as if I have ZERO left.

Jon slept through the entire night without waking up. When I went into his bedroom this morning he was asleep with a smile on his face.

That changed when it was time to go to school. Jon is still very impulsive and hyper- is it possible for the candy he ate to still be affecting him? When I picked him up from school he was still acting strange (ADHD+++) and he wasn't cooperative for the first time with Dr.Rob (the chiropractor). Dr. Rob said it will take about a week for the effects of the candy to wear off and talked to Jon about whether eating the candy was worth him feeling the way he was. Jon was very unhappy with himself and earned some restrictions (no playing outside for the day).

It was an effort to get him in his room for bedtime but he was asleep in less than five minutes.

It really hurt me to see Jon so out of control today. I don't know what the answer is but I know that the meds he was taking are not the answer. I don't think I could survive him running after his brother and sister throwing exacto knives at them again like he did when he was on Vyvance or biting himself and rocking back and forth wailing when he was on AdderallXR. At least he doesn't do that anymore but today he let out some really high pitched laughs that were like chalk screetching on a board.

Sometimes I wonder what will happen in a few years when he is taller and stronger than I am. I am hoping the behavioral psychologist will help.

I'm not at all saying to put him back on meds, but I am curious about his meds history. He has been on alot of stuff for sure. And your memory might have them all blend together, but I'm did all the med changes overlap eachother? We just have Strattera a try and we were weaning him from Concerta at the same time. Could combinations of meds brought on some of those terrifying behaviors your son experience?

I was also wondering if you ever considered Tenex instead of Clonidine. It is made from Clonidine but has a longer half life and is far less sedatative. The only reason I ask is it seems that you are still using Clonidine to help him, mabe this would be another option.

I still think what you are doing is great, and recently we took DS of meds for a week (not exactly planned but that's another story) . It was just awful. It was the most awful for him so we went back. I am very impressed by your determination and commitment to help your son.

Today I hit the wall (if that is the expression). Jon slept all night but complained his blanket was heavy this morning. And that was by far the best part of the morning. He was a wild boy! He threw a screwdriver at his brother, terrorized his sister, and absolutely did not respond to time outs or my attempts to divert his attention. He was a tyrant with a temper. I finally had to tell my 6 & 9 y/o to go in their rooms and lock their doors. Nothing worked and his behavior progressively deteriorated with screaming ranting raving and all out attacks. I broke out in hives and when couldn't breathe so I went out to my car to get something out of the trunk and the trunk lid fell down on my head. It hurt but it knocked me out of my dithering. Jon told me he wanted medicine and that really tore me.

I decided to use his Vyvance because, although he went psychotic on it, it is not a stimulant. I opened the capsule and threw away a little less than half of the 50mg's. Jon took it readily and then went into his room and fell asleep for half an hour. During this time I was on the phone with my sister for support because I felt like a total failure in not keeping him off medication. I am going to leave a message with both his psychiatrist and neurologist.

When Jon woke up he was a different child. Obedient, not hyper or violent. He wanted to help me in the kitchen to clean up. He also told me he felt dizzy. The dizzyness continued for two hours but now, at 2:04pm he seems like a 'normal' child. And I can breathe again but it seems as though we parents are always waiting for the other shoe to drop (something to happen). Jon ate lunch nicely with no arguments, remembered manners, has been gentle. He told me he feels 'in control' (yes, he used those words).

So- I don't know how to proceed from here. Not give him meds until he needs them? If I hadn't done anything today I would have ended up a loonytune. Unfortunately, my husband is working this weekend and so I am not able to have him here to help me during the daytime. Just talking about the situation in our home this morning has me breaking out in sweats.

It is so pleasent to sit here and not listen to screaming. My other children are at birthday parties and Jon is entertaining himself by reading books.

I really think you should start from scratch. I would not just randomly give Vyvanse and guess at the dose by dumpiing some out. Vyvanse IS a stimulant by the way. It is absorbed differently than traditional Adderall, but is still a stimulant. I know you prefer to NOT use meds and I commend that. I have been following your threads though and just hope you can also try to keep an open mind and think about if this is truly the best thing for all of you. Is his diagnosis solid? Are there other things going on besides ADHD? This is why I say maybe start from scratch. He's hurting and so are all of you, I hope you can sort through all of this and make the best choice for your son and your family.

Jon went through a crying period for about an hour at 2:30pm-3:30pm but he has been great for the rest of the day. No screaming, no aggression, just a nice boy.

I did not give him his clonidine this evening because of the Vyvance. I gave him the smaller dose because it comes in 30mg and 50mg and the 50mg was too strong last time. As far as not giving him anything, if he could have been contained in a safe and soundproof environment it would have been possible. But when an 8 y/o tells you he needs medication then I take it seriously. I believe that by keeping a log of what he is given and his reactions throughout the day, this will help his doctors. It is certainly helping us.

[QUOTE=randyjim]I decided to use his Vyvance because, although he went psychotic on it, it is not a stimulant. [/QUOTE] I have tried reading all of the post here and I am puzzled about several things but I will not address them because I do not know your whole situation. One thing I do want to say is that VyVanse IS in fact a stimulant. It is along the same lines as Adderol. My son is on VyVanse50mg and has been for 1 month. He was on 30mg prior to this and after all of his testing the psycologist has recommended that his dosage be uped.

One difference between my son and yours is that mine is gifted. He has not had the problems you seem to be having with your son. He only needs the meds to be able to focus at school so he can learn.

One thing that really bothers me about parents medicating their children for ADHD is that ALOT of them tend to give them the medicine as a 'Behavior Modifier' and that is not the purpose of these medications. Believe me I was dead set AGAINST medicating my son until I realized that my own fears(the stigma that goes with this) were gonna cause him to miss out. When he went through the formal testing for the ADHD diagnosis, the doctor also did an intelligence test on him in which he scored in the 93rd percentile. My son is very smart but had I not went ahead and gave in and took him to the doctor when I did, he would have not been accepted into the gifted program at his school and quite possibly would have been kicked out of school. (He is in the 1st grade) Now because of the meds he is able to focus and put forth his best effort and he is making straight A's and his teachers enjoy him now because they are now getting to know what a great kid he really is.

I am checking in with Jon's psychiatrist first thing in the morning. Jon continues to behave extremely erratically and very aggressively. He did well in Sunday school but before then he was jumping on our glass-topped bistro table while I was in the restroom. Unfortunately, the glass tipped and Jon and the glass hit the tiled floor. Fortunately, the heavy glass did not break although the tile chipped and I am so thankful Jon did not get hurt.

Jon is in time out right now (after dinner) and screaming his head off. He is saying pretty hateful things.

As far as using the medication as a behavioral device- yes, if that is what it takes to keep my son and other children safe I will use it as such. Of course, I do not prescribe medication nor do I use it without notifying his doctor. Perhaps the doctor will have some answers tomorrow for us.

Every child is different and ADHD takes many forms as far as a child's behavior. What is so difficult is that even those parents with ADHD children tend to compare their children with others. In turn, this can make parents feel like failures. I do not feel like a failure; I am sure that Jon is doing much better here than he would elsewhere and I truly have much more stamina and determination than average.

Jon is still keeping to his organic and healthy diet and his sleep is better. He has gained weight in the last month. His schoolwork is worse and his teacher is having problems with his behavior. For most of us with children with ADHD we just need to take it one day at a time.

[QUOTE=randyjim]

Jon is in time out right now (after dinner) and screaming his head off. He is saying pretty hateful things.

For most of us with children with ADHD we just need to take it one day at a time.

[/QUOTE]

I absolutely agree with this (above!!!!) And I think that to compare your son to someone else's "gifted" son is rude. ADHD does take on many forms and nobody's ADHD child is the same.

First of let me applaud you for taking such a brave and difficult step. You little boy seems to be doing very well without his meds.

I'm glad to hear that he's eating and sleeping well. Like the other forum members I'd love to know how your little boy is doing so please continue to post and keep us updated on his progress.
[QUOTE=MondiH831]

I absolutely agree with this (above!!!!) And I think that to compare your son to someone else's "gifted" son is rude. ADHD does take on many forms and nobody's ADHD child is the same.

[/QUOTE] I was not comparing our children, I simply pointed out a big difference between our children. I was not intending on being rude and most of my post was not directed at the other mother I was speaking to. The only thing that was directed to her was the fact that VyVanse is in fact a stimulant. The rest of it was a general statement not to anyone specific.

I thought this site might interest you. This mom of an ADHD child also decided to not go the medication route and homeschooled her child. If you poke around the site you'll see that she has also written a book about teaching techniques and funny stories in teaching her ADHD child. The book has a handful of reviews on AMAZON but they are all positive. Anyway, take a look and I hope this might provide you some more support in your efforts:

http://sizzlebop.com/

I think you are a brave, wonderful and caring mom! You should never think of yourself as a failure (although I am sure a lot of us here have felt that in one way or another sometime, I know I do). You're doing what you feel best is best your son and your family. Like someone else said, you will still be a wonderful mother even Jon goes back on meds. Don't forget that!

I hope that the psychiatrist is able to figure out if there is anything else that may be wrong. Just out of curiosity, have you ever suspected him to be bi-polar?

Keep up the good work. You're an inspiration and a good true example of "enduring to the end."

All of this is so hard, and I hate that there isn't a blood test so parents can make more informed decisions. Its all try this, try that, this worked for a little while, this was just awful. Its so draining for the child and the rest of the family. I think the fact that you're listening to your child's request is important. Maybe Jon needs meds daily again, maybe not, but he being actively involved in this experience has alot of value. He's still just 8 y/o and can't make final decisions for himself but he will learn more about his needs and limits through this process....even though it stinks. If you are able to find a way to keep him unmedicated while he is still able to function socially and academically that is the best way to go. It may turn out that he may need medication. I think what you have working for you is that the school year is almost over and you'll have a the summer to really investigate more. Its awful that the school seems so unsupportive, and it being private I have no idea what to say. Are the requirements for support different for private schools or does IDEA follow suit there as well?

Please try to stay upbeat....believe me I know how gut wrenching this all is.

As always I wish you luck and your family happiness.

Hi,

Randyjim, you are going a great job. I applaud you on many fronts but probably the most inspiring is your willingness to be open and explore all possibilities for your son. If you close your mind, you really close windows of opportunity for success. I really wish I had the answer for you because you deserve a breakthrough in his treatment.

I have to disagree with the poster who implied that ADHD meds should not be used for behavior modifications. These meds are not used just for focus issues but also behavior modifications (for some children) because their behavior gets in the way of the social, emotional and academic success. For some children, the stimulants let them focus which allows their mind to slow down, allows them to "read" social cues, express their thoughts and emotions, and view the world with a quiet mind. All this allows much better social interactions which boosts their self esteem. It's all so important. However, the stimulants are not for every child and the side effects can be terrible.

ADHD children are not the same. The methods for treating ADHD are not the same either. It was difficult for us at the beginning because we saw how wonderful the stimulants were for his school success but the home life was a wreck with rebound issues. We finally (I hope) have found a stimulant that drastically reduced the rebound and our family is much better. We are never going to be a Leave it to Beaver family but probably if we peeked into most families no one really is either.

Good luck.

Hello everyone. I reached a place where no matter what Jon did I felt OK and that I was not a failure as a mother.

I spoke to the psychiatrist today and he told me to hold off on stimulants and Vyvanse and to up Jon's clonidine to 1 1/2 tabs in the morning, 1/2 at 3pm and 1/2 at bedtime and see what happens.

Jon was off the wall this morning again, telling his brother and sister "I hate you" over and over, saying it to me and throwing things at me while I was driving the children to school. Yes- I sent him to school. When I picked Jon up from school this afternoon his whole attitude had changed: he was polite, he had won a pencil sharpener for behaving in class. On the way home he started throwing a tantrum and I pulled into a parking lot and told him he was in time out until he controlled himself; which he did quickly. Things are calm again.

Thank you for all your support- I don't think this would have been possible without the forum to encourage me.

I am concerned he has an underlying disorder but I will let the psych and behav psycol work on that. Right now I am just enjoying being 'mom' and not 'jailer' again.

Hi Randyjim,

I too applaud you and your efforts to help Jon. You know what? You are a fabulous mom....NOT a failure. And you know what else? Even if it is determined Jon needs to eventually go back on stimulant meds..... you will STILL be a fabulous mom!! Your dedication to sort this out and help your baby is a model for everyone on this board......regardless of whether they are pro med or not. Just from some of the snippets you've posted about some of Jon's more problematic behaviors.....I am impressed at your insight and patience in responding to him. Our kids are SO smart......many of their tantrums are sheer manipulations to get what they want. Just like the instance where you mention Jon started throwing a fit and you pulled the car over and halted everything until he calmed down. Great response. And as far as comparing our ADHD kids...... our situations are all unique...just like our ADHD kids. What works for one....doesn't for another.. both behavioral approaches and meds. It's nice to get ideas from what others are trying......but we have to remember that it will be a total crapshoot whether or not it will work.

Keep up the good work. Hang in there. Okiemom

Today is a very bad day for Jon. He locked a boy in the bathroom in school this morning, lifted his fist to other children in his class for perceived or real taunts and spit at another child. I have calls into the psychiatrist and behavioral psychologist.

This is the oppositional defiant disorder ......making him act this way...and the behavorial therapy will help with a lot of this....This is the hardest part trying to get him to understand you will not tolerate this kind of behavior....

It took 2 years for us to see a difference in Emily...yes it will work....for she was very defiant and had no control over her actions at all...

consistancy is the key to sucess ...

One thing we did thou, when she got into trouble at school was...one

favorite thing was taken out of her room...ex. CD's or radio ..she had to earn

a good report. ( We'd say when you start getting good reports you'll get your items back)... a week to get them back...sometimes a day or two...

next time...something else would come out of the room....Half of her items were taken out

before she got the idea not to get into trouble at school....All of this

was done mutiple times....

Once she was able to start controlling behavior we worked on grades

and school work....

For us we tried to tackle one problem at a time....

I don't mind- I will pull him out and finish the year with him being homeschooled- but to tell the truth, sometimes I feel like a jailor rather than a mother. What can I do so he can function in a setting other than home? He can be so sweet one hour and then, the least provication, he gets set off again.

I wish I could find a cure for every child out there with ADHD. They are suffering as well as the parents. One thing- Jon lies when asked what happened. But I think he believes it is the 'bad' Jon that does the 'bad' stuff and he wants to be the good Jon. Is this possible?

Thank you for the site Twodoodles and also your support and everyone elses support. I had a shock today when I read my son's psychiatrist's evaluation and he said my son IS ADHD and has Oppositional Defiant Disorder. That is not what I understood at the evaluation.

I have purposely not mentioned IQ because in children with ADD and ADHD it is very difficult to assess an IQ that is valid. The Kaufman Assessment Battery for Children seems to be a wonderful tool for school learning assessment and IQ plus it differentiates between simultaneous and sequential learning and a significant difference in the two can help pinpoint problem areas and lead to remediation for these areas. In addition, the test was normed on standard school populations.

Anyway, today the teacher came out to tell my husband and myself that Jon had a merit loss for hiding in the bathroom with another student when they were supposed to be in line for dismissal. Jon realizes that he did something wrong but his actions (smiling and laughing about it) belied his telling us he know he did wrong. However, he agreed to write apologies to his teachers for frightening them.

I gave Jon some Valerian to calm him and it seemed to have worked. He has been more pliable and calm today.

Whether or not he is bi-polar, I don't know, however he was not diagnosed with it. I did read that giving ADHD children who also were bi-polar meds for just the ADHD would backfire: the bi-polar needs to be treated first.

I can't wait to homeschool. We will have a rocking time!!! Jon will NOT be going back on stimulant medication. We are still going to try to work with him without ADHD meds; just clonidine.

Jon was pretty good this morning after I made breakfast for him and gave him his vitamins. Of course, he woke me at 1am telling me he was freezing and hanging onto me all night. My husband is understandably upset that this is ongoing so I can't wait to get the weighted blanket.

We took the children on the boat this morning and all was well. Jon enjoyed the feel of the wind in his hair and was doing great until we developed engine trouble and had to turn around to go back without fishing. I think the disappointment was too great for him and he became extremely whiney and mean to his sister and brother and to me. I gave him some Calming Camomile which took the edge off for all of 15 minutes. We tried fishing on the dock when we got back and he hooked his sister deliberately by accident.

On the way home in the car he was screaming that his stomach hurt and he needed to eat. He did not stop for more than 3 minutes at a time. At home, he ate a burger (plain), some corn chips and dip and went out to play for a little while. We only had to speak to him once for chasing his sister and being inappropriate. We went out for dinner and halfway through the meal he went hyper and ballistic with his voice raised and bothering other diners. I put him in time out next to me and we left shortly after that (after he calmed down).

When we got home he took a shower and changed. He is a little loud but not too hyper and not aggressive. I will say that something in the restaurant did not agree with him because he started sneezing and coughing and his nose started running. Actually, his behavior was OK until then. I am giving him a benedryl for the allergy and he will go to bed at 8:30.

All in all a challenging day but still better then when he was on medication.

Thank you everyone for your support. The psychiatrist said we still have a long road ahead of us.

To Newmom: nothing was ever done without his neurologists knowing about it. He is not randomly getting medication- he was on planned med schedules that were changed according to 'need'.

If you finish reading the postings you will get answers to all your questions more in depth than in this post but I will try to answer them in an abbreviated way.

My husband and I sit with our children to do homework. Jon has, many times, refused to sit and do homework and no matter what you say or do- if a child refuses to do homework then it does not get done. His specialist tried many different meds for Jon at DIFFERENT times. The meds left him like a zombie or climbing the walls. I honestly feel that he should have had another complete evaluation when the strategum of medicate did not work. The meds cost a fortune and even with insurance we were paying several hundred dollars and more per month on meds and doctor bills.

Jon and I have an appointment with a behavioral psychologist on Monday- however what the psychiatrist said made a lot of sense to me: jon was very preemie, had preemie 'shakes' which could have been withdrawal or seizures. We were blessed with Jon when he was 22hrs old and therefore do not know his entire history or if what the birth mom and dad put down is the truth. They were both 15years old.

Jon spent the night curled up next to me with the excuse that he was cold. For several hours, everytime I looked at him his eyes were wide open looking at me. I finally held him and rubbed his back and he was able to go to sleep at 3:30am. He prayed this morning that God would make him not afraid of the dark.

I am going to get him a very soft blanket to soothe him when he goes to sleep. Since he is very hyper to tactile stimulation this may help. It also may explain why he goes through 6-7 sets of clothes per day to wear.

I believe that today was the day I thought would never happen. Today, Jon was even tempered and reasonable and listened when we talked to him. He is getting his vitamins and 1/2 clonidine in the morning and 1 clonidine at night.

He needed two time outs and sat quietly until we told him he could play. He is eating very well and asks for healthy snacks. We mix a little olive oil with basalmic vinegar and give him raw veges to dip in it. He did not eat veges before.

Jon's room is a mess and for now I am leaving it. I figure he will get tired of it after a while and want help in cleaning it up. He is taking showers/bathing without putting up a fuss and is taking care of his appearance.

It has been three weeks without meds today!! I am a little nervous about tomorrow because we are going on a boat for a treat with the children and new situations always set Jon off. He will be wearing a life vest at all times and we may try to fish.......

Jon still has a lot of moments where he acts/speaks without thinking but they are coming further apart. He did ask me if I could keep my bedroom door open tonight. He still comes in my bedroom in the middle of the night to be reassured.

As I was reading this thread and I only got to page 3 - a few questions came to me.

1. Why are you randomly giving him a medication. Is it for instant relief of his behavior? Has a doctor told you to do that?
2. Is anyone working with him when he is doing his homework? I am close to my son when he does his homework and I have to remind him to finish almost every day. I wouldn't allow him to do his homework on his own and give him that much responsibility to remember to finish all of it and turn it in. It would never be finished, correct or turned in if I allowed him to do it on his own. Some days are better than others but on the whole he doesn't have the need nor desire yet to complete his work - at age 8.
3. If I read correctly your son was on a bunch of different meds - were they all at once? or you tried different things over time?
4. Did a doctor tell you to stop the meds? Has a doctor seen him since med removal?
5. Have you developed a behavior modification plan for him to follow everyday?

I hope I don't sound preachy and I know it is hard to write every detail on these posts...but I was just curious b/c we just started our child on Concerta and I am interested in everyone's experience.

Thanks

Wow! This is why this forum is so wonderful!! I just ordered a 10 lb blanket for Jon. I hope it comes fast so he can use it quickly. I got a twin size- if it seems to work I would like to try a weighted vest. Does anyone have experience with these?

I try never to look at anyone as judgemental. It is enough that our children are judged all the time against what the 'norm' is thought of. I will say that I am so shocked to say I think I also saw Jon as not normal and treated him with kid gloves ie differently than my other children. Now that he may be just neurologically underdeveloped I am looking at him in a different way. Does this make sense to anyone?

Jon was very aggressive to his brother this afternoon and misbehaved at the chiropractor's office. He ran the other way outside when it was time to leave so I got in the car with the other children, turned the car on and turned it around. I saw Jon and opened the window and asked if he was coming home with us. He ran and got into the car and asked if I was going to leave him. I told him I would never leave him but i wasn't going to run after him, either. He was a little hyper in the car so I massaged his scalp at a red light and he turned into a little pussy cat. I continued to do this at red lights and his behavior improved dramatically.

It will be a long process and I am jumping into it with everything I have!!

[QUOTE=randyjim]

I would like to try a weighted vest. Does anyone have experience with these?

[/QUOTE]

My son age 5 (pdd-nos) uses this at school for about 20 minutes every third day. It was suggested by the OT. It is 10% of his body weight. They were hoping it would improve his focus and reduce his tics and fidgeting. I don't think they are seeing results. He does respond REALLY well to heavy resistence type, large motor excersices- We do the wheelbarrow - (hold him by his feet and he walks on his hands), downward dog yoga pose, and using the tramoline- spending just 5 minutes doing these activities will have my son more focussed for around an hour. It was his great response to these that led the OT to suggest the vest- OT says it should be used sparingly- because she says if they get used to wearing it- they may become wildly energetic when it comes off.

I have been reading all your posts. It is an amazing journey that you are sharing. When my son was in early intervention they used the weighted vests and he liked them. The teachers told me to let him do heavy (not extremely heavy) lifting. Like carry the gallon of milk or something like that. It helps center them. I don't have a weighted blanket but he has a thick comforter that he likes.RandyJim, the thought of him snuggled up with you in bed wide awake brings tears to my eyes. They are so vulnerable and scared! (a hard fact to remember when they're sending you over the edge!) Have you thought of a weighted blanket to help him sleep? Especially with his tactile preferences, maybe the weight would make him feel more safe. This is the best place I've found: http://www.weightedblanket.net/ and she sells on ebay also.I just got a weighted blanket from this site and my DS LOVES it. He actually said that the blanket "presses down and snuggles me and make me feel sleepy faster". They are well made and we love it. Thanks for your response - I again hope I wasn't sounding judgemental with my questions.
Also, I have 2 adopted children from the foster care system. A 6 year old girl and her 8 year old brother. My son is ADHD & ODD and I know the frustration, exhaustion, etc....

good luck with everything

I am HAPPY!!! After reviewing all the meds that Jon took over the years and the rebound and getting used to them so fast, his behaviors, all his history, and interviews with me again and with Jon; the psychiatrist stated that Jon should not be on stimulant medication. He does have irritibiliry, anger, aggressiveness, hyperness but he is 'charming' and very intelligent and should be able to learn to control a lot of his emotions.

He told me that Jon is to continue on just clonidine and he also suggested I buy a book called 1-2-3 Magic by Thomas W. Phelan, Ph.D. on discipline.

I am going to continue with the eating pattern (Jon has gained 6 lbs in the nearly three weeks and he has a great appetite. He also told me that Jon is very sensitive to tactile sensory stimuli and also very reactive to environmental stimuli. Plus, since Jon was so preemie he may still have slight neurological process problems and may have some learning disabilities.

It is still going to be a struggle but I am so glad I trusted my 'gut' feelings with Jon. I am supposed to give him 1/2 clonidine in the morning and 1 at 7:30pm and call in 10 days when we will raise it to 1/2 + 1/2 + 1.

Now to let the school know.......

That is wonderful news!! Good for you for advocating for your son.

Do you have an IEP for your son at the school? They have to evaluate him and provide him with one. See these websites for more info: http://www.wrightslaw.com/ , http://idea.ed.gov/explore/home

I know it is so frustrating to have your child constantly watched and picked at all day. I volunteer one day every week so I see all the other kids are doing stuff too. It seems like your school could be doing more for him.

Jon goes to a private school on a Florida Pride Scholarship. There are no IEP's in private school that I know of which is why I am homeschooling at the end of this school year.

Jon is still having trouble sleeping, he is wandering around the kitchen telling me he can't sleep. I did not give him 1/2 clonidine this evening so I will give it to him now.

I wonder the stimulants were only part of his sleep issues. Let us know how you make out at the psychiatirist.

here is Wikpedias description of PICA

Pica is an appetite for non-nutritive substances (e.g., coal, soil, feces, chalk, paper etc.) or an abnormal appetite for some things that may be considered foods, such as food ingredients (e.g., flour, raw potato, starch).[1] In order for these actions to be considered pica, they must persist for more than one month, at an age where eating such objects is considered developmentally inappropriate. The condition's name comes from the Latin word for the magpie, a bird which is reputed to eat almost anything. Pica is seen in all ages, particularly in pregnant women and small children, especially among children who are developmentally disabled, where it is the most common eating disorder.

Pica in children, while common, can be dangerous. Children eating painted plaster containing lead may suffer brain damage from lead poisoning. There is a similar risk from eating dirt near roads that existed prior to the phaseout of tetra-ethyl lead in gasoline or prior to the cessation of the use of contaminated oil (either used, or containing toxic PCBs or dioxin) to settle dust. In addition to poisoning, there is also a much greater risk of gastro-intestinal obstruction or tearing in the stomach. This is also true in animals. Another risk of dirt eating is the possible ingestion of animal feces and the accompanying parasites.

is that he is eating things like lint, threads out of the carpet, plastic. This afternoon he was licking the bottom of his shoes.

This immediately made me think of when I was pregnant and the doctor would ask- "Do you have the urge to eat dirt, clay, earth substances or laundry soap" Because I guess in pregnancy some form of mineral deficiency can occur. I am sure the first thought was that this was a compulsive behavior- but make sure the doctor looks at both possible angles (psychological vs. psysiological)

Good luck- wishing your family a good day!

also regarding the putting strange things in his mouth: It could also be a sensory seeking behavior. When my son (adhd -with no other conditions) was little couldn't resist licking glass- drinking glasses, window glass... Just had an urge to feel that smooth feeling on his tongue. That behavior has been curbed a great deal- almost completely stopped doing it by 1st grade- but I know he still has a bit of a compulsion toward licking glass- I catch him doing it a little with him drinking glass still- he is in 5th grade now. I don't say anything to him about it since it is harmless and infrequent.

KidsInSpace39505.362962963

We had some great breakthroughs today. Jon is usually a behavior problem when we go anywhere. Today we let him hold and play a gameboy in the car and while we were out. He was great! He did mean mouth me once but told me he thought I was his brother. I really didn't buy it however he apologized and has been nice to me since.

He volunteered to do his spelling homework and copied out his list- unfortunately, it was last weeks list so he still has the homework to do.

Tomorrow we go to the behavioral psychologist which I am looking forward to.

I keep waiting for something to happen- when jon was on medication we walked around holding our breath all the time.

I would not give the Coloidal Silver, it is harmful to good gut bacteria, and can be toxic to enzymes. It also causes argyria. It is banned in the US.

I would also watch any herbals very closely, they can have adverse reactions, very quickly and very severely.

edbson39492.8027199074

Today is the 6th day Jon is off medications. I cut his clonidine to 1/2 tab in the AM and 1/2 in the PM. This Saturday I will only give 1/2 tab in the AM and Wednesday will stop altogether.

Jon is still doing well in school behaviourally. I am careful to watch his eating and not have ANYTHING in the house that has preservatives, food coloring or high fructose corn syrup. The only sugars he is getting is in fruits. He is not getting any fruit juice, however. I threw out and gave away about 250 lbs of junk food.

His behavior at home and in the car has its ups and downs but he is no longer screaming for hours. He did start to repeat a sentence so I told him to say it 10 x's very fast and he gave up after about 7. We were laughing by then. He is saying some bad words and is hitting back- not starting- with his 9 y/o brother and 6 y/o sister but to tell you the truth I think this is normal for any three children stuffed into the back of a tiny car.

He is eating VERY well- all healthy foods and he is getting calcium-mag-glucosimine supplements, omegas, colloidal silver, good bacteria, and vitamins. I bought something from Glenn Burkett called Mellow and it is herbal and calms him down and he is asleep at 8pm tonight. He also gets 5-HTP.

He played outside with children from the neighborhood and did not get into a fight with them for the first time in months. Plus- he listened when we told him to come in and take a shower. I am thanking God and all the people and family praying for himand us!!

Try adding Omega 3 Omega 6, Omega 9 Essential Fatty Oils, either by liquid or pill to spplement his "brain food" Check the Internet to see the products and dosage.

I just read your thread and plan to follow your progress, so please continue to post :) I wish you luck, and I'm glad your little guy is sleeping and eating better! I'm wishing you great success!

Today was Jon's first week off meds. He is continuing to sleep really well. He is not organized and not doing his homework, however he is in school from 8am to 3pm and then at the chiropractor until 4pm. We do not get home until 5pm so there is not much time to do much.

Jon came home today with two merit losses from school- one for three homework misses and one for not paying attention to the teacher. I am letting these ride because his private school is not making any concessions for his ADHD. I have decided (about 90%) to home school the children next year. This way he can learn at his own pace and so can the other children.

He is still verbalizing bad words and some middle finger actions at home. I told him this morning that it was pretty silly to just use the same fingers and words and how about singing a praise song which he did. So he is pretty easily redirected. I did NOT give him a clondidine this morning so I am just quitting it entirely. I will give him the Mellow this evening. His eating is very good- eggs for breakfast and toast. I have hardboiled eggs in the refrige in case they are hungry and learned that Boar's Head has some cold cuts and cheeses without any preservatives and food coloring that are passed by the Feingold Diet.

We are so happy that we took him off his medications. I know we will have to work on his organization and redirecting his negative behavior. One plus- today was the first time I went to the post office with my children and there was no screaming and running everywhere!

Jon hid a piece of candy from his Valentine pary at school. He was very defiant this morning and was, at one point, running around screaming. He ran around the table and would not let me help him for a few minutes. I told him I loved him and needed to kiss his nose for a minute. That stopped him and I held him and gave him his Omegas, multi vitamins, and the Mellow. I did not give him his clonidine.

He has been a bit irritable but my husband and I were able to redirect him with rewards- from pumpkin seeds to sitting and throwing acorns with him. Our 6 year old daughter stated we needed to put him back on his meds but we told her this is a family challenge and we would not. Perhaps he was testing because after we said that he quieted down.

We took the children to a park and he was good and had a great time with his brother and sister but when we walked into town he started picking up rocks and we had to ask him (and brother/sister ) to give them to us. He was wonderful on the trip home.

They are all playing outside now. I do need to say I packed our lunches so we wouldn't have to buy any food in a restaurant. So far it has been a great day except this morning but we agree that we will NOT put him back on the meds.

We also talked more about homeschooling. If we can work on our internet business and maybe sell some things on eBay I think we can pay the bills on my husband's salary (which isn't very high).

The children decided to name the 'school' Jesus' Christian Warriors and our uniforms will be cream and red.

I am really going to have to try not to give him a clonidine this evening. I know if I five it to him he will fall asleep fast but we can not rely on meds because it is easier.

If he was tkaing 1/2 twice a day,then he needs 1/4 twice a day for a little while, a day or so at least.